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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 05:25 
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Emily Lakdawala's article confirms

perigee of 246.9 (target 250 +/- 5 ) kilometers
apogee of 23,566 (target 23,500 +/- 675 ) kilometers
From my memory, inclination achieved was 19.2 degrees (target 19.2 +/- 0.2) which needs confirmation.

all parameters were met well within target numbers.

Satellite weight 1,337 kg which includes propellant weight of 852 kg

1 x 440 N Liquid engine
8 x 22N thrusters
4 x 5 Nms reaction control thrusters
3 x solar panels 1800 mm x 1400 mm generating 840 W in Martian Orbit.
1x 36 AH Li-Ion battery
2.2 m Antenna diameter
S-band Data and telemetry


(Target numbers from launcher brochure http://www.isro.org/pslv-c25/pdf/pslv-c25.pdf

Magalyaan Mission Brochure

The craft is being referred to as MOM and Magalyaan by ISRO. I wish they would pick one (my preference is Magalyaan) and stick to it for consistency. Need to get Indic names out there.

Will have to wait for TSS to write his article for accurate numbers.


Last edited by rahulm on 06 Nov 2013 06:28, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 05:49 
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JE Menon wrote:
I have watched BBC closely all day long... the reportage has been largely mean-spirited, and constantly referencing both in language in the videos of extreme poverty and mentions of UK aid, whether India should be doing something else with the money, and repeated references to the "space race" with China - all of this on the basis that "some" critics feel that way. Completely and utterly editorialised propaganda. It was an excellent feeling watching that through the day.

We are doing something right.


Have a look at the timeline of https://twitter.com/scarleyx . The account was soliciting views only from Indians/PIO twitter accounts which had something negative to say. Maybe offline he/she had sources which had positive views but not from twitter evidence.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 05:58 
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ChandraV wrote:
Anupmisra and Akshay: agree 100%. Whenever the Briturds spend any money on stuff like aircraft carrier, upkeep of their royal family, etc., post snide and nasty comments about their insignificant dreary little island and why they need such things, etc.

Looking at the comments and negativity spread by Briturds each time India does anything noteworthy, I have developed a loathing for Briturds.


Jab hathi chale baazar
kutte bhoke hazar...

jane do yaar.... the turds cannot stand India since last 300 years,

on a side note

I had a life long dream of giving 1 pound to an English beggar. I fulfilled it a few years ago. Let everyone here take that vow, that is the kind of contempt we need to have for the turds.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 06:14 
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Most of the UK news agencies can't tolerate the fact that India is becoming a space power when their country isn't. Reactions were not bad in CNN or other US news agencies apart from one comment I saw in latimes. Specifically UK has a very bad history regarding aero space and is highly dependent on sam. Funny they can't even have their own ballistic missile.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 06:16 
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Magalyaan is using a minimum energy transfer orbit called the Hohman Transfer Orbit


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 06:44 
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@rsingh..i wish things were as u pretend them to be !! i like ur optimisitc spin on the topic..@jamwal...i am not against ISRO or their work. the recent tracking of the cyclone by indian sats beings a case a point, the boom in telecommunication , remote sensing etc. everybody india is proud of an institution that works. all i am saying is mars mission does not contribute in any meaningful way to develop any new tech(s) or contribute meaningfully to science or tell us something new abt mars. I am still waiting for BRF posters to englighten us on the new tech(s) that have been or are being validadated ! we have more pressing needs/ things to be done by ISRO. If i was PM of India , I would have give ISRO ten times more budget to do things really needed for india which can be as sexy as a mars mission!! and knowing a bit abt how govt works , i can assure u that this figure of Rs 450 crores is also not correct.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 06:48 
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@sohamn .. u have no idea abt ESA...of which UK is a contributing member. and no idea abt british contribution to science and technology. Pl read up and then come to the forum !!


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:04 
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Near perfect launch.

Quote:

It was a textbook launch for the Mangalyaan spacecraft — the 25th successful mission carried out by the PSLV rocket — and its progress through the 43-minute launch phase — the longest ever for a PSLV — went on cue, with the crucial third stage rockets firing at 33 minutes and the rocket initiating satellite separation at 43 minutes.

