Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

[Prasad]

We need more diesel-electrics and the nuclear ones to prowl further out and tail PLAN fleets. Our current and near future sub force levels are nowhere near enough for what the PLAN and PN can throw at us in the entire IOR.

[MeshaVishwas]

TS, Navy ink pact for VLF centre in Vikarabad- Deccan Chronicle

Telangana state can now boast of being the sole state in India hosting premier training institutes for all three branches of the Indian Armed Forces — the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Indian Navy has selected Telangana as the key base for establishing its second Very Low-Frequency (VLF) communication transmission station in Vikarabad.

An MoU for the setup of the VLF radar centre was signed between officials of the Eastern Naval Command and state government forest officials in the presence of Chief Minister A. Revanth Reddy at the Secretariat on Thursday.

Hyderabad already houses the Indian Army's Artillery Centre near Golconda Fort, specialising in Agniveer training, while the city is also home to the Indian Air Force's Air Force Academy in Dundigal, dedicated to pilot training.

The VLF communication transmission station, crucial for naval communication with ships and submarines, will be established in the Damagudem forest area near Puduru in Vikarabad mandal. This marks the second such station in the country, with the INS Kattabomman Radar Station in Tirunelveli, Tamil Nadu, being the first since 1990. The Eastern Naval Command in Visakhapatnam identified Telangana as a suitable area for the second radar station.

Since 2010, the Indian Navy has been in discussions with the state government for the radar station's setup. Chief Minister A. Revanth Reddy's special initiative facilitated the removal of obstacles, which had stalled the project under the previous administration. Commodore Karthik Shankar, Circle DEO Rohit Bhupathi, and Captain Sandeep Das met with the Chief Minister on Wednesday to finalise the details.

An agreement for the transfer of forest lands was signed between Vikarabad District Forest Officer and Naval Command Agency officials. The Navy has been allocated 1,174 hectares of forest land under the Damagudem Reserve Forest. Union Forest and Environment Department approved the Navy's proposals in 2014. Campa funds of Rs133.54 crore were allocated for forest land handover, and the Navy paid Rs 18.56 crore for land conservation measures.

Despite a petition filed by Damagudem Forest Protection in court to cancel the project, the court has issued orders to proceed with precautions according to government-defined conditions. The naval unit's township, featuring schools, hospitals, banks, and markets, will accommodate approximately 600 naval personnel and civilians. Strict measures will be implemented to preserve biodiversity and ecological balance in the region, including extensive planting. As part of the project, approximately 27 km of roads will be constructed around Damagundam Reserve Forest, with the new VLF centre expected to be completed by 2027.

[Pratyush]

We need more diesel-electrics and the nuclear ones to prowl further out and tail PLAN fleets. Our current and near future sub force levels are nowhere near enough for what the PLAN and PN can throw at us in the entire IOR.

Whatever you do, start building the damn boats.

[Rakesh]

Today, from the Twitter account of Naval Group.

https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1750819 ... 71905?s=20 ---> ​On 23 January 2023, Naval Group signed an agreement to cooperate with DRDO to integrate an indigenous Fuel Cell-based Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) on the Kalvari Class submarines.

https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1750819 ... 38650?s=20 ---> This agreement illustrates the strength of our technological partnership with India, and shows our commitment to help the Indian Navy acquire cutting-edge capabilities to achieve superiority in the challenging undersea domain.

https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1750819 ... 34836?s=20 ---> This Indian-developed AIP brings a force multiplier effect on the lethality of a diesel-electric submarine as it enhances the submerged endurance by several folds.

https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1750819 ... 01592?s=20 ---> It is performant and unique as the hydrogen is generated onboard, removing the need to refuel and store it on the submarines. This technology has been successfully developed by Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL) with the support of Indian industry partners.

[MeshaVishwas]

NauSena rendering aid to MV Marlin Luanda.
This ranks right up there with the VayuSena's daring rescue from Sudan.
A big thank you to the creator of this channel for the breakdown.
Sha No Varunaha!

