Bharat Rakshak

Russian reiteration on ENR..
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

“The decision to strengthen ‘sensitive’ nuclear export controls adopted at an NSG plenary session in 2011 does not affect in any way the September 2008 decision of the Group to unfreeze peaceful nuclear cooperation with India,”

Seems the message on "no reactor if no ENR" has gone through!

Well it seems money talks and bul$hit walks. Now that the Russians have knuckled under the French will have to play ball. Do you think GE/Westinghouse will allow the non-proliferation ayatollahs in the US to dictate policy on this issue? If the the US is indeed that stupid it would be their loss and French/Russian gain. While the wolves fight over scraps of meat we are in the driver's seat.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... story.html
U.S.-India nuclear deal drifts dangerously

NEW DELHI — Hailed as the centerpiece of a new partnership between the world’s two most populous democracies, the U.S.-India nuclear deal has drifted dangerously since it was signed in 2008, analysts and former negotiators from both countries say.The risk now is that other countries, particularly Russia and France, might benefit from all the hard work that the United States put into the deal. Despite India’s intention to join an international treaty that would restrict liability claims on suppliers, U.S. companies and their insurers are worried that Indian law would still take precedent, and corporate officials are adamant that the law needs to be changed before they could do business here. The question is whether Singh, now on the defensive over corruption charges, can amend that legislation.So while General Electric and U.S.-based, Japanese-owned Westinghouse Electric sit on the sidelines, France’s Areva and Russia’s Rosatom are already moving ahead in inking deals to build reactors in India. “The American things are moving slow,” said Anil Kakodkar, former chairman of India’s Atomic Energy Commission, and a key negotiator of the nuclear agreement. “But it is not India’s fault. We have done everything we are supposed to do.”
A lopsided relationship
In a sense, the stalling of the nuclear deal is indicative of a broader problem with the U.S.-India relationship, Burns and other U.S. analysts said, with Washington making most of the concessions and India seeming less engaged.And before India can buy American and French reactors, New Delhi also has to sign a nuclear cooperation agreement with Japan. Those reactors use parts and technology from Japan, which cannot be supplied until Japan changes its law to allow nuclear trade with India.Kakodkar called the latest NSG decision a “betrayal” and a huge setback to nuclear commerce. “The world needs to understand our sensitivities,” Kakodkar said. “We cannot be made a pariah all over again.”

tejas wrote:Well it seems money talks and bul$hit walks. Now that the Russians have knuckled under the French will have to play ball. Do you think GE/Westinghouse will allow the non-proliferation ayatollahs in the US to dictate policy on this issue? If the the US is indeed that stupid it would be their loss and French/Russian gain. While the wolves fight over scraps of meat we are in the driver's seat.

The French already have - refer to the earlier article referenced....After all, Jaitapur is apparently on home stretch

Sen_K wrote:China red flags India move to join NSG

Criteria is simple. Any country which is a NPT signatory, or is not but has a NSG waiver, can apply for NSG membership.

India's 25th nuclear plant's construction starts on Jul 18.

The construction procedure of India's 25th nuclear power plant will start from Monday, Jul 18 with the first pour of concrete for the 700 MW indigenous Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor (PHWR) at Rawatbhata. The government had given a financial sanction of Rs. 24,000 crores in October 2009 for building four units of 700 MW of PHWRs - two each at Kakrapar and Rawatbhata in Rajasthan.

This will be the seventh nuclear plant at the Rajasthan Atomic Power Station (RAPS), which already has an installed capacity of 1,180 MW from six units - the largest from a single site.

The Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) has designed the 700-MW PHWR by scaling up its 540 MW PHWRs under operation at Tarapur since 2005. The NPCIL is building two 1,000 MW VVER type nuclear power plants at Kudankulam (TamilNadu)and two 700 MW PHWRs at Kakrapar in Gujarat. Unit 1 and 2 at Kudankulam are expected to be operational by August, 2010 and May, 2011 respectively.

