India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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sanjaykumar
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 Jun 2021 00:34

Japanese were honorary whites. The Chinese were not. And it was only applied to Japanese post their industrial and economic development, in the 1960s. As always the white man was ever alert to his pecuniary interest.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sanjaykumar » 14 Jun 2021 00:37

Anyway now that racial classification in South Africa has come up, how were the Afrikaners classified? As whites but really one can can observe the miscegenation in them. (I use this word with care, it has special meaning for the ilk of certain people).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby tapan » 14 Jun 2021 07:42

This could be the most disruptive event of 2021. If the critical US states de-certify the elections post audits, it will create a political and geopolitical crisis for the short term. The results of the Arizona audit are scheduled to be released soon.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/tou ... down-brews

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ele ... ssues-note

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-galle ... gn=gallery

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pratyush » 14 Jun 2021 11:52

sanjaykumar wrote:Japanese were honorary whites. The Chinese were not. And it was only applied to Japanese post their industrial and economic development, in the 1960s. As always the white man was ever alert to his pecuniary interest.


Not quite correct. They got the status after defeating the Russian Empire in the far east after 1905.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Suraj » 15 Jun 2021 00:16

g.sarkar wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Chinese are white?
You should ask the average joe. Or the American census bureau.
Even for pale Chinese, I have had white folk explain how their pallor is not the same as white skin.

During the Apartheid era, the Japanese were considered "White" in South Africa. The Chinese were given an "honorary" white status. These two groups were placed above the Indians, who in turn were above the mixed race and the black population.
Gautam

Taiwanese to be more specific. Apartheid SA maintained ties with Taiwan, not PRC. The SAA 295 air disaster was a flight from Taipei to Johannesburg. The passengers were mostly Japanese, Taiwanese and Saffers.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby sanjaykumar » 15 Jun 2021 01:16

Thus race has little to do with being classified white.


If Niger found it was sitting on a trillion dollars of oil, Niger people, however you call them, would find themselves white.

:mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 15 Jun 2021 16:02

@USCIRF is suspiciously involved with muslim brotherhoods and antiHindu, antiIndia, BIF muslim organizations.



Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 17 Jun 2021 14:22

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/twit ... 210616.htm
Twitter loses 'safe harbour' shield in India over non-compliance to IT rules
Roshneesh Kmaneck, June 16, 2021

Twitter has lost its 'safe harbour' protection in India over non-compliance with IT rules and failure to appoint key personnel mandated under the new guidelines, despite repeated reminders, and the platform will now be liable for action under the Indian Penal Code for third party unlawful content, sources said.
Earlier this month, the government had given one last chance to Twitter to comply with the new IT rules, that came into effect on May 26, and had issued a stern warning that failure to adhere to the norms will lead to the platform losing exemption from liability under the IT Act.
Sources in the government confirmed that Twitter has lost the safe harbour immunity, as it failed to comply with the IT rules, and appoint key executives under the new guidelines.
While the resident grievance officer and the nodal contact person nominated by the company, is not an employee of Twitter Inc in India, the Ministry had also not received any concrete information on Chief Compliance Officer, the name, or details, sources said.
.....
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/cops ... 210617.htm
Cops question Twitter India head over 'toolkit row': Sources
Roshneesh Kmaneck, June 17, 2021

Twitter India MD Manish Maheshwari was questioned by the Delhi Police last month in connection with its probe into the 'COVID toolkit' case, officials said Thursday.
They did not divulge further details, but said he was also questioned about the company's policy behind flagging tweets by users as "manipulated media".
This came after Twitter labelled as "manipulated media" a tweet by Bharatiya Janata Party spokesperson Sambit Patra on a ‘Covid toolkit', attributed to the Congress, on how to target the Modi government over its handling of the coronavirus crisis.
A senior police officer said Thursday that a Delhi Police's Special Cell team, which is probing the matter, was sent to Bengaluru on May 31 where Maheshwari was questioned.
The row over the purported ‘toolkit' escalated after the Delhi Police's Special Cell 'visited" two Twitter India offices on May 24 and served a notice, asking it to share information based on which it had classified Patra's tweet as "manipulated media".
......
Gautam

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vikramb » 20 Jun 2021 09:42

I am sharing below an article written by an analyst from The Hudson Institute, where our EAM had earlier this month held an interaction with Gen McMaster. The article is being shared in full as some readers may not be able to read it behind the paywall.

The gist of it seems to be if India refuses to offer significant concessions on the acquisition of S-400, accede to Biden's woke climate agenda, move away from PM Modi’s vision of Atmanirbhar Bharat and give unrestricted access to rabid evangelical organizations to convert the local populace, then it will threaten the "bipartisan" consensus in US to build ties with India. In effect, the author is threatening an alliance of woke Democrats and evangelical Republicans against India.

