Russian-Ukranian War: Geopolitical Fallout

[sanman]

Macron is dreaming of making EU a nation state and himself as his head after his current second and last term ends as French President. That's why these statements.

Macron will be thrown out and replaced with LePen.

France will begin its pushback against EU encroachment as well as US encroachment.
She will also put an end to French support for the West's war on Russia.

Her domestic and EU opponents will accuse her of being a Kremlin stooge, just like they did to Trump.

[Cyrano]

LoL !

[Pratyush]

I am afraid that the west has gone too far for it to be saved.

Over 50 years of commie education and leftist bias have taken it's toll. Macron, if he has to have any credibility. Needs to speak to the Germans and start getting out of Ukrainian adventure.

Absent such an action. It's only words. Europe will keep on sinking.

Second, LePenn will not be able to defeat whoever is going to succeed Macron. Her support base has maxed out. Unless the pain becomes unbearable for the common people they are not going vote for an alternative.

[Aditya_V]

I am afraid that the west has gone too far for it to be saved.

Over 50 years of commie education and leftist bias have taken it's toll. Macron, if he has to have any credibility. Needs to speak to the Germans and start getting out of Ukrainian adventure.

Absent such an action. It's only words. Europe will keep on sinking.

Second, LePenn will not be able to defeat whoever is going to succeed Macron. Her support base has maxed out. Unless the pain becomes unbearable for the common people they are not going vote for an alternative.

I am sorry the west has a very low M population- the Indian Sub continent has 39% population, which is an easier target- the only thing that protected us was we are too poor.

Europe did not come to India to trade in spices, but after Materials, Slaves and loot which gave the Islamists power, it was this loot Europe tried coming to India , a by product was the complete eradication of the Native Americans, and Africa suffering from the slave trade. The east Asians are real lucky we were in between.

European rulers are just exposing these guys to keep immigration quotas in place so that thier population does not become too soft.

[drnayar]

EU would keep spending in ukreen and sink the EU boat .. the politicians like de lying would have rich pickings to live off in the US and elsewhere

[srai]

X-Post from the Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy thread...

An entire generation of Ukrainians are no longer alive due to Zelensky's stupidity.
…

So has Russia lost a generation too.

What was Ukraine supposed to do when invaded?

Both sides are going to continue to suffer tremendous losses for a long while yet. War is not ending any time soon.

[sanman]

So has Russia lost a generation too.

What was Ukraine supposed to do when invaded?

Both sides are going to continue to suffer tremendous losses for a long while yet. War is not ending any time soon.

Russia has taken significant losses, no doubt - but not as heavy as smaller Ukraine. Headstrong Ukrainians have wiped themselves off the map.
National version of Darwin Award.

This is an old video from CaspianReport from a year ago - but especially pay attention from 8:17 onwards

https://youtu.be/A9m7EtNXipk?t=496

Now that's a very unprecedented approach. We'd better watch out in case China tries that too (I'm pretty sure China's already ahead in their planning)

[Pratyush]

^^^
Russia had the opportunity for a quick win (within few weeks/months) at the opening phase two years ago. But they underestimated how many troops they actually required.

Snip....

The actual fact is that the Russians were interested in a diplomatic solution. Hence the Istanbul discussions. Apparently the Ukrainian side has agreed to the Russian terms. But then the western powers intervened and assured the Ukrainians support for as long as necessary.

So here we are.

A bloody fight to the finish.

[drnayar]

https://theprint.in/defence/russia-ukra ... r/2056134/

Russia-Ukraine war a gold mine for US, British defence firms — sales rocket, stock prices soar

In other words, we’re helping Ukraine while at the same time investing in our own industrial base, strengthening our own national security, and supporting jobs in nearly 40 states all across America,” Biden said.

[sanman]

^^^
Russia had the opportunity for a quick win (within few weeks/months) at the opening phase two years ago. But they underestimated how many troops they actually required.

I think Putin was just pulling his punches and deliberately took a softer initial approach which failed badly.
But now we can see the Russians have recovered from this and are going to bulldoze their way to victory.

