Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Oct 2023 19:26

It is established wisdom on BRF that every time India reaches a certain threshold of capacity. The floodgates for screwdriver assembly of obsolete equipment are opened by exporters.

The Indian Armed forces nearly always lose sense of perspective, like children in a toy shop.

1) The planned production of upgraded BVRAAM originally designed nearly 40 years ago will divert industrial capacity from the enhanced production of Astra.

2) The planned production of Anti Radiation missile is going to adversely effect the establishment of production of indigenous NGARM.

3) Why focus on the Crystal Maze. When all the components for the development of indigenous equivalent of Crystal Maze?

Besides TARA comes to mind.

4) Mistral missiles? Is the VSHORAD a failure already?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Oct 2023 22:22

IAF activates three S-400 missile units on the China, Pak border; meeting with Russian officials soon to discuss final delivery schedule
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 030202758/
30 Oct 2023

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 31 Oct 2023 13:14

Regarding the Make III proposals - another still-born brainless idea just like the AWACS-Tanker combo project, which will waste the time and energy of some poor IAF officers who have been ordered to explore and give it a try by a brainless minister and/or brainless air marshals
1. Has IAF negotiated and obtained approval for license production of these missiles from the foreign oems and the Ruski, French and israeli govts?
2. Will any Oem go through the whole hassle for an order size of 100-200 which they could service in under 1 Yr from their existing facility?
3. How exactly do they plan to make the 'prototypes'? By importing all the sub systems in whole like the rocket motors, propellants, seekers, warheads, guidance systems and soldering it all together in a workshop? Or the prototypes are supposed to have some desi mfg components? Then trials and price negotiations, and then maybe just maybe an order to build all of 100-200 missiles?

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 31 Oct 2023 13:31

These are in service weapons. If IAF sees a need to order big qtys of these in future, then write to the oem and ask them to do a feasibility of setting up a facility in India. Do it 1 on 1. They are best placed to liaise with their govt, figure out who is the best Indian jv partner, etc etc.
What purpose is served by putting an advert out like it is some tendering process? Makes no sense at all

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 31 Oct 2023 17:47

Om Shanthi, Sir...

There's nothing more beautiful than a life fully lived....

Travel well.

Air Marshal P K Barbora, Who Defied UPA Government To Reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi Air Field Near India-China Border, Passes Away
https://www.deccanherald.com/india/form ... es-2748666

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 31 Oct 2023 17:53

Pratyush wrote: ↑30 Oct 2023 19:26 It is established wisdom on BRF that every time India reaches a certain threshold of capacity. The floodgates for screwdriver assembly of obsolete equipment are opened by exporters.

It has been happening since 2 decades. Something like this happened even for project Vetrivale or was it for the control / navigation system for Tejas ?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Oct 2023 20:52

1) No.2 Winged Arrows
2) No.4 Oorials
3) No.8 Eight Pursoots
4) No.15 Flying Lancers (of Balakot fame

)
5) No.24 Hawks
6) No.31 Lions
7) No.20 Lightnings
8] No.30 Rhinos
9) No.102 Trisonics (ex MiG-25 squadron)
10) No.106 Lynxes
11) No.220 Desert Tigers
12) No.221 Valiants
13) No.222 Tigersharks (armed with BrahMos-A)
+ TACDE (Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment)

https://x.com/livefist/status/1719352649215017421?s=20 ---> The Indian Air Force has retired the first of three remaining MiG-21 squadrons. No.4 Squadron ‘Oorials’ has converted to the Su-30MKI. Pictured here from the squadron’s farewell to its Bisons.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Oct 2023 21:02

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/17 ... 29005?s=20 ---> We have two active MiG-21 Squadrons - No.3 Cobras based at Bikaner and No.23 Panthers based at Suratgarh in Rajasthan, will be phased out by 2025. Each squadron has 16-18 fighter planes.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 31 Oct 2023 22:17

Rakesh wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 20:52https://x.com/livefist/status/1719352649215017421?s=20 ---> The Indian Air Force has retired the first of three remaining MiG-21 squadrons. No.4 Squadron ‘Oorials’ has converted to the Su-30MKI. Pictured here from the squadron’s farewell to its Bisons.

Just 3 days back, I finally gave up on the 13th squadron of Rambha after waiting for 2 years since last Su30 was manufactured...
Now seeing this news...

