India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Mort Walker
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 11 Apr 2021 23:31

Rohit_K wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:TWITTER
@InsightGL writes:


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trend ... ssion=true

US govt issues notification for sale of F-16s to Pakistan

Total cost 700 million


Original tweet has been deleted: https://twitter.com/InsightGL/status/13 ... 2866514946

The money control article was FIRST PUBLISHED: JAN 1, 2016 12:00 AM

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trend ... ssion=true

Don't know what Twitter handles get from peddling and repackaging old news.



Yes, that's old news. Someone deliberately (moneycontrol.com) repackaged it. There are mischief makers intent on ruining relations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 11 Apr 2021 23:33

https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/13 ... 3197150208

The sheer irony of this song when the @USNavyCNO
was fully aware of @US7thFleet
's planned FONOPS against a "Major Defense Partner"

This is as innocent as tripping someone under the full glare of the papparazi. LEMOA , COMCASA and BECA come to nought if our redlines are violated.


Nothing to worry about. Aal is well. US Navy may have momentarily war-mongered and violated India's EEZ, but now the US Navy is singing crappy bollywood songs, so all is forgiven. Glad US and India resolved this as two great democratic allies.

These oiseaules must really think Indians are a bunch of morons.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sreerudra » 12 Apr 2021 02:01

NRao wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:
If I was a betting man, I'd say that a new friendship deal between the US and China is about to be announced - and backdoor finishing touches are being given. Business as usual indeed - a nice spanking by Wang and Co., made US see the light.


In that case, one might as well shut the DoD.

There is a distinct possibility that there is a gap between DoD and whoever is dealing with this friendly whatever.

Like the Intel, the DoD has a life of its own. Ask Trump.

However, given the current eco situation it is possible that China has negotiated a deal with Wall Street, signed off by the WH. After all Dimon has been very active recently. But, DoD is very formidable. They will ask and get their pound of flesh.


What is the possibility that DoD and SleepyByeDen administration are playing good cop bad cop? How about the Deep State virus is slowly working its way and DoD is next to be infected? It is clear that ByeDen is here to stay and India better watch its back.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_Sharma » 12 Apr 2021 02:09

TWITTER

@Rajivmessage:

European colonial powers fought each other over control of colonies. But also made treaties with each other to divide the colonies among themselves. Same way, don’t be surprised if USA & China (being pragmatic & unemotional) carve out the world between themselves.

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 77314?s=19

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 12 Apr 2021 04:14

Manish_Sharma wrote:TWITTER

@Rajivmessage:

European colonial powers fought each other over control of colonies. But also made treaties with each other to divide the colonies among themselves. Same way, don’t be surprised if USA & China (being pragmatic & unemotional) carve out the world between themselves.

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 77314?s=19


This was actually implied in the DNC 2020 Election Platform and by statements that the Xiden administration appointees made. There is an implied agreement between the US, EU and China. A political-economic-strategic arrangement to divide the world's resources among these three. In Asia, Japan and Korea are firmly in the US sphere. The odd ball out is India which must be brought under control. This is why the re-election of Donald Trump was so important. He wasn't getting a cut of the action and was in the process of disrupting the status quo by throwing the Eurotrash to the curb, slowing Chinese manufacturing prowess and repatriating USD back. From 2021-2025 would have been enough time for India to become a $5T GDP without too many distractions.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Kashi » 12 Apr 2021 04:41

Mort Walker wrote:There are mischief makers intent on ruining relations.


I think you'll find that your govt. is doing a pretty good job of it by themselves.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 12 Apr 2021 05:41

Kashi wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:There are mischief makers intent on ruining relations.


I think you'll find that your govt. is doing a pretty good job of it by themselves.


That is exactly what I meant.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Apr 2021 08:54

Rishi_Tri wrote:Storm in a tea cup I would say.
Next time someone is fishing off Lakshadweep, conveniently conduct a 'friendly missile' test close by to test inter forces operability. All shall be good.

