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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2013 02:03 
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venug wrote:
^^^ Interesting that the program is about Islam, but they have beautiful babes on display that too with some cosmetics done.

The use of cosmetics is far higher in, say, the Islamic Republic of Iran than anywhere in the West. In fact, face make-up is an over-done "art form" according to some of them I put the question to. Nosejobs are also at record levels in places like Iran. In fact, its fashionable to have nosejobs, and you're not cool if you don't. Believe it or not, there are teenage chicks in Tehran who will walk around with a plastered nose for a few days just to show off that they have just had a nosejob - even when they actually haven't.

venug wrote:
Couple of his programs that I saw now on youtube too have these sculptured babes on display. Why this fascination for vanity when 72 are waiting beyond life?

Its not about 72 in this life. Rather, its for advertisement, as RajeshA ji pointed out. A very significant number of conversions happen via marriage. Even if the converting male isn't really into the religion, he allows the children to grow up as part of the community. A women who is, both, hot and sexy as well as subdued and not likely to cheat is a sign from God to many who come from 'decadent' societies (or societies where one's own women are not as pretty).

ramana wrote:
Have you read Green Mantle a pot boiler by John Buchan about a WWI plot by the Germans to give a Mahdi figure to make them rebel?

LOL those Oiropeans! Will check it out.


Last edited by Agnimitra on 05 Apr 2013 02:11, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2013 02:10 
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Lo!! Jannat is all encompassing combining,mixing Vegas, Holywood and Bollywood for the pleasures of Lowmen. Watch the TV reality show Shahs of Sunset where the " ful ruskig flickas" keep worrying about their Iranian Nose.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2013 02:17 
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Quote:
Its not about 72 in this life. Rather, its for advertisement, as RajeshA ji pointed out. A very significant number of conversions happen via marriage. A women who is, both, hot and sexy as well as subdued and not likely to cheat is a sign from God to many who come from 'decadent' societies (or societies where one's own women are not as pretty).


Carl ji, thanks. That is indeed interesting. It is one thing to be obsessed to look pretty, it is another to show "hey we are better than you are" some kind of perverted sense of supremacy and racial in a way. So beauty is not just for home consumption, it is also for bait and switch :).


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2013 02:21 
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Also just for the record: Strict Islamists in all societies, including Iran, condemn a display of makeup, since it is associated with lack of modesty. sometimes in small-town Iran, girls will be rounded up in public buses by Basijis, just for wearing make-up. Sometimes a country girl who decides to do her eyebrows can embarrass conservative parents - 'what will people say?'

So the dichotomy is always there, and usually in greater extremes than found in other societies.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2013 03:06 
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Saudi Songwriter Alaa Wardi Sings of Lack of Opportunities for Facebook generation in the Arab world:



From the same guy:
Pehla Nasha - Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar - a capella, all sounds produced by his own voice.



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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2013 23:48 
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Uganda: What Islam says on marrying from another religion
A bridegroom adjusts the veil of his (Christian) wife during their wedding at Kibuli Mosque.
Quote:
Marriage or wedlock is a social union between spouses that establish rights and obligations between them and their children.

The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but it is principally an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged.

When defined broadly, marriage is considered as culturally universal. In many cultures, marriage is formalised by a traditional marriage or religious wedding.

Sheikh Nsereko Mutumba, the Uganda Muslim Supreme Council public relations officer, says before a Muslim thinks of marrying, he or she has to ensure that the partnerto- be is a Muslim.

“There is no provision for a Muslim man to convert to his fiancee’s religion. It is the woman who must convert to Islam,” he said. Mutumba added that because Muslims do not eat pork or drink alcohol, it is unacceptable for a Muslim to marry a woman from a religion that allows consumption of those items.

The head of the Ahmadiyya Mission in Uganda, Rauf Amir, says Islam teaches Muslims to get married to fellow Muslims.

“We should follow what our religion says. Under Islamic law, a marriage can only be considered Halal (pure) if both spouses are Muslims,” he said.

Sheikh Suleiman Kaketo, who heads the Tabliqs, shares the same view. “If a Muslim man wants to get married to a non-Muslim woman, he must convert her to Islam. It is the only way Allah will accept their marriage,” he explained.

A Moslem man may marry a non-Moslem woman as long as she is from the Ahl-e-Kitab (People of the Book) - Jew or Christian. The children will be Moslem, of course. A Moslem woman cannot marry a non-Moslem man, even if he is from the People of the Book. Lastly, in India there have been fatwas that a Moslem man can marry a Hindu woman as if she was from the People of the Book, because some Islamic scholars have concluded that Allah did reveal part of His Book to Hindus via some ancient prophet(s). Same laws apply.
----------------------------------------

Violence and Mainstream Islam
Quote:
Against the backdrop of 20,651 jihadist attacks since 9/11/2001, and the hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Dhaka, Bengladesh (hat tip Jihad Watch) on the march this past week, demanding the execution of "atheist bloggers" for "blaspheming" Islam, I was re-reading V.S. Naipaul's second brilliant travelogue account of Asian Islamdom, circa 1995, Beyond Belief...

-----------------------------------

X-posting from Islamism thread:

An example of common support for Hamas types:
'Islam not sexist'
Quote:
Our reader feels that the views expressed in the article “ I’m surrounded by assholes” doesn’t give the right perception of Hamas, which is a new rule that will see the separation of male and female students in Palestinian schools.

...

Let me explain. I am a Muslim woman. I am educated. I am currently studying a few psychology subjects. One of them is called Career psychology.

It is amazing that many of the theorists point out that "careers are constructed differently but developed the same even though men and women experience different challenges."

This is a section devoted to understanding the challenges a woman has to overcome in her career, to point out that as much as we don't say it, her journey will always be different to a man.

Now, Islam, co-incidentally supports this! We as Muslims are taught that women are different, we are delicate. Why then do we have to endure the experiences of men?

It is clear from western theorists that this is the fundamental problem in society. So why do we critique, without research, actions that are anything but sexist?

Actions that are sensitive to the needs of women!

There are many schools that separate females and males, even in South Africa. Look them up.

Tell me, why no mention of young nuns at convent school? Is that not the same principle that Hamas is practising?

Is it not the same principle that should allow young girls to receive the education specific to them, comfortably?
I must tell you, I would prefer that, I really felt uncomfortable in a mixed school, during biology discussions of the female hormonal system and organs at school.

Whilst I do not approve of Hamas, let us be fair and not misinterpret them unnecessarily.

Though this may be her opinion, it shouldn't be mixed with unsupported facts. News is factual not opinionated. :)

A significant number of well-educated Moslem women from traditional backgrounds enter the professional workforce with hijabs.


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2013 22:58 
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Harun Yahya (Turkish publisher of popular Islamist books) writes in the Huffington Post:
Islam Encourages Scientific Progress
Quote:
The word Islam conjures up a disturbing picture in the minds of some people outside the Muslim world. It is a fact that many in the West imagine Islam to be a faith far removed from modern life, closed to science and that attaches no value to a good quality of life. The first reason for this erroneous belief is that various people who claim to be Muslims in fact have views and lifestyles that fly in the face of it. However, someone looking in from the outside cannot recognize that and will be unable to evaluate matters accurately. Another important reason is associated with the first: Most people are unacquainted with the truths of Islam and the correct interpretation of the Quran. In point of fact, these people who make incorrect evaluations are not only from outside the Islamic world; many people within the Islamic world as well are unable to properly understand the Quran. The reason for the appearance of mistaken and radical views is that the Quran is not correctly understood.

The only point of reference to truly learn about Islam is the Quran but we see that some people do not interpret the Quran correctly and produce their own perverse and foolish deductions from it in order to support their own misguided and superstitious beliefs. One of the subjects most easily capable of being misinterpreted in this way is science and scientific activity.

