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by peter
10 Jun 2015 18:22
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Peter despite clear explanations you are beginning to act like a troll here and that can be problematic. First caution. I am surprised you are accusing me of being a troll when in fact Agni has been changing the goal posts and has even changed the original question that was asked to fit it to the a...
by peter
06 Jun 2015 20:08
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

I am sure you don't mind commenting on what are the main tenets in the above paper? Does it still support OIT? I'm not even half an expert on genetics Peter ji. But I will read the paper and share my humble understanding of it. ---------------- Mesolithic-Neolithic Seafaring Migrations from the Ind...
by peter
06 Jun 2015 20:06
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

I said pre-Islam. You seem to be very confused reading posts, or this is nothing more than trolling. You are highly contradictory as is clear from your earlier messages. You said the following: Shahnamah ends at the mohammedan conquest of Persia. So it does not support your argument. I see you have...
by peter
21 May 2015 20:14
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat
Replies: 2455
Views: 381502

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

@Peter Name - Shivaji Bhakha Sources & Nationalism Published - 2001 by Books India International Author - Mahendra Pratap Singh According to the author, the original lies at Rajasthan Oriental Research Institute, Jaipur. They didn't express knowledge of the manuscript. But they told me that if ...
by peter
21 May 2015 20:07
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Can you please stop parading your ignorance? TURKS DID NOT CONQUER PERSIA! And here is a link with dates and place and actors involved. All Arabs no turks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia peter ji, is it so difficult for you to concede a point? Even assuming we all adopt your...
by peter
21 May 2015 20:03
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Can an expert unpack this paper: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n1/full/ejhg201450a.html Does it go against Underhill's earlier paper? Or for? Excerpt : ...We caution against ascribing findings from a contemporary phylogenetic cluster of a single genetic locus to a particular pre-historic d...
by peter
21 May 2015 20:00
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

...In case of Persia the native religion was almost fully destroyed very quickly and there is no reason to convert..... Absolutely correct observation. Zoroastrianism was destroyed very quickly. So the claim by Agnimitra that Turks became followers of Zoraster many hundred years after the initial c...
by peter
21 May 2015 07:35
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Shahnamah ends at the mohammedan conquest of Persia. So it does not support your argument. I see you have trouble following simple posts. Let me summarize for you - 1. Post-Islamic Turks conquering Muslim Persians and adopting Persianized Islam is well known. ....... .. Can you please stop parading...
by peter
21 May 2015 05:15
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Since you have also not presented which Turks became Fire Worshippers and in what time frame and by whom I presume you in the same boat? Sigh. Several Tartars, for example. I suggest you also check out the genealogies of Parsis. Also read the Shahnameh. Shahnamah ends at the mohammedan conquest of ...
by peter
20 May 2015 19:03
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

AIT debate is not as black and white as the flat earth theory unfortunately. Religious belief and AIT cannot be defeated by argument, the method is different... For me if AIT were true - 100% of supermodels would have the da hotz for you! :mrgreen: Even though I am a realist, I do hope for you it c...
by peter
20 May 2015 17:53
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

peter ji, What exactly are you arguing about? Your questions are high school level history. I admit I know not the high school history. Since you have also not presented which Turks became Fire Worshippers and in what time frame and by whom I presume you in the same boat? Ditto on other questions i...
by peter
19 May 2015 05:39
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

To pick on one example of yours: Persia was overrun by Arabs. And the Arabs converted the Fire Worshippers to their Mohamadden creed. Turks did not become fire worshippers as you seem to be alluding. I was alluding to Turks who became Islamized via the Persians, whom they conquered. You are still n...
by peter
19 May 2015 05:12
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

History of India for last 1,00,000 years based on genetics (Humans, cows, mice and such) by Dr. Priyadarshi (My apologies if this was posted by someone else before on this thread) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l7VsR-dW-c&sns=fb Can an expert unpack this paper: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/jour...
by peter
19 May 2015 05:09
Forum: Military Issues & History Forum
Topic: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat
Replies: 2455
Views: 381502

Re: Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat

Seva di Var: Were you able to find the original manuscript? Which book has the translation and by whom? What does it say about escape of Shivaji from Delhi?
by peter
17 May 2015 14:27
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

