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by peter
03 Jun 2016 07:48
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

and shows "mutation: 4G to 3G". What does this mean? It means that a string that used to have 4 Gs in a row got zapped in a mutation and became 3 Gs in a row. The particular G that got zapped is marked by that position number and is clearly marked on the image I have posted. You can see 4...
by peter
02 Jun 2016 05:44
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

M17 showing point of deletion of one G at point 21733168 http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/bennedose/m17map_zps8yxyfjbq.jpg Yes. But this is what Agupta posted earlier: M17 Details Name: M17 Type: snp Source: indel Position: ChrY:21733168..21733168 (+ strand) Length: 1 allele_anc: ins allele...
by peter
01 Jun 2016 20:45
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Since M17 is at position 21733168..21733168 how does 4Gs connect since the space seems to be only for 2 letters as in the above picture? Sorry. Cannot understand your question. Don't know what you mean by two and four. A single nucleotide change is one change. Not two or four. And the change can be...
by peter
01 Jun 2016 16:12
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

What is meaning/significance of position? Where is the zero position situated at? Each human chromosome is two strings (one string from mother, and one string from father) attached to each other at the center. This central attachment point is called the centromere and chromosomes get their cross sh...
by peter
01 Jun 2016 05:14
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

What is meaning/significance of position? Where is the zero position situated at? This supergiant molecule of DNA is like a long thread. Position is position on this thread. One end of the long strand of DNA is the zero position. Also what does count_derived and count_tested means? Same query of pr...
by peter
31 May 2016 10:05
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

That makes sense! So when we say M420 or M17 or M... what does it mean? Also if you can throw some light on what differentiates M17 from Z93? 1. The human Y-chromosome is some 21,753,000 base pairs long. (PS: see *** below) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-nucleotide_polymorphism#Databases ) ...
by peter
31 May 2016 05:38
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

fanne wrote:Then Peter you are not fit to be a scholar. But if you see the logic, you can join the likes of Thappar bro and sis

Are you praising me or criticizing me? See I am not even smart enough to understand that.
by peter
31 May 2016 05:31
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Very interested. I had read your post. My specific query is how is the assumption of mutation rate fixed and what relationship does it have with evolution if any? I will stick to evolution because I am not arguing about the use of mutation rates - which is outside of my expertise and casual interes...
by peter
30 May 2016 19:28
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

As a general comment on logic used for the purpose of rhetoric 1. The cow can be tied to a coconut tree to restrict its freedom 2. Coconut trees can restrict the freedom of cows 3. The name coconut milk is designed to promote coconuts and devalue cow's milk. 4. Coconut trees are the natural enemies...
by peter
30 May 2016 19:27
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

It may be "fair" but point "b" is still complete nonsense. How so? How interested are you in finding out? I have already made one post stating my reasons. Please read and get back if there is something that is not clear. Very interested. I had read your post. My specific query i...
by peter
30 May 2016 08:20
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

peter wrote:
johneeG wrote:....
Genetic dating is based on rate of mutation. Rate of mutation is
a) assumed
b) based on evolution theory.

...

This is a fair point I think.

shiv wrote:It may be "fair" but point "b" is still complete nonsense.

How so?
by peter
30 May 2016 08:20
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Speaking of ancient India, and the antiquity of it and the knowledge of it, here's a link that throws up some intriguing possibilities: https://books.google.nl/books?id=POxJAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=India+%2B+amara+%2B+source+of+the+nile&source=bl&ots=1XuooI7N1R&sig=4Wx6i...
by peter
30 May 2016 08:15
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

johneeG wrote:....
Genetic dating is based on rate of mutation. Rate of mutation is
a) assumed
b) based on evolution theory.

...