While the author harps on old history like Non Aligned Movement, India's ties with the former Soviet Union, he curiously omits mention of American support for Pakistan on Kashmir, American support for Portugal on Goa, opposition to the annexation of Hyderabad by India etc.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/is-ther ... and-india/

Is There Trouble Ahead for the US and India?

Clear challenges for the India-U.S. bilateral lay ahead over military, economic, and climate matters; tensions over democracy and human rights could flare up at any moment.

By Mike Watson
June 18, 2021

As U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris confirmed in her recent call with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, given that the coronavirus pandemic has receded in the United States, Washington can afford to send more vaccines and other aid abroad and India is at the top of the U.S. list. This is both a humane measure and smart policy: Indians have suffered tremendously throughout the pandemic, with a particularly lethal wave this spring driving the official death toll above 300,000; the unofficial toll is much higher. India is also an important partner for the United States and is one of the few countries that can act as an effective counterbalance to China and prevent Beijing from dominating Asia.

U.S. and Indian strategists have long recognized this confluence of interests and have worked to strengthen the bilateral relationship, but it has been a difficult process and is likely to remain so. Despite frequent references to the natural alliance between the world’s oldest democracy and the world’s largest, the ties between New Delhi and Washington are unlikely to ever rival the closeness of the Anglo-American special relationship. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who lived in France during his childhood, may find Modi to be as important but difficult to work with as his predecessors found Charles de Gaulle. President Joe Biden can make significant progress with India, but to do so, he will have to set aside some of his other top priorities on Russia, trade, the environment, and maybe even human rights. If he does not, by the end of the year there will be a significant dust-up in Indian-American relations.

One of the most important obstacles that Biden and Modi will have to navigate is in the military sphere. The 2005 civil nuclear agreement was a diplomatic breakthrough that lifted American sanctions related to India’s nuclear program and made a strategic partnership possible. Since then, the U.S. has designated India a major defense partner, stepped up sales of military equipment, and negotiated agreements with India to facilitate military logistical and communications coordination. India and the United States form half of the Quad, which is becoming a vitally important network for managing Indo-Pacific affairs.

Despite these promising developments, there are storm clouds on the horizon. Although India was a founding member of the non-aligned movement, it maintained close ties with the Soviet Union during the Cold War and still has close ties with Russia today. In October 2019, India agreed to purchase Russia’s S-400 anti-aircraft missile system and is set to receive the first set of deliveries toward the end of this year. The Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) requires the U.S. to sanction India for this deal, as NATO member Turkey found out late last year when it was sanctioned. The Trump administration told India that it was unlikely to get a waiver from the law.

Will the Biden administration show more flexibility? Russian propaganda activities during the 2016 election made a tough Russia policy a high priority for Democrats, and Biden has already made significant concessions to Moscow by waiving sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline in Europe and extending the New START arms control agreement. Moreover, the S-400 delivery will add significant complications to India-U.S. military cooperation and will probably prevent India from acquiring top-shelf American aircraft such as the F-35. However, these difficulties are likely to be worse if the U.S. imposes sanctions, so Biden might have to waive the sanctions and accept a hard limit on joint operations as the cost of the Indian decision.

Taking a longer view, boosting the Indian economy is very important for the United States. The OECD recently projected that India’s GDP will be nearly 9 percent lower in 2025 than it was expected to be before the pandemic, and Bangladesh recently surpassed it in GDP per capita. A wealthier India is a stronger India, and more growth would make it better able to stand up to China.

A larger Indian economy would also provide Western companies and investors an alternative to China, but only if Biden and Modi can reach an agreement on trade restrictions. Modi’s “Atmanirbhar Bharat” call for self-reliance does not bode well for a trade deal, nor does India’s last-minute decision to withdraw from the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) trade pact, which left Japan alone as the only counter to China in the agreement. India is also altering investment rules that will hurt U.S. companies even more than an earlier 2018 rule change did. Earlier this month, the U.S. announced tariffs on India and other countries for their new taxes on American tech companies, but also a 180-day delay to allow for a negotiated settlement.

The most dramatic showdown may come before that deadline passes. The 26th United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) will be held in the first half of November, and there could be fireworks in Glasgow between the U.S. and India. India is already the third-largest greenhouse gas emitter and its demand for energy will grow faster than any other country for the next two decades. It has accordingly ruled out a zero-emissions goal, which the energy minister has called “pie in the sky.” At Biden’s Earth Day summit, he and Modi announced a new green energy partnership, but Modi did not otherwise change any of the policies that are likely to lead to a 50 percent increase in emissions by 2040. If Modi holds firm in November, what will Biden do?

