Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

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Kakkaji
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2021 06:21

Responding to bitter criticisms from many BRF-ites on this thread, the GoI has issued a full explanation of what it had done and is doing. :)

Story behind paywall, so can't post in full:

Covid-19: Govt’s 4-pronged strategy for vaccine development

The government, under the directions of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has adopted a four-pronged strategy on a state-private sector partnership model for speeding up vaccine development and production, government sources told ET.

The four pillars of this strategy are:

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2021 06:29

More on the same lines:

To ramp up vaccine output, government pumps in funds

NEW DELHI: In a move to boost India's vaccine capacity, the Centre is extending financial assistance by way of grants to Bharat Biotech and Indian Immunologicals in Hyderabad, Haffekine Biopharma in Mumbai and Bharat Immunologicals in Bulandshahr while setting aside another Rs 200 crore for Covaxin alone.

The Bharat Biotech and Haffekine facilities are to receive grants of Rs 65 crore each. A separate support of Rs 200 crore is intended to increase Covaxin production from 1 crore doses a month to around 6 crore a month by August and 10 crore a month by September, which will mark a big step up. The Haffekine facility is expected to produce around 1.5 crore shots by August and 2 crore a month in six months.

Sources said an inter-ministerial group for capacity augmentation has engaged indigenous manufacturers for rapid scale up of vaccine production, tying up cooperation with private and public sector entities.


The decision to accelerate cooperation with the private sector in view of the unprecedented coronavirus crisis was taken at a meeting chaired by PM Narendra Modi in May last year where he is understood to have asked officials to consider private firms as partners. The government should be an investor and incubator for vaccine development and remove red tape, the PM had said.

ICMR provided Rs 10 crore assistance to Serum Institute of India for conducting trials of Covishield vaccine and also extended Rs 10 crore to SII for Covovax (Novovax) trials. Similarly, it gave Rs 30 crore to Bharat Biotech for Covaxin trials and financial assistance was also given to Zydus Cadilla for pre-clinical animal trials.

The department of biotechnology and PSU Biotechnology Industry Research Assistance Council are supporting nearly 15 vaccine candidates with Rs 100 crore.

Under a Rs 900 crore programme, five vaccine candidates in advanced clinical development and 19 trial sites are receiving assistance. Three immunogenicity assay labs and three other facilities are also benefiting under this mission.

The Centre's assistance to the private sector has also come by way of institutional support in setting up 11 clinical trial sites with a cohort of 50,000-1,00,000 volunteers each. Government labs are involved in generating animal models for SARS-CoV-2 and the immunoassay labs are critical to vaccine development.

Government labs have shared sequencing data related to coronavirus with private vaccine developers, saving time and expense. The Central Drugs Standard Organisation has worked to expedite vaccine development by enabling stockpiling even when a candidate is at the clinical trial stage, accelerated and rolling reviews, close cooperation with international regulators and other measures.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Apr 2021 06:31

India may witness 2,320 deaths per day due to Covid by first week of June: Lancet Report

India may witness 1,750 deaths per day due to Covid-19, surging to around 2,320 by the first week of June, according to a report of the Lancet Covid-19 Commission by India Task Force members.

The experts have strongly recommended a temporary ban on gatherings of groups larger than 10 for the next two months.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srikandan » 17 Apr 2021 06:39

Isn't this the same Lancet "medical" publication that had a fake paper on HydroxyChloroQuine last year and a report on Kashmir or some other political issue in India a few months before that?

Why is being considered as a legitimate source of anything concerning COVID, when they published absolute garbage the last year around the same time? The paper they published had cooked up numbers, and they did not retract it AFAIK.

Lancet seems to have no editorial oversight and has a political agenda -- it seems more than likely that they are just making up numbers to score political points against Indian govt., as this is not the first time they have done so.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Mort Walker » 17 Apr 2021 07:28

CFR in India is around 1%. In infections are 200K+/day, then it doesn’t take a genius or ignoble publication like the Lancet to determine deaths around 2K+/day after a lag period of 2 weeks. The caveat is that over 200 million will have been vaccinated, so CFR could drop <0.4%.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby arshyam » 17 Apr 2021 07:58

Kakkaji wrote:Responding to bitter criticisms from many BRF-ites on this thread, the GoI has issued a full explanation of what it had done and is doing. :)

Story behind paywall, so can't post in full:

Covid-19: Govt’s 4-pronged strategy for vaccine development

The government, under the directions of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has adopted a four-pronged strategy on a state-private sector partnership model for speeding up vaccine development and production, government sources told ET.

