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by GeorgeWelch
15 May 2018 18:48
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

2) $6 billion for 57 naval fighters, works out to $105+ million unit cost. As per wiki chacha, the unit cost of the F-18E/F was $70.5 million in 2017. So around $35+ million extra to factor in weapons, tools, spares, base infrastructure, etc. . . . 3) Using the $105 million (overall acquisition cos...
by GeorgeWelch
08 Apr 2018 08:17
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Posted by BRF Member nam -------------------------------------------- This thing is beyond bizarre. Unless the RFI is fundamentally to force Rafale to reduce price and more workshare in India, I don't see why would another another jet win this one. If anything other than Rafale wins, questions will...
by GeorgeWelch
04 Mar 2018 21:43
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

However with twin engines being brought in again my suspicion is that a country like India that could not afford 126 Rafales in 2015 is not suddenly going to have money for that in 2018. That leaves only the F/A-18. Let me stick my neck out and say that this remains a possible choice because it sui...
by GeorgeWelch
02 Mar 2018 22:51
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: International Naval News & Discussion
Replies: 3398
Views: 487880

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

So please tell, how many JASSM’s and Extended Range JASSMs does the US Navy operate? The USN is funding the development of a more advanced version of the JASSM called the AGM-158C LRASM that is nearly operational. What happened when the requirements did not align with the USAF on the JDRADM? The US...
by GeorgeWelch
02 Mar 2018 20:07
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: International Naval News & Discussion
Replies: 3398
Views: 487880

Re: International Naval News and Discussion

NAVAIR has practically ceded all cutting edge and innovative R&D to the USAF labs, at least when it comes to fighters. Nearly all the cutting edge stuff such as podded directed energy systems, new missiles, and loyal wingman drones have higher if not exclusive funding from the USAF. Do you thin...
by GeorgeWelch
01 Mar 2018 17:35
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

No request made to US for F-35 fighter jet, says IAF chief B S Dhanoa the American aeroplane was a non-starter as it does not have a “probe-and-drogue” air-to-air refueling system https://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/12/photos-f-16-conformal-probe-for-mmrca.html The report notes that “During the fl...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 06:00
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

You clearly do not understand Indian politics. With a national election in 2019, this Govt. didn't want any accusations of having done any wrongdoing in selecting a fighter and paying several billions of $ without a fair competition. That is what led to the demise of the SEF program, since it put a...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 04:23
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

On the contrary, everything now points to the Rafale being in the pole position. If they just wanted more Rafale they would just cancel the competition altogether. The fact the competition is still going says they still want something besides Rafale. AND a Govt. to Govt. deal doesn't mean it is off...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 03:13
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

I could very easily be wrong, but I'm just trying to read the tea leaves. You read the tea leaves wrong on 27 April 2011, did'nt you? :lol: How so? You also said that rejection of the F-16 - during the SEF contest - would be most unfortunate for India. Yet another misread. How so? You have to look ...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 03:08
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

So, they opened it up to the plane that makes the most sense, the SH ;) Your entire argument of affordability rests on the premise, that they will order a 100 birds as this MoD contest states. As the first and second contests clearly proved, 100+ birds could not be afforded by the Govt. They can't ...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 03:02
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

If the F-35 enters the competition, it will be down to the F-35 and the Rafale. You keep looking at the high end but it's pretty clear that this competition is for the lower end. The IAF may get the F-35, but it won't be through this competition. And they certainly won't get the Rafale through this...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:59
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

A second twin engine bird (via the F-18) is pointless. It's not pointless if it's affordable enough to acquire in large numbers. The F-18 will not come. You believe it will and you most certainly entitled to that opinion. For the Navy probably, but not for the IAF. I could very easily be wrong, but...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:48
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

You still can't explain the existence of this competition. Why didn't they just order more Rafales? You are asking questions knowing full well that no one here will have any answers that they can back up with evidence. Clearly you're a smart guy, you know the answer full well, you just don't want t...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:20
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