"The PSLV C 25 has placed the Mars Orbiter Mission very precisely in an elliptical orbit around Earth,'' ISRO chairman K Radhakrishnan announced at Sriharikota minutes after satellite separation.

Related: President, PM congratulate ISRO after launch

ISRO had indicated that a perfect launch of the Rs 450-crore Mars mission would involve achieving a perigee of 250 km (nearest distance to Earth) and an apogee of 23,500 km (furthest distance from Earth). The PSLV placed the spacecraft at a perigee of 246.9 km and an apogee of 23,566 km. "The satellite is placed well within the 675 km margin of error,'' said ISRO officials.

PSLV mission director P Kunhikrishnan said the 282.63 degree argument of apogee achieved by the launch was only fractionally off the 282.55 degree that would have been considered perfect.

The Earth orbit position that the PSLV parked the Mangalyaan spacecraft in on Tuesday is considered crucial since this will allow spacecraft scientists, who will now take over the mission, to transfer Mangalyaan into a Mars-bound orbit (trans Mars insertion) on November 30 by using a minimal amount of fuel.

The launch of the Mars orbiter by ISRO has been timed to keep in tune with a 780-day occurrence where Mars comes within 55 million km distance of Earth as compared to the otherwise 400 million km distance.

"This near perfect launch sets the ground for the minimum energy transfer of the spacecraft into the Mars orbit,'' said ISRO chairman K Radhakrishnan. ISRO is following a strategy of space travel known as the Hohmann Transfer Orbit or a minimum energy transfer orbit to send the spacecraft from Earth to Mars with the least amount of fuel possible.

"The PSLV has been providing India assured access to space. After meticulous planning it has delivered another near perfect mission. This is a small step in the Mars mission. The journey from here to Mars will utilise less than a fraction of the energy used in this first phase,'' said S Ramakrishnan, director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre.

A loud cheer broke out in the ISRO mission control room during the PSLV's flight after about 33 minutes of flight, when a ship bound terminal in the south Pacific picked up the course of the rocket. "There was some concern on that, and this is why there was a cheer when the ship terminal registered the flight and there was not much data lost,'' said the ISRO chairman.

Soon after the Mangalyaan spacecraft was placed in its designated temporary orbit around Earth, operations were conducted on it including the deployment of solar panels. "The spacecraft is in good health,'' said the ISRO chief.

Over the next few days, ISRO will, through a series of orbital raisings, put the MOM in a two lakh km orbit around Earth. On December 1, a sixth and final push will put the MOM in the trans-Martian trajectory — a crucial phase in the journey to Mars.

The Mangalyaan spacecraft is scheduled to reach the Mars orbit on September 24, 2014 if the maneuvers over the next nine months go off like the launch did on Tuesday.


Last edited by Vipul on 06 Nov 2013 07:10, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:07 
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From what I see here in the US, most common people are proud of this mission and appreciate the cost at which ISRO can achieve it. It sounds like most left leaning Media in US and UK are making these dumb arguments. However what is sad to see is most the left leaning NRIs are making the same argument here in the US. I would imagine the same in UK. The worst part is NDTV is running a long debate on this. If we Indians are not proud of such a technological achievement, then even God cannot help us. Some of the same technology that is used to power this mission will definitely have lasting impact on Indian economy. The very same ISRO scientists can pioneer research projects in Indian universities and the knowledge spreads to our youth and helps the knowledge economy. I would have expected NDTV like channels to focus on such things. When they talk about poverty and malnutrition it is as though India is not spending enough of such schemes. India has been spending on such schemes for the last 60 years. These dumbos do not understand that if the right job opportunities are given to our young population they will feed themselves and their children better than these stupid schemes. To build such capacity for economic growth we need technology, And the more we push for it the more benefits we will get.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:16 
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India is quite capable of sending a rocket to Mars and fighting poverty at the same time

Quote:
This morning, India successfully launched a rocket to Mars. Christened Mangalyaan, or Mars vehicle, the rocket is part of a scientific mission that cost a grand total of Rs 4.5 billion, or $73 million. In terms of the space business, that’s a bargain. By contrast, NASA’s next Mars mission will cost $671 million and do the same thing as India’s craft: orbit the red planet collecting data.