USA is doing India a great favor by making it clear that it can not be trusted beyond border conflicts with the Sugarland. They will supply us with arms and information on a short term basis. Certainly no long term arms buying from them, as they will turn on a dime and sanction. This was the case in 1962, after the end of the incursions. As they have demonstrated their unreliability with the UK, France and the Nato, we must factor in the fact that they can not be relied to deliver on the long run. They do not want allies, just vassals.
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Apr 2021 09:22

https://www.rediff.com/news/column/comm ... 210412.htm
Why the US navy's actions must worry India
By Commodore VENUGOPAL MENON (Retd), April 12, 2021

In a highly aggressive move, the US navy publicly announced that it conducted 'freedom of Navigation' operation in India's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) about 130 nautical miles west of the Lakshadweep islands last week without New Delhi's prior consent.
What is shocking is the US navy's seventh fleet spokesperson' statement: 'The Arleigh Burke class missile destroyer USS John Paul Jones asserted navigational rights and freedoms around 130 miles west of the Lakshadweep islands on 7th April without requesting India's prior consent.'
'We conduct routine and regular FONOPs as we have done in the past and will continue to do so in future. FONOPs are not about one country, nor are they about making political statements.'
'The US forces operate in the Indo-Pacific region on a daily basis, with all operations designed in accordance with international law and demonstrate that the US will fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows,' the spokesperson added. The strongly worded nature of the seventh fleet statement was evident as it said India's requirement of prior consent is inconsistent with international laws and the freedom of navigation operations was intended to challenge its excessive maritime claims. In this context, it is prudent to understand India's stated position on the United Nations Convention on the Laws of the sea (UNCLOS), that the convention does not authorise other states to carry out in the EEZ and on the continental shelf, military exercises or maneuvers, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives without the consent of the coastal state. India's domestic laws hold any country carrying out military maneuvers in its EEZ must provide prior notification. Although there are many articles suggesting that nothing untoward has happened and the US Navy is well within its rights to exercise freedom of navigation through our EEZ, I have a different view with respect to the interpretation of SRL 3 of Article 58 of THE UNCLOS which deals with rights and duties of other states in the exclusive economic zone.
Quote 'In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this convention in the exclusive economic zone, states shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal state and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal state in accordance with the provisions of this convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this part.' In this regard, it is pertinent to mention that the Maritime Zones of India Act 1976 has laid down certain provisions for transit of warships through territorial waters only with prior notice to the central government and the same is extendable up to contiguous zones. As far as the EEZ is concerned India had raised certain reservations on military maneuvers at the time of signing and accession to UNCLOS and those issues remain pending to date. UNCLOS has many ambiguities and the interpretation of article 58 is one of them, and navies have been exploiting it ever since.
However statements of such exploits to challenge the local regulations of a coastal state are high headed and uncalled for. I do not agree with the statements of analysts that the intent was to send a political message to China that the US treats friends and foes alike. In any case such acts do not ruffle a feather in China. Official sources have claimed on record that the warship was tracked by the Indian authorities throughout her passage.
......
Gautam
ALSO SEE: https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... t-7269343/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby AshishA » 12 Apr 2021 10:56

Okay. What should we our response to this gross violation?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 12 Apr 2021 11:13

AshishA wrote:Okay. What should we our response to this gross violation?


The IN and USN interact at a number of levels. There is the need to find out who authorized this and whether it was the CNO or someone above him. Then there's the claim the USN shut of IFF, and if that's true is a big deal. What would have happened had the IAF or IN fired a missile or torpedo? Imagine if sensors on a IN P-8I identify a threat? It means the Quad is nothing but nonsense and a waste of time and resources. The Pentagon folks need to be told that such actions jeopardize billions in arms sales and this doesn't make sense. It seems there are people in the US government wanting to cause permanent damage to India-US relations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 12 Apr 2021 11:53

It is bizarre to see that there are members on this board who want to find out why the Americans trespassed on their territory. The Americans released a press statement and openly challenged India's territorial ownership. Yet people want to find out why? Who is the person behind this? Is it biden? Is it some commander in PACOM? Is it some baptist in Iowa?

India and the US are two seperate civilizations
Two individual civilizations cannot be friends
Remember hindi-chini bhai bhai?
Civilizations are always in conflict with each other.

Sometimes they will gang up on one(like on Iran the pariah who is neither Zoroastrian and neither accepted by Islam). A bas***d case.

The Americans are friends of no one. Partners of no one. No observer has yet been able to figure out what the term "major defence partner" means. The term "freedom of navigation" is as political as renaming the region as indo-pacific. You are being pulled into a warzone where you have much to loose and nothing to gain.