The four pillars of this strategy are:

Odd - I can see the full article, and I am no subscriber. Perhaps it's based on geo-location?

Anyway, it's a good article for plenty of details, and enough to counter the "the Modi govt didn't do anything, hai hai! the mudi should rezine" crowd.

The government, under the directions of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has adopted a four-pronged strategy on a state-private sector partnership model for speeding up vaccine development and production, government sources told ET.

The four pillars of this strategy are: ensuring financial support to vaccine makers; providing institutional help to vaccine makers for virus isolation, testing, pre-clinical and clinical trials; accelerating the pathway to vaccine approval; providing ‘out-of-the-box’ solutions to ramp up production.

Image

Government sources said in May 2020, Modi had told senior government officials not to differentiate between public and private sector and treat vaccine making companies as partners. The dispensation was to act as investor, incubator, evaluator and buyer of the vaccines as it went through the stages. The aim was to remove all obstacles and make vaccines available to all Indians in the shortest time.

Based on this, the Indian Council of Medical Research provided Rs 10 crore assistance to Serum Institute of India for trials of Covishield, and another Rs 10 crore for Covavax (Novavax) vaccine trials. ICMR also gave Rs 30 crore to Bharat Biotech India Limited for Covaxin trials. Zydus Cadilla was also extended financial assistance for its vaccine.

The Biotechnology Industry Research Assistance Council (BIRAC), a Department of Biotechnology PSU, is supporting nearly 15 vaccine candidates at a cost of Rs 100 cr, disclosed government sources.

“Mission Covid Suraksha”, which was announced as part of Atmanirbhar Bharat 3.0 package, has allocated Rs 900 crore for one year. Five vaccine candidates in advanced clinical development stage are being supported under this mission. Further, officials said, 19 clinical trial sites across the country, three immunogenicity assay labs and three animal challenge facilities are being supported by the government.

Besides this, official sources said, the government has provided institutional support to strengthen end-to-end vaccine development ecosystem. Eleven GCLP-compliant clinical trial sites have been established for quick trials. Each site has access to a cohort of about 50,000 to 1 Lakh volunteers. 34 hospital sites are also facilitating vaccine trials. Four autonomous institutes of DBT are involved in generating animal models for SARS-CoV-2.

As a result, government officials said, India has vaccinated more people daily than most other countries in the world. Though there are reports of shortage of vaccines in some states, they added that the Centre is taking steps to get foreign vaccines approved by other countries and helping the Indian companies ramp up production.

Approval of new vaccines was also expedited by steps like enabling stockpiling of vaccines while it’s under clinical trial, adaptive clinical trial design, emergency use approval, faster review and approval process, rolling review data, frequent expert committee meetings as well as collaboration with international regulators.

As for ‘out-of-the-box solutions’ to ramp up vaccine production, officials said a system of providing advance payment against supplies was approved as an incentive to augment production capacity. For this purpose, an inter-ministerial group was created to oversee and facilitate increase in capacity of domestic vaccine manufacturing. This group has been instrumental in upscaling domestic manufacturing capacities by optimal utilization of existing capacities, by tying up with other private and public sector entities.

This how Indian Immunologicals, Hyderabad; Haffekine Biopharmaceuticals, Mumbai; and Bharat Immunologicals and Biologicals, Bulandshahr were roped in, added officials. With funds of nearly Rs 200 crore, government plans to ramp up manufacture of Covaxin 10 times more from 10 million doses per month in the coming months.

To fast track the entry of foreign made Covid19 vaccines into India, government recently cleared a special regulatory dispensation to provide EUA to Covid19 vaccines approved for emergency use by credible foreign regulators.

Source: ET

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Suraj » 17 Apr 2021 08:09

I'm pleased to see that two of the things I suggested constitute half the pillars of the new plan. Given the situation these were the right steps to take.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Sumeet » 17 Apr 2021 08:22

Suraj wrote:I'm pleased to see that two of the things I suggested constitute half the pillars of the new plan. Given the situation these were the right steps to take.