The military, economic, and climate policy controversies are already set on a fixed timeline, but tensions over democracy and human rights could flare up at any moment. While on the campaign trail, Biden expressed deep concerns about the Indian government’s treatment of its Muslim minority, particularly in Kashmir, as have prominent progressive Democrats like Senator Bernie Sanders. Muslims are not the only religious minority who could cause friction between U.S. human rights champions and the Hindu nationalist government, however: India has also cracked down on Christian organizations, such as the aid and development group Compassion International. If they intensify this activity, it could start to unsettle Christian leaders in the U.S., particularly Evangelicals who wield significant heft in the Republican Party. If New Delhi is not careful, it could break up the strong bipartisan support for the relationship (the Senate India Caucus has 31 members) and create instead a bipartisan opposition to closer ties.

Although many of the Indian elite speak English and the country shares with the United States a history of colonization by Great Britain, Washington has substantial disagreements with New Delhi that will be hard to manage. Nevertheless, the Biden administration has to get this right: India has the potential to be an important contributor to Asian security and prosperity, and this relationship is too valuable to lose.

Mike Watson
Mike Watson is the associate director of Hudson Institute’s Center for the Future of Liberal Society.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Jun 2021 17:37

Mike Watson is associate director of Hudson Institute’s Center for the Future of Liberal Society, directed by Distinguished Fellow Walter Russell Mead.

Before joining Hudson, Mike worked for Charles Krauthammer as a research assistant. Mike holds a B.A. in history from the University of Virginia and an M.A. in security policy studies from George Washington University, where he focused on U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and South Asia.


Lots of assumptions in the editorial piece. What matters is coming out of this pandemic and going full strong on domestic production and employment. India-US relations will be based on trade for the foreseeable future. As it is with the current US regime, India will slow down US defense acquisitions, but will maintain relations. All else is noise. The official nomination of Eric Garcetti will seal the deal that the administration is openly hostile to India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 25 Jun 2021 21:06

Judge keeps India terror attack suspect in US custody
https://apnews.com/article/india-health ... cd10a188a6
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A former Chicago businessman will remain in the United States as a federal judge in Los Angeles weighs whether he will be extradited to India for his alleged role in the 2008 Mumbai terror attack that killed more than 160 people.

Tahawwur Rana (tuh-HOW’-ur RAH’-nah), a Pakistani-born Canadian, is wanted by Indian authorities for his alleged involvement in the deadly attacks that are sometimes referred to as India’s 9/11. An Indian warrant for his arrest was issued in August 2018.
....
In 2011, Rana was convicted in federal court in Illinois of conspiracy to provide material support to terrorism in Denmark for a thwarted plot to attack a Danish newspaper to retaliate for its publication of cartoons that depicted the Prophet Mohamed in 2005. The cartoons angered many Muslims because pictures of the prophet are prohibited in Islam.

U.S. prosecutors, however, failed to prove that Rana had directly supported the Mumbai attacks. Rana’s defense attorneys, in court papers, say because he has been acquitted of the Mumbai-related charges in the U.S., extraditing him to India would be tantamount to double jeopardy.

Rana was sentenced to a 14-year prison term in Denmark-related case, but his punishment was reduced to time served in June 2020 after he claimed he had contracted the coronavirus in a federal California prison, court documents show. He was ordered released but was held on an immigration detainer so he could not return to Canada to avoid the Indian extradition request.

Headley ultimately testified against Rana in the Illinois case after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder. As part of his plea deal, he can’t be extradited to India.
...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vikramb » 26 Jun 2021 09:07

It's ridiculous for the US government to offer David Headley a plea deal with the condition that he cannot be extradited to India, when his crime took place in India and most of his victims are Indians. I wonder whether our Government protested this at that time.


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Najunamar » 30 Jun 2021 07:38

Is there a hiccup in getting the LA Mayor confirmed for the ambassadorship? The nomination of Atul Keshap for the CDA position seems to be a stalling strategy.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 30 Jun 2021 08:32

Najunamar wrote:Is there a hiccup in getting the LA Mayor confirmed for the ambassadorship? The nomination of Atul Keshap for the CDA position seems to be a stalling strategy.


There are many factors involved in this. US and Indian political consideration. The hope is to get Garcetti coming in to manage regime change before the April/May 2024 India General Election. That hope seems to be dashed as Garcetti knew of his staff's allegations of sexual harassment and corruption. Maybe he can't get cleared for a background investigation given the allegations, or maybe with this 2nd wave of Covid, the administration has slowed things down? For this administration, relations with Europe, China, and Japan are more important and India is on the back burner.

