Indian Naval Aviation

[Rakesh]

No warship, submarine can pass through Indian Ocean without being detected: Top Navy officer
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 928143333/
28 Sept 2023

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy’s P-8I Aircraft to get upgrades in technology and weaponry
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/09/indi ... -weaponry/
28 Sept 2023

[Rakesh]

Indian Predator drones help Navy keep a close watch over Indian Ocean Region
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/09/indi ... an-region/
26 Sept 2023

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/ajitkdubey/status/1708522 ... 14431?s=20 ---> Predator Drone

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy to equip its MQ-9B Sea Guardian drones with Sonobuoys, to hunt Chinese submarines lurking in Indian Ocean
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indian- ... dian-ocean
27 Sept 2023

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1712659 ... 05644?s=20 ---> INAS 316 commissioned on 29 Mar 2022 at Goa, with four LR ASW P-8I aircraft, completed more than 5,000 hours of operational flying in less than two years, exemplifying the squadron's Condors motto - Glory Through Valour, which also symbolises the unwavering spirit of men & women beneath the wings.

https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1712659 ... 83706?s=20 ---> INAS 316 (Condors) & INAS 312 (Albatross), the two squadrons operating the state of the art P-8I aircraft, besides spreading the wings over the Indian Ocean & beyond, have been augmenting the surveillance along the northern & western borders.

https://x.com/Kbsingh03/status/1712677806084387145?s=20 ---> Great going. Unrelenting focus on ASW should be their primary mission.
^^^ Above tweet is from Admiral Karambir Singh (retd), former Chief of Naval Staff, Indian Navy.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1713920 ... 31693?s=20 ---> Indian Navy carrier groups with carrier and shore based AEW (E-2 Hawkeye) capability. Notional image, circa 2016.

[Manish_P]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1713920 ... 31693?s=20 ---> Indian Navy carrier groups with carrier and shore based AEW (E-2 Hawkeye) capability. Notional image, circa 2016.

Shore based E-2 Hawkeye?

Is it like a 'what-if' scenario?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1713920 ... 31693?s=20 ---> Indian Navy carrier groups with carrier and shore based AEW (E-2 Hawkeye) capability. Notional image, circa 2016.

Shore based E-2 Hawkeye?

Is it like a 'what-if' scenario?

The Indian Navy received a presentation - from Northrop Grumman - more than a decade and a half back about the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. See the articles below from 2009. This presentation was in response to the then upcoming CATOBAR aircraft carrier (aka IAC-2 aka INS Vishal) along with a fleet of F-18SHs. That IAC-2 proposal - as we now know - never materialized and the E-2D acquisition has since been on the backburner. The screenshot is likely from that presentation and was meant to show the E-2D can still provide credible coverage, even when operating from the shore.

This is a capability that is sorely lacking on INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant. The Ka-31 is just not sufficient enough, especially considering the Rafale M, the MH-60R and other expensive air platforms that will be operating from INS Vikrant. In light of this, leasing/lending (or at least requesting the Air Force) some Netra AEW&C for carrier operations would be essential for CBG protection. This should not be insurmountable, in light of jointness and theaterization being the buzzwords in the military now...starting with the CDS himself, with full support from the PMO.

There is no need for the Navy to operate a stand along fleet of AEW&C aircraft, especially if it will be cost prohibitive for the Navy to do. The P-8Is have been doing yeoman service for the Army in the North East. Jaguar IMs - of the Indian Air Force - still perform the anti-ship role with the Harpoon AShM (with the Sea Eagle AShM having been retired). That has now been supplanted by the Su-30MKI along with the BrahMos-A - from No 222 Tigersharks Squadron - again from the Indian Air Force.

EXCLUSIVE: Northrop’s E-2D Pitch To Indian Navy
https://www.livefistdefence.com/exclusi ... -pitch-to/
08 Sept 2009
^^^ The thumbnails do not load up in the link above. But if you click on the blank thumbnail, the full sized image will display.

US clears Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for India
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/us ... iwEVP.html
13 Sept 2009

[Manish_P]

..
The Indian Navy received a presentation - from Northrop Grumman - more than a decade and a half back about the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. See the articles below from 2009. This presentation was in response to the then upcoming CATOBAR aircraft carrier (aka IAC-2 aka INS Vishal) along with a fleet of F-18SHs. That IAC-2 proposal - as we now know - never materialized and the E-2D acquisition has since been on the backburner. The screenshot is likely from that presentation and was meant to show the E-2D can still provide credible coverage, even when operating from the shore.
...

Ok sir. Got it.

Bit risky (IMHO) showing the E-2 operating from shore. It would remind the higher ups that the IAF Phalcons could do that (with better coverage?). Better to show it operating from the AC.

