Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

Qin is not coming here to cool down the tensions with India. He is coming to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Russia and pushback any US/Western efforts on Ukraine. GoI must not give any bilateral credence to Qin's visit except to the extent of his multilateral involvement. The Chinese would attempt to massage our ego, but the EAM is not the person to fall for that.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

It is not only the first direct ascent ASAT test in 2007 that Li Shangfu was associated with. More importantly, the May, 2013 test in which a Geo-stationary satellite was targeted. Three more tests were done in October 2015, July 2017 and February 2018. by likely DN-3 systems. The DN-2 missile was supposed to have entered operational service by c. 2020. DN-2 was meant for the communications satellites and the SBIRS sats. Of course, there is not much to choose between ASATs and ABMs.

But, his elevation also shows the enormous importance that XJP has placed on aerospace ever since he came to power. The DN-2 test was conducted soon after XJP assumed power. He asked PLAAF in April 2014 “to speed up air and space integration and sharpen their offensive and defensive capabilities’. Two years from that speech, speaking in the first Space Day of China, XJP said, “Becoming an aerospace power has always been a dream we’ve been striving for.” If Hu Jintao is credited with PLAN, then XJP is credited with China's space force.

The Space Systems department of PLASSF handles the all important space situational awareness details and space warfare. The Directed Energy Weapons (DEW), RF Jammers, Kinetic Kill Vehicls, Lasers to dazzle & blind and even destroy enemy space assets, Robotic arms to grab and destroy space-based objects, chemical sprays to degrade sats etc all fall under the scope of activities of PLASSF's Space Systems Department. Its Network Systems Department handles electronic & cyber warfare.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by Cyrano »

Well, in the press meet after the G20 FM's conference, EAM while responding to a question said that he did meet the Chinese FM for about 45mins and told him the relations are not normal and peace and tranquillity at the borders are a pre-requisite for the rest. So no change in our position, its as expected.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

Empty containers stack up at major Chinese ports after zero-COVID effect lingers
Major Chinese container ports Shenzhen and Shanghai are seeing a massive growth in the number of empty containers, according to two shipping industry sources, social media footage and a global container tracking website, suggesting a huge slump in manufacturing exports.

Photos of container ports at Shanghai and Shenzhen seen by Radio Free Asia revealed a large number of empty containers stacked up, with remaining storage space for empty containers rapidly dwindling at ports, according to a container ship captain who has worked in the industry for 20 years.

In the week beginning Feb. 27, the Container Availability Index, or CAx, stood at 0.65 when queried for 20-foot dry storage containers -- the most common kind of shipping container -- in the port of Shanghai.

Anything above 0.5 indicates that more containers are entering a port than leaving it, and Shanghai's score has stood above that level for 45 weeks straight, the index showed.

A query for the eastern port of Qingdao showed the CAx had remained around 0.6 since the start of the year, and hadn't dropped below 0.5 during the whole of 2022. Shenzhen wasn’t among the cities available on a selection menu for the index.

‘Rollercoaster ride into hell’

Meanwhile, Shanghai's export container shipping price index stood at U.S.$946.68 on Feb. 24 after a 14-month decline, the lowest point since 2015.

“In the three years since the start of the zero-COVID policy, the entire Chinese shipping industry has gone from normal to stratospheric, before taking a rollercoaster ride into hell," the captain said.

He said that as the initial wave of the COVID-19 pandemic prompted widespread lockdowns around the world, the demand for goods skyrocketed, sending the cost of shipping up four- or fivefold.

But by the start of 2022, as the rest of the world returned to normal levels of activity, costs fell again, and the ruling Chinese Communist Party's strict enforcement of lockdowns, quarantine and mass testing of the zero-COVID policy dealt a mortal blow to the country's economy, he said.

It's a story that has been echoed many times over to Radio Free Asia by economic and legal sources in Shenzhen, amid warnings that a slump at Chinese manufacturers making everything from electronics to clothing is already sparking a wave of labor unrest.

A person in the shipping industry said operators' margins are being squeezed by the massive fall-off in demand for outbound shipping.

"The direction of the flow of goods has reversed," the person said. "I have always said that the Shanghai lockdown was a turning point for China."

"There has been a sharp fall in exports of steel products and complete sets of equipment," the person said. "I used to make more than U.S.$50 [in bulk cargo] per ton, and now it's a little over nine dollars."

"China's three years of zero-COVID has been a disaster for the shipping industry, which is now running at massive losses," the person said. "Daily running costs for a 10,000-ton vessel are about U.S.$5,000."

Some production moving to Southeast Asia

He said the Shanghai lockdown in the spring of 2022 in particular had severely damaged economic and business confidence in China.

"For example, the production of steel billets has now been relocated to Vietnam and Indonesia, where new factories have been built," the person said.

"Most of the businesses relocating are owned by domestic capital -- it's local Chinese businesses that are relocating their manufacturing facilities."

An official who answered the phone at the Shenzhen municipal transportation bureau said the government has fixed prices for the stacking, loading, unloading and lifting of containers.

The lifting fee for a single container is set at 27 yuan, the official said, but declined to comment further.

An employee who answered the phone at Shanghai Port headquarters said the port was operating "normally," and declined to comment on the number of empty containers.

"I don't have the specific information; we're not sure about that, OK?" the employee said, before hanging up.

A major freight forwarder told China's Caixin news site that the return flow of empty containers has mostly been higher than the number of filled containers leaving Chinese ports, and that this has been the case since the fourth quarter of 2022.

Twitter user @JosephZheng777 tweeted on Feb. 21: "Shenzhen Yantian International Container Terminal is empty," adding a video clip of a mostly empty multilane highway, which bore the subtitle "No trucks at the side of the road, and no trucks at the port."

@thestranger515 tweeted a video on Feb. 18, describing it as "Long lines of empty trucks at #Shenzhen Yantian International Container Terminal," before adding: "The Chinese economy is in the Toilet."
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by Cyrano »

Weak EU economies won't help improve Chinese exports either. The era of wasteful frivolous consumption is leaving us due to high energy prices knocking some sense into people.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

A book that addresses the historical divisions of China and the re-unification.

Divided China: Preparing for Reunification 883-947
Wang Gungwu

The oneness of China is the norm. Periods of divisions are aberrations. This is how Chinese thinkers, leaders and ultimately the majority of Chinese people have regarded Chinese politics and history for more than 2,000 years. The oneness was never perfect. As long as certain minimal conditions were met and the polity which proclaimed that oneness was widely acknowledged, that was enough. Chinese ruling elites adopted this pragmatic approach so they could ensure that the ideal could always approximate China s reality. This is a revised edition of a study undertaken to explain what happened during one of the worst periods of division in Chinese history. What were the key factors that helped the centripetal forces to get back to the imperial norm? It begins with the final stage of decline of the Tang dynasty (618-907) and ends 50 years later when it became clear that the foundations for a last push towards unification were in place.
We need to understand that even if there wasn't XJP there would be a drive toward reunification with Taiwan.
The two china solution is one of the pragmatic approaches under Deng Xiaoping.

The complication is Taiwan was conquered by Kiangzi, Qing Emperor, and not in the ancient past.
And we have US in East Asia after Commodore Perry's sojourn.
And the US feels the end of its East Asia foothold if Taiwan gets re-unified.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

I submit Bharat Varsha unity is also a historical norm. It was not a perfect unity as kingdoms rose and fell and faraway regions broke off politically but culturally were united.
The political schism also resulted in religious schism due to conquest.
The BJP triumph in North East shows that religious schism has been overcome.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

Cyrano wrote:Weak EU economies won't help improve Chinese exports either. The era of wasteful frivolous consumption is leaving us due to high energy prices knocking some sense into people.
The Chinese have said that the Global South will compensate for the Collective West. Some in the West have said that China planned this move a while back.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote: We need to understand that even if there wasn't XJP there would be a drive toward reunification with Taiwan.
The two china solution is one of the pragmatic approaches under Deng Xiaoping.

The complication is Taiwan was conquered by Kiangzi, Qing Emperor, and not in the ancient past.
And we have US in East Asia after Commodore Perry's sojourn.
And the US feels the end of its East Asia foothold if Taiwan gets re-unified.
The japs used taiwan as one of the launch points in their invasions of china

The thought and also the fear (however impractical it may be) of such a thing happening again is present in the cheeni calculations.

It is a bone stuck in their han throats.

The hans can't remove it nor can they hope that someone else will help them to remove it.

All the noise, on both sides, is from the barking of chained dogs.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

Li Qiang: China's new premier and Xi loyalist - AFP
Li Qiang, one of Xi Jinping's most trusted allies, was confirmed as Chinese premier on Saturday.

Li was appointed to the seven-member Standing Committee of the Politburo -- the country's highest echelon of power -- at the Communist Party's 20th Congress last October, ranking second in the leadership after Xi.

The ascension of the former Shanghai party chief had previously seemed in doubt after his handling of the financial hub's two-month lockdown last spring, in which residents struggled to access food and medical care.

"If proof were needed that loyalty trumps meritocracy in Xi's China, Li Qiang's elevation provides it," said Richard McGregor, a senior fellow at the Lowy Institute in Sydney.

"Li might be quite capable, and may make a good premier, but it is hard to see how he got there other than through Xi's personal favour."

Domestically, however, Li is seen by many as an approachable leader with a matter-of-fact manner.

Hu Shuli, the founder of the reputable financial magazine Caixin, described Li as "low-key and pragmatic" after he interviewed Li in 2013 when he was governor of Zhejiang, his home province.

A colleague of Li's from Zhejiang told local media in 2016 that Li was "especially good at listening to and incorporating views from all parties when making decisions".

Business-friendly

Although it is not unusual for former Shanghai chiefs to be promoted to the party's top ranks, unlike almost all previous premiers, Li does not have experience working at the central government level.

Li, who started his career as an irrigation pump station worker near his hometown, does have rich local administration experience.

His three decades spent working in the Yangtze Delta, the country's economic powerhouse, earned him a business-friendly reputation.

He progressed steadily through the leadership levels, and was promoted to affluent Zhejiang's top job in 2012.

He is credited with supporting the rise of the province's digital economy and later in his career, championing US electric vehicle giant Tesla's Shanghai production centre.

Li has openly talked about his admiration for entrepreneurship in the past.

"We in Zhejiang are very excited and proud to have Alibaba and Jack Ma in Zhejiang," he told a press conference in 2014.

"But there should be more Alibaba and more Jack Ma."

In recent years though, China's technology industry has been hit by a sweeping crackdown, and Ma retreated from public view after a public speech in 2020 accusing financial regulators of stifling growth.

Trusted by Xi

Li's links to China's most powerful leader in generations go back to the early 2000s when he was chief of staff to Xi, then party boss of Zhejiang.

Li was later parachuted into Jiangsu by Xi in 2016 after a corruption scandal took down several provincial officials.

The following year, Li was appointed the party secretary of Shanghai -- a sign of the president's high degree of trust in him.


Now, in his capacity as premier and head of China's cabinet, the State Council, he will be responsible for the day-to-day running of the country, as well as macroeconomic policy.

"(Li) was seen as a business-friendly local leader but it's questionable whether these skills will translate well to overseeing macroeconomic coordination and regulatory agendas as premier," said Neil Thomas, senior China analyst at Eurasia Group.

China recorded merely three percent annual GDP growth last year -- its slowest in four decades excluding pandemic-hit 2020.

Despite the rebound from a post-Covid reopening, Li is still facing a difficult uphill battle.

He needs to stabilise the economy, defuse risks in the financial system, address the country's collapsing property market and reassure consumers and investors at home and aboard.

But his loyalty to Xi is viewed by some analysts as an impediment to making his mark in solving these problems and a way for the president to assert his own economic agenda.

The previous premier, Li Keqiang -- a trained economist -- had his attempts at financial reforms curtailed by Xi's overwhelming authority.

Steve Tsang, director of the SOAS China Institute, said that despite being the president's "trusted lieutenant", the new premier's ability to push through policies is still limited.

"Xi will give Li Qiang more scope to run the State Council but on the basis that Li Qiang will do what Xi wants and not go beyond the perimeter set by Xi," he said.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

Wang Huning elected chairman of China's top political advisory body
Wang Huning was elected chairman of the 14th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), the country's top political advisory body, on Friday.

Wang was elected at the third plenary meeting of the first session of the 14th CPPCC National Committee by over 2,100 political advisors.

Wang was born in 1955 in east China's Shandong Province.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

Predictions in October have come true.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by chetak »

Now that xi has consolidated his position and got his trusted aides in place.......

xposted from the geopolitics thread


is this the next item on the agenda.......

