India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hnair » 15 Apr 2021 19:46

We might never know who ordered the stupidity and whether this gross violation of painstakingly build India-US policy of engagement will have consequences for whomever did it. But if this was shoved down the throat of the men in uniform, then we might hear of this after some exchange programs, because they would be more honest than the fork-tongued types of DC

Here is what could be the only plausible way this mess can be sorted out: The last incoming US Administration of Trump had to accommodate the campaign time artifacts like Bannon etc in the inner circle of the POTUS decision making. Such characters do not have much role in any sober or even semi-sober administrations. Slowly they were shed off and the media celebrated it in a clueless fashion as some kind of affirmation of Trump being a bad leader etc. The Biden administration is choke full of unviable human artifacts picked up from all sorts of segments his campaign made devil's deals in desperation against Trump's more static voter base.

Maybe, the US govt will quietly shed these appendixes over next few months, before it bursts and infects more areas of its global policy. From India to France to Afghanistan to their very own border with Mexico, these artifacts of the campaign are proving to be a huge liability to claims of regaining global leadership tag.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 15 Apr 2021 19:50

^^^We don’t know for sure. It is speculation. For all we know, as hnair said, it may be the work of an angry Karen. It is important to know from an interaction point of view. Dealing with the world’s largest economy will remain important.

The Trump administration had damadji Jared Kushner whispering in Trump’s ear. Damadji Kushner family and Netenyahu are family friends. That kept away much international stupidity.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby NRao » 15 Apr 2021 20:15

Rudradev wrote:Schisms between Biden's inner circle & the military, with the Pentagon caught in the middle.


Very predictable. Biden had opposed Obama's surge. And, given Gen Mark Milley's opposition (he declined to endorse Trump's withdrawal plans in Nov, 2020), this was bound to happen.

Lloyd Austin (SECDEF) seems essentially a Manmohan Singh/Rabri Devi type figurehead, placed on top of the Pentagon by Biden's inner circle (SOS Anthony Blinken, NSA Jake Sullivan, WHCOS Ron Klain) to make sure they can remote-control it from outside & override the US military's objections at will.


Again, very predictable. Recall the first option was Michele Flournoy (of sink-all-Chinese-ships-in-the-SCS fame). When the "first-female-SecDef" PR campaign failed (due to her being very close to the MIC), their next best option was "first-black-SecDef". Except there was no pool of good black SecDefs to select from. So, they pulled a 0 from a 0.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 15 Apr 2021 20:27

The Trump administration had damadji Jared Kushner whispering in Trump’s ear. Damadji Kushner family and Netenyahu are family friends. That kept away much international stupidity.


Along with US-India ties, Israel-US and US-Saudi ties have also degraded to zero, and yet UAE has been offered military hardware by the US yesterday(some unseen motive beyond arms sales there), and US war with Russia has escalated, and palestine is once more "an issue". UAE, Saudi and Israeli ties changed dramatically under Trump/Kushner (because the US stopped meddling like it did when John Kerrey and co were in charge) and have reversed.

All of this seems to be in line with the rhetoric from the incoming administration about valuing "democracy & human rights" as the main FP plank, which seems to be in line with their actions so far, be it Israel (palestinian hyuman rites), Russia( evil putin dictator), India(evil bad mudi not rejine), or Saudi Arabia(killed dissident). Anthony Blinken is the guy in charge and unless he is being influenced by donors or subordinates (not likely), this just seems to be the official new direction of US policy.

Going to be 4 years of this.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby rags » 15 Apr 2021 21:09

srikandan wrote:
The Trump administration had damadji Jared Kushner whispering in Trump’s ear. Damadji Kushner family and Netenyahu are family friends. That kept away much international stupidity.


Along with US-India ties, Israel-US and US-Saudi ties have also degraded to zero, and yet UAE has been offered military hardware by the US yesterday(some unseen motive beyond arms sales there), and US war with Russia has escalated, and palestine is once more "an issue". UAE, Saudi and Israeli ties changed dramatically under Trump/Kushner (because the US stopped meddling like it did when John Kerrey and co were in charge) and have reversed.

All of this seems to be in line with the rhetoric from the incoming administration about valuing "democracy & human rights" as the main FP plank, which seems to be in line with their actions so far, be it Israel (palestinian hyuman rites), Russia( evil putin dictator), India(evil bad mudi not rejine), or Saudi Arabia(killed dissident). Anthony Blinken is the guy in charge and unless he is being influenced by donors or subordinates (not likely), this just seems to be the official new direction of US policy.

Going to be 4 years of this.


