Indian Naval Discussion

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Mar 2012 07:09

MDL and the MOD babus have won! NO pvt yards to build subs,a bitter blow to L&T and Indian shipbuilding in general.It means that the inefficiency of MDL which is in "hard labour"trying to build 6 Scorpenes,will hog the lot ,sharing the loot with HSL if that yard is free from building our N-subs.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ct/466583/

Doors slammed on pvt firms in submarine project
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi Mar 03, 2012, 00:56 IST

The ministry of defence (MoD) has ruled that no private sector shipyard in the country has the infrastructure and capability required for building the high-tech conventional submarines that the Indian Navy wants. The long-delayed Project 75I, to build six conventional submarines for an estimated Rs 30,000-35,000 crore, will be divided between foreign shipyards and the defence public sector.

The Secretary of Defence Production, Shekhar Agarwal, has told Business Standard that the ministry has decided that the first two Project 75I submarines will be built abroad by the foreign vendor that wins the MoD contract. The next four vessels will be built in India, in the two defence shipyards that have the infrastructure for building submarines — Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai (MDL), and Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, Visakhapatnam (HSL).

This decision is a blow to private sector shipyards, especially L&T, which is playing a major role in building the Arihant-class nuclear submarines, as well as ABG Shipyard and Pipavav Shipyard, which have invested lavishly on infrastructure. Contacted for a comment, L&T’s defence business chief, M V Kotwal, said, “We have not been informed about any such development by the MoD. If it is true, it is extremely surprising. We have informed the MoD already about the capabilities and capacities that we have put in place for building submarines. These have already been demonstrated in the Arihant project. L&T has the engineering and manufacturing capability needed for building submarines in India.”

Three successive MoD committees have considered the thorny question of which shipyards can build a submarine. The latest, headed by V Krishnamurthy, Chairman of the National Manufacturing Competitiveness Council (NMCC), submitted a split opinion last year, which mentioned that L&T could also be considered.

“The MoD has examined the Krishnamurthy Committee report and decided that no private sector shipyard individually has the capability to build a submarine,” said Agarwal.

This decision was taken by the MoD’s apex Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in January, says Agarwal. But, since it countermands an earlier CCS sanction, this will require sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS). In 1999, the CCS had sanctioned the 30-Year Submarine Construction Plan for constructing 24 conventional submarines entirely in India. The latest MoD decision to build two submarines abroad runs contrary to this.

Business Standard has learnt that the Indian Navy has argued forcefully for building the first two Project 75I submarines abroad. The navy hopes this would forestall the delays that marred the ongoing Project 75, which involves constructing six Scorpene submarines in MDL, in partnership with Franco-Spanish consortium, Armaris (which was subsequently taken over by French shipbuilder, DCNS). The first Scorpene, which was to be delivered this year, will only be completed in 2015.

Top MoD sources apprehend that the CCS might be wary of okaying the proposal to build two submarines abroad. In 1999, the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) had regarded Indian shipbuilders capable of building 24 submarines in India. Thirteen years later, and with significant shipbuilding successes under its belt, including the indigenous production of a nuclear submarine, the CCS faces the risks for any decision to build abroad?

The CCS also faces a difficult decision in sanctioning a fresh Transfer of Technology (ToT), which the navy insists upon. India has already obtained ToT thrice: from Germany for the HDW submarine line; from France, for the Scorpene; and, to an unclear extent, from Russia for the nuclear INS Arihant. The technology for Scorpene alone cost Rs 6,000 crore. A fresh request for ToT risks accusations of failure in absorbing technology.

Senior naval officers who favour indigenisation point out that, when India bought the HDW Type 209 submarine in the 1980s, HDW built the first two submarines abroad. But the next two submarines, which were built in MDL, faced lengthy delays. Eventually, the MoD decided not to build any more, largely because of corruption allegations. Now the CCS will again have to recommend that construction model.

The MoD’s Acquisitions Wing is drafting a Project Note, which summarises these issues for the CCS. This effort has been under way for more than a month now.

The Scorpene is a 1,700-tonne submarine that can remain at sea for 40-50 days. A submarine traditionally lurks underwater, firing torpedoes to destroy enemy battleships. It dives as deep as 300 metres to evade detection, but its diesel-electric engines are not as silent, or have as much endurance, as the new “air-independent propulsion”, or AIP, that the navy wants in the new Project 75I submarines. India has an option to install AIP in the last two Scorpenes that MDL builds, and then retrofit AIP into the other four Scorpenes as well.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Mar 2012 12:40

Very Sad and Frustrating that Private players have been kept out of submarine building game , this will have impact for decades to come , L&T has been hoping for a long time to get its share of pie in P-75I and had built some infrastructure for it in anticipation now all that comes to a stand still.