[Rakesh]

Admiral R Hari Kumar Exclusive Interview: Indian Navy's 'Self Reliant India' Resolution

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy to showcase twin carrier operations with Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on board
https://defence.in/threads/indian-navy- ... oard.3234/
28 Jan 2024

[SBajwa]

INS Sumitra rescues 18 Pakistanis from Somalian pirates.

[Vivek K]

Why? So they can kill our citizens?

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy: A Deterrent Force in Arabian Sea

[KL Dubey]

INS Sumitra rescues 18 Pakistanis from Somalian pirates.

This seems a bit odd...yesterday the news was only that INS Sumitra rescued an Iranian-flagged vessel. Strange that an Iranian vessel is being operated by Paastanis. Maybe they are Baloch fishermen based in Iran...I think there are many Baloch in that region holding multiple nationality (Pak/Iran/Oman).

[SBajwa]

INS Sumitra rescues 18 Pakistanis from Somalian pirates.

This seems a bit odd...yesterday the news was only that INS Sumitra rescued an Iranian-flagged vessel. Strange that an Iranian vessel is being operated by Paastanis. Maybe they are Baloch fishermen based in Iran...I think there are many Baloch in that region holding multiple nationality (Pak/Iran/Oman).

INS Sumitra has conducted at least two operations in last 48 hours check this copy/paste from news. Two fishing vessels both with IRanian flag with one Iranian crew and another with Pakistani crew. FV Iman and Al Naeemi. I am guessing that they use Iranian flag to show Houthis that they are "Shias" so don't target them. Question is what are they doing so far catching fish from Somalian coast?

"Indian naval ship Sumitra, having thwarted the piracy attempt on FV Iman, has carried out yet another successful anti-piracy operation off the east coast of Somalia, rescuing fishing vessel Al Naeemi and her 19 Pakistani crew from 11 Somali pirates," Navy spokesperson Commander Vivek Madhwal said.

The warship had responded to a distress call from FV Iman on January 28 and rescued the vessel and its 17 Iranian crew members from armed pirates.

[KL Dubey]

INS Sumitra has conducted at least two operations in last 48 hours check this copy/paste from news. Two fishing vessels both with IRanian flag with one Iranian crew and another with Pakistani crew. FV Iman and Al Naeemi. I am guessing that they use Iranian flag to show Houthis that they are "Shias" so don't target them. Question is what are they doing so far catching fish from Somalian coast?

Thanks. It's now 3 operations...a Sri Lanka trawler was also rescued by two coast guard ships and sea guardian drones. Nau sena is kicking azz out there in the Indian Ocean.

[Manish_P]

..
Thanks. It's now 3 operations...a Sri Lanka trawler was also rescued by two coast guard ships and sea guardian drones. Nau sena is kicking azz out there in the Indian Ocean.

Another way of looking at it is the Chinese/Iranian combo have got Indian Navy assets tied up in the Arabian sea at a relatively low cost for themselves.

We need many more naval assets. Ships and Subs on the eastern and southern sea fronts.

[Pratyush]

^^^

Excellent observation, we have multiple high end warships and offshore petrol vessels running arround performing such rescue operations.

This only underscores the requirement of a larger fleet for the Indian Navy.

[ashthor]

Cant it be done by the Coast Guard?

[srai]

11 x NGOPV under order

Probably require more of this class

[srai]

Cant it be done by the Coast Guard?

Coast Guard primarily for within Indian EEZ

[Pratyush]

11 x NGOPV under order

Probably require more of this class

True. However, once the shooting starts you will require defensive capacity for keeping the sea lanes open in places such as Red Sea. A capacity lacking in a typical OPV.

But whatever we do, as our sea borne trade expands, we require a larger fleet to protect our shipping and keeping our sea lanes open.