One of the things that any administration has to do is that they must inform the foreign government that a new ambassador is being nominated and they need to have his/her diplomatic visa approved beforehand. My hope and prayers are that the MEA is simply saying that they must examine Garcetti as Ambassador to India and look at all of his credentials before final diplomatic visa approval. That process may be continuing and the MEA may be asking detailed questions to the State Department for clarification. After all, Garcetti is not coming in through the already vetted career Foreign Service Officer diplomat position. He may not be denied a visa, but a written clarification of his current political positions, which affect India of course, may be requested. If Garcetti is nominated any time soon, then it means his diplomatic visa has been approved by the MEA. At that time it would be job of Indian-Americans to contact their US senators to oppose his nomination.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 01 Jul 2021 09:45

Even during Kangress sarkar, Obama/Hillary couldn't manage to get the much-celebrated Richard Holbrooke appointed as envoy for "Af-Pak-India" (as they had brilliantly planned).

India was able to quash the idea in 2 minutes... that too, India under the milquetoast PM Manmohan Singh, with a GDP of barely over $1 trillion. It's been more than a decade since then, and we are no longer that country.

Moreover, Holbrooke was a lifelong diplomat with much-vaunted credentials for brokering peace in the former Yugoslavia. Eric Garcetti is the woke mayor of a city with a gigantic homelessness & police-brutality problem, who is himself embroiled in sexual harrassment charges.

No way is he going to be the ambassador to India if Dilli does not want it. Indeed, it's hard to imagine a "regime change" plan by the Biden administration would be so facile as to depend on Garcetti's appointment.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Paul » 01 Jul 2021 13:19

Even during Kangress sarkar, Obama/Hillary couldn't manage to get the much-celebrated Richard Holbrooke appointed as envoy for "Af-Pak-India" (as they had brilliantly planned).


Whenever Holbrooke showed interest in visiting New Delhi the bureaucracy would mark themselves out of town. They got the message.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Cyrano » 01 Jul 2021 16:29

Atul Keshap latest Indian-American envoy to find favour with Biden administration

With the appointment of Atul Keshap as the US Chargé d’Affaires (CDA) ad interim -- replacing Ambassador Daniel Smith, who is retiring -- another person of Indian origin (PIO) will become the most visible face of diplomacy in New Delhi.
A senior career diplomat who joined the US foreign service in 1994, Keshap is no stranger in New Delhi and has previously served at the US embassy. He also served as deputy assistant secretary of state for South Asia in Washington DC. He served as the US Ambassador to Sri Lanka and the Maldives from 2015 when fellow Indian-American Richard Rahul Verma was the US Ambassador to India -- both men trace their roots to Punjab. Keshap’s father, Keshap Chander Sen, was from Punjab and was a UN development economist working in Nigeria, where the junior Keshap was born. His mother, Zoe Calvert, worked in the US foreign service and she, too, had served at the US embassy in Delhi.
"US president Joe Biden has been appointing several Indian-Americans to top positions and Ambassador Keshap’s appointment, which comes at a critical time, is a continuation of the same policy," R. Dayakar, a retired Indian diplomat, said. "It shows the high level of confidence that members of the Indian diaspora enjoy in America and the visibility that they have in top government positions including many in the US state department."

In Delhi, Keshap’s North American counterpart Nadir Patel -- Canada’s High Commissioner in India since 2015 -- is also of Indian origin. The latter's parents immigrated to Canada from Gujarat. "One’s Indian roots can be leveraged to gain a better understanding of India’s complexities and the linguistic and cultural diversity of the country. In that way, it can give someone like me an edge," Patel had said in an interview soon after presenting his credentials in Delhi.

Former US ambassador to India, Richard Verma, had presented his credentials to the Indian president on the same day as Patel. A former US assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs and a lawyer, Verma was handpicked by the then-US president Barack Obama to head the Indian mission just before his own high-profile Republic Day visit to India.

Verma, who is now the general counsel and head of global public policy at Mastercard in the US, recollected his father’s typical Indian-American immigrant story of arriving in New York City in 1963 with only $24 and a bus ticket to Northern Iowa.

Harinder Sidhu, a career diplomat who is now deputy secretary at service delivery group in the Australian government’s department of foreign affairs and trade, was high commissioner in India from 2016 to 2020. She had chosen the India posting at what she considered was a time when "the India-Australia relationship was at a high point". And despite having her hands full with managing one of Australia's largest overseas missions, she found time to explore her Sikh Punjabi family roots and heritage during her stint in the subcontinent.