Modi amateurishly counseled Putin not to use nukes - CIA chief William Burns said so, and praised this.
But we can see that American gratitude is momentary and fleeting. We should have said nothing, and let Putin have at it.

The whole Russia-Ukraine conflict has been going on for more than a decade already. Last two years have been a full fledged war.

US has instigated/created the war, Putin has merely taken it to a level where US cannot sustain it.

Now it has become a war of attrition and who will outlast whom. Both sides not backing down. I don’t see a resolution anytime soon.

You cannot outlast the Russians. Germans found this out the hard way.

OoKrayyEenas will collapse by the Fall, and won't make it past year end.

[srai]

^^^
There is a difference in will to fight when it is your country you are defending vs invading.

Let’s see if your year-end prediction comes true. If not, then let’s circle back and let us know why it didn’t happen.

[sanman]

^^^
There is a difference in will to fight when it is your country you are defending vs invading.

Let’s see if your year-end prediction comes true. If not, then let’s circle back and let us know why it didn’t happen.

Ethnic Russians are certainly native to the soil of Ukraine, where they've lived for many centuries - longer than the US has even existed.
Remember that eastern Ukraine simply used to be western Russia, just as western Ukraine used to be eastern Poland.
Both Poland and Russia used to refer to their respective portions as their "borderlands" (the word "Ukraine" means borderland)

There are even ethnic Russians inside the Ukrainian military.

But now even these much-vaunted Azov battalions are refusing to fight. They know they're being sent to their deaths against superior Russian firepower.
Russians are outproducing the entire West on artillery by 3-to-1.

Ukraine is on its last legs - even with the $61B American aid package, they simply don't have the manpower.

The Russians will take the entire Black Sea coast, including the major city of Odessa, and link up with Transniestra. They'll likely go all the way up to the Dniepr river.
The remaining Ukraine rump state - whatever's left of it - will be a basketcase perpetually dependent on western aid.

[Yogi_G]

A major aspect of the psych warfare used to be provided by Hollywood in the past. Rambo 1 and 2 for Vietnam (a white lusting Vitnamese woman wanting to flee to freedom/USA along with John, Rambo 3 dedicated to the "gallant people of Afghanistan (lol)". Framing public opinion off the battlefield was outsourced to Hollywood. I am surprised that no movies on this theme have happened apart from the usual Oscar/protest shananigans. The only remote coverage I remember is in the Transporter series where a Ukraininian woman lusts on the hero and bad mouths the "evil" Russians. She claims Ukrainians and Russians are two different peoples in the mind and in the heart. She took offence to being considered the same as the Russians.

What happened to Hollywood's mojo in being the propaganda mouthpiece of the Anglo Saxon world? That said a recent Russkie movie I saw on the Serbian conflict was excellent and I learnt many aspects of the conflict I never knew about.

[srai]

sanman,

History of peoples and regions are much more complex than what you state in few words.

[Rakesh]

When replying to posts, please quote the poster when replying. It helps readers who are following the thread.

Thank you for your co-operation.

So has Russia lost a generation too.

From Wiki Chacha --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

The death toll in World War 2

Military Dead (Allies): Over 16,000,000
Military Dead (Axis): Over 8,000,000

The last time I checked the history of World War 2, the Allies won. Nobody talks about the fact that the Allies lost more men than the Axis.

The war in Ukraine was an un-necessary conflict that led "Dimwit" Zelensky into murdering his own people. Russia will come out of this conflict and survive. I don't share that optimism for Ukraine.

What was Ukraine supposed to do when invaded?

Perhaps not have Ukraine join NATO, even if it was just a promissory note?

Putin made it amply clear - on multiple occasions, over decades - that would be a red flag and an open invitation for war.

But the war mongers in DC never listen do they? Republicans (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz) and Democrats (Nuland) all sleep in the same bed.

When Krushchev parked ICBMs in Cuba, that was a red flag for America. When NATO wants to do the same in Ukraine, Putin is now Satan? Come on!

Stop drinking the American Kool Aid.