Anyway it's moot for now I suppose

[Rakesh]

The Phalcons are reportedly having availability issues i.e. the platform, not the electronics. The IL-76 is a maintenance hog. I suspect that is one of the reasons, why the follow-on Phalcons were not ordered. Similar story with the IL-76MKI, the IAF's six in-flight refueling aircraft.

The risk comes from limiting the operating range of the aircraft, due to it being shore based vs carrier based. But since the Indian Navy does not have a catapult based aircraft carrier, shore based it is.

P.S. Why are you calling me Sir?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1714684 ... 20846?s=20 ---> First official image (picture 1) of Indian Navy’s leased MQ-9, among notable images released from visit of Vice Admiral Rajesh Pendharkar (FOC-in-C, ENC) to INS Rajali. Others being (picture 2):

- CATM-84 captive carry training missile for P-8I
- Mk54 torpedo (possibly dummy?)

[Kersi]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1714684 ... 20846?s=20 ---> First official image (picture 1) of Indian Navy’s leased MQ-9, among notable images released from visit of Vice Admiral Rajesh Pendharkar (FOC-in-C, ENC) to INS Rajali. Others being (picture 2):

Seeing the size of MQ 9 i think we should try and convert some MiG21s into armed UAVs

[Rakesh]

The Astra (& future variants) and the BrahMos-NG.

Rafale: The fighter that broke all records – How sales took off
https://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/wor ... -poliseis/
05 Sept 2023

In this favorable context, the CEO of Dassault Aviation set two international priority goals for the end of the year: First, the completion of negotiations with India for the Rafale Navy, which will be equipped with Indian missiles. Second, to secure the third installment of the Rafale contract with Indonesia (18 remaining aircraft out of the 42 ordered by Jakarta for €8.1 billion excluding armament).

[ashishvikas]

India gives 'Letter of Request' to France for buying 26 Rafale-M fighter jets for Navy
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 027220359/
27 Oct 2023

[Chinmay]

More Rafales coming!

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy enters final talks to acquire 26 Dassault Rafale M fighters
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/indi ... m-fighters
01 Nov 2023

[Rakesh]

India officially requests France to acquire 26 Rafale M combat aircraft
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... craft.html
02 November 2023

The dimensions of the Rafale M align well with the deck and hangar spaces of INS Vikrant, allowing for efficient storage, movement, and operation.

^^^ Hangar Space of INS Vikrant = Samosa Storage of Rafale M

...the Rafale M's payload capacity and range are in line with INS Vikrant’s role as a power projection platform, indicating good operational compatibility.

[Rakesh]

UP and Haryana to get MQ-9B Sky Guardian Bases in India
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/11/up-a ... -in-india/
05 Nov 2023

[JTull]

UP and Haryana to get MQ-9B Sky Guardian Bases in India
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/11/up-a ... -in-india/
05 Nov 2023

Go easy on posting same messages in 3-4 threads, mate!

[Rakesh]

Go easy on posting same messages in 3-4 threads, mate!

Sirjee, I knew this was going to be a problem when i posted this in multiple threads. But the article talks about all three services and if I posted it in just one thread…then members will have discussions about MQ-9Bs of the Army and Air Force in this thread. And discussions have a tendency to veer into other tangents. Moving posts - especially a long series - is a royal pain. I apologize for the inconvenience.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Sukhwinder104/status/1724 ... 51914?s=20 ---> Panther on the Prowl: An Indian Navy MiG-29K of the INAS 303 "Black Panthers" preparing for a takeoff from Goa's INS Hansa naval air station. (Credit: Sidd Dhuri via Instagram).

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Duorope/status/1722894966421348576?s=20 ---> Cockpit view of ALH Dhruv Mk III during flight.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/IN_HQENC/status/1726496305659494828?s=20 ---> INAS 312 " Albatross", the first LRMR (Long Range Maritime Reconnaisance) squadron of the Indian Navy marks it's 47th anniversary on 18 Nov 2023. The squadron has maintained sustained surveillance in the IOR and remains as part of the first responder and preferred security partner of the Indian Navy.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1726984600017306093?s=20 ---> Clean integration of Indian system on P-8I.

https://x.com/iamward0g/status/1726987394371785153?s=20 ---> Indigenous Search and Rescue Kit (SARK).

[Rakesh]

First tranche of C-295s for the Navy and the Coast Guard. Was expected.

Indian Coast Guard, Navy to buy 15 C-295 transport aircraft for maritime surveillance
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 124175230/
24 Nov 2023

[Rakesh]

Originally posted by the BenG in the Su-30MKI: News and Discussion thread....