So, we will have 30 active squadrons by 2025, against 29 that I calculated earlier...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Oct 2023 22:46

They are likely pulling airframes from other Rambha squadrons to raise up this latest Rambha squadron. 272 airframes were inducted in total and 12 aircraft (incl the latest one i.e. mid-air collision between Rambha and Mirage 2000I) have been lost since its formal induction on 27 Sep 2022. That leaves 260 airframes still in service. I believe the 12 attrition replacement Su-30MKIs have reached the DAC stage. Just awaiting DAC clearance to award contract to HAL and start the production.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 01 Nov 2023 00:53

Rakesh wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 22:46Just awaiting DAC clearance to award contract to HAL and start the production.

Can HAL actually start production though, even if they get DAC approval? Subsystems including major engine parts come from Russia. With Western sanctions in place, don't think those systems could still be imported...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Nov 2023 01:26

Avik wrote: ↑01 Nov 2023 00:53 Can HAL actually start production though, even if they get DAC approval? Subsystems including major engine parts come from Russia. With Western sanctions in place, don't think those systems could still be imported...

I believe that India has advised the US that legacy and in-service platforms are to be exempt from retaliatory sanctions. By and large, that is being followed by the US to avoid antagonizing India (in view of the China threat). Thus spares for Su-30MKIs and attrition replacements are kosher. Same with the S-400, which the GOI is discussing with Russia as to the delivery of the last two regiments. I believe even the upcoming Akula lease is also good. What will not be considered good, would be awarding the MRFA contract to Russia for 114 MiG-35s or Su-35s. Or ordering new build Kilo Class submarines. But the IAF and the IN does not want these platforms anyway.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Nov 2023 01:29

I posted the below in the Su-30MKI thread in Sept and I forgot!

Rakesh wrote: ↑15 Sep 2023 17:25 The 12 additional Su-30MKIs have finally been approved by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC). See the news release below...last line.

Next stop, CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) clearance. Finally!

https://x.com/BharatShaktiBSI/status/17 ... 65934?s=20

Rakesh wrote: ↑20 Sep 2023 20:47 Ready to supply 12 Su-30MKI kit to India: Russia
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/09/read ... ia-russia/
20 September 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Nov 2023 01:51

VIDEO: https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1719302884502950380?s=20 --->

SURYAKIRAN

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Nov 2023 19:01

Perhaps this post is better suited to another thread, I've seen many a point being made about delays and screwdriver ToTs of MRCA, missiles etc, under the garb of Atmanirbhar Bharat.

For anything that services buy in large numbers, GoI's focus has been to make supply chains local. There's no room for just-in-time ordering from overseas suppliers. That tends to be susceptible to bureaucratic delays, corruption and political wind changes. We often question what knowhow that the local assembler gains in the ToT.

For the answer we must look at serviceability rates for Su-30s and Mig-29s in the old days and now. And see the impact of, or lack thereof, Ukraine war. Any and all dependencies are being looked at. Either larger quantities are being ordered, or getting added to local list. So much so that HAL is confident in its ability to execute Super Sukhoi project and even pitch it to other countries. This will be a big first. Last 3 major upgrade projects for Bison, M2Ks, Mig-29UPG all required airframes going to OEM and subsequent ones receiving kits. All because we are looking to do everything in India.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Nov 2023 20:41

IAF’s Combat Fleet: The 80-Year Journey to 42 Squadrons
https://iafhistory.in/2023/07/09/iafs-c ... squadrons/
09 July 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Nov 2023 06:43

UP and Haryana to get MQ-9B Sky Guardian Bases in India
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/11/up-a ... -in-india/
05 Nov 2023

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 06 Nov 2023 17:27

Guess these 12 will be upgraded with our own avionics, M/C, AESA, MAWS etc as well ?

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 06 Nov 2023 19:16

Rakesh wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023 06:43 UP and Haryana to get MQ-9B Sky Guardian Bases in India
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/11/up-a ... -in-india/
05 Nov 2023

Headline says UP and Haryana while the actual article says Saraswa and Gorakhpur which are both UP.

vikassh · Post by **vikassh** » 07 Nov 2023 03:05

AkshaySG wrote: ↑16 Jul 1970 21:43Headline says UP and Haryana while the actual article says Saraswa and Gorakhpur which are both UP.