The ameriki war stores have been largely expended, stocks with their allies are in no better state and the screwed up situation in ukraine is none the nearer, as far as a solution goes


Image
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

China reshuffles Cabinet, appoints new vice-premiers but keeps central bank chief - Straits Times
China reshuffled its Cabinet on Sunday and appointed new vice-premiers while keeping its economic team tasked with helping President Xi Jinping and newly minted Premier Li Qiang steer a slower-growing economy amid increasing global uncertainties.

The National People’s Congress approved a proposed Cabinet line-up on the second last day of Parliament’s annual full session, naming four vice-premiers, five state councillors, the top state planner, the central bank governor and other members of the State Council.

Mr Xi, 69, who secured an unprecedented third five-year term as president on Friday, has stacked the Cabinet with his men to try to get the country’s Covid-19-ravaged economy back on track, while boosting sagging investor confidence following government crackdowns on the private sector – from tech titans to property developers – in recent years.

Mr Li, 63, who was confirmed as premier on Saturday and is a trusted political ally of Mr Xi, and his new team will take their cue from the President to jump-start the world’s second-biggest economy amid worsening relations with the United States, which considers an increasingly assertive China a threat and rival.

Domestically, dealing with high youth unemployment, at about 17 per cent at the end of last year, and a record 11.58 million graduates who will flood the job market this year, is also a headache for policymakers.

On Sunday, Parliament endorsed Mr Ding Xuexiang, Mr Xi’s right-hand man, as executive or No. 1 vice-premier, entrusting him to help manage the domestic economy.

Although Mr Ding has no experience with running a province nor handling economic matters, he has worked in various branches of the party apparatus and is adept at coordination.

An engineer by training, Mr Ding, whose first job was at the Shanghai Research Institute of Materials, could play an important role in driving China’s push for technological self-reliance in the face of US chip sanctions.

At 60, Mr Ding became the youngest member of the Communist Party of China’s (CPC) 20th Politburo Standing Committee – the apex of power in the nation – during the CPC’s national congress in October 2022.

Of the seven Standing Committee members, he is the only one born in the 1960s.

The other three vice-premiers sit in the party’s 24-member Politburo, one notch below the Standing Committee.

Newly appointed Vice-Premier He Lifeng, 68, another Xi loyalist who was formerly the top state planner, is expected to be the new economic czar, taking over from retired Mr Liu He, who was instrumental in managing the US-China trade war.

Mr He, who has a doctorate in economics, rose through the ranks in Fujian province, where he worked for 25 years, including with Mr Xi in Xiamen when the latter was vice-mayor in the 1980s.

The other two vice-premiers are former Liaoning provincial party secretary Zhang Guoqing, 58, and former Shaanxi provincial party secretary Liu Guozhong, 60, both highly capable technocrats whom Mr Xi now favours to help fulfil his ambitions of making China a techno-superpower.

As part of the Cabinet reshuffle, aerospace engineer and People’s Liberation Army general Li Shangfu, 65, was named defence minister, taking over from General Wei Fenghe, who has retired.

Former Anhui party secretary Zheng Shanjie, 61, will take over from Mr He as the country’s top economic planner.

But practically all other Cabinet members retained their positions, signalling the leadership’s desire for continuity.

Most notable is the surprise retention of central bank governor Yi Gang, 65, and Finance Minister Liu Kun, 66.

Both men had been expected to step down after reaching the retirement age of 65 for ministers.

Commerce Minister Wang Wentao, 58, also kept his position, and as did Mr Ma Xiaowei, head of the National Health Commission, which had been responsible for China’s Covid-19 response.

In a possible sign that his handling of the pandemic was not well-received, Mr Ma chalked up the most number of votes against his reappointment on Sunday when delegates balloted for the heads of 26 ministries and agencies under the State Council.

Twenty-one parliamentarians did not endorse him for another term, while eight abstained and 2,917 voted in favour.


CHINA’S NEW CABINET

Here are the five men who now sit at the top of the State Council:

Mr Li Qiang, 63

Premier

Mr Li, the former Shanghai party leader, skipped the traditional intermediary step of serving a term as vice-premier before becoming premier. Despite having no experience in the central government system, and also having been seen to have bungled Shanghai’s Covid-19 response last year, he was hand-picked by President Xi Jinping to be his No. 2. With Mr Xi’s trust, he could be given more room to manage the economy.

Mr Ding Xuexiang, 60

Executive Vice-Premier

Formerly Mr Xi’s chief of staff, Mr Ding lacks experience with running a province but has worked across various departments within the party apparatus and is one of Mr Xi’s most trusted aides. He started as a research fellow at the Shanghai Research Institute of Materials, and worked his way up the party ranks in Shanghai.

Mr He Lifeng, 68

Vice-Premier

Mr He, China’s former top economic planner, and Mr Xi go back decades when they served together in Xiamen. Mr He, who has a doctorate in economics, takes over from Mr Liu He as China’s new economic czar. As the previous head of the National Development and Reform Commission, Mr He oversaw major infrastructure investments to boost the country’s economic growth.

Mr Liu Guozhong, 60

Vice-Premier

Formerly the party secretary of Shaanxi, Mr Xi’s home province, Mr Liu trained as an engineer and had early in his career worked for Mr Li Zhanshu, previously the third-ranked Politburo Standing Committee member and a Xi ally. He could be given the public health portfolio vacated by just-retired vice-premier Sun Chunlan, who spearheaded China’s Covid-19 response.

Mr Zhang Guoqing, 58

Vice-Premier

Formerly the party secretary of Liaoning province, Mr Zhang belongs to a class of technocrats whom Mr Xi has filled the current wider Politburo with. Mr Zhang was previously mayor of Chongqing and Tianjin, and also chief executive of state-owned military contractor North Industries. He has a doctorate in economics from Tsinghua University, and could be tasked with overseeing industrial policy.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

Security is the foundation for China’s development: President Xi - Straits Times
Security will continue to be imperative for China’s development, said President Xi Jinping on Monday as he laid out his priorities for an unprecedented third term.

Speaking at the closing ceremony of the annual legislative meetings, Mr Xi also called on the country to be self-sufficient in science and technology, amid the United States’ blocking of China’s access to chip-making equipment and other cutting-edge technologies.

“Security is the bedrock of development, while stability is a prerequisite for prosperity,” he said, adding that the military will build a “Great Wall of steel” to guard the nation’s interest.

China must have a comprehensive, systematic approach to ensure national security, Mr Xi told nearly 3,000 delegates.

“(We must) increase our ability to protect national security, raise public security and safety standards, perfect social governance systems and ensure our new developmental patterns are in line with our security aims.”

On Taiwan, which China claims as its own, Mr Xi said Beijing must oppose pro-independence and secessionist activities and the interference of external forces, in a veiled reference to increasing American support for the island.

He also stressed the need to adhere to the one-China principle and the 1992 Consensus, actively promoting the peaceful development of cross-strait relations, but making no mention of reserving the right to unify Taiwan by all means possible.

The 1992 Consensus is a tacit agreement that both sides of the Taiwan Strait are part of one China, though what that means is open to different interpretations.

In a speech lasting just over 15 minutes, Mr Xi alluded to the challenging international environment, but did not directly mention the US.

“China’s development benefits the world, and China’s development cannot be separated from the world,” he said.

Mr Xi also vowed to strengthen supervision of the Communist Party of China (CPC) so that it “never changes its nature and colour”, an indication that his signature anti-corruption campaign will stay.

With the country facing a Covid-19-ravaged economy, growing wealth and income gaps as well as a declining population, he called for “reasonable” economic growth with a focus on improving the quality of that expansion.

New policies should prioritise boosting domestic demand, driving innovation and self-reliance in science and technology, upgrading the industrial sector and promoting low-carbon development, he said.

This was also touched on by new Premier Li Qiang during his press conference on Monday, saying that China will work towards enhancing its capacity in science, technology and innovation.

“We will make greater efforts… to create a new pattern for development and concentrate our efforts on promoting high-quality development,” he said.

Mr Li also pledged to create a better business environment for private companies in China, urging the government to form closer ties with entrepreneurs.


The parliamentary meetings over the past week, which saw the National People’s Congress (NPC) vote to officially confirm government positions, completed the leadership transition started at the CPC’s Party Congress in 2022.

During the twice-in-a-decade meeting in October, Mr Xi had stacked the Politburo Standing Committee – the pinnacle of power in China – with loyalists, including Premier Li.

On Friday, the NPC unanimously endorsed Mr Xi as president and head of the Central Military Commission, cementing his position as China’s most powerful leader since Mao Zedong.

Beginning in the late 1970s, Chinese leaders had sought to separate party and state, sharing power between the president and the premier. This was to ensure that no one person had too much power in his hands in a bid to prevent a repeat of the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, while ensuring a two-term limit.

This was scrapped by Mr Xi in 2018.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by chetak »

Xi seems to have ordered for himself a bunch of new clothes, including a crown and an ermine cape

will India have to wary of the new sovereign....

Image

President Xi Jinping called Monday for China to play a bigger role in managing global affairs after Beijing scored a diplomatic coup as the host of talks that produced an agreement by Saudi Arabia and Iran to reopen diplomatic relations.

Xi gave no details of the ruling Communist Party’s plans in a speech to China’s ceremonial legislature. But Beijing has been increasingly assertive since he took power in 2012 and called for changes in the International Monetary Fund and other entities it says fail to reflect the desires of developing countries.

China should “actively participate in the reform and construction of the global governance system” and promote “global security initiatives,” said Xi, the country’s most powerful leader in decades.

That will add “positive energy to world peace and development,” Xi said.


https://apnews.com/article/china-congre ... a87ae8f26a
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

The topic of rich Americans finding it hard to extract their wealth from China is increasing.

I am also trying to find a good source for the White House investigating Sequoia Capitals for investing in Chinese AI, quantum computing, etc.

Meanwhile,

lWHITE HOUSE-LINKED VENTURE CAPITAL FUND BOASTS CHINA WAR WOULD BE GREAT FOR BUSINESS
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

XJP writes in Russian press before his visit to Moscow.

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1637 ... z28yg&s=19
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

We are not covering XJP summit with Putin here?
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

Xi's write up for Russians:
Chinese President Xi Jinping wrote:
At the invitation of President Vladimir Putin, I will pay a state visit to the Russian Federation. 10 years ago, my first foreign visit after being elected to the post of President of the People's Republic of China was made precisely to Russia. Within 10 years I have already visited Russia 8 times. Thanks to these trips, which always give great pleasure and results, President V.V. Putin opened a new chapter in the chronicle of Sino-Russian relations.

China and Russia are the largest neighbors, strategic partners of comprehensive cooperation, leading world powers and permanent members of the UN Security Council. Both countries are pursuing an independent and independent foreign policy, and consider relations between China and Russia as one of the main priorities in diplomacy.

Sino-Russian relations are developing according to a clear historical logic and on a powerful internal driver. For 10 years, bilateral cooperation has been developing dynamically in all azimuths and is entering a new era with confident steps.

Contacts at the highest and highest levels play an important role and are of enduring strategic importance.

Perfect mechanisms for exchanges and contacts at a high and top level, an extensive structure of multifaceted cooperation serve as an important systematic and institutional support for the development of bilateral relations. Over the years, President V.V. We maintain close working ties with Putin. During more than 40 meetings at bilateral and international venues, we prioritize practical cooperation in all areas, timely synchronize watches on topical international and regional issues of mutual interest, and set the tone for the sustainable development of bilateral relations.

The parties are continuously strengthening political mutual trust, creating a new paradigm of relations between major powers.

China and Russia adhere to the concept of eternal friendship and mutually beneficial cooperation. Bilateral relations are based on the principles of non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-direction against third parties. The two countries firmly support each other in following the path of development according to national realities, in the implementation of development and revival. Mature and stable bilateral ties are constantly gaining new strength and serve as a benchmark for a new type of interstate relations characterized by mutual respect, peaceful coexistence and mutually beneficial cooperation.

My upcoming visit to Russia is aimed at strengthening friendship, cooperation and peace. I am ready, together with President Vladimir Putin, to outline new plans and measures in the name of opening up new prospects for China-Russia relations of comprehensive partnership and strategic cooperation.

The parties form the architecture of comprehensive and multi-vector cooperation.

Thanks to joint efforts, trade turnover in 2022 amounted to a record $190 billion and increased by 116 percent compared to 10 years ago.

For 13 consecutive years, China has positioned itself as Russia's largest trading partner. The volume of mutual investments between the two countries continues to grow. A number of strategically significant cooperation projects in the field of energy, space, aviation and transport connectivity are being successfully implemented.

Interaction in such new industries as scientific and technological innovation and cross-border e-commerce maintains high dynamics. Interregional cooperation is rapidly gaining momentum. All this not only brings real benefits to ordinary people, but also gives an inexhaustible impetus to the development of both countries.

