Search found 1278 matches

by surinder
25 Jan 2012 23:29
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

Surinderji, Your accusation is unfair.Once someone(anyone) acquires power,he seeks to retain it.The Sikhs(or Brahmanas) too will be under scrutiny for the match between ideals and professions. ... But the Hindus who are accustomed to yugas will not accept any received thinking just as the Sikh pant...
by surinder
25 Jan 2012 09:27
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

The Khalistani distortion of SIkh history has tended to make it anti-Hindu. Like their depiction of hill-rajas as some sort of club that jointly attacked the guru :lol: . But that was never the case. These states were independent of Mughal control and waged war on each other ....their population ba...
by surinder
25 Jan 2012 09:18
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

I agree (after reading ) with Elst's assessment of " In spite of its title and its sometimes defiant wording, this “victory letter” (Zafar Nâma) to Aurangzeb is fundamentally submissive ". How can you be defiant and also submissive at the same time? Can you or your Elst make up his mind? ...
by surinder
25 Jan 2012 07:09
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

Sushupati, the you are posting long articles, web citations and expect us to argue against them. I for one will not take that bait. If you have a point, make it yourself, do not throw references, links and ask us to battle them.
by surinder
25 Jan 2012 04:05
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

^^^
Crap conclusion from crap historians.
by surinder
25 Jan 2012 01:06
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

Sushupati, you are quoting some of the most misguided and confused set of people. I used to go the VOI site. I thought they were reasonable people who believed in Hindu revival, but they are like an auto-immune disease who are attaching their own. They managed to put off a supporter like me. Incredi...
by surinder
24 Jan 2012 19:39
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

Sushupati, reading a lines out of context is not the way to understand anythihng. While respecting and not respecting something is your personal choice, not something I care much about, it is to be considered that you are stuck on the first few lines and unable to see the entire letter. Some of the ...
by surinder
24 Jan 2012 11:34
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

Most people do not realize that half the wars that Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought were with the Hindu Rajput Hill Rajas of hills of current day Himachal. Some of these of them were devotees of the Guru and remained faithful, some not. Some alternated between war and friendship. When Guru Ji was attacke...
by surinder
24 Jan 2012 11:26
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

I have always marveled at the coincident of Mughal appearance and departure happened in the same time period Gurus were here on Earth. Babar impirsoned Gurr Nanak and Aurnaga died before meeting Guru Gobind Singh .Whole Moghul rulers became Noghul within few decades after Guru's departure. The last...
by surinder
24 Jan 2012 11:14
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

^^ Sushupti, Carl said is it better than I could. Read the whole letter---Carl has posted the remaining ones. Salutations such are these were the norm of the society---the interesting comment later when the holy guru tells Aurangzeb that he is an unbeleiver, he took false oaths on the Quran. The zaf...
by surinder
24 Jan 2012 00:54
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

This is a history thread, so we should not venture into matters that deal with releigion per se. Last 130 years, post Macaullife history of Sikhs is born out of this new interpretation of Sikhism. How can we avoid this if we want to discuss Sikh history?. Firstly, that is an incorrect claim. It is ...
by surinder
23 Jan 2012 23:57
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

what is unique,new or special about it?. Religions are not characterized by "New" or "Unique". Copyright law, patent law, and scientific publications live and die by "New/Unique". If you want new stuff, read scientific journals, religions are not based on this. Sikhism...
by surinder
20 Jan 2012 21:42
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

SV was a Sanyasin, in the highest traditions of India's old Rishis & Munis. He was everything, and he was nothing. He was part of all groups and belonged to everyone, yet belonged to none. Please leave him out.
by surinder
20 Jan 2012 07:36
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Understanding Sikh History-1
Replies: 667
Views: 6139

Re: Understanding Sikh History-1

I am sorry, the article you quote is a broken record of old hackneyed stereotypes. It mixes some facts & truths with shoddy lies & half truths.
by surinder
18 Jan 2012 07:18
Forum: History & Current Affairs Archive
Topic: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies
Replies: 4186
Views: 65135

Re: Distorted history- Causes, consequences, remedies

Sushupti, The problem with this type of analysis is this---it assumes and tries to show that the "other" person has has distorted, clouded & muddy vision, but my own vision is crystal clear, free from any distortions. The claimaint is so confident of his listeners having been taken for...
by surinder
13 Jan 2012 21:35
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Much is made of MKG's philosophical leanings towards peaceful methods. But even there he did not seem to have followed it to its logical conclusions. If had taken his own ideas and followed them to the hilt, that would have been a potent weapon against the British. Many decades before MKG was born, ...
by surinder
13 Jan 2012 21:16
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

How was Bengal treated badly by JLN/INC or British vis-a-vis Punjab during partition?
by surinder
13 Jan 2012 21:07
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

As for Direct Action Day - a rather tame statement that Direct Action type action would onlee ruin and destroy ML rather than give it success. Obviously, in this case Sardar then proves to be a wrong predictor. ML does succeed in its objectives. Brihaspati beat met to it. The letter by Patel says a...
by surinder
13 Jan 2012 20:59
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

What you pointed out in your comment is that post-independence the INC policy has been to selectively distinguish congress leaders as pan-indian and others regional. I had even upped your/rudradev comment when I saw it. I probably did not understand the thrust of your comments. Sorry. Thanks for up...
by surinder
12 Jan 2012 23:49
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Take another example, one could ask why only mention Bhagat Singh (who I admire) but what about BK Dutt, or Rajguru, or Azad or Ashfaqullah or Bismil or the earlier generation of Rasbehari bose or Jatin Das? It is to be understood that using Bhagat Singh's name is a synonymous with all the ones you...
by surinder
12 Jan 2012 08:16
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