Probably they meant Sirsa in Haryana which rhymes quite closely with the Sarsawa. That’s my guess.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Nov 2023 17:23

Yes there's an air force station in Sirsa. I believe the accidental firing of Brahmos was from here.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Nov 2023 21:17

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1722 ... 52362?s=20 ---> Indian Air Force has released a RFI for the integration of Stand Off Weapon (SoW) with 180+ km of range on MiG-29 fighters. The complete integration activity with a certified bomb rack is to be completed within 12 months of signing of contract under Buy (Indian-IDDM) and Buy (Indian) cases.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Nov 2023 04:23

https://x.com/hqwaciaf/status/1722220699262275864?s=20 ---> Air Marshal PM Sinha, AOC-in-C, WAC visited Air Force Station Halwara on 07 November 2023. After conducting operational discussions, he flew a sortie in a Su-30MKI and interacted with the air warriors.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Nov 2023 19:54

https://x.com/AshishSinghNews/status/17 ... 10356?s=20 ---> JUST IN: The Indian Air Force's @Suryakiran_IAF will perform aerobatic display on 19th Nov, before the start of @cricketworldcup 2023 final at Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Spectacular scene this will be...on the ground & in the air...

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1725159 ... 59258?s=20 ---> Good to see Suryakirans being used the way they should be. They are dedicated to PR & there's no better place in India than a cricket WC final to perform & get attention. One other thing I'd like to see IAF acrobatics teams do more is go on extended standalone international tours.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Nov 2023 21:52

Rakesh wrote: ↑08 Nov 2023 21:17 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1722 ... 52362?s=20 ---> Indian Air Force has released a RFI for the integration of Stand Off Weapon (SoW) with 180+ km of range on MiG-29 fighters. The complete integration activity with a certified bomb rack is to be completed within 12 months of signing of contract under Buy (Indian-IDDM) and Buy (Indian) cases.

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/172 ... 12124?s=20 ---> Confusion regarding IAF's RFI To Integrate SoW (180+Km) with MiG-29s.

* The RFI is mainly for the Bomb Ejector Rack which can support SoW with 180+ Km range.
* As well as Russian and Western Weapons.
* Bomb Weighing up to 950 Kg
* Compatible with weapon stations 1, 2, 3 & 4

So, it is not for any specific missile or bomb.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Nov 2023 22:01

https://x.com/IAF_MCC/status/1720619128396951798?s=20 ---> Picture posted on 03 Nov 2023 on the IAF's twitter account. This is for the on-going Dubai Air Show. Attention: Sarang Helicopter Display Team outbound! Watch this space for more!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Nov 2023 19:58

Nothing to see here folks! Just another Chinese spy balloon flying over sensitive military installations!

Indian Air Force scrambled 2 Rafale fighter jets to search for 'UFO' sighted near Imphal
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 120121538/
20 Nov 2023

VIDEO: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1726545895460888704?s=20 ---> The IAF scrambled 2 Rafale fighter jets on Sunday to search for an 'UFO' sighted near Imphal Airport. However, the aircrafts could not find the UFO in the area. IAF then activated it's Air Defence respose mechanisms based on visual inputs and the UFO was not seen thereafter.

Stock Image of a Chinese spy balloon. Sorry, I meant to say Chinese weather balloon, for the "peaceful" collection of weather data

Image Source: https://x.com/VivekSi85847001/status/17 ... 25080?s=20

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Nov 2023 05:09

Air Force planning to take over 3 airstrips in Uttarakhand: Chief of Defence Staff
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2023-11-25
25 Nov 2023

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Nov 2023 10:39

WRT, the baloon being used for spying.

1) What is it that a baloon can do, that a satellite cannot do?

2) how are these things controlled, so that they are able to navigate to the specific location of interest.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 28 Nov 2023 12:04

For (1), the answer is hover-time. A balloon or something like the HAPS can literally stay above a target 24x7. A satellite cant

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 28 Nov 2023 12:58

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑28 Nov 2023 12:04 For (1), the answer is hover-time. A balloon or something like the HAPS can literally stay above a target 24x7. A satellite cant

Sir. don't geo-synchronous satellites do that? Though they need to be placed at much larger/higher distances (compared to other satellites) thus necessitating higher power optics/sensors.

One aspect is these balloons are much much cheaper to build and launch than satellites. But could be vulnerable to high altitude thermals.

And they would be relatively easier to shoot down (if you have high altitude fighters) as compared to satellites (which will need ASAT capability).

