West Asia News and Discussions

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Atmavik
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Atmavik » 15 May 2021 00:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od0KzQN4TpQ

@ 5:45 show the rokets used. these are MBRL.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 15 May 2021 02:56

I am surprised with all the sophisticated drones and satellites Israel is unable to take out these MBRLs, i mean, Gaza is a small city and its not like one can hide a MBRL in their bedroom ! A ground invasion sounds like a bad idea given how many boobytraps Hamas must have laid. Just blockade them in all directions and continue to pound them mercilessly.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 15 May 2021 03:02

Just in - Looks like IDF has entered the Gaza Strip. I wouldnt be too surprised if the whole thing was orchestrated by Iran to draw a wedge between between Israel and sunni arab countries.
Last edited by Ambar on 15 May 2021 03:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby sanjaykumar » 15 May 2021 03:10

The PAlestinians are said to use cover of civilian populations, ie to use them as human shields to insulate the MBRL launchers.

It is notable that whilst Israel has bomb shelters widely available for the population (at least Jes), Gaza apparently does not. Is it deliberate policy by the Palestinian authority?

Also do the bomb shelters in Israel have separate chambers for Jew and Muslim?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 15 May 2021 09:59

Ambar wrote:Just in - Looks like IDF has entered the Gaza Strip. I wouldnt be too surprised if the whole thing was orchestrated by Iran to draw a wedge between between Israel and sunni arab countries.


At this moment in time no Arab country that has made peace with Isreal will break it. They have bigger fish to fry and the Palestinians don't even enter the collective calculations of the Arab Monarchies.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 15 May 2021 10:03

sanjaykumar wrote:The PAlestinians are said to use cover of civilian populations, ie to use them as human shields to insulate the MBRL launchers.

It is notable that whilst Israel has bomb shelters widely available for the population (at least Jes), Gaza apparently does not. Is it deliberate policy by the Palestinian authority?

Also do the bomb shelters in Israel have separate chambers for Jew and Muslim?


PLO has not been in charge of Gaza for a very long time. Post the death of Arafat the PLO people were killed or compelled to switch sides to Hamas in 2006-07 time frame in Gaza. Howsoever Hamas came into being, they don't have peace with Israel on the agenda today or ever.

Which is the reason why a period or relative peace has existed between West Bank and Israel. As its still ruled by Palestinian Authority.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 15 May 2021 11:14

Atmavik wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od0KzQN4TpQ

@ 5:45 show the rockets used. these are MBRL.


And No way the Launchers, Propellants, Steel , electronics, Machinery were made in some Garage with Civilian items, The AL Jazeera video is propaganda(Steel for Pipe fencing with various diameters will not be of the quality or the size for rocket launchers, similarly explosives of Mk-84 bombs do not become rocket propellant) , these rockets are imported along with Launchers and in a limited number and Hamas will soon be out of rockets, things will go back to normal till Hamas gets the next round of rockets.

It also suits Israel as their population does not become complacent and they need to Invest defense systems from a preemptive strike. SHowing their defense systems works and can intercept even artillery and MBRL is a very big deterrent to rest of the Arab leaders.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 15 May 2021 13:28

inside the hamas's tunnels of death

read the full article


Image


The tunnels of death: Inside Hamas’s underground passages used to move weapons and ambush Israeli forces - who are now obliterating the network with airstrikes


Israel Defence Forces have long been trying to destroy the tunnels in the Gaza Strip that appeared after 2007

Apparently tricked Hamas into sending fighters into the tunnels then bombed them, killing many militants

Network was used by Hamas in 2014 Israel-Gaza war to enter the Jewish state, ambush soldiers, and return

First tunnels were built into Egypt to bypass the Israeli blockade of Gaza, had pivoted towards Israel by 2014

The passages, which Hamas claims are for defence, now branch dozens of kilometres through the Gaza Strip

Israel completed a 41-mile underground border wall with motion sensors to detect tunnel digging in March

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 15 May 2021 14:56

Ambar wrote:I am surprised with all the sophisticated drones and satellites Israel is unable to take out these MBRLs, i mean, Gaza is a small city and its not like one can hide a MBRL in their bedroom ! A ground invasion sounds like a bad idea given how many boobytraps Hamas must have laid. Just blockade them in all directions and continue to pound them mercilessly.


The MLRS systems used by Hammas are quite sophisticated and improvised. Hamas demonstrated this back in 2009 itself.

Quite a lot of them were hidden in the chassis of dumpers and urban waste collectors. From areal surveillance it was impossible to determine which was what. Unless it fired the rockets. A picture of one from the last war is linked below.

Image
Last edited by Pratyush on 15 May 2021 15:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 15 May 2021 15:02

Aditya_V wrote:
And No way the Launchers, Propellants, Steel , electronics, Machinery were made in some Garage with Civilian items, The AL Jazeera video is propaganda(Steel for Pipe fencing with various diameters will not be of the quality or the size for rocket launchers, similarly explosives of Mk-84 bombs do not become rocket propellant) , these rockets are imported along with Launchers and in a limited number and Hamas will soon be out of rockets, things will go back to normal till Hamas gets the next round of rockets.

It also suits Israel as their population does not become complacent and they need to Invest defense systems from a preemptive strike. SHowing their defense systems works and can intercept even artillery and MBRL is a very big deterrent to rest of the Arab leaders.