In any case the victorious invaders would stamp their own beliefs rather than be stamped by the beliefs of the conquered. This is silly. World history is full of less civilized tribes overtaking decadent centers of civilization, only to adopt its culture and become its torchbearers. E.g., the tribe...
by peter
17 May 2015 14:21
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

If I may say so, peter ji has always been an active contributor on the OIT threads, and his inputs have always given an impetus for fruitful discussions. I agree. His active and tenacious contributions (and holding on to a point of view) has lead to additional fruitful threads... I thank you for su...
by peter
17 May 2015 14:18
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

It would serve you and your friend well if you acquainted yourself with some books on AIT to grasp that the rajput making example at Arbud is invoked constantly by the AIT side in support of AIT. If you don't even understand what is being debated why show your ignorance? Here is my friends response...
by peter
17 May 2015 14:11
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Why would "new groups" be "allowed" to become Kshatriyas? If they were invaders then presumably they could have forced the Brahmanas but we see no such examples in the case of Greeks, Kushans, Sakas or Turks/Mughals and British. In any case the victorious invaders would stamp th...
by peter
17 May 2015 14:05
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

You had asked how this debate on Kshatriyas is relevant to AIT thread. I described to you what "mainstream" historians believe/write and hence made an effort to show the connection but obviously it is too dense for you to grasp it. Flat Earth Theory was also main stream, what to do onlee!...
by peter
10 May 2015 18:19
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

What is the relevance of this Kshatriyas controversy being discussed to OIT? No it is not a serious question - it is cynical sarcasm onlee! In deriving support for OIT from the Puranas and Ithasas, some people are taking too seriously the "lineages" of Kshatriyas mentioned in those works,...
by peter
10 May 2015 18:13
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Can you please give the exact quote from Panini and Mahabharata? Manusmriti 10.43-44: (I do not have time for using the transliteration scheme) shanakaistu kriyaalopaadimaa kshatriyajaatayah vrishalatvam gataa loke brahmanaadarshanena ca paundrakaashchoudradravidaah kaambojaa yavanaah saakaah paara...
by peter
10 May 2015 14:02
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

This is a response from a friends who does not post on BRF: Many Kshatriyas are designated as foreigners by respectable historians world over including Indians. Who are foreigners? If someone from todays Iran, Afghanistan, Paksistan, Tibet, Mongolia, Burma, etc historically came into the Northern p...
by peter
10 May 2015 12:33
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

What is the relevance of this Kshatriyas controversy being discussed to OIT? No it is not a serious question - it is cynical sarcasm onlee! Many Kshatriyas are designated as foreigners by respectable historians world over including Indians. Gujars are termed same as Khajars. Rajputs as white Huns s...
by peter
10 May 2015 08:47
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Virendraji, If you dont mind,can you list the clans common to Panini and Kautilya or point to some links? Few of the many martial republics that find mention in Kautilya's ArthaShastra are of Madrakas, Vrijikas, Lichchhivikas, Kurus, Panchalas and others. It also says many of these clans were domin...
by peter
10 May 2015 08:45
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

We may be on the same page for most of the discussion, but I am still baffled by this contention of yours. I am confident that Rajputs are 100% Kshatriyas but I fail to understand why you are arguing that they are at least "partial" Kshatriyas. Again, please consider the following: 1) Ksh...
by peter
29 Apr 2015 18:58
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

We may be on the same page for most of the discussion, but I am still baffled by this contention of yours. I am confident that Rajputs are 100% Kshatriyas but I fail to understand why you are arguing that they are at least "partial" Kshatriyas. Again, please consider the following: 1) Ksh...
by peter
29 Apr 2015 18:56
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Which is why I argued that medieval Rajputs may not be pure kshatriyas, but partial they are. Regards, Virendra I am confident that Rajputs are 100% Kshatriyas but I fail to understand why you are arguing that they are at least "partial" Kshatriyas. When I said partial, I meant from blood...
by peter
17 Feb 2015 18:56
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