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 28 Nov 2023 14:15

Expense and resolution limitations. At 36K Kms, the optics cannot do a 30 cm resolution or detect individual moving vehicles like a LEO at 500 Km or a HAPS at 40 Km can. We can have a lot of HAPS for that money, each of which can focus on a particular area and also sniff our other ELINT, COMINT, can guide UAVs, loitering munitions etc.

LEO and HAPS are harder to shoot down than say balloons. And even for the balloon, someone like a Pakistan might not be able to do it. Doesn't have a high RCS

HAPS kind of gives us the best of both worlds: persistence of a GEO-sat and the price/protection & resolution of a LEO

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 Nov 2023 06:49

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1728736 ... 13760?s=20 ----> MBDA on ASRAAM: IAF has it integrated on the Jaguars. “Integration on contract” is underway on LCA Mk.1A. It is also suitable for other IAF aircraft.

MBDA has agreements with Bharat Dynamics Ltd for ASRAAM + Mistral ATAM final assembly, integration & test line in Hyderabad, India.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 Nov 2023 20:21

Mirage & Rafale – Fleets Add Great Value to IAF Operational Capability
https://www.indiastrategic.in/mirage-ra ... apability/
13 Nov 2023

Both the Mirage 2000 and Rafale have given the IAF Multirole, Anti-Access, Area-Denial, and Area Dominance capability. Along with the Su-30 MKI, they allow IAF’s Reach from the Malacca Strait to Gulf of Aden, and to secure the northern Indian Ocean. From Andaman and Nicobar Islands, IAF can launch missions till South China Sea with a single aerial refuelling.

Combined with the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) make a good potent combination.

Notably though, IAF is already down to 30 fighter squadrons vis-à-vis the authorised strength of 42. India has a two-front war threat. IAF urgently needs more fighter squadrons.

The Request for Proposal (RfP) for 114 new “Make-in-India” acquisition is still to be sent out.

There are media reports that the Indian Navy has shortlisted the Rafale-M as the possible aircraft for its Carrier operations. In such a scenario, perhaps the Government might consider the added numbers of Rafales for Make in India production lines to amortise costs.

Defence and Diplomacy are linked, and what India will induct is yet to be decided by the Ministry of Defence. Whatever the choice, it has to be authorised by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) headed by the Prime Minister.

IAF hopes for an early decision.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 30 Nov 2023 11:13

No.3 Cobras, operating from Nal AFS are most likely going to be the next Bison squadron that will be retiring their Bisons. But the article doesn't mention a final date as yet.

https://twitter.com/rahulsinghx/status/ ... 8262867106 ---> Midway through the last dance: MiG-21s going full steam before the air force brings the curtain down on the iconic fighter fleet that has served India for 6 decades. My report from the Nal airbase in Rajasthan - a storied ride slowing to a final stop.

IAF’s Squadron No 3 prepares for bittersweet farewell as MiG-21 gets close to its last hurrah
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 84961.html
30 Nov 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Nov 2023 19:49

Kartik wrote: ↑30 Nov 2023 11:13 No.3 Cobras, operating from Nal AFS are most likely going to be the next Bison squadron that will be retiring their Bisons. But the article doesn't mention a final date as yet.

I believe the schedule is 2024 and the last one in 2025.

It will be 62 years, when the final MiG-21 squadron is retired. End of an Era.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 30 Nov 2023 20:44

*Cross posting from the R&D thread*

Its only AoN, but a BIG DAY for Atmanirbhar today

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1981135

1) 156 Prachand
2) 97 Tejas Mk1A
3) Su-30 MKI upgrade
4) Area Denial Munition (ADM) Type-2 & 3 (no idea what this is?)
5) Towed Gun System. Presumably, this is the new version that will replace ATAGS. No numbers are mentioned
6) Automatic Target Tracker & Digital Ballistic Computer for T-90s
7) MRAShM (Medium Range Anti Ship Missile) for the Indian Navy. Is it NASM-MR?
8 ) DAP 2020 - all procurements to have minimum 50% Indian content, excepting annual maintenance

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 30 Nov 2023 20:44

Its big news day especially for the IAF because the bulk of the money is for their projects

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 01 Dec 2023 00:13

ACM's reaction to the DAC clearance

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 01 Dec 2023 03:42

No more Apaches for IAF from the video above! That means the 10 LCH performed better in testing.