[Pratyush]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Gene ... le_Vessels

The next generation missile vessels look very enticing for operations in red sea area.

Armament includes 32 VLSAM, 8 VL Brahmos. Plus the 76 mm super rapid gun mount.

[ashthor]

Cant it be done by the Coast Guard?

Coast Guard primarily for within Indian EEZ

Why cant coast guard also do some anti piracy? They can certainly gain from experience. If their
mandate/charter is a problem the they could work under the navy.

[Pratyush]

1) The Indian coast guard lacks the ships with range to operate in the specific region.

2) Currently the operational environment is benign. If the Houthies, decide that they want to go to war with all kafirs. Your OPV and coast guard ships become liabilities in the region.

The Indian Navy needs to grow to 350 ship navy sooner rather than later.

[Manish_P]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Gene ... le_Vessels

The next generation missile vessels look very enticing for operations in red sea area.

Armament includes 32 VLSAM, 8 VL Brahmos. Plus the 76 mm super rapid gun mount.

Don't forget the CIWS sir.

Quite important for counter drone/subsonic missiles

[Pratyush]

Why Indian Navy needs a smaller frigate? (Talwar class sized)
https://battlemachines.org/2023/11/17/w ... ass-sized/
17 Nov 2023

The armament of the next generation missile vessels on a 4000 tons displacement ship with added ASW capacity and 2x10 tons helicopters will be an extremely capable low end ship. It will not be that much more expensive than the next generation missile vessels.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1752 ... 06908?s=20 ---> Paras Defence and Space Technologies has won the contract for Design, Optimization, Fabrication and Qualification of Optical Periscopes from IRDE, DRDO amounting to approximate Rs 53 Crores.

[drnayar]

thought non hull penetrating optoelectronic masts are the new gen sensors !

[pravula]

Cant it be done by the Coast Guard?

Coast Guard primarily for within Indian EEZ

Are you saying India should expand its EEZ?

[chetak]

Coast Guard primarily for within Indian EEZ

Are you saying India should expand its EEZ?

pravula ji,

The ICG has always had a dual role.

[pravula]

No ji for me. Yes, I was implying that. CG is not restricted to EEZ when needed. It's not like the "boats" stop once it crosses the EEZ.

[Pratyush]

Coast Guard primarily for within Indian EEZ

Are you saying India should expand its EEZ?

India needs to grow it's Navy. Keeping our sea lanes clear is the job of the Navy. Coast guard can be subordinate to the Indian Navy during times of war. But currently they don't have the capacity to operate out of area.

[Pratyush]

No ji for me. Yes, I was implying that. CG is not restricted to EEZ when needed. It's not like the "boats" stop once it crosses the EEZ.

The major limitation of the Indian coast guard equipment is that the ships are mostly for operations in India's immediate periphery. They don't have ships with the required endurance to operate out of area. Nor are the ships capable of accepting defensive guided weapons to operate out of area.

Having said that, once you are aiming cost guard ships with missiles, you are better off with naval ships in the area of operations.

[chetak]

@ShivAroor·15h

Watch till the end! Terrific video of the @IndianNavy’s rescue of 19 Pakistani men in their fishing boat after it was taken over by Somalian pirates this week.



WATCH VIDEO



Indian Navy is sharing the video's of its anti piracy missions on social media.

This allows us not only to get an edge in the narrative building space on a global level, it also helps in adding immeasurably not only to our geopolitical visibility, and regional goodwill, but also taps into the extra regional gratitude of other nations, whose ships, while operating in this region, are also being protected by the IN

[srai]

No ji for me. Yes, I was implying that. CG is not restricted to EEZ when needed. It's not like the "boats" stop once it crosses the EEZ.

Peacetime role is policing EEZ. Their equipment reflects as such. Operating beyond EEZ is an exception rather than the norm.

Wartime every “armed” organizations expand their operations beyond their peacetime roles. Not just CG.

