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by GeorgeWelch
17 Apr 2015 10:17
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

The hornet is not going to make it. Two reasons why - one - it failed critical hot and high tests, There were minor issues that were easily addressed, it was a non-issue. 2 - it doesn't bring much to the table compared to other contenders. When it's the one that's more affordable and available in t...
by GeorgeWelch
17 Apr 2015 10:12
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Singha wrote:the SH was the weakest of the lot at high alt ops iirc. it will be hard for it to overcome that tag.


I never saw a credible source for that information.
by GeorgeWelch
17 Apr 2015 08:33
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Q. So India will buy more Rafales after re-assessing requirements? Where does the LCA fit in the picture? A. I feel that some more Rafale jets may be required but need to figure out how we can acquire them. But more importantly, we need large number of aircraft to replace MiG variants over the next...
by GeorgeWelch
17 Apr 2015 01:57
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Vivek K wrote:Why not add 30 F16, 30 Gripen, 30 F18 and 30 Mig 35?


Because they're getting the F-35 instead
by GeorgeWelch
14 Apr 2015 12:16
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Q: But if you keep buying Russian hardware, you risk being manipulated by them? A: The reality is this – Russia post-Crimea is getting into deep financial waters and India holds the whip hand in its reins with Moscow, which is not the case with our reins with France. Who has more control over Russi...
by GeorgeWelch
14 Apr 2015 05:55
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

There is nothing that the Rafale brings to the table that a SU-30MKI does not in substantial terms. Let's not be silly, the Rafale provides a lot. I never could understand the "medium" business and still don't , on how it fits, where it fits and what is the need for that at all! The MKI i...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Apr 2015 22:46
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

What is unspoken is that if the French do not come back with an acceptable price, then GOI is free to look at other options for a Government to Government purchase for another aircraft. And Modi is now in Germany probably quietly lining up the Typhoon as a back up just in case...... And because all...
by GeorgeWelch
10 Apr 2015 23:49
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

2) Some additional sops for making the french bend on the terms of contract ( Ownership for HAL delays as an example ) 3) Getting a better price with a larger order This actually reduces your leverage and makes it harder to get concessions/lower prices on future contracts. If you were going to scra...
by GeorgeWelch
10 Apr 2015 02:15
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

If true, it's a good decision. I always said that the MRCA deal was too big with too many moving parts that would basically guarantee nothing ever happened. If you need a gap-filler, just purchase it outright. If you need ToT on something, negotiate with the best in the market separately without bei...
by GeorgeWelch
31 Mar 2015 12:38
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Austin wrote:Dassault: Work on India Rafale Sale 95% Done


Rafale was selected 1155 days ago. If the negotiating is 95% done now, then it will be finished in 60 days.
by GeorgeWelch
01 Mar 2015 04:45
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

1. I never said we don't need long strike missions. You may not have. Many others here have. I would not like to be in a Rafale loaded with fuel and with 3 huge drop tanks while the ground radar paints me and readies the S2A missiles. I would not want to be in either one. In that regards, they're b...
by GeorgeWelch
28 Feb 2015 15:20
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

There's no paucity of enemy fighters in our neighborhood particularly on the Chinese front. Every time the Rafale flies with those humongous tanks, its RCS is magnified and the aircraft rendered more vulnerable to enemy Flankers and/or AWACS. May as well employ the Su-30 at half price. I thought th...
by GeorgeWelch
28 Feb 2015 11:50
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

When you sling 3 large drop tanks, the Rafale does not remain a fighter. It becomes a bomb truck with which you can fly over friendly airspace and drop bombs on far away country with small or non-existent air defense. Or until you drop the drop tanks, then it becomes a fighter again. Yes, but dropp...
by GeorgeWelch
27 Feb 2015 06:00
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

NRao wrote:Looks like this GoI has caved in to some preshure.

Dassault 1 - GoI 0


Dassault is agreeing to guarantee the HAL-built jets.

I'm not sure how you interpret that as a win for Dassault.
by GeorgeWelch
25 Feb 2015 20:27
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

The attitude of the IAF baffles me: on the one hand they don't want Russian stuff yet we seem to be going full tilt on the SU-50 PAK/FA/FGFA. I think the point is they don't want any MORE Russian stuff. They already have MKI and they will have FGFA, that's a tremendous part of the combat fleet alre...
by GeorgeWelch
25 Feb 2015 00:11
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Livefist ‏@livefist 1h1 hour ago MoD sources: French Defence Minister delegation informed that a decision on Rafale will be taken by end of March at the latest. #MMRCA 1/3 Sources: French Defence Minister was assured that due process was being followed, negotiations committee report would be final w...
by GeorgeWelch
23 Feb 2015 22:11
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Gyan wrote:It seems cost of each Rafale will be equal to 4 Su-30MKIs


No.
by GeorgeWelch
23 Feb 2015 20:01
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

The Indian aerospace industry will not be able to absorb the TOT in large measure immediately. Whereas the MKI is already 70%+ indigenous Why would Rafale be harder to absorb than MKI? Also, should you choose the one that offers better technology, perhaps down the road, or the the one that offers n...
by GeorgeWelch
19 Feb 2015 04:00
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

NRao wrote:Nope.

Dassault said it too.

And, GoI said it too.

That there were problems.