You have said Rafale-M was chosen by Indian Navy instead of Super Hornet and the american fighter failed the test. But Navy statement read that both met their requirement and it had passed the selection to GoI. So super hornet could have made it if not for Rafale commonality with IAF. I will point to some instances in the past from our interactions where you try too hard to justify the status quo.

[Rakesh]

You have said Rafale-M was chosen by Indian Navy instead of Super Hornet and the american fighter failed the test. But Navy statement read that both met their requirement and it had passed the selection to GoI. So super hornet could have made it if not for Rafale commonality with IAF. I will point to some instances in the past from our interactions where you try too hard to justify the status quo.

Please see this ----> https://www.livefistdefence.com/indian- ... t-contest/

Livefist can confirm that the Indian Navy has formally indicated to the Indian Ministry of Defence that the Rafale meets more of its requirements than the only other contender in the fray, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet. While Indian defence contracting has been notorious for the distance — and pitfalls — between contest win and contract award, top Indian Navy sources said that the Rafale “has this one”.

This is what was conveyed to the Ministry of Defence. Both aircraft would have worked - like the Indian Navy indicated - but the F-18SH would have required costly modifications to INS Vikrant.

[Rakesh]

Originally posted by the BenG in the Su-30MKI: News and Discussion thread....

Please see this ----> https://www.livefistdefence.com/indian- ... t-contest/

This is what was conveyed to the Ministry of Defence. Both aircraft would have worked - like the Indian Navy indicated - but the F-18SH would have required costly modifications to INS Vikrant.

^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe, true. If Rafale was technically far better, good for them. But Indian Navy lost an opportunity to have their aircraft carriers be capable of being interoperable with American fighters. US Navy could spare fighters from its inventory during wartime which the French cannot. Navy chose autonomy over interoperability.

[Rakesh]

Maybe, true. If Rafale was technically far better, good for them. But Indian Navy lost an opportunity to have their aircraft carriers be capable of being interoperable with American fighters. US Navy could spare fighters from its inventory during wartime which the French cannot.

Firstly, operating the *EXACT* same fighter that another country has, is not the *ONLY* definition of interoperability.

Here is a more *WHOLESOME* definition of interoperability from the US Navy's own official website. Please do read --->

Ike and Charles de Gaulle Participate in Cross-Deck Aircraft Launches and Recoveries
https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News- ... and-recov/
03 March 2020

Secondly, there has never been an agreement that the US will spare any of its fighters from its inventory to India in peacetime or during war. That is an unfounded rumour started by some on BRF, to justify the purchase of an American fighter. There are some questions to ask from such a scenario;

1) What is the reason for taking fighters from US inventory/stocks and transferring them to India? Is it because of large scale attrition? If that is the case, something is either seriously wrong with the aircraft in question or with the training that is imparted to the pilot. Sending more planes of the same, will end up with the same result. What point would that serve?

2) Military aircraft that India purchases have specific ISE upgrades on them. These are not present on the host country's platforms. Indian Rafales have equipment on board, that French Rafales do not. One cannot just adopt French Rafales and operate them under India. Indian Navy P-8I Neptunes have certain systems on board that are not present on US Navy P-8A Poseidons. The latter has certain classified systems on board, that the Indian Navy P-8Is just do not have. The 12 P-8Is are specific to India alone. If we lose them, we cannot just operate some P-8As on loan. Airframe losses have to be replaced by purchasing new build airframes and built to the same specific standard that India operates.

Thirdly, the arrestor gear on INS Vikrant is designed to handle the weight of the MiG-29 and the Naval Tejas Mk1. The Rafale M is also suitable. The F-18SH, on the other hand, is too much for the arrestor gear to handle. Boeing publicly complained about this, once they realized that they lost the MRCBF contest. If the F-18SH was selected, the entire arrestor gear system - on a brand new vessel - would have to be changed. This involves significant investment, which India does not have to do on the Rafale M.

Fourthly, for reasons best known only to the Indian Navy, they want the choice of MRCBF to be nuclear capable i.e. carry a missile with a nuclear warhead. That is not going to happen on the F-18SH. The French have no such clauses.

Navy chose autonomy over interoperability.

I absolutely agree with the Indian Navy on autonomy. And as for interoperability, the Rafale M can easily operate from a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier, as the article above states. The onus lies on the US, to learn to be interoperable with other countries and they are doing it with great success. Here is a YouTube video of Rafale Ms conducting traps and take-offs from the USS George HW Bush. Enjoy!

French Rafale fighter jets operate with USS George H.W. Bush

[Cyrano]

Interoperability is a well disguised trap. Bharat is absolutely right to sidestep it.

[chetak]

Rakesh Ji,

The frenchies use a lot of amriki gear on their carrier.