Congrats Suraj. Did you tag anyone in the Govt or any MoS or prominent BJP member ?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Suraj » 17 Apr 2021 08:32

I tagged MoHFW, PMO and Dr.Harsh Vardhan. The associated tweet thread was retweeted by R Jagannathan, Arvind Virmani and a few others.

https://twitter.com/surajbrf/status/138 ... 86881?s=21

Three million people vaccinated on Friday. 120 million overall.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Sonugn » 17 Apr 2021 08:51

Are there any reliable models showing when the peak will be & the numbers we that we can expect?

Just saw that we might hit 3L by april 26th & then might peak and trend continue till end of May.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Apr 2021 09:09

https://www.news18.com/news/india/kumbh-mela-might-culminate-early-amid-covid-19-surge-3648488.html

Several devotees including saints from different Akhadas have tested Covid positive in Haridwar. Lakh of devotees participated in the last two ‘Shahi Snans’ violating Covid protocols by not wearing masks or maintaining social distancing.


:shock: :shock: I had totally forgotten that this year was the great Kumbha - Jupiter in Aquarius! Can't believe they went ahead with it during COVID-19. Fallout could be terrible. What do gurulog have to say about this? Can't imagine any social distancing/mask wearing happening in Kumbha crowds..

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srikandan » 17 Apr 2021 09:34

Getting too excited about large crowds in the open is looking at the wrong cause for the spread -- not that it does not spread in the open, but the rate of spread leans towards indoor crowds without sufficient ventilation.

https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/13 ... 3028016133

Nope. There are no confirmed superspreading events or large clusters that are outdoors only. We saw no surge in cases after BLM protests & they were nationwide. Measures taken to restrict outdoor activities are disproportionate compared with the risk they pose. Thread w/links.


This was in a great El Pais article a year ago, after spain had vicious a covid breakout with high fatalities. Avoid indoor areas like the plague and wear a good mask outside, if you are not yet vaccinated, and even if you are, just to make others less stressed out.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... e-air.html
Last edited by srikandan on 17 Apr 2021 09:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Suraj » 17 Apr 2021 09:37

The Kumbh Mela is in Uttarakhand. The state has a population of 10 million. India has ~24% of the population aged over 45, who constitute the the highest risk group for death - at least 10x more than the younger people. While there are certainly many anecdotal cases of deaths among young, the statistics bear out in India too - Indian data shows 96% of deaths happening in >40 age group.

Assuming the same demographic breakdown for Uttarakhand, the state is already far ahead of national average in terms of number of people in the high risk group (the only eligible group currently) who have gotten at least one dose - they have had 1.3 million first doses so far, i.e. >50% of their high risk group. The national average right now is only ~22%.

We already know that many people with one dose get Covid, but that symptoms will be manageable. That is what will likely happen in UT. The other variable is these people going back where they came from and spreading it there. CDC information to date indicates that those who have received the vaccine can still get Covid, but their ability to transmit it is extremely small. This is critical - the ability to transmit rapidly is the hallmark of this virus, and the ability of even partially vaccinated people to dramatically reduce that makes a difference.

None of this is an apology for the Kumbh. I'm simply looking at the mechanics dispassionately.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Raja » 17 Apr 2021 12:19

Gujarat HC advises the state govt to be transparent about the real situation regarding cases and deaths in the state.

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/ahmedab ... 112391.cms

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Raja » 17 Apr 2021 12:32

srikandan wrote:Getting too excited about large crowds in the open is looking at the wrong cause for the spread -- not that it does not spread in the open, but the rate of spread leans towards indoor crowds without sufficient ventilation.


Have you been to Kumbh? Do you really think that everyone just walks away to their home after taking a dip? Trust me there are plenty of opportunities of crowding in inside location.

This is a huge risk the govt has taken by allowing it.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Paul » 17 Apr 2021 13:23

At least we do not have such nincompoops leading our country.....I shudder to think what would have happened had we let Pfizer vaccines in the country.

I went to KL and Penang in 2019. I was impressed at the level of development in their country, and then this level of nepotism happens at the top most levels. I am scratching my head at how to explain this.

https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/malaysia ... ce=twitter

Malaysia Fades in Covid Fight
Competing companies, tardy procurement, low signup rates plague country

John Berthelsen

Malaysia, which early on in the fight against the Covid-19 coronavirus was one of Asia’s leaders, has begun to slip back, with at least some vaccine procurement seemingly diffused among competing parties thought to be aligned with top politicians, ostensibly illegal shots for royalty, low signup rates due to fears of blood clots, and sharply rising new cases.

