Bharat Rakshak

Peeyoosh

Sunil Refer to http://users.senet.com.au/~wingman/accident.html I have seen numbers ranging between 3.5 in the early 90s, falling to 1.9 in the mid 90s, and then rising again to around 2.5-3 in the late 90s in some articles. If there is better data, would appreciate seeing it. Cheers Peeyoosh

Peeyoosh

Nitin No contest that the attrition of Migs will be above the newer, smarter and 2 engined airframes - that is a no brainer - but 3/10,000 is the hassle . HAL is improving - but the change is slow and can be faster - and yes, a decade ago the folks in the IAF at the highest level were fighter jocks ...

Peeyoosh

Sure Nitin accepting that Mig 21 attrition is unacceptable is a start - no point defending that with average statitics either. On issues - HAL has a huge culpability - the work ethos in that organization is pathetic, espceially in the elder lines. The better people prefer to go to the new aircraft s...

Peeyoosh

Feroze What is incoherent and so wrong in what Vishnu wrote? Not sure using the PAF's attrition rate to compare gets us anywhere. We have an unacceptable crash rate in the fighter squadrons - with the Mig 21s it is over 3/10,000 hours. Given that an IAF pilot flies around 3000+ hours in his career -...

Peeyoosh

Nuke tipped ballistic missiles could be launched way outside the Pakistan long range radar umbrella. Detecting missiles on launch is hardly an effective forewarning of nuclear strike. If and when sagarika is real, impact will be the best means of validation. The Pakis have actually proposed a 15 / 3...

Peeyoosh

Nitin

Any idea on the status of the Bhim?

Peeyoosh

Peeyoosh

The beam manoiuver is not an integral hardware "hole" but a s/'w issue - once it was exploited future editions of the tracking s/w can be programmed to "not ignore" targets where the apparent speed drops to nil, after having registered an initial rate of closure. Doubt it still w...

Peeyoosh

Yogi/Badar I guess the crucnh is to whom is the arty brig in a inf division answerable to? In case of a counterbattery fire request conflicting with (say) a fire assualt need, who gets priority - and who makes that decision? If we can answer that then the structue of the arty division may become cle...

Peeyoosh

Badar The average brigade has around 70 odd 155 tubes, IIRC. At KArgil we saw over 300 guns being used ona relatively narrow front - I suspect the divisional structure would enable that. MAybe we do not need the tubes themselves, just the "structure" to assemble and co-ordinate such fire m...

Peeyoosh

Guys I put that badly - fire support at the heavy gun level has to be requested from the division, its not a brigade commnders resource, but most inf. brigade commnders plan with divisional arty's availability in mind. Removing that resource, does not leave them (or often, the divisional commander) ...

Peeyoosh

I guess any of the following could be good reasons: 1. Induction of threater level weapons such as Smerch, Pinaka, Prithvi 2. Creating a heavy arty division for frontl assualt or close to saturation bombing of restricted segments of the IB. Note this does not mean that we strip brigades of their art...

Peeyoosh

Miss Salman, Badar, Ashok, mm and the N^3 avtar that was not trying to solve the worlds problems

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Wonder where those folks are. First came here during Kargil - its become pretty addictive.

Peeyoosh

1) Why do pilots need real time video etc? A traregt dscription, location and a singloe snap should be enough for a pilot who has trained on identifying enemy targets. Not sure if data transfer is big issue - note that a target from 10000 feet and 500 kmph looks very different as opposed to from low...

Peeyoosh

Johann So would it be right to say that targts of two kinds emerged - planned targets with a "package" to hit them and taregts of opportunity. In a package situation how much flexibility is normal? To SEAD, top cover and the truck drivers? Do they get very detailed instructions or objectiv...

Peeyoosh

Johann It may also be useful to discuss teh enemy forces as expcted and as faced, along with the UKUSA and NA ground troops. 1. Very few SAMs, other than MANPADS, no fighters 2. Not truly mobile forces 3. Highest value targets were individuals, followed by troop concentrations, or was it logistics n...

Peeyoosh

Lt us do this the other way around. Given the lats capex udget for the IAF as US$ 1 billion, and 6% annual growth, over teh next 13 years teh IAF will have US$ 21 billion to spend. These numbers are as good as its going to get! In perspective the entire capex on the IAF in the 90-s was less than US$...

Peeyoosh

Sukumar I don't thing the concept of a wing is used anymore in routine operational admin - the only times I have heard of it used is when refferring to the "Fighter Wing" or the "Transport Wing" - a sort of a functional division rather than an admin one. The oeprating hierarchy s...

Peeyoosh

Johann Breaking that into incremental cost estimates: LCA 250 a/c @ 25 million = US$ 6.25 billion Su MKI 175 a/c @35 million = US$ 6.2 billion M2 Ks 150 a/c @ 40 million= US$ 6 billion Upgrades 200 Mig/60 Mig 29/180 Mig 27/40 M2ks = US$ 2 billion This adds up to US$ 21 billion and is basic airframe ...