That's where the ease of interoperability comes from...It's already built in

[JTull]

Sovereignty trumps interoperability anyday! There's a reason it's called 'Indian' Navy. And it knows what mission profiles it needs to be ready for. Being ready to borrow fighters isn't one of them. They do have backups in place for submarine rescue, but even those needs are being addressed with atmanirbharta.

Conversely, interoperability is just a euphemism for dependency and lack of strategic depth.

[Rakesh]

Rakesh Ji,

The frenchies use a lot of amriki gear on their carrier.

That's where the ease of interoperability comes from...It's already built in

Saar, I know

When BenG mentioned India chose autonomy over interoperability, I knew where he is coming from. That train is never late!

[Rakesh]

Missile that ‘punched’ Russian sub will arm India’s Rafale M
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/11/2 ... -rafale-m/
27 November 2023

Lethal missile SCALP available for Indian Navy's Rafale; talks on
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 518717.cms
27 November 2023

By Manu Pubby

The lethal missile that knocked out a Russian submarine and struck the Black Sea Fleet headquarters in a high-profile attack in September is available for the Rafale Marine fighter jets which are being acquired by the Indian Navy. Negotiations are underway to finalise the weapons package which will come with the naval Rafale that are to operate from the indigenous INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. India is looking to acquire at least 26 of the maritime aircraft, which will represent a big leap in capability from the current MiG 29K fighters being operated by the navy.

The "game changer" SCALP missiles, which have a range of more than 300 km and are designed to hit high-value and strongly protected targets deep inside enemy territory, are already deployed on Rafale fighter jets of the Indian Air Force. "MBDA stands ready to meet the needs of the Indian Navy on Rafale M with the latest missile systems, as already provided to the IAF, continuing our 50-year history of partnership with the Indian Navy," said Ludovic Dumont, MBDA India general delegate.

The French weapons manufacturer makes the SCALP ground attack missile as well as the Meteor long range air-to-air missile that outrange all known weapon systems in the region. The air force Rafale jets can carry two of the missiles that enable them to hit virtually any target within Pakistan. The marine version of the fighters can carry one SCALP each and combined with the infinite range of an aircraft carrier would make for a lethal package.

[Rakesh]

X-Post from the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF): News & Discussion thread...

https://x.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/17205 ... 00662?s=20 ---> ....

TEDBF is my and some other jingos' khayali-pulao. Some call it ORCA.

https://x.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/17205 ... 45983?s=20 ---> It takes a lot of effort and money to develop any fighter, forget a deck-based fighter. India's requirement is only of 36-72 naval fighters. It makes prudent sense to amortize this cost over longer production runs, especially when the IAF is in need of medium-weight fighters.

And right on cue, but will wait for confirmation to find out if the below is true.

https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/1729 ... 78100?s=20 ---> More Rafale-Ms likely to be ordered for IAC-2, as currently planned 26 are enough only for INS Vikrant (IAC-1).

https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/1711 ... 28954?s=20 --> What we should hear soon.

1) 26 Rafale M inked, MoU for additional 26.

2) 6 squadrons of Rafale will be MRFA. The MOU will be signed orders to be signed in tranches of 2 squadrons every 3-4 years. Cost will vary from tranche to tranche as we move from F4 to F5 & beyond in tranches . Each deal likely to include upgrade costs for older tranches as well.

3) Dassault to set up the primary Rafale line in Nagpur, Bharat. Will undertake final assembly for some of 80 UAE jets and 42 Indonesian orders here as well.

[Rakesh]

Listen carefully to what Admiral Hari Kumar says about the Rafale M.

Looking like a Rafale assembly line is going to be set up in India. But no assembly line will be set up for a mere 26 airframes.

VIDEO: https://x.com/BharatShaktiBSI/status/17 ... 38858?s=20 ---> Essentially, by 2026 or 2027, it will be us, says CNS Adm R Hari Kumar on acquiring 26 Rafale Marine aircraft. Watch the full interview, today at 6 pm.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ramana_brf/status/1730091 ... 16392?s=20 ---> Waiting for 26 Rafale-M.

Please see above post Ramana-ji.

[Cybaru]

Listen carefully to what Admiral Hari Kumar says about the Rafale M.

Looking like a Rafale assembly line is going to be set up in India. But no assembly line will be set up for a mere 26 airframes.

VIDEO: https://x.com/BharatShaktiBSI/status/17 ... 38858?s=20 ---> Essentially, by 2026 or 2027, it will be us, says CNS Adm R Hari Kumar on acquiring 26 Rafale Marine aircraft. Watch the full interview, today at 6 pm.

Great find! So Tedbf's timeline is Mig29K retirement - that's a young craft getting retired.

[Rakesh]

Indeed. The Admiral does say that some airframe assembly of the Rafale M will occur alongside Air Force Rafales.

A slip of the tongue?