Both sides are going to continue to suffer tremendous losses for a long while yet. War is not ending any time soon.

The longer this continues, the greater the embarrassment for the West and for Zelensky.

sanman,

History of peoples and regions are much more complex than what you state in few words.

I honestly hope the war mongers in DC followed that advice before invading Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.

Who profited off these wars, other than their MIC (Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc)?

The futile exercise of nation building, Western democracy, regime change, etc - in other countries - has worked out how well for the American citizen i.e. white farm boys from Iowa, Idaho or the urban black man from the American cities? Many of these young men have severe PTSD or are on wheelchairs with tubes attached to their trachea.

[Manish_P]

From Wiki Chacha --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

The death toll in World War 2

Military Dead (Allies): Over 16,000,000
Military Dead (Axis): Over 8,000,000

The last time I checked the history of World War 2, the Allies won. Nobody talks about the fact that the Allies lost more men than the Axis.
...

Out of the 16,000,000 dead, how many Americans and British?

The rest don't really matter... for the americans



Image source - Wikipedia - World war 2 casualities

[Rakesh]

Out of the 16,000,000 dead, how many Americans and British?

The rest don't really matter... for the americans

That is not the point *IF* victory in war is based on how many died, then the Allies should have lost the Second World War. But that is not happened, is it? Even your own graph states that fact.

There is very little (if any) of young Ukrainians left to fight. And Russia will not secede any territory that they have gained in Ukraine.

What is left for Ukraine that they can claim any sort of victory? What was the point of this conflict?

This is Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam redux.

[srai]

Rakesh quote

…
Stop drinking the American Kool Aid.
…

That bit unnecessary. No need to make it personal.

Just because one has a different viewpoint doesn’t necessarily mean they believe a simple opposite. It’s not black or white. There are many shades of grey in between.

[Manish_P]

...
That is not the point *IF* victory in war is based on how many died, then the Allies should have lost the Second World War. But that is not happened, is it? Even your own graph states that fact.
....

It's not my graph

Please see the blue column - 'deaths as a percentage of the population'. The Americans (with their timing) and the Brits (by using canon fodder) made sure that they lost much much less as compared to all other majors...and it is the same which is happening now.

That, IMVHO, is the point of this war.

[srai]

^^^
Interesting chart on WW2 deaths Manish. Surprised to see comparatively very low deaths for US, UK and France.

[Rakesh]

[quote = srai post_id=2618356 time=1714662042 user_id=3479]Rakesh quote[/quote]

Click on the quote button on a post that you want to reply to. The forum software will input the name of the poster you are replying to. You don't need to type the name yourself.

I have edited the forum code above, so you can see how it is done.

Also please put the source of the images you post in the forum. Just common courtesy to thank the owner. I have had to edit many of your posts because they lack an attribution of the image.

That bit unnecessary. No need to make it personal. Just because one has a different viewpoint doesn’t necessarily mean they believe a simple opposite. It’s not black or white. There are many shades of grey in between.

It is a figure of speech and was not meant to be personal. But if you took it in that manner, then my apologies to you.

And with regards to black or white, please convey that advice to the war mongers in DC. There are indeed many shades of grey in between. America does not get to decide what is black or white or grey.

[srai]

^^^
Both sides have “war mongers”. Let’s convey the message to both sides shall we

[Rakesh]

It's not my graph

That is why I request posters to put image source

Please see the blue column - 'deaths as a percentage of the population'. The Americans (with their timing) and the Brits (by using canon fodder) made sure that they lost much much less as compared to all other majors...and it is the same which is happening now.

That, IMVHO, is the point of this war.

There is only major participant in the Western-led war and that is Ukraine. And yes, the Ukrainians are being used by the west as cannon fodder. But since that was the goal, then it underscores the fact that the only ones profiting off this conflict are the Western MICs.

Ukraine is not going to win this conflict.

[Rakesh]

^^^
Both sides have “war mongers”. Let’s convey the message to both sides shall we

I don't recall Russia going around in nation building, western democracy and regime change activities in the 21st century.