The parties are implementing the concept of friendship passed down from generation to generation, and traditional friendship is growing day by day.
On the eve of the 20th anniversary of the Treaty of Good Neighborliness, Friendship and Cooperation between China and Russia, President V.V. Putin decided to extend and fill the agreement with new content, taking into account the new realities of the time. The successful holding of 8 thematic cross years brings friendship and cooperation to new heights. The peoples of our countries provided material and moral support to each other in the fight against the coronavirus, which was another evidence of how "friends in trouble are known."

The parties closely cooperate in the international arena and bear great responsibility as great powers.

China and Russia firmly uphold the UN-centric international system and the world order based on international law, as well as the fundamental norms and principles of international relations based on the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, carry out close coordination and interaction within the UN, SCO, BRICS, G20 and others international platforms, make joint efforts to promote multipolarity and democratization of international relations.

The parties are taking effective steps to implement genuine multipolarity, develop universal human values ​​and stand for the formation of international relations of a new type and a community of common destiny for mankind.

For more than 70 years, Sino-Russian relations have come a very difficult path. Looking back, we deeply realize that the current level of Sino-Russian relations was not easy, and the unfading friendship between China and Russia should be carefully maintained.

History and practice show that in the context of global turbulence, Chinese-Russian relations have stood the test of strength due to the fact that we have embarked on the right path of establishing interstate ties.

My upcoming visit to Russia is aimed at strengthening friendship, cooperation and peace. I am ready, together with President Vladimir Putin, to outline new plans and measures to open up new prospects for China-Russia relations of comprehensive partnership and strategic cooperation.

The parties should focus on comprehensive planning with a focus on national development objectives, an innovative approach to open up new opportunities and cultivate new drivers. It is important to build mutual trust and unleash potentials in order to maintain the stable dynamics of Sino-Russian relations at a high level.

The international community is well aware that no country in the world is superior to all others. There is no universal model of government and there is no world order where the decisive word belongs to an individual country

It is necessary to promote the parallel expansion of the volume and quality of investment and trade and economic cooperation, strengthen political coordination, create more favorable conditions for the high-quality development of investment cooperation, increase the scale of bilateral trade, expand common interests and seek new growth points, form a development structure that is complementary and compatible traditional trade and new forms of cooperation, to continue joint work on pairing the Belt and Road Initiative and the EAEU for institutional support of bilateral cooperation and regional integration.

It is necessary to deepen cultural and humanitarian ties, organize the Years of Cooperation in the field of physical culture and sports at a high level, unlock the potential of the mechanism of interregional cooperation, intensify contacts between sister cities, regions and cities, encourage human exchanges, restore tourism cooperation between the two countries, hold such events, as a summer camp, a joint educational institution in the interests of the continuous strengthening of friendship and mutual understanding between peoples, primarily through the youth.

Profound changes are taking place in the modern world. Peace, development, cooperation and win-win is an unstoppable historical trend. Multipolarity, economic globalization and democratization of international relations are an irreversible trend.

At the same time, both traditional and non-traditional security challenges are rapidly growing. Actions of hegemony, despotism and persecution cause serious harm to the world. There is a very long way to go to restore the world economy. The international community is sounding great alarm, more than ever they need ways out of the crisis.

In March 2013, I spoke at MGIMO and mentioned that "the interconnection and interdependence of all countries has reached an unprecedented high level. Humanity lives in one global village, becoming a close community of a single destiny."

The Belt and Road Initiative, the Global Development Initiative, the Global Security Initiative and the Global Civilizations Initiative that I later put forward, became a useful filling of the essence of the concept of a community with a common destiny for mankind and the means of its implementation, which served as the Chinese version of an adequate response to the changes in the world, era and history.

China and Russia are the largest neighbors, strategic partners of comprehensive cooperation, leading world powers and permanent members of the UN Security Council. Both countries pursue an independent and independent foreign policy, consider relations between China and Russia as one of the main priorities in diplomacy.

For 10 years, universal human values ​​such as peace, development, equality, justice, democracy and freedom have been deeply rooted in the hearts of people. More and more countries are united by a common desire to build a clean and beautiful world, where lasting peace, universal security, common prosperity, openness and tolerance will reign. The international community is well aware that no country in the world is superior to all others. There is no universal model of government and there is no world order where the decisive word belongs to a single country. Solidarity and peace on the planet without splits and upheavals meet the common interests of all mankind.

Since the beginning of last year, there has been a total aggravation of the Ukrainian crisis. On the basis of the essence of what is happening, China has always taken an objective and impartial position, and has made active efforts to promote reconciliation and peace negotiations.

The set of visions I have voiced serve as China's founding principle in the Ukrainian settlement. This, in particular, is about the need to comply with the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, respect the reasonable concerns of all states in the field of security, support all efforts aimed at a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, and ensure the stability of global production and supply chains.

The recently published China's Position on the Political Settlement of the Ukrainian Crisis, taking into account the rational concerns of all parties, reflects to the maximum the unity of the world community's views on overcoming the Ukrainian crisis.

The document serves as a constructive factor in neutralizing the consequences of the crisis and promoting a political settlement. Complex problems do not have simple solutions.

We are convinced that a rational way out of the Ukrainian crisis and a path to lasting peace and universal security in the world will be found if everyone is guided by the concept of common, comprehensive, joint and sustainable security, and continue dialogue and consultations in an equitable, prudent and pragmatic manner.

Before solving global problems, you need to settle your own affairs. The Communist Party of China, rallying and leading the Chinese people, comprehensively strives for the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation through Chinese modernization, which is distinguished by the coverage of a huge population, the achievement of universal prosperity, the coordinated development of material and spiritual culture, the harmonious coexistence of man and nature, following the path peaceful development.

These distinctive features of China are formed on the basis of many years of practice and deep generalization of international experience. We will resolutely promote the cause of Chinese modernization, make efforts to realize high-quality development, and steadily expand external opening up. I am convinced that this will provide new opportunities for all countries of the world, including Russia.

The year starts with spring, and success starts with deeds. There are good reasons to believe that China and Russia, as fellow travelers in development and revival, will make a greater contribution to the progress of human civilization.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

Heard their meeting went on for about 5 hours!!!
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

Actually 4.5 hours and tomorrow is more of the same.
Its a working summit.
Putin side said they will examine China's Ukraine Proposal.
US interjected its not acceptable.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

^ Very incisive analysis by Jayadev Ranade which is quite agreeable.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

We do not seem to realize how much the friction between India and China has increased.

We have heard Jaishankar state that the relationships cannot return to normal until the border disputes are resolved. And, per Dr. J the Chinese agreed to a game plan and have not implemented it.

Now we hear Ranade state:

16:10 {Nitin} Indian elections next year then the
16:12 elections will also play a part in his
16:15 decision making if he wants to keep the
16:17 country in Balance I mean off balance or
16:20 the leadership in India to be under
16:22 pressure maybe that is a window that he
16:24 would look at {Ranade} yeah quite right in fact
16:26 they have been saying it that
16:29 um you know till next uh middle of next
16:32 year is a window when they have
16:35 been saying that
16:38 India's rise and they put a date on it
16:40 they said after 2014 so that only means
16:43 okay the present government having it
16:45 so the India's rise is something that
16:48 bothers them and they have been
16:50 quite explicit about that in India in
16:53 their analysis by the
16:56 Chinese Institute for contemporary
16:58 international relations which is
17:00 actually the 11th Bureau of the ministry
17:02 of State security {Nitin} okay so they've also
17:04 come out with this officials {Ranade} almost
17:05 official and um you know this uh by
17:09 saying uh things like this yes what they
17:12 are saying is actually that the problem
17:13 is not just the Border it is the
17:16 government and its Ambitions and also
17:20 yeah and so that is yes that's where it
17:24 is


IMO, there is a smaller window before the Indian elections next year: G-20 AND SCO, when Xi can act. To prove himself inside China, Xi needs to sabotage at least one.

Furthermore, Xi will have to come up with a very neat trick to justify occupying Indian territory and project himself as a peacemaker. While Xi has Putin's support on Taiwan, wonder how he will justify any military action against India.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by NRao »

From the same video:

This is a surprise to me, frankly. I do not think Russian hardware is inferior in any way. IMO Russia, in UKR, has not rolled out it's Sunday best - preferring to wait for NATO to arrive:
22:39 {Ranade} it's I think the
22:41 serious concern and should be a serious
22:43 concern but for two reasons one is uh I
22:47 think Russia itself its capacity is
22:50 getting degraded capacity to produce
22:53 military hardware
The following (bold) I totally agree. I have said this before India needs to pile up arms. It is OK to talk about representing the Global South, etc, but not arming herself under the present global predicament is criminal IMO.
which we have been
22:55 buying is getting degraded and I think
22:57 it's timely that we started diversifying
23:00 it's also timely that we are now started
23:03 individualizing our reference production
23:05 I think we need to speed it up here and
23:07 I think I mentioned at one of the
23:09 programs earlier the I don't see why we
23:12 need to take so much time to produce one
23:14 aircraft or whatever you should be
23:16 rolling them out you know if necessary
23:18 double the number of lines and have more
23:20 people it will help the unemployment
23:22 problem that's one
I disagree with this too. Today, China is the junior partner. China needs Russia (for Taiwan, etc). For Russia, China is good to have, not a necessity.
23:22 ........ the second
23:26 I think Russia getting subordinated it
23:30 is already to an extent dependent on
23:31 China financially it depends on China
23:35 for labor in in its East is depending on
23:38 the China for consumer goods so uh
23:41 whether we say it or not this dependency
23:44 will mean the channel will start
23:47 dictating to it more
23:49 uh it may not happen right now but it
23:51 will happen and the Chinese tendency
23:53 also is such that they will not treat it
......
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:Its a working summit.
China is extracting concessions from Russia for its 'peace proposals' which in their current form are unacceptable to UKR and its supporters.
China's proposals are not going to fly because UKR's allies, especially the US, cannot accept anything coming from China. Russia knows that too but needs the Chinese 'peace proposals' to show the world that it tried genuinely and it is the other side that hasn't responded. For China, this is another opportunity to showcase its new stature of being a 'global mediator and peace-maker' though we know that in the Iran-KSA deal China did nothing and it was plainly fortuitous. Again, Russia-UKR deal is also nothing serious by China but just taking advantage of the situation.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

So it is all kabuki summit.
Let us peel the onion or Matryoshka dolls and find out what really happened.
We won't know except by actions.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

For China, this is another opportunity to showcase its new stature of being a 'global mediator and peace-maker' though we know that in the Iran-KSA deal China did nothing and it was plainly fortuitous.

Well, Ukraine War allowed Russia to sell its oil at a discount which reduced KSA markets.
China saw the opportunity to diversify from Russian oil through this deal.
While it is fortuitous, it also needs savvy to recognize an opportunity and act.
Houthis have already stopped attacks on KSA. That's an immediate gain for KSA.
Iran got back out of isolation in West Asia.
UAE invited Syria back into Arab nations.
Suddenly 'peace' is breaking out in West Asia.

Russia said will accept Yuan as an exchange currency for Russian trade.
So there are changes that could kick-start larger events.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:Well, Ukraine War allowed Russia to sell its oil at a discount which reduced KSA markets.
China saw the opportunity to diversify from Russian oil through this deal.
Sure, but that's what countries of the size of China or India dependent on external supply of oil would do. So did India. I would put India ahead of China in this because China doesn't face pressure from the US and its allies like the way India faces. The big-time loser is KSA, first with the US shale oil business which depressed KSA’s market-share and now the discounted Russian oil sale to the two top-tier economies of the world, India and China. Somehow, Russia, being a co-chair of OPEC+, has been able to keep KSA cool but for how long can it last?

Geography accords China a singular advantage vis-à-vis Russian energy transportation and hence the cross-border sale. And yet, China is careful not to anger the US by flouting sanctions so far.
While it is fortuitous, it also needs savvy to recognize an opportunity and act.
Yeah, I agree. But then, the US was no longer on the scene (in any case, the US involvement in Yemen has been so confusing) and that left China as the only country of stature that the two nations could turn to. The Khashoggi affair, the fear that KSA would not be getting military hardware from the US, the fatigue of a long-drawn out campaign, the frequent Houthi attacks on KSA (most of which had been successfully countered but some got through) were taking a toll on the Saudis coupled with uncertainties on the oil & gas front. Iran had economic woes, internal strife, sanctions etc and it too was bleeding while Yemen was an unwanted front. So, the two had been at it to find a way out since the last two years. Whether China forced itself in the process or whether it was co-drafted by the warring parties is something not known yet. Time will tell. Unlike the US, the Chinese do not want to unnecessarily get involved in other things such as Human rights, religious freedom, labour laws etc. But, again, they are only taking baby steps in IR now and when they get involved more deeply everywhere, they could end up similar to the US, perhaps. The ‘Middle Kingdom’ role (IOW, the unipolar role that China covets from the US) requires compromises, power projections, issuing threats and acting on them, pacifying diametrically opposite interests and players and the whole works of similar nature. The Chinese cannot achieve ‘Middle Kingdom’ status based solely on the inflexible characteristic that they have exhibited in the last 2500 years or by simply undertaking Zheng He-type voyages.
Houthis have already stopped attacks on KSA. That's an immediate gain for KSA.
That's true but that had come earlier with UN-brokered peace deal, almost a year to this day. There have been no attacks since then. China was never in the picture at that time.