It the Americans cannot stop chinas rise as the global economic powerhouse - a global supplier of goods and technology. They will make the trade routes of Chinese trade vulnerable to disruption. The Chinese cannot replace the US dollar unless they can place their military around the oceans who can provide security to the trade done in yuan/renminbi.
Last edited by nvishal on 12 Apr 2021 12:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 12 Apr 2021 12:04

Mort Walker wrote:
AshishA wrote:Okay. What should we our response to this gross violation?


The IN and USN interact at a number of levels. There is the need to find out who authorized this and whether it was the CNO or someone above him. Then there's the claim the USN shut of IFF, and if that's true is a big deal. What would have happened had the IAF or IN fired a missile or torpedo? Imagine if sensors on a IN P-8I identify a threat? It means the Quad is nothing but nonsense and a waste of time and resources. The Pentagon folks need to be told that such actions jeopardize billions in arms sales and this doesn't make sense. It seems there are people in the US government wanting to cause permanent damage to India-US relations.


switch on IFF was arun prakash's comment telling the US to show that they are friends. he probably meant it sarcastically.

In any case, we are merely the water carriers, as far as the QUAD is concerned.

They treat us like the proverbial 12th man

He is required to bring drinks, helmets, gloves, bat or anything which is needed by the batsmen while he is batting. He can be used to convey any messages to the players on the field from the coaching staff or captain
Last edited by chetak on 12 Apr 2021 12:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby kit » 12 Apr 2021 12:05

Of particular interest would be the access to indian naval facilities and staying near sensitive installation s citing "freedom of passage" what if this was near 100 miles off a strategic submarine base ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 12 Apr 2021 12:14

AshishA wrote:Okay. What should we our response to this gross violation?


Have some IN subs turn off IFF & tail the next bunch of USN surface vessels patrolling reasonably close to our EEZ.

Conceal some fast attack craft amongst an island chain and send them out to say a quick, unexpected hello when USN vessels navigate the waters around Lakshadweep, Palk Straits or A&N.

A little hide-and-seek will help keep our dear friends on their toes. We always want our guests to feel comfortable, but not emboldened enough to act with presumption so far from home.

And oh yes, take delivery of (and operationalize) the S400s without delay. After this incident, we would be idiots to let COMCASA or any other alphabet soup get in the way of that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pratyush » 12 Apr 2021 12:45

How does it matter who is responsible for ordering this ship sailing through the Indian territorial waters. What matters to me is the wordings of the Indian laws and the their compliance with the UNCLOS.

Opinion: US Navy intrusion in Indian EEZ is beyond comprehension but objectionable

“Government of India’s stated position on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) is that the convention does not authorise other states to carry out in the Exclusive Economic Zone and on the continental shelf, military exercises or maneuvers, in particular, those involving the use of weapons or explosives, without the consent of the coastal state”.


This makes it clear that Indian laws are consistent with the UNCLOS. having said that the larger issue is the comprehension of English language in United States. The conclusion this brings about is that we don't have a common understanding what the UNCLOS means.

The relevant articles of the UNCLOS are as mentioned below.

UNCLOS SITE Unofficial

SECTION 2. TRANSIT PASSAGE

Article 37

Scope of this section

This section applies to straits which are used for international navigation between one part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone and another part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone.

Article 38

Right of transit passage

1. In straits referred to in article 37, all ships and aircraft enjoy the right of transit passage, which shall not be impeded; except that, if the strait is formed by an island of a State bordering the strait and its mainland, transit passage shall not apply if there exists seaward of the island a route through the high seas or through an exclusive economic zone of similar convenience with respect to navigational and hydrographical characteristics.

2. Transit passage means the exercise in accordance with this Part of the freedom of navigation and overflight solely for the purpose of continuous and expeditious transit of the strait between one part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone and another part of the high seas or an exclusive economic zone. However, the requirement of continuous and expeditious transit does not preclude passage through the strait for the purpose of entering, leaving or returning from a State bordering the strait, subject to the conditions of entry to that State.

3. Any activity which is not an exercise of the right of transit passage through a strait remains subject to the other applicable provisions of this Convention.


The relevant section's from the POV of this issue s Article 38-2(B), 38-3 & 58-3

Article 58-3

In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.


