Bharat Rakshak

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ManishH wrote:satyenottabhitā bhūmiḥ ... ṛtenādityāstiṣṭhanti (The earth is upheld by truth, and Gods stand by ṛta)

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Don't we have a Amartay Sen who blasted the British Loot and established Bengal Famine story, etc leading in Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. Don't we have a Pankaj Mishra tearing apart Niall's Civilization into pieces, publishing in lots of the so-called western media. Pankaj Mishra & Amartya ...

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SN_Rajan ji, why would Western Indologists give space to Indian views, if it breaks down their carefully fabricated lies, or if it easier for you to digest, their version of history? RajeshA Ji, Well, these line of arguments are all noise - missing the factual points and just making ad hominem en m...

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SN_Rajan ji, If you are looking for "pir reviewed articles", you will see that OIT people are not really welcome in the back-scratching clubs of AIT-Nazis! As such in Journals on Indology, History, Archaeo-Astronomy, Archaeology etc. one would see fewer OIT contributors and often no India...

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Please define what you mean by "significant difference"? Shiv Ji, Yes i am also okay with some errors, up to 500 years or till it becomes a 'significant difference'. I did mention that Kenoyer did qualify his dates with +-50 years and p >= 90% which is very reasonable in my view. And, wha...

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He is providing a logical argument! On which part of it, do you wish to put a question mark on? Be specific! RajeshA Ji, You are free make fun of it as usual: but i am looking only for Peer Reviewed Scholarly Journal References. That is the primary filter. And, then, i will look into logic of it. B...

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Your thrust is mostly on the lines of "All (AIT/AMT) scholars agree on AMT, so AMT is right"! That is like 3 bishops can agree that Jesus was the Son of God, so Jesus is Son of God! .... and all humanity has to believe that! On this thread we would like to go beyond the notion that the wo...

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Self-deleted.

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Interesting ref. I have some uses for it, but not what I thought. Table 1 is not their work as far as I could make out. Table 2 lists the 11 radiocarbon dates they got this time and the latest is around 1680 BC - nowhere close enough to the Wiki 1300 BC. Even table 1 only says "Late Harappa&qu...

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However there is firm evidence that Sanskrit existed in India only after 300 BC or so. No scholar that I admire or do not admire has been able to produce even a whiff of attestable evidence that any Indo European language existed in India before 300 BC. All assertions that Sanskrit existed as a lan...

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So far no such remains have been discovered in South Asia . True, No horse sacrifice remains from the Vedic period too, let alone the IVC period This can mean one of two things (or maybe both) 1. There were no horses 2. There were no Aryans ... If you define Aryan culture as horse and chariot cultu...

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Please, I don't trust the source because I have never seen such a claim in the past. Wiki can be edited by anyone. The 1300 BC date is too tempting to use for an anti AIT argument, but it needs confirmation. If yu have a seprate source for corroboration I will look at it. Or else I will take it as ...

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Maybe we can try simplify the basic question of 'Migration': In my view, at the top most layer, the most important and relevant date range is 3300 BCE to 2600 BCE, i.e., from the early beginning of IVC till it started to be a mature civilization, buzzing with 5 million people with 1052 cities + many...

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The IVC certainly had the horse. It had wheels and wagons/chariots as well. Shiv Ji, Is there any evidence for all these(horse + chariot + wheels) in IVC that you can cite please. I remember ManishH explanations with pictures before in this thread. Now quoting Kenoyer from: 2006 Cultures and Societ...

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Hi,

Can someone help me with some newbie questions:

1. How do i post local images, i.e, images from my local desktop?

2. How do i 'word wrap' my posts - can i just format in word, and post it?

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Shiv Ji, On your post on my IVC date references: I belive the dates for IVC are correct - 3300 BCE to 1300 BCE, even per Wiki. Please see Chronology - from early Harappan to Late Happan - Harappan 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization I also referred to the Kenoyer and Meadow pape...

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I logically do not think any theory that can explain all points other than AMT - Occam's razor. I believe you are guilty of being vague which exactly suits the theory you support. Which AMT do you subscribe to? Specifically, by what method has the source of Indo European langauges (also known as PI...

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venug wrote:Rajan ji, could you please format your sentences? May be word wrap? It is difficult to read when the sentences don't continue on to next line without a fixed word limit per line....just a request

Self-deleted.

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SN_Rajanji My 'test' of OIT vs AMT in simple words: 1. My benchmark is IVC. The 'attested' date range for IVC is from 3300 BC to 300 BC - spanning 3000 years , population of 5 million plus, area of 1,260, 000 sq.km ( making it the largest ancient civilization) and consisting of 1052 cities plus('na...

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My 'test' of OIT vs AMT in simple words: Good. You have an opinion that you are entitled to hold even if I disagree. There is only one thing in your post that caught my attention. You said: My benchmark is IVC. The 'attested' date range for IVC is from 3300 BC to 300 BC I would be interested in a s...

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SN_Rajan ji, the only thing that you are sure of is who you want to trust. Again if RV people are the usurpers of SIVC then why are they not gloating over their winning ways. Or do you already trust that Dasas are SIVC people who got killed by Indra? ravi_g Ji, Same as my previous answer: Simple. I...