Here, I have to mention the enormous success of the American Patriot Pac-2/3 systems against Iran-supplied Houthi ballistic missiles. My rough estimate is over 95% success rate. Since KSA is a large country and since it couldn’t deploy them everywhere, the penetration occurred in those unprotected places. And, the US stopped military supplies to KSA in 2021 which led to exhaustion of Pac-2/3 and more successful Houthi attacks which later led to their limited resumption by the US in early 2022. While Stingers are reputedly tied to the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan, one can say that Pac-2/3 saved Saudi Arabia from Iran’s Burkhan-2 scud-type missile.
Suddenly 'peace' is breaking out in West Asia.
India should welcome peace, especially in its neighbourhood, especially among friends, especially between countries that are important for Indian economy and security, and most especially in a region where a large Indian diaspora live.

That said, it is too early to say much about peace. Already, the Iranian government lodged a strong protest against XJP’s statement in Ar Riyadh that Iran must not enrich etc. China may be forced to say something against KSA, as a balancer, later on from Tehran - probably something to the effect of KSA stopping the persecution of the Shi'a in Dhahran, Jubail etc on the oil-rich east coast. Last year there was a mass execution of the Shi'a here. So, welcome to the club, PRC.
So there are changes that could kick-start larger events.
Of which, there can be no doubt.
ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1144
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ricky_v »

https://archive.is/TJL46
ft article, title: China grants billions in bailouts as Belt and Road Initiative falters
A study published on Tuesday shows China granted $104bn worth of rescue loans to developing countries between 2019 and the end of 2021. The figure for these years is almost as large as the country’s bailout lending over the previous two decades.
Between 2000 and the end of 2021, China undertook 128 bailout operations in 22 debtor countries worth a total of $240bn.
Image
However, there are big differences between IMF programmes and Chinese bailouts. One is that Chinese money is not cheap. “A typical rescue loan from the IMF carries a 2 per cent interest rate,” said the study. “The average interest rate attached to a Chinese rescue loan is 5 per cent.”


China’s lending is in two forms. The first is through a “swap line” facility, where yuan is disbursed by the People’s Bank of China, the central bank, in return for domestic currency. Around $170bn was disbursed in this way. The second is through direct balance of payments support, with $70bn pledged, mostly from state-owned Chinese banks.


The American Enterprise Institute, a Washington-based think-tank, has put the value of China-led infrastructure projects and other transactions classified as “Belt and Road” at $838bn between 2013 and the end of 2021.
Several projects became cause célèbre for how not to undertake development lending. An infamous $1bn “road to nowhere” in Montenegro remains unfinished and dogged by corruption allegations, construction delays and environmental issues.
“White elephants” such as Sri Lanka’s Hambantota port and Lotus Tower are seen as symptoms of the country’s debt crisis, while more than 7,000 cracks were found in an Ecuadorean dam built by Chinese contractors near an active volcano.
ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1144
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ricky_v »

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202303/1 ... b46df.html
xjp speech 13.03.23
Full text of Xi Jinping's speech at first session of 14th NPC
chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2023-03-14 20:55
Speech at the first session of 14th NPC

March 13, 2023

By Xi Jinping

Fellow deputies,

I was elected at this session to continue to serve as the president of the People's Republic of China (PRC). I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for the trust placed in me by all the deputies and the Chinese people of all ethnic groups.

It is my third time to take on this noble position of the president of the PRC. The people's trust has been my greatest source of strength to go forward and also the greatest responsibility on my shoulders. I will faithfully fulfill the duties prescribed in the Constitution, take the needs of the country as my mission and the people's interests as the yardstick to follow, be committed and honest in my duties, devote myself to my work without reserve, and never fail to live up to the great trust of the deputies and the people.

Fellow deputies,

The Chinese nation, with a civilization spanning over 5,000 years, has created a myriad of glories and also been through a lot of hardships and adversity. With the advent of modern times, China was reduced to a semi-feudal and semi-colonial society, being bullied, oppressed and divided by foreign powers, and the Chinese people being plunged into an abyss of great suffering. Since its founding, after 100 years of struggle, the Communist Party of China (CPC) has closely united and led the Chinese people of all ethnic groups to wipe out the shame of the nation, the Chinese people have become the masters of their future, the Chinese nation has achieved the great transformation from standing up and growing prosperous to becoming strong, and that China's national rejuvenation has become a historical inevitability.

From now until the middle of the century, the central task of the Party and all Chinese people is to complete building China into a great modern socialist country in all respects and advance national rejuvenation on all fronts. And the baton of this central task has now been historically passed on to our generation. In accordance with the strategic plans made at the 20th CPC National Congress, we must implement the Five-Sphere Integrated Plan and the Four-Pronged Comprehensive Strategy, speed up the Chinese modernization, strive in unity, and continue to break new ground, so as to make achievements on the new journey that answer the call of our times and history and meet the expectations of our people, and make due contributions of our generation to building a great country and achieving national rejuvenation.

Fellow deputies,

On the new journey to build China into a great country and to achieve national rejuvenation, we must unswervingly promote high-quality development. We must fully and faithfully apply the new development philosophy on all fronts and accelerate the efforts to foster a new development pattern. We must fully implement the strategy for invigorating China through science and education, the workforce development strategy and the innovation-driven development strategy, and focus on achieving greater self-reliance and strength in science and technology. We must also promote transformation and upgrade of industries, promote coordinated urban-rural and regional development, make further efforts to build a green and low-carbon economy and society, and effectively upgrade the quality and appropriately expand the output of our economy, so as to constantly increase our economic strength, scientific and technological capabilities and composite national strength.

We must remain committed to putting the people and their lives first. The people are the decisive force for building China into a great modern socialist country in all respects. We must proactively develop whole-process people's democracy, uphold the unity between the Party leadership, the running of the country by the people and law-based governance, improve the system of institutions through which the people run the country, substantiate the people's will, protect their rights and interests and fully inspire their enthusiasm, initiative and creativity. We need to implement a people-centered philosophy of development, improve the system of income distribution, perfect the social security system, and enhance basic public services. We must ensure that the basic living needs of all our people be met, and work hard to resolve the pressing difficulties and problems that concern them most. We must do a better job of seeing to it that the gains of modernization benefit all our people fairly, and make more notable and substantive progress in promoting prosperity for all. We must strengthen the great unity of the Chinese people of all ethnic groups and the great unity of all the sons and daughters of the Chinese nation at home and abroad, thus mobilizing all positive factors to give shape to a mighty joint force for building a great country and advancing the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.

We need to better coordinate development and security. Security is the foundation of development and stability is the prerequisite for prosperity. We must resolutely pursue a holistic approach to national security, improve the national security system, strengthen our capacity for safeguarding national security, enhance public security governance, and improve the social governance system. With this new security architecture, we will be able to better safeguard China's new pattern of development. We should comprehensively promote the modernization of our national defense and our armed forces, and build the people's military into a great wall of steel that can effectively safeguard our nation's sovereignty, security and the interests of our development.

We should solidly promote the practice of "One Country, Two Systems" and the great cause of national reunification. The long-term prosperity and stability of Hong Kong and Macao special administrative regions is indispensable to the building of a great China. We should fully, faithfully, and resolutely implement the policy of "One Country, Two Systems", under which the people of Hong Kong administer Hong Kong and the people of Macao administer Macao, both with a high degree of autonomy. We will remain committed to law-based governance in Hong Kong and Macao and will support Hong Kong and Macao in developing their economies and improving people's livelihood, so that they can better integrate themselves into the overall development of the country. Realizing China's complete reunification is a shared aspiration of all the sons and daughters of the Chinese nation as well as the essence of national rejuvenation. We should implement the Party's overall policy for resolving the Taiwan question in the new era, uphold the one-China principle and the 1992 Consensus, actively promote the peaceful development of cross-Strait relations, resolutely oppose foreign interference and separatist activities aimed at "Taiwan independence", and unswervingly promote progress towards national reunification.

We must strive to promote the building of a community with a shared future for mankind. China's development benefits the world, and China cannot develop itself in isolation from the world. We must solidly promote high-level opening up, not only making good use of the global market and resources to develop ourselves, but also promoting common development of the world. We must hold high the banner of peace, development, and win-win cooperation, always stand on the right side of history, practice true multilateralism and the common values of mankind, actively participate in the reform and development of the global governance system, and promote the development of an open world economy. We should promote the implementation of Global Development Initiative and Global Security Initiative, so as to add more stability and positive energy to world peace and development, and create a favorable international environment for our country's development.

Fellow deputies,

To do a good job of governing the country, the Party should do a good job of governing itself. To promote the building of a great country, it is essential to uphold the leadership of the CPC and the centralized, unified leadership of the CPC Central Committee, and to step up Party building in a solid manner. We must remain sober-minded and resolved about addressing the challenges unique to a big political party as ours, and have the courage to carry out self-reform. We must unceasingly exercise full and rigorous Party self-governance, unswervingly fight against corruption, and always maintain the unity and solidarity of the Party. By doing so, we will be able to ensure that the Party will never change its nature, its conviction, and its character, which will serve as a strong guarantee for building a great country and advancing national rejuvenation.

Fellow deputies,

The grand goal of building a great country and achieving national rejuvenation is encouraging and motivating. We should seize the hour and seize the day, remain confident in our history, exhibit greater historical initiative, uphold fundamental principles and break new ground, maintain strategic resolve, carry forward the fighting spirit, and strive to overcome all difficulties, to contribute to the great cause of building China into a great country and achieving national rejuvenation.

Thank you.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

ricky-v,
Thanks for the full text.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

Interesting title for this mapping of New China

https://www.readingthechinadream.com/ne ... cians.html
Maps - New Confucians
China's New Confucians are a relatively new intellectual category in mainland China. The institutional support for traditional Confucianism collapsed with the abolition of the imperial examination system in the early 20th century, and its fate was further sealed when the iconoclasts of the May 4th era identified Confucianism as the main representative of the Chinese "tradition" that was keeping China backward.

Over the course of the 20th century, Confucianism esssentially followed two paths: one led to universities, first in China, later in the Chinese diaspora, where a small number of highly intelligent and committed Chinese intellectuals attempted to redefine or rework Confucianism so that it could contribute to the needs of China's modernization; the other led back to China's villages and families, for which Confucianism remained a body of moral and ethical principles. After the Communist revolution in 1949, both of these paths were essentially shut down in China, although "Confucians" were found in philosophy departments and "respect for elders" remained a virtue to be embraced except in moments of revolutionary fervor.

Today's New Confucians were part of a wave of cultural conservatism that rose first in the 1980s, as a reaction to a broad enthusiasm for all things Western. Over the course of the 1990s, New Confucians became one of the three main groups of intellectuals in China, with a focus on traditional Chinese culture and civilization, while the New Left sought to renew socialism and Liberals promoted markets and constitutions. The radical rupture Chinese intellectuals had made with tradition in the 1920s meant that there was much to discover, much to relearn, and much to appreciate. All traditions are to some extent "invented," as Eric Hobsbawm rightly noted, and this is certainly true in the case of the Chinese New Confucians.

These New Confucians took this "invention" a step further over the past few years when they consciously broke with their counterparts in the Chinese diaspora, and began calling themselves "Mainland New Confucians." This rupture was caused by the perception that the diaspora New Confucians--previously viewed as mentors--were too tied to the project of modernity. Impressed by China's rise, the Mainland New Confucians wanted something more expressly Chinese, and they also wanted to revive Confucianism's institutional heritage, either by changing the structure of China's government, or by founding a Confucian religion. In other words, Mainland New Confucians are self-consciously political, and at the beginning of Xi Jinping's mandate hoped to infuse the China Dream with Confucian flavors. My impression is that this has not worked out as they had hoped.