Quote:
For a sincere Muslim, science is a blessing that God has bestowed on mankind. Islam advocates a rational approach. In many verses of the Quran, God advises people to use their intelligence. He emphasizes the need for us to think rationally and scientifically, speaking of, "...those deeply rooted in knowledge..." and "...only people of intelligence pay heed." (3:7). Another verse advises people to think about the formation of the universe: "...reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth ..." (3:191)

Use is still being made today of the work of various Muslim scientists in the past who understood that Islam encourages scientific investigation. People such as Avicenna, Farabi and Battani were among the leading scientists of the Middle Ages. Avicenna's book "The Canon of Medicine" (al-Qānūn fī al-Tibb) was used as a text book in the universities of Montpellier and Louvain until 1650. Battani's "Zij" was regarded as a most important astronomical text, and his work inspired that of Copernicus. A crater on the moon was even named after him as a mark of respect: "Albategnius." Al-Khwarizmi's work "Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing" is regarded as the first work in which the first systematic solution of linear and quadratic equations are presented. The very term "algebra" comes from "al-jabr," one of the methods for solving quadratic equations in al-Khwarizmi's book. Many other examples of contributions to scientific progress by Muslim scientists could be given.

Today, too, there are a great many scientists, academics and intellectuals who have emerged from the Islamic world and serve all mankind.

---------------------

Kind of related, in terms of the effects of Islamic preferences on the production-consumption cycle, trade, etc.:

Ireland: We could be 'calf maternity ward of EU'
Quote:
Ireland has the potential to become the "maternity ward of Europe" by increasing live exports in the coming years, one of the country's major calf exporters has claimed.

Kildare-based exporter Adam Buitelaar said the recent return of the live trade to Libya was an indicator of the major export opportunities to North Africa, as well as Europe.

Speaking at the All-Ireland State Veterinarian's Scientific Conference in Dublin on Friday, Mr Buitelaar said countries like Egypt, Lebanon, Tunisia and Morocco had huge potential for live cattle exports.

"In Ireland, we tend to have the impression that these countries are stricken by poverty, drought and famine but the reality is actually quite different.

"These countries have considerable wealth, generated through mining and oil reserves," he said.

"As wages in those countries increase, people start to get a taste for protein. This creates demand for meat and, because of their Muslim religion, they are far more likely to import livestock rather than frozen meat," Mr Buitelaar explained.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 10:18 
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The Axioms of the Ashraf Meme

Cross-posting a post by RamaY from the "Thesis: Peace unlikely in next 25 years" Thread

RamaY wrote:
Rudradev ji

Finally caught up with your peaceful post. I asked Mehdi N^3 a simple question. What was the difference between Indian and Pakistani Muslims (Ashraf or otherwise) on August 13, 1947?

Are Taliban and LET Ashraf?

Still waiting for the answer.


The Ashraf meme is not confined to India. In fact, it is to be found everywhere in the Ummah, including in Saudi Arabia.

So what are the Axioms of the Ashraf Meme?

  1. The Ashrafs source their origin from outside of the nation.

  2. Often it suffices that they have a little ancestry pointing outside the geography of the nation - a single ancestor even.

  3. The Ashrafs always consider themselves racially superior to the native.

  4. Ideological purity is posited as directly proportional to the strength of the Ashraf blood line!

  5. The Ashrafs are as such always trying to procreate with women, who are considered to be from lands with tribes having martial traditions and "physically superior traits" - white, tall, blonde, lighter colored eyes, etc. If such women can be sourced from Muslim countries, all the better, but even Western women would do, after they have been tempted into Islam.

  6. The Ashrafs feel that they are predestined to rule over the natives - Ajlafs and Kufr. The Ashrafs have as such a strong sense of entitlement.

  7. The Ashrafs often try to bind the Ajlaf with the same attitude and history, so that he looks at the Ashrafs both in awe and at the Kufr in a manufactured racial contempt. The Ajlaf seeks identification with the Ashraf even as the Ashraf tries to hold his genetic distance from him, promotes his attitude of entitlement, but binds the Ajlaf in ideological brotherhood.

  8. The Ashrafs would not want a tribe of relative Ajlafs to defeat an Ashraf tribe or a tribe led by higher Ashrafs, because that turns the Ashraf meme on its head, which says that one tribe wins over the other because of the strength of the Ashraf blood line. That means an Ajlafer nation should not win wars over Ashrafer nation (e.g. Bangladesh over Pakistan).

  9. Because the Ashraf identifies himself with an outside more purer nation tribe/nation, he will always support the interests of the outside power over those of his own, because he considers his own more Ajlafer and racially impure.

  10. Often due to this meme often the Ajlaf could be forced into more Islamic fanaticism in order to establish his credentials viz-a-viz the Ashrafs, in a way trying to gain a more powerful position in the setup. It is an internal rivalry but it often manifests through a threat to the Kufr as that is how Islamic radicalism expresses itself. This is true for converted individuals as it is true for converted tribes/nations.

So responding to whether Taliban and LeT are Ashraf, I would say the LeT certainly believe that they are Ashrafer than the Muslim converts in India, the Ajlafs. In Pakistan the Ashrafs have the power, whereas in India the Ashrafs have only power over the Muslim masses, and the country itself, India, is not considered Muslim. But in the scheme of things, LeT feels miserably Ajlaf and are trying to show their relevance through Islamic fanaticism and more importantly by trying to terrorize the Kufr, so that they too get some brownie points, but also to show the Ashrafs of India that they should continue to see Pakistanis as the higher Ashraf.

The Taliban don't recognize that the Ashraf leaders of Pakistan are more Ashraf than them. In fact the Pushtun allowed many Arabs to find sanctuary with them to improve their Ashraf quotient. Moreover the Pushtuns feel they converted to Islam earlier so they are closer to Islam. Racially speaking, no Pushtun would accept a Pakjabi's racial credentials. In fact it is because in relation to Pushtuns, the Pakjabis themselves feel more Ajlaf that they are often willing to do downhill skiing. But the non-Pushtun Ashrafs in Pakistan naturally consider themselves more Ashraf than the rest of the Pakistani masses, and funnily it is because of the caste differences. Some of these Ashrafs after coming to power have of course tried to increase their Ashraf quotient by marrying Persians, etc.

We know that the last Nizam of Hyderabad State, Osman Ali Khan, Asif Jah VII married his eldest son and heir Prince Azam Jah (1907–1970), Princess Durru Shehvar, the daughter of Caliph Abdülmecid II, the last Caliph of the Ottomans in Nice, France, on 12 November 1931. Her first cousin Princess Niloufer, was married to Prince Moazzam Jah, the second son of the Nizam.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 15:21 
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The Axioms of the Ashraf Meme

We need to psychoanalyze the Ashraf mind for in it we shall find many hidden treasures of knowledge and understanding of how Islam works, especially in the Indian Subcontinent.

First we must know that the Ashraf in the Indian Subcontinent though racially impure, still happens to be psychologically pure. Even if the Ashraf in India has only minimal racial purity with those who earlier "migrated" to India from West and Central Asia, he still considers himself as if he is a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad himself. The prophet is himself looked upon by Muslims as having the beauty of Adonis and the warrior-heart of Chengiz Khan. And basically it is in this image that the Ashraf sees himself viz-a-viz the natives, be they Ajlaf or Kufr.

What Ashraf minded do is they try to "enrich" their genetic stock by marrying the most "fair" of the women around even if they are from Kufr people, especially the Europeans for the Turks and Arabs, and Persians, Afghan and Kashmiri for the Subcontinental Muslims, who can't "afford" the European or the Turk or the Arab. With whichever stock the Ashrafs "improve" on their genetic stock, they always explain any "good looks and built" of their stock indirectly to their descent from Muhammad and secondarily to their superior ancestry from outside India - Turk, Arab, or even Persian.

So what makes up the Ashraf attitude:
  1. "Beauty",
  2. "Islamic cultural traits",
  3. "Occasional Show of Piety"
  4. "Sense of Entitlement"

Everything that gives the Ashraf his sense of superiority, he ascribes it to an origin lying outside India. But he also calls himself Indian but that is due tohis sense of entitlement in India, e.g. to define the ideological parameters of India, due to his power base - his influence over the political structures, his sway of the Ajlaf masses, and his popularity as a beauty icon.

So even as an Ashraf sucks on India to nourish himself, he continues to identify himself with an out-of-India origin.

