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by John
09 Dec 2018 23:30
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The Type 45 Sampson radar is a two faced radar, with reduced weight, which allowed them to create a tall mast. I thought our MF-Star mast was tall, Type 45 is really tall. My guess it is able to hit low flying ASHM at quite some distance, compares to ours. They also have the big rotating Search rad...
by John
09 Dec 2018 04:44
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

^ Back when Karanj was launched there were few good images of INS Vishakapatnam unf comparing them with previous two launches of Scorpene SSK highlight the slow progress as well.
by John
06 Dec 2018 19:19
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Replies: 186
Views: 34058

Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion

I don't believe, we have to hide any costs from anyone. If we have JV for SSN, it can be hidden or shown as such. There is always some black projects with enough money allocated. The public does not need to know about these until it reaches certain capabilities to display to the public audience. Pu...
by John
05 Dec 2018 08:31
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

^^^ No matter how I dissect it, $3.3B is way too much for a lease when the Vikrant costs $3.5B (so far.) We own the carrier though. Sometimes, it seems we have a bottomless budget — as long as the gear is firang. IMO it's putin bailout the Chinese groovy train of under the table deals for Russian t...
by John
05 Dec 2018 02:58
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

nam wrote:Unless I am mistaking, lease would mean, we get the money back when the boat is returned.

If we getting a replacement, that means we are technically paying a billion more for the rent.

It is not a buy.

I wish leases work like that, you are confusing liability with lease cost.
by John
04 Dec 2018 23:43
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

3.3 billion for leasing "ONE"?? That's insane. You get an AC from UK/France for that price. For 3/4 akulas on a lease - maybe. Perhaps I am being cheap, but I think it's a tad bit expensive. Atleast this stops usual suspects claiming about how Akula lease costs are baked into S-400, Grigo...
by John
03 Dec 2018 18:10
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018
Replies: 2953
Views: 615459

Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

Aditya_V wrote:Remember in 2010 just before Akash orders how similair offers came for the Patriot, these offers come when they detect we have over come most hurdles.

I believe the offer was a counter to S-400 not a counter to Akash.
by John
30 Nov 2018 18:52
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

I truly and fervently wish SAAB goes through with this. I have my reasons... :wink: But only if it leads to complete junking of the vshorads import plan altogether. There is absolutely no point in enabling others to rob yourself. Also with QRSAM program making progress, there will be less utility o...
by John
30 Nov 2018 02:27
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

John, which design have you looked at? Saryu-2 is much larger than the 750t inshore ASW corvettes. I am kinda lost what you are talking about you are referring to 750 ton ASWSWC correct? GRSE design seems to show a medak gun where as GSL resembles an smaller oto 76mm ( I assume it is just a placeho...
by John
29 Nov 2018 20:58
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Apologies to GRSE on the ASW corvettes.The pic earlier seen may have been that of another yard/design.A pic seen depictjng GRSE's design shows an open helideck at the stern with what appears to be a twin SR SAM ( MANPADS type) launcher amidships facing the stern.There is enough space for a ltwt. gu...
by John
29 Nov 2018 17:47
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Naval Aviation
Replies: 573
Views: 82201

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

^ There is still F-18E and even Gripen so there is still other options.
by John
27 Nov 2018 23:17
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Naval Aviation
Replies: 573
Views: 82201

Re: Indian Naval Aviation

That 57 Aircraft thing is a non-starter unless the navy can wait for like 1 and half decade , the cost involved in such pruchase will be too high for navy to afford it even cheaper program like mine sweeper have been in cold water for close to decade. Better option for navy is to purchase 18-20 odd...
by John
27 Nov 2018 18:50
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

russians are using panystr cannons and pantsyr/tor SAM in hymenim + unknown EW command link disrupt/takeover gear to defeat drone swarm attacks. some damage has been conceded but mostly these rough n tuff DIY swarms been thrashed and routed. Source? Only thing I have read by Russian Def expert is P...
by John
25 Nov 2018 21:10
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Igla-S are quite frequently used by various Syrian rebels with mixed success. Mixed success is more than enough to force a change in standard helicopter and transport aircraft tactics for most of the time. Forget actual firing of a manpad, even the knowledge that opfor in a particular sector has ac...
by John
25 Nov 2018 07:25
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Igla-S are quite frequently used by various Syrian rebels with mixed success.
by John
24 Nov 2018 22:54
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

^ I highly doubt this deal has any sub components. Russians wanted around 3 billion for 3+1 vessels it was negotiated to 1.5 billion for 2+2.
by John
24 Nov 2018 02:16
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Any sane person would think that you do not buy anything that has failed its purpose and here we are buying a system which will be the last point of defence against the enemy jets. The opposition parties will get a fantastic claim to say corruption being committed in buying a failed system. Russian...
by John
23 Nov 2018 14:38
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Austin wrote:Why didnt US Stinger participated in this competition

It was offered too late, at one point there was a plan to purchase Stingers directly as gov to gov deal and scrap VSHORAD but it was rejected. Some Stingers came as part of Apache deal.
by John
22 Nov 2018 20:38
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The construction is to begin at GSL in 2020. So 6 years for the first ship and second 1 year later. The ones built at GSL will end up costing us anywhere between 25 to 35% more then the russian built ones. Where are you getting the cost figures from? So far only 500 million deal with Russia has bee...
by John
22 Nov 2018 02:51
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

^^^ Wait I am just catching up on the Gigoros For 500 MIllion We are getting 2 almost built frigates from Russia and License Building 2. So 4 in total ? Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick chaps No, it is 1 billion for first deal which is two vessels built in Russia and 1/2 billion for 2...
by John
22 Nov 2018 00:17
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The deal for Grigorovich to be built in GSL has been signed. I am not fan of it, 500 million for assistance and material + more for equipment and construction seems bit hard to swallow and not sure the wisdom in building a 20 yr old design locally now. It is what it is but at least getting 2 fully b...
by John
21 Nov 2018 21:16
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Karan M wrote:Krishna do you think the T-90 which India purchased was a good buy?