{On the contrary, XJP is the first disciple of the New Confucians in my view. He is implementing "Marxism with Sinic Characteristics" in the Confucian authority model. IOW he is nativizing Marxism}

New Confucians have received considerable attention in Western scholarship. In part, this is because of the impact of the diaspora New Confucians, which had a certain influence in the West. In part, this is because the writings and proposals of the leading mainland New Confucians--such as Jiang Qing and Kang Xiaoguang--are quite brazen in their calls for major changes to Chinese institutions. Many of the writings of these "conservative dissenters" are already available in English, so I have worked less on them.
sanman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2304
Joined: 22 Mar 2023 11:02

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by sanman »

ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1144
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ricky_v »

ramana wrote:ricky-v,
Thanks for the full text.
all good ramana sir
i also agree with your point of the new-confucian mapping, xjp seems to be angling for it, the site owner seems a bit biased against xjp or the new confucians in any case, though it is still early reading from me whether this is due to deterioration in polity discourse under his watch or whether something entirely different, still overall, i would say that the site is golden, gives us meaty insight into the chinese intelligentsia without the helpful optics of the west.
Ge Zhaoguang, “Imagining 'All Under Heaven:' the Political, Intellectual
and Academic Background of a New Utopia”

His destruction of the tianxia myth is thorough (even in this somewhat abbreviated version of his text). First, Ge asserts, there is no real certainty that anything like what tianxia defenders claim ever existed in China’s past. These defenders insist that tianxia refers to a fundamentally different way to view the world and international relations based on culture, shared values, and mutual acceptance, rather than the “dog eat dog” world of Social Darwinian competition that defines the current world order.

Ge points out that, despite some evocative language in ancient texts, classical tianxia ideas always emphasized distinctions between inner and outer, Chinese and “barbarian,” even if, perhaps, such distinctions were not as racialized early in Chinese history as they later came to be. Nor was China’s traditional empire as “familial” as certain tianxia theorists like to claim, as peoples on China’s peripheries can readily attest.

Tianxia, Ge argues, is in fact more important to China’s future than to China’s past. The rediscovery of tianxia was a product of China’s rise and the heady notion that the 21st century might be China’s just as the 20th was that of the United States and the 19th that of Great Britain. Should “China’s moment” be at hand, she needs an international model to complement Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, which champions the China solution see as having succeeded where both American neo-liberalism and Soviet communism failed (see here for the translation of a text of one of these champions), and tianxia, with its promise of harmonious relations and mutual accommodation might be just the ticket. Hence Ge Zhaoguang argues, as does Liang Zhiping in his much longer piece on tianxia, that the debate is all about ideology.
For the last decade or so in China, a future world utopia has been repeatedly written about—this utopia is called “All Under Heaven” or the “Chinese world order 天下”.[2] From a philosophized “world system 天下體系,” to a politicized “world order 天下秩序,” to a conceptualized “Sinocentrism 天下主義,” not only has such discourse been abundant but it has been very influential.[3] This influence has been especially great as more and more people have come to question the validity of the present world order led by the United States. Under these conditions, some people have asserted that a “Chinese world order” as a substitute program could bring fairness, equality and peace to the international world of the future.
There is one interpretation of tianxia that is most full of imagination. That is the idea that the ancient Chinese “All Under Heaven” offers a certain historical experience for our modern world because it was a world in which the “ten thousand nations lived in peace and harmony 万邦协和.” As Guo Yi 郭沂 writes: “If we want to realize genuinely stable unity in the political and cultural realms, we must employ the stance of Confucian Sinocentrism and implement the Kingly Way 王道 in government and the tianxia program.”[4]


Is there any historical evidence for such ideas about the ancient Chinese tianxia? Not at all. We already have considerably abundant relevant historical sources for and much modern scholarship on the ancient Chinese concept of so-called “All Under Heaven.” Japanese scholars, from Ogawa Takuji 小川琢治 and Abe Takeo 安部健夫, down to the most recent Shinichirō Watanabe 渡辺 信一郎, and Chinese scholars Xing Yitian 邢义田 and Luo Zhitian 罗志田 have all written about the historical problem of tianxia. All of their writings emphasize one key point: the ancient Chinese tianxia always involved “us” and “the other,” “inner” and “outer,” “Hua 华” (Chinese) and “Yi 夷” (non-Chinese)—that is simply “China” and its “four borders.”

In reality, if we examine ancient classical texts, we will learn that ever since the Three Dynasties (Xia, Shang, Zhou), outside of the “central states” controlled by the King were the “four frontiers” where his influence could not reach.

Thus the “Royal Regulations 王制” in the Classic of Rites (Liji 礼记), an early Han text, set down the rules for a unified “All Under Heaven”: “The central states 中国, the barbarians 戎夷, and the peoples of the five directions 五方之民 all have their own particular natures and they cannot be changed.” [7]

Did ancient China, then, possess a tianxia in which “far and near, large and small are all one” and all compatible and harmonious? Perhaps. Some such ideas are contained in the “Ceremonial Usages 禮運” chapter in the Liji, the “On Standards and Rules 法儀” chapter of the Mozi, the “Teachings of the Ru 儒效” chapter of the Xunzi and other literary sources, and there are those who maintain that they reflect ancient Chinese thought about the Great Unity 大同. One can, of course, call it “thought,” but it would be more appropriate to call it “idealism.” At best this ideal tianxia only existed in the “intellectual writings” of scholars, but it did not exist in the “political reality” of Chinese history.
Even the “Rectifying Theses 正論” chapter of the Xunzi says that no matter what, all the states of Xia Chinese 诸夏and the barbarians had to be clearly differentiated. If the barbarians did not submit to China, then military force had to be used to settle the matter. As the Classic of History 尚书 says: “The King put on his armor and All Under Heaven was completely pacified.”[9] If it were not for military strength, where would the power to pacify All Under Heaven come from? Even scholars who advocate “Sinocentrism” are forced to admit that “in reality the ancient Chinese empire 中国帝国 was actually quite far from the ideal of a “Celestial Empire 天下帝国.”
The ancient Chinese clearly expressed the main tendency of All Under Heaven as follows: “When we are in decline, then they flourish; when we flourish, then they decline; when they flourish, then they invade across our borders, and when they decline, then they submit to our teaching and instruction.”[10]


They even go so far as to assert that “this is the reason why Chinese thought could never give rise to a concept of ‘heresy’ like that in the West, nor could it, for the same reason, give rise to a form of nationalism with such clearly and categorically defined boundaries as in Western history.” “All Under Heaven,” they claim, transcended “nations” (states, countries, 国家) and “deserves to be called a harbinger of a perfect world system.”[11]
First, let us examine “the rise of China” as the political background of Sinocentrism. At first tianxia zhuyi may have only been the opposite of “nationalism 民族主义;” that is, it was put forth as a synonym for “globalism 全球主义.” But in 1996 Sheng Hong 盛洪 published his essay formally proposing the concept of tianxia zhuyi or Sinocentrism, only he emphasized it as “starting a challenge to the fairness and moral legitimacy of the international order led by the West.”


Although I should explain that perhaps Sheng Hong does not necessarily identify himself with nationalism, what is interesting is that his dissatisfaction with it stems from his belief that Chinese nationalism “is an insufficiently pure nationalism” and even more because “in modern times, China’s nationalism has only been a form of moral concession. On this account, China should now move away from its concessive and defensive nationalism toward a comprehensive and proactive Sinocentrism.


What, then, caused tianxia zhuyi to be transformed from “globalism” into “a form of nationalism disguised as globalism” among Chinese academic circles? It was simply “the rise of China.” Starting in the 1990s, slogans like “China can say no,” “China is not happy,” and “China has stood up” began to emerge. Spurred on by a sense of national sadness or humiliation, people felt that since the Chinese economy and national power had expanded so rapidly, in order to protect China’s global interests, China should not only engage in trade throughout the world from a position of military strength, but it should also triumph over the strong and bring peace to the masses. Even more, China should “manage many many more natural resources than the nation itself now possesses.” That is the only “road to victory for a great nation on the rise.”[12]
They ask “is this one world or two? Can China and the United States jointly govern the world? China is now in the process of rising, and once it surpasses the United States, what will the world be like?” Wang Xiaodong 王小东, “the standard bearer of Chinese nationalism,” published a book entitled The Mandate of Heaven Settles on a Great Nation 天命所歸是大國 in 2008 with the subtitle “We Want to be a Heroic Nation and the Leader of the World.”[13] A self-styled Confucian, Yao Zhongqiu 姚中秋, also asked: once China displaces the United States, how should we arrange the international order? His answer was: internally, let Confucianism protect Chinese values; externally, employ the Chinese world order to arrange All Under Heaven. He believes that would be “the Chinese moment in world history.”
The problem is, though, that Pye did not really offer any deep historical analysis of China as a “civilization-state,” nor did he demonstrate just what particular characteristics this category of “civilization-state” actually had; and even more, he did not present any clear argument about how a “civilization-state” should act within the modern world order. It has been rather another group of academics, relying on works by two other Western scholars, who have enthusiastically promoted the “China Model” and the “theory of Chinese exceptionalism.” They have relied on the advocacy of Henry Kissinger, On China, and Martin Jacques, When China Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order, to revitalize these specious concepts. They have tried to exceptionalize Chinese history in an attempt to dress up ancient China’s tribute system as a very civilized institution and to spare contemporary China from the restraints of the modern international system.[16] In this way a Sinocentric “empire” or “All Under Heaven” will become both justifiable and legitimate.
Interestingly enough, in a discussion of the “Sinocentric system,” a French scholar once asked the following series of questions: Who is going to select the ruler (“paterfamilias 大家长”) of the tianxia? How will he be selected? Who will he be responsible to? How will his laws be enacted? Will his statements to the people be written in the Latin alphabet or in Chinese characters? Reportedly, “In the face of these questions, Zhao Tingyang frankly admitted that he was only demonstrating the political principles and universal system of values of the ‘tianxia tixi’ from a philosophic point of view and could not without great difficulty advance any imaginative ideas about its concrete institutions of political power. He also said that he had never figured out a good way to solve the problem of the ruler 大家长.” Who, indeed, is “the ruler?” Who establishes the governing rules for this tianxia? Who sets up this world order and judges its reasonableness?
When modern scholars discuss “All Under Heaven,” they always quote the theories of the Gongyang School of Spring and Autumn Annals study. According to the Gongyang Commentary to the Spring and Autumn Annals 春秋公羊传, because its time was so remote, in the Spring and Autumn Annals records of events “there are different expressions concerning that which has been seen, heard, and passed down.”[18] That is to say that the records in the Spring and Autumn Annals are derived from three different periods of historical memory, and so they contain “different expressions.” If things remained at that, there would certainly have been nothing unusual about these ideas.


However, He Xiu 何休 (129-182) of the Eastern Han, further elaborated on this theme and transformed these three different eras of historical memory into three eras with different political systems and moral levels. In the first age, “the royal capital is situated inside (central) and the various Chinese states are outside,” in the second, “the various Chinese states are inside while the non-Chinese are outside,” and in the third and final age, “in All Under Heaven, far and near, large and small are all one.” The interesting thing is that it was just this differently oriented interpretation that became an important discourse concerning the real “system of Chinese-barbarian relations” and the ideal “order of All Under Heaven.”


When Confucius came to compose the Spring and Autumn Annals, he thought the best thing to do was to institute a principle that required the Son of Heaven, the Regional Rulers, the high officials and the even more distant barbarians to abide by a system of hierarchical order among superiors and inferiors. It was then hoped that an effective political order could be established by relying on this structure of deferential sequences of near and far and inside and outside in different periods of time, first “the royal capital is situated inside (central) and the various Chinese states are outside,” and then “the various Chinese states are inside while the non-Chinese are outside.”
One particular phenomenon is often seen in Chinese intellectual history: promoting the appearance of new ideas on the basis of “mistaken readings” of the classic texts. This has been especially the case because these “misreadings” are capable of considerable elaboration. Just as Qian Mu 钱穆 (1895-1990) said, “the higher they are valued, the more abundantly they are debated.”[23] If we return to the historical context and examine the materials concerning Zhuang Cunyu and Liu Fenglu, we will probably be able to discern several important elements of their thought. First, they were worried about the disappearance of the long history of explication of the “great meaning of the subtle words 微言大義” of the classics. And second, they criticized the use of historical methods, common in the contemporary Qianlong period, to explicate the meaning of the classic texts. To put it simply, we can say that there were three main elements in Zhuang Cunyu and Liu Fenglu’s Gongyang School of Spring and Autumn Annals studies.


First, they elucidated the idea of “the king’s tianxia” (that is the search for political uniformity throughout the country). Second, they sought the “great unity 大一统,” that is, China’s search for a unified polity (dynasty, empire) throughout its history. Third, they imagined that after All Under Heaven was unified, then “the whole world would have the same customs and the nine continents would be joined together 六合同风,九州共贯” (what the ancient Chinese had sought throughout history, the so-called realm in which there was “a uniform morality and identical customs.”
The idea of taking the “theory of the three stages of human history 三世说” as a blueprint for the design of the future world unexpectedly came into being with Kang Youwei in the late Qing. Reading his works, such as Dong Zhongshu’s Studies of the Spring and Autumn Annals 春秋董氏学, A Study of Confucius as a Reformer 孔子改制考, The Book of Great Unity 大同书, and so on, we can see that he heavily politicized and modernized the ancient Gongyang School theories. As many scholars, like Xiao Gongquan (Hsiao Kung-ch’uan 萧公权) and Zhu Weizheng 朱维铮, long ago pointed out, from Liao Ping 廖平 (1852-1932) to Kang Youwei, several late Qing scholars attempted to use materials from the traditional classics to respond to the challenges of Japan and the West.