Malaysia isn’t alone. Cases are surging across much of Southeast Asia, for instance in Brunei, Cambodia, Thailand, and other countries although all are far behind Indonesia and Philippines. With nearly more than 9,000 cases in the past week, Malaysia’s weekly rise has hit 35 percent during that period, according to statistics compiled by the website Worldometer.

The Ministry of Health has been seeking to identify reasons behind low take-up rates and considering steps to boost vaccine registration, plagued by the fact that vaccine doses have been trickling in slowly. Malaysia has vaccinated only 3.2 percent of its population. The government has only recently concluded phase 1 of the vaccination program, involving medical and nonmedical front-liners.

Rising dissatisfaction with vaccine procurement has bled into the larger political scene, with Prime Minister Muhyiddin Yassin protected from ouster only by a coronavirus emergency declared by the king, which is expected to last into August amid widespread belief that it was called only to protect him and his shaky and uncertain majority in the 222-member Dewan Rakyat, or parliamentary lower house.

Parti Islam se-Malaysia and the United Malays National Organization, two restive members of his alliance, for weeks have been dropping strong public hints about bailing out – especially since Muhyiddin has been seeking to lure “frogs,” as disloyal UMNO members are called, to jump to his Parti Pribumi Bersatu Malaysia to strengthen its pallid numbers.

The king and his vaccines

One of the biggest concerns being spoken of in hushed tones within top political circles is that too many interests are freelancing vaccine purchases. Although there has been no confirmation, sources in Kuala Lumpur say Hamzah Zainuddin, the home affairs minister, and Health Minister Adham Baba are among them.

Then there is Malaysia’s current king, Sultan Abdullah Sultan Ahmad, who ascended the throne last year in the country’s rotating kingship of nine sultans and who has become a political force in his own right, not least by keeping Muhyiddin in office through the emergency decree declared on January 12.

Two well-placed sources say Sultan Abdullah went to the United Arab Emirates in January, with the Foreign Minister Hishamuddin Hussein and the Attorney General Idris Harun in tow, apparently to discuss with UAE Prince Mohamed bin Nayan, the king’s classmate in the elite UK institution Sandhurst, the vast amounts of money that sloshed out of 1Malaysia Development Bhd and across the middle east before the Malaysian sovereign investment collapsed in a welter of scandal.

The king and presumably his entourage are said by the sources to have been vaccinated as a favor with the Sinopharm vaccine in the UAE, one of the world’s leading countries in combating the virus along with other oil-rich gulf states. The vaccine has not been approved in Malaysia and is therefore illegal.

Sultan Abdullah, the sources say, was given an additional 2,000 doses for his family and friends to take home to Malaysia. With all of the Sultan’s family inoculated by two physicians – his personal physician Zulkarnain Ishmail, who practices at Gleneagles Hospital in Kuala Lumpur and Hanafiah Harounrashid, the vice chancellor of University Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) – the excess vaccines were used for business partners and friends.
The remainder was offered to Muhyiddin and other ministers – all of whom declined, as they were awaiting the Pfizer vaccine in a few weeks.

“The problem started when he instructed that the Ministry of Health issue the yellow booklets to show these people had been vaccinated and possibly allowing them to travel to countries which would accept the booklet,” the source said “Anyway, they would have peace of mind that they were less likely to get Covid than the average kampong dweller. The Ministry had issued about 200-plus booklets to the King’s family and friends and others when the Director General of Health, Noor Hisham, stopped it upon being warned that it was criminal as the Chinese vaccine had not been approved by the government.”

Noorhisham “even instructed a raid on the two doctor’s offices. Only one – Zulakrnain – had the vaccines in his office, I am reliably told. The Ministry of Health wanted to charge him in court but the King and PM stepped in and put a stop to that.”

The two doctors are continuing to administer the remainder of the vaccines in the king’s palace to friends and friends of friends of the king although it now is almost all gone.

“This is a scandal which is being talked about in social circles and at highest levels of government, but no one dares to go public because of the sedition laws and the emergency called by the king.”

Some sources have blamed much of the other problems in combating the coronavirus on the Director General of Health, Noor Hisham, who initially was regarded as being instrumental in keeping cases down but who now is widely disliked in government circles for being dictatorial although his public image remains positive.