एकाचेतत्सरस्वती नदीनां शुचिर्यती गिरिभ्य आ समुद्रात्।RV 7.95.2 Pure in her course from the mountains to the oceans, अम्बितमे नदीतमे देवितमे सरस्वति। अप्रशस्ता इव स्मसि प्रशस्तिमम्ब नस्कृधि || - RV 2.41.16 Best of mothers, best of rivers, best of goddesses Sarsawati, we are untrained and ignorant. G...
by peter
17 Feb 2015 18:53
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Is there a concise summary of the genetic evidence pertaining to AIT somewhere, explained in layman terms without all those "haplotypes" and "haplogroups" jargon? Need it to refute a pesky and persistent AIT-fan. TIA. Written by me. Copyright belongs to me - part of a chapter fr...
by peter
28 Dec 2014 19:35
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

RajeshA wrote:.... It is supposed to be the "Birthday of the Sun" and not the "Birthday of the Son"!

Does it matter whether it is son or Sun?

After all belief does not obey logic.

BTW you have not supplied a definition of Dharm yet :)!
by peter
28 Dec 2014 19:33
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

^^^ http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/104/01/0042.pdf would suggest those Woods Hole papers did not come to acceptable conclusions about the Saraswati. Modern research papers on Saraswati validate what is written in Mahabharat and other Sanskrit works. Namely the break up of Saraswati into la...
by peter
26 Dec 2014 18:53
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Great! Mahabharata has no history and neither anything Indians wrote! Wow no difference between your stance and those of JNU/AMU and western historians There is a specific traditional claim made by Hindus (read those that follow Sanathana Dharma) on the Vedas - That they are eternal with no author ...
by peter
26 Dec 2014 18:45
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Arguments about he said she said are irrelevant. Discuss specific examples. I have put forth a rk in an earlier post about Indian rivers. Do you have a point which contradicts what I am saying? You can decide: I am only posting some excerpts from the Secret of the Vedas, you will have to read it yo...
by peter
21 Dec 2014 06:54
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Remember one thing very clearly that if Indians do not interpret Rg Ved then others *will* interpret it for you. And if all Indians are *stupid* enough that they cannot interpret or understand Rg Veda then they should all go jump in chullu bhar paani. BTW for the record I believe you are totally wr...
by peter
21 Dec 2014 06:53
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

BTW for the record I believe you are totally wrong. Rg Ved has history, geography and a whole host of stuff in it and humans have known it for thousands of years. Have you read Sri Aurobindo's take on it? He does not denote History or Geography to the names in the Rig but makes the argument that th...
by peter
20 Dec 2014 18:30
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

....One crucial point is that the sounds of the Veda are *literally* eternal, impersonal, universal, and have no specific connection to any events, people, or cultures that may have existed on this planet. And you say this on whose authority? Whatever such connections may seem to exist, have been d...
by peter
18 Dec 2014 06:29
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5327
Views: 654479

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

........ In short, there is a whole group of people who have not the foggiest idea of Veda and its branches of study, but are busy promoting historical quackery based upon it. I am despairing for the future of Indian thought and scholarship. Damn it. Some time back you had mentioned this: https://f...
by peter
05 Dec 2014 13:11
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sense?
Replies: 1266
Views: 66502

Re: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sen

Why Hindu Nationalism is spoken of in a pejorative sense? Because they don't do enough to suppress Hindu-Muslim riots (nor do other secular parties, except the Congress) - research from Yale University: (draft of the paper): http://nellis.commons.yale.edu/files/2014/05/Do-parties-matter-for-ethnic-...
by peter
05 Dec 2014 12:09
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sense?
Replies: 1266
Views: 66502

Re: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sen

.... Where is the support for Hindu scholars to deep-dive Christian works the way the Western universities have deep-dived into Sanskrit, Itihaas, etc.? Heck, where is the support for Hindu scholars to deep-dive Hindu works? All we do is fight over German v. Sanskrit in Kendriya Vidyalayas. ... Lac...
by peter
05 Dec 2014 12:07
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sense?
Replies: 1266
Views: 66502

Re: Why is "Hindu Nationalism" spoken of in a pejorative sen

Why Hindu Nationalism is spoken of in a pejorative sense? Because they don't do enough to suppress Hindu-Muslim riots (nor do other secular parties, except the Congress) - research from Yale University: (draft of the paper): http://nellis.commons.yale.edu/files/2014/05/Do-parties-matter-for-ethnic-...

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