Liao Ping only had one foot beyond the borders of the study of the classics, but Kang Youwei had already jumped completely outside the threshold of traditional classical studies. He employed the ideas of the “three stages of human history,” the “three sources of political legitimacy,” and “inside and outside” in the Gongyang Commentary and its annotations to respond to China's internal crises and the international order. On the one hand, he admitted that these new internal crises and the new international order meant that “China” was no longer a Celestial Empire. The times had already reverted to “the royal capital is situated inside (central) and the various Chinese states are outside,” or “the various Chinese states are inside while the non-Chinese are outside.” On the other hand, he strove mightily to make China once more envelop the world through its civilization and to restore its confidence on the basis of taking the idea of Great Unity of All Under Heaven where “far and near, large and small are all one” as a future ideal.


In General Discourse on Teaching 教学通义, he first used the “three stages” to periodize Chinese history, and in Dong Zhongshu’s Studies of the Spring and Autumn Annals, he also emphasized that the “theory of the three stages of human history” was “Confucius’ extremely important principle.” But only in A Study of Confucius as a Reformer, did he formally assert that Confucius wrote the Spring and Autumn Annals “on the basis of the state he was born in, and thus he established the principle of the three stages of human history and paid attention to the great unity in which far and near, large and small are all one.” Later on when he wrote The Book of Great Unity, he based himself even more on the Gongyang Commentary to imagine a world where “the four seas are as one” and “All Under Heaven is one family.”
The question is: Can Kang Youwei’s ideas about the “three stages of human history” and especially the “Great Unity” really be turned into a system for the world of the future? Someone has done a rather modern interpretation of this question and concluded that “in China's self-transformation from empire to sovereign nation,” Kang Youwei performed the function of a “legislator 立法者.” Why? For four reasons. First, Kang used the term “struggle between nations” to describe the contemporary world situation and advocated “changing China's imperial system into a nation-state system.” Second, he reinterpreted the meaning of “China,” excluded the ethnic element, sought the origin of “China's” identity in culture, and discovered in Chinese politics a theory of anti-nationalist (anti-ethnic) nation (state) building.


Third, he combined the Confucian vision of universalism and Western knowledge politics to conceive a long-range prospect of a Great Unity tantamount to a great utopia. Finally, Kang combined this prospective utopia with nationalism and the ideology of Confucianism as a religion and thus created some flavor of religious reformism.
These two works received widespread attention. Jiang Qing’s study aimed to illustrate the political significance of the Gongyang School. He explained how the Gongyang School was “a political Confucianism that is different from the Neo-Confucian School of Mind.” It was “a practical Confucianism that offered hope in a dark age.” He emphasized that “their ideal world of Great Peace and Great Unity was the life hope that the Gongyang School offered for a chaotic age.” This “Gongyang School’s debate about barbarians and Chinese was based on culturalistic nationalism; it was precisely a healthy and reasonable form of nationalism” that inspired Sheng Hong to advocate “Sinocentrism.”[30]
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

I underlined a Neo-Confucian Jiang Qing. He wrote an essay
https://www.readingthechinadream.com/ji ... cians.html
Jiang Qing, "Only Confucians"
Jiang Qing, Only Confucians Can Make a Place for Modern Women[1]

Introduction and translation by David Ownby

Jiang Qing (b. 1953) is China’s best-known New Confucian thinker, and has devoted most of his career to building a new “political Confucianism” that will respond to China’s current conditions. This Confucianism is political in two ways. First, Jiang has broken with New Confucian thinkers as they have existed in the Chinese diaspora (chiefly Hong Kong, Taiwan and the United States) for some decades. These thinkers, perhaps best represented by Tu Wei-ming 杜维明 (b. 1940), have largely accepted the universal claims of modernity, particularly in terms of political economy and governance, but have continued to insist on the relevance of Confucianism as a possible communitarian counter-weight to the excessive individualism and consumerism of modern life. Jiang Qing rejects the universal claims of modernity and insists that the Confucian way is superior. Second, Jiang has invested considerable intellectual energy in the imagination of Confucian institutions that could, theoretically, replace those of the ruling Communist Party. Jiang imagines a tricameral government with one body selected by the people (the House of the Commoners 庶民院), one body made up of a meritocratic, largely Confucian, elite (the House of Confucian Tradition 通儒院), and one body made up of actual descendants of Confucius himself (The House of National Essence 国体院).[2] Jiang’s aim is to construct a legitimacy that will go beyond the petty, grasping utilitarianism of modern democracies and ground authority is something sacred and traditional. It is perhaps the audacious impracticality of Jiang’s propositions that have so far kept him out of serious political trouble.

The text translated here—in fact, it is an interview—is quite different. Here, Jiang attempts to establish the superiority of Confucianism as a guide to life and happiness for Chinese (and presumably other) women who have been beguiled by the false charms of modern life. The “interviewer” is one of Jiang’s assistants, a retired woman named Fan Bixuan 范必萱, who serves up one softball after another, allowing Jiang to hold forth at length. Presumably, Fan’s role is to break up the monotony and to suggest that women are part of Jiang’s conversation.

In any event, most of Jiang’s arguments are concerned not directly with women, but with the denunciation of Confucians as oppressors of women during China’s May Fourth and New Culture Movements (roughly 1915-1930). During this period, iconoclastic radicals condemned Confucianism as the main reason for China’s weakness and backwardness, claiming that Confucian insistence on family hierarchy and ritual had perverted the development of the sort of individualism necessary to survival in the modern world. The place of women in traditional Confucian society served as a glaring example, and modernizers and revolutionaries competed to denounce foot-binding, concubinage, arranged marriage…

Jiang argues, first, that Confucianism had little or nothing to do with these practices, and furthermore that China’s record on this score is no worse than that of other countries, past and present. He is probably right that critics exaggerated somewhat the degree to which Confucianism as a body of thought or doctrine contributed to the ill-treatment of women; the condemnation of Confucianism in early twentieth century China was based on politics, not scholarship. On the other hand, the fact that corsets inflicted lasting harm on Western women in centuries past, or that plastic surgery continues to defigure women today hardly proves that “Confucianism has a place for modern women.” That we are all sinners does not remove or excuse the sin.

When Jiang tries to describe the Confucian “way” for modern women, he falls immediately into crude and conventional stereotypes and arguments. Premodern societies were “natural,” built on families and hierarchies rather than abstractions deduced by rationality. Men and women are by nature different. Men are extraverted, action-oriented; women introverted and passive. Women have their own superiority, most developed in the feminine realms of domesticity and motherhood, where they can be a true helpmate to their husband and children. Of course, some women might be interested in professional careers, but if China had a genuine family policy (like South Korea) which paid husbands enough for wives to remain home, Jiang is sure that this is the path Chinese women would follow.

I confess for my part that I can’t see Jiang’s arguments (or his supercilious tone) appealing to many of the smart, feisty, independent Chinese women I have met over the course of my career, but perhaps he knows his audience better than I do. To me, this interview suggests that Jiang’s creativity at an institutional level does not extend to the level of culture or society. The problem is larger than Jiang; the Mainland New Confucians can, at moments, seem very much like an old boys’ club. The casual misogyny that we find in certain New Confucian texts, in which women are blamed for divorce and other marital problems afflicting contemporary Chinese society, is shocking.[3] In this light, the New Confucians look less like principled cultural conservatives, and more like alt-right groups in the West, some of whom of course see themselves as “principled cultural conservatives” as well. Jiang’s defense of Confucianism would be more convincing if he acknowledged at least some of the gains achieved by modernity.

Translation

Confucians did not encourage concubinage; the phenomenon of one man taking several wives was a custom found among all traditional peoples, and has no direct relationship to the basic principles of Confucianism

Fan Bixuan: With the acceleration of the Confucian cultural revival, the Confucian view of women has attracted more and more attention. The social conditions that face contemporary Confucians are different than in traditional times. In traditional social life, women had little position. Men set the tone for society, and most social customs discriminated against and limited women.” This was expressed in well-known sayings like "men are noble and women are base 男尊女卑," "the husband guides the wife 夫为妻纲," "women and petty people are difficult to endure 唯女子与小人难养,[4]" "a woman's lack of talent is her virtue 女子无才便是德," and in the system of concubinage, among other things. This directly influences women's affinity for Confucian culture.

With the development of productivity and the advance of human civilization, women have greatly entered social life. Yet in the process of assuming roles in society, modern women have encountered new obstacles and difficulties. Neither Buddhism nor Daoism provides a positive valuation of women as they face these problems. Confucianism emphasizes social ethics, and not only argues that there are differences between men and women and that each has a role to play, but in addition takes seriously the kind of moral transformation suggested by the "three obediences and the four virtues 三从四德.”[5] In this sense, Confucianism has a positive message that protects women. However, the exaggerated negative view of Confucianism propagated since the "May Fourth”[6] period has seriously damaged the feelings of contemporary women toward Confucianism. How can we convince contemporary women, and particularly intellectual women, to identify with and embrace Confucianism as a philosophy of life? How can we bring them to construct a sense of reliance and belonging to Confucianism in the course of the Confucian cultural revival?

Jiang Qing: You provide a comprehensive overview of the question. Since the beginning of the modern period, Confucianism has faced a question that demands a positive resolution and response, and this is precisely the question of women. What is the value of women in Confucian doctrine? What place should be made for women? This kind of question did not exist in traditional society because traditional society was a natural society. This question did not exist in pre-modern Christian, Islamic or Indian civilizations, because they all provided an appropriate place for women based on nature and society, a place that embodied women's value. And in the specific case of Confucianism, this was not an important question either.

However, we should not completely equate Confucian ideas about women with the social existence of women in traditional societies, because some aspects of the social existence of women in traditional societies were the product of social customs, and had no relationship with Confucian principles. For example, we find no textual support for the practice of concubinage in Confucian teachings. In fact, according to classical customs, the nobles[7] could not remarry, and indeed could only marry once, even if their wife died, because remarriage might lead to confusion in the inheritance of political power. But if they couldn't get married, then what happened when a wife died? A nobleman could not remain single just because his wife died, so in ancient society the custom came to be to allow the nobility to have one wife but many "companions." This was the system wherein the nobility took as companions the sisters of the wife. But this system was confined to people with national power, and was not widespread in society. When we look at traditional Confucians like Confucius, Mencius 孟子[8], Sima Guang 司马光[9], Zhu Xi 朱熹[10], Wang Yangming 王阳明[11], and Liu Zongzhou 刘宗周[12], we note that none of them had concubines. Liu Zongzhou established a "group of witnesses 证人会" whose charter clearly stated that none of the members could take a concubine without a good reason. This meant that only when the wife was unable to bear children could one take a concubine to continue the family line. But Confucians did not universalize concubinage, arguing that anyone could unconditionally take a concubine, much less encourage concubinage. In fact, the custom of one man taking many wives was a widespread custom among all traditional peoples, and has no direct connection to basic Confucian principles, and when "May Fourth" period intellectuals blamed concubinage on Confucianism, this was unjust.

Intellectuals from the "May Fourth" period demonized the traditional concubine system, although if we employ their critique against the current practice of keeping mistresses it is fully appropriate.

Jiang Qing: Of course, traditional people with money and positions frequently took concubines, especially militarists from the Republican period onward. They were unconstrained by the ritual system and had no taboos, so they took ten or twenty at once. We can't call these militarists Confucians. They took concubines based on social customs, which had nothing to do with basic Confucian principles. You can't blame Confucians for this. As for certain Confucians who did take concubines, such as Kang Youwei 康有為[13], they were exceptions, and most Confucians did not take concubines. In sum, Confucians advocated the system of one man-one wife, and if they tacitly acknowledged the custom of concubinage at a very limited level, they never gave it positive encouragement.

Of course, in history we find many people who took concubines to fulfill their personal desires and not to perpetuate the bloodline. Republican-period intellectuals were basically criticizing this kind of person, whom Confucians criticized as well. Zhu Xi said: "one man-one wife is a heavenly principle; three palaces and six concubines is man's desire 一夫一妻,天理也;三宫六妾,人欲也." Nonetheless, because of the ancient custom of one wife and many companions, emperors often pushed this to the extreme out of personal desires, taking concubines wherever they went so that there were thousands in the empress's palaces, but this clearly is in conflict with the Confucian view of marriage.