There are institutes named after sanjay gandhi, he did not even graduate bachelors. Then there are many stadiums, clubs, organizations, mohallas, roads, named after Kamala Nehru, Kasturba Gandhi, Motilal Nehru (hey why leave him out). I don't if they had any dogs or cats as pets, we probably might h...
by surinder
12 Jan 2012 00:16
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

^^ Very few local people commiserate. Most of them view this as a competition, my local hero was greater than your local hero. While the MKG/JLN/IG/SG/RG eath the lions share of limelight, the more the various "locals" compete for the crumbs. This is an indian problem too---we are too comp...
by surinder
11 Jan 2012 23:40
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

"SBajwa": Why aren't any more memorials created for Shaheed Bhagat Singh? He along with like minded people should be on the face of Indian currency too. No, that would put a dent to the history of the struggle where JLN and MKG duo are "solely" responsible behind India's freedom...
by surinder
11 Jan 2012 22:19
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Finance is another angle to look at. The individuals & organizations in the krantikary side had to scrape through to finance their work. They had either resort to taking money by force (e.g. kakory case, or pilfering government armories etc.) or be at the mercy of donations from salt of the eart...
by surinder
07 Jan 2012 11:37
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Were the Amrikhanis trying to give Canadian Visas? Or is there a new type of visa being granted?
by surinder
07 Jan 2012 11:26
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

archan wrote:Guys cool it. Airavat, that threat is not appreciated.


Posters have been banned for lesser violations. Why not in this case?
by surinder
07 Jan 2012 11:17
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Airavat wrote:Don't address any more childish queries to me since I have you and a couple of other gasbags on my "ignore list"


If they are in ignore lists, why are you responding?
by surinder
06 Jan 2012 23:36
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

While people keep talking about INC did this or that, what about the other parties in the provinces? Why for instance did the parties representing Sikhs also accept partition? Baldev Singh became defence minister in the government knowing full well what carnage would be unleashed against non-Muslim...
by surinder
06 Jan 2012 23:31
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Just as the passengers on the Komata maru did not need permission to leave India, similarly Nehru did not need permission from anybody to leave India. Whether he was admitted into the USSR was not upto the British, it was upto the Russians. Similarly if the passengers were admitted to Canada or the...
by surinder
06 Jan 2012 10:17
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

The US calculations over British India were not that complicated. US & Britain have had a long history of conflict, starting from indendence and culimanating in the Suez crisis. As SBajwa said, UK burnt the white house in 1812. US clashed on the canadian border. In the civil war, surprise surpri...
by surinder
05 Jan 2012 11:46
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

So the part of India which was at war with Britain, would magically make a deal with Britain's wartime ally, financial partner, not to mention future NATO partner and ally against Communism?????? :rotfl: Airavat, you don't get it. quit while you are ahead. "Britain's wartime ally, financial pa...
by surinder
05 Jan 2012 05:08
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Also, please do not forget where the "direct action" call against the Hindus first started. No Hindus died (AFAIK) in Kalat/Balochistan as a result of the partition. B'stan has been actually quite friendly to Hindus. There has been a substantial Hindu presence there. TSP army actually bom...
by surinder
04 Jan 2012 23:52
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

Hope all the Gandhi lovers put that into practice if they were ever in such a situation. Even Gandhi did not put his Gandhianism into practice. He would say similar nonsense through out those times as Hindus and Sikhs were being massacred, women being raped by Muslims. This is the second mistake th...
by surinder
04 Jan 2012 08:54
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

There is a fundamental flaw in the whole Partition narrative. A foundational flaw. INC foreswore *any* use of violence. That meant that all they could do was negotiate, and if they did not get what they wanted, they had to just negotiate harder. They had lost all leverage. INC then went ahead and op...
by surinder
04 Jan 2012 08:41
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

The collected works of Gandhi contradict your claim, look up his statements. ... He even tells Hindus that if everyone of them get killed by Muslim "brothers" then it will be better than Hindus retaliating and asks them to die cheerfully. All these are from his speeches during that time. ...
by surinder
03 Jan 2012 22:35
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

surinder-ji I agree and disagree with you. ISI has been quite an admirable "tactical" organization. In that they do not have the constraints of adhering to an overall strategy or being accountable or minimizing collateral damage. In its tactical objectives (some of which you had mentioned...
by surinder
02 Jan 2012 23:05
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: A look back at the partition
Replies: 1934
Views: 134071

Re: A look back at the partition

I totally agree with Brihaspati. But for the sake of argument let us accept that it was indeed better to accept partition otherwise a civil war would erupt. Even if I accept this ludicrous argument, but then that itself raises a whole lot of question: Why was it acceptable for the INC to have the Br...
by surinder
02 Jan 2012 22:38
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Now People have been asking why MMS and INC are sell outs. Here is an example why, when India is reeling under power cuts. Many Industries have to generate their own power, Chip manufactures have run away because of the power situation. It shocks me that India which is deficient in power is supplyi...
by surinder
02 Jan 2012 22:34
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Surinder the author is probably guilty of dramatization at best and bluffing at worst. Every single offensive weapon supplied to the Pakistan army was automatically assumed to be available to the Kashmir terrorists because India had no illusions about the separation between Pakistan army and mujahi...
by surinder
02 Jan 2012 22:25
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 2011
Replies: 2854
Views: 106183

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 06 Dec 201

Salman Ghumman was taken in to custody on December 21 by Immigration Department officials at Merlynston Station, just days after he was quizzed by authorities about phone calls made to Pakistan, NATO attacks, his movements and why he was in the country. Ghumman is a common Jatt Sikh last name in In...

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