Sidhu was, however, not the first Australian high commissioner of Indian origin in Delhi. Peter Varghese, whose parents had immigrated to Kenya first and then Australia from Kerala, arrived in India in 2009 as his country's top envoy. Varghese, who took charge at a time when there were widespread racist attacks against Indian students across Australia, had to deal with large scale media coverage during his first months in India. And though he travelled often to Kerala and his ancestral village to reconnect with his roots during his tenure in India, whether his Indian origin became an asset while dealing with contentious issues remains doubtful.

However, foreign policy experts feel that tapping into a pool of people of Indian origin for diplomatic assignments in India can have several advantages. "Envoys of Indian origin bring with them deeper cross-cultural empathy and understanding when they come on assignments to India. The art of understanding the nuances of diplomacy is usually beneficial for both the country that they represent as well as India," feels Robinder Sachdev, president of Delhi-based think tank Imagindia Institute and a co-founder of the US India Political Action Committee.

Even though some of the western countries haven’t sent too many diplomats of Indian origin for high-profile assignments in India, others such as Trinidad & Tobago, South Africa, Kenya, Fiji, Singapore, Malaysia, and Maldives have had many top diplomats in India for several years. An example is Nimisha J Madhvani -- Uganda’s current ambassador to the Nordic countries -- who was Uganda’s high commissioner to India between 2007 and 2014. A career diplomat herself, Madhvani belongs to a prominent Gujarati business family in Uganda.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Jul 2021 21:49

WSJ is reporting that India and China are now supporting the US on a global minimum tax including 130 countries. As usual, the devil will be in the details. I hope the GoI has given this detailed thought and analysis.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Haresh » 02 Jul 2021 16:04

75 AMERICAN HINDU TEMPLES AND SPIRITUAL ORGANIZATIONS WRITE TO RUTGERS UNIVERSITY EXPRESSING CONCERNS REGARDING PROFESSOR AUDREY TRUSCHKE’S ACTIONS

https://cohna.org/75temples-letter-rutgers/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby darshan » 02 Jul 2021 16:22

Aren't there like 75 Hindu jointsin like Eastern US alone? There are many notables missing that as in case of textbooks didn't join this list of 75. Defines Hindus and why Rutgers-like places aren't afraid.
Last edited by ramana on 03 Jul 2021 00:14, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited by ramana.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby ramana » 03 Jul 2021 00:15

darshan, you are making egregious posts and creating problems. Am banning you for a week.
Ned to control your language.
ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Amber G. » 03 Jul 2021 02:24

Najunamar wrote:Is there a hiccup in getting the LA Mayor confirmed for the ambassadorship? The nomination of Atul Keshap for the CDA position seems to be a stalling strategy.

FWIW - My impression of the delay is general delay because of difficulty of 'senate confirmation' .. which is sort of held hostage to (un)usual partisan bickering..there are a few ambassadorships which may be brought for confirmation sometime later..

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby venkat_kv » 07 Jul 2021 00:43

Mort / Rudradev Saar,
what is your take on sending mostly persons of Indian origins as ambassadors. Is it to help with furthering their agenda more easily (as it might be easier to snub Holbrooke, rather than say "one of our own") due to residual family connections.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vera_k » 07 Jul 2021 00:54

It is one of the advantages that the USA has as a country of people from around the world. A similar tack was taken with China not too long ago.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 07 Jul 2021 01:23

venkat_kv wrote:Mort / Rudradev Saar,
what is your take on sending mostly persons of Indian origins as ambassadors. Is it to help with furthering their agenda more easily (as it might be easier to snub Holbrooke, rather than say "one of our own") due to residual family connections.


I don't think it's an issue. If the US tried appointing some Raghuram Rajan type as an ambassador, for example, and GOI was not happy with his/her perceived political biases-- MEA would communicate clearly to the State Dept that such a person will not be acceptable, and that would be that. A clear-thinking MEA given immunity from domestic attempts at influence is what is needed, and by and large I think India has that.

On the contrary, I think we hold an even higher card if we reject a Naxal-sympathetic candidate of Indian descent. It shows at least that the rejection is not based on the person's race or ethnicity.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chola » 07 Jul 2021 01:39

venkat_kv wrote:Mort / Rudradev Saar,
what is your take on sending mostly persons of Indian origins as ambassadors. Is it to help with furthering their agenda more easily (as it might be easier to snub Holbrooke, rather than say "one of our own") due to residual family connections.


vera_k wrote:It is one of the advantages that the USA has as a country of people from around the world. A similar tack was taken with China not too long ago.