The NPCIL currently operates 20 nuclear power plants across six sites and has an installed capacity of 4,780 MW. The excavation work for the Unit 7 at RAPS started on August 19 last year and the NPCIL hopes to start commercial operations by June 2016. The first pour of concrete for Unit 8 at the station is expected later this year.

Both the 700 MW units at Kakrapar are expected to start producing power by 2015 end. With the progressive completion of the Kudankulam reactors and the four 700 MW PHWRs at Kakrapar and Rawatbhata, the installed nuclear power capacity of NPCIL is expected to reach 9,580 MW by 2016.

Uranium Corp gets state's nod for uranium processing.

The state-owned Uranium Corporation of India Limited (UCIL) has received clearance from the Karnataka government for setting up a uranium processing unit at Gogi village in Yadgir district. The UCIL, which started exploration for uranium in this village in 2007, has found rich deposits of high-grade uranium (U235) that is used to generate nuclear power.

The state high-level clearance committee (SHLCC) headed by Karnataka chief minister B S Yeddyurappa recently cleared the company’s application for mining uranium and processing, at an investment of Rs 550 crore.

The deputy commissioner of Yadgir district recently issued the no objection certificate to UCIL. However, the company is yet to be issued mining lease by the government.

“This is just a preliminary approval for their operations. Before starting work to mine the material, they have to complete the environment impact assessment report and seek approval from the ministry of environment and forests (MoEF), Government of India. Only after that will their application for mining lease be processed by the state government,” H R Srinivasa, director, mines and geology, told Business Standard.

The deposits in Gogi are expected to last at least 15 years and the company wants to take up mining at a depth of 65 metres and excavate horizontally over an area of 109 acres, he said.

According to the initial estimates, the company plans to extract 500 tonnes of iron ore per day and recover 1 kg of uranium per tonne, which is double the yield from Kadapa mines in Andhra Pradesh. The UCIL has found a concentration of 400-450 gms in Jharkhand mines.

The company, apart from Gogi village, has also found rich deposits of uranium in Dharwad and Belgaum districts.

In Dharwad, the company has found uranium deposits in the shape of a bar, and are richer than the Gogi village, and the UCIL is likely to take up open cast mining, Srinivasa said.

He also allayed fears of the farmers in Gogi village that radiation levels in and around the uranium deposits are within the prescribed limits of the International Radiation Commission (IRC).

The uranium ore mining by UCIL is likely to yield royalty in excess of Rs 400 crore per annum for the department of mines and geology, he said.

However, the residents of Gogi village have raised serious doubts over the safety of conducting uranium mining in their village. During the public hearing conducted by Karnataka State Pollution Control Board on November 16, 2010, residents of Gogi and four nearby villages had raised objections for carrying out mining.

The UCIL has in its Environment Impact Assessment and Environmental Management Plan submitted to the Karnataka State Pollution Control Board recently, said an Environment Engineering Cell, comprising officials of both the UCIL and BARC, will be constituted at the project site to implement various mitigation measures.

X-posting form the International nuke thread.

Clicky

Vipul wrote:Uranium Corp gets state's nod for uranium processing.

The state-owned Uranium Corporation of India Limited (UCIL) has received clearance from the Karnataka government for setting up a uranium processing unit at Gogi village in Yadgir district. The UCIL, which started exploration for uranium in this village in 2007, has found rich deposits of high-grade uranium (U235) that is used to generate nuclear power.

The state high-level clearance committee (SHLCC) headed by Karnataka chief minister B S Yeddyurappa recently cleared the company’s application for mining uranium and processing, at an investment of Rs 550 crore.

The deputy commissioner of Yadgir district recently issued the no objection certificate to UCIL. However, the company is yet to be issued mining lease by the government.