Although the decision to build first 2 of P-75I abroad is welcome , this should speed up induction and hopefully the IN would have to put up to PSU culture of delay and price rise.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 03 Mar 2012 13:39

http://expressbuzz.com/states/kerala/%E ... 68987.html

OCHI: The Coastal Security and Shipping officials on Friday zeroed in on four suspected vessels in the hit-and- run case off the Alappuzha coast in which two fishermen were killed and three are missing. mv Prabhu Daya, one of the suspected vessels, has been asked to report to Kochi for further investigation.
The officials, however, maintained that a number of vessels are being investigated and that no conclusive evidence has been found so far.
Apart from mv Prabhu Daya, three other vessels - one Hong Kong vessel, another two going to Paradip and Kolkata ports - are also in the suspected list. However, only Prabhu Daya has been asked to report to Kochi.
Prabhu Daya, a Singapore-flagged merchant vessel owned by an Indian shipping firm, was off the Colombo coast when located. A bulk container carrier, the vessel was on its way to a Chinese port from Panaji in Goa.
“Tracking the location and the possible time of occurrence which is about 12.30 am, the Coast Guard and Navy intercepted a couple of vessels. We have located possible vessels using the available satellite data. Out of this, the Director-General of Shipping has located the most probable one and directed the owners to ask the vessel to report. However, nothing is conclusive. We can identify whether this vessel was involved in the incident only after carrying out a physical inspection, checking of the log book and voice data recorder in the vessel,” said sources

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Mar 2012 14:25

Self Deleted

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 03 Mar 2012 15:41

Philip wrote:Doors slammed on pvt firms in submarine project

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Mar 2012 16:41

Sorry for the OT, but in the context of the su-33 discussion, the su-33 is definitely a dying plane now. No more R&D and further development/tranches. I cant help but feel that there is a Chinese angle to it, this is essentially cutting off the su-33 clone that China is building. The Chinese are left to themselves now on this aircraft. Any hope that the future IN's big carriers might sport the su-33 is also gone now. The naval PAK-FA and the Rafale are far better options now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Mar 2012 18:24

imo Russia/Ukr have sold the su33 databank and design to PRC . they will work on it further if paid appropriately by PRC.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Mar 2012 19:28

Navy Clearance Divers locate sunken fishing vessel

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 03 Mar 2012 19:48

I have a question.
What will be the flagship of the Indian Navy once both INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant are inducted ? I think it should be the INS Vikrant because it will have MADE IN INDIA stamp on it.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 03 Mar 2012 21:58

Philip wrote:MDL and the MOD babus have won! NO pvt yards to build subs,a bitter blow to L&T and Indian shipbuilding in general.It means that the inefficiency of MDL which is in "hard labour"trying to build 6 Scorpenes,will hog the lot ,sharing the loot with HSL if that yard is free from building our N-subs.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ct/466583/

Doors slammed on pvt firms in submarine project
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi Mar 03, 2012, 00:56 IST

The ministry of defence (MoD) has ruled that no private sector shipyard in the country has the infrastructure and capability required for building the high-tech conventional submarines that the Indian Navy wants. The long-delayed Project 75I, to build six conventional submarines for an estimated Rs 30,000-35,000 crore, will be divided between foreign shipyards and the defence public sector.

So it is okie to provide economy of scales to some outsider, but to provide private shipyards the orders so that they can build the submarines and consequently scale up is a strict no-no. Our procurement is totally screwed up. We are paying Indian Taxpayers money to foreign shipyards, when the same money could be used in our own shipyards, private or public.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 03 Mar 2012 22:54

But at least the MOD have shown good sense to procure the first two from the foreign yard. This will help to avoid any Collins type disaster the Aussies faced. L&t and Pipapav can get major sub-contracts from the MOD yards. Pipapav is currently helping MDL with the Scorpenes and the L&T with Arihants. Such arrangements must be made with the private yards to fully utilize their capacity thus ensuring timely delivery.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Mar 2012 01:46

Sorry for the OT, ..................

Me too.

........ but in the context of the su-33 discussion, the su-33 is definitely a dying plane now.

A dead plane. Knew it in 2009. (Which is why they decided on the 29K - in 2009. Seems to have become financially feasible now.)

IIRC, even the Chinese copy is not doing as per plans. May be something has changed in the past year or two...........
____________________________________________

Just one observation, will stop after this.

Yes, the 29K - and all other 29s too - is a great plane, with a great bank for the buck. However, here are my observations from about a year ago. RuAF has some 600 29s (various variants). They - IIRC - are not going gung ho to "upgrade" them as afar as I can tell. They are valued - for sure, but for some odd reason the 29s are getting very, very limited attention.

My read is that the battle between Sukhoi and MiG has not died as yet. And, it is this battle that is the erason behind the lack of attention. It is not in the best interest of Sukhoi to see a "MiG" rise.

On the engine side of the equation, India has invested in the "5th Gen" engine for the PAK-FA/FGFA. So, I very much doubt that we will see a new engine - in the true sense - for the 29K.