The secret to India’s low-budget space program is a simple one: operating within constraints and without luxuries. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) adapts what technology it can, strips out costs wherever it can and is staffed with modestly-paid yet incredibly hard-working scientists, explains the Economic Times. It is willing to take more risks, for example by building just one physical model of its craft compared to the three employed by NASA in case one fails. And it sets tight schedules to reduce costs even further.

Won’t somebody please think about the children

Mangalyaan is an impressive achievement, both scientific and budgetary. But as several news reports have noted, India remains an extremely poor country with many millions still going hungry. One piece on a US site, headlined “India Swears Its Redundant, Mega-Priced Mars Probe Is Totally Worth It,” is explicit: “How does a country with one of the lowest development levels in the world justify spending on a space program?” This is as familiar and predictable a formulation as the articles by foreign correspondents that begin by calling India a “land of contrasts” and note with wonderment the sight of slums and great luxury apartments existing side by side.

ISRO’s founding father addressed this criticism several decades ago:

There are some who question the relevance of space activities in a developing nation. To us, there is no ambiguity of purpose. We do not have the fantasy of competing with the economically advanced nations in the exploration of the moon or the planets or manned space-flight. But we are convinced that if we are to play a meaningful role nationally and in the comity of nations, we must be second to none in the application of advanced technologies to the real problems of man and society.


Bangalored

Indeed, India’s space research and other advanced technological efforts are what birthed its technology industry. Bangalore did not become a tech hub simply because of its pleasant weather and lovely gardens. It is the home of ISRO, the Defence Research and Development Organisation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, and other high-tech industries that created an environment for and pool of engineers.

Moreover, the $73 million India spent on Mangalyaan is hardly snatching food from the mouths of starving babies. Two months ago, the government signed into law the Food Security Bill, which will provide roughly 800 million Indians with subsidized food and cost just under an estimated $20 billion every year. Whether you think that the bill is an outstanding piece of humanitarian legislation or a colossal scam that will only enrich middlemen and bureaucrats, it is impossible to argue that Indian government is splashing out on sexy space rockets at the expense of the poor. Mangalyaan costs less than 0.4% of the bill’s annual budget.

Questioning a poor country’s decision to launch a space program also implicitly ignores the fact that rich countries have poor people too. In 1962, President John F Kennedy declared to Americans that “we choose to go to the moon.” That year, 38.6 million Americans, or 21% of the nation (Excel file), lived below the poverty line. Last year, it was still 15%
.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:21 
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@williams..with due respect, this kind of criticism for ISRO's effort has not happened in the past. this time it is very shrill because of lot of far right people ( khaki shorts wearing) including me , see it as a waste. i pray you to tell us what long lasting impact will it have on indian economy? with limited resources, a optimal utilisation is imperative. i am not saying mars mission is root cause of poverty etc ( which is on account of malgovernance). All i am saying is think of more urgent, pressing needs of India wrt space efforts.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:26 
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JE Menon wrote:
I have watched BBC closely all day long... the reportage has been largely mean-spirited, and constantly referencing both in language in the videos of extreme poverty and mentions of UK aid, whether India should be doing something else with the money, and repeated references to the "space race" with China - all of this on the basis that "some" critics feel that way. Completely and utterly editorialised propaganda. It was an excellent feeling watching that through the day.

We are doing something right.


Hmm. You are either not human or have discovered a way to prevent this stuff from affecting your BP. Now that I have found you on zis thread, could you take a look at my qn regarding the Aga Khan and Ismaili M's that I had asked you in another thread? TIA


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:32 
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Congratulations to ISRO and India and every Indian and ex-Indian. I will triple congratulate in sitamber, 2014 and probably will do a lungi dance outside (weather permitting).