Done be so sure. The engineering knowledge has been acquired over the decades by both Hizbualla and Hamas. Its not all very high tech.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 15 May 2021 19:43

IDF just flattened the office tower and residential apartments of Al Jazeera ! Pulverized it !

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 15 May 2021 21:00

In the ultimate accounting,for there to be a lasting peace between the two sides, eco. prosperity has to happen in the Palestinian zones too. You can't have a highly properous gated- state like Israel next door to an impoverished ghetto-like Gaza and West Bank on the other. Look at the US- Mexico border, where even S. and Central Am. would-be illegal immigrants are waiting to swarm across purely for a better life.Instead of wasting their time in destructive weapons building, Hamas,etc. should be building the infra. and appliances and machinery that every economy and civilised state requires.

There is however v.little land available for the burgeoning Palest. population. Land,the " Promised Land", has been the bane for millenia between the Israelites and the Phillistines ( corrupted to Palestinians).
The international community should therefore prepare and fund a new large SEZ settlement in the Sinai ( like Hong Kong) adjacent to Gaza,leased land from Egypt which has a huge unpopulated Sinai desert, which will get a tidy sum in rental, built by the western conglomerates like Bechtel, using cheap Palest. labour,keeping them employed, creating a large port,land reclamation too,there's quadrillion tons of desert sands available in the Sinai,Egypt wins again. This " smart" entity will have Israeli surveillance and security , with all port,land and airport security under Israeli/ intl. control. Financial control by the intl.SEZ authority ,so little chance of Palest. corruption. The Palestinians can control municipal services,and run their own lifestyle their way, but overall security in Israeli/intl. hands.
There is even an Israeli proposal for an Israeli canal linking the Medditt. from Gaza to the Gulf of Aqaba through the Sinai to relieve congestion in the Suez Canxl.

It's only an idea,but it sends all concerned into productive use of their time. Remember the old adage," a hungry man is an angry man".It's past time to fill bellies.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 15 May 2021 23:09

The average Palestinian is much better fed, clothed, housed than an average Indian. Ever since the oil boom the Palestinians have enjoyed an unlimited supply of money and material from their ummah benefactors. There isnt a mosque in the world including mosques in India that does not raise money for the "Palestinian cause". Even with all this if they are less prosperous they only have themselves to blame. I don't know if its still true but until few years back Palestine had the highest population density in the world and also the highest birth rate in the world beating countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. You would think when you are short on land you want to be careful about producing more babies but no, they want to create an army of believers to overwhelm Israel with numbers and the result is more poverty, lack of jobs, lack of space and more frustration despite all the help.

It is naïve to believe jobs and a better economy will somehow dissuade your 20 something Palestinian young man from picking up a gun or a throwing a rock. The 100 odd incidents of islamic terror attacks in Europe in just the last 6 years were all perpetrated by those who had no shortage of food or shelter or jobs, this is dar-al-harb Vs dar-al-islam, trifles like good economy better jobs is for us SDREs not shantidoots.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby g.sarkar » 16 May 2021 00:45

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/is ... r-BB1gL2wO
Israel accused of tricking major news outlets into reporting a fake Gaza invasion to lure Hamas fighters into tunnels that were targeted for massive airstrikes
jkossoff@businessinsider.com (Julian Kossoff)

Reports in the international media that Israel had entered Gaza to battle militants are being viewed by some as the result of a ploy to lure the fighters into defensive positions that made them targets for Israeli airpower.
On Thursday, news that Israel Defense Forces troops were massing at Israel's border with Gaza was widely reported. Then, early Friday in Israel, an IDF statement prompted news outlets to widely report that an invasion had begun. However, it gradually became evident that an attack did take place but did not involve Israeli troops entering Gaza.
Nir Dvori, a military reporter for N12, one of Israel's leading news networks, described the original IDF statement as disinformation meant to prompt Gaza's fighters to enter the tunnel system, known by the IDF as "the metro," to prepare for street battles in the enclave.
"The IDF makes Hamas think that a ground operation is beginning, which causes the organization to bring in all its fighters, including the Nahba, the special force of Hamas, to go down into the tunnels and prepare for combat," Dvori wrote.
"Then for 35 minutes, 160 planes hover over Gaza and drop 450 bombs, which are over 80 tons of explosives, on the entire Gaza 'metro.'"
In London, Michael Stephens, a Middle East specialist at the Royal United Services Institute, echoed that conclusion. He told BBC Radio 4's World at One news segment that it was "a very smart tactic to make Hamas move into the tunnels and get all their preparation ready so that the Israeli military could target them."
The move marks a major escalation amid this week's violence between Israel and Palestinian militants. The region is facing its worst violence since the 50-day war in 2014. The Israeli military has bombarded Gaza with airstrikes, and Hamas - the group that controls Gaza - and other militant groups have fired more than a thousand rockets toward Israel.
The Israeli media has noted the possibility of a disinformation strategy in the Friday-morning attack, with The Jerusalem Post publishing an article with the headline "Did IDF deception lead to massive aerial assault on Hamas's 'Metro'?" and the Israeli newspaper Haaretz publishing another titled "Israeli Army tells foreign media it has ground forces in Gaza - then apologizes for misleading them."
Foreign correspondents and reporters had received a WhatsApp message at 12:17 a.m. that seemed to inform them that Israeli ground troops were in Gaza. But then, two hours later, the IDF started to disassemble the message.
.....
Gautam

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby rsingh » 16 May 2021 03:28

^^^^^
legitimate tactical move. What is wrong in that? I would have done that. What about news media lies that we see every now and that. Is it legitimate for New York time to lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? oh there are millions of incidents when main media propels false stories to influence elections, outcome of wars or economic disaster for any given country. It depends who pays more.......well most of time.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 May 2021 04:43

With respect to that Charlie Hebdo cartoon on India’s millions of gods, these holy landers have one common god but they haven’t stopped killing for his glory for the past 14-20 centuries.