Even if Confucians conditionally acknowledged concubinage, and even if in traditional times the concubine system clearly existed to serve private selfish desires, it was still not like in the criticisms of "May Fourth" intellectuals, who said that this was a system that "ate people,"[14] an extreme form of suppression of and cruelty toward women. In traditional times even if a concubine was not the wife, she still had a legal standing, and was seen as a kind of wife. It was not as casual as the custom of keeping mistresses in modern France or in today's China. To take a concubine, one had to guarantee her legal independence, her rightful claims to inheritance, and the legal status of her children. The ritual process had to be followed, meaning that there had to be master of ceremonies for the wedding, an exchange of gifts and a wedding ceremony. Once married, the position of the concubine was less than that of the wife, meaning that household affairs and accounts were managed by the wife, as we see in the title given to the main wife, "lord of the courtyard 院君." If the main wife fell ill, or if something else happened, the position of the concubine could rise. If the main wife died, then the concubine had the opportunity to become the main wife.

I remember Gu Hongming 辜鴻銘[15] once asking, isn't it common practice in France to have mistresses? When we compare mistresses to concubines, mistresses are too miserable, they are like mistresses 二奶 in today's China, having no legal status, so that if they have children they are only the women's children, not acknowledged by the father. The children of concubines had legal status, and could carry forward the family line. French mistresses look like they have a lot of freedom. They seem to control their own lives, and take up with whomever they want to take up with, marry whomever they want to marry, and if they don't want to marry then they don't. Even if they look very dashing when they're young, when they get old it's hard to imagine how miserable they are.

Chinese concubines were not like this. They could not be abandoned without a proper, legal reason, and when they got old they had legal protections, so that at the very least they could live a normal life, enjoying stability and respect. This is why I say that while "May Fourth" intellectuals demonized the traditional system of concubinage, their attacks are really extremely appropriate when aimed at the practice of keeping mistresses in today's China. These mistresses are really in a sad state. Things are okay when they're young, but once they're old they are cast aside, with at best a bit of cash to compensate for their losses. There is no guarantee for the rest of their lives, to say nothing of obtaining any sort of legal status.

In traditional times fashionable gentry also took concubines. Su Dongpo 苏东坡[16] was an example. Su Dongpo had deep feelings for his concubine Wang Chaoyun 王朝云, and wrote many poems for her. When he was exiled to Hainan, the concubine followed him to share this difficult period. After she died, Su Dongpo built a Liuru Pavilion at her gravesite to mark her passing, and wrote a couplet: "I am out of step with my times, and only Chaoyun understands me. Alone I pluck the old songs, and in the rainy dusk my affection grows 不合时宜,惟有朝云能识我,独弹古调,每逢暮雨倍思卿." Gu Hongming took a Japanese concubine, and was very good to her, but she died young. He wrote a poem to mourn her passing. “Everyone knows grief, but how many times in a century will one experience such loss? Such pain. The water of the Yangzi flows onward, never to return,此恨人人有,百年能有几?痛哉长江水,同渡不同归." And on the title page of his English translation of the Doctrine of the Mean Zhongyong 中庸, he movingly wrote "I dedicate this work to my departed concubine Yoshida Sadako 吉田贞子." He also bought her a plot in Shanghai's best cemetery, and wrote on the gravestone "A filial Japanese woman." Clearly, Gu's beloved concubine Yoshida Sadako was, from a legal standpoint, his beloved wife. What is sad is that mistresses in China today do not receive such treatment.

Our current system of one man-one wife is in imitation of Christianity, and I suspect that among all world civilizations, only Christianity has legally stipulated the one man-one woman system. Thus we cannot say that systems that allow more than one wife are bad. Look at Islam where one man can take multiple wives. There is less family corruption, and relations between man and wife are much better in Islam than in the West. In the West there are children born out of wedlock and there are mistresses; in China there are mistresses as well.

There's none of this in Muslim countries. It may be that in those countries, only people with status and ability can have multiple wives, so we can't say that they are all corrupt. By "corrupt" I mean not observing proper ritual behavior between men and women, and behaving licentiously. In the West, the legal norm is one man-one women, yet married lives are very corrupt. For example, everyone knows about the affairs of the American president. And the private lives of many politicians and rich people have been revealed as well. I have a friend who returned to China after studying abroad. His thinking has been greatly influenced by the West, and he basically divorces and remarries every two or three years—and sometimes in as little as one year. To my mind this is another system of one man-multiple wives, the only difference is that my friend does this serially and he doesn't violate the marriage law. Of course, there are lots of reasons for this, but one is surely that he gets bored with the old wife and looks for a new one, justifying his actions by saying: "If we don't get along, we'll divorce, and then I'll find a new wife."

Foot-binding grew out of popular practices, and was opposed by Confucians. If we say that foot binding was cruel, then Western practices of "girdling" are even more cruel

Jiang Qing: Other issues, like foot-binding, are even less worth discussing [Jiang is still responding to May Fourth period criticisms of Confucianism]. We find no clear rules in ancient scriptures about foot-binding. Scholars have proven that this custom gradually took shape from Song times forward, and was created by the people themselves. Every era has its aesthetic criteria, and at that time everyone felt that women with small feet were very elegant and refined, and easy to marry off. Men at that time must have felt that, aesthetically, small feet were prettier than big feet, or maybe they had no particular opinion and social customs simply evolved in this manner, so men just followed along. Of course, this placed great pressure on women, so that even poor women in remote villages had to bind their feet.

Still, Confucians were against this custom. For example, a local Confucian scholar-gentry in the Qing dynasty wrote to the court saying that too many women in the surrounding countryside bound their feet and that this was inhumane. He hoped that the state would pass laws forbidding the practice, and the state did issue an order forbidding foot-binding, but the force of custom was too great and the order made no difference.

In this context, Gu Hongming noted that if foot-binding is cruel, the Western practice of girdling or corseting is even worse. At the time [i.e., the 19th century] it was fashionable in France for women to be thin-waisted, so from a very young age they bound their waist, so that it remained very thin even after they grew up. Of course this created a deformity, and robbed women of their ability to reproduce. Thus there is absolutely no relationship between Confucianism and foot-binding, which was imposed instead by social trends as a traditional custom.

Modern people no longer bind their feet or cinch their waists, but they redo their breasts, or their noses, through plastic surgery. Perfectly normal people inject silicone here, carve off the odd bit there, which has produced many disastrous outcomes. The plastic surgery business is booming, but they are not aiming for traditional good looks. Instead these surgeons show people pictures of foreigners and say "your nose is no good," "your cheekbones are no good," "your eyes are no good." European-style eyes and eyelids are all the rage, so with a little suction, they hollow out the eye sockets, and with a flick of the knife the eyelids open up. This kind of so-called "cosmetic surgery" is also cruel to the body, yet our new-style intellectuals do not oppose it. Why not? They believe that this is a question of aesthetics or fashion, and that women have freedom over their bodies, thus morality is not an issue. If that's the case, and it's all a question of aesthetics and fashion, then on what basis do they criticize foot binding? And all the more blame it on Confucians?

The basic aim of Confucian ritual teachings is to provide a just and reasonable place for women based on their natural [i.e., gender] and social character

Jiang Qing: There are also questions of social class, where once again we find the "May Fourth" intellectuals launching their most serious criticisms of Confucianism, arguing that Confucianism fashioned a society in which women were completely oppressed by the "three bonds and five constants 三纲五常," [17] and other similar ritual practices. They argue further that such constraints weighed heavily on women, so that they lost their humanity, their freedom, their personality. In other words, in Confucian society, women were not people, and women's lives were hell.

In matter of fact, there are extreme cases in any period, and if you want to look for extreme cases over this very long period of time, then you will no doubt find them. Lu Xun's words magnify these extreme cases: China's two millennia of ritual teachings served to "eat people." In other words, during these two thousand years the Chinese people suffered cruelly, and women suffered the most of all.

We argue that in the long course of history in which, in extreme cases, women were oppressed, this oppression occurred in the West as well as in China, in traditional times and in the present day. This is hard to avoid. Yet the basic objective of Confucian ritual teachings is to make a proper, reasonable place for women according to her gender nature and her social nature, and hence provide her with her own life meaning and existential value. This is in the spirit of "making distinctions" as prescribed by "ritual," and is the very "way of women." This "ritual" spirit is conceived for women, not for universal application.

For example, one point that "May Fourth" intellectuals criticized harshly was the idea that "the husband guides the wife." In their eyes, this meant that the husband was the master of the household, and the wife had to obey the husband in all things. She had no right to speak in the household and hence no power of decision. She had no position and was no better than a slave. In matter of fact the meaning of "guidance," whether in abstract terms or in terms of social practice, is far from this.

In traditional times families were very big; in some cases, it was like a small society. It was like this at the beginning of the Republican period, when one family could have dozens of people. In Han Yu's 韩愈[18] essays we note that he frequently complains of being poor, which meant that he had no choice to but work as a secretary to an official, because he had to find a way to support his family of 50 or 60 people. And he did not take concubines, so his family was probably not overly large. In this kind of big family, there had to be a central person who would take command naturally, otherwise the family would not be manageable. Democracy only works with strangers, because it is created by choices other than natural rationality.

For example, when we organize ourselves into a group, everyone raises their hand to vote for a leader, whether we call him president, or premier, or leader, or manager—in any event the vote is the product of unnatural [i.e., man-made] rationality. But a family is different. A family is a product of bloodlines, and forms naturally; it is not the result of rational election. A family, especially a big, traditional family, requires a leader. This leader must have both authority and responsibility. What is authority? Authority means that the leader is in charge of the family's food, livelihood, living situation, order, disputes, etc. So authority is not necessarily something people desire; if you have the authority you must also exercise responsibility. Han Yu didn't want to work as a secretary, but life forced this upon him and he had no choice but to go. This was his responsibility, and if he didn't go, then several dozen people would have had no food to eat. For this reason, the meaning of "the husband guides the wife" means that a family needs someone who will have overall responsibility, and that if there are family problems, the "guide" will take responsibility. The "guide" is thus the family leader and bearer of responsibility—the husband.

Of course, this doesn't mean that women had no purpose in traditional families, rather that they did not bear primary responsibility for sustaining the family. For example, if the family was out of food, family members didn't seek out the wife, but rather looked for the husband, and if the husband could not solve the problem, then the wife would assist him to take responsibility. In the villages, men went to work in the field, and women took care of the housework, but sometimes the women would join the men in the fields to help out. Still, most of the heavy agricultural labor and other chores were the responsibility of the husband. In traditional Confucian society, women also had another special responsibility, which was that of the basic education of the children.

Taking care of and nourishing children is women's social role and gender nature. Nothing is more natural than for women to take care of children. Everyone knows that in a family, paternal love and maternal love are not the same. From the time of their birth, children are nurtured and taken care of by their mother, and if they have something on their mind it is to their mothers that they want to say it, in the same way that mothers are naturally oriented toward giving care to their children.

Many sages and worthies in traditional times in China were raised by their mother after the death of their father. This was the case of Confucius, Mencius, Ouyang Xiu 欧阳修[19], and Gu Yanwu 顾炎武[20], among others. Moreover, traditional family management and the handling of family affairs was the responsibility of the wife. So if the husband had to bring home the bacon, family accounts were the wives' responsibility. This division of labor was not established by law, but rather evolved naturally. So when we say that "the husband guides the wife," we mean that the husband must assume the chief responsibilities for the family, and not that he is the sole authority in the family who must oppress his wife. In fact, in traditional families, the wife was the general manager of the family, and had considerable power and authority, especially in financial matters.

Moreover, women's power in the family increased with age, and an old grandmother possessed considerable power and status, to the point that her son would not dare oppose her. One example is Grandmother Jia in the Dream of the Red Chambers.[21] For this reason, what we observe in traditional families is not like the distorted version presented to us by "May Fourth" intellectuals. In traditional marriages and families, we do not find the phenomenon of universal cruelty toward and oppression of women.

In traditional marriages, the source of women's feelings of happiness was not the lack of control over her fate, because men had no such control either

Fan Bixuan: In traditional marriages, most of which were accomplished "on order of the parents and with the help of a matchmaker 父母之命,媒妁之言," women had little choice over whom they married. Might this have influenced the women's happiness once married?

Jiang Qing: On the question of the happiness of women in traditional marriages, "May Fourth" intellectuals criticized these marriages because they were arranged, which meant that there was no happiness for the women. Actually, if the marriage was really conducted in proper ritual terms, both the man and the woman would have to go through a lengthy procedure, and the woman's opinion was not completely ignored. Every step of the process was carried out with care, and if a step went wrong, then the marriage did not happen. There were only a few very poor families who married off their daughters even before they were born, after which they would be brought up in their future husband's family. In traditional married families, the happiness of the woman was not a product of her degree of control over her fate, since the man had no such control either.