The same thing one would find in Pakistan also.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 15:46 
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The Axioms of the Ashraf Meme


The Pakistanis have a little problem. They want to feel racially superior to India and they don't really miss a single chance to, according to them, "rub it in". In fact they don't wish to consider themselves as being part of the Indian genetic stock, so they have even tried to posit that they were a different stock because Pakistan was always a land of immigration from the West and the North. The overemphasize the genetic footprint of manufactured Aryans, Huns, Sakas, Greeks, Arabs, Turks, etc.

Internally they themselves base their superiority to other Pakistanis to their "higher Hindu caste" but they hate themselves too for it, because that makes them an Indian extension, but the caste, the Jāti is strongly embedded in society.

There is also a need for Pakistanis to embrace Nazariya-e-Pakistan, and for that they need egalitarian Islam, and so they have difficulty portraying ALL Pakistanis as racially different from Indians, as they have a substantial Mohajir element in Pakistan as well, which makes racial-homogeneity rhetoric difficult to hold up. Then the Pakjabis also have Jāti affiliation with many Jātis from Indian Punjab. That makes the racial superiority rhetoric again difficult to sell.

So basically for Pakistan to sell the manufactured history that they are a people separate from the rest of Indians is proving difficult though the effort is constantly on. They try to do so by being specific about allowing only images of well to do Pakistanis who have a certain "fairness" to them and hiding all darker Pakistanis from media view. But this works only marginally.

Because the Pakjabis have difficulty in asserting an Ashrafness about them due to them being looked upon as a continuation of the Indian genetic stock, the elite does not have an automatic immunity from attacks by those who consider themselves more Ashraf. The Afghans consider themselves more Ashraf and do not accept the entitlement of Pakjabis, but because of power differential they too find it difficult to assert this Ashrafness.

Pushtun Talibanism in Pakistan is basically a movement to reject Pakjabi Ashrafness, their sense of entitlement. The Pakjabis are acutely aware of this, and that is why they try so hard to sell their racial separateness and racial superiority crap viz-a-viz Indians, though not successfully.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 16:07 
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The Axioms of the Ashraf Meme

Just as Pushtun Talibanism is questioning Pakjabi Ashrafness, their sense of entitlement, so too is Islamism in the Indian Subcontinent also has an Asharaf origin.

Pakistanis today stand between Islamism and Ashrafism. The Pushtun Taliban are hitting the Pakjabis hard for daring to propose their ascendancy in Pakistan, especially as they lack a convincing Ashraf background. The Pushtun Taliban are in fact punishing the Pakjabis for asserting entitlement even though they are "nothing more" than Indians.

The Paki Jihad against India is a way for Pakjabis to compensate this lack of Ashraf credentials. This is the only way a non-Ashraf can gain respect in the Islamic hierarchy - by showing himself as the sword arm of Islam, the sword against the Kufr. The converts, the Ajlafs, are recognized by the Ummah's martial races as worthy of respect, as worthy of receiving their daughters, only if the Ajlafs can raise themselves to the level of Ashrafs through their dedication to Islam. This can happen only if the Ajlaf hits the Kufr in the name of Islam.

This is what the Pakis try to do, through LeT and other groups. In order to convince the Ashrafer Pushtuns that their (Pakjabi) Ashrafness is not any less they stage such terrorist acts like Mumbai 26/11. The whole Pakistani hostile posture towards India can also be looked from this Ashrafness Prism of Pakjabi sense of inferiority towards other Muslims - Arabs, Turks, Persians, Afghans. The Pakjabis have a difficult time getting rid of their Ajlafness.

Until the Pakjabis prove themselves, they will get no Ashraf women from the Martial Muslim Races - Turks, Arabs, Persians, and until they get that there will be no increase in their Ashrafness keeping them at the bottom of the dung heap.

One must know that Ashrafness is really relative. Even the Persians are scorned by the Azeris for their lack of Ashrafness, which explains to some extent why an Azeri, Ayotallha Khamenei is ruling over a Persian majority.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 16:36 
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The Axioms of the Ashraf Meme

The Ashrafness among various Muslim elite groups in the Subcontinent differs and one can see this. The Pushtuns are considered the most Ashraf. Then come the Pakjabis. Then come the Sindhis. Then come the Gangetic-Yamuna Tehzeeb Muslims. Then come the Bangladeshis. As we move from the West to East, the Ashrafness decreases.

Each elite would show some contempt for the less Ashraf one and often ridicule the other for being less Ashraf, as it is imagined that the ones to the West are genetically closer to the Turks, the Arabs and the Persians. This is a purely Muslim elite thing.

At the lower end however there is always the Ajlaf, the native convert, who is simply to serve the Ashraf and be his foot-soldier, so that the Ashraf can assert his strength. These are not really part of the general Ashrafness sweepstakes.

However the Ashraf does look at his Ajlaf masses and can conclude that they are racially better than the Ajlaf masses living in the East and from this he projects the genetic trickle down theory and thinks that his Ajlaf masses must have received some more Ashraf genetic material than the Ajlaf masses due East, thus creating a notion of Ashrafness superiority between his Ajlafs and those in the East.

As such one would see a general tribal Ashrafness superiority claim over the Muslims living due East. In 1971 the Pakistanis proved their Ashrafness over the Bengali Muslims and were it not for India, the Pakis would have taught the Bengalis a good Ashrafness lesson.

Generally the Pakistanis would never really apologize for what they did in East Pakistan (Bangladesh) simply because that goes against their Ashrafness Claim. The more Ashraf have a right to kick a less Ashraf's butt. The Ashraf does this to his Ajlaf all the time. Similarly the Pushtun are kicking Pakjabi butt because it is less Ashraf, and the Pakjabi too is tolerating the pain as best as he can.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 08:22 
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This particular show on RawalTV starts with a disclaimer that is displayed for a long time - "the opinions expressed are not those of RawalTV", etc.

This discussion is in the aftermath of three Canadian Moslem youth were found as the dead perps of a massive explosion in Africa. One youth was Arab-Canadian, the other two were white and Korean-Canadian converts.

Munir Saami on Islamic Radicalization in Bilatakalluf with Tahir Gora Ep88



Saami starts off by directly admitting that Islamist radicals are now freely using Canada as a playground and laboratory for their activities, and that their activities has spread far and wide and engulfed a greater part of the Moslem youth.

He further elaborates on examples of widespread taqiyyah (dissimulation) in the Moslem community in Canada and western countries. He says that even the Arabic translators employed by those governments don't really translate and explain things right to their employers. Etc.

Because this is a bhanda-phod interview, RawalTV has done a CYA disclaimer at the beginning.

This is a rather honest admission of the extent of the cancer of malignant intentions towards non-Moslems in Islamic society - including Islamic communities settled in the West and other non-Moslem countries. I hope its not too late for a general awakening of hearts, of conscience and sanity in Moslem youth. Otherwise they are sliding into inevitable provocation and violent collision with non-Moslems.


Last edited by Agnimitra on 16 Apr 2013 00:23, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 14:38 
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Tribalism: Islam viz-a-viz Hindu

Here is a hypothesis:

For a moment, let's suppose that in Hindu society there were no birth-based Varnic social divisions, but only Jāti divisions, which means that ideologically Hindu society were egalitarian from the religious perspective and there was a mobility among the various Jātis to rise (and fall). In fact this would have been a much more competitive and robust social structure, though also only formally egalitarian but not operationally egalitarian, but that is on tangent here.

In that case I propose that Islamic society and Hindu society structurally would have been the similar, EXCEPT for the currency of social ascent.

In Sanatan Dharma, the currency is
  • Sajjanta,
  • Jñāna,
  • Raj-Dharma Palan,
  • Dhan Vridhi,
  • Parishram, etc.


In Islam, the currency is imperialism and conquering of
  • Mind Space - Display of Islamic Psychological Dominance over the Kufr (terrorism, killing, robbery, rape, blackmail, jizya, bullying, even victimization, which demands apology, etc.), and Increasing Allegiance Level to the cult, i.e. piety, purity, brotherhood, networking, security, etc.
  • Human Resources Space - Conversion of the Kufr (thus increasing the followership of the Muhammadan cult, Islam), Demographic Explosive Growth (migration, higher fertility rate)
  • Geographical Space - Conquering the land for the Ummah, making it Dar-ul Islam, and quiet increase in strength if a minority (ink-drop, demographic expansion, weapons, resources, etc.)
.