Europeans do need to read David Hume.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby m_saini » 16 May 2021 15:01

"I had a conversation with Bibi Netanyahu not too long ago," Biden told reporters. "My expectation and hope is that this will be closing down sooner than later, but Israel has a right to defend itself when you have thousands of rockets flying into your territory."


Biden faces an angry rift in his own party over Israeli-Palestinian conflict

US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin spoke with Israeli Minister of Defense Benny Gantz Saturday. "I reaffirmed Israel's right to defend itself and condemned Hamas' deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians," Austin said on Twitter.

"Do Palestinians have a right to survive?" asked New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in a fiery speech on Thursday.

Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib responded on Saturday to the attack on the building housing international media. "Israel targeting media sources is so the world can't see Israel's war crimes led by the apartheid-in-chief Netanyahu," she tweeted

In a statement Friday casting forward to the White House's celebration of Eid, the Muslim religious festival, Biden tempered his comments from earlier in the week.
"Palestinians -- including in Gaza -- and Israelis equally deserve to live in dignity, safety and security," he said, recognizing Palestinians without criticizing Israel.

Biden's approach, while it leaves much for fellow Democrats to criticize, is a far cry from Trump's all-in for Israel approach, which he used to his political advantage with Christian voters.
Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, a controversial move that angered Palestinians. Biden chose not to move the embassy back.


Love how the US policy remains the same whether it's the "hooman rights" lefties or "grab 'em by the pu**y" christian nationalists.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby srin » 16 May 2021 16:49

What is the endgame in the West Asia ?

There is no way that Palestinians would be able to get their old territories - they'll be lucky to retain the current West Bank and Gaza. Forget any claims about Jerusalem.

There is no viability of independent Palestine that has two territories that are discontinuous.

For all the lip service about Palestinian cause, no Arab (and non-Arab) country really want to shelter the Palestinian people in their country. If they really wanted to, they could have solved this decades ago (most of the ME is barren desert - so providing refuge wouldn't really make a difference ... if they cared enough).

There is no place for Palestinian Arabs in Israel. Jews will always be the only first class citizens there.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 16 May 2021 16:58

srin wrote:What is the endgame in the West Asia ?

There is no way that Palestinians would be able to get their old territories - they'll be lucky to retain the current West Bank and Gaza. Forget any claims about Jerusalem.

There is no viability of independent Palestine that has two territories that are discontinuous.

For all the lip service about Palestinian cause, no Arab (and non-Arab) country really want to shelter the Palestinian people in their country. If they really wanted to, they could have solved this decades ago (most of the ME is barren desert - so providing refuge wouldn't really make a difference ... if they cared enough).

There is no place for Palestinian Arabs in Israel. Jews will always be the only first class citizens there.


The reason nobody in the Arab wants to give shelter to Palestinians is the Muslim claim on Al Aqsa mosque and controlling Christian Religious sites, they are are biding their time hoping one day they will able to get it. Israel with 1 million population can be over powered. Christians know this and this is the real reason for American support, cause if the Jews were not their this would become an open Muslim Christian battle and many geopolitical objectives cannot be achieved.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby AshishA » 16 May 2021 18:49

sanjaykumar wrote:With respect to that Charlie Hebdo cartoon on India’s millions of gods, these holy landers have one common god but they haven’t stopped killing for his glory for the past 14-20 centuries.


Europeans do need to read David Hume.

What did David Hume say in this context?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 16 May 2021 19:01

Aditya_V wrote:
srin wrote:What is the endgame in the West Asia ?

There is no way that Palestinians would be able to get their old territories - they'll be lucky to retain the current West Bank and Gaza. Forget any claims about Jerusalem.

There is no viability of independent Palestine that has two territories that are discontinuous.

For all the lip service about Palestinian cause, no Arab (and non-Arab) country really want to shelter the Palestinian people in their country. If they really wanted to, they could have solved this decades ago (most of the ME is barren desert - so providing refuge wouldn't really make a difference ... if they cared enough).

There is no place for Palestinian Arabs in Israel. Jews will always be the only first class citizens there.


The reason nobody in the Arab wants to give shelter to Palestinians is the Muslim claim on Al Aqsa mosque and controlling Christian Religious sites, they are are biding their time hoping one day they will able to get it. Israel with 1 million population can be over powered. Christians know this and this is the real reason for American support, cause if the Jews were not their this would become an open Muslim Christian battle and many geopolitical objectives cannot be achieved.


They are also trouble makers. Jordan allowed them to settle and the PLO nearly tookout the king and the royal family. Lebanon took them in and they started the Lebanese civil war which burns to this day. The rich Palestinians are all in gulf shiekhdoms or in Europe, the poor and middle class are back home building rockets, tunnels, and teaching their 10 yr olds how to fire a AK 47 at the joos.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 16 May 2021 19:05

Pratyush wrote:
Ambar wrote:I am surprised with all the sophisticated drones and satellites Israel is unable to take out these MBRLs, i mean, Gaza is a small city and its not like one can hide a MBRL in their bedroom ! A ground invasion sounds like a bad idea given how many boobytraps Hamas must have laid. Just blockade them in all directions and continue to pound them mercilessly.