I would ignore his post otherwise this will devolve soon.
by John
21 Nov 2018 19:19
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Please read the article by livefist, it mentions it failed to demonstrate ability to acquire targets and sights were not used either. You please read it first : " For starters, the only system that needed to engage in any firing during the final re-confirmatory trials last year was Saab’s RBS ...
by John
21 Nov 2018 19:00
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

krishna_krishna wrote:Why ? How ?


Please read the article by livefist, it mentions it failed to demonstrate ability to acquire targets and sights were not used either.
by John
21 Nov 2018 06:58
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Russian Weapons & Military Technology
Replies: 1477
Views: 192975

Re: Russian Weapons & Military Technology

^^ It seems that the Pantsir has teething problems. Nonetheless, the previous-generation Tor missile system performed well (an 80% success rate). Not surprising, Both Army and Navy have ran into issues with Pantsir’s predecessor Tunguska and Kashtan. As a result they refused to fund subsequent proc...
by John
21 Nov 2018 02:55
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The shallow water ASW craft were an idea that Admiral Nirmal Verma got on a visit to Turkey. What he essentially wanted was a cheap inshore/harbour defence vessel equipped with off the shelf commerial sonar and twin LWT which could be built in large numbers. The vessels are not meant to venture far...
by John
20 Nov 2018 21:26
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Yea its very hard to get a cost breakdown per missile because of inclusion of MF Star which itself should cost around 100-200 million (based on cost of similar systems).
by John
20 Nov 2018 21:22
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

L-70 40 mm was once a good choice, but no longer preferred now by any navy, no idea why. Bofors (BAe) 40mm gun is offered for export and 40 MK4 recently won an contract with Brazilian navy but it faces stiff competes ironically from BAe which also offers a 57mm gun which offers a comparable rate of...
by John
20 Nov 2018 20:02
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

It is supposed to be around mill each latest order is for 7 systems for P-17A + launchers + MF Star for 770 million. That's just for the parts that IAI manufactures, that is the radar, seekers etc. The contract from GRSE and MDL to BEL was worth $1.28 billion. Missed that one, BEL order is for asse...
by John
20 Nov 2018 18:27
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Each Barak 8 is around USD 4 MILLION It is supposed to be around mill each latest order is for 7 systems for P-17A + launchers + MF Star for 770 million. Each system has 32 missiles + spares + training rounds so around 60-70. Even MF Star and launchers are given away for free that works to less tha...
by John
20 Nov 2018 17:46
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

But more importantly the cost of deal in these initial reports are $3B for 1000 missiles. the need is for 5000 missiles. that $15B in total !!!. This is not right? Even Barak-8 costs less than mil per missile. A manpad costing 3 million is insanity. Added: The deal is 1.3 billion for 5175 missiles ...
by John
19 Nov 2018 19:54
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017
Replies: 5070
Views: 962571

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

I too have a hard on for heavy bombers, but we have no experience making any heavy aircraft (I guess heaviest one we have made is MKI at a measly 20t empty). Problem with procuring something like Tu-22m3/Tu-160 in miniscule numbers is that we are reliant on Russia for almost all maintenance or part...
by John
18 Nov 2018 23:55
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

But John, the question is will these inshore ASW craft (operating < 100 miles from shore) ever see that Exocet/Harpoon threat? Will a submarine resting on the seabed or running in silent mode with the hope of ambushing an IN Carrier/VLCC Tanker contemplate a strike against these small vessels in re...
by John
18 Nov 2018 21:58
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Inshore asw ships dont need to worry much about air attack Every solution has to be tailored to cost Singha it is not air attack but more of missile attack one of the biggest threats is Agosta firing off a few Exocet. Unlike Pauk class these vessel little to no defense against that even if you moun...
by John
18 Nov 2018 00:48
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Singha not sure who you are replying but I would much rather a prefer a gun that can double as a point defense air defense system given the lack of SAM system and 40mm gun is not entirely that expensive or heavier compared to Medak.
by John
17 Nov 2018 19:50
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The 30 mm gun is reliable, of indigenous manufacture, and cheap by implication due to its proliferation across Navy's WJ-FACs/ICG OPVs. Slaved to an electro-optical sight, it can easily take out surfaced submarine periscopes, ESMs, Sonar Domes (polymer) and ensure a mission kill. I'm not sure if it...
by John
15 Nov 2018 06:27
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

Overall a solid design; the hull's sea keeping, engine reliability, and crew comfort have been validated with the 3 Shivaliks for the last 7 odd years. The stealth shutters go away due to operational experience wherein it was learnt the hard way that the gain in stealth is not worth the loss in ope...
by John
14 Nov 2018 05:19
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

^ Is any of that based on reported factual information or just opinions? As it stands we don’t have any confirmation which model is being used by which SY. Let’s wait for more concrete information before we speculate endlessly on this. unacceptable operational limitations on the usage of boats, torp...
by John
14 Nov 2018 00:06
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018
Replies: 798
Views: 139274

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 03 July 2018

The radar mast as shown in the CGI, I presume cannot be achieved with the current version of MF-STAR. In the CGI, the radar face is too small. I would not go off dimensions in initial CGI to indicate the design is viable it is just a CGI and this was released very early, P-15B initial CGI had even ...

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