Ok, I didn't phrase that correctly. Clearly there were (and may still be) problems, but I was thinking more of the whole 'Deal is Dead' histrionics.
by GeorgeWelch
19 Feb 2015 03:22
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013
Replies: 3967
Views: 134444

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

At 1:32:31, he talks of Su-30 costing $12000 per flying hour. That is quite low, and in fact, lower than the cost of Rafale (Google search gives me $16500 per hour). Not sure what to make of it. Pay in the IAF is less than the French air force. It's part of the reason making comparisons across diff...
by GeorgeWelch
19 Feb 2015 03:16
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

India is saying there are no problems, Dassault is saying there are no problems.

The only people saying there are problems are some media who read WAY too much into events. (Oh noes! The PM denied he was going to fly in it during the airshow! The Rafale is DOOOOMED!)
by GeorgeWelch
19 Feb 2015 03:10
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Philip wrote:The "insane" statements by Dassault cretins isn't winning friends,especially those at HAL.


Richard Aboulafia isn't Dassault.
by GeorgeWelch
14 Feb 2015 21:16
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Which I think is just fine. Use the Rafale for 15-20 years and toss them out. (the logic being IF India cannot produce a plane that is better than a Rafale (or Dassault) in 15/20 years then India better get out of the plan design/manu business). Even if you can build a better plane, that doesn't me...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 23:58
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

It is not self evident since we're not discussing the same company performing different tasks. Its an odd choice of word ('difficult') but sticking with it BHEL might find it more 'difficult' to manufacture a gun than HAL would find manufacturing an aircraft. Unless you know the core competencies o...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 22:02
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

You've made a claim about manufacturing aircraft at HAL (not BHEL) being more 'difficult' than manufacturing a gun at BHEL (not HAL), and then left unsupported. I claimed that manufacturing an aircraft is more difficult than manufacturing a gun, which is self-evident. You're the one making the stat...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 21:12
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Is building planes not much more difficult than building guns? How could you not say it's more risky? Its a pure business investment. 'Difficulty' has nothing to with it. You're not expecting the gun building company to invest in aircraft production. Difficulty has everything to do with it. More di...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 19:42
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Then why didn't they place a higher bid in the other competition to compensate? They may judged it a losing proposition i.e. attempting to match OTO Melara's expected lower bid. How would they know what the other company would bid? And even if the other bid was lower, there's always the possibility...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 08:03
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Shreeman wrote:What jet did BAE bring to MRCA? edit -- I see, the gun. Not the MRCA.


BAE owns a third of EF
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 08:02
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

BAE's problem was not with the 'reasonableness' of the contract (or lack thereof) but the risk-reward ratio. Its very much possible that it judged it acceptable for one contract and unacceptable for another. Or that it placed a higher bid for the contract to compensate. Then why didn't they place a...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 07:32
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

Dassault's position is that such liability clauses are absurd and no company would ever accept such terms. Dassault's position is that such terms are not in the RFP. BAE Systems opposed this arrangement, and in an official statement declared its unwillingness to accept the "disproportionate le...
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 04:07
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

srai wrote:^^^

Read it and you will understand.


Sorry to disappoint you, still not clear what point you're trying to make.
by GeorgeWelch
13 Feb 2015 03:34
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

srai wrote:This is from CAG's recommendation from the Su-30MKIs licence production audit. Here is that report: CHAPTER IX: DEFENCE PUBLIC SECTOR UNDERTAKINGS - 9.1 Licence production of Su-30 MKI aircraft


I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
by GeorgeWelch
12 Feb 2015 23:54
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

All this comes down to: does the RFP require Dassault to guarantee the work of HAL? India says it does, France is emphatic that it does not. Without being able to see the language of the contract, none of us knows. If it does not, France is not being arrogant, merely sticking to what they agreed to....
by GeorgeWelch
10 Feb 2015 20:57
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

pankajs wrote:I think this insistence on performance for HAL delivered aircraft is probably due to our experience with the scorpene deal.


Or it could just be a way to gracefully scuttle a deal that they now see as a bad bargain.
by GeorgeWelch
31 Jan 2015 22:31
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

[Speculative content from another forum pasted here by the poster deleted; George, don't pull this stunt again. It is nothing but flamebait of worst kind. Don't put up stuff you cannot substantiate either ways. Mind that in future. rohitvats]
by GeorgeWelch
10 Jan 2015 00:11
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

The Rafale "ToT" has a bigger role to play. A role that Reliance cannot play. What? HAL has repeatedly gotten these 'screwdriver' jobs and done NOTHING with them. That's not my opinion, I've heard that repeated countlessly on here. You bemoan the lack of a private aerospace industry, here...
by GeorgeWelch
09 Jan 2015 23:59
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

For me it is quite obvious, Dassault wants to part with as less as it can. RAL is colluding with them for profit. Indian MoD is rightly standing its ground in India's interest. The amount India is paying will be fixed in the contract regardless of whether HAL or Reliance is doing the final assembly...
by GeorgeWelch
09 Jan 2015 21:16
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

2. Whether the plane will be bought or not is in question, how can orders for its wings be awarded to RAL? They were awarded the wing pending approval of the contract. What Dassault wants us to believe is that that it can help Reliance with NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL to set up a factory to produce Rafale...
by GeorgeWelch
09 Jan 2015 19:23
Forum: Trash Can Archive
Topic: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014
Replies: 3963
Views: 136755

Re: Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions-9 August, 2014

manufacturing Rafales by the Reliance Corp. was a shocker. Only if you haven't been paying attention. They have invested over a billion dollars in their capabilities. Boeing will be sourcing 30% of its components worth hundreds of crores of rupees from the RIL Reliance has ALREADY been awarded manu...

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