Yes, QUAD is crippled, China resumed Island building operations etc etc. All of these events now bring to sharp focus, the mandate/ hurriedness of the last 2+2. Everybody saw this coming, which means that, in the US, there are now 2 factions with opposite methods/ processes. The only winner in all of this is CCP.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2021 23:45

It appears that the Biden era is going to be one of international confrontation instead of international peace. The latest sanctions against Russia will amount to little in effect but only harden the Kremlin line against the US, already furious at NATO expansionism on Russia's borders such as the UKR.
The US cretinous policy towards Russia is only going to see Russia further cement its strategic relationship with the PRC which will have serious consequences for India should the shooting starts between the US and Russia in any of the hotspots around the globe, particularly in the UKR.
The US' sudden announcement of its total retreat in indecent haste from Afg. is akin to the British fleeing India in '47 knowing that "the game was up"
thanks to Netaji and the INA in the main. The Afghan abandonment because of the resurgence of the Taliban, supported to the hilt by the ISI amidst fears of a major offensive against the Kabul regime and its firang protectors, and another chaotic rout from Afg. Saigon style. Remaining in Afg. would ensure that Yanqui soldiers become increasingly juicy targets for the ranks of the ungodly. Hence the surprise pull-out to live and fight elsewhere another day!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ce-hacking

Biden hits Russia with new sanctions in response to election meddling
Ten diplomats expelled as part of fresh package of sanctions announced by US president as Russia says retaliation ‘inevitable’


Xcpts:
I have determined that specified harmful foreign activities of the Government of the Russian Federation … constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States,” Biden wrote in a letter to Congress regarding the sanctions.

Russian officials reacted angrily to the new sanctions, with some saying it would scuttle any chance of a summit between Biden and Vladimir Putin. The Russian foreign ministry summoned the US ambassador for a “difficult talk” and called the sanctions “aggressive behaviour”, adding that Russian counter-sanctions were “inevitable”.

There are some limits to the severity of the sanctions. The ban on buying rouble bonds only applies to their primary issue, meaning they would still remain available to trade on secondary markets.

Nonetheless, the sanctions will add tension to an already strained relationship between Russia and the US. Since last month, Moscow has been engaged in the largest troop buildup on its border with Ukraine since the 2014 annexation of Crimea, provoking fears of an invasion.

Biden called Putin on Tuesday to urge him to de-escalate tensions with Ukraine and proposed a summit in a third country. The Kremlin gave a frosty account of the phone call, and did not say whether Putin had agreed to the meeting. Earlier on Thursday, the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, said that the summit could not be held in the coming weeks.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 16 Apr 2021 08:09

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... e-7274371/

The Xiden admin has reverted to "India-pakistan nukular flashpoint that concerns the world" nonsense again. A proper reaming by the Chinese/Russian will do these racist "freedom and democracy" tools a favor.

The fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria has a direct implication for U.S. forces, while tensions between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan remain a concern for the world. The iterate of violence between Israel and Iran, the activity of foreign powers in Libya and conflicts in other areas, including Africa and the Middle East, have the potential to escalate or spread,” Haines said.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 16 Apr 2021 11:50

^^^That’s not going to happen. It’s business as usual and no reason to get upset. Lots of stimulus money and corporate handouts in progress or on the way. Financial markets are going gangbusters while spending is going on.

India-US relations must be based on trade and nothing else. I suspect GoI knows this and will dispense with the usual nonsense pleasantries. What is worrying is how much the US may be interfering in Indian state elections in an attempt to destabilize the NDA government.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 16 Apr 2021 13:27

Mort Walker wrote:^^^That’s not going to happen. It’s business as usual and no reason to get upset. Lots of stimulus money and corporate handouts in progress or on the way. Financial markets are going gangbusters while spending is going on.

India-US relations must be based on trade and nothing else. I suspect GoI knows this and will dispense with the usual nonsense pleasantries. What is worrying is how much the US may be interfering in Indian state elections in an attempt to destabilize the NDA government.


the US deep state is an old hand at regime changes and destabilizations when things don't go their way. They would much prefer a tame and pliable pappuized govt in India as opposed to Modi on stereoids. This is also exactly what the hans and the pakis want too.

the immediate need is a pliant India to do their bidding on afpak or at least not oppose the US on its currently chosen path.

The minute the US exits, there will be a surge from the hans using the pakis to provide the unwashed muscle to try and overwhelm the afghans with an assassination or two or three artfully executed via the ISI.

The hans will lock down the trade routes to central asia and prevent India from spreading her influence in that direction.

the russkis are the unknowns at this point.

They speak softly to India but also carry a very big stick in the form of spares and upgrades for India's soviet era weapons, much of which is still very much in play.

new entrants to the game include that clown erdogan and the iranians who are back to their old games using the shia population in India to leverage trade and investment only to renege every time on done deals when the payouts for India's efforts become inevitable.

we have yet to learn how to kick such scum in the testimonials instead of constantly bleating "vasudhaiva kutumbakam" and crawling back into the cave to lick our freshly inflicted wounds once again

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 16 Apr 2021 13:41

Mort Walker wrote:^^^That’s not going to happen. It’s business as usual and no reason to get upset. Lots of stimulus money and corporate handouts in progress or on the way. Financial markets are going gangbusters while spending is going on.

India-US relations must be based on trade and nothing else. I suspect GoI knows this and will dispense with the usual nonsense pleasantries. What is worrying is how much the US may be interfering in Indian state elections in an attempt to destabilize the NDA government.


The US comes with a take it or leave it package of rice bag purveyors, unfair and exclusive access to ameriki big tech and big data firms, the US MIC pushing for needless weapons sales and above all, a pliant, obedient and submissive client state constantly singing the praises of beijing biden and mylapore maami driving their commie agendas

The Hindu and the baghwa have no place at all in their scheme of things fronted by amazon, twitter, facebook, walmart and the bible thumpers

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Avtar Singh » 16 Apr 2021 15:45

This is not a hurried withdrawal from afpak region by the USA.
Withdrawal could have happened anytime during Trump era but it was not allowed.