On MiG-29K in the IN for 40 years - I bet that was the original plan (and a good one at that). But, I have to suspect that newer techs will force that issue - in about 10 years.
__________________________________________

IF we all can build very, very secure networks we just might see a good RoI in a few years.

kuldipchager · Post by **kuldipchager** » 04 Mar 2012 10:37

I have't see any thing from Igor from long time.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 04 Mar 2012 16:29

kuldipchager wrote:I have't see any thing from Igor from long time.

http://igor-dzhadan.livejournal.com/

He's very much in politics nowadays.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 05 Mar 2012 16:22

Maybe we can see some of these gators on our future LHDs

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 05 Mar 2012 17:36

You'll see these stealthy gators flying from our LHD's.

Look at the high resolution image.
http://www.indiaafricaconnect.in/upload ... 3361_l.jpg
I plan to use it as my desktop background.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 05 Mar 2012 18:02

Sikorsky offers military choppers to India

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 Mar 2012 19:26

front aspect is very narrow, mogambo khush huya!

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 06 Mar 2012 21:26

Vikramaditja is expected to under go sea trials this month for 3 to 5 months, as Sevmash yard sources.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 06 Mar 2012 21:35

Underwater might :: The DRDO's triad of laboratories supply the Indian Navy with high-potential weapons systems

THE 52 laboratories of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) spread across India have a high-potential but low-profile trimurti, specialising in naval systems, among them – the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) in Visakhapatnam, the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL) in Kochi, and the Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL) at Ambernath, 60 km from Mumbai. “I describe them as Brahma, Vishnu and Siva [the triad of Hindu gods],” said S.V. Rangarajan, Director, NSTL.

The NSTL, situated in the foothills of the Eastern Ghats, is the only laboratory in the country to develop underwater weapons such as torpedoes and mines, their associated fire control systems, and decoys to “seduce” enemy torpedoes. It also develops stealth technology, produces autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) and conducts research in hydro-dynamics. The NPOL develops sonars, surveillance and underwater communication systems and counter-measures. The NMRL has come up with non-skid, anti-corrosion and fire-retardant paints, smart coating and fuel cells. It pursues research in protective technologies, marine materials, energy science, polymers and ceramics. “While the NPOL is Brahma, the perceiver, and the NMRL the protector, we are Siva, the destroyer,” declared Rangarajan, filling the room with his gentle humour. He predicted that future wars would be fought at sea and under water. But while most of the underwater technology was not available in the marketplace, he said India had made “significant progress, with an indigenous grip” in the field. “Our base is strong,” he said.

Scientists of the NSTL work in a harsh atmosphere as they work under water, which is about 850 times heavier than air. The technology of developing torpedoes is much more complex than building missiles because torpedoes have to speed under water where the resistance is far higher than in air. Besides, Rangarajan said, torpedoes are an amalgam of difficult disciplines: they include electro-chemistry, structural engineering, mechatronics, signal processing, real-time software, embedded systems, transduction and sensing, acoustics, gyroscopes, inertial navigation and guidance systems, and warheads.

The NSTL has developed both light-water torpedoes (LWTs), named TAL, and heavy-weight torpedoes (HWTs), named Takshak and Varunastra. Takshak has two versions, a submarine-launched variant with wire guidance and a ship-launched one with autonomous guidance. Varunastra is an advanced version of the ship-launched HWT. Under development is a torpedo called Shakti with thermal propulsion, which can generate 500 kilowatt of power and rev up the engine within a second. “Thermal propulsion is a challenging technology,” said Rangarajan. “It is a totally indigenous effort. We have already consolidated several technologies in its development. Only the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia had torpedoes with thermal propulsion when we took up the challenge.”

The LWT is 2-3 metres long, weighs 200 kg to 300 kg and packs 50 kg of explosives. It can be launched from ships and helicopters. When a helicopter releases the LWT, the latter drops down with the help of a parachute, which gets detached when the torpedo hits the water. TAL has a speed of 33 knots an hour and can operate at a maximum depth of 540 m. It is under production by Bharat Dynamics Limited, Hyderabad, for the Navy.

The Advanced LWT (ALWT) is currently under design and will be in production in 2015-16. In Takshak, which is an anti-submarine system, the wire is the medium of communication between the torpedo and the firing ship. If the wire breaks, Takshak would become an autonomous torpedo like its ship-launched variant. It can travel up to a distance of 40 km for taking out submarines and can operate up to a depth of 400 m.

Varunastra, which is ready for trials by the Navy, weighs more than one tonne and contains 250 kg of explosives. It travels at a speed of 40 knots an hour, going in circles and bobbing up and down to attack targets. K. Sudhakar, Principal Associate Director, NSTL, called the torpedo's homing device, located in its front portion, “its eyes and ears” as it detects and tracks the target. Its guidance system enables it to take the optimum path towards the target, and its onboard computer guides its rudder's navigation towards the target. The warhead has a proximity fuse, with the blast occurring about 8 m from the target. “The torpedo should have its own intelligence to reject the decoy and go towards the target,” Sudhakar said. Besides, torpedoes should be water-tight. “Development of a torpedo takes 10 to 15 years. It has to go through several sea trials. We started out in this field 25 years ago. No torpedo technology is available in the open market,” he added.