“This is just a preliminary approval for their operations. Before starting work to mine the material, they have to complete the environment impact assessment report and seek approval from the ministry of environment and forests (MoEF), Government of India. Only after that will their application for mining lease be processed by the state government,” H R Srinivasa, director, mines and geology, told Business Standard.

The deposits in Gogi are expected to last at least 15 years and the company wants to take up mining at a depth of 65 metres and excavate horizontally over an area of 109 acres, he said.

According to the initial estimates, the company plans to extract 500 tonnes of iron ore per day and recover 1 kg of uranium per tonne, which is double the yield from Kadapa mines in Andhra Pradesh. The UCIL has found a concentration of 400-450 gms in Jharkhand mines.

The company, apart from Gogi village, has also found rich deposits of uranium in Dharwad and Belgaum districts.

In Dharwad, the company has found uranium deposits in the shape of a bar, and are richer than the Gogi village, and the UCIL is likely to take up open cast mining, Srinivasa said.

He also allayed fears of the farmers in Gogi village that radiation levels in and around the uranium deposits are within the prescribed limits of the International Radiation Commission (IRC).

The uranium ore mining by UCIL is likely to yield royalty in excess of Rs 400 crore per annum for the department of mines and geology, he said.

However, the residents of Gogi village have raised serious doubts over the safety of conducting uranium mining in their village. During the public hearing conducted by Karnataka State Pollution Control Board on November 16, 2010, residents of Gogi and four nearby villages had raised objections for carrying out mining.

The UCIL has in its Environment Impact Assessment and Environmental Management Plan submitted to the Karnataka State Pollution Control Board recently, said an Environment Engineering Cell, comprising officials of both the UCIL and BARC, will be constituted at the project site to implement various mitigation measures.

Just waiting for patkar and her band of paid agitators to land up with the usual lot of toxic foreign sponsored NGOs in tow.

49,000 tonnes uranium deposit in Andhra; may rise threefold.

Scientists have found massive uranium deposits at the mines in Tummalapalle in Andhra Pradesh, a site that has the potential to emerge as the largest reserve of the key nuclear fuel in the world.

"At today's estimates, the uranium reserves are to the tune of 49,000 tonnes. We expect it to be three-fold of that," Atomic Energy Commission Chairman Srikumar Banerjee told reporters here.

Earlier, the uranium reserves were estimated at around 15,000 tonnes before further exploration by the Atomic Minerals Directorate (AMD), a Department of Atomic Energy entity. If the identified deposits are in the excess of 1.5 lakh tonnes, the Tummalapalle mine could rank as the largest uranium reserve in the world.

"We expect the reserves to be much more and the site has the potential to become the world's largest uranium reserve," Banerjee said.
This discovery comes as a shot in the arm for the DAE which had estimated the uranium reserves in the country to be in the range of 1.7 lakh tonnes. AMD scientists expect uranium deposits to occur over the entire length of the 160-km Tummalapalle belt with a depth consistency of 400 metres.

The Uranium Corporation of India Limited (UCIL) has begun mine opening operations for the uranium in 2007 and by this year end a mill to process the ore is expected to start functioning.

The UCIL has uranium mines and a mill to process the ore in Jharkhand and has identified deposits in Meghalaya and Karnataka. The uranium ore at Tummalapalle, though large, is not of a very rich variety.

The AMD has also identified about 4,000 tonnes of uranium deposits at Gogi in Gulbarga district of Karnataka, which is a very rich ore.

^^^ There goes any hopes of GE or westinghouse to get a reactor deal. If it turns out to be 135k tonnes we will be the 9 th largest in the world. B4 this discovery our reserves were estimated to be 80k tonnes . Ironically after this discovery we will have marginally more reserves than UNKIL.

How many decades it is good for. Or at least 100 years

gakakkad wrote:^^^ There goes any hopes of GE or westinghouse to get a reactor deal. If it turns out to be 135k tonnes we will be the 9 th largest in the world. B4 this discovery our reserves were estimated to be 80k tonnes . Ironically after this discovery we will have marginally more reserves than UNKIL.