The MLRS systems used by Hammas are quite sophisticated and improvised. Hamas demonstrated this back in 2009 itself.

Quite a lot of them were hidden in the chassis of dumpers and urban waste collectors. From areal surveillance it was impossible to determine which was what. Unless it fired the rockets. A picture of one from the last war is linked below.

Image


That looks like a drain pipes and rusted, and what about getting a rocket which is manufactured to specs and fires correctly, it cannot be done in a garage.

If these were garage made they would not be flying to Telaviv, 90% would be blowing up within Gaza. and where can you get such high grade steel and propellent.

If Gaza can manufacture these so easily, Pakis would have manufactured millions and obliterated any Indian village 15km from the LOC. It will not us so long to develop Pinaka.

There is simply none of tech to manufacturer the relevant steel, chemicals and electronics within Gaza. Israel equally needs to show these guys true intentions otherwise nobody can defend their position.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 16 May 2021 21:16

The coverage of massive protests against Israel in many western cities from LA to NYC to London to Stockholm to Paris leaves me in awe about the ability of shantidoots to rapidly organize and mobilize thousands. It also makes me scratch my head when i see predominantly upper middleclass whites march with them in solidarity including the feminist and LGBT crowd. Does the irony never dawn on them that they can never dare raise their voice about gay rights or women rights in Palestine unless they want to be skinned or stoned alive ? Do the bleeding heart native Europeans/Americans never ask themselves where were these protests against radical Islam which has conducted more than 100 deadly terror attacks in Europe since 2014 ? Israel is conducting military operations against military targets, when they hit a building they give ample warning and use precision laser guided bombs, Hamas and Hezbollah on the other hand are indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli cities and the liberal western logic is Israel is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the aggressors ?! Bin Laden must be groveling in his deep sea grave thinking he could have easily been the MP of Glasgow or mayor of Berlin and a revolutionary hero had he lived.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 May 2021 22:05

It is a bit comical, granted. But these people are only trying to insulate themselves against another 9/11. It isn’t even the Stockholm syndrome. It is an planned ingratiation with their tormentors.

Michael Kugelman has a Twitter post for Kashmiris on Eid.

Does kugelman even know how to pronounce the word, let alone have any legitimate business with Kashmir?


Ahh. To bring back the 1980s-buy their oil, sell them weapons, let them tour the whorehouses of New York and London. Fight a jihad together against the soviets. But here we are reduced to bleating ingratiatingly about Kashmir.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby m_saini » 16 May 2021 23:52

South African Gov wants Israel conduct referred to ICC for crimes against humanity

The South African government said it wants Israel’s conduct to be investigated and referred to the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

The International Relations department said disturbing images of Israel’s ongoing attacks on Palestinians which violates UN resolutions - justifies an urgent call for intervention by the international community.

“South Africa strongly condemns the unjust attacks by Israel on Palestinian civilians and calls on Israel to immediately stop all these hostilities and comply with international law,” said the department’s spokesperson Clayson Monyela.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 17 May 2021 13:28

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/05/16 ... za-updates
XCpts:
Live Updates: No Sign of Israel-Gaza Conflict Ending
A U.N. Security Council made no progress on resolving the conflict, and Israeli warplanes began attacking Gaza again as the conflict moved into its second week.

Here’s what you need to know:
Netanyahu says there is no clear end in sight, and airstrikes begin again.
As Israel and Hamas fight, civilians suffer.
The U.N. Security Council held its first open meeting on the crisis but took no action.
In pictures: Fire and thunder fill the night sky as Israel’s Iron Dome is tested.
Catch up on the major flash points from seven days of conflict.
Israel’s attack on a press building in Gaza draws condemnations.
Why did the Israeli-Palestinian conflict explode after years of quiet?
Tel Aviv, often seen as a beachside party town, has been targeted with over 160 rockets
Netanyahu says there is no clear end in sight, and airstrikes begin again.
Palestinian civil defense men search for people in the rubble of a destroyed building after an Israeli air strike in Gaza City on Sunday.Credit...Fatima Shbair/Getty Images

Speaking on CBS’ Face The Nation on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel said there was no clear end in sight to the violence between Israel and Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

“We’ll do whatever it takes to restore order and quiet,” he said, adding, “It will take some time.”

Hours after he spoke, Israeli warplanes began another round of attacks in the Gaza Strip, attacking a main road, security compounds and an electricity line feeding southern Gaza City, according to The Associated Press and local media reports. The attack was heavier, and lasted longer, than the air raids from the day before, the reports noted.

Also late Sunday, Jon Ossoff, a Democrat from Georgia, and 27 other Senators called for an immediate cease-fire “to prevent further loss of life.”

Mr. Netanyahu defended his nation’s bombing and shelling of Gaza, which Palestinian authorities say has killed at least 197 people, including 58 children. At least 10 people in Israel have died in rocket attacks fired from Gaza, the territory controlled by the militant group Hamas.

Representatives of the United States, Qatar, Egypt and others have tried to broker a cease-fire, so far to no avail.