Decoys are mini-torpedoes that “seduce” and mislead torpedoes coming from enemy craft so that naval vessels can get away, explained N. Raghavarao, senior scientist. The NSTL has developed a submarine-launched decoy. The Navy has inducted this decoy into service. The NSTL and the NPOL are working on another decoy called Mareech. The NSTL is developing Mohini, a rocket-launched anti-sonar decoy.

Mines in underwater warfare are lethal and cost-effective weapons. Capable of detecting targets, they can be launched from ships, submarines and air. They can stay under water in “sleep” mode for several months and, on sensing magnetic, acoustic and pressure signatures, wake up to detonate. The NSTL has delivered processor-based ground (that is, seabed) mine to the Navy, says S.M. Bhave, a senior scientist. It has developed moored mines, which will hang at certain depths in the sea.

A big programme under way at the NSTL is the building of an AUV. Manu Korulla, scientist, called the AUVs “a new class of intelligent underwater vehicles, which will operate without human supervision to carry out survey, surveillance and reconnaissance missions.” The AUV can be configured to drop and hunt for mines, lift underwater bodies, do counter-communication measures and change course on sensing obstacles. It will have cameras, sonars and image processors. “We know the technology to develop various sizes of AUVs for various applications,” Korulla said.

C.D. Malleswar, a senior scientist, said the laboratory had developed Panchendriya, a submarine-based fire-control system (FCS), which has been inducted into the Navy's Vela class of submarines. The FCS receives information from the boat's sonar on the target's bearing and presets the torpedoes for destroying the enemy craft. The NSTL has supplied three helicopter-based FCSs for torpedoes to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. “We have received production orders for seven FCSs for the integrated anti-submarine war complex,” Malleswar said. The NSTL has gargantuan facilities. There is a big hall with several state-of-the-art CNC [Computer Numerical Control] machines. R.V.S. Subrahmanyam, scientist, said the components used in torpedoes, mines and decoys were machined in CNC machines. “This is elite class work,” he said, showing a component where the clearance between a rotor and its cowl was just 0.5 mm.

The NSTL's High Speed Towing Tank is a huge building enclosing a water channel that is 500 m long, 8 m wide and 8 m deep. It holds 32,000 tonnes of water. NSTL scientists tow models of ships and submarines at high speed in the channel to study the resistance offered to them by water, the resultant drag, and the power required to overcome the resistance. “We study the resistance offered by water so that we can design the hull of these bodies more efficiently,” said P.K. Panigrahi, a senior scientist.

Another big facility is a cavitation tunnel. Here water is pumped on to a propeller to create flow conditions for the blades to study the phenomenon of bubbles formation. Amazing is the sea-keeping and manoeuvring basin, an artificial lake with a roof, which is under construction. Four giant borewells will pump 240 lakh litres of water over three months to form the lake, which will be 135 m long, 37 m broad and 5 m deep. Here, waves will be generated to study their impact on the seaworthiness and agility of vessels.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 06 Mar 2012 21:41

Navy's eyes and ears

THE Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi, aims at perfection. Take for instance the system integration rig on its wooded campus. It is a small room, rigged up to look like a cabin in the Indian Navy's warship, with several pieces of sonar equipment, operators' cubicles, computer consoles, and so on. Not only is the cabin's ambience similar to that of a ship's cabin but even the lighting is “low” as in a vessel. The sonar's narrow cubicles with consoles resemble those in a warship.

This year, 2012, is the golden jubilee of the NPOL. Originally named the Indian Naval Physical Laboratory, it was set up in 1952 and became part of the DRDO in 1958. It was re-christened NPOL in 1967.

S. Anantha Narayanan, Director, NPOL, said, “Our vision is to be a centre of excellence in underwater sensors and surveillance systems. This is a niche area. Nobody else in this country is working on underwater sensors and surveillance systems.” The NPOL's mission is to design, develop and integrate sonar systems for installation in the Navy's ships and submarines. The NPOL fosters the technologies, which will enable the development of sonars and associated material, and increase the understanding of ocean environment. It has partnered with the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) in developing an anti-torpedo defence system called Mareech, which includes a sensor array and a decoy.

The NPOL specialises in anti-submarine warfare oceanography, which essentially is about how sound waves propagate under water in various temperature, pressure and salinity conditions. “That study is done exclusively by the NPOL, and it has an important bearing on the capability of the sonar systems that the country builds,” Anantha Narayanan said.