‘In a totally dysfunctional cabinet made up of incompetent ministers, he dictates what should be done and what cannot be done,” a source said, adding that his critics say he held off approving the Pfizer vaccine until well after the European Union, the United States and the United Kingdom had recognized it. Now, with a long line already having obtained supplies including Israel, Bhutan, and Singapore, which has vaccinated at least 28.5 percent of its citizens, and with many more competing for it, Malaysia is described by a source as “at the back of the queue.”

The problem is that “rich countries have cornered the Covid-19 market,” said Khairy Jamaluddin, the coordinating minister for Covid-19 immunization, in a prepared statement. “Some rich countries have bought enough vaccines for their citizens three to five times over. Many pharmaceutical companies give preference to rich countries for obvious reasons. That is also why Malaysia has had to balance our vaccine portfolio to include Pfizer, AstraZeneca but also those from non-Western countries like Sinovac.”

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Raja » 17 Apr 2021 16:32

srikandan wrote:Isn't this the same Lancet "medical" publication that had a fake paper on HydroxyChloroQuine last year and a report on Kashmir or some other political issue in India a few months before that?


It is also the same journal where Covaxin and Sputnik have published their results. Perhaps, consider an article on its own merit?

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srai » 17 Apr 2021 20:07

Bhutan went from no jabs to being a world leader in COVID-19 vaccine rollout in three weeks. Here's how they did it


When the tiny Himalayan nation of Bhutan was gifted 150,000 doses of the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine in January, they decided to consult the stars before rolling them out.

Buddhist monks informed the government that the most auspicious time to begin the inoculation drive was late March, and a woman born in the Year of the Monkey was an ideal candidate.

Thirty-year-old Ninda Dema was the chosen one — given her first dose at the perfect astrological time of 9:30am on March 27.

She received the shot from a nurse who was also born in the Year of the Monkey, at a vaccination centre in the capital Thimphu, amid chanting of Buddhist prayers.

...

In just 16 days, Bhutan has vaccinated 93 per cent of its adult population. That means 63 per cent of its 800,000 citizens have received their first injection.

...

But this landlocked nation tucked between China and India faced many other challenges to reach people in remote mountain villages and low-lying valleys.

Even before the pandemic was declared, the small nation had been warning of doctor shortages.

The World Health Organization had recommended the doctor-population ratio be 1:1000, meaning 1,000 people should have a doctor. Going by this, Bhutan needed about 700 doctors. Instead, they had just 337.

In order to roll out the vaccines, the country was reliant on volunteers, known as 'desuups', who trekked through difficult terrain to deliver vaccine equipment. They have also encouraged locals to keep up wearing a mask and social distancing.

...

Vaccine centres were kept open on weekends to allow as many people as possible to get their jab, while the elderly and those with mobility issues got home visits.

...

"We achieved universal immunisations in the 1990s and we have always been very successful in vaccinations," Bhutan's Health Minister Dasho Dechen Wangmo told the UK Telegraph.

"So the current immunisation is riding on the existing programs, there were already a lot of systems in place and it made it very easy to introduce a new vaccine through a lot of advocacy and micro-level planning."

...

What other countries might learn from Bhutan's success

According to the Atlantic, there were five key factors to Bhutan's strategy: engaged leadership, preparedness, acting speedily, drawing on existing strengths, and providing enough support to those who isolate.
...

That included implementing the gold standard for public health measures: detect, test, trace, isolate, and treat cases. The country also worked to increase the capacity of healthcare workers, hospitals, laboratories, and ensure delivery of essential health services.

...

The Government has been credited with maintaining trust with the public, who have come out in droves to be vaccinated.

But having a smaller population size and a sense of civic duty has also been key.

...

"So one of the lessons that we have learnt from Bhutan is the positive outcomes of listening to instructions and following guidance when it comes to successful vaccine rollout and … the fast, decisive action with strong leadership, but we're in very, very, very different countries."