I think India should consider this a HANDOVER to the CCP pak-chins.
Hence the recent Iran deal ties in with my alleged handover?!

I am sure they are ironing out the details as I type.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Avtar Singh » 16 Apr 2021 15:58

The best thing India could do and weapon India has... Is to take the Saudi/Israeli playbook for Syria......
Let that chincoms have it all for now.... pak/afghan/iran...

India should secure its own borders and unleash the Orcs...
India may well have to face them at some point but make sure
pak-chins/iran have a good taste of it in the mean time.

In case people dont understand what I am talking about, the Orcs carry a black flag.
India should keep its borders secure meanwhile making its problems everyone elses problems.

The best way to deal with these types is with their own tactics...... none of this we are better than thee nonsense.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Haresh » 16 Apr 2021 16:34

America and India Need a Little Flexibility at Sea

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/15/us ... itime-law/

Biden’s Afghan Pullout Is a Victory for Pakistan. But at What Cost?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/worl ... sContainer


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 16 Apr 2021 18:45

Avtar Singh: I think India should consider this a HANDOVER to the CCP pak-chins.


Absolutely. Avril Haines report to the intelligence committee calling china a peer-competitior implies, China is an economic competitor and a military ally of the USA.

Also explains the belligerence against India in the Indian ocean and shutting down all security interactions with India. Asia has been " handed over to China" by US/EU, and now the rest of Asia along with China is supposed to work with these aholes to "write rules for the new century".

ndia should secure its own borders and unleash the Orcs...
India may well have to face them at some point but make sure
pak-chins/iran have a good taste of it in the mean time.


Right on..seems like what is going organically happen the way things are going.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 16 Apr 2021 19:16

"Maturing strategic relationship" my foot. This is the "foreign policy" article, so it is straight from the US establishment.

Despite their maturing strategic partnership, India and the United States diverge on several matters related to the UNCLOS maritime agreement. China, India, and the United States were all parties to UNCLOS negotiations. India and China ratified the treaty in 1995 and 1996, respectively. However, as is the case for China, several of India’s domestic laws and some of its practices do not comport with UNCLOS.

In contrast, the U.S. Senate has not ratified UNCLOS, but the U.S. government recognizes its provisions on maritime entitlements and the freedom of the seas as established international law, creating a paradoxical rift between the noncompliant signatories and the compliant abstainer.


So India was foolish to ratify the UNCLOS, because not ratifying it would have given India the flexibility to violate it, as the US does. as the FP article points out. Maybe the Indian establishment will learn lessons about not ratifying any and all "international treaties" signed from here onwards. It is also time to challenge the conflicting portions of UNCLOS when we have the capability to do so. Time to ignore the UNCLOS like China does. f**k the US and its too-clever-by-half behavior -- this is a new version of "buying new york for 60 guilders". "Nyah nyah, you ratified the treaty, so suck on this"...we can also violate treaties that are ratified, so WTF are the whites going to do if India takes that stance.

If raitfying UNCLOS makes India beholden to rules that do not apply to parties that pretended to go along just to get India to ratify it, then India should renege on any commitments made in the UNCLOS, and ratifying UNCLOS is does not mean adhering to it any more than not ratifying treaties . China's treatment of the UNCLOS needs to be adopted by India, and there should be no naval alliance with the US. India should do it with allies that respect Indian laws on the EEZ and keep away countries like the US.

“The U.S., very honestly, was [in the past] very much a source of concern, even a threat. Today, the U.S. is seen much more as a partner,” explained Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar in 2020. “What we are seeing in the Indian Ocean is the coming together of converging interests of different players who are comfortable with each other politically, who have a shared concern for the global commons.”


This statement by the chief was in the contest of pre-xiden and QUAD. It would be interesting to hear what the MEA has to say on this post FONOPS and post-QUAD.

s China’s presence in the Indian Ocean has expanded, so has its influence and activities in key countries across the region, including the island states of Sri Lanka and the Maldives.


Recent US behavior shows that Chinese in the Indian Ocean is not as much of a threat as we are lead to believe -- they can create their "String of pearls" that can be taken down by India with ease. No need to gang up against China at this point with these neo-imperial american aholes.

Letting china operate in the Indian Ocean and not co-operating with these western countries in moderating China's behavior works in India's favour -- if they want to go to war with China they should do so without India taking sides other than its own.
Last edited by srikandan on 16 Apr 2021 21:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 16 Apr 2021 19:59

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... a-7276513/

A leading Chinese diplomat said Friday that his country, the worlds largest carbon emitter, plans to send a “positive message” at a climate change meeting called by US President Joe Biden for next week.

But Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs Le Yucheng also signaled that China is unlikely to make any new proposal beyond its current commitments on climate change.

“For a big country with 14 billion people, these goals are not easily delivered,” he said in a wide-ranging interview with The Associated Press. “Some countries are asking China to do more on climate change I am afraid this is not very realistic.”


If we go by the recent past, this will be written in the Chinese owned western media as a great step forward by China. Would not be surprised if there are calls that India needs to do more since china has taken the lead. Expect the worst from media and you mostly get it right about them.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 17 Apr 2021 01:41

Mort Walker wrote: What is worrying is how much the US may be interfering in Indian state elections in an attempt to destabilize the NDA government.