Many sources tell us that the happiness of women in olden times was not worse than that in modern free marriages. There is a new term now—"the marriage-dodging elite 闪婚族"—that describes my friend who gets divorced every year. Are the women in these marriages happy? What if a woman is married to a university professor, and suddenly a female doctoral candidate takes a liking to him, and the professor is no longer satisfied with his wife? Well if you're not satisfied, then you get divorced, right? It's simple. But at the beginning the woman had decided to marry the professor. So is the power of decision a guarantee of happiness? Obviously not.

Now there are some women who, even though they succeeded in finding a capable husband, are always uneasy, because they know that a third party may intervene at any time, and that once the husband has a change of heart, the marriage is over. By way of contrast, traditional marriages were much more stable. Divorce could not be had on demand, unlike now when divorce requires no reason, when you give up as soon as you don't get along. Everyone knows the traditional "seven justifications for divorce 七出,"[22] and if these conditions weren't met then there was no divorce. (Fan adds: "There were also the "three conditions precluding divorce 三不去”[23] which protected the women). Right! Not getting along was not a reason.

I have a friend—I know his wife too, she's an outstanding high school teacher. One day he called me out of the blue to tell me he'd just remarried. I thought this was strange and imagined that there must have been some kind of problem. Later when we met he said "only now have I understood what marriage means." Which meant that his current wife was better than his past wife. I thought, well, sure, the former wife is twenty years older. She one worked hard to raise your children and now she's old. Now the new wife is young and pretty, so what else are you going to say? Unbelievable, this is a so-called high-level intellectual saying "only now do I understand what marriage is."

Traditional marriages were happier [than modern marriages] because in addition to legal protection, there was also the protection of social customs

Jiang Qing: The conditions demanded for granting a divorce in traditional ritual laws constituted a high barrier, and thus served as a kind of protection for women. Now people decide on their own marriages, and divorce is free. There are no conditions restricting all of this, and the result is a tragedy for the weaker member of the couple. For example, the fact that women age easily is a weak spot, and without legal protection, can result in the break-up of the family. Currently there are two ways to break up a family, one is divorce, and the other is taking a mistress. The man doesn't bring the mistress home, but if his family finds out he doesn't care, even if the law is on the side of the wife and not the mistress. For this reason, when we compare women's happiness in traditional and modern families, we need to reduce by quite a bit the happiness identified by the "May Fourth" crowd as being associated with arranging one's own marriage.

Many things that occurred in the early Republican period, which was a period of transition between two types of marriage systems, were often quite strange. Cases like Lu Xun's wife, Zhu An 朱安, were very few. Zhu An was someone who suffered from the new style of marriage, not from the traditional style of marriage.[24] Because had there not been new style intellectuals who refused traditional marriage, then she should have been happy. Zhu An took good care of Lu Xun's parents as well as producing heirs to perpetuate the family line, and thus should have been very happy. Thus we cannot say that Zhu Ann's tragedy was the tragedy of traditional marriage. For example, Hu Shi 胡適[25] also had a traditional marriage, but his wife was very happy. He was very respectful of his wife, and even took her with him to the United States when serving as ambassador. You can see how happy she was.

Thus I feel that there was more happiness in traditional marriages than in modern marriages, because in addition to the legal protection, traditional society also added the protection of customs. Moreover, traditional women had many types of happiness; their happiness was not built uniquely on the husband, and because the husband had the husband's propriety and the wife the wife's propriety, much of the traditional wife's happiness was built on the basis of this ritual life.

For example, filially serving her in-laws, raising the children with her husband, managing the family, protecting the family name, were all part of the woman's role, and she could feel great happiness in accomplishing these various tasks. If a woman could raise an outstanding child who gained the broad praise of society, then how happy she must have been! In supporting her husband, if the woman did her utmost morally, in daily life, to support her husband professionally, thus nurturing his sense of accomplishment, then she would feel much happiness as well. In olden times many women did this very well; we find many representative examples in the Biographies of Virtuous Women 列女传, women who understand principle, who help their husbands with ideas concerning politics or society, who encourage their husband to maintain high standards of performance and personality.

All of the above illustrates that Confucians provide a reasonable place for women according to their gender nature and their social nature, allowing them to obtain their own life meaning and existential value according to the "way of women 妇道" and to "women's rites 妇礼.”

Marriage is not sustained by man's natural character, but rather through religion, morality, duty and responsibility

Jiang Qing: Of course, that was traditional society. Things have changed with modern society. Are Confucian views of women obsolete? I don't think so. Because of the influence of the West, marriages throughout the world, with the exception of Islam, are facing a huge crisis. At present the divorce rate in China is the highest in the world. Things like mistresses, one-night stands, wife-swapping, trial marriages, and gay marriage (de facto gay marriage) are constantly challenging the normal marriage system. The family is the basic building block of social life, and if there are no cultural values to sustain the family, meaning that family one day falls apart, then society will fall apart too. In this situation, I feel that the Confucian views of women and of marriage should be strengthened.

At present, the Chinese family still preserves the faint outlines of a few traditional elements. For example, in the education of children, we note that the majority of those taking their children to extra classes are women. Women's' nature makes them even more concerned with children's education, and this is her family responsibility as a mother, as well as her authority in managing the family. Moreover, women run the finances of most households, and very few women say they don't handle the money, that they turn it over to their husband. In addition, Confucians noted that "the husband is just and the wife is loyal 夫义妇贞." By "loyal" he meant “upright,” so "the husband is just and the wife is loyal" means that the husband has his role and the wife has her role. For example, the husband should be "loyal" to the household, as should the wife. I think that no wife gets married hoping that the family will be unstable; she hopes to be loyal to the family. Of course, the man has the same demands, and also demands that the wife be "loyal" to the family.

But if we hope to convince people of these ideas, there is still work to do. Due to the excessively negative propaganda of the "May Fourth" intellectuals, people have greatly misunderstood the Confucian view of women and marriage. Once modern people hear someone talking about responsibility in the context of married life then get annoyed; all they care about are rights and freedom. If you bring up responsibility and duty, they are unhappy, and feel that they have been oppressed. But there is no doubt that marriage is sustained by responsibility and duty. In fact, looking at it on the basis of common sense and experience, once a couple is married, and especially after they have children, marriage is sustained precisely by responsibility and duty. Of course, in China feelings are important, so that if marriage is based on freedom, rights, and the sexual love that the Marxists emphasize, then once children are born, the marriage is in crisis.

Marriage is not sustained by man's nature (or natural instincts), but rather by religion, morality, duty and responsibility. Only by accepting these conditions will both parties to the marriage feel constrained. For example, is it not right to use morality, propriety, and public opinion to keep men from taking mistresses and destroying families? In the West, Catholic countries still consider the stability of marriage the major priority in their church work. And Protestant countries, such as the United States, with the rise of evangelical churches, have also felt the crisis of the decline of the family, and emphasize a return to a traditional view of marriage. As a result, after George W. Bush was elected, he turned his back on the American principle of division between church and state and for the first time allocated money for church organizations to use to maintain traditional family values. In China, we clearly cannot rely on Christianity, but instead should rely on Confucianism to maintain traditional family values.

Confucians view the relationship between husband and wife as a concrete and special form of social relations, and for this reason, husband and wife each has different rights and responsibilities

Fan Bixuan: What you say is true, and answers many questions that I have been thinking about over the years. Thank you. But are the rights and responsibilities of husbands and wives abstractions? When we look at women, and as their social nature becomes fully developed, what sort of value system should we build to raise their rational self-image?

Jiang Qing: I know what you mean. Many people ask me this question, and it is clearly something that women have to resolve for themselves. They need to fight for their own sense of consciousness, meaning, happiness, achievement, and belonging.

In an ideal Confucian society, there are differences between men and women, between husband and wife. Although Confucians talk about universal "benevolence 仁" and "conscience 良知," this is not like Western rationalism, and does not produce abstract values that transcend concrete social relationships. For instance, men and women have particular sexual natures, and husbands and wives have particular family natures, but Western rationalism removes these natural and social attributes, and, taking an abstracted notion of universal equality as a theoretical base, talks about the rights of universal, abstract people. They ignore the Confucian observation that there are differences between men and women, husbands and wives, arguing that in their natural and social attributes, men and women, and husbands and wives, are equal, possessing the same rights and freedoms.

But Confucians are not like this. Confucians start from concrete natural and social attributes, and view husbands and wives as concrete and particular instances of social relations, and for this reason believe that husbands and wives have different rights and responsibilities. This means that in the Confucian discourse on men and women, husbands and wives, men have men's principle, and women have women's principle, husbands have husbands' principle, and wives have wives' principle. This "principle" is not abstract or universal, but instead refers to concrete and particular status. The view of marriage in the eyes of Western reason is that men and women should respect the same principle, meaning that men and women have legal rights and duties, while the Confucian view of marriage argues that men follow the men's principle and women the women's principle. Men, women, husbands and wives should all live according to their different status, in accord with their own social relations.

Actually, in real social life we do not see abstract people. All we see are men and women, who, after marriage, are husbands and wives. Among husbands and wives, some are younger and some are older, some have children and some don't. These are not the same concrete particular people, nor are they the same abstract universalized people. Consequently, in the context of the feelings of accomplishment and belonging that you mentioned, Confucians do not confer universal standards and abstract values that all men, women, husbands and wives can follow, but rather confer concrete standards and individualized values appropriate to particular men and women, husbands and wives. For example, husbands should be just, and women loyal. Men follow the code for men, women the code for women.

Thus in family and social life, and in political life, the functions of men and women, husbands and wives, as well as their feelings of accomplishment and belonging are not the same. For this reason, Confucians do not put forth universal, abstract standards demanding that men and women be seen as equal or receive equal treatment. In today's Western society, and in the Chinese society influenced by the West, there is only one standard for men and women. In politics, men can be president, and so can women, which is the greatest career accomplishment. In the economy, a man can be CEO, and a woman can be CEO, and careers and social customs are all like this, demanding that men and women be viewed as equal. In this way, men and women all receive the same sense of accomplishment and belonging.

Yet I feel that this is wrong. It goes against the Confucian principle that "there are differences between men and women 男女有别," because while men and women do share some common values, such as "benevolence" or "filial piety 孝," nonetheless in terms of men and women's natural gender and social affinities, their senses of accomplishment and belonging are definitely not the same.

Being a good daughter, a good mother and a good wife is the natural gender character of women and a necessary demand of family life, and is the basic value support for judging the meaning of life of Chinese women

Fan Bixuan: What I meant by the question I just asked is: how are today's women, and particularly today's intellectual women, meant to find a sense of belonging and support for their own values within Confucian teachings? In other words, how can they find a meaning and purpose in life within the values expressed by Confucian teachings? I'm not talking now about looking for inspiration within Confucianism, but rather support. Today's women are facing just such a question, and in the search for life beliefs feel a bit lost.

Jiang Qing: Current society is based on careers, so we have intellectual women and women with careers. In the past, women basically did not participate in public life. Of course some did, like when empress dowagers and empresses interfered in court life, as well as women who ruled as emperor, but these were exceptions, and do not represent the social mainstream. Today's intellectual women's sense of belonging and attachment should be multi-faceted, just as the design of Confucian "rituals" is multi-faceted. As Gu Hongming said: if you are to be daughter, then be a good daughter, if you are to be a mother then be a good mother, if you are to be a wife then be a good wife. Society has changed, and women can obtain all sorts of knowledge and engage in all sorts of careers, and thus can participate in social life. Consequently, we should add a sentence [to Gu Hongming's formula]: if women are to be professionals then they should be good professionals.

The traditional Confucian view of "women literati 女士" was "a women who nonetheless participated in public life" 女子而有士行者. Thus when modern women participate in public life, this is a modern expression of participation that does not betray the basic spirit of Confucianism. Concretely speaking, if a women is filial to her parents and in-laws, so that her praise extends to future generations, then this is being a good daughter. If a woman brings up her children well, so that they become healthy adults with good character and education, then she has been a good mother. If she ably performs the role assigned to her, and sustains a good home life, avoiding shame throughout her life, then she is a good wife. These are three roles that women assume and which characterize traditional as well as modern society, or to put it in your terms, three expressions of value carried over from traditional society and still existing today. If these three are done correctly, then she can fulfill herself without shame, and thus obtain the woman's sense of accomplishment and belonging of which you spoke. Then and only then can she think about seeking accomplishments in modern social life, or becoming a successful career woman.

Nonetheless, being a good daughter, a good mother, and a good wife are the necessary demands of her gender nature and her family nature, and constitute the basic sense of value in the life of a Chinese woman. Hence this is also where Chinese women find their basic