Now why do I try to focus on structural similarity between Hindu Samaj and Islamic Society? Because there is a tribalism in both and the driving motive of tribal society in general is the same - recognition, prosperity and power for one's genealogical line.

The ideological currency for tribal upliftment however decides how over several generations one's genealogical line gathers power - allegiance of others to one's person, money, land, women, fear! Of course this churning always remains, and just as one speaks of increasing the economic pie so that all get a chance to have more prosperity, similarly the effort in Islam is to increase the Islamic Pie of influence so that the Ashraf Islamic genealogical lines have more power - more Ajlafs at one's beck and call, more land, more money, more concubines, etc.

The common denominator however is that genealogical lines whether among Hindus or Ashrafs want that they and their progeny have a high standing in society and prosperity to enjoy their lives. There are of course some who sacrifice their comfort, but that too is to ensure that their genealogical line further down in the future can continue to enjoy these privileges, and even those who "sacrifice" their comfort, still retain a very high standing in society for themselves.

But from here onwards, the society changes because the currency for gaining social recognition and upliftment is different and thus the society works differently.

What one can take from this discussion is however that in Islam, tribalism is strong and Islam is there only to provide a currency according to which social movement can take place.

One would notice how fastidious and meticulous the Ashrafs are in keeping records of their genealogical trees and the services their ancestors have provided to the cause of Islam.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 14:39 
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Earning Islamic Capital

Past services rendered by one's ancestors to Islam is Islamic capital that does get spent after some time, and as such one way to stop this Islamic capital being spent is to ensconce one's progeny in an Islamic order, say Darul Uloom Deoband, etc. These Pirzadas continue a hereditary Islamic order.

TTP movement is an effort to overthrow the exhausted Pakjabi Ajlafi Elite order (converted Muslim Rajputs, Brahmins, Gurjars, etc.) whose ancestors may have served various Mughals and even Afghan warlords and thus may have received some Islamic capital and to deny them their current privileges as recognition by Muslims for their contribution to Islam seems to have petered out. Similarly Punjabi Taliban is also a movement which is telling the Pakjabi ruling class that their Islamic capital has run out.

Since there are hardly any more Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan, the usual way of earning Islamic capital is also not available. That is also the reason why the Pakjabis cannot make peace with India or let go of Kashmir, and they are busy sending LeT terrorists to India - to earn Islamic capital in the eyes of the more Islamically motivated Taliban, who are mostly Pushtun but now the lower Ajlafs in Pakjab itself have taken up Talibanism and are similarly willing to question the ruling Pakistani elite about their spent Islamic capital challenging them to either earn more or to let them take over.

At the moment the Taliban are busy earning their Islamic capital through reconquering geographical space in Afghanistan and increasing the allegiance level of their ranks to Islam through piety and purity. The Pakjabis however have had to put Kashmir on the back-burner and their LeT operations have caused India some taqleef. If the Pakjabis were able to pull India into a limited war, which they can sell as a victory, they may earn some brownie Islamic points. Musharraf tried in Kargil but was sent home in ignominy.

So the tribal rivalries and competition is Islamic societies is fought through the medium of Islamic currency and one wins based on how much Islamic capital one has earned.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 15:37 
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Earning Islamic Capital

Islamism itself is a reaction to the Ashraf hold on power and an effort to realign power to Islamic capital earned. Hyperinflation actually means that there is untold terrorism from Islamists onto the Kufr, because one would have to earn more currency for it to have the same value, for one's Islamic deeds to be recognized as worthy of transferring more power to the individual or the tribe. Islamism is a means to earn Islamic capital by those who as yet do not have any or by those who wish to retain what they have.

That is also one reason why one sees Muslim youth in the West, who have generally had a secular upbringing turn radical, because they have as yet no Islamic capital.

As long as the currency used is piety, it does not hurt the Kufr, but under Islam, it is easy to try to earn Islamic currency in other ways, and if it is through showing dominance through means of conquering mind, human or geographic space belonging to the Kufr, then it does become a problem for Kufr.

In India one sees many Indian Muslims who are very pious, very orthodox. That in fact is creation of Islamic capital which harms the Kufr, the Hindus, much less, than when Muslims receive secular education and are brought up in a more liberal environment, because then these Muslims have no Islamic capital and the chances for them to turn radical are much higher. So those pleading for more secular education for the Muslim youth need to keep this into consideration.

It doesn't mean that all Muslims receiving secular education would turn radical. As long as the Muslim is not confronted with the pressures of Islamic society, and remains integrated in Kufr society, he would of course remain "a productive member of the Kufr society", but it is easy to get disillusioned considering the many ills that also affect Kufr society, and then there is no telling how radical the Muslim may turn once he discovers the mosque and introspection tells him how little Islamic capital he possesses.

In such a situation, the probability is high that the "introspecting" Muslim would shift the blame for his lack of Islamic capital onto the Kufr society of which he had been a part, and act vengefully towards it. Moreover the orthodox pious Muslim society has often been the preserve of the poor Ajlaf Muslims, and in his drive to earn Islamic capital quickly as well as his tendency to look at Islam more intellectually rather than spiritually or mystically, being educated and deracinated, the chances are also high that he would decide for the radical political Islam - hard Islamism, rather than simply piety.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 16:13 
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Earning Islamic Capital: Hyperinflation in Pakistan

What we are seeing in Pakistan is actually Hyperinflation of Islamic currency. One is needing to earn more and more Islamic currency for it to have the same social worth.

The lack of much Kufr in Pakistan has also caused the channels of earning Islamic capital to turn inwards, i.e. to use the Purity Industry.

Piety as a channel is one way of earning Islamic capital, but the competition has become so high that piety itself does not suffice, and Pakistani society has thus has no other alternative than to turn to the Purity Industry, which naturally means that one sect in Islam would be considered Pure and all other sects would have to accept its domination and convert to it.

This would allow the leaders of Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar e-Jhangvi to claim having earned the most Islamic capital and put them on top.

Hizbul Mujahideen and other Pakistani-sponsored Tanzeems targeting Jammu & Kashmir have of course had a different "business model" for earning Islamic capital but they haven't been able to earn much lately. Lashkar e-Taiba has increased its sphere of operations and it too has only been moderately successful, which means that Pakjabi model of earning Islamic capital directed at the Kufr by hurting India, has had very little success, which has also brought it into the cross-hairs of other competitive companies like the "Bad Taliban".

The Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar e-Jhangvi are Islamic business models supported by the Pakjabi establishment which are needed to keep these stakeholders above water, without needing to claim Islamic bankruptcy in which case Pakistani Army's human assets would need to be auctioned off to various tanzeems and the leadership would lose out completely.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 17:15 
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Earning Islamic Capital: Secularism and Recession

What Secularism tries to do in Islamic societies or to Islamic societies is to cause Recession, where the demand for social recognition and upliftment in an Islamic society is tried to be curtailed. Secularism tries to set up demand for other goods - education, jobs, consumption, peaceful interaction with the Kufr, etc. instead.

However Secularism is generally an effort at the political-social interface - education, administration, public services, trade, multi-cultural society, etc. but it stops its intervention at the community's social level. At the social level, the currency still remains Islam, and thus in any interaction, any individual possessing secular currency - education, job, prosperity, social service is still not recognized as worthy of respect and the person's status remains low. The social service such as a medical practitioner may be recognized as it may have some overlap with Islamic currency.

As secularism does not try to revoke the use of Islamic currency at the social level, it is really ineffective as a tool to cause a durable recession in Islamic society. In fact it can cause a reaction rather against secularism. So secularism can never work in an Islamic society, which has a complete different set of goods which cannot be bought using secularism.

In India however secularism is never used to impose a different currency on Islam. That is why there is hardly any effort by the state or the Muslim leadership to increase education, jobs, consumption, interaction with the Kufr, etc. among the Indian Muslims. The Islamic currency for social recognition retains its preeminence. The lack of secular goods in fact is used by the Muslim community to earn more Islamic capital through the use of victimization rhetoric, requiring Hindus to feel responsible and sorry.