“If there will be one it will be reached with our conditions, not Israeli conditions,” Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy leader of Hamas, told the Israeli public broadcaster Kan on Sunday. “If Israel does not want to stop, we will not stop.”

The general in charge of Israel’s Southern Command, Eliezer Toledano, told Kan, “it is important we continue to exhaust the campaign that we have entered and deepen the damage being caused to Hamas.”

The Israel Defense Forces, in a statement on Monday morning, said that it continued to hit targets in Gaza, including nine residences belonging to high-ranking commanders in Hamas. Some of those residence, the statement said, were used to store weapons.

Israel has faced wide condemnation from international press organizations for blowing up a building on Saturday that housed the offices of international media organizations including The Associated Press and Al Jazeera. Israeli forces warned in advance of the attack, and there were no casualties reported.

Israeli officials claimed that the building harbored military assets for Hamas. Speaking on Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu provided no clear evidence to support that claim, and also did not confirm whether he presented any evidence of this assertion during a conversation with Mr. Biden.

“It’s a perfectly legitimate target,” he said, adding that Israeli forces “unlike Hamas, take special precautions to tell people ‘Leave the building, leave the premises.’”

On the killings of Palestinian children, Mr. Netanyahu pointed the blame at Hamas, saying the organization uses civilians as human shields.

“We are targeting a terrorist organization that is targeting our civilians and hiding behind their civilians, using them as human shields,” he said. “We’re doing everything we can to hit the terrorists themselves, their rockets, their rocket caches and their arms, but we’re not just going to let them get away with it.”

He said Israel does everything it can to avoid civilian casualties. “They’re sending thousands of rockets on our cities with the specific purpose of murdering our civilians from these places,” he said. “What would you do?”

— Will Wright
As Israel and Hamas fight, civilians suffer.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 17 May 2021 13:36

The one country that has the most influence on events in the Arab-Israeli spat is the US,simply because of its massive eco,dpl. and military support to Israel, even taking pro-active measures against Israel's enemies like Iran,by assassinating Gen.Soleimani,etc. The Biden admin. is now under heavy pressure to do everything it can to stop the war going on between Israel and Hamas.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... t-rages-on

Joe Biden feels political ground shift as Israel-Gaza conflict rages on
Analysis: US president may find himself increasingly isolated in his resolute defence of Israel
Joe Biden’s stance on Israel has not shifted in his many decades in politics
Julian Borger in Washington
Sun 16 May 2021 17.36 BST

In his staunch defence of Israel, Joe Biden is sticking to a course set decades ago as a young senator, and so far he has not given ground on the issue to the progressive wing of his party or many Jewish Democrats urging a tougher line towards Benjamin Netanyahu.

Biden has even been prepared to face isolation at the UN security council, at the potential cost of his own credibility on multilateralism and human rights. But analysts say that as the death toll rises with no sign of a ceasefire, the domestic and international pressures on the president could become impossible to ignore.


American Jews have grown increasingly sceptical of Netanyahu and his policies. A Pew Research Center survey published last week found that only 40% thought the prime minister was providing good leadership, falling to 32% among younger Jews. Strikingly, only 34% strongly opposed sanctions or other punitive measures against Israel.

The liberal Jewish American lobby, J Street, has growing influence in the Democratic party and has urged Biden to do more to stop the bloodshed and the Israeli policies that have helped drive the conflict.

Protesters march in support of Palestine near in Washington DC on Saturday. Photograph: Andrew Caballero-Reynolds/AFP/Getty Images
“We’re also urging the administration to make clear publicly that Israeli efforts to evict and displace Palestinian families in East Jerusalem and the West Bank are unacceptable, as is the use of excessive force against protesters,” said Jeremy Ben-Ami, the group’s president.

A prominent progressive Jewish writer, Peter Beinart, wrote a commentary in the New York Times last week arguing for the right of Palestinian refugees to return as the only long-term solution to the cycle of violence. “The East Jerusalem evictions are so combustible because they continue a pattern of expulsion that is as old as Israel itself,” Beinart wrote.

Donald Trump’s unquestioning embrace of Netanyahu and his policies contributed to making Israel policy a partisan issue. Facing increasing opposition from American Jews, the former Israeli ambassador to the US Ron Dermer argued publicly last week that the Israeli government should spend more of its energy reaching out to “passionate” American evangelicals, rather than Jews who he said were “disproportionately among our critics”.

US evangelicals such as Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo helped shape Trump policy on Israel. They are not a force in the Democratic party but a consideration in red and purple states Biden will have to win in next year’s midterm congressional elections to maintain a majority.

However, he cannot afford to alienate the progressive wing of his own party. It was progressive enthusiasm, and the support of prominent figures such as Bernie Sanders, that helped Biden win the presidency where Hillary Clinton failed.

Congressional progressives such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have been more and more outspoken in their criticism of the Biden line of emphasising Israel’s right of defence “If the Biden admin can’t stand up to an ally, who can it stand up to? How can they credibly claim to stand for human rights?” Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Twitter on Saturday.


chetak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 17 May 2021 21:19

If you are a major financer of a terrorist regime you're going to have a bad time.

Hamas financer Abd Al Aziz Al Khaldi received a courtesy call to say goodbye to his mansion.