Sonars are early warning systems that help in the location of enemy vessels, submarines, torpedoes and sea mines. Anantha Narayanan described sonars as “essentially underwater radars”. Developing sonars is more complex compared with radars because it requires understanding the ocean's depth, salinity and temperature. While a radar uses electromagnetic waves to warn of incoming enemy aircraft or missiles, sonars use acoustic waves to warn of threats from hostile ships/submarines and torpedoes. (Electromagnetic waves get attenuated quickly in water). Transducers convert the electrical energy into acoustic energy, which propagates in water. This is processed and the findings are displayed on the operator's console for interpretation. By listening to the noise coming from under water, an experienced operator can figure out whether it belongs to a ship, a submarine or a torpedo.

Sonars are of two types: passive and active. A passive sonar picks up the radiated noise from a hostile submarine, a torpedo or schools of fish, interprets the direction in which it is coming and identifies the target. From the noise that an engine or a propeller in a ship, submarine or torpedo makes, sonars can make out their attributes. They pick up that signature, track it and thus find out the direction in which the object is moving, calculate its speed and also help in classifying it as a friend or foe. An active sonar pumps energy into the water, waits for the echo, and thus helps in finding out the distance at which the object is travelling. Active sonars are fitted on ships so that they can hunt for submarines. Submarines use passive sonars so that they can pick up the noise from ships without their (submarines) getting exposed. Sonars can be deployed from air, with helicopters lowering the transducers into water.

In the 1980s, the NPOL came up with a hull-mounted sonar called Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull (APSOH). It was the first indigenously designed and developed ship-borne sonar system for active ranging, passive listening, auto-tracking of targets and their classification. Then it developed HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Advanced), which helped naval vessels track their targets in shallow and deep waters and proved its efficiency for about 10 years even in the highly variable tropical waters.

The NPOL has now developed HUMSA-NG (new generation) and S. Kedarnath Shenoy, scientist, is its architect. The project was completed in just four years – from the drawing board to tests, fitment on a vessel and evaluation, said Anantha Narayanan. He added: “It is a third-generation sonar for surface ships that the NPOL is making. There lies the message.” The message is that it disproves the notion that the DRDO delayed the projects, he said. APSOH took seven years to develop, HUMSA five and HUMSA-NG less than four years. “So the learning curve has enabled us to deliver the products in time, and right now we are ahead of the [availability of the] ships,” the Director added.

Shenoy said that out of 10 HUMSA-NG sonars delivered to the Navy since 2009, three were installed on its ships and the integration of one was under way. Besides these 10 sonars, the Navy has placed orders for six HUMSA-NG sonars. They would be installed on destroyers, frigates and corvettes. Another sonar developed by the NPOL for installation on the Navy's EKM class of submarines is called USHUS. Besides detecting and tracking enemy submarines, vessels and torpedoes, it can be used for underwater communication and for avoiding obstacles.

R. Kanakarajan, Associate Director, NPOL, said the current trend in the passive sonars deployed on submarines was to work towards low frequencies. “As we go down in frequency, the size of the sonar sensor array goes up. There are contradictory requirements: sonars should be compact, they should have low frequency and high power and should be light. These are the challenges we face when we work under water in dynamic conditions,” said Kanakarajan.

Mihir is the sonar deployed from helicopters. Its transducer is dunked under water. DRDO literature says that this sonar has been designed for the Army's Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) where weight, space and power are at a premium. The system consists of a sonar dome, acoustic and environmental sensors, a winching system, a signal conditioner and processor, a very high frequency receiver and antenna. The transducer converts the electrical energy into acoustic energy and the echo is available on display in the computer for the operator to interpret. The area covered is more because a helicopter can lower the transducer in one location, sanitise it and fly elsewhere for deploying the transducer again.

The NPOL has developed a Towed Array Data Sonar System (to detect submarines and torpedoes) in which the array alone is 200 metres long and the cable attached to it is a kilometre long. The cable and the array will be mutually buoyant. For the past seven years, the NPOL has been working on Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems (MEMS). It has developed a miniaturised underwater acoustic sensor called hydrophone, which is the equivalent of a microphone in hand. Its architect is V. Natarajan, Project Director, MEMS Regional Centre, NPOL. This hydrophone is based on metal-oxide-semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET) and a piezo-electric sensor. The sensor measures less than one inch by one inch and weighs less than 32 grams. These miniature sensors find applications in thin-lined towed arrays for submarines, ships and unmanned surface vehicles. Natarajan said the centre had developed a conductivity, temperature and depth sensor to measure the temperature, salinity and depth of the ocean because the speed of sound in the ocean depends on these parameters and they influence the sonars' performance. “This sensor is totally indigenous,” Natarajan said.

Sameer Abdul Azeez, scientist, NPOL, has built a novel device called Tarangini, which helps rescuers to know the depth of a waterbody and the hardness of its bed. What motivated Azeez to build the contraption was the fact that a number of people drowned in waterbodies formed by abandoned quarries in Kerala.