In fact the non-implementation of secularism for Indian Muslim society benefits both the Kufr to some extent as well as the Islamic power-brokers in India, because it keeps the society stable. There is social recognition based on certain channels of earning Islamic capital, namely piety, but social upliftment is completely taken out, which would have caused upheaval in the Muslim society in India. Through non-use of secularist currency among Muslims, the Hindu-majority state does not challenge the validity Islamic currency, and through the suppression of social upliftment according to Islamic currency, which would have caused competitive Islamism, the traditional Muslim power-brokers do not challenge the Hindu majority.

However it is a tenuous balance.

Competitive Islamism can however break out any time and there is plenty of potential in India for earning Islamic capital as there is a billion plus population of Kufr on whom domination operations can be applied. This urge is however being kept in check because of the danger of a reaction from the Kufr whose majority still seems formidable. So the ethnic cleansing that took place in Pakistan say at the time of Partition is a policy which cannot be adopted in India at the moment due to strength differential, even though the likes of Owaisi seem to think that the time is approaching when it should be possible.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 18:09 
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Ashraf Networks

As we know real Ashrafs DO NOT identify either with the interests of any Subcontinental country nor with its people - Ajlaf or Kufr. Ashrafs identify themselves with their genealogical lines which originate in Arab countries, Turk tribes and Persian people, all who have done their service for Islam, which has often included many atrocities on the Kufr.

It is this network of Ashrafs spread out throughout the Indian Subcontinent which plays an important role in ensuring that the Islamic interests of Gulf Arabs, Turks and Iran are protected in the Indian Subcontinent. These Ashrafs receive support from these power centers outside the Indian Subcontinent but of course also from the large masses of Ajlafs they keep as resources at their beck and call.

Of course two of their most important contributions to Ummah are
  1. to ensure that the Ajlafs of the land remain chained to Islam and thus to a collective allegiance to an Arab/Turk/Persian controlled brotherhood.
  2. to bring the land through an effective strategy into the Ummah as a junior partner.

This Ashraf Network is also one that is nurtured with care by all the Ashrafs who marry across the borders and remain in contact.

Islamism which is sort of a communist revolution against the bourgeoisie, the Ashrafs, is however itself often headed and driven by Ashrafs and financed by their "relatives" in the Gulf, Turkey (Gulenists) and Iran. As yet Islamism when directed at other Muslims seem to be mostly directed at Ajlaf Elite and not the Ashrafs themselves, but Islamism does put pressure on the Ajlaf Elite to keep earning Islamic capital.

Islamism can however hurt Ashraf interests too if it goes into the hands of Ajlafs completely and becomes independent of Gulf money. It is unclear really if Pakistani Taliban are hurting the interests of only Ajlaf Elite or also those of Ashrafs, but basically Islamism can hurt Ashraf genealogical lines in the Indian Subcontinent if they lose control over it.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 19:54 
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Human Biology 2005 Jun;77(3):343-53.

Gene diversity in some Muslim populations of North India.
Authors: S. Shabana Aarzoo, Mohammad Afzal

Section of Genetics, Department of Zoology, Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh (Uttar Pradesh) 202002, India.

Abstract
North Indian Muslim populations have historical, linguistic, and socioreligious significance to the Indian subcontinent. Although sociocultural and political dimensions of their demography are well documented, no detailed genetic structure of the populations is available. We have undertaken a survey of the gene frequencies of the ABO, Rh, PTC taste ability, sickling, and G6PD systems for different endogamous groups: Sheikh, Syed, Pathan, Ansari, Saifi, and Hindu Bania. All the groups at most loci showed statistically nonsignificant differences, except for ABO and PTC traits, for which interpopulational differences were seen. Heterozygosity ranged from 0.048 to 0.617 among the Sheikh, 0.149 to 0.599 among the Pathan, 0.105 to 0.585 among the Ansari, 0.25 to 0.869 among the Syed, 0.107 to 0.565 among the Saifi, and 0.100 to 0.492 among the Hindu Bania. The average D(ST) and G(ST) values for the five marker loci were 0.0625 +/- 0.098 and 0.1072 +/- 0.041, respectively. A dendrogram was constructed using the UPGMA clustering method. Our results revealed that the Pathan and the Sheikh form one cluster, the Syed and the Hindu Bania form another cluster, and the two clusters join together (the so-called higher caste); also, the Saifi and the Ansari form a separate cluster (lower caste). The results of the genetic distance analysis are useful for understanding the pattern of genetic relationships between different endogamous groups of Muslims.


Human Genetics 2006 November; 120(4): 543–551.

A Shared Y-chromosomal Heritage between Muslims and Hindus in India
Authors: Ramana Gutala¹, Denise R. Carvalho-Silva², Li Jin³, Bryndis Yngvadottir², Vasanthi Avadhanula⁴, Khaja Nanne⁴, Lalji Singh⁵, Ranajit Chakraborty³, and Chris Tyler-Smith²

¹ Department of Medicine, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, USA
² The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, Hinxton, UK
³ Center for Genome information, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, USA
⁴ Deccan College of Medical Sciences, Hyderabad, India
⁵ Center for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad, India


Abstract
Arab forces conquered the Indus Delta region in 711 A.D. and, although a Muslim state was established there, their influence was barely felt in the rest of South Asia at that time. By the end of the tenth century, Central Asian Muslims moved into India from the northwest and expanded throughout the subcontinent. Muslim communities are now the largest minority religion in India, comprising more than 138 million people in a predominantly Hindu population of over one billion. It is unclear whether the Muslim expansion in India was a purely cultural phenomenon or had a genetic impact on the local population. To address this question from a male perspective, we typed eight microsatellite loci and 16 binary markers from the Y chromosome in 246 Muslims from Andhra Pradesh, and compared them to published data on 4,204 males from China, Central Asia, other parts of India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Iran, the Middle East, Turkey, Egypt and Morocco. We find that the Muslim populations in general are genetically closer to their non-Muslim geographical neighbors than to other Muslims in India, and that there is a highly significant correlation between genetics and geography (but not religion). Our findings indicate that, despite the documented practice of marriage between Muslim men and Hindu women, Islamization in India did not involve large-scale replacement of Hindu Y chromosomes. The Muslim expansion in India was predominantly a cultural change and was not accompanied by significant gene flow, as seen in other places, such as China and Central Asia.


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 22:35 
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http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/ ... onth-wives
Muslim Men Travel To India For Sex With 'One Month Wives'

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Advocates for Muslim women's rights say that Muslim men from the Middle East and Africa are traveling to Hyderabad, India, to buy young and underage "one month wives" for sex in a bizarre sex trafficking ring.Government-appointed Muslim priests (Qazis) and the families themselves are pimping out the girls to wealthy foreign sex tourists, reports The Telegraph.One 17-year-old victim, Nausheen Tobassum, escaped from her home last month after her parents allegedly pressured her to have sex with a Sudanese middle-aged man, who had paid about $1,800 for her to be his "wife" for one month.Tobassum left her parents' home and flagged down the police, who arrested the groom, victim's aunt and the Qazi, and issued a warrant for the parents' arrest."I didn't know what was happening and I agreed in ignorance," said Tobassum. "They forced me. They changed my date of birth certificate and made a fake one, where I was shown as 24 years old. They exploit girls and that's why I went to police. I had to show courage to go to police against my parents. I don't want to go back to my home, I am scared.""If a Sudanese wants to have sex, he has to pay three times more [in Sudan] because there are far fewer girls there, or he takes a second wife," said Police Inspector Vijay Kumar. "In India the girls are coming for a cheaper rate and they are beautiful. Even if they are only staying for a few days they are doing this kind of illegal marriages for sex."


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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2013 01:55 
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Is there a disconnect between Islam and organ transplantation in Egypt?
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For the last three decades, Egypt has been procrastinating over introducing an official national organ transplant law, citing conflicts between Islam and science as the main reason for stalling.


The fact that the Pakistan Army has been harvesting organs from the Baluchi prisoners they murder indicates that they don't consider the Baluchis deserving of Islamic etiquette.


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2013 14:05 
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Ashrafism

Cross-posting from the "The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition" Thread

Carl wrote:
^^ I have reservations about how this "Ashrafism" concept is used and Subbu Swami's defining "apna" based on who considers their ancestors Hindu.