I wouldn't worry about that. Internationally, the BJP may do a cr@p job of communicating their POV or cultivating influence. But if there is one thing they do par excellence it's communicating with, and winning the votes of the Indian people. From every corner of India. Like nobody else :)

Even other Indian political parties-- who know the land and its people intimately-- are utterly helpless to stop the rath. So Biden Sarkaar kya ukhaad legi?

I agree that they will try-- and it is very annoying to see them try, because we can see the sheer malice and hypocrisy of the Islamists, Leftists and others who motivate them. But even in the '80s and '90s, the only way foreign powers could knock down popular Prime Ministers of India was to actually assassinate them. Today, I doubt they'd have success taking down an even more popular PM by trying to influence the Indian electorate.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 17 Apr 2021 03:51

[quote="Rudradev"
Schisms between Biden's inner circle & the military, with the Pentagon caught in the middle.

Has some interesting pointers for this thread (in light of recent coordinated attacks by Biden sarkar against India, such as the John Paul Jones violation and sanctions against Adani):

The real power (across all departments) in Biden sarkar lies with Blinken, Sullivan, Klain, Avril Haines etc. These are all venomously anti-India players by the look of it.[/quote]

Rdevji agree with every word you wrote. But for us SDRE does it matter who gave the order ?

For us all we know is that future course correction of massa has happened for at least next four years. If we had clout like porkies/yahudis in DC we may be able to engineer change in the admin but we are way far off like you say hindus don't even know how to play the game .

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 17 Apr 2021 04:02

It matters because the existence of multiple power centres, the clash of interests between them, the players & agendas on each side, advantages/disadvantages of each side at any point in time are all useful information.


For example in the GW Bush administration the power lay with DOD (Rumsfeld) and Cheney; Colin Powell (SOS) was the Manmohan Singh and State Dept was the step-daughter while military (& defense contractors) were the favoured children.

How did that affect GWB's policies?

Now it is the opposite. How could that affect Biden sarkar's policies by contrast?

Note also that the balance of power between competing camps need not remain the same even for four years. That has consequences as well.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 17 Apr 2021 08:07

Yes, it is good to be aware of these details, while publicly castigating the US admin itself for (from our PoV) wrong policy direction. As and when possible, exploit that information to our advantage. That is how the US does with our country, and that is how every major power deals with another. The only arrow missing in our quiver is the ability to take coercive action that hurt US interests. We are not there yet, but are getting there. Only a matter of time.

In the meantime, we should not fall into the trap of "oh, it was Blinken who ordered the FONOPS <or whatever the latest nonsense is>, Xiden the maami are good people onlee". Apply collective responsibility to their govt (after all, our constitution makes that a principle, so it must be a universal value onlee*) while noting who did what internally.

* This is the reverse of what the US (and many Americans practice): this is the way we do something, so it must be true for the rest of the world too.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby krishna_krishna » 17 Apr 2021 08:09

Rudradev wrote:It matters because the existence of multiple power centres, the clash of interests between them, the players & agendas on each side, advantages/disadvantages of each side at any point in time are all useful information.

Note also that the balance of power between competing camps need not remain the same even for four years. That has consequences as well.


Agreed, It will help GOI and others who follow this dynamics closely to calibrate responses in advance. But with that knowledge, will we be able to do a course correction ahead of the time I don't think so ?, the current cabal is from O'bummer days thorough and thorough extremist you get. All the Evan jehadi's will be pumped with human rights ityadi. But problem with massa is its getting old in terms of population and financial powers.

The change they are trying to bring about in world is simply not possible with the resources at their disposal so what do you do , you do second best which youkayistan did after WWII when it was weakest you consolidate your position and try to minimize the damage to as little as possible so that you can fight back another day quickly. That is where Alaskan meeting was very important give and take, I believe once Taiwan is gone the chip manufacturing monopoly is under chinki control you will see a different music played by the chinks.

What you are left at that point is make concessions in SCS , in return to their support to screw russkies and eye ran. Massa will make move to take over the country another invasion supported by Israel. Question is what is the response that we (India) must plan to this emerging scenario ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby arshyam » 17 Apr 2021 11:00

I wouldn't put it past the current US admin from attempting a colour revolution here. Though it would be shooting themselves in the foot in the long run (since it would fail), the current crop of officials seems stupid enough to try. We should first be on the lookout for signs - an increase in publication of atrocity literature in US, especially by coconut Indian sounding authors would be a first step. Some bad criminal incident, most likely in UP, would be blown out of proportion with the intent to blame the current state government and tarnish Yogi's image. Why Yogi is obvious - he's the next in line after Modi retires. They'll try to put Modi on the backfoot first, but while they are at it, why not discredit potential successors as well? Of course, the biggest roadblocks for this to succeed are: Modi has seen this playbook in action before (forewarned is forearmed), and unlike a decade ago, the Congress is a dying tree and there is no other worthwhile opposition to take power if the BJP loses.

