Can India Trust The United States As A Strategic Partner?

[Rudradev]

In light of everything we've seen over the last 5 years, and in particular the last two weeks, please provide your thoughts on the poll question.

[nachiket]

They have never been a Strategic Partner and will not be in the near future. US-India relationship over the years has moved between friendly to neutral to antagonistic with the nadir of course being 1971 and the Nixon-Kissinger years. Now we are living in the friendly times. But nothing more. The only strategic partners the US has are the NATO countries and even they can be punished like Turkey (F-35 ban) for pissing off massa. So maybe even reduce that list to the west europeans and fellow anglo-saxon countries (Aus/NZ) plus perhaps Israel (for now).

[Adrija]

The US always needs an enemy. After USSR it is now China and after China it will be us; in fact, perhaps even before- it is quite possible that US reverts to the G2 continuum if/ once XI is overthrown and China and US reach an agreement. They are culturally and economically quite similar and complementary, and once China agrees to the G2 which they would do gladly, then their combined beady gaze would turn on us........ our culture is very different and the US proselytization zealotry will gleefully pounce. I would in fact submit that they are already doing so albeit low key

JMT

[wig]

in politics, one doubts you can trust any person, leave alone a nation. Nations can have convergence on interests as issues arise.

[jamwal]

Anyone who has an account here and still voted for option one should be lashed in public and sent to a re-education facility. Voters of number 2 should be circumcised without anesthesia.

[Pratyush]

Voted yes, but with several caveats.

1) we need it for the next 15 years.
2) for all the stupidity displayed by the US. It is still the most powerful country for the time being.
3) the deep state has to make a decision. What is more important to them. Bringing India down. Or preserving it's own power in Asia and the world. I think that they will choose to preserve their own power.
4) India has to build it's own MIC. We have under 10 years to get it done.

[Pratyush]

Anyone who has an account here and still voted for option one should be lashed in public and sent to a re-education facility. Voters of number 2 should be circumcised without anesthesia.

Unacceptable to the conduct of free and fair polls.

[Cyrano]

Anyone who has an account here and still voted for option one should be lashed in public and sent to a re-education facility. Voters of number 2 should be circumcised without anesthesia.

[Najunamar]

Voted No, but caveat is US cannot afford to lose India from its camp and will literally come begging in just about a decade and a half.

[g.sarkar]

Can the US be trusted? No.
Once Winston Churchill said that he got more out of alcohol than alcohol got out of him. India has to get more out of the US than the US can get out of India.
Gautam

[vimal]

Whats the point of this poll? Aren't nation states supposed to work for their self interest? Or are we looking for tallel than moontain kind of relationship.

[vera_k]

Voted no. NATO was just sold out in Afghanistan because of domestic political compulsions.

[Santosh]

Only option for India is to grow a pair. Define red lines and enforce them with force if necessary - whether it is Papistan, Afganistan, China, Lanka or Bangladesh. Womanmohan singh (no offense to women) was so weak that strangers gate crashed his dinner lunch meeting with obama. That was some sign. Modi OTOH is different. World leaders seek his alignment and views. India cannot appear to be weak. Once India appears strong, countries including US will seek strategic partnership with India rather than v-v.

[bharathp]

why should any one trust US or any country for that matter? I find the question and the answers not really aligning with MEA's posture:
1) multi polar world
2) join forces when your strategic interests match.

we dont join forces because we are allies
we join forces because we have a common goal.

question is, do we recognize the common goal at the same time?

[ramana]

Forget India. Can NATO or Japan or So Korea or Taiwan who all have treaties with the US trust them?
In six months they will get out of South China Sea.
This is like Rome cut and run from Britannia in 400AD.
It is as fundamental as that.

[williams]

Let's talk International Indian interests:

1. Subcontinent free from terrorism, especially islamic terrorism.
2. Fare resolution to border disputes both with China and Pakistan
3. Free and fair trade access
4. Rule based international order
5. Enhanced influence in IOR
6. Rightful place in the techno-economic world forums

Now let us see where does US interest converge.
1. They are interested in their interest safeguarded against terrorism and don't care much about Indians suffering from terrorism.
2. They want India to be bogged down in issue 2. So no help there
3. There is a grudding trade relationship and given a chance they will run behind China
4 . May be there is some convergence there.
5. Forget about it.
6. They throw a bone here and there to satisfy our ego once a while

This does not sound like a trusting strategic partner. It sounds like a grudgingly distrustful neutral relationship that needs to be delicately managed.

[A Deshmukh]

US thinks it can control M fundamentalists (as it is funding Pak army and ISI).
they think these jihadis can be used to bring down any other wannbe superpower - Russia earlier and now Chin or India.

[uskumar]

Forget India. Can NATO or Japan or So Korea or Taiwan who all have treaties with the US trust them?
In six months they will get out of South China Sea.

this is exactly what I thought post their afg withdrawal. Taiwan should be afraid, very afraid. I think it's very clear that US cares about nothing and no one in its quest to dominate the world. at the right Price, they will sell Taiwan to China. I afraid that Price might be G2 with China being equal partner.