Need to make ideological affinity more important than who's ancestors where what. Middle Easterners who defect to Indian idea become apna, Hindu-putra who defects to something else becomes paraya. Learn from Sikhi.

"Ashrafism" concept should be used only to counter Aryan-Dravidian tactics.


Carl ji,

this is how I see it.

Ajlafism is akin to Bharatiya feeling among Indian Muslims.

Now I suppose this is all under construction so it would take time, but the general intention should be that it takes root and one can start that now. In Malaysia one has the concept of Bhumiputra, under which of course mostly Malay Muslims get classified, and Chinese and Indians are left out.

I've tried to specify the behavior pattern among Ashrafs, the Ashraf memes as far as I could (in multiple consecutive posts).

So is Ashrafism an ideology?
  1. It is Arabic/Turkish/Persian genealogical supremacism among Subcontinental Muslims, often among Ashrafs.
  2. It is like Zionism, with the exception that it is turned on its head - instead of a people wishing to establish their dominion over what they consider their holy lands, Ashrafism is all about establishing the dominion of the holy land over all other lands.
  3. It is imperialism of the Muslim Master Races over the Ajlafs and Kufr in the Indian Subcontinent.

Among Ashrafs, Ashrafism is an ideology. Among Ajlafs, Ashrafism is an affliction.

Just like among the Europeans, Western Universalism is an ideology, but among Indian Macaulayites, Western Universalism is an affliction.

Now if there is an Ashraf in India, chances are good that he would believe in Ashrafism. If he doesn't then he would have to make that perfectly clear and not seek entitlement in India. Otherwise one would have to take it that Mr. Ashraf is indeed an Ashrafist, in which case others would have to disabuse him of his sense of entitlements.

In case an Ajlaf however looks as if he suffers from Ashrafism, then again one would have to sideline him from any positions of authority and influence as his presence would be "against Ajlaf interests".


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2013 14:12 
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Cross-posting a post by Varoon Shekhar from the "Indian Interests" Thread

Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Another wonderful article from Tarek Fatah, in the Toronto Sun. Here is a Pakistan origin writer, speaking plain truth. It's also good publicity for India, in the minds of the lay readers. It shows India to be an open, democratic society.


Published on Apr 17, 2013
By Tarek Fatah
At the eye of the storm — again: Toronto Sun

Quote:
The university refused to elaborate on the ‘unavoidable reasons’ that led to the cancellation of my talk with students

I am in India doing research for my next book, Jinnah’s Orphans, the story of how a single man left a permanent scar on India’s face and seriously damaged the psyche of a people. And as I write this sitting in the Taj Mahal Palace in Mumbai, the very place where Pakistani terrorists committed mass murder in the name of Islam in 2008 — I have managed to embroil myself in a controversy over free speech and the rise of Islamism in India.

India is the birthplace of my Muslim parents, their grandparents and generations before them who, by the the mid 1800s, converted from Hinduism to Islam.

In my desire to get a sense of how Indian Muslim youth see the future and to know where they stand on the rise of radical Islamism across the world, I had requested my hosts arrange a visit to the prestigious Jamia Milli Islamia Univesity (JMI) in New Delhi. JMI is headed by Najib Jung, one of India’s most enlightened Muslims, a leading figure in the community and well respected for his progressive outlook.

JMI agreed to my talk, but merely hours before the event on April 11, the university sent out a cryptic press release stating: “An interactive session with Mr. Tarek Fatah, a Canadian writer and broadcaster and a secular Muslim activist has been CANCELLED due to some unavoidable reasons.”

The university refused to elaborate on the “unavoidable reasons” that led to the cancellation of the event.

It didn’t take long before I discovered it came as a result of a handful of Islamist youth who had threatened to disrupt the event. They created a situation where university administrators were coaxed into shutting down the event instead of risking a flare up on campus.

Soon the news of this cancellation hit India’s most prominent media outlets, and now the issue has taken on a life of its own.

If there is anything to be learned from this is that what is needed today is a robust challenge to not just terrorism, but the ideology of Islamism. The Islamist addiction to self-imposed victimhood must also be exposed. This does not happen in India (or even in Canada) where vote bank politics trumps the truth.

One rare example of straight talk came from the man who just might scrape through to become India’s next prime minister.

In January 2010, a group of students at the Aligarh Muslim University aired the sense of Muslim victimhood when they heckled Rahul Gandhi, demanding to know “Why has India not had a Muslim prime minister?”

While the question by the Muslim students was rhetorical, Rahul Gandhi’s answer was refreshingly bereft of political correctness or vote-bank pandering. The young MP who most likely will lead the Congress into India’s next general elections in 2014, shot back at the students: “Can you name five young Muslim leaders?”

What India’s current flock of Islamic leaders do best is cajole the majority into what is referred to as a ‘Hindu guilt’.

The same happens in the U.S. and Canada where it is ‘White liberal guilt’ that precludes any challenge to Islamist ideology.

What has been observed of the Muslim leadhership in India can be described as spoiled brats. This attitude erupted last week when India’s national TV broadcaster, DDR, aired a recipe that contained pork on a cooking program. All hell broke loose with Muslim leaders claiming offence and demanding an apology. These are the same leaders who slaughter cows regularly in a country where most people consider cows sacred.

Maybe I shouldn’t have said that — I probably just got into trouble again.


The question is why was this Ajlaf stopped from the interactive session at the Jamia Milli Islamia University?

  1. Islamism?
  2. Ashrafism (ideology)?
  3. Ashrafism (affliction)?
  4. Pakistani Interests in India?


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2013 23:28 
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Cheshm e bad door!

Saudi Arabia Reportedly Deports Men for Being ‘Too Handsome’
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It’s a good problem to have, but it’s still a problem for three men who have reportedly been deported from Saudi Arabia for being “too handsome.”

The men were visiting Saudi Arabia from the United Arab Emirates to attend the annual Jenadrivah Heritage & Cultural Festival in Riyadh. They were apparently minding their own business when members of Saudi Arabia’s religion police entered the pavilion and forcibly removed them from the festival. Their offense? They were considered “too handsome” to stay for fear that women would find them irresistible, according to the Arabic-language newspaper Elaph.

“A festival official said the three Emiratis were taken out on the grounds they are too handsome and that the Commission [for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vices] members feared female visitors could fall for them,” Elaph reported this week, as quoted on the website Arabian Business. The Emirati men were subsequently deported to Abu Dhabi. In Saudi Arabia women are largely prohibited from interacting with unrelated males.

After the incident, the UAE released an official statement indicating that the religious police may have been on high alert due to the unplanned (and, we assume, unnerving) presence of an unnamed female artist, reported the Telegraph. It’s unclear whether the men were evicted in relation to that incident, however.

In Islamic culture, women are also said to naturally go out of control by the handsomeness of a man. As an example, the Qur'an recounts the old Hebrew story of the Prophet Joseph (Yusuf) of Egypt, whom Allah gave half of all beauty. When Joseph was a servant at the palace of an Egyptian noble, his wife (named Zuleikha in the Qur'an) lusted uncontrollably after Joseph. When the chatteratti started talking about this, she decided to show them her situation. She invited all the noblewomen to a soiree, and served them each a fruit and a knife to cut it. As they were gossipping and peeling the fruits, she had Joseph walk into the room to serve her a fruit and knife, all decked up in a regal servant's robes. It is said that all the women were so captivated by his handsomeness that the room fell silent and all the women without exception cut their own hands with the knives they were holding. Thus Zuleikha proved her extenuating circumstances.

A few years ago, Iranian filmmakers produced a teleseries on the story of Yusuf, dubbed into other languages as well. If you check it on Youtube, Moslem women viewers -- especially from Pakistan -- shout out their infatuation for the Irani actor playing Yusuf in capitals letters, and their intense wish to marry him.

About pre-Islamic Arabia, the Arabs have a saying that just as Romans had a great lust for wealth, Persians for power, etc., Arab men and women exceed all others in the madness of their romantic lust.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013 06:54 
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Re: the "vande mataram" nakhras -

Paki expat author speaks of the psychological correspondence between "father-mother-son" triangle and the "god-motherland-self" triangle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvnNaP78GnI

Has other tidbits about the identity conflict for Pakis between ME and India.