Is intimating India that a foreign warships passing through the Indian EEZ inconsistent with this convention, that is the relevant question.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby S_Madhukar » 12 Apr 2021 12:55

A few missile tests should be conducted in the area with an hour’s notice especially on Twitter :mrgreen: when the next navigation happens; also tail them and let them know we are just the friendly traffic cops hastening them to DG

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby nvishal » 12 Apr 2021 13:01

The last time the Americans did gunboat diplomacy with their 7th fleet, Indira Gandhi had to shelve off her plans of invading west Pakistan(1971). Diego Garcia was primarily aimed at India.

Once the Americans got to know that Indira was about to send a team to do a suicide raid on DG, the indigenous local population of that island was kicked off and they now live in foreign islands as refugees.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rishi_Tri » 12 Apr 2021 14:06

And, yes, the US Navy ship visit happened days after US Def Sec's visit. So, we should safely assume this had clearance at the highest levels.

I am more interested in how India reacts. A diplomatic statement does not cut it.

It should have been DRDO Missile Test accidentally falling close to the Warship or one of the Tu 142s (retired alas) flying over Alaska. I would say.. go ahead and get 4-5 of the Tu 160s .. just for scenarios like these.

You sail close to us, we fly close to you.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 12 Apr 2021 21:35

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-o ... 2021-04-08

So this the Quad-pro-quo from the US -- we give you vaccine supplies (once we no longer need them) and you be good little boys and behave like a vassal state like we expect you to be. We reserve the right to violate you naval zones and you need to STFU -- we will sing you some bollywood songs to placate you, and that should suffice. For real important naval security discussions about China and Taiwan, we will be dealing directly with the Australian Navy and their 3 gun boats.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lomat-says

There is no question that there is a US-China military compact that was signed in alaska -- Australia is a vassal state of China at this point, and only they were involved in military discussions involving China, not Japan or India. Time to flush all the QUAD and all alphabet soup cr@p signed during Pompeo's time down the toilet and get those S400s ASAP.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hnair » 12 Apr 2021 21:51

nvishal wrote:The last time the Americans did gunboat diplomacy with their 7th fleet, Indira Gandhi had to shelve off her plans of invading west Pakistan(1971). Diego Garcia was primarily aimed at India.


Stop promoting the coercive power of american military on Indian leaders in this board, because it was never there. IG did no such thing as you claim, because she went ahead with the invasion and occupation of BD, which was much closer to the 7th fleet's range. The 7th fleet sailing to save the arse of a failed military dictator remains a joke to all sides and even Nixon/kissinger knew at that time. Please dont make up stuff in order to make some strange point.

In general, the idea of a non-aligned block led and heavily influenced by India will start to make sense for power play, when India reaches 15T or more. not right now.

And the idea of taking on the pre-eminent military power in the world, based on rickety russian tech like their bombers from soviet era is not even funny.

Suraj, to your point on the need for national power ascendancy and China's painful phase etc, the fact remains that China also can do jack about FONOPS to this day. I think FONOPS is clever and cheap policy. It gets over-promoted by the US as a big deal, but is in reality, a cheap military form of "you cant do much...neh nene neh neeeh!" thumbing of nose like how tourists make faces at the Queens guard etc. The guard is forced to ignore those, despite having a service rifle in hand. So the general idea seem to be to troll in a childish way than make any military impact. The greater a country's H&D quotient, the greater its troll value. So if say India says "We dont give a crap, if you are going to gallivant through the EEZ with erect guns etc. Knock yourself out. But just dont let your joses fish or extract minerals from our EEZ" this approach will become ineffective at least with India. The angry Karens will get angrier but will be forced to go back to Hyomen Rites et al, instead of putting servicemen's life in danger for all sides. China, with its high H&D quotient will not be able to do that, due to its leadership structure's domestic compulsions.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 13 Apr 2021 07:23

nvishal wrote:The last time the Americans did gunboat diplomacy with their 7th fleet, Indira Gandhi had to shelve off her plans of invading west Pakistan(1971). Diego Garcia was primarily aimed at India.

Once the Americans got to know that Indira was about to send a team to do a suicide raid on DG, the indigenous local population of that island was kicked off and they now live in foreign islands as refugees.