This is a fair point I think.
by peter
22 May 2016 08:01
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

it is very clear that Steppe and India share R1a1a parental line and last shared ancestry was when M417 split in to z283 and Z93. Most indian Z93 also have Z94. Z94 was born around same time when it is found in Poltavka sample above. This is a strong indication that Z94 was born outside India somew...
by peter
21 May 2016 03:43
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

.. Since the tree shows 417 is one node up from z282 and z93 one possibility is everyone who has z282 or z93 has m417 but not all m417 have z93 or z282? I think so, but now that you ask, I will work on understanding the actual algorithms and analysis that is done. Any light you can throw on your an...
by peter
17 May 2016 18:49
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Comment by one 'Arash' in Kalavai Venkat's AIT blog Arash Indian civilization is just an extension of Iranian civilization as proved by this Aryan invasion theory. Hinduism is just an extension of Zoroastrianism. India is just a geographical place where the martial Iranian tribes starting from the ...
by peter
16 May 2016 07:40
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

There seems to be a pattern in all this. Every time a new field or new discovery is made, the assorted Indologists and linguists claim that as proof for AIT. By the time the rest of the folks catch up and point out the flaws, they move on to a more recent discovery and say why this is correct and s...
by peter
15 May 2016 19:13
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

It does. But still not clear and the fault is mine. Say Z93. Two individuals A and B: AB 00 (none have it) 01 (B has it) 10 (A has it) 11 (both have it) How does this determine who is older? Can you give an example with another gene and Z93 to help clarify the example. In other words if we use two ...
by peter
15 May 2016 14:43
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Is it possible for you to explain in a bit non techy language why the conclusions of two underhill papers are different? I'll try. I am writing this from memory so pardon me for any errors. First thing to understand is nature of the research in population genetics. Genes by themselves are real thin...
by peter
14 May 2016 13:38
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

These "Iranians" may have been part of early migrations that contributed to ANI because they went and mixed with ASI/Onge Andaman genes that are 24,000 years old in India (and 48,000 years old in Andamans) But if you take Underhill dates - one paper puts the earlier M17 as over 12,000 yea...
by peter
13 May 2016 03:53
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Are ANI & ASI defined based on autosomes or chromosomes? Is it possible to find composition of ANI & ASI in this tree ? http://i.imgur.com/79092TC.jpg No. This tree is for male sex chromosome (Y chromosome) only ANI and ASI are autosomes Human genome consists of 22 pairs (total 44) of chrom...
by peter
03 May 2016 17:10
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Memories are long. Tamil teacher back in school would always talk about the "Airavati river in Burma." Being curious, I went and looked it up, and that's when I realized that the "Irrawady" was actually the "Airavati." That was the first inkling I had, that the Indian ...
by peter
01 May 2016 04:05
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Peter wrote.. Kaliyuga had not begun because of Krishna's presence Nilesh Is this statement 'testable' in the sense of empirical evidence? If yes, it will solve all the confusion surrounding 'beginning of Kaliyuga'. Hanumanji says that Kaliyuga is about to start in his conversation with Bhim that y...
by peter
01 May 2016 04:01
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

But Rajesh how do we reconcile 30 odd generations between ramayana and mahabharata as our scriptures suggest? There is a listing of Suryavanshi kings, where Rama is 64th and Brihadbala is 94th at whose time Mahabharata is supposed to have taken place. Actually after Agnivarna, the 88th king, there ...
by peter
30 Apr 2016 19:32
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Nope. See Vaman Purana: tatra devīṃ dadarśātha puṇyāṃ pāpavimocanīm / plakṣajāṃ brahmaṇaḥ putrīṃ harijihvāṃ sarasvatīm // VamP_23.13 // Here Saraswati is her daughter. pūrvaṃ prajeyaṃ prapitāmahena sṛṣṭā samaṃ bhūtagaṇaiḥ samastaiḥ /VamP_23.44.1 / Here Saraswati is his first creation amongst rivers...
by peter
30 Apr 2016 13:47
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

All children, disciples (especially if they did not stick to another lineage, as their name) and descendants of these are Vasisthas too. We have 'deified' Vasistha (in the form of Star Mizar) at the time of Ramayana itself. There is Vasistha in Ramayana (12209 BCE) and there is Vasistha in Mahabhar...
by peter
30 Apr 2016 13:43
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Johnneeg: The key for identifying Saraswati in Ramayana is the river Ikshumati. अभिकालम् ततः प्राप्यते बोधिभवनाच्च्युताम् | पितृपैतामहीम् पुण्याम् तेरुरिक्षुमतीम् नदीम् || २-६८-१७ Note the use of the word Pitrapaitamahi. This adjective has been explained by drawing a connection with the ancestors o...
by peter
30 Apr 2016 13:38
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Mahabharata war has some connection to data in Surya Siddhanta which states that the sun was 54 degrees away from the vernal equinox when Kali-yuga began on a new moon day. This corresponds to February 17/18, 3102 at Ujjain (75deg47minE 23deg 15 min N). I wonder if you know whether Nilesh has an ex...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 05:31
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