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 17 Apr 2021 20:48

#COVID19 - Outbreak In India @outbreak_india

#LargestVaccineDrive

Day 91: 30,04,544 India #vaccination update on 17-Apr at 7 AM

Total Doses: 11,99,37,641

Dose1:10,44,08,484 22,96,008
Dose2: 1,55,29,157 7,08,536


Explore more at https://outbreakindia.com/vaccination


Image

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 17 Apr 2021 20:51

#COVID19 - Outbreak In India @outbreak_india
Day 443: Flag of India #COVID19 update

Active Cases: 16,79,740 +1,09,997

Recovery Rate: 87.23%
Fatality Rate: 1.21%
Confirmed: 1,45,26,609 +2,34,692
Recovered: 1,26,71,220U +1,23,354
Deaths: 1,75,649 +1,341

Samples Tested: 26,49,72,022 +14,95,397

https://outbreakindia.com/india-dashboard

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vimal » 17 Apr 2021 22:39

Meanwhile China is being hailed as the growth engine of the world by the US media.
Last edited by vimal on 18 Apr 2021 03:51, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby arshyam » 18 Apr 2021 00:18

self-deleted since the whine I was responding to was also deleted.
Last edited by arshyam on 18 Apr 2021 06:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby RKumar » 18 Apr 2021 00:39

Everyone is quick to blame the GoI and Shri Modi ji

- Who was interested in taking the Jab before Modi ji took it
- 90% including me, was against taking the Jab as it is not really safe
- 30% including me, are still against taking the Jab for the reason given above
- Now the situation in India is getting worse, so it is all Modi ji fault for not ordering enough vaccination which would have gone waste, forcing the people to stay in houses and imposing strict lock downs :rotfl:

I don't know when people will start accepting the outcome of their decisions and actions and stop blaming the world.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby saip » 18 Apr 2021 00:45

My BiL got his first shot around 5th April. Few days later he was diagnosed from COVID19. I am certain he caught infection prior to the shot and obviously there was lag before the symptoms showed up. Five days back he was admitted into a hospital. He was tried the usual treatment including Remidisivir, Plasma and Prednisone etc. Nothing worked. He passed away today. Just 59 and diabetic but under control. Obviously immunity does not kick in or alleviate the disease after the first shot. Hope everyone realizes that.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 18 Apr 2021 00:52

Deleted garbage

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby anmol » 18 Apr 2021 01:02

CDC: About 5,800 'breakthrough infections' reported in fully vaccinated people
Many questions remain about who might be at risk for the so-called breakthrough infections.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby saip » 18 Apr 2021 01:03

UK is mostly dependent on AZ vaccine. We have to check its rates for AZ effectiveness. It ordered 100 mil az and only 40 mil Pfizer and 17 mil Moderna.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Raja » 18 Apr 2021 01:08

vijayk wrote:Talking to a friend working in chemical industry ...

He says no vaccine other than Pfizer and Moderna is working. Not covaxin, AZ, or even Sputnik.


Quite frankly, your friend has no clue what he is talking about.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Raja » 18 Apr 2021 01:11

saip wrote:My BiL got his first shot around 5th April. Few days later he was diagnosed from COVID19. I am certain he caught infection prior to the shot and obviously there was lag before the symptoms showed up. Five days back he was admitted into a hospital. He was tried the usual treatment including Remidisivir, Plasma and Prednisone etc. Nothing worked. He passed away today. Just 59 and diabetic but under control. Obviously immunity does not kick in or alleviate the disease after the first shot. Hope everyone realizes that.


Sad to hear about your friend. But two points to keep in mind, 1) For AZ, reasonable immunity kicks in around 2-3 weeks after the first dose. 2) There will always be exceptions and vaccines will not work on everyone. It is a numbers game, if it is 75% effective there are still 25% remaining and that can be a lot of people.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 18 Apr 2021 01:37

Raja wrote:
vijayk wrote:Talking to a friend working in chemical industry ...

He says no vaccine other than Pfizer and Moderna is working. Not covaxin, AZ, or even Sputnik.


Quite frankly, your friend has no clue what he is talking about.


I dismissed him like that only ... But the number of infections I am hearing in India with AZ vaccinated people is worrying me.

That's why I don't want to dismiss these theories

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vera_k » 18 Apr 2021 01:39

Well, number of infections and lockdowns are rising even in the USA with Pfizer/Moderna widely prevalent. Don't think much can be inferred just yet without good data.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby srikandan » 18 Apr 2021 01:42

Why is the number of infections a useful metric? especially, when we all know that you can get infected even after vaccinations, but the probability of death drops drastically.