Well, don't believe in rumors here is from horse's mouth where good general himself has been on record to say that he had taken that contingency into account had Americans moved forward with 7 fleet brain farts at that time per his exact words : "I will go down in history as a general who defeated both America and Pakistan together". Do listen the interview from 2:44 onwards : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvDjHcTeTe8

From 6:59 onwards plan was to invade west Pakistan , capture some territory and go back after that it was changed at the last moment :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyFVOZ91dGA

=================================================================

Please evaluate this event in the background of things that have happened in the recent past before this event :

U.S. Warns Kabul It May Withdraw All Forces By May 1 If Peace Talks Do Not Progress : March 4, 2021
Operation Sankalp: Indian Navy undertakes Passage Exercise with Bahrain Navy in Persian Gulf : March 17,2021
US-China Secret Summit in Alasska : March 19, 2021
Afghan government, Taliban agree to accelerate peace talks after Moscow summit : March 19,2021
IMF Approves 39 month 6 billion USD Package to Porkistan: March 24,2021
IN Quad Plus France Naval Exercise In The Bay Of Bengal (including the same flotilla that transgressed into indian EEZ) : April 6,2021
Taliban attack on covert US base in Afghanistan complicates Biden's withdrawal decision : April 7,2021

US does FOPNOP around lakshwadeep island and announces it : April 9,2021


==================================================================

Now with this background you can see the picture begins to emerge :

Massa did what our diplomats have been saying (do look up recent interview on nitin gokhale's YT channel for recent interview's on Quad) that US herself is not sincere/serious about Quad and they have made it public where there choices are. They are going to accept Chinese and porkis (like it has always been) and screw Russians and anyone opposite in that camp.(i.e Quad is finished or put in cold storage till this admin is in power).

Which means Massa will make a move towards Iran, China Taiwan and we must prepare to get back PoK.

Now here is how I wish GOI should respond :

Mine the area around island territories on both the shores (East A&N, lakshwadeep on West), have passage exercises around Diego Garcia may be few sorties of Brahmos slung MKI's.

Here is a cool response I found found on an old incident similar to this on teeter :

Harpreet
@CestMoiz

"Many years ago, an Indian flotilla out in the Gulf led by Rear Admiral Madanjit Singh (later Vice Admiral and FOC-in-C, Western Naval Command) was asked by a US naval ship to identify itself "This is Indian Navy " and to its query “How long have you been here?” replied

"Since before Christ!”

Touche!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 13 Apr 2021 19:28

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1381796825292754948

Adani Ports removed from S&P index due to links with Myanmar military


So all of this American behavior in recent days is due to India not singing the Myanmar hyooman rites chant along with these neo-imperial american tools.

This is the kaladan project that Adani is invested in that is central to the NE and these neo-imperial mofos are apparently India's "partners" in the Indian ocean, cheered on by colonial coolies like Pratap Bhanu Mehta.

At least it is clear that the QUAD is dead on arrival for the second time in a row along with COMCASA, BECA, and whatnot.

Meanwhile, americans who hae history in the US State Dept. and have Indian-sounding names are pretending this is all Chinese propaganda :roll:

https://twitter.com/tanvi_madan/status/ ... 0988440585

've also seen an uptick in Chinese trolls, bots and propaganda accounts in my replies — 'tis quite interesting to see when they swarm in. They like to highlight US-India differences; another topic of interest seems to be India's COVID numbers/performance


US sanctions Adani Ports -- a major Indian business that does port works for the Indian govt., and violates India's EEZ in rapid order, and these are just "differences" being highlighted apparently.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hnair » 14 Apr 2021 08:01

The action against Adani proves beyond doubt that the current US regime is targeting PM Modi personally by bolstering his political opponents. The FONOPS can atleast be given an element of doubt but this is very focused action. And this is a regime that deals daily with PLA firms for manufacturing and Paki military fronts for Afghan logistics. Mukesh Ambani needs to be very wary as he is one of the two that Indian opposition frequently targets.

The angry Karen dominated SD certainly has a clear mandate about India: regime change by 2024 for perceived interference in their political affairs. And the route is hyoman rites

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 14 Apr 2021 09:55

Perhaps we'll see regime change in the US by Jan. 2025!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vijayk » 14 Apr 2021 17:35

Mort Walker wrote:Perhaps we'll see regime change in the US by Jan. 2025!


Hope congress and senate flip so these scums will be busy wetting their pants for 2024

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 14 Apr 2021 18:39

hnair wrote:The action against Adani proves beyond doubt that the current US regime is targeting PM Modi personally by bolstering his political opponents. The FONOPS can atleast be given an element of doubt but this is very focused action. And this is a regime that deals daily with PLA firms for manufacturing and Paki military fronts for Afghan logistics. Mukesh Ambani needs to be very wary as he is one of the two that Indian opposition frequently targets.