“We are a highly focussed laboratory. We don't do anything outside underwater surveillance,” Anantha Narayanan said. In the Twelfth Plan period (2012-17), the NPOL plans to concentrate on an anti-submarine warfare suite for ships, fourth-generation HUMSA and second-generation Mareech. “We are in continuous upgrade mode because the life of a sonar system is not more than 10 to 15 years,” he said.

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 07 Mar 2012 02:43

PS: Lot of similarities from Dileep's Snake Ruby Scenario.. like Panchendriya in the above news

An ocean of opportunities by Rajiv Bhatia in The Hindu

It is time to revitalise a long-dormant association of countries in an important maritime region.

Recently, a report by non-governmental experts suggested that in order to counter China, India should be in a position “to dominate the Indian Ocean region.” A little later, the Foreign Ministers of China and India agreed to establish and institutionalise maritime dialogue, aiming to promote cooperation and coordination between naval establishments of the two Asian majors. In a separate development, two Indian fishermen fell to firing opened by Italian oil tanker Enrica Lexie, sailing through or near our territorial waters. Much of India views it as murder, whereas Italy portrays it as “death.”

These developments highlight that a myriad challenges facing the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) are becoming more complex. As the largest resident power with immense stakes, India has a special responsibility to address them resolutely.

Click here to download PDF version of the graphic.

The fact that much of the world's extremism, terrorism, and piracy too are embedded here underscores the gravity of the challenge. The picture gets completed — and darker — as we consider non-traditional security threats including natural disasters, pervading poverty and environmental degradation.

Issue of piracy
Among the challenges, piracy deserves priority, being a live issue with widespread repercussions. A consensus exists on how to tackle piracy — navies can counter and neutralise pirates; however, piracy can be lynched “not on the sea but on land” i.e. by attacking all the vested interests and a long web of players involved in this mercenary industry as well as by rebuilding the state of Somalia. The navies, of necessity, have left it to political leaders who, in turn, have passed the buck to diplomats at the U.N. There, they continue to plod and persevere even as the number of pirate attacks increases. A greater sense of urgency and genuine collaboration among the affected countries is needed.

Security architecture
A major question is how to craft an acceptable security architecture that helps in enhancing stability in the current geo-strategic turbulence. The inevitability of rivalry between China and India in the IOR in the coming decades is cited as a given. Are they potential partners or adversaries? Partnership justifies a continuing conversation, accommodation, and sitting inside “the same tent.” The other scenario should impel India to deepen the triangular cooperation involving the U.S., Japan and itself as well as accept the notion of “Indo-Pacific” as an integrated region. But, where does one stop short of an anti-China alliance, a 21st century version SEATO?

While the northeastern section of the Indian Ocean has several security-related institutions, the north-western theatre has virtually none. Thanks to the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), institutions such as ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), ASEAN Defence Ministers Meeting Plus (ADMM+), and East Asian Summit (EAS) are purposefully engaged in addressing regional issues relating to geo-strategy, maritime security and non-traditional threats. Although lacking “institutional neatness,” the sub-region has the means to tackle challenges and create solutions. Its success last year in pressing China to stay within the four walls of international law and respect other nations' interests was notable.

Which institution can perform this task in the north-western section of the Indian Ocean, stretching from the eastern seaboard of Africa to the western coast of India? One option is to create a new institution, but that would be a daunting task. Besides, it will raise the dilemma whether to include or exclude China. An alternative, even though many old-timers laugh off the idea, is to revitalise the long-dormant Indian Ocean Rim Association for Regional Cooperation (IOR-ARC), created to foster regional economic and technical cooperation.

An option worth serious consideration is to amend the charter of IOR-ARC, enabling it to include defence and maritime security within its purview. Defence ministers of member-states can then be mandated to work in a manner similar to ADMM operating in Southeast Asia. At the recent annual conference of National Maritime Foundation, a premier think tank, foreign and Indian experts considered new ideas. One was to “leverage” IOR-ARC, developing its full potential. Another idea was that the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium, which began as an Indian initiative and has now acquired regional dimensions, should be placed under IOR-ARC.

Other elements
My years in Pretoria as India's envoy to the heads of mission committee of the IOR-ARC lead me to conclude that the association is capable of achieving more if member-states so desire. It should hold its first-ever summit at the head of government level and come up with a package of substantial cooperation to justify it. It should bring in friendly countries as “observers” to strengthen it. And, yes, it should certainly find a more user-friendly name.

A vital element in India's Indian Ocean strategy is a sustained cultivation of relations with island-nations. They are now getting the attention and assistance they need. During a recent dialogue with Jean-Paul Adam, Foreign Minister of Seychelles, I noticed him addressing the sensitive issue of a possible Chinese military base in his country, with sincerity and candour. He did this persuasively, while pinpointing a basic fact: Seychelles' relations with India have been far older and richer in comparison to China. India should be willing to trust but verify. Generous but vigilant diplomacy will help in consolidating past gains.