Note that Pakis - including those who claim to show "respect" for Hinduism - usually call it a "zameeni" (Earthly) religion, while only the Abrahamic religions speak of an "aasmaani" (Heavenly) religion. So their philosophers try to model the opposition between Abrahamic and Indic memes according to the Qur'anic concept of "samaawaat wal ardh" (heaven and earth).


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013 22:41 
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Blogged some material to give a closer look at the sutures that bind the two halves of Islamism. Usually the inner schism is depicted as "Sunni-Shi'a", but actually its more subtle.

Owais and Owaisi: Two halves of Jarasandha
Quote:
What is the traces of bifurcation here? The obvious one is well-known: 'Ali, the Prophet's son-in-law and father of his grandsons, had claimed the mantle of, both, spiritual and temporal leadership. But the other senior Companions (who were also related to the Prophet, having given their daughters in marriage to him) claimed that they had the senior right to political leadership. Indeed, some of the later founders of the Sunni schools of jurisprudence said that in terms of fadheelat (excellence of virtue), the order of precedence puts Abu Bakr at the highest, Omar second, Osman third, and 'Ali fourth; but 'Ali was first in a separate spiritual category all by himself. Thus, according to this line of thought in the dominant school of Islam, the legacy of the Prophet could be split into two parts, and they were given to two different spiritual lineages connected to him by family ties.

But there is a further, more interesting, and more subtle trace of bifurcation: Much to the consternation of all present, before passing away the Prophet actually bestowed his cloak on a completely different person with no family relationship - Owais al-Qarani, a camel-herder and a saintly personage in Yemen who had never met the Prophet in person, but was supposedly in communion with him telepathically. Not only did Owais have no tribal or family relation with the Prophet, he is not even considered a Companion by any Sunni school, since a Companion must by definition have been in the physical association of the Prophet and/or have served in the association of other Companions at least once. We will come back to Owais again later in this post.

Quote:
The Vedas and most of its branches comprising Hinduism, Sikhism, etc. do speak of a spiritual potency that must go hand-in-hand with temporal strength. This is the basis of the purushaarthas, of the twin swords of miri and piri. But in which forge they are conceived and in whose hands these two swords become one...can make a world of difference. Conceived one way, a Dharmic context will contain and manage the dogmatic evolution and/or caste-order, and keep existing schools as mere portals to the ever-flowing stream of Dharma. But conceived another way, an Adharmic context will keep causing a series of convulsions to justify its dogma and/or collectivized caste-order, and it can be contained (or better annihilated) only by an outside force.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013 23:18 
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^^^ Related to the post above:
What is Islamic About Islamic Ethics?
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What is ethics? Is it just another term for morals? Is it universal and if so, what is Islamic about Islamic ethics?

...

The answer is summed up again in pithy statement by the master of eloquence. The Prophet defines the sole objective of his mission when he says:

"I was only sent to complete and perfect good ethical character." (Muslim)

From this statement, it is evident that ethical principles predate Islam. Islam’s contribution, then, is expanding and perfecting these ethics. This contribution is grounded in the particularity of Islam’s conceptualization of human nature, human role (khalifah – vicegerent) and the purpose of creation to recognize and acknowledging tawhid (unicity of God).

The role of the human as a worshiping servant of the Creator and as His vicegerent on earth, and all that this two-fold relation entails expand ethics while also anchoring and binding it.

-----------

A common obsession:
Does the Apocalypse Exist in Islam?
Quote:
Muslims hold very specific beliefs about what will happen during the Apocalypse. The end of the world is known as the Hour in Islam, and Quranic writing spells out very specific information about it. Jesus, or Isa in Islam, plays an essential role in the period before the Hour occurs, since he will rule the world before its final end.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013 23:18 
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Are Ghazis and Jihadis the same?

Or are they cousins?


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2013 23:22 
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AbhiJ wrote:
Are Ghazis and Jihadis the same?

Or are they cousins?


I would say Ghazis are one's one seek domination over the Kufr - their lands, their women, their treasure, etc. Jihadis are those who fight against the Kufr should the Kufr not be pleased by all the intimidation and decide to push back.


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http://storify.com/Purple_Truth/sunil-tripathi-and-lies


Sunil Tripathi & Lies

How Seculars & Libtards were salivating on Sunil tripathi name was suspected in Boston Bombings. On this day of Raam navami - This became false & Secularists get exposed.


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2013 02:33 
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Cartesian Algebra

Continuing from "Vested Interests in India for Giving In to Pak Blackmail" Thread

RamaY wrote:
shiv wrote:
The curious thing here is that both the suspicious Hindu reaction and the Mullah reaction are similar. The reaction is based on Quranic/Islamic awareness and does not take into consideration the possibility of free will and desire on the part of the Muslim who is behaving secular.


The above curious behavior comes from the following
1. Secularism is an idiotic construct, if it is understood as defined in the example given. If a person becomes secular based on what/where/how one eats and dresses up, then I only pity the people who build a national constitution based on such "secularism".

2. The Hindu doesn't know when/where/how/for-what the Islam in the "secular" muslim wakes up. Will it wake up when the individual want to marry 2nd women or to divorce his 4th wife, or when some one in a corner of Afghanistan burns Quran or a christian/communist in denmark makes a cartoon of Muhammed or when a Hindu girl in Pakistan/Afghanistan does not wear burkha or when Govt of India goes to recapture PoK or when he burns and insults Amar Jawan memorial when Bangladeshi muslims are conflicting with Burma and so on.

The response of Mullahs is something between the Muslim, his Mullah and Muhammed. It has nothing to do either with the Hindu or Secularism (however idiotic it is).


RamaY ji,

consider Islamic Society to be a 2-D Cartesian Coordinate System.

The X-Axis determines the extent of spiritual embrace of Islam by the individual. On the +ve axis you have Islamic purity, on the -ve axis you have humanity. This plays out in the individual's conduct towards the brotherhood on the one hand and conduct towards the "other" - kufr, women, slaves, other sects, munafiqoon, on the other.

The Y-Axis determines the daily practice of Islam by the individual. On the +ve axis you have Islamic orthodoxy, on the -ve axis you have secularism. This determines how far the individual can integrate with the non-Muslim world.

Each Muslim is a point on such a plane.

Too much of secularism (Y-) can have a reaction where the Muslim jumps to (X+), and this can be dangerous for others. So in our effort to increase the integration between Muslim society and Kufr society and making the "Muslims" similar to us, we can often end up radicalizing the Muslim youth.

One can call this the "Islamic Slingshot Effect" among secular Muslims. Usually if it doesn't happen till the Muslim male is over his midlife crisis, then most probably it would not happen, but before that either due to peer pressure, identity crisis during youth or midlife crisis, the slingshot effect is always possible.

Secular Muslims are the susceptible to radicalism.

Of course poverty and unemployment can make the Muslim youth just as pliable in the hands of radical Mullahs, thus radicalizing them too, but it does not take away from the trend that educated, well-to-do Muslim young men are just as susceptible, which makes any policy of education, employment, secularization, integration into mainstream, not really a guarantee against radicalization and thus moot.


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2013 16:57 
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2 Indian Muslim women kill their daughters Who Married Hindu Men

http://huff.to/jB6cCF

Two Muslim mothers in a northern Indian town have been arrested on accusations they killed their daughters for dishonoring the family by eloping with Hindu men, police said Sunday.

Newlyweds Zahida, 19, and Husna, 26, were strangled when they returned home after getting married to men of their choice, said Anil Kumar Kusan, a police officer.

Marriages between Hindus and Muslims are not common in India and are frowned upon by both communities, although there are more instances of inter-religious marriages among the educated urban population.

Across India, many marriages are still arranged by families. But with the booming economy and more women entering the work force, such traditions are slowly giving way to love marriages.

However, centuries-old caste and community barriers still come into play, and there has been a spurt in "honor killings" in recent years across northern India.

Zahida and Husna were neighbors in Baghpat, a town in India's Uttar Pradesh state, when they fell in love with two construction workers. They eloped and got married last week before returning home to make peace with their families, Kusan said.