I too would question if the costs were 7e8 USD but at 8e7, that is one order of magnitude lower. Cutting the costs by 90% is called smarts and that is the khujili for Brits and some Amrus. India is going to eat their lunch, breakfast and dinner in the commercial sat launches. Some of their worst fears are coming true in that even the high- and new- tech areas are being usurped by India and other Asian countries.

WELL DONE INDIA


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:36 
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manjgu wrote:
@williams..with due respect, this kind of criticism for ISRO's effort has not happened in the past. this time it is very shrill because of lot of far right people ( khaki shorts wearing) including me , see it as a waste. i pray you to tell us what long lasting impact will it have on indian economy? with limited resources, a optimal utilisation is imperative. i am not saying mars mission is root cause of poverty etc ( which is on account of malgovernance). All i am saying is think of more urgent, pressing needs of India wrt space efforts.


You are falling into the classic trap of robbing peter to pay paul. The answer to that is to pay both more, especially if peter was paid peanuts to begin with. Take a look at NREGA and other boondoggles. Saying that Rs 450 Crores is fake "knowing how govt works" is dodgy logic. In the past you have made similar categorical claims and been mistaken, please don't be dogmatic. The references to khakhi short/far right stuff is also irrelevant. They have little relevance, because Hindu f.e. publishes glowing reports of ISRO and that's as left as you can get. These sort of statements are basically indications that you have personalized this debate in your mind and are unwilling to see alternatives or explore other people's POV.

Now coming to what benefits this mission will give, you should be determining that yourself, based on data ISRO has published. One huge impact these missions have is that ISRO sources much work locally, and it directly benefits a group of aerospace SME's in India who are critically dependent on such programs.
If your point is that ISRO should be putting more satellites up, more transponders up & working more on the military side of things, those are policy decisions which are not ISROs to make. And what they do there, should not be tomtommed either, given how ISRO is targeted by each and every group out there.

To my mind, ISRO working on cutting edge materials science, sourcing it locally, rocket propulsion, putting complex electronics payloads together in compact packages plus making breakthroughs in long range navigation - all that is a huge plus for India across the board.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:42 
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manjgu I think onus on furbishing data is on you; what makes you think that ISRO has spent all it's resources on Mangalyaan and that it is incapable of carrying out other tasks in it's mandate ? This tendency to doubt an organization that has seldom failed in it's mission without any data reeks of bias and tinted glasses nothing else.

You ask others about reading as to what UK has contributed to ESA , let me put it this way when it comes to contributing to major scientific programs we punch well above our weight, our contribution and participation in programs carried out by CERN date back to 1960s a time when we were struggling to feed our people and get are GDP upto speed. LHC at CERN today runs on some very fundamental building blocks developed and made by RRCAT , Indore.

ESA was founded only in 1975 with at least half a dozen countries from the developed world on it's board if it has launched a few more probes than us and has managed to build a rocket or two bigger than us it's no big deal. Tomorrow if ESA falls apart what will UK have apart from a sore thumb ? ISRO on the other hand is gradually becoming self sufficient in all the arenas of space technology , yes a reliable heavy weight launcher eludes us but it is not something which we have turned a blind eye to , the indigenous semi cryogenic and cryogenic stages for the same are in works and soon we will not have to depend on Protons or Arianes for lifting our heavy communication satellites. ISRO has already started putting foreign satellites into LEO and polar orbits using the PSLV so from business perspective we have put our foot in the door as far as satellite launching is concerned . As for the payloads that is our strength . You are taking offense because UK is being called out for what it is i.e. a sore looser who wishes to still live in it's old glory days of the British empire which btw after getting it's a$$ whipped in a royal fashion in the WWII is now for all purposes USA's poodle.

Lastly UK's contributions unlike ISRO's did not have to come in the face of discriminatory clauses like denial of dual use technology or arm twisting of some of our potential partners like Glavcosmos .