I hope we once and for all ditch this "natural partners" rhetoric and stay strictly transactional - it is the best course of action going forward. India-US relations will always be fraught with some mistrust, simply because we are a future challenge to their dominance. China too is, but India is a more credible challenger in the longer run. The Covid vaccine diplomacy was only the most recent example of this - while the US is hoarding and blocking supplies and behaving just like China, we are helping countries around the world despite our own challenges. And we are no cousins like the British for a relatively peaceful "transfer of power", so to speak, like when the US took over the UK's global role post-WW2. While such a transfer of power to China is not in either of our interests, the US may be hard pressed to resist it and would like to enlist our support. We should give it only to the extent it benefits us (hence transactional), while keeping them at arm's length so we can develop our capabilities independently. We have a long road to go in our tech development, so throwing our hat in the US ring would cripple us from investing and developing our tech, and make us that much weaker when China really tries to take over. The US will also be much weaker at that point, so it would hurt us really bad. Net net, might as well look out for our interests over the next 50-100 years and start working toward becoming a truly independent pole in the world. That's the only way we can assure our own security, and that is our core interest.

As for Iran, I don't know if the Americans have the appetite for an invasion. Iran is too big for that, and even the mighty US logistics infra won't support it without a long prior buildup. It would also be hard to justify such a build up to US allies in the Gulf - there is little imminent threat to them. Iran is not stupid like Saddam to openly invite a war, so even if massa is inclined to, it would not be able to stockpile supplies in the ground somewhere in W. Asia (they took what, 6 months before invading Iraq in GW1?). Whereas keeping Iran as an adversary suits them - MIC has another threat to arm against during this decade, while keeping the Saudis and its Sunni allies on its side. The Israeli rapprochement also points to a new cold war along Sunni-Shia lines, with US and Israel siding with the sunnis, and Russia and China taking the shiite side. They will, of course, try a colour revolution in Iran (it's a much lower cost option than an outright invasion), but Iran will be stoutly backed by Russia as well as China. Our position - not sure. Definitely not supportive of colour revolutions, but Iran also has done nothing to deserve our continued support. Mild disinterest, perhaps?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 17 Apr 2021 21:32

If there is any colour revolution in India, Rahul Gandhi, INC, and the rest of the criminal lowlives in the CPI(M)/TMC etc. will be part of it.

Rahul Gandhi was "interviewed" by Nicholas Burns, a retired US-State Dept. hand who is very high up the food chain, so it will all start with the bare-faced nehru dynasty traitors who back Rahul Gandhi in the INC.

These "secular" parties are saying so openly as their chamchas in the foreign media write article after article exhorting foreign intervention to take down the current government.

The other thing to watch out for is for self-serving, politically compromised people in the judiciary of chandrachooth ilk, who are willing to use their unelected positions, with no backing of the public mandate like the executive/legislature, to take down the executive and the legislature. The current govt. has them defanged to an extent by just not filling up positions, but that may not suffice.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 17 Apr 2021 22:07

krishna_krishna wrote:
Rudradev wrote:It matters because the existence of multiple power centres, the clash of interests between them, the players & agendas on each side, advantages/disadvantages of each side at any point in time are all useful information.

Note also that the balance of power between competing camps need not remain the same even for four years. That has consequences as well.


Agreed, It will help GOI and others who follow this dynamics closely to calibrate responses in advance. But with that knowledge, will we be able to do a course correction ahead of the time I don't think so ?, the current cabal is from O'bummer days thorough and thorough extremist you get. All the Evan jehadi's will be pumped with human rights ityadi. But problem with massa is its getting old in terms of population and financial powers.

The change they are trying to bring about in world is simply not possible with the resources at their disposal so what do you do , you do second best which youkayistan did after WWII when it was weakest you consolidate your position and try to minimize the damage to as little as possible so that you can fight back another day quickly. That is where Alaskan meeting was very important give and take, I believe once Taiwan is gone the chip manufacturing monopoly is under chinki control you will see a different music played by the chinks.

What you are left at that point is make concessions in SCS , in return to their support to screw russkies and eye ran. Massa will make move to take over the country another invasion supported by Israel. Question is what is the response that we (India) must plan to this emerging scenario ?


beijing biden and his commie gang are trying to take down Modi a notch or two.

Modi's approval ratings in India are still very high, even after so many months of the "farmer's protests"

So, like xi, the amerikis want modi to be taken down.

sadly for them, the QUAD and FONOP do not interest anyone outside this region and the BIF media is unable to push the narrative.

In the region, Modi's generous distribution of vaccines has quieted the neighbors including the bhikhari pakis desperately hoping for a handout.

best that we ignore it because every dog has its day and today, the ameriki canines are barking and behaving like typical typical chavanni sadak chaaps

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 17 Apr 2021 22:25

Modi has simply outplayed these arthitya / badal / amarinder guys.

He just waited it out and did not react to the many unsightly provocations. just like muhammed ali's rope a dope technique.

and now, unstoppable reports of MSP payments, directly reaching the farmer's accounts are surfacing daily.

Modi has cut the middlemen out and the state elections have all so far gone quite peacefully, especially in bengal

pappu is very very quiet and has been sidelined to playing with school girls. This is not the knight in shining armor that the BIF was trying to rejuvenate electorally and boost his chances of taking on Modi

hence the FONOP drama, the vaccine drama as well as the democracy drama by the US and their pals

may 2 may well be the day of reckoning

that will not make either the hans or the ameriki commies too happy

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 17 Apr 2021 23:29

https://twitter.com/DrSJaishankar/statu ... 4434385920
Deeply shocked by the shooting incident at FedEx facility in Indianapolis. Victims include persons of Indian American Sikh community. Our Consulate @IndiainChicago
is in touch with the Mayor and local authorities in Indianapolis as well as the community leaders.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 18 Apr 2021 07:41

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-7278337/

China seems pretty confident that US-India "strategic alliance" is broken under xiden. Nothing we did not know already.