The women belonged to Muslim families and their mothers, both widows, were furious, Kusan said.

Initial investigations showed that the mothers helped each other to strangle their daughters.

"We killed them because they brought shame to our community. How could they elope with Hindus? They deserved to die. We have no remorse," Khatun, one of the mothers, was quoted as saying by the Indian Express newspaper after her arrest Friday. Khatun uses only one name.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2013 04:47 
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AbhiJ wrote:
Are Ghazis and Jihadis the same?

Or are they cousins?



Ghazis are super Jihadis.

There are numerical requirements for a jihadi to become a ghazi. He has to behead personally a certain number of kafirs.


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2013 11:31 
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From Money Jihad
Combating terrorist financing


Ibn al-Khattab: the bin Laden of Chechnya

Well-to-do Saudi served as Chechen commander and jihadist financier


In Money Jihad’s earlier post on the history of terror finance in Chechnya, one name came up again and again: Ibn al-Khattab. The terrorist leader was an early disciple of Osama bin Laden, and would benefit from bin Laden’s encouragement and financial support for years until al-Khattab’s death in 2002.

But al-Khattab was also a force unto himself, managing the flow of jihadist recruits and financing their operations in the Chechen guerrilla war against Russia. One of the better descriptions of al-Khattab’s activities comes from the book Chechen Jihad by Yossef Bodansky. Here’s an excerpt:

The Chechen jihadists received another injection of strength at this time with the arrival of an organized group of hardened Arab mujahedin from the Gulf states, including Saudis and Kuwaities, and the Maghreb region of north Africa, including Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian, and other troops. These fighters were commanded by one Ibn al-Khattab, often referred to as Emir Khattab or simply Khattab. Khattab, whose real name was Samir bin Salakh al-Suwailim, was a Bedouin from the Suwailim tribe of northwest Saudi Arabia and southern Jordan; over the years he has identified himself with both nations, depending on the circumstances. Born in 1970 to a fairly wealthy and well-educated family, Khattab received both Western and Muslim education, including learning English. In 1987 he was accepted to a college in the United States, but before continuing with his education, he decided to visit Afghanistan and briefly participate in the jihad.

Arriving in Pakistan in the fall of 1987, Khattab met some of the key leaders of the Arab “Afghans,” including Sheikh Abdallah Azzam, Sheikh Tamim Adnani, and Osama bin Laden. Captivated by their call for jihad, he committed his life to the jihad. Khattab ccompleted his training in the international camp in Jalalabad, under Hassan al-Sarehi, the commander of the 1987 Lion’s Den operation in Jaji. Impressed with the zeal and skills of his young trainee, Sarehi invited Khattab to join his forces in Jaji. Between 1988 and 1993, Khattab participated in all the major operations in the Afghan jihad, including the capture of Jalalabad, Khowst, and Kabul. He also spent time expanding his knowledge of Islam and his military skills, while becoming conversant in both Pashto and Russian.

Khattab would later claim that he decided to join the Chechen jihad after seeing televised footage of Islamist mujahedin reciting takbirs (Koranic verses) before going into battle. But his status as a commander also played a role. By the early 1990s, Khattab had emerged as one of the most fierce and competent commanders, popular with both the Afghan and the Arab “Afghan” mujahedin. He also became one of bin Laden’s key protégés. Khattab spent the years between early 1993 and early 1995 commanding a small Arab elite force in support of the Tajik Islamist mujahedin, particularly in the Fergana Valley. He returned to Afghanistan to train and lead one of the first elite forces to go to Chechnya.

When bin Laden and the Islamist-Jihadist leadership decided to escalate the jihad in the Caucasus, they summoned Khattab back from Tajikistan and dispatched him to Chechnya. Ali Hammad, a senior al Qaeda commander in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the mid-1990s, knew Khattab as a senior commander under bin Laden and considered him “one of the more important personalities in Al Qaeda.” Ali Hammad confirmed that Khattab went to Chechnya on bin Laden’s orders, and that he and bin Laden personally managed the subsequent flow of jihadist volunteers into the area.

Khattab arrived in Chechnya in the spring of 1995 with eight veteran Arab “Afghan” commanders, followed by a few dozen combat veterans. He soon became one of the most important commanders in Chechnya, quickly forming a close relationship with Shamil Basayev. One of Basayev’s closest personal friends, Chechnya’s onetime foreign minister Shamil Beno, reported that Basayev underwent a profound change in 1995 under Khattab’s influence. Basayev “started moving from freedom for Chechnya to freedom for the whole Arab world,” Beno said. “He changed from a Chechen patriot into an Islamic globalist.”


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2013 21:01 
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shiv wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:

Muslims behave this way because large chunks of them are poorly brought up bigots with low socialization, inability to deal with the woman question and childhood scars inflicted by abusive parenting. We should call them for what they are all the way from bigots to racists. People brought up that way are very likely to behave in this manner, esp. as they have active groups recruiting amongst them with mosque money.


What you are doing here is secularizing Islam. This is what has always happened up until now. I am calling for a change from this standard practice that you say must be continued.

If Islam demands parental behavior and upbringing that amounts to people being "poorly brought up bigots with low socialization, inability to deal with the woman question and childhood scars inflicted by abusive parenting." it must not be rationalized as "Oh this can happen to anyone who is brought up this way". Islam gets free rein to do what it wants and if Islam is doing that it must at the very least be documented rather than saying "oh this can happen to anyone"


That is not correct. The secular narrative is that bigotry, racism and misogyny are acceptable if religious mandates permit it. This is OK as long as the ones doing so are small minorities, the problems come when the majority or large minorities resort to racism and bigotry. Secularism has no answer to this. Muslims must be told that there is a difference and there are real consequences when you are the majority and refuse to moderate yourself.

You are asking for the religious text to be changed, this is a hopeless non starter IMO. I’m saying we need to hold them accountable for their racism and bigotry. Use the legal system and the public opinion forums to systematically target and document their racist and bigoted behavior. You can and have made the argument that Islam is different and is incompatible with modern society. But that is a different argument, one for which neither you nor anyone else has a solution. It is not for nothing that the French banned the Burqa, they are going after the symbols of bigotry that muslim folk propagate. The strongest criticism for this has come from secular folks not the religious types. You can not be fully secular all the time but you must be secular most of the time. In the other way lies madness.....

Behavior can be modified, what you are asking for IMO is unending religious war ending in some form of genocide.


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2013 21:16 
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Carl wrote:


One thing I can't understand about this video. Why do they keep showing that bearded man? What is his role in the video?


Last edited by shiv on 22 Apr 2013 21:55, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2013 21:27 
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I have a question:If a Muslim lands on Mars or Moon(God forbid!), Which direction will he pray?


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2013 23:39 
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Islam's Strengths

Cross-posting from the "Vested Interests in India for Giving In to Pak Blackmail" Thread

Islam has a few strengths:

  1. singularity of historical anchor (Muhammad), geographical anchor (Kaaba) and ideological anchor (Qu'ran)

  2. formal egalitarianism resulting in a strong planet-wide brotherhood viz-a-viz the non-believers

  3. preservation of tribal structures and genealogical lines within the brotherhood

  4. cellular organization serving the virtual ideological framework

  5. aggressive protection of its ideological integrity

  6. aggressive expansion of religion's domain - demographically, geographically and over mind-space

  7. competitive domination over the non-believers as a mark of religious fervor

  8. common security against the non-believers at every level

  9. zero compromise on claims

  10. zero adherence to treaties with non-believers, only tactical compromises

  11. use of lying as a tactical tool to make advances

  12. unrepentant taking of advantage of other's weaknesses and benefits provided by others

  13. context-dependent flexibility in politics

  14. harnessing of mankind's primeval instincts in the cause of religion


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PostPosted: 23 Apr 2013 00:00 
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Altair wrote:
I have a question:If a Muslim lands on Mars or Moon(God forbid!), Which direction will he pray?


He will always pray towards Mecca. Bharatiyas would create a movable platform on which the Muslim could sit, and which would revolve around its axis based on astronomical calculations, so that the Momeen would always be facing Mecca.

Until then the Momeen should take the advice of this Kufr Guru Nanak.


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