BTW, Indian EEZ is 2,305,143 square kilometres (890,021 sq mi).

[Rakesh]

India's Navy Has Arrived
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ved-208922
28 January 2024

[pravula]

@sai, Anti-piracy is policing right?

[Manish_P]

@sai, Anti-piracy is policing right?

IMHO, not when the 'Pirates' are essentially state supported terrorists, using sophisticated military grade weapons and equipment backed by state systems (recce, tracking, guidance) and apparatus (protection - military and political).

[Bala Vignesh]

^^^

Excellent observation, we have multiple high end warships and offshore petrol vessels running arround performing such rescue operations.

This only underscores the requirement of a larger fleet for the Indian Navy.

My personal opinion on this is to have a an lengthend Saryu class with the below fitting to make it a more rounded light frigate, most would be in built-for-but-not-fitted with condition:
1. 36-48 cell VLS. Peace time ops can have 12-18 loaded for immediate protection.
2. 2 dual torpedo tubes.
3. 20mm/30mm remote controlled canons on both sides to engage swarms for fast boats or drones.

A modular mission bay of 2TEU would be icing on the cake

[Bala Vignesh]

No ji for me. Yes, I was implying that. CG is not restricted to EEZ when needed. It's not like the "boats" stop once it crosses the EEZ.

The major limitation of the Indian coast guard equipment is that the ships are mostly for operations in India's immediate periphery. They don't have ships with the required endurance to operate out of area. Nor are the ships capable of accepting defensive guided weapons to operate out of area.

Having said that, once you are aiming cost guard ships with missiles, you are better off with naval ships in the area of operations.

ICG has the Sankalp class, the Samarth class, Vikram class and the Vishwast class which are over 1.8Kt in displacement and have a range from 4000nmi to 6500nmi, more than enough to patrol out to the west coast of the gulf of Aden and back even on the lower number. If we do a port call in Oman, Eritrea or Djibouti, the above classes of ICG ships can handle the anti piracy missions.

For the current situation of houthi rebels resorting to piracy, a slightly beefed up Saryu class would be more than enough to handle this. We need numbers of adequately good enough ships to free up our major surface combatants to do other activities, even if they remain in the same AO.

[chetak]

Are you saying India should expand its EEZ?

India needs to grow it's Navy. Keeping our sea lanes clear is the job of the Navy. Coast guard can be subordinate to the Indian Navy during times of war. But currently they don't have the capacity to operate out of area.

Pratyush ji,

in the event of the fertilizer hitting the rotating mechanism fixed on the ceiling, the contingency plans and SOPs have already been laid out

The CG will be tasked to operate under the coordinated command of the IN which will undoubtedly deploy these platforms in a manner well suited to their capabilities and also, at the same time, keeping in mind their safety in potentially hostile waters. Senior CG officers will always be kept in the loop per SOPs already tried and agreed upon

The responsibility of maintaining the required supply chains to sustain such operations will be that of the IN where required and in coordination with a large number of agencies which have already been identified and tasked.

The CG supply chains will also be integrated to augment resources where possible. The CG is used to operating from far flung and isolated bases and has developed its own supply chains to sustain their operations

The operations of organizations like the BSF etc will be coordinated by the IA per SOPs already laid out.

The command and control mechanisms of the armed forces have developed organically and have also been refined over the decades and are suited mostly for large scale big picture operations but Unit level ops are still their mainstay capability.

The intelligence inputs and the sources thereof, interpretive abilities, access to aviation, and satellite assets and the skill set resources of these entities are endowed with are very different, reflecting their differing roles and distinct responsibilities.

No one is going to place missiles on CG ships unless they are the shoulder fired variety and only in those areas where such threats are perceived to be present.

[srai]

@sai, Anti-piracy is policing right?

Answer is obvious. Are you asking some “loaded” question?

55-60 ships ensure security every day: Coast Guard DG