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:49 
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@Karan M...tell us which tech(s) are being validated not some dodgy arguments abt benefitting SME's . SME's can benefit with other ISRO programmes also? I agree the policy decisions are not taken by ISRO..a) but are they opposing bad policy decisions b) lets question the policy decisions then. As i told u i am not against ISRO...only the focus/priorities.

I am not in favour of NREGA or other silly schemes of Govt of India. with limited resources, a careful analysis is needed where to spend public money. Just because we waste money for NREGA or other schemes is no excuse for wasting on mars mission. all such silly and boondoggles need to stopped.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:56 
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^ I do not know why are you fixated on technology validation that can happen anywhere even in a lab for a start the primary goal of this mission is to study Martian atmosphere. I have never seen you ask questions on utility of several probes which NASA sends (afaik they have sent more than 2-3 to Mars alone) , ESA too sent one to Mars so why this selective khujlee about ISRO's mission ?


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 07:58 
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@negi..good. pl tell us what will they study that has not been studied before. what is the mission objectives/goals...
aha..i didnt know tech validation can happen in a lab? this is news to me...i thought experimentation/practical is needed to prove/validate something... can u validate a guidance system inside a lab without it going into a real flt?


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:02 
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manjgu wrote:
@negi..good. pl tell us what will they study that has not been studied before. what is the mission objectives/goals...

Well the answer to that is why did NASA send Path finder after Viking 1 and 2 ? Why did Russia sent at least 10-15 probes ? Finally why did ESA even bother to send a Marx Express and Beagle 2 ? They could have paid NASA for a nice DVD of pics and data no ?

At least ISRO is doing this all ALONE , ESA on the other hand used services of Soyuz TM rocket for Mars Express so ideally it is ISRO which is in theory validating a lot of stuff here right from telemetry to transitions of a payload between gravitational influences of earth>sun>mars.


Last edited by negi on 06 Nov 2013 08:05, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:05 
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that can only be answered by nasa, ruskies or ESA.... i need to know why indians sent the mars mission..i pay my taxes here...


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:15 
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and if u think the indian priorities should be same as that of US, Ruskies , Europeans then this discussion is meaningless... interplanetary telemetry and payload transition between earth/sun/mars !! have become national priorities !!


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:28 
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the mission objectives have already been posted on this thread more than once. stop trying to pretend that you can't read those.

secondly, since you accused ISRO of lying about the budget I would like to see some proof. 'experience with govt funding' is not proof, not even close. from my experience I can tell you that you are simply blowing hot air here.

so, kindly furnish evidence in support of your assertions or admit you are trolling.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:32 
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Don't want to go OT but how long before some pseudo intellectual will come and post that India should not spend money on building roads as there are millions of people who do not have food to eat and hence money should be diverted to feed them.
Briturds and others like them having heartburn is understandable but some low self-esteemed Indians trying to become Brown Sahibs is disgusting and sickening.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:35 
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Aah... hajaar congrats to ISRO and all deshwasees...

BTW, sankuji in a new avatar in this dhaga or am I mistaken...


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:37 
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For detractors of planetary missions by ISRO, the time to raise these questions of priority is not in the middle of a mission, but when it is conceived of at the drawing board. It is not like the current Chairman of ISRO woke up one fine morning and drew up such a plan. Please do talk to people at PRL, A,bad or SPL, TVM and one will get a better idea. I am sure there are multiple review boards before a project goes even high up to the PM's desk for approval.

Wait for the mission to accomplish its goals in year and a half, then you all can ask the touch questions based on your taxpayer inputs via your elected representatives. Hold on till then at least as a common courtesy to the hard working scientists who get paid peanuts in compensation.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:38 
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manjgu wrote:
@Karan M...tell us which tech(s) are being validated not some dodgy arguments abt benefitting SME's . SME's can benefit with other ISRO programmes also?