IAF on the other hand has a "numbers" fighter in the LCA and can iterate and develop the MK2 and perhaps beyond. You still can't explain the existence of this competition. Why didn't they just order more Rafales? Why didn't the just order more LCAs? Answer this and we'll finally get somew...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:18
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Brar : The IAF looks at viable platforms and not dead ones, as he claims the SH to be. If the teens come back into play, they will lose again. I think LM will likely not make the same mistake for a third time. The F-18 is a dead platform as per his own admission. See here ---> https://forums.bharat...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:11
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

If the goal was to get F-35, why open it up to twin-engine fighters? Competition. Which of the twin fighters can put price pressure on the F-16 or Gripen? As a hedge any sensible person would want to keep others in the play as well including the Rafale which the IAF has picked in the past. You cann...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 02:02
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

An off the shelf purchase of the Rafale now will come with those customization since they have been funded already. . . . and that 'off the shelf' price will still be substantially higher than the SH's. No they aren't going to do all the same fancy customizations, but they don't need to. They alrea...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 01:53
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Based on the fact that they opened a brand new competition instead of just ordering more Rafales. And there is no reason to doubt that if it comes down to the same metrics and competitors they turn around and pick the Rafale But they aren't rerunning MRCA and it's not the same metrics. The most obv...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 01:46
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

The money absolutely is enough reason. Based on what? Based on the fact that they opened a brand new competition instead of just ordering more Rafales. (Also the fact they now say they can't release Rafale costs is . . . indicative, let's say, of issues with the price) The IAF and the MOD have inve...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 01:30
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

Not enough reason to ditch just buying more Rafale's The money absolutely is enough reason. They can't afford the hundreds of Rafales they want. and not substantially cheaper than the F-35A to not go for the former's significantly better capability That assumes they can get F-35s, which isn't entir...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2018 00:50
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III
Replies: 1219
Views: 174011

Re: MRCA (Many Rakshaks Choose Aircraft) Contest - Episode III

1. The IAF wants planes fast (G2G order, ie no Make in India) 2. The IAF wants planes cheaper to operate than the MKI (hence the initial single-engine requirement) 3. The IAF wants planes cheaper to acquire than then Rafale (hence the existence of this program in the first place, otherwise they woul...
by GeorgeWelch
04 Mar 2017 11:27
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

So buy dead platforms because they are affordable? Bargain bin shopping at thrifty discount store?? :rotfl: More like 'If you're going to be buying a dead platform anyways, might as well get the affordable one' MRCA was already locked into those 6 aircraft. No other options were possible at that po...
by GeorgeWelch
04 Mar 2017 11:23
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Its just plain silly to suggest that India go from serial manufacture of one metal airframed (Su-30) to serial manufacture of another metal airframe (F-16), to gain the experience require to scale up production on a more modern composite airframe (Tejas). Not at all. Manufacturing processes are bro...
by GeorgeWelch
04 Mar 2017 11:17
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Viv S wrote:The F-16 & SH are both dead-end platforms that have been rendered pointless with the advent of the F-35.


Same for the Rafale. The difference is that the SH is actually affordable.
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 19:50
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Well as per you, HAL is not going to manufacture these single engine fighters no? So why are you concerned what HAL is doing or not doing? First you understand the problem then you understand the solution. If the problem is both rapid manufacturing prowess and increasing your aerospace industrial b...
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 09:02
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Allow me to add 'condescending' to Evangelical Posturing. *shrug* And yet HAL's underperformance in speedy manufacturing remains something that needs to be addressed. I'm hardly the first person on this forum to point it out. And you are right...it appears F-Solah may not be chosen after all. So yo...
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 04:14
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

We do not need to know how to assemble 4th generation planes. We have been doing it on the Su-30MKI and on the Tejas. Not really. HAL can do their hand assembly, but they can't really scale up efficiently. That's why it's time to give someone else the opportunity to make a true, scalable assembly l...
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 03:51
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Is the manufacturing ability not geared for fast manufacturing or is it limited to other reasons? For eg: one could be our ability to afford so many fighters in a financial year? I could look at the amount invested in the Rafale and then the amount they're looking at investing in MiI single engine ...
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 02:36
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Cybaru wrote:
GeorgeWelch wrote:Rapid assembly to tight standards is an important skill.