Except for Verma and the possibility of Keshap, the ambassadors to India had all been white men and womem from the Foreign Service corps or political appointees, some of whom like Galbraith and Blackwill were your basic powerful white men who had a lot of influence in Washington during their time. Galbraith especially was a Democratic institution who advised Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy and Johnson and as an economist helped formulate a lot of the liberal "war on poverty" policies. Blackwill served on the National Security Council after India with a special responsibility for Iraq after the US invasion there.

Same for China, most of them were powerful white men almost exclusively former senators or governors in recent years -- Sasser, Baucus, Huntsman, Branstad. Even the one ethnic Chinese ambassador, Locke, was a former governor.

Maybe there will be a new trend but historically, they've been white and mostly Anglo -- just look at the names. There is a wee remnant of colonialism in the need to shock and awe with the white sahib for important countries in the South.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 07 Jul 2021 01:59

One more thing to recognize is that Ambassadorships in the US are often given out as "favours" (much in the way ministerial berths are traditionally handed out in Indian central and state governments). The President rewards various high-profile donors, political allies, party functionaries, lobbyists and so on with these prestigious assignments. This is why they have a strong tendency to be white males in their 50s-plus with long careers either in Washington DC, state capitols, or corporate America.

This actually works in India's (and other similar countries') favour most of the time. Imagine if the ambassadorships went instead to academicians, university types, think-tankers, or policy wonks-- people with little experience of the transactional world, who instead have ideology coming out of their ears. The kinds of people who end up being appointed typically are guys who know the art of compromise and want above all else to smooth the way for doing business.

One problem with Garcetti is that he is definitely of the problematic class. His "foreign policy" experience is 100% academic-- he studied "ethnicity and nationalism" for his PhD at the London School of Economics. From here he took the fast train to the ideologically-driven activist route: sitting on the board of Human Rights Watch etc. He has never had to do business in foreign environments where shooting your mouth off has a price associated with it. Rather, his political CV involves being a City Councilman, State Senator, and Mayor in California-- all of which encourage the irresponsible boosting of identity politics and left-wing ideological grandstanding as the means to achieve short-term gains.

This is why in 2018 Garcetti went to Riyadh and lectured Mohammed Bin Salman about Jamal Khashoggi's death, the war in Yemen, the Saudi/UAE blockade of Qatar (red flag right there) and of course "human rights abuses"... ironic indeed, given that MBS has presided over unprecedented increases in the civil rights of ordinary Saudis. Garcetti did all this simply because it was the flavour of the month in the Blue States to bash Saudi Arabia and UAE (for daring to improve relations with Israel under Trump's purview).
Last edited by Rudradev on 07 Jul 2021 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby venkat_kv » 07 Jul 2021 02:14

Rudradev wrote:
venkat_kv wrote:Mort / Rudradev Saar,
what is your take on sending mostly persons of Indian origins as ambassadors. Is it to help with furthering their agenda more easily (as it might be easier to snub Holbrooke, rather than say "one of our own") due to residual family connections.


I don't think it's an issue. If the US tried appointing some Raghuram Rajan type as an ambassador, for example, and GOI was not happy with his/her perceived political biases-- MEA would communicate clearly to the State Dept that such a person will not be acceptable, and that would be that. A clear-thinking MEA given immunity from domestic attempts at influence is what is needed, and by and large I think India has that.

On the contrary, I think we hold an even higher card if we reject a Naxal-sympathetic candidate of Indian descent. It shows at least that the rejection is not based on the person's race or ethnicity.


Thanks Rudradev Saar for indulging my question? But my query was more towards what is the US thinking with these appointments and not what our MEA response typically is/should be. The MEA to their credit has moved with speed on certain issues while dragged on the others.

So my question is more on what is US thinking on these appointments (its fairly obvious that they would like to further their goals) but is the Indian origin people just a means to the end or are they truly trying to pick the best among the lot and promote the new mantra of "diversity"/or have the Indian American diaspora come of age (divisions within them notwithstanding regarding various Dharmic causes) .

Edit: added later just saw Rudradev Saars post above about appointment so that answers a bit of my question regarding the appointment of the entrenched ambassadorships.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rudradev » 07 Jul 2021 02:29

Venkat-kv ji, I don't think the US honestly believes that appointing an "Indian Origin Person" as ambassador somehow enhances their ability to convince GOI of anything.

In the 1970s (after the Civil Rights movement had drawn attention to the plight of Black Americans, but also improved their lot through political reforms)-- there used to be a joke in the State Department. Whom to send as an Ambassador to the newly-independent countries of Sub-Saharan Africa? If you send a white Ambassador, the leaders of those countries will get upset about a gora fellow coming and lecturing them about "human rights and democracy" like a colonial massa. If you send a black Ambassador, the same leaders will still get upset-- because you think so little of their country that you're sending a second-class citizen!