Actually my arguments are not dodgy, I am just against spoonfeeding somebody who doesn't even want to do basic research. That would be you. SME's would NOT benefit from other ISRO programmes to the degree they would do with this one, because the systems developed for this program would be completely new. Your argument is akin to saying that because SMEs contribute to DRDO radar programs in the S-Band, they have no benefits from developing components for ISRO in the C-Band. That is what is silly. Many of these SMEs are advancing by leaps and bounds because of the work they do for ISRO & the repeat business they get. Each time, ISRO is moving the goalpost forward in terms of long range programs, it automatically benefits all those suppliers who now work on the new tech and have to develop new systems for these.

That you cannot correlate the exact specifics of what has been done in terms of technology and counter how it would not benefit other programs strongly suggests you wish to be given this info on a platter. Why should anyone do that, when it is your case to make?

Quote:
I agree the policy decisions are not taken by ISRO..a) but are they opposing bad policy decisions b) lets question the policy decisions then. As i told u i am not against ISRO...only the focus/priorities.


They have no mandate to oppose policy decisions taken by the cabinet and/or MOD. At best, if the Dept of Space asks them to do something for national security, that is when they are involved. Basically, you are barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong thread.

Quote:
I am not in favour of NREGA or other silly schemes of Govt of India. with limited resources, a careful analysis is needed where to spend public money. Just because we waste money for NREGA or other schemes is no excuse for wasting on mars mission. all such silly and boondoggles need to stopped.


The quantum of money spent on NREGA and other programs is of a scale which dwarfs any such programs which:
a) Have ISRO develop technology it did not have before
b) Have the benefits of sourcing that technology locally improve indian industry
c) Give ISRO engineers competence in terms of taking up even more challenging programs
d) Motivate them & other folks who wish to benchmark themselves against similar programs worldwide.

Ergo, you have neither made the case that the expenditure on ISROs MARs mission is wasteful, is silly, or is a boondoggle.

All you have done so far is complain, complain and complain that its wasteful, silly and a boondoggle and everyone else should provide you evidence it is not, without providing any evidence of your own to point out that is so.

Put your money where your mouth is and point out exactly how:
1. All the tech for this program already existed & did not lead to any advances
2. That this money would have been used elsewhere and provided disruptive benefit (not equal)
3. That this was wasteful

Failing the above, to then carp on how pointless this mission was and to play up British advances in space tech or whatever (which proceeded on the back of umpteen such mini programs across aerospace in their heyday) is to waste our time with meaningless claims.


Last edited by Karan M on 06 Nov 2013 08:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 08:41 
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Gurus;
Any news on the orbital.manouvers that were supposed to dine in the "wee hours" of 6th nov? Didnt see any updates on that anywhere yet


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:05 
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There are beggers roaming around streets of melbourne, sydney, Auckland and london (atleast cities i know of). Does anyone ask why these island nations need an armed force at all , being cocooned in their nuclear umbrella. They could have spend those millions on educating the aborigines or maoris. What need is for the ESA or Brits to launch satellites and probe at all. Why should NASA and Russians go to Mars and beyond? Is exploration of space only west's privilege ?

Ambition to explore and do things oneself is feeling that cannot be explained in words. NewZealanders take pride in fact that Hillary was the first to reach Everest. When one think about it, what was the big deal....just a mountain that dont run away, same human body ...there was no scientific breakthrough anywhere. If that is how one looks at it, then its all true. But if one looks at it from a perspective of the challenges overcome and the human endeavor that has gone behind it, then its a matter of great joy and national pride.

If what people want to see is boring bullet points and rounded figures in millions to justify an achievement then i am afraid things like national pride and prestige may not mean much.

Hope that mangalyan instill a spirit of exploration and adventure among all Indians. We have just began our quest and the genie is out of the bottle. Wishing ISRO a good luck for a grand future.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:05 
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Lalmohan wrote:
i dont think this mission is a show off, i think it will inspire a new generation of technologists


This is how we have celebrated Diwali in style, a true rocket with Mangal Yaan launched on Mangal Var. Even if it is a show-off, worth it, and yes inspiring a new generation is bonus.

Jai Ho! Aloud!


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:29 
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Guys. Lets stick to the topic and just ignore trolls likes Majgu/Sanku/whoever and what the Brits think of this and that. ISRO did what it had to do and did it brilliantly. That is all that matters. Finis, Khalaas, Over.