The maritime dimensions of IBSA — a group that began to lose shine as South Africa's interest in BRICS grew — reflected in impressive exercises conducted by the three Navies, should be continued as a building block of our IO strategy.

Finally, India needs to deploy the full range of weapons in its soft power armoury in order to heighten the awareness of IOR identity. After all, “...more than just a geographic feature,” as Robert Kaplan aptly argues, “the Indian Ocean is also an idea.” A strong regional consciousness is a pre-requisite to greater investment in this zone of increasing challenges.

(Rajiv Bhatia, a former ambassador to several capitals in the IOR, is a visiting senior research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore.)

Will · Post by **Will** » 09 Mar 2012 08:54

In one of the articles in here(dont remember which) it has been mentioned that the RFP for second line of subs has gone out and that the deal is expected to be signed in 2013-2014. Any confirmation on that?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 09 Mar 2012 09:39

i forced myself to wander through one of the museum class carriers recently. the hanger space in the 70-100k beasts is quite large, but the island, flight deck, and everything else is incredibly cramped. also f-18 and sea king and chapati carrying craft included, the aircraft are tiny.

was really surprised at how small a sea king is. teeny tiny not even comfortable standing room for a sdre.

and if this is what your larger carrier looks like how much punch can a 40k ship pack? why would you rather not invest in a land based long endurance air wing for your navy instead?

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 09 Mar 2012 12:07

Shreeman wrote:and if this is what your larger carrier looks like how much punch can a 40k ship pack? why would you rather not invest in a land based long endurance air wing for your navy instead?

Because land based aviation cannot cover operations outside IOR.

But I do agree with your central point - I think IN should get off their asses, get a clue and start acquiring long legged assets like P-8, Tu-142, Il-38, Tu-22MR etc. Maybe IN should also consider forward basing some ASW and strike assets in forward locations like AN islands etc to improve land based air cover.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Mar 2012 12:58

>> Tu-142, Il-38, Tu-22MR
you know these are dead ends.

realistically they can get more P8 and Su30MKI if they want. I think after brahmos-A is IOCed the IN might invest in a fleet of say 32 dedicated naval air MKI. and since mods are being made anyway, why not plumb the wing for 2-4 rafale style fuel tanks while brahmos-A is carried on centerline. should permit maybe 500km extra range with payload. they also need A330 tankers for P8 and MKI.

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 09 Mar 2012 16:35

Singha wrote:>> Tu-142, Il-38, Tu-22MR
you know these are dead ends.

I was talking toungue in cheek singha, IN has already invested in all the things I was ranting the IN should do in response to GP who wanted IN to invest in land based aviation.

realistically they can get more P8 and Su30MKI if they want. I think after brahmos-A is IOCed the IN might invest in a fleet of say 32 dedicated naval air MKI. and since mods are being made anyway, why not plumb the wing for 2-4 rafale style fuel tanks while brahmos-A is carried on centerline. should permit maybe 500km extra range with payload. they also need A330 tankers for P8 and MKI.

I agree with you that it would be great for IN to own those assets. But I don't think IN will get any land based naval strike fighters or AAR; IAF will pull another "Aviation Brigades" turf war all over on the IN.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 09 Mar 2012 19:32

Snehashis wrote:But at least the MOD have shown good sense to procure the first two from the foreign yard. This will help to avoid any Collins type disaster the Aussies faced. L&t and Pipapav can get major sub-contracts from the MOD yards. Pipapav is currently helping MDL with the Scorpenes and the L&T with Arihants. Such arrangements must be made with the private yards to fully utilize their capacity thus ensuring timely delivery.

In what way is MDL involved with INS Arihant ?

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 09 Mar 2012 19:58

Kersi D wrote:
Snehashis wrote:But at least the MOD have shown good sense to procure the first two from the foreign yard. This will help to avoid any Collins type disaster the Aussies faced. L&t and Pipapav can get major sub-contracts from the MOD yards. Pipapav is currently helping MDL with the Scorpenes and the L&T with Arihants. Such arrangements must be made with the private yards to fully utilize their capacity thus ensuring timely delivery.
In what way is MDL involved with INS Arihant ?

Kersi, MDL lost the contract to L&T of manufacturing the hull sections of the ATV. Apart from this any involvement of MDL in the ATV project is unknown to me.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Mar 2012 13:52

Naval Divers locate one more body inside sunk fishing vessel Don -1

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 11 Mar 2012 15:20

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 23688.aspx

Sixteen fishermen from this island were injured in a mid-sea attack allegedly by Sri Lankan Naval personnel while fishing near the international maritime boundary line (IMBL) in the Palk Strait, police said.
The Lankan Naval personnel allegedly attacked the fishermen with wooden logs, stones, bottles resulting in fracture to a 25-year old fisherman and bruises and bleeding injuries to others last night, police said.

Mathiazhagan, who suffered the fracture, has been admitted to the government hospital here while several other fishermen, whose back were swollen with weals and bruises, were treated at private hospitals, they said.