The hunt is still on for discovering more of the "metal" in Desh and they aint done yet?.
Now we have realistic prospects of 170+150=320k Tons. Even if it cost more $, it provides strategic leverage .

gakakkad wrote:^^^ There goes any hopes of GE or westinghouse to get a reactor deal. If it turns out to be 135k tonnes we will be the 9 th largest in the world. B4 this discovery our reserves were estimated to be 80k tonnes . Ironically after this discovery we will have marginally more reserves than UNKIL.

nothing is happening to the reactor deal.

That is pay off for the reactor and NSG deals.

If we use foreign reactors we will have to use foreign fuel bundles. They will not use our Uranium. So these reserves will only serve our own designs of which several have been started up over the past 6 months.

There is likely to be much more Uranium and other minerals for that matter out there.

Geologically India belongs to the South Africa & Australia block, very ancient and filled with minerals. India is by far the least explored, less than 5% by some accounts. Verily Kamadhenu.

In any case it is still a drop in the ocean.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 248407.ece

It will still not be sufficient to meet India's needs: Banerjee

Tummalapalle in Andhra Pradesh could have one of the largest uranium reserves in the world. Recent studies have indicated that it could have a reserve of 1.5 lakh tonnes of the scarce material.

Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy, and Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission Srikumar Banerjee said: “Studies have already shown that the area had a confirmed reserve of 49,000 tonnes and recent surveys indicated that this figure could go up even three folds.”

How many decades it is good for. Or at least 100 years

Simple physics .. 200Mev per fission, and Avogadro's number..and reasonable value of efficiency ..
About 1 ton of U235 for 1GW year. ...Since U235 is about .7% of natural U.. about 140 tons per 1GW year.

Nuclear-boost: Uranium mine in Andhra could be among largest in world

"It`s confirmed that the mine has 49,000 tonnes of ore, and there are indications that the total quantity could be three times of that amount. If that be the case, it will become the largest uranium mine in the world. The plant is ready, and will begin production by the end of this year," Banerjee said.

India can buy out the Aussies?

Theo_Fidel boss, you truly are a jack of all trades I truly enjoy reading your posts on a variety of issues. you are right on the money. India and Australia are geologically similar. We therefore probably have a lot more uranium. Politics and PSU dinosaurs have combined to put us in the blackmail situation we are in today.

Meanwhile in the Canada Press...
India Canada partnership to sell nuclear reactors

And From Japan...
N-deal with Japan in limbo

I think South Korean , Indian and UKistan are builidng the similar capacity> Japanesse will not be the sole supplier of heavy vessels for Nuke plants for long.

Amber G. wrote:About 1 ton of U235 for 1GW year. ...Since U235 is about .7% of natural U.. about 140 tons per 1GW year.

It is typically a bit more than this as full burn up is never achieved though other fission also contributes some heat. 200-250 tonnes/year in a conventional reactor appears to be the thumb rule.

A deposit of 150,000 tones can generate 150,000/200 = 750 Gigawatt year of power total without breeding. After that it is a function of how quickly you want to draw it down. 50,000 MW capacity will run through it in 15 years or so.

TOILet has a major news on Indian Uranium reserves...
Nuclear-boost: Uranium mine in Andhra could be among largest in worldhttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 277652.cms

The Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) has discovered that the upcoming uranium mine in Andhra Pradesh's Tumalapalli has close to 49,000 tonnes of uranium — three times the original estimate of the area`s deposits. In fact, there are indications that the total quantity could go up to 1.5 lakh tonnes, which would make it among the largest uranium mines in the world.

More flowers to be made into a garland!!!