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SN_Rajan ji, You seem to have a lot of automatic trust is various AIT personalities. Has that trust anything to do with their arguments or is it in reality based on your own need to believe? If it has to do with arguments, then we can surely take them up! If on the other hand it has to do with your...

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RE. - SN_Rajan Post subject: Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to TruthPosted: 03 Sep 2012 19:30 SN_Rajan ji, if RV people are nostalgic about Horses why are they not nostalgic about their Purs/Armaka whatever? And if they are where are these Purs/Armakas? Simple. It is not theirs. And, they came in a...

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Like I said earlier, it is important to read Witzel and I can see from this thread that even people who support Witzel or choose to post humongous passages from Witzel's exceedingly voluminous works do not actually read what he has written other than what catches their eye as being supportive of th...

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My 'test' of OIT vs AMT in simple words: 1. My benchmark is IVC. The 'attested' date range for IVC is from 3300 BC to 1300 BC - spanning 2000 years, population of 5 million plus, area of 1,260, 000 sq.km( making it the largest ancient civilization) and consisting of 1052 cities plus('nagara'). There...

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dharamraj wrote:Did you even read the quote you posted?

...

Circular logic onlee

Dharamraj Ji,

Yes, of course, i read it. And, no, it is not "circular" logic. It is "corroborative" logic in my view.

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ManishH Sir, If you kindly advise on this point please - "*Raså -> R.Volga" : Witzel's paper http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/%7Ewitzel/EJVS-7-3.pdf in section 9 on Immigration says: Such a connection can be detected in the retention by the Iranians of IIr./IA river names (Witzel 1987, 19...

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I just read the section on 'ayas'. Basically, he tries to pre-date RV by saying it is not smelted iron but actually iron ore. What can i say :-) SN Rajan, For someone who makes grandiose claims of 'scientific honesty' - your statement above is astonishingly intellectually dishonest. There are at le...

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Rajanji, you ask "how does it change the big picture". Without asking you what you mean by "big picture" let me repost your quote of Witzel In short, the period of the four Vedas seems to fall roughly between c. 1500 BCE and c. 500 BCE Now we move to a pdf from Witzel's own web ...

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SN_Rajan ji, kindly do not bother Shivji with my stand. Archeology and Carbon Dating are art and not science is my stand. Especially so with Archeology. Isotope dating has certainly advanced but if I gathered it right there was a time when supplying dates to the labs before they had put out their d...

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Or, we will go by, Witzel & co, as it seems the logical that IE people are different from IVC, and IE were nomadic migrants coming later. Ranajanji, I am interested to know your logic behind this conclusion. It is obvious that people who wrote Rigveda did not describe IVC. Lets also assume that...

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Rajan ji, given your faith in pir reviewed scientific jernails , I assume that they translated IVC script :lol: i see that deciphering is not yet done - and i also see the challange/bet by Farmer: http://www.safarmer.com/indus/prize.html i doubt if it can ever be fully deciphered - statistically &q...

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Perhaps you may like to comment on theories of Asko Parpola and Iravatham Mahadevan, which do not kick the Sanskrit speakers beyond Indian borders! If you do not find any, one reason may be that Parpola may be a AIT-Nazi and Mahadevan simply playing to the phenomenon of Tamil victim-chauvinism, whi...

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SN_Rajan ji, welcome to the thread and thanks for your fresh look at it! :) 1) From your posts, I have the impression that you are presuming we have not gone into the various arguments that the AIT-Nazis throw at us. I would urge you to read through the thread and if you see something which has gon...

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Dear Thread-Lovers, I would like to urge everybody to not indulge in either name-calling or creating psychological profiles of other BRF members. This thread deserves better than to be a repository of psycho-analysis of individual members. For someone to be worthy of psycho-analysis one has to have...

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Btw, this is main paper i keep referring back. Did you take the trouble of going through TRS Prasanna's response relating to the 'ayas' argument? Arjun Ji, I just read the section on 'ayas'. Basically, he tries to pre-date RV by saying it is not smelted iron but actually iron ore. What can i say :-...

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May I point out an observation I have made about Witzel's works? Here is a quote from Witzel that was posted above Further, in spite of the stress on the 'hard sciences', all too frequently 'scientific facts' are quoted which, on closer observation, are not hard facts at all. For example, an unsusp...

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You have misread Witzel and have posted that quote without reading. A small error and excusable maybe. But I see linguists theories as a series of small errors that have been excused for too long. You see, in this line 500 years is tossed around like we might lose or gain one minute. That allows a ...

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So, I will be very interested to see if some scientific peer evidence exists linking RV and IVC. Or, we will go by, Witzel & co, as it seems the logical that IE people are different from IVC, and IE were nomadic migrants coming later. Parpola and Mahaven works also clearly state that IVC spoke ...

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I have a quite from a Witzel paper that says Iron age in India started around 1000 BC so 900 BC is probably the latest date he can put on the Rig veda. I have no dispute with that. I dispute the earlier date of 1200 BC. I see nothing in the linguistic evidence that proves that the Sanskrit did not ...

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