There are many more cold winters to test china's pansy boys against the Indian forces.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Apr 2021 08:55

Looks like the US and China have worked out a climate change cooperation thanks to Secretary Lurch:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ate-crisis

The nations also agreed to discuss specific “concrete” emission reduction actions including energy storage, carbon capture and hydrogen, and agreed to take action to maximise financing for developing countries to switch to low-carbon energy sources.

The statement said both countries “look forward” to Biden’s upcoming virtual climate-summit and shared the summit’s goal of raising global climate ambition on “mitigation, adaptation, and support on the road to COP 26 in Glasgow”.


The virtual climate-summit is on April 22 and 23, and PM Modi is an invitee.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... n-climate/

India should not commit to anything as it is already making progress. The US has to make the most progress.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vimal » 18 Apr 2021 09:21

^^ Renege on every promise, do the worst possible and then make 2% progress for a big drama session. Xi created a virus to help Xiden win and Xiden has dutifully decided to hand over the reigns of world order into the eager hands of Xi. Fifty year long experiment is complete. Pax Sinica is a reality.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 18 Apr 2021 09:22

India should have someone who works for Dr. Jai Shankar in the conference call for this US/EU farce. Those oiseaules should first get to "net zero" or whatever is the new "kyoto protocol" these days before they ask others to commit to "climate change". Evil lowlives, the neo-imperial USA and their nazi brethren in the EU.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 18 Apr 2021 09:45

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-7278325/

Hindu sants and leaders are fully cognizant of the problems and trying to stop people from going to the Kumbh, but you would not know if you read the american media about how hindus are spreading the disease with their regressive religious practices.

And in other news, this flatulent gasbag with pretensions of "strategic thought" just replaces dharma with "science" and came up with some deep mental flatulence. This is the same "think tank" that has Pratap Bhanu Mehta, Anand Arni, sushant singh and their ilk "teach" the next generation for a piece of paper that is too coarse to wipe your butt with.

Science is just a methodology for understanding physical reality by repeated experimentation. Dharma is about protecting humans from the worst aspect of themselves, by establishing context-sensitive codes of conduct in humans. A soldier killing an enemy in battle is not the same as a doctor killing a person due to incompetence.

Only a deracinated mind would think science can replace dharma, or is a substitute for dharma.

https://twitter.com/acorn/status/1383341547911974914

Vijnanam eva hato hanti vijnano rakṣati rakṣitaḥ |
tasmād vijnano na hantavyo mā no vijnano hato'vadhīt

“Science, blighted, blights; and science, preserved, preserves; hence science should not be blighted, lest blighted science blight us.”

Vijnano rakshati rakshitah!
Science protects those who protect it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 18 Apr 2021 10:04

The scum in CNN mock India and celebrate Indian deaths while the CEO of the company producing vaccines for humanity says this.

https://twitter.com/adarpoonawalla/stat ... 3302683653
Respected @POTUS
, if we are to truly unite in beating this virus, on behalf of the vaccine industry outside the U.S., I humbly request you to lift the embargo of raw material exports out of the U.S. so that vaccine production can ramp up. Your administration has the details.
Folded hands



And these racist american scumbags are supposed to be India's "strategic allies".

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby KLNMurthy » 18 Apr 2021 11:15

vimal wrote:^^ Renege on every promise, do the worst possible and then make 2% progress for a big drama session. Xi created a virus to help Xiden win and Xiden has dutifully decided to hand over the reigns of world order into the eager hands of Xi. Fifty year long experiment is complete. Pax Sinica is a reality.

So much rona-dhona & dhoti-shivering.

India under Modi and Jai Shankar is not going to be a passive victim.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 18 Apr 2021 21:59

^^^^^^^

So much rona-dhona & dhoti-shivering.

India under Modi and Jai Shankar is not going to be a passive victim.


@KLNMurthy ji

you called it right.

Jaishankar is not the kind to keep quiet and that implies excellent and deeply committed relationships with allied ministries and the PMO.

he has poked all three: xi, beijingbiden and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the eye

In Strongest Defence of Indo-Pacific Concept, India Invokes History—And It’s the Right Move



In Strongest Defence of Indo-Pacific Concept, India Invokes History—And It’s the Right Move


India is also wary of a situation that will prevent it from maintaining an independent relationship with Russia.

APRIL 17, 2021,

External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar stoutly defended the Indo-Pacific concept at the Raisina Dialogue 2021. It was the strongest defence India has ever made, and blunt at that. It gains importance from the fact that this concept has not only been denounced by China, which is not surprising, but by Russia too. That Jaishankar was vigorous in his comments soon after Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov opposed the concept during his recent visit to India and alluded to it obliquely as “Asian NATO” shows that India is no longer willing to be defensive on the issue.