Ultimately it's all cosmetic-- worth a week or so of headlines in the host country, if that. Things MAY have been different when you had the Maino-Manmohan Sarkar; at that time the US appointing particular individuals (with, as you mentioned, family connections) would have been grounds for suspicion. The Maino parivar has always done business through its networks of patronage, its web of family and retainer connections, with the end goal of enriching itself and enhancing its own power... India's interests be damned. So if the US ambassador was some Indian-American known to have connections to Chidambaram or Kapil Sibal, that would have been reason to worry.

But in the event, even Richard Verma arrived only in 2015 when the Mainos were out, so we did not have this kind of reason to worry about him. Obama probably picked him because of the "diversity" thing you mentioned. It didn't make much difference one way or the other... policy towards India was decided in Washington, and Verma only implemented whatever part of it came under his purview.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Karan M » 07 Jul 2021 03:40

So is that Garcettis appointment to India confirmed or dropped? Great summary Rudradev.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby vera_k » 07 Jul 2021 11:11

In limbo. State department nominees have a procedural block at the moment.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chola » 07 Jul 2021 18:41

Yes, there is obviously a major leftist academic component to Garcetti (my own parents are leftist academics lol.)

But being the mayor of a massive international city like Los Angeles for 8 years cannot help but drive a good dose of pragmatism into him. No American city can run efficiently without working corporate America.

To be honest, I think he will be good for India. One, in spite of BR jingos' view of the American left they are more accepting of Indian diversity and poverty than the American right -- think of Kissinger and Nixon. Two, he is high profile and a prominent member of the Democrats courtesy of years as the mayor of the second largest city in the US and the home of Hollywood and the center of US media (along with New York.)

Yes, we worry about his ideological stance especially in regards to Modi and BJP but again I think being the mayor of Los Angeles makes him far more pragmatic than assumed.

Come on, an ambassador who once ruled the land of Hollywood? It has a nice touch of glamor that also reflects the importance of the position.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Pratyush » 07 Jul 2021 19:18

When it comes to LA. They are having issues with "trans females" exposing male genitalia in front of other women and minors.

With laws which state that people have the right to declare which gender they are a part of. No need to have a medical opinion.

Anyone who is administering such a city. Should never be welcome in India.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby chetak » 07 Jul 2021 19:53

Pratyush wrote:When it comes to LA. They are having issues with "trans females" exposing male genitalia in front of other women and minors.

With laws which state that people have the right to declare which gender they are a part of. No need to have a medical opinion.

Anyone who is administering such a city. Should never be welcome in India.



he is as woke as they come.

someone like this can only be trouble for India.

So easy for such guys to go off the reservation and make common cause with JNU, shaheenbagh, and hurriyat types, especially after the removal of 370 and 35A

we have suffered such cartoons before and paid the price.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby hnair » 07 Jul 2021 20:28

chola wrote:Yes, there is obviously a major leftist academic component to Garcetti (my own parents are leftist academics lol.)

But being the mayor of a massive international city like Los Angeles for 8 years cannot help but drive a good dose of pragmatism into him. No American city can run efficiently without working corporate America.

To be honest, I think he will be good for India. One, in spite of BR jingos' view of the American left they are more accepting of Indian diversity and poverty than the American right -- think of Kissinger and Nixon. Two, he is high profile and a prominent member of the Democrats courtesy of years as the mayor of the second largest city in the US and the home of Hollywood and the center of US media (along with New York.)

Yes, we worry about his ideological stance especially in regards to Modi and BJP but again I think being the mayor of Los Angeles makes him far more pragmatic than assumed.

Come on, an ambassador who once ruled the land of Hollywood? It has a nice touch of glamor that also reflects the importance of the position.


chola, You are here after a self imposed hiatus and that is appreciated. There is no going back to good old days - so please be nice.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Rsatchi » 08 Jul 2021 19:03

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 233233.cms
Soo Much for the Hyooman Rights!!!
Unkil leaving vulnerable women in the lurch.
NYT or WSJ very silent on this
Want India to scrap CAA and allow ROPers from Burma???/Afghanistan/and the rest.
And the desi liberandus are quiet as well.
Burkha/Dhoti roy/Ghosh Lady/Sherwani Kurtha??? all very quiet
And the islamists US reps where are they??

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 Jul 2021 01:25

https://rebellionvoice.com/was-sacking- ... o-say/amp/

Was sacking of Nambi Narayanan a Biden-led international conspiracy? Here’s what CBI has to say

S Vijayan and Thampi S Durga Dutt, two retired Kerala police officers who were members of the Special Investigation Team (SIT) and were involved in the arrest of former ISRO scientist Nambi Narayanan in a 1994 espionage case, were denied bail on Wednesday by the CBI.