Why is any metric other than deaths/ICU admissions even useful? panic-ing over the number of people getting the flu, instead of number of people who die from the flu seems pretty silly. The number of deaths per lakh people seems like the only metric worth fretting and panicing over.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nits » 18 Apr 2021 02:22

Just sharing the feel what we are seeing / hearing around - in family whatsapp group, cousins is Modi is just not seen when whole country is in fear and unsure how things r spinning out of control and mind you they all are Modi fans

Either Media / opposition narrative is working or people just not seeing enough steps on ground in terms of vaccines, oxygen etc etc and Q'ing Central Gov as they are in fear

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sudeepj » 18 Apr 2021 02:42

Its human nature to blame the person who appears largest in their consciousness at the time, even for acts of God. Its natural for them to blame Modi, though not completely rational. In this case, there were plenty of missteps by the govt.

Sacrifice the rook, save the queen. Samajhdaar ko ishara kafi.
Last edited by sudeepj on 18 Apr 2021 02:43, edited 1 time in total.

vijayk
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby vijayk » 18 Apr 2021 02:43

nits wrote:Just sharing the feel what we are seeing / hearing around - in family whatsapp group, cousins is Modi is just not seen when whole country is in fear and unsure how things r spinning out of control and mind you they all are Modi fans

Either Media / opposition narrative is working or people just not seeing enough steps on ground in terms of vaccines, oxygen etc etc and Q'ing Central Gov as they are in fear


exactly ... this is what I feel too..

It does not matter how much money we save. If the propaganda works and even if 500,000 people die, it will be a disaster.

We need to control this whatever is the way. They have to be seen fighting with all the effort.

My only aim is to find how much effective these vaccines are
Last edited by vijayk on 18 Apr 2021 02:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby nam » 18 Apr 2021 02:55

vijayk wrote:I dismissed him like that only ... But the number of infections I am hearing in India with AZ vaccinated people is worrying me.

That's why I don't want to dismiss these theories


Corona is a flu virus. Kids and older people are generally given fly jab for seasonal flu. Does it prevent people from getting flu? No. it doesn't. However it makes sure, if people do get it, it is in milder form. Higher the spread of flu virus, higher the probability of a vaccinated people getting the infection.

Corona being a flu virus works exactly the same way. People, despite being vaccinating may get infected, because their is a community spread.

However the vaccination will prevent majority of the people from landing up in hospital. The objective is to save lives, not prevent infection with mild symptoms.

So anyone who says only Pfizer and Moderna works is talking nonsense. All vaccines with public data works. Pfizer may look good, because it is been administer in place with reduced community spread. Someone cannot get infected, if there is no infection around him. Doesn't matter if he has taken Pfizer or Covaxin.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby Suraj » 18 Apr 2021 02:56

Folks I’ve deleted some patently useless whining and outright WA forward / rumormongering .

Here’s the thing with such noise in the middle of a crisis - they’re the same as a virus . They’re useless parasitical waste of energy and they get transmitted from person to person.

BRF won’t host such garbage . We are all anxious and want to see better days but this site isn’t going to willfully play host to viral nonsense . It will be deleted, responses will be deleted, those persisting will get a timeout...

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby sudeepj » 18 Apr 2021 03:23

nam wrote:
vijayk wrote:I dismissed him like that only ... But the number of infections I am hearing in India with AZ vaccinated people is worrying me.

That's why I don't want to dismiss these theories


Corona is a flu virus. Kids and older people are generally given fly jab for seasonal flu. Does it prevent people from getting flu? No. it doesn't. However it makes sure, if people do get it, it is in milder form. Higher the spread of flu virus, higher the probability of a vaccinated people getting the infection.

Corona being a flu virus works exactly the same way. People, despite being vaccinating may get infected, because their is a community spread.

However the vaccination will prevent majority of the people from landing up in hospital. The objective is to save lives, not prevent infection with mild symptoms.

So anyone who says only Pfizer and Moderna works is talking nonsense. All vaccines with public data works. Pfizer may look good, because it is been administer in place with reduced community spread. Someone cannot get infected, if there is no infection around him. Doesn't matter if he has taken Pfizer or Covaxin.