You are arguing for a sought of bell cuve like response to the atrocities against the shudras. This is a reasonable assumption and probably it does have fat tails. We have tangential evidence for it. I am arguing for evidence based historical accuracy where all our past is not based on one set of b...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 04:45
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

Does anyone (johnny?) have all references to Saraswati in Valmiki ramayana handy? How does one determine which is the oldest ramayana text we have? स प्रान् मुखो राज गृहात् अभिनिर्याय वीर्यवान् | ततः सुदामाम् द्युतिमान् सम्तीर्वावेक्ष्य ताम् नदीम् || २-७१-१ ह्लादिनीम् दूर पाराम् च प्रत्यक् स्रोतः त...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 04:30
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

.. Anybody who has a problem with that, needs to disprove his theory. For Mahabharata, there is a date: Start of War: Oct 16, 5561 BCE as provided by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak. and 3138 BCE as believed by traditionalists based on the start of the Kālī Era at midnight on February 18, 3102 BCE . For the tr...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 04:15
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

Are you really rooting for no oppression against Dalits? Are you really interested in my answer? If you are, read on. Or else others will read. Like n1g.gers and c.h.i.n.k.s I want to point out first that from a constitutional viewpoint there is no community called "dalits". They are call...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 03:33
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

^^^^^^^ ..... This ersatz idea of perriar goons driving folks out is just that, an over blown and over hyped concoction. That he troubled brahmins is undoubtedly true and he was an antisocial, unpatriotic and an eager EJ puppet ...... Really? 2006: http://swarajyamag.com/politics/hate-crime-cutting...
by peter
26 Apr 2016 03:22
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

^^^^^^^ ..... This ersatz idea of perriar goons driving folks out is just that, an over blown and over hyped concoction. That he troubled brahmins is undoubtedly true and he was an antisocial, unpatriotic and an eager EJ puppet ...... Really? 2006: http://swarajyamag.com/politics/hate-crime-cutting...
by peter
25 Apr 2016 19:25
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

^^^^^^^ The rise of Balasahab Thackeray in Bombay was by beating up and terrorizing of tamil brahmans who got booted out of Tamil Nadu by Periyar goons aka the dravida movement. This is highly self serving and patently untrue. thackeray was catholic in his violence and terrorizing. It wasn't only t...
by peter
25 Apr 2016 19:09
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

Because the Buddhists did not survive. Neither did Parsis in Persia. What inferences do you draw? The minimal inference : Organized centers of religion/society were destroyed. The widely distributed survived in some form, greatly mutilated no doubt. Yes. So religions with a "centre" got s...
by peter
25 Apr 2016 19:06
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

.... About Swami Vivekananda's view of the peaceful spread of Islam quoted in my earlier post I have nothing further to say Agree that Swamiji is wrong here. But do note he is talking about events which happened many hundred years before him. So if he is not fully informed about that period it is a...
by peter
25 Apr 2016 18:49
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2
Replies: 5308
Views: 649615

Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth: Part 2

RajeshA wrote:For Ramayana, there is a date: Rāma-Janam: Nov 29, 12240 BCE as provided by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak.

Anybody who has a problem with that, needs to disprove his theory.

...

This date is on slippery slope since we have only 28 odd kings from the time of Rama to the time of Krishna.
by peter
25 Apr 2016 12:19
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

You know this is oft repeated that somehow Hindus had this magic wand that they waved and they survived the "Islamic plunder" . Why is it so difficult to see that it has got nothing to do with religion that Hindu Dharma survived in India? Because the Buddhists did not survive. Neither did...
by peter
25 Apr 2016 12:18
Forum: Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum
Topic: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society
Replies: 441
Views: 48840

Re: Tradition, Culture, Religion & Law in Indian Society

Well Have you read Swami Vivekananda? His travels in Kerala are well documented. This question is actually a more pertinent one than might appear on the surface. Everyone knows caste bad, upper caste only screw lower caste. And for this the Government refers to the caste classification made by the ...

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