[SandeepA]

Strategic Partner is not necessarily a Natural Ally. The policy dance from Obama to Trump to Biden is akin to what used to happen in TN with K'nidhi and Jaya. Cant bank on them anymore

[nam]

We Indians need to stop getting emotional about international relations. It is all transactional.

Even the Chinese didn't trust the US in 71. But they were smart enough to make lot of money out of the relationship,. If not for their shooting the crowd incident, PLA today would have been using American kit.

What is the worst that US can do in terms of "back stabbing", which we all so much fear? Selling more weapons to Pak? Give more money to Pak? Not sanction Pak?

what difference will it make to a 5T GDP India? Pak terrorists attack us, we attack Pak. Simple as that. US can pass any platitude it wants.

I find it strange that we don't seem to have any problem with Russia selling top notch kit to China and trying to tell us "to adjust" or now supporting Pak's adventures.

Let's focus our objectives -> A 10T GDP India being a alternate to China. Does it requrie k***ing US a**? so be it.

[SBajwa]

You have no friends only enemies and your strategic goals and national interests to take care off.

I think NAMO made a mistake by putting sanctions on Iran as wished by Mr Trump. China is still getting oil from Iran. While the Chahbahar port now is totally with Iranians.

[kit]

I think the idea of any country being a "strategic partner" is not valid., did India ever had one? even USSR was not one in its hey days. The more pertinent idea being to engage with large economies in the best interests of the nation., not giving off ones own economy advantages as in the case we did with ASEAN., use whatever influence we need to political, economic and..military to achieve these objectives. China did this, India floundered quite a bit because of UPA

France is being called one ., but is it ..really ? The Israelis .. may be to some extent as there are political objectives linking to military .. so essentially its all a convergence of interests no less

To achieve this convergence there needs to be a cohesion of policy along foreign policy economic and military planners within India to start with

[kit]

Let's focus our objectives -> A 10T GDP India being a alternate to China. Does it requrie k***ing US a**? so be it.

China was able to do this and bide its time., but India s basic structure does not allow this

[chetak]

Anyone who has an account here and still voted for option one should be lashed in public and sent to a re-education facility. Voters of number 2 should be circumcised without anesthesia.

the brf main site shura is talibani in nature

[nam]

China was able to do this and bide its time., but India s basic structure does not allow this

India today is a 3T GDP economy. In 91 we were on the verge on becoming a failed state.

Would US, SK, Taiwan, Japan companies move from China to India, in return for we keeping China busy on LAC? I am sure we can do that.

Will these countries do things we don't like and back stab us by cosy up with Pak, like Russia? Ofcourse they will. However for us, as long as we are making money, we don't give a toss.

We can bring in morality once the GDP reach 10T.

[nam]

There are only two countries in this world, which have enough money to make us rich. US & China. Luckily for us one is the enemy of other, including a enemy of us.

US goes around making a mess. Not our problem. NYT & Time write propaganda against us? Big deal. It costed China only 750K to bribe Time magazine to shut their mouth. Quite cheap.

Even a 5T India will be able to buy off the lot. So let's focus on the money.

[chetak]

There are only two countries in this world, which have enough money to make us rich. US & China. Luckily for us one is the enemy of other, including a enemy of us.

US goes around making a mess. Not our problem. NYT & Time write propaganda against us? Big deal. It costed China only 750K to bribe Time magazine to shut their mouth. Quite cheap.

Even a 5T India will be able to buy off the lot. So let's focus on the money.

It's not such an easy explanation, saar.

India, for them, was never about the money.

There are deep seated animosities based on religious and civilizational issues at play and the desert cults' wilful propagation of "othering" which is socially and culturally constructed.

Their core books have "borrowed" quite heavily from the Hindu texts, philosophies and metaphysical concepts, disguised rather ham handedly because of the thief's lack of cultural depth and intellectual heft to understand and assimilate and then finally acculturate seamlessly.

in other words, traceable and discernable outside influences heavily contaminated the crime scene

They consciously evade mention of the word Hindu/Hinduism in any of their discussions and instead attempt to slyly substitute it by using the word buddhist.

The reason that these media houses fear the cheeni is the enormous leverage that the hans have acquired in the US economic arena, over the years, and the malevolent capacity in affecting the lives of ordinary amerikis.

In short, the hans are doing to the amerikis what the UK and the US did to others in their heydays

these same media houses will not sell out to India under any circumstances because their deep states and the allied ecclesiological doctrines have a very different, long running and deep seated agenda planned out for the Hindus. The agenda of the hans as well as the goras for the Hindus is the same and here they are aligned perfectly with the (additional) religion of marx thrown to the mix.

To my mind, the britshits trotted out the aryan race and aryan invasion myth from their deeply felt need to assuage their feelings of utter inferiority when faced for the very first time with the pristine purity of the philosophy of the Hindus as well as the perfection of sanskrit.