Peeyoosh

Johann The 60 squadron force may me more along the lines of wishful thinking than a battleplan. It takes around US$ 1 billion to create a new squadron with 22 aircraft (base, spares, maint. requirements, missiles - a sqaudron load of missiles can be US$ 50 million ++ - SAMs for base protection et al...

Peeyoosh

heck, each plane has two wings! most pilots too - the IAF has wings all over

could not resist that

Peeyoosh

Cryo for an ICBM is hard to believe, agree that its not a military solution, but we have so manythings ranging from communications to sustainable water developement where high quality satellite infrastructure is invaluable.Sai, PMI agree - we tend to speak of Minimum Credible Detrrence (MCD) a...

Peeyoosh

PMI belive the TSP doctorine is to launch on a) Impact ORb) In case of severe conventional defeat.Its the second that has to be overcome. Give our own DND, I do not see a being relevant.PC

Peeyoosh

ShivThe rhetoric apart - anuclear war on teh subcontinent stands at the use of between 4-10 wepaons with a loss of life BELOW 125,000 on either side from direct impact. The "billion dead holucast" si pure drivel.In my opinion Pakistan would be willing to take this as the worst case o...

Peeyoosh

ShivOne or two nuke tipped Prithvis may kill 25,000 people - a disaster but Pakistan survives. Heck, India lost 25,000 people in the earthquake at Gujarat - and at a national level we took that in our stride.100 Short ranged Agnis means that Pakistan, the country is extinct. Consider:...

Peeyoosh

geethplease check your Private MessgaesPEeyoosh

Peeyoosh

SanjayBiejing to New Delhi is around 3700 km., if that helps.Use : http://russia.shaps.hawaii.edu/ap-distance-calc.htmlPeeyoosh

Peeyoosh

Any idea on the relative cost? From what I know the Prithvi is an expensive system to maintain (other than the fact that it is inherently destablizing by telegrapghing intentions and encouraging thoughts of a 1st strike). The longer range Agni is expensive to build and can send mixed signals to t...

Peeyoosh

MandeepSometimes mixed motives have great ends. Congrats to a very deserving warrior and a fine human being.Peeyoosh

Peeyoosh

Quality roadways coming up is having a second effect that is just great - citites are declogging as people move to suburbs - around Delhi places like NOIDA and a whole host of satellite suburbs have emerged in the last few years. Seeing such satellite cities come up around Bangalore and Pune too. In...

Peeyoosh

SanjayThe engineer in me can see how HESH would work against concrete bunkers, but wouldn't simple measure like sandbags around the walls take away from the efectiveness which relies so heavily on the hard non -yielding surface being available to shape the charge?Finally - has anyone evaluated...

Peeyoosh

NitinIn Rajasthan the sand is very soft, hard for tanks to function effectively, in the J&K gettinga 2000 m shot will be very very rare - in Punjab too there are bunds and ditches, tactical driving will ensure that such long range shots are very rare.Maybe range is less of a concern as opp...

Peeyoosh

If true this is a huge investment in armour.In 5/6 years the military balance would be pretty bad for the Pakis with the Su 30s fully inducted, the arty upgrades over and the Mig 21s upgraded to the 93 standard.I wonder if we are likely to see some action before that happens - how likely is it...

Peeyoosh

Any idea how old the T-59s are? If they are over 25 years old (mid 70s vintage, which is likely) those tanks are in no shape for extended ops.Interesing to read the upgraded planned. From T-59s new gun, new FCS, new communications would be priority and ERA to add. All this would add weight too...

Peeyoosh

Most of Punjab and Rajasthan is not very good chopper territory - low rolling pains without much tree cover. It would be BI/CAS oeprations using Mig 27s/Jags and Mig 21 Mongols.The emphasis my be on throttling supply columns feeding any push as much as the spearhead itself.More to the point ma...

Peeyoosh

SumairAgree completely. the best counter to the tank acquisition is an AWACS capability! KO the air cover, then the tanks are so many tin cans.Peeyoosh

Peeyoosh

MichaelThat is fairly easily answered:a) The PA has been spending on defenisive weaponry in the shape of canals, tank dicthes etc. quite extensively. b) The latest weapons are in consonance with the PA's basic defensive strategy - essentially given the size and the diversity of teh border a...

Peeyoosh

Thanks merlin, howz trix? Hope B'lore is treating you well.The leading edge surfaces will be key - should give the LCA a lot more capability.Peeyoosh

Peeyoosh

RamaBuy what you say, jsut wish someone would give hard data.Wonder where ADA/HAL would have been if they had started off with the HJT-36 and a AJT instead of the LCA?Any public dope on TD-2? Is it the version with the leading edhe control surfaces? I can't wait to see that one happen.Pe...

Peeyoosh

guys getting back to aviation:Does anyone know the derivation of the numbers being thrown around? Is it fully loaded costs inlcuding R and D, capital costs or is marginal costs? wish we knew whether we are comparing apples and oranges or what.

Peeyoosh

RamaAgree, the TCO for a Su 30 MKI would be multiples of that for a LCA and the relaibiltiy of spare parts and supplies may also be a big issue given the financial state of sukhoiEven at US$ 30 mm, I do not see us building up more than a 100 of these planes, probably fewer.Peeyoosh

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