This will provide the seed energy for more Thorium energy research, and we happen to have a good deal of that

PratikDas wrote:This will provide the seed energy for more Thorium energy research, and we happen to have a good deal of that

To do that you would need to separate out the U-235 away from U-238 which would trigger off a whole separate slew of issues. Much easier to straight breed Pu-239 from U-238. Though no one has been able to commercially do this yet. Every attempt has ended in disappointment.

Also much easier to separate Pu-239. BARC is trying to use Pu-239 to breed Thorium in PFBR Kalpakkam to U-233. Only need a couple of tonnes of Pu-239 for this. Needs to be seen how efficient the process ends up being.

Wow, the last lame excuse for the sell out of a deal is also gone.

Penny drop -- I now realize what was the unholy hurry to ram through the deal even at the cost of openly buying parliamentary functions -- the Govt new that the despite deliberate pussy footing for a long time on nuclear mining, enough data was going to come into the public space which will reduce the "oh we dont have Nuclear material" whine to a Diggy raja variety statement.

Thus they needed to carry out the exercise and pull wool over Indian eyes before the information became public.

Imagine trying to sell the deal after 1-2 such discoveries? Trying to tell Indians that we must accept onerous restriction and spend tons of taxpayer money for questionable reactors which come without technology? That we must actually legitimize NSG and NPT and other attempts to castrate us after years of standing firm? That second class citizen was a status we must happily accept?

That now or never deal was in the making?

Jai ho -- these guys are really intelligent and very good at what they do.

Theo_Fidel wrote:

PratikDas wrote:This will provide the seed energy for more Thorium energy research, and we happen to have a good deal of that

To do that you would need to separate out the U-235 away from U-238 which would trigger off a whole separate slew of issues. Much easier to straight breed Pu-239 from U-238. Though no one has been able to commercially do this yet. Every attempt has ended in disappointment.

Also much easier to separate Pu-239. BARC is trying to use Pu-239 to breed Thorium in PFBR Kalpakkam to U-233. Only need a couple of tonnes of Pu-239 for this. Needs to be seen how efficient the process ends up being.

Thanks for the insight - genuinely appreciated. I was simply pointing out the fact that in the research phase most experiments consume more energy than they produce. The energy consumed needs to come from somewhere too. This new uranium find should help fuel uranium reactors to produce the required energy. I think that makes sense, but I could be wrong.

PratikDas wrote:I was simply pointing out the fact that in the research phase most experiments consume more energy than they produce.

In ALL phases all human activities consume more energy than they produce. This is law of conservation of energy coupled with engineering efficiency of form of energy transformation.

You probably want to say something else.

Sanku wrote:

PratikDas wrote:I was simply pointing out the fact that in the research phase most experiments consume more energy than they produce.

In ALL phases all human activities consume more energy than they produce. This is law of conservation of energy coupled with engineering efficiency of form of energy transformation.

You probably want to say something else.

No. I was spot on. Burning a kerosene lamp as an experiment with a match would produce more energy than what was consumed in making the match itself or my act of setting it alight, provided there's enough kerosene in the lamp to tilt the odds in my favour. There is no need to go back to the time of the dinosaurs that died to provide biomass that decayed into the crude oil which gave the kerosene.

Somewhat related as there was a discussion started in this thread. Also related to Uranium find..

According to recent article which is expected to make news headlines in mainstream media, recent measurements confirm that more than half of earths heat (44000 GigaWatts) comes from radioactivity and fission reactor in the earth's core. For perspective, this is a few times the total power production in the world.

There is quite a lot of Uranium/Thorium in the earth's crust.. and not to forget, about 4,000 GW comes from decaying K40... (remember all those discussion about radioactivity in a banana!)

Here is xpost from Physics dhaga...>>>

AmberG wrote:

GuruPrabhu wrote:I hadn't realized that the discussion had moved here. The explanation for U/Th not sinking is as Amber said -- U/Th are lithophile rather than siderophile (metal loving). This is seen in foundries also. If you take a large vat of molten iron, the U and Th impurities migrate from the bulk and concentrate on the periphery (mostly on top!). The core of the earth has two parts, a solid one and a liquid one -- the liquid is mostly molten Fe and Ni, which has expelled the U and Th.