Lets stick to Mars and the science behind the rocketry and satellites and planetary exploration.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:31 
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we need lots of jai hos.. 'cause just search for russia in this link, you will know what i am talking. there may be many who may not like us get there within non-nato block countries.

also compare with other missions and their traversal times
http://www.planetary.org/explore/space- ... -mars.html


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:32 
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rahulm wrote:
Magalyaan is using a minimum energy transfer orbit called the Hohman Transfer Orbit

Could you please explain this a little more? Very interesting in understanding how they timed the launch to derive benefit from this transfer orbit.

PS: Vina, thanks. Ejumacate us please, when you have the time.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:44 
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more pics and data
http://www.scientificindians.com/techno ... rs-mission


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:57 
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Marten wrote:
rahulm wrote:
Magalyaan is using a minimum energy transfer orbit called the Hohman Transfer Orbit

Could you please explain this a little more? Very interesting in understanding how they timed the launch to derive benefit from this transfer orbit.

PS: Vina, thanks. Ejumacate us please, when you have the time.


Quote:
A primary consideration in all Mars missions is reaching the planet by expending the least amount of energy or fuel. This is achieved by sending the spacecraft along a trajectory called the Hohmann Transfer Orbit or Minimum Energy Transfer Orbit. From the final earth-bound orbit, the spacecraft will leave the earth in a hyperbolic trajectory in a direction tangential to the earth’s orbit. This is the MTT along which the spacecraft will escape from the earth’s sphere of influence (SOI) with a velocity equal to the earth’s orbital velocity plus the cumulative boost (Δv) of about 1.5 km/s given by the five LAM firings (880 m/s) and the sixth LAM firing into trans-Mars injection (640 m/s).


http://www.frontline.in/cover-story/mis ... 280848.ece


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 09:59 
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manjgu wrote:
@sohamn .. u have no idea abt ESA...of which UK is a contributing member. and no idea abt british contribution to science and technology. Pl read up and then come to the forum !!


I doubt you pay any taxes to the Indian Coffers and I doubt you know anything about Indian space and exploration. I was seeing a TV program where the media interviewed a student about MoM, while she didn't even know that ISRO launched a spacecraft to Mars she was blowing steam about poverty and malnutrition . You, this student and some others are a small subset of indian population who with all their ignorance pretend to be highly intellectual.

You and your pseudo-talibani intellectual bunch doesn't even know how less this mission costs ( 0.00007 % of GDP ) and how much India spends for its other programs.

What ISRO did was invest in the dreams of the Indian Youth to think big, ISRO invested in the validation of a technology that can be utilized for deep space exploration and mining. When NASA send probes to outer space it invested in dreams and there was a boy who dream't big. His name is Elon Musk, today he has opened a Company known as SpaceX which has developed its own launch vehicles and space-crafts. If we have to create Richard Branson's and Elon Musk's then we have to invest in the future, we have to invest in the dreams. We have to make us believe we can also reach for the stars.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 10:03 
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Marten wrote:
Could you please explain this a little more? Very interesting in understanding how they timed the launch to derive benefit from this transfer orbit.

PS: Vina, thanks. Ejumacate us please, when you have the time.


That is pure Engg Mech / Orbital motions, more in the realm of Fyzzics than engineering. You should ask Bade Mian, a true blue Fyzzicist or Amber Maam about this. They will do justice to that.

But think of it. The NASA Maven mission is going to get launched on a humongous launcher (The Evolved Titan Atlas V) on Nov 18th (some 2 weeks after Mangalyaan), but will reach Mars some two days before Mangalyaan , if what I read somewhere is correct !

ISRO launched the satellite on the scrawny PSLV, and gets it slung in elliptical orbits a couple of times and does an efficient transfer to Mars, while the NASA maven riding on a Beefcake Titan gets flung directly at Mars.. :(( :(( , while making me poor Yindoo shiver in my dhoti.