The angry Karen dominated SD certainly has a clear mandate about India: regime change by 2024 for perceived interference in their political affairs. And the route is hyoman rites



beijing biden is beholden to big business as well.

They need beijing biden to take point on breaching and steam rolling their access into the Indian market on their terms with no regard to Indian law or even sentiment

Its a classic America First move + threat of low cast vaccines & IP Rights issues with developing countries like India in process damaging the QUAD initiative at behest of Pharma Lobby specially Pfizer for being denied access to Indian Market without local trials.
via@NavroopSingh_

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 14 Apr 2021 20:01

the hans are hoping for a schism between Inda and the beijing biden administration


Image

sreerudra
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sreerudra » 14 Apr 2021 21:38

vijayk wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Perhaps we'll see regime change in the US by Jan. 2025!


Hope congress and senate flip so these scums will be busy wetting their pants for 2024


Not posstible. It was onetime like Comet sighting the outsider took the stage. Deep State cannot take another chance - so can go to any extent including COVID.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Jay » 14 Apr 2021 22:05

sreerudra wrote:
vijayk wrote:
Deep State cannot take another chance


Can you tell me who is "Deep State"?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 14 Apr 2021 22:07

chetak: the hans are hoping for a schism between Inda and the beijing biden administration


I think there is a schism already, and that has been done at the behest of China. Biden & co. are making sure that the CCP know that there is a schism with India, so all seems like how things are falling out -- the US-China duopoly concept from Kissinger's times is alive and intact. Xiden and his democrat party is not about to break US's deep ties with China and the actions of GOTUS (sanctioning Adani and FONOPS publicity) speak louder.

IMO, It is not on India to prove that there is no schism with the US when the reality is that there is a schism, and it is being created by the US, and this has accelerated after the US-China meeting in Alaska.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 14 Apr 2021 22:12

Jay wrote:
sreerudra wrote:


Can you tell me who is "Deep State"?


the ever implacable foggy bottom is the deeply anchored roots of the larger tree

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sreerudra » 14 Apr 2021 22:40

chetak wrote:
Jay wrote:
Can you tell me who is "Deep State"?


the ever implacable foggy bottom is the deeply anchored roots of the larger tree


Yeah, that's right! Every four years Americans get fooled that they are actually voting Dems/GoP. In fact, they are voting to one candidate the candidate chosen by the ultra-rich. This is the Deep state it operates Drug cartels across the world, prostitution rings, and has unlimited power to topple governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_stat ... ted_States

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby NRao » 15 Apr 2021 08:24

I rarely post here.

I think this is a very important vid:



Admins, do the needful.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2021 08:59

.
Last edited by Philip on 15 Apr 2021 09:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2021 09:06

Water carriers for the USN.Bharat Karnad put it more pithily about Indian foreign policy under Jai S,the man who was involved in the N-deal where we gave away our N- testing rights,etc.,later amby to the US and now FM! BK said under Jai S,we are "America's peon"!

PS: Poodle Britain is also fleeing Afg. for the umpteenth time without its knickers in fright after the US decision to flee Afg. and avoid another Saigon ! I said decades ago that it would end up like this,another ignominious retreat from Kabul,leaving " friends" like India in the lurch as Pak and the ISI are given a free hand to take over. In fact a veteran US general who was heavily involved in Afg. said on CNN that he would never trust the Taliban to keep its word. So much for our " strategic partner", who has little regard for our strategic interests.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 15 Apr 2021 11:37

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... f-7274021/

Admiral Phillip Davidson, commander of US Navy’s Indo-Pacific Command, who was also part of the discussion, said, “Our relationship with India remains one of Indo-Pacific Command’s highest priority.” He called India a “vital partner in strengthening the security and stability” in the region. “A strong US-India strategic partnership is indispensable for peace, prosperity and security in the Indo-Pacific,” he said.

Speaking about China, Davidson said the Communist Part of China promotes a “drastically different system” for governance, trade and human rights, and “China’s approach to the region includes efforts to coerce, corrupt and co-opt governments, businesses, organisation and ultimately the people of the Indo-Pacific”. “An emboldened Communist Party of China seeks to exploit the current global pandemic with increased military aggression throughout the Indo-Pacific,” he said.