Such advice will fall on deaf ears in the Kremlin. Nice try though

This is attempt number 3 for Amreeka and they are failing miserably at it.

[Lisa]

^^^
Both sides have “war mongers”. Let’s convey the message to both sides shall we

No

You need to read the Monroe Doctrine and try to explain/understand how the whole of the Americas are the US's backyard but Russia does not have an interest in Ukraine.

[srai]

Afghanistan
Georgia
Syria
Ukraine

… plus African countries with mercenaries like Wagnar

[srai]

No side is an “angel”

[Lisa]

You are missing the point completely. 3 of the counties you have named share a border with Russia and the last ones government ask for assistance.

The USA shares a border with Canada, Mexico and a very small demarcation with Russia.

Explain the borders of

Vietnam,
Afghanistan,
Iraq,
Lebanon,
Yugoslavia,
Libya,
Angola,

and just to help out further, why was the US helping out South Africa arrest Nelson Mandela!

https://time.com/6258292/nelson-mandela-cia-arrest/

[Rakesh]

Russian intervention in Syria was a request by Bashar al-Assad to fight ISIS. It was not a regime change, establish Western democracy and nation building activity. Russian intervention in Georgia has been explained by Lisa above. Ukraine has been discussed to death.

Russia invasion of Afghanistan was in the 20th century. I said 21st century. Iraq, US invasion of Afghanistan and Ukraine are all in the 21st century.

And when you mention mercenaries like Wagner, don't forget to put Blackwater as the foundation

Try harder srai.

[Manish_P]

It's not my graph

That is why I request posters to put image source

Mea Culpa, Admiral sir.

I posted from mobile, as against my usual PC.. hence might have missed

It's from wiki

But I have seen similar figures (and graphs) from other sources as well. European and American.

[Lisa]

And when you mention mercenaries like Wagner, don't forget to put Blackwater as the foundation

Try harder srai.

The man who taught me play chess in the 70's was an agency man rotating from Angola!

[Manish_P]

... the only ones profiting off this conflict are the Western MICs.
...

And China

It's buying them crucial time... even if no orders for their stuff...so far.

[Haresh]

This is Britains largest selling newspaper. Note the comments.

Ukraine cannot beat Russia on the battlefield and will have to enter talks with Putin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dmits.html
03 May 2024

[mody]

What happened to Hollywood's mojo in being the propaganda mouthpiece of the Anglo Saxon world? That said a recent Russkie movie I saw on the Serbian conflict was excellent and I learnt many aspects of the conflict I never knew about.

Name of the movie? Balkan Line?

[Yogi_G]

Name of the movie? Balkan Line?

Yup

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ElbridgeColby/status/1786443385043038349 ---> What an incredible indictment of our sanctions policy toward Russia. Remarkable.

Russia’s new economy may end up prolonging its war
https://www.ft.com/content/3fd6b61b-f9f ... 909868a0b6
02 May 2024

[sanman]

So France is sending combat troops to Ukraine?

Crazy. Macron is a mental lightweight. He needs to be voted out toute-suite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_tPUqn5C4

[ashthor]

Europe is slowly tightening the screws on itself.

So France is sending combat troops to Ukraine?

Crazy. Macron is a mental lightweight. He needs to be voted out toute-suite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_tPUqn5C4

[Pratyush]

More importantly they are making it easy for President Putin to communicate the existential threat faced by Russia to the Russian people.

[sanman]

More importantly they are making it easy for President Putin to communicate the existential threat faced by Russia to the Russian people.

Ironically, France has traditionally tilted toward Russia during the great power competitions which occurred prior to WW2.

Macron is like an ignorant maverick, whose blind ambition for personal self-aggrandizement is making him an unreliable, unpredictable bull-in-the-china shop. This fool could get everybody into WW3. I really find the nationalist Marine LePen to be far more sane than him.
I don't know when he's up for re-election, but I hope the French will throw him out ASAP.

Speaking of re-election, it seems Zelensky's electoral mandate is running out -- when? Literally tomorrow, it seems?