Last edited by vina on 06 Nov 2013 10:15, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 10:09 
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manjgu wrote:
@rsingh..i wish things were as u pretend them to be !! i like ur optimisitc spin on the topic..@jamwal...i am not against ISRO or their work. the recent tracking of the cyclone by indian sats beings a case a point, the boom in telecommunication , remote sensing etc. everybody india is proud of an institution that works. all i am saying is mars mission does not contribute in any meaningful way to develop any new tech(s) or contribute meaningfully to science or tell us something new abt mars. I am still waiting for BRF posters to englighten us on the new tech(s) that have been or are being validadated ! we have more pressing needs/ things to be done by ISRO. If i was PM of India , I would have give ISRO ten times more budget to do things really needed for india which can be as sexy as a mars mission!! and knowing a bit abt how govt works , i can assure u that this figure of Rs 450 crores is also not correct.


As other posters have already dwelt on....
Isn't it a "validation" when Isro manages deep space maneuvers Involved in jumping from earth's orbit (slingshot) to sun's and then to mars's (capture of the slingshot) and the complex and perilous deepspace signalling and telemetry involved in this process - all completely new and hitherto never attempted by the Indians ?
Or do you hold that this experience is otherwise available as a simulated virtual reality project sold by Massa or Russian coaching centers to budding Indian scientists to "give" them a "comprehensive understanding" - and we need not "waste" 450 crore ( I myself suspect that its actually onreee 45 crore - want evidence ? Sorry !! have none except that ive seen too many paki rugsellers saying that a rug costed tens of thousands of rupees to make while it was actually made using just thousands of rupees - why should anyone think that its different in case of ISRO hain ji? )
Then there is the other not so minor matter of "validation" of Indian material science tech and thermal management tech (both as applied to space applications) if structures and instruments on MoM withstand an years worth of solar blast in deep space (failure in this aspect is probably why our last deep space mission chandrayaan 1 had to shutdown after 312 days of operation even while in moon's orbit as opposed to its full mission life of 2 years ) - or do you hold that this experience is somehow being sold at dollars per hour rate in the confines of ISS or Chinese space station for the Indians to perform experiments upto to their hearts content and to validate how our exotic materials and heat management features fare under unending hours of direct solar exposure in deep space ...?

Edited to antijinx above:
MoM will be 450 crore down the drain onlee , Isro's will see its lungi pulled off through failure of MoM onlee


Last edited by Lilo on 06 Nov 2013 10:39, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 10:20 
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Hohmann transfers are done even for geostationary launches, but its utility comes even more for inter-planetary transfers.

Image

Orbital speed from Kepler's laws take this dependence. For circular orbits 'r' is fixed so is the value of 'v' at all points in the orbit. In a highly elliptical orbit 'v' is greatest at the closest point to the object in the center of the orbit and lowest at the farthest point. One can use this to grow the size of orbits or to decrease it as needed most efficiently with the least amount of fuel expended by short bursts of your rocket engine appropriately to impart additional speed or reduce it and hence changing the orbit in the process.

More details and animation is available below.

http://www.polaris.iastate.edu/EveningS ... 6_sub2.htm

http://www.polaris.iastate.edu/EveningS ... 6_sub3.htm


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 10:31 
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>>Hmm. You are either not human or have discovered a way to prevent this stuff from affecting your BP.

This crap only affects ones BP if one expects these fellows to behave any differently... For me, this is exactly the sort of behaviour I expect. I'd start worrying if they began talking about India like Modi does.

>>Now that I have found you on zis thread, could you take a look at my qn regarding the Aga Khan and Ismaili M's that I had asked you in another thread? TIA

I answered that long ago - copy pasted your post into another thread. Thing is I myself don't remember which thread I did that on... Maybe one of the Islamic threads? Pls have a look.

Trouble is I haven't yet figured out this cross linking to direct post thingie, and since I wield admin "powers" am worried that I might accidentally wipe out the entire galaxy by accident :D


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2013 10:38 
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Thanks JEM - I'll find it out. I guess I have to look under your post history and it should show the thread. Thx - got it (search.php?author_id=119&sr=posts)


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