Image

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 17 May 2021 22:18

At #UNSC meet on Israel-Palestine:
"India expresses strong condemnation of all acts of violence; urges immediate deescalation; reiterates support to just Palestinian cause & commitment to 2-State solution" Ambassador T.S. Tirumurti

Why do we gain from this monkey balance ? The Palestinian ambassador sits with UN certified terrorists in Pakistan and we continue to talk about "2-state solution", "condemnation of all acts of violence", "ceasefire" and other assorted babu-speak instead of calling a spade a spade that Hamas is a terror organization and Israel has every right to defend herself.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Sachin » 17 May 2021 23:40

Ambar wrote:"India expresses strong condemnation of all acts of violence; urges immediate deescalation; reiterates support to just Palestinian cause & commitment to 2-State solution" Ambassador T.S. Tirumurti

What 2 state solution does this Ambassador want? As per my understanding there is territory called Palestine which even have some sort of a President running the show. And did see a video on YouTube where this gent also is seen escorting Modi during a Guard of Honour, with some Palestinian 'defence personnel' and even a band. So for all practical purpose there are two countries Israel & Palestine already in place.

This kind of 'putting legs on two boats' has been Indian MEA's standard gimmick. Ultimately the boats may go in two directions and then any one can guess which body parts get hurt. I remember reading a book (by M.K Dhar, IIRC) which talks about India's relationship with Israel. When the goings were really bad in J&K Indian governments decided to seek Israel help. And at that time India had not even official recognized Israel, in order to please the Arab Sheiks :roll:. Through friendly countries etc a liaison was established with Israel. And it seems Israelis knew the Indian politicians' need to bend backwards before the Arabs (economy, jobs in the Gelf etc + Oil) and why India is taking such a stance regarding Palestine. Israeli agencies then opened up a small private company in Dilli, which obviously could never be traced back to Israel and one which Indian officials could interact with. This could be a reason why Israel seems to be helping India (with off course invoices & bills also being sent on time).

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby jamwal » 17 May 2021 23:50

Preview of a simulation video of rocket warfare going on between Israel and Hamas. Latter is firing BM-21 rockets and Syrian/Iranian versions of Frog from Gaza settlement. As the launchers are located in civilian areas, Israel has to be careful in it's response to reduce civilian casualties. Lot of precision attacks on ammunition storage bunkers, Hamas offices and other high value targets are going on. I wanted to just do a simple rocket attack and defence by Iron Dome and other air defence systems, but it kind of expanded a bit more than I planned. Full video will come in a few days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKs4AFCuYtc


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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Vips » 18 May 2021 19:08

Ambar wrote:The coverage of massive protests against Israel in many western cities from LA to NYC to London to Stockholm to Paris leaves me in awe about the ability of shantidoots to rapidly organize and mobilize thousands. It also makes me scratch my head when i see predominantly upper middleclass whites march with them in solidarity including the feminist and LGBT crowd. Does the irony never dawn on them that they can never dare raise their voice about gay rights or women rights in Palestine unless they want to be skinned or stoned alive ? Do the bleeding heart native Europeans/Americans never ask themselves where were these protests against radical Islam which has conducted more than 100 deadly terror attacks in Europe since 2014 ? Israel is conducting military operations against military targets, when they hit a building they give ample warning and use precision laser guided bombs, Hamas and Hezbollah on the other hand are indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli cities and the liberal western logic is Israel is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the aggressors ?! Bin Laden must be groveling in his deep sea grave thinking he could have easily been the MP of Glasgow or mayor of Berlin and a revolutionary hero had he lived.


For all the stupid low IQ unintelligent protestors and direct/indirect supporters of Islam, i have a picture of the specially reared and fattened Broiler Chickens on a moving assembly line waiting to be butchered hallaled.

The Islamic forces and their planners have won. They have systematically embedded themselves in all important sections of the western society , use its assets and resources to score their propaganda wins while steadily and (even exponentially) increasing their numbers all over the non-muslim world. They must be laughing themselves silly at the ignorant kaffirs supporting the extinction of their own way of life and possibly the life of their near and dear ones.

May be the western world and non-muslim civilizations have given up and its just fait accompli.

The only countries aware of the impending doom and which are not dhimmified and compromised like India are Israel, China, Myanmar and the Buddhist countries where the Buddhist Monks have a say in the political affairs.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby A Deshmukh » 18 May 2021 19:20

Vips wrote:
Ambar wrote:The Islamic forces and their planners have won. They have systematically embedded themselves in all important sections of the western society , use its assets and resources to score their propaganda wins while steadily and (even exponentially) increasing their numbers all over the non-muslim world. They must be laughing themselves silly at the ignorant kaffirs supporting the extinction of their own way of life and possibly the life of their near and dear ones.

In one way this will be good for us.
It would help, if countries like France, Britain, US, wake up and start enacting laws against religious fundamentalism,
it would be easier for us to do the same.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby rsingh » 18 May 2021 22:12

Ambar wrote:At #UNSC meet on Israel-Palestine:
"India expresses strong condemnation of all acts of violence; urges immediate deescalation; reiterates support to just Palestinian cause & commitment to 2-State solution" Ambassador T.S. Tirumurti

Why do we gain from this monkey balance ? The Palestinian ambassador sits with UN certified terrorists in Pakistan and we continue to talk about "2-state solution", "condemnation of all acts of violence", "ceasefire" and other assorted babu-speak instead of calling a spade a spade that Hamas is a terror organization and Israel has every right to defend herself.