Important skill for?


A country that wants to be self-sufficient in fighters but needs enough to counter China and Pakistan

Cybaru wrote:Does it not exist in India today?


Do you see any rapid manufacture of fighters in India today?
by GeorgeWelch
03 Mar 2017 02:15
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Okay if it is more "sophisticated" than assembly, please explain in what areas does India need to be taught sophistication. what's the current LCA manufacture rate? what's the current F-35 manufacture rate? There is a world of difference between hand building everything and a true assembl...
by GeorgeWelch
02 Mar 2017 13:01
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

I thought manufacturing was non-existant. We need F-16 to save us! No one said that Doing screwdrivergiri of 100 aircraft is not going to change anything. If handled properly, it can be much more than that and make a substantive difference If I am wrong in my assessment, then with all the screwdriv...
by GeorgeWelch
02 Mar 2017 07:01
Forum: Military Issues Archive
Topic: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter
Replies: 5425
Views: 646250

Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

These are just "some" of the other sectors of the economy that is doing just fine without F-Solahs being made in India. They are not just surviving, they are THRIVING! The Ball does not need to roll, the Ball is already moving full speed ahead! You should always strive to improve yourself...
by GeorgeWelch
22 Feb 2017 00:47
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: International Aerospace Discussion
Replies: 4918
Views: 628787

Re: International Aerospace Discussion

http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/idex-2017-uae-and-russia-to-develop-fighter-jet Russia plans to develop a fifth generation joint light fighter aircraft with the UAE as Moscow seeks to boost its military exports to the region. Sergey Chemezov, the chief executive of Rostec, the country’s l...
by GeorgeWelch
29 Jan 2017 02:09
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

This is what the MOD will look into. But to suggest that 57 fighter aircraft procurement is somehow indicative of a critical mass is quite absurd. By any standard that is a fairly small fleet. I'm sorry for confusing the issue with that point. Even without critical mass, price differentials alone c...
by GeorgeWelch
29 Jan 2017 01:51
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Yes the Rafale is expensive, but I don't think anyone here will dispute the fact that more are going to come for the IAF. You seemed to consider LCA Mk II as theoretical, yet there's more reason to believe it will happen than any additional Rafale orders. Strange how your standard of proof seems to...
by GeorgeWelch
29 Jan 2017 01:31
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Both happen to be capable of being operated from land and sea. No, Rafale cannot be operated from a carrier, only the Rafale-M can. Think 2030 and you negotiate acquiring control or license to allow deeper modernization and inclusion of indigenous capability. It's going to be cost prohibitive to ne...
by GeorgeWelch
28 Jan 2017 22:18
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Weapons being cheaper does not negate the need to maintain two entirely different supply chains, and logistical infrastructure to support, overhaul and maintain them. But it can negate the cost difference. There is a crossing point where the price per weapon does indeed make it cheaper to maintain ...
by GeorgeWelch
28 Jan 2017 02:43
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

That's speculative since there is little in terms of component commonality between the F404 or the F414 while there is far greater commonality on the other side Sorry for not being clear, I was of course referring to Mk 2 with 414 So far there has been no movement on a potential Indian GE F414 buy ...
by GeorgeWelch
28 Jan 2017 00:43
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Could (Should) be the Rafale - M since it makes sense since it will already have a logisitical footprint in the country. that's only true if the logistical savings is enough to make it cheaper than (or at least comparably priced to) the SH, which I find doubtful. Any savings in logistics are likely...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Jan 2017 00:52
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Replies: 4822
Views: 871163

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Some say it is as a jest, make it truth. Officially commission all of India as one giant aircraft carrier with multiple 'flight decks'.

Then the F-16 can be a carrier-based fighter.

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