There is some speculation that there is a concentration of U in the solid core also. If true, this may form a natural reactor. There is no direct evidence yet -- the numbers have to add. The measured *total* heat flow from the earth is either 31 TW or 44 TW, depending on the method used. OTOH, several calculations now agree that the radiogenic component (U/Th/K decays in the mantle) contributes 19-20 TW. There are estimates that the "core reactor" may contribute as much as 6 TW. All of this can be sorted out if planned large neutrino detectors get the go ahead.

Don't know if GP is still here to read this (or he became a victim of Bradmins' game) but neutrino detectors in Japan and Italy(Kamioka Liquid-Scintillator Antineutrino Detector and the Borexino) have confirmed, according to a recent article, that indeed there is fission going on.

More than half of 44 TW is from radioactive decay (+ fission in the core, confirmed by geoneutrino's). And yes about 4TW from decaying K40. Remember those bananas!

Expect a few news headlines regarding this in coming days.

.
>>>>
Link:http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop ... tureGeosci

India may soon export Nuclear Reactors

WASHINGTON: India could soon join a select group of countries like US, China and France which export nuclear reactors, a Congressional report has said.

....

According to World Nuclear Association, India is offering its indigenous 220 and 540 megawatt heavy water reactor designs for export, although no specific customers have been identified.

The CRS report said only a limited number of countries conduct commercial enrichment and reprocessing of fissile materials and can supply this technology.

At present, supplier states are not planning any transfers of enrichment or reprocessing technology. The Nuclear Suppliers Group recently added criteria to its guidelines for the supply of fuel cycle technologies.

"Commercial reprocessing is now being done in France, the United Kingdom, Russia, Japan, and India."

upcoming uranium mine in Andhra Pradesh's Tumalapalli

This will deprive people of their land, cause their babies to be born without heads and give their grandmother cancer. There will be no mine in Tumalapalli. The entire site will gheroed by progressive activists interested in the welfare of the oppressed. Not a gram of yellowcake will be produced from this.

Before anyone jumps, Gerard forgot the smilie. Bad Gerard.

I said many times the object of the deal is to codicil the NPT and get out of the sanctions regime. All else is time pass.

PratikDas wrote:

Sanku wrote: In ALL phases all human activities consume more energy than they produce. This is law of conservation of energy coupled with engineering efficiency of form of energy transformation.

You probably want to say something else.

No. I was spot on. Burning a kerosene lamp as an experiment with a match would produce more energy than what was consumed in making the match itself or my act of setting it alight, provided there's enough kerosene in the lamp to tilt the odds in my favour. There is no need to go back to the time of the dinosaurs that died to provide biomass that decayed into the crude oil which gave the kerosene.

Amber G. wrote:(remember all those discussion about radioactivity in a banana!)

Amber go easy on the banana. A lot of people in these parts are allergic to it. Too much logic for them to handle!

ramana wrote:I said many times the object of the deal is to codicil the NPT and get out of the sanctions regime. All else is time pass.

Ramana,

Well said.

@ Amber would you be having full text of the nature article?
From my hospital I can only access Nature Medicine and Nature genetics.

Except the NPT has not been amended. And the sanctions regime has not been lifted.

Note pipsqueak Australia unilaterally issuing sanctions against India using the NPT as cover. Or the USA issuing the Hyde clause which is a pretty India specific sanction. God forbid any Indian Institute should by mistake obtain any dual use reprocessing technology....

What kind of deal is this again. Some victory this....

Theo_Fidel wrote:Except the NPT has not been amended. And the sanctions regime has not been lifted.

There was no chance that it ever would, to some obvious is obvious early, other, deliberately or otherwise take months and years to get to what is clear early on.