Not that bad actually. We can not support Israel openly as we have good friends in Arab world. India supports Israel. Our diplomacy s fine balancing act. Has to be like this. Situation is evolving fast and we need a policy that serves India. JMT

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 18 May 2021 22:26

1.A new (old) threat to Israel from Hamas.naval commandos striking from the sea.An UW submersible reportedly destroyed.
Israel is targeting Hamas naval forces. So what can Hamas do .
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/worl ... 0he%20said.

Israeli Warships Fire Missiles At Gaza While Hamas Takes Aim At Offshore Oil Platforms
As the Israeli bombardment of Gaza continues, the conflict has now added a maritime dimension.
2.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... -platforms
Xcpts:
BY THOMAS NEWDICK MAY 17, 2021
THE WAR ZONE

Reports, as well as video and photos from the Eastern Mediterranean, demonstrate that the Gaza conflict is rapidly expanding into the maritime domain, with Israeli missile strikes now being launched from vessels off the coast against reported Hamas targets in the self-governing Palestinian territory. At the same time, reports from both sides in the conflict confirm that Hamas militants are meanwhile launching rockets against Israeli natural gas platforms in the Mediterranean, which, in turn, are being defended by shipborne Iron Dome air defense systems, and other assets.

With significant overmatch enjoyed by the Israel Defense Forces, or IDF, in the maritime domain, Israeli Navy vessels are now targeting objectives in Gaza using precision-guided missiles launched from the sea. At least one of the publically available videos appears to show the use of a Rafael SPIKE, a familiar precision attack weapon that is also available in navalized form. With an advertised range of almost 20 miles, the Naval SPIKE Non-Line-Of-Sight (NLOS) version can be employed in a “fire and forget” mode or using man-in-the-loop guidance. In the latter mode, the missile can be fired at a specific area and then be manually steered onto the target by an operator who is seeing what the missile sees via a feed from an infrared camera in its nose. In this way, the SPIKE can also be used to reconnoiter targets before striking them, with extreme precision, as well.

While the video below includes many of the hallmarks of SPIKE, the Israeli Navy could potentially also make use of the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Harop for attacks in Gaza. A pioneering suicide drone that is in both Israeli and foreign use, the Harop came to wider prominence after its use in the brief conflict last year between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the contested region of Nagorno-Karabakh. Like the SPIKE, the Harop has also been adapted for maritime use and recently won an order from an undisclosed navy in Asia, as you can read about here.

Israeli reports suggest that, during the first six days of the current campaign in Gaza, the Israeli Navy carried out approximately 100 attacks against Hamas targets, using both missile ships and undisclosed other vessels. This is part of a wider IDF campaign that’s been waged against Gaza, with hundreds of airstrikes that have so far claimed the lives of at least 200 Palestinians.

“The most significant thing, as in all of the IDF, is denying [the enemy] capabilities and establishing a strong defense,” the head of the Israeli Navy Major General Eli Sharvit told the press. “Therefore, we have attacked bases, vessels, weapons warehouses, infrastructure, and operatives. We have acted so that the naval arms of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas would be depressed.”

Aside from its offensive operations launched against targets in Gaza, the Israeli Navy is also actively defending the Tamar offshore oilfield. This is located around 50 miles west of the Israeli port of Haifa, and some 14 miles off the coast of Ashkelon, which has borne the brunt of massed rocket attacks, and it lies entirely within Israel’s exclusive economic zone.

At the time of its discovery, in 2009, it was the largest find of gas or oil in the Levant basin of the Eastern Mediterranean. Providing the majority of Israel’s electricity requirements, the importance of these energy reserves is such that the Israeli Navy’s latest Sa’ar 6 class corvettes are widely thought to have been tailored, at least in part, to protecting these installations. The first two vessels in this class are still being outfitted with weapons and other systems.

Much of Israel’s apparent success in defeating the extensive rocket, mortar, and drone attacks it is now facing has been attributed to the Iron Dome air defense system, which you can read about in more detail here. In a ground-based context, the IDF claims that the Iron Dome air defense system has intercepted between 85 and 90 percent of rockets and mortar shells heading toward populated areas in recent days, although that figure could be questionable since Hamas has made concerted efforts to overwhelm the system. As of May 17, 10 people in Israel had been killed in the course of the 3,100 rocket attacks launched from Gaza.

A signal that the natural gas fields of the Eastern Mediterranean were under attack, or at least the imminent threat of attack, came last week when the U.S.-owned Chevron Corporation, a multinational energy concern, said it was temporarily shutting down its operations at the Tamar offshore platform. This followed a statement from the Al Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, claiming that they had targeted a “Zionist gas platform” off Gaza.

“Chevron’s top priority is the safety of our personnel, our facilities, and the environment of the communities in which we operate,” a company spokesperson told the Times of Israel.

Although the Israeli Ministry of Energy said the shutdown was not directly related to the statement from Hamas, Chevron, which has an almost 40 percent stake in Tanar, appeared to contradict this, a spokesperson confirming to the same newspaper that the Israeli Ministry of Energy had requested the move.

For its part, the Israeli Ministry of Energy has said it is taking measures to ensure the supply of gas to powerplants continues and that the power supply is not affected. With another gas field, Leviathan, still operational, the energy situation for Israel is not as critical as it was when Tamar was temporarily shut down during fighting in Gaza in 2019 before Leviathan began pumping.