China could argue that the concept is intended to counter its maritime expansion. Though if China had not made illegal claims in the South China Sea, took control of and militarised reefs in these waters, even creating artificial islands by dredging to extend its military reach in this space, the Indo-Pacific concept in this defensive sense, driven by China’s illegal sovereignty claims and concerns about the massive expansion of its navy, would not have emerged.

Russia’s strong and repeated opposition to the concept, however, does not appear to have any compelling logic, as the concept is not directed at it strategically. Russia is not acting illegally in the western Pacific, it is not challenging Japan in the East China Sea, and nor is it threatening Taiwan. It is not frenetically expanding its navy, nor is its operations in the western Pacific or the Indian Ocean a cause of strategic concern. Russia has no version of China’s maritime silk route; it is not developing ports in key locations in the Indian Ocean to support its maritime expansion with military objectives.

If Russia’s intention is to lend diplomatic support to China and oppose the US plans to curb China’s ambitions, there is little reason, from India’s point of view, to implicitly criticise India’s support for the concept that derives its logic from China’s adversarial policies towards India. New Delhi, in fact, has sought to bring Russia into the fold of the Indo-Pacific through initiatives such as the Vladivostok-Chennai maritime corridor. Besides, India is doing regular maritime exercises with Russia in the Indian Ocean and has done them in the Pacific too. India regards Russia as a legitimate Pacific power. Russia also has close ties with countries like Vietnam which has been subject to Chinese bullying tactics in the South China Sea.

China is Crossing Limits of Diplomatic Conduct. But It Must Know Notion of Middle Kingdom is Obsolete

TRACING HISTORY

Minister Jaishankar drew a historical perspective to show that links between the Indian Ocean and the Pacific are not new, and that India has been central to them. He said what is obvious but not discussed as part of contemporary strategic view of this geographical space, that the Indo-Pacific concept has deep civilisational roots, considering the spread of Hinduism and Buddhism from India to Southeast Asia, all the way across the Malacca Straits to Vietnam as witnessed by the Champa kingdoms, and beyond to the east coast of China. The expansion of trade between India, the Arab world and Southeast Asia brought Islam to the region, with Gujarati Muslims reputedly playing an important role in this. Jaishankar mentioned the Indo-Arab contacts as part of the seamlessness of the India and the Pacific, pointing out also the historical connections in the reverse between Indonesia and the east coast of Africa. The political, economic and military link between the Indian Ocean and the Pacific continued under British-ruled India, a point that Jaishankar did not need to mention. Indian troops were used by the British in their opium wars with China.

India lost its own agency in developing ties with Southeast Asia during the colonial period, but sought to recover it after Independence, and even before, with the Asian Relations Conference and with Jawaharlal Nehru reaching out to China as well as Indonesia as a founding member of the non-aligned movement, and so on.

The Cold War, dividing the world into two camps, put a strategic distance between India and Southeast and East Asia, which, after its end, was sought to be bridged by our Look East policy under Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, evolving later into a more vigorous Act East policy. This policy began with an initial focus on Japan, followed by a steady expansion of India-ASEAN ties. India became a dialogue summit partner of ASEAN, and a participant in many ASEAN-led institutions, including the East Asia summit. The last actually accepts the Indo-Pacific concept at its core, in its own way. The fact that all ASEAN leaders attended the R-Day celebrations in 2018 as chief guests underlines the reality of the Indo-Pacific concept that Jaishankar has spoken of. Divorced from the security dimension, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) too accepts the seamless reality of the Indo-Pacific concept.

BALANCING INTERESTS

The Indo-Pacific concept as initially proposed by former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, with its emphasis on democracies—US, Australia, India and Japan—coming together to meet the Chinese challenge in the East and South China Seas reflects the concerns in the region arising from the threatening rise of China and its aggressive expansionism. The dichotomy at the heart of this concept is that the security threat comes from a country with which the four others have the closest economic links. How then to address security concerns without derailing vital economic ties? The economic cards in China’s hands are formidable, even as China’s military capacities have become a powerful deterrent. Hence, the diplomatic line that the Indo-Pacific concept is not directed at any country, that it is inclusive, that it seeks to promote a rules-based order, and so on. Prime Minister Narendra Modi went as far as stating at the Shangri La dialogue in Singapore in 2018 that the Indo-Pacific concept was not a strategy, implying that it was merely a rules of the road concept in essence that all could join.

It is true that in recent years official and academic discourse has spoken of India’s security perimeter extending from the Strait of Hormuz to the Strait of Malacca, which is effectively the Indian Ocean. India’s resources being limited and its naval capacity not yet sufficient to assume more responsibilities, the focus has been on developing and retaining the capacity to increasingly dominate the northern Indian Ocean. This effectively limited India’s maritime defensive concerns to the Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.

The rise of China, its maritime ambitions extending to the Indian Ocean, the development of the corridors to the sea through Pakistan and Myanmar, the Chinese naval base in Djibouti and a projected base in Pakistan, the presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean, Chinese anti-piracy operations being a learning exercise for long operations far away from home bases, and, of course, deteriorating bilateral relations with China, have inevitably led to India accepting the security linkages between the Indian and Pacific Oceans. That the western Pacific is the launching base for Chinese naval expansion in the Indian Ocean is an obvious reality.