The science and the math left them dazed because the smarter ones soon realized that a lot of what they were dishonestly parading as their very own had been stolen from us at various times, via various routes, without any attribution. Undeniable evidence in the form of undisputed primary sources stared them in the face.

So, left with no option, they manufactured "evidence" to suit their narrative while negating our own ancient narrative

They are still trying to suppress us after four centuries. That should give you an idea of the enormity of wound that was inflicted on their racist world view, as well as, their fragile psyche.

That's why the western media, as well as, their academia, will never support us

kitne ghazi aaye..., kitne ghazi gaye...

[nam]

Whatever be plan, just like the Chinese, we need to learn to milk the cow. Americans in the deep state hate us? so be it. as long as they are outsourcing billion dollar IT projects to TCS & Infy.

Since the Chinese have now crossed the 10T mark, no amount of raving and ranting and scheming by US is having any effect on the Chinese. The Chinese were called all sorts of name.
Americans and Europeans are now queuing up to provide excuses to cover up Chinese wrong doing.. all for a right amount of renminbi. We have seen the number of professors arrested for hiding their involvement with China. Not to mention Nike's CEO..

If US can use and throw countries.. why can't we?

Here is a wonderful example of changing colors...it took them just a week.
https://twitter.com/javedhassan/status/ ... 6302524419

[kit]

Here is a wonderful example of changing colors...it took them just a week.
https://twitter.com/javedhassan/status/ ... 6302524419

see what wiki had to say about the "good" general

"Carter has been criticised on several occasions by American officers for his conduct and command while in Afghanistan. He was described by Colonel Harry Tunnell, former Brigade Commander of 5/2 Stryker Brigade Combat Team, as displaying a "gross lack of concern for subordinates" throughout his command in Afghanistan in 2009 and 2010.[51] Further criticism came from Lieutenant General Daniel P. Bolger, who claimed that "young riflemen paid the price" for Carter's "risk-averse" mentality and his unwillingness to allow his troops to defend themselves. Bolger also claimed that Carter refused to visit the front line and only visited safe positions by helicopter, while frequently refusing requests for aircraft and artillery support from troops under his command. Bolger further stated, "He's not the type of general I would put in charge of anything."

[Rishirishi]

Depends on what we mean by trust.

If anyone thinks USA will go against their interest, I suggest they look at history.

USA needs India, to counter China. But if China is defeted, then India will be in line to become the next target. Because only India has the potential to overtake USA.

In a bizarre way, India needs China to counter being targeted itself. India will easy to break with all the fractions and open society.


But, I think the transfer of global dominance from UK to USA is interesting to study. If there is a lot at stake for USA in maintaining and Indo-USA relationsship, then the transfer of global dominance may take place peacefully. But India will have to play it very shrewdly. Promote Gandhiwadi'ism worldwide and stand up for the poor nations. And above all, not to be a threat to USA. India needs to become the closest ally of USA. I know this may boil the blood of some people. But look at the history. It pays to be an ally of the USA.

[Rakesh]

Thank you to Rudradev-ji for this thread.

With the ardent support for an American fighter to join the IAF, I am surprised why the usual players have not voiced their opinion I thought the "YES" vote would have been a lot higher.

Friendships and Partnership are fine to have, including with the US. However that must not come at the expense of India's rise.

[Mort Walker]

Admiral,

Some of us always wanted at least 400 Tejas of any variant, and always NO to American, French and Russian aircraft. We need to produce 1 Tejas a week and raise 2 squadrons a year until 2030.

[Rakesh]

Mort-ji, I don't want to derail Rudradev-ji's thread...so that is a discussion best continued in the MMRCA thread in the Military forum.

I was just surprised at the low number of YES votes, in response to Rudradev-ji's poll question ---> Can India Trust The United States As A Strategic Partner?

With the fanatical support of an American fighter, flying in Indian colours, I thought these posters would have shown more grit.

Regardless, the true test of this strategic partnership will come with the arrival of the S-400 this year or early next.

[ramana]

Later this year.

[kit]

There are only two countries in this world, which have enough money to make us rich. US & China. . .

Which country did China make rich ? Their bbf pakis ?

[rsingh]

Without reading any post, my answer to this thread.
NO. We can not trust America. We have never trusted America. We have used America. Thought that they can influence us but we used them instead. I can write many paragraphs on this. But every reasonable person knows this.

[Vayutuvan]

No. Betteridge's Law of Headlines

[Vayutuvan]

Now we are living in the friendly times. But nothing more.

I would say we are close to or already in the neutral zone.

[Vayutuvan]

US thinks it can control M fundamentalists (as it is funding Pak army and ISI).
they think these jihadis can be used to bring down any other wannbe superpower - Russia earlier and now Chin or India.

Don't forget that they "donated" US$85 billion worth of arms to Taliban. Those arms are going to have repercussions throughout the world for a long time to come.

[Vayutuvan]

India today is a 3T GDP economy. In 91 we were on the verge on becoming a failed state.

'91 on the verge of becoming a "failed state"? We would have defaulted on the interest or whatever other economic crises that would have entailed, but "failed state" is too much of a stretch.