They wrongly accused him of being involved in a “fabricated case,” causing India’s cryogenic technology to be delayed.

Was sacking of Nambi Narayanan a Biden-led international conspiracy? Here’s what CBI has to say

S Vijayan and Thampi S Durga Dutt, two retired Kerala police officers who were members of the Special Investigation Team (SIT) and were involved in the arrest of former ISRO scientist Nambi Narayanan in a 1994 espionage case, were denied bail on Wednesday by the CBI.

They wrongly accused him of being involved in a “fabricated case,” causing India’s cryogenic technology to be delayed.

The CBI told the Kerala High Court that the two accused “played an active role and invented an espionage case in pursuance of the conspiracy with the other accused in the FIR (filed by CBI) and other unknown people” and that the charges against them were severe.

The false accusation leveled against Nambi Narayanan had a significant impact on the development of cryogenic technology, heightening the gravity of the crime.

For about two and a half years, the panel reviewed the case’s developments, which resulted to Narayanan’s detention.

ISRO Deputy Director D Sasikumaran and Fousiya Hasan, a Maldivian acquaintance of Rasheeda, were both arrested at the same occasion.

The court, on the other hand, repeatedly declared the procedures taken against the ISRO scientist to be “psycho-pathological treatment.”

The CBI had already arrested 16 other top police personnel, including Intelligence Bureau (IB) officers in Kerala, as part of its investigation into Narayanan’s death.

They were also charged with several offenses under the Indian Penal Code, including criminal conspiracy, kidnapping, and evidence forgery.

The case had political ramifications as well, with a group of Congress politicians targeting then-Chief Minister late K Karunakaran over the matter, leading to his resignation.

According to The Economic Times, the CBI has cause to suspect that if they are given interim bail, they will refuse to participate with the inquiry and “derail the pace of the investigation.”

This is consistent with the premise of international participation in the same.

The conspiracy notion dates back to the 1990s, when India sought $250 million from the Russian Orbit Agency, Glavkosmos, for cryogenic technology that would have been useful in missions requiring heavier satellites traveling deeper into space.

When he dubbed the Indo-Russia agreement for the supply of two cryogenic engines to India “dangerous,” Joe Biden proved to be the biggest saboteur of India’s ambitious space program.

“I am certain that the Russian officials would understand the prudence of canceling this deal once they perceive the risk of losing,” Biden stated at the time, according to TFI.

“This is not a little sale; this is dangerous,” he had added. The reality remains that Biden’s attempt to deny India Cryogenics had no missile component.

At the time, it was pure geopolitical maneuvering on the side of the Democrats.

Joe Biden attempted to sabotage the space program of a democratic country such as India just to advance pro-Pakistan sentiments within the US administration at the time.

In the end, the US agreed to enable Russia to equip India with seven cryogenic engines. However, no technology transfer was permitted, jeopardizing India’s ambitious space goal.

Cryogenic technology, which involves handling fuel at low temperatures to provide the extra thrust required for a rocket to deliver hefty satellites over longer distances, has been difficult for India to develop.

As a result of Joe Biden’s sabotage in 1992, India suffered significant losses and had to postpone its space program by several years, if not decades.

Scientists are the strongest pillars of a nation, hence the gravity and severity of this crime should not be overlooked.

Officials who are responsible for inflicting such a traumatic effect by falsely accusing a scientist and delaying India’s cryo-tech development must face legal consequences.

By submitting its findings to the Kerala High Court, the CBI appears to be well on its way to proving that Nambi Narayanan’s dismissal was the result of an international conspiracy, potentially led by US Vice President Joe Biden.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby Ambar » 10 Jul 2021 03:48

Well, it is now official, Biden picks Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti as the next ambassador to India. Lets brace ourselves for posturing, lecturing, pontificating on hooman rights, religious rights, farmers rights, minorities rights on a daily basis.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Postby g.sarkar » 10 Jul 2021 05:22

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... r-n1273583
Biden nominates L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti to serve as U.S. ambassador to India
If confirmed, he would leave behind a mixed record as the city struggles with a homelessness crisis and sexual harassment allegations within his office.
Alicia Victoria Lozano, July 9, 2021

LOS ANGELES — President Joe Biden has nominated Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti to serve as U.S. ambassador to India, ending months of speculation whether the two-term mayor would land a role within the Biden administration.
"I am honored to accept his nomination to serve in this role," Garcetti said in a statement. "I love Los Angeles and will always be an Angeleno."
.....
Gautam


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