Mathiazhagan said it was a "brutal" attack by the Lankan navalmen who surrounded 25 boats of the fishermen. "They damaged the boats, snapped the fishing nets and lashed us with logs and pelted stones," he said.

A Fisheries Department official described the attack as a violation of human rights.

Local fishermen association leaders Sesu and Devaraj alleged the Sri Lankans, who had come in a Naval ship, intimidated and frightened the fishermen.

The two slammed the Centre for remaining 'mute spectator' to the recurring attacks on fishermen of Tamil Nadu.

These incidents cause unnecessary tension in the Palk Strait. What is the solution>

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 12 Mar 2012 10:03

^^^ How long will it take for one of these events to be recorded on a concealed cellphone and shared with the TV channels? I understand fisherman might not have fancy cellphones but I think even the basic ones have some video capability.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 12 Mar 2012 10:14

Policy paralysis hits India's submarine manufacturing plans

NEW DELHI: India's submarine manufacturing plans remain stuck in a debilitating policy paralysis despite China and Pakistan systematically adding teeth to their underwater combat capabilities.

After going around in circles for two years, it's back to square one as far as the proposed over Rs 50,000 crore 'Project-75 India' to construct six new-generation conventional submarines, armed with both land-attack missile capabilities and air-independent propulsion (AIP) for greater underwater endurance, is concerned.

Defence acquisitions council headed by A K Antony, on its part, has now given a fresh go-ahead to the naval proposal to directly import two of the six diesel-electric stealth submarines from the foreign collaborator eventually selected for P-75India. The remaining four boats will be built at Mazagon Docks (MDL) at Mumbai and Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) at Visakhapatnam after transfer of technology.

This marks a return to the original decision taken in early-2010, which had run aground due to squabbling between Navy and MoD's defence production department. "P-75India should have got going several years ago. With so much delay in even finalizing its contours, India cannot hope to induct these submarines anytime before 2022 at the earliest now,'' said a source.

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 12 Mar 2012 13:36

Austin wrote:
Snehashis wrote:Inside the Malaysian Scorpene
Impressive , Thanks for putting that up Snehashis.

It shows Exocet SM-39 in action .... hits some containers it carried 160 kg odd warhead , imagine Club with 400 kg warhead. But Scorpene is quite impressive sub and the sonar can hear lot of things including dolphins , shrimps etc

Should give us a good idea on whats inside this sub when IN starts operating it.

You are welcome Austin. The ICL-20 explosive developed by DRDO will be a real game changer. Think about hitting with just 160 kg ICL-20 warhead instead of 160 kg HMX. A 160 kg ICL-20 warhead will make damage equivalent of 2400 KG HMX enough to sink a carrier.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 12 Mar 2012 19:32

PratikDas wrote:^^^ How long will it take for one of these events to be recorded on a concealed cellphone and shared with the TV channels? I understand fisherman might not have fancy cellphones but I think even the basic ones have some video capability.

Per most articles the fishermen are not "victims" but indeed have knowingly crossed the IMBL - be it in Palk Straits or in Gujarat. Indian fishermen, also tend to be higher in numbers compare to the other side.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 12 Mar 2012 19:47

That's a good point, Aditya ji. I'd started thinking about GPS-stamped photography solutions before the thought occurred that the fishermen might not even want to record their true coordinates!

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 12 Mar 2012 20:38

> usually, SL navy would shoot to kill

That is not the attitude adopted by SLN, or IN or PN for that matter when it comes to erring fishermen. All navies however have resorted to:

1. Warning shots
2. Arrests
3. Confiscating equipment/catch

Hurling stones and bottles is perhaps not befitting a navy.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Mar 2012 23:40

pandyan wrote: SL navy is special; they use violence first.

That comes from years of conditioning of assuming that every unrecognized tug heading their way is a Sea Tiger suicide boat laden with explosives.

In time they will get less trigger happy.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Mar 2012 23:45

Aditya G wrote: The Lankan Naval personnel allegedly attacked the fishermen with wooden logs, stones, bottles resulting in fracture to a 25-year old fisherman and bruises and bleeding injuries to others last night, police said.

What kind of a "navy" is this? Sounds more like a bunch of unruly thugs. If the fisherman were illegally in SL's territorial waters, they could have arrested them.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 13 Mar 2012 13:21

A warning beacon put out at the IMBL between India-srilanka. Considering the number of lives lost in this region, it is not too much to ask for regular patrolling by coast guard or navy vessel to prevent ships leaving Indian waters. Even joint patrolling of water with SLN is worth exploring.

We might get a milder action from SLN with our naval ship in the vicinity. We could keep radio commucation with SLN vessels and even negotiate immediate handover of the captured indians/boats to be escorted back to our water. Time to start being assertive, if not overbearing.

Death that could have been prevented, are let to happen, and worse, forgotten.