A SENSE OF SELF-CONFIDENCE

Jaishankar’s explanation of the emergence of the modern Indo-Pacific concept as a product of globalisation, multipolarity and the willingness of the US to work with others should be seen in this context. He does not see it as revival of the Cold War, rather a firmer end to it. It is being put in this way as India does not wish to get trapped in the binaries of the erstwhile Cold War. The objective situation vis-a-vis China has no parallel with the US-Soviet Cold War paradigm. India is also wary of a situation that will prevent it from maintaining an independent relationship with Russia, which will become difficult if the old Cold War mentality developed, given that the US treats both China and Russia as adversaries. For India, it is right to project the Indo-Pacific concept as a return to history.

As a corollary, the minister has defended the Quad, listing its broad agenda that covers 10 subjects—climate change, humanitarian operations, emerging technologies, resilient infrastructure, countering disinformation, maritime security, regional and global issues etc.—as evidence of its constructive agenda. It was not intended as a message to anyone, according to him. He is right as from India’s point of view the Quad should have a broad agenda so that the benefits of cooperation go beyond maritime security. It should create frameworks that would assist India’s all-round economic and technological advance.

Most significantly, Jaishankar robustly countered the charge that a new Asian NATO was emerging, calling such criticism as “mind games”, a kind of “guilt tripping” in other words. He made the point forcefully that India was not a NATO member, and that India knows what it can do and what it can’t. He asserted that India does not have an alliance mentality unlike others, and that India was making a “national choice”. The sting in his remark that no country can exercise a veto on who we meet and what we discuss, on what we can do and what we can’t shows a remarkable change in our diplomatic discourse that has begun to reflect a new sense of self-confidence.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 19 Apr 2021 01:00

What do you know, the guy who interviewed Rahul Gandee last week, and took a request from RahulGandoo for a regime change in India, is now slated to be US ambassador to China.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/t ... -1.1205049

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 19 Apr 2021 04:32

https://www.csis.org/blogs/adapt-advanc ... ool-bidens

WTF is subnational diplomacy? Seems like the suggestion here US is to interfere with politics at the state level bypassing the center.

Indian states’ influence is not limited to economic activity. Some have the political clout to shape India’s foreign and federal policy. Occasional divides between the federal and state governments also results in misalignment between the state and national reform agenda. For instance, India’s flagship renewable energy target has seen slower than expected progress despite the central government’s lofty goals. India (and the United States) will require the cooperation and leadership of Indian states to tackle global challenges such as climate change. A coherent strategy to directly engage states in both countries is vital to help Washington and Delhi meet their respective climate change targets and trigger strategic ties.


insanity to allow these US govt. to directly interface with state govts. -- imagine mamata, Amarinder and Pinarayi having direct access to US centers of power. :shock: These india-hating turds in this demon-rat regime are planning to directly take their "net-zero" nonsense to states?! uh, what?

The Biden administration can best accomplish this by gradually and collectively bringing the reform-oriented Indian states, run by influential local leaders, into U.S. discussions on climate change. This will not only moderate the dissenting voices in India, but also elevate the interests and priorities of the United States to Indian federal decisionmakers.


https://www.csis.org/analysis/bidens-bi ... nity-india

https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws. ... ssions.png

They are well aware India's emissions are not even a blip compared to US and China, so what is this shyte about local engagement? Seems like the INC chamchas in the US are now writing shyte like this. Don't see why the GoI would entertain dangerous nonsense of this sort.
Last edited by srikandan on 19 Apr 2021 06:17, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 19 Apr 2021 05:09

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatin ... c5ff0021c4

This paper was written by some stink tank owned by "Romesh Wadhwani" who is one of the billionaire campaign donors for Joe Biden -- figures.

Romesh & Kathleen Wadhwani

Net worth: $3.6 billion
Source of wealth: Software
Contributions: $76,600


Wadhwani is on the board of trustees of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, both in Washington, D.C.[citation needed]

Wadhwani was awarded an honorary doctorate by the IIT Bombay in August 2018.[11]

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 19 Apr 2021 06:13

srikandan wrote:What do you know, the guy who interviewed Rahul Gandee last week, and took a request from RahulGandoo for a regime change in India, is now slated to be US ambassador to China.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/t ... -1.1205049


He’s an experienced deep state fellow in both Bush and Obama regimes. No surprise. No ambassador to India yet, most likely another gunga din Indian origin person like Dick Verma.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby srikandan » 19 Apr 2021 06:52

https://twitter.com/radhabharadwaj/stat ... 6556175365

When I approached film companies in India & U.S. for funding for @spacemomsmovie
, I got the same feedback: don't show Indian women as winners, don't show Indian men as supportive. The Indian film biz parroted the West's loathing 100%.


The same "feminist liberal" crowd that took selfies with Twitter's Jack-on-crack carrying signs deriding "brahminical patriarchy" -- same crowd.

" Space moms" is a fantastic movie.

The demon-rat american "liberal wokes" are racist, bigoted scumbags and they have the full support of "secular" Indian americans. The fuggers must be treated like the plague as far as Indian interests are concerned. Their only aim is to rubbish India, and they make no bones about it. Bollywood and the D-gang scum like the Kapoor clan, Shak Rukh Khan, Aamir Khan, and Salman Khan needs to be burnt down to the ground, figuratively speaking -- Yogi's plan for UP movie industry can achieve that if young talent is given a chance.


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