Since the latest Chevron shutdown, the Times of Israel has reported that Hamas has fired “dozens” of rockets toward the Tamar gas rig.

So far, there is no evidence that Hamas has successfully hit the Tamar field although the group has struck other Israeli energy infrastructure, hitting a large oil storage tank in Ashkelon with a rocket, leading to a major blaze. It’s not clear if that incident involved the deliberate targeting of the storage tank, or if it was simply the result of bombardment by unguided rockets.

While there are no figures available about the relative success of the Israeli Navy vessels fitted with Iron Dome that are currently deployed around the Tamar offshore oilfield, Israeli media reports that “none of these rockets came close to striking the rig.”

As well as defending against unguided rockets launched by Hamas, the Iron Dome is also effective against mortar fire and suicide drones — unmanned aerial vehicles carrying explosive warheads, which have also been used in the conflict and are potentially a more suitable weapon with which to target offshore oil infrastructure, since they incorporate some kind of guidance method. These drones share some broad similarities with the Iranian designs that have been employed extensively by the Houthis in Yemen, although they are notably smaller.

Loading up Israeli Navy corvettes with Iron Dome launchers now seems to be a more frequently used tactic, first evidenced by the appearance of the Sa’ar 5 class corvette Lahav armed with two of the launchers earlier this year. On that occasion, the vessel was apparently being prepared to defeat Iranian-supplied suicide drones in the hands of Houthi rebels in Yemen.

Last week, at least one Hamas suicide drone was reportedly downed by an Israeli Air Force F-16 fighter jet operating over the Eastern Mediterranean. There are also reports that at least one Rafael Barak 1 naval point-defense system has been deployed on a platform next to one of the rigs, to provide additional protection. The Barak 1 is primarily intended to defend against aircraft, anti-ship missiles, and drones.

Other potential weapons at the militants’ disposal to attack the oil platforms include “autonomous submarines,” many of which the IDF claims to have already destroyed. Little is known about these weapons, also described as remote-controlled underwater improvised explosive devices, or RC-UWEID. They may even be low-profile or semi-submersible unmanned surface vessels and they reportedly carry a warhead weighing up to 66 pounds. Apparently, at least some of Israel’s coastal missile strikes have been directed against infrastructure supporting these operations.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Cain Marko » 20 May 2021 10:39

rsingh wrote:
Ambar wrote:At #UNSC meet on Israel-Palestine:
"India expresses strong condemnation of all acts of violence; urges immediate deescalation; reiterates support to just Palestinian cause & commitment to 2-State solution" Ambassador T.S. Tirumurti

Why do we gain from this monkey balance ? The Palestinian ambassador sits with UN certified terrorists in Pakistan and we continue to talk about "2-state solution", "condemnation of all acts of violence", "ceasefire" and other assorted babu-speak instead of calling a spade a spade that Hamas is a terror organization and Israel has every right to defend herself.

Not that bad actually. We can not support Israel openly as we have good friends in Arab world. India supports Israel. Our diplomacy s fine balancing act. Has to be like this. Situation is evolving fast and we need a policy that serves India. JMT

In any case, some folks are doing something....
https://www.hindupost.in/society-culture/chicago-bharatiya-community-stands-in-solidarity-with-israel/

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby mody » 20 May 2021 18:48

Which bombs is Israel using to flatten the building in Gaza? Seems to be a ground penetrating bunker buster type ammunition.

chetak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 20 May 2021 21:54

Ambar wrote:The average Palestinian is much better fed, clothed, housed than an average Indian. Ever since the oil boom the Palestinians have enjoyed an unlimited supply of money and material from their ummah benefactors. There isnt a mosque in the world including mosques in India that does not raise money for the "Palestinian cause". Even with all this if they are less prosperous they only have themselves to blame. I don't know if its still true but until few years back Palestine had the highest population density in the world and also the highest birth rate in the world beating countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria. You would think when you are short on land you want to be careful about producing more babies but no, they want to create an army of believers to overwhelm Israel with numbers and the result is more poverty, lack of jobs, lack of space and more frustration despite all the help.

It is naïve to believe jobs and a better economy will somehow dissuade your 20 something Palestinian young man from picking up a gun or a throwing a rock. The 100 odd incidents of islamic terror attacks in Europe in just the last 6 years were all perpetrated by those who had no shortage of food or shelter or jobs, this is dar-al-harb Vs dar-al-islam, trifles like good economy better jobs is for us SDREs not shantidoots.


the palestinians are trouble makers where ever they go. They are lazy, entitled, constantly demanding, and almost all of them are bad workers, expecting other arabic govts and their employers to support their cause, support them when resident in other muslim countries by giving them doles and subsidizing almost everything and paying them high salaries for not even showing up at work because these palestinian guys are busy all day in politicking.

So, it's not surprising that they are unwelcome everywhere in the gulf and shunned by most employers.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby rsingh » 20 May 2021 22:11

^^^
That is the case with all others "suppressed " jihadis around the world.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Ambar » 20 May 2021 22:15

mody wrote:Which bombs is Israel using to flatten the building in Gaza? Seems to be a ground penetrating bunker buster type ammunition.


There's a very cool video on youtube where a Israeli pilot hovers over a building, first uses a low intensity bomb to blow the roof of the building exposing hidden rocket launchers, and then uses a high explosive bomb to completely flatten the structure.


EDIT : Here it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-gL21T ... unVerified


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