Corona is not a flu virus! The generic term flu virus refers to a virus family, that infects birds, pigs, other livestock, and humans and exchanges genetic material in hosts. It mutates really fast, which is why flu vaccines are on average only 30-40% effective. Corona on the other hand mutates, but much slower than the flu family of viruses and we have very good vaccines. So far, most studies that are saying this vaccine is ineffective against that variant are **in vitro** (or test tube) studies. These studies are intriguing but not the final word.. The human body is a miracle of nature and extremely resilient to viruses and bacteria. In all likelihood, most vaccines will impart some protection, even if you get an infection, it will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. Dont be misled by reports of breakthrough cases, a small percentage of really large numbers is still a large number! There will be hundreds, even thousands of cases of vaccines not preventing disease, but there is a very high chance that they will save your life.

Till you can get a vaccine:
1. Take a VitD + Zinc pill every day. Or just stand in the sun for 20 minutes with exposed skin every day!
2. Avoid indoor spaces, especially ones without good ventilation!
3. Wear a mask. Even if the mask does not protect you 100%, it ensures that the innoculum (the amount of virus you are infected with) remains low. This can be life and death! A mild infection vs something that will put you in the ICU!
4. Practice traditional health practices such as jal neti with copper ionized water (simply storing the water in a copper or brass container for 12+ hours will add a lot of copper ions to it), or povidone iodine 0.5% solution, especially after you visit crowded places. This will clear out bulk of the virus from the nasal passages where it first enters the body.

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby hnair » 18 Apr 2021 05:03

Paul wrote:
I went to KL and Penang in 2019. I was impressed at the level of development in their country, and then this level of nepotism happens at the top most levels. I am scratching my head at how to explain this.

https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/malaysia ... ce=twitter



OT Southeast Asian and even far eastern (So Ko) have high level of nepotism and is driven by autocratic politicized clans who mostly work as syndicates to keep out new challengers. Singapore et al are pretty undemocratic because of this and it is tough for a new party to come up or even express dissent. And yet makes into top of lists of “coolest democracies and paradises” run by the Scandinavian scammers because of one thing: abject tailoring of policy making and cultural subservience to west. Retail corruption is firmly kept under check, but competency under crisis usually drops, which is then hidden behind heavy PR

For example when covid came up, SoKo was broadcasting loud PR. Did not hear much afterwards. Kerala govt follows similar model, thanks to its “media advisor” dork

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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

Postby arshyam » 18 Apr 2021 06:54

Guys, please don't spread FUD under the guise of anecdotal evidence. All of us know someone or the other who succumbed to this shitty Chinese export, so we all need to combat this together. Hand-waving and making statements like vaccines are not effective without any data to back it up reflects poorly on us as a group and the forum too. There are quite a few lurkers who follow updates here, so we need to keep the signal-to-noise ratio high.

As for vaccine effectiveness, that too our "desi" vaccines, please refer to this:

Nashik Study Suggests That Those Who Test Positive Even After The Jab Get Only Mild Symptoms; Almost All Recover At Home - Swarajya quoting a ToI article

Experts have been urging people to take the Covid-19 vaccine shots to keep themselves safe from the coronavirus infection.

But some recent cases in India have raised concerns among the people regarding vaccine efficacy.

The distrust began to appear as reports revealed that many people including some senior citizens—for example, Karnataka Chief Minister B S Yediyurappa—tested positive for Covid-19 even after taking at least one shot of the vaccine.

But there is something which people should understand and cannot be overlooked.

Covid-19 Positive After Vaccination

According to a recent analysis of such cases in Nashik, the infection in inoculated people is mild and most of them recover at home, reported The Times of India.

The study took into consideration 150 people who tested positive after taking at least one shot.

While just 25 of those patients were needed to be hospitalised, only 5 of them showed serious symptoms.

The data also revealed that their family members also didn't get the infection and the patients themselves recovered within 15 days after home isolation and medication.

Among 150 people, 70 per cent were aged 60 plus and 25 per cent of them belonged to the 45 plus age group.

The report also noted that 5 per cent of those infected people were healthcare workers.

Not only in India but in other countries, where similar infection cases were reported, observers have noticed either mild or asymptomatic Covid-19 cases.

The science behind the vaccine’s efficacy is simple and healthcare experts have been explaining it for a long time

An expert from the World Health Organization (WHO) Dr Kate O’Brien explained that immune response kicks in within about two weeks of the first dose.

She clarified that the second dose of the vaccine is responsible for boosting the immune response.

Some experts have also urged people to take safety precautions, such as wearing masks, even after taking both the sots as it takes time for the body to build up full immunity.


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