:lol: This Admiral turdsurfer accuses china of "coercing, corrupting, and coopting" govts., exactly a couple of days after his govt. did exactly that to India recently, and many other countries in the past, in the guise of the "World's policeman".

This "A strong US-India strategic partnership is indispensable for peace, prosperity and security in the Indo-Pacific" must be the new "A strong and stable pakistan is in India's interest".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 15 Apr 2021 12:19

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/1 ... tan-481556

Schisms between Biden's inner circle & the military, with the Pentagon caught in the middle.

Has some interesting pointers for this thread (in light of recent coordinated attacks by Biden sarkar against India, such as the John Paul Jones violation and sanctions against Adani):


Asked during a visit to NATO on Wednesday whether the military supported the decision to withdraw, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said the decision-making process was “inclusive.”

“Their voices were heard and their concerns taken into consideration as the president made his decision,” Austin said. “But now the decision has been made, I call upon them to lead their forces ... through this transition.”

But behind the scenes, it is Secretary of State Antony Blinken and national security adviser Jake Sullivan who are truly “running the Pentagon,” according to two former officials familiar with the discussions.

“The Pentagon is not making these decisions,” one of the people said.




US military did not want an Afghan withdrawal.

Lloyd Austin (SECDEF) seems essentially a Manmohan Singh/Rabri Devi type figurehead, placed on top of the Pentagon by Biden's inner circle (SOS Anthony Blinken, NSA Jake Sullivan, WHCOS Ron Klain) to make sure they can remote-control it from outside & override the US military's objections at will.

Interesting that the 1st visit to India was by the figurehead Sec. Austin alone... a clear downgrade from the 2+2 diplomatic summits during the Trump era.

The real power (across all departments) in Biden sarkar lies with Blinken, Sullivan, Klain, Avril Haines etc. These are all venomously anti-India players by the look of it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 15 Apr 2021 19:22

srikandan wrote:https://indianexpress.com/article/india/regular-chinese-navy-presence-in-indian-ocean-region-over-past-decade-navy-chief-7274021/

Admiral Phillip Davidson, commander of US Navy’s Indo-Pacific Command, who was also part of the discussion, said, “Our relationship with India remains one of Indo-Pacific Command’s highest priority.” He called India a “vital partner in strengthening the security and stability” in the region. “A strong US-India strategic partnership is indispensable for peace, prosperity and security in the Indo-Pacific,” he said.

Speaking about China, Davidson said the Communist Part of China promotes a “drastically different system” for governance, trade and human rights, and “China’s approach to the region includes efforts to coerce, corrupt and co-opt governments, businesses, organisation and ultimately the people of the Indo-Pacific”. “An emboldened Communist Party of China seeks to exploit the current global pandemic with increased military aggression throughout the Indo-Pacific,” he said.


:lol: This Admiral turdsurfer accuses china of "coercing, corrupting, and coopting" govts., exactly a couple of days after his govt. did exactly that to India recently, and many other countries in the past, in the guise of the "World's policeman".

This "A strong US-India strategic partnership is indispensable for peace, prosperity and security in the Indo-Pacific" must be the new "A strong and stable pakistan is in India's interest".


This is the USN command and the Pentagon talking. As Rudradev said above there is a schism within Xiden admin Naxals and military establishment. The later *may* want a better relationship with India, but the former does not. This is the reason why it is so important to find out who ordered the John Paul Jones near Lakshwadeep.

Also Blinken has not interacted with Jaishanker as part of 2+2. The SoS is in Afghanistan, but deliberately avoided India. Not only is QUAD effectively dead, but the 2+2 dialog setup by the Obama administration is also dead.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 15 Apr 2021 19:43

mortWalker: This is the USN command and the Pentagon talking. As Rudradev said above there is a schism within Xiden admin Naxals and military establishment. The later *may* want a better relationship with India, but the former does not. This is the reason why it is so important to find out who ordered the John Paul Jones near Lakshwadeep.


The civilian chain of command overrides the military, as we know. We also know it is someone in Xiden's team that gave these orders, so clearly it is some one high up the chain, who could override the DoD, which implies that this decision was made by some direct subordinate of Xiden -- the top tier of this US govt. has changed strategy to be pro-china and is all for shutting down India ties. US miltary wanting to improve ties or not seems irrelevant from India's POV.

So why is it useful to know which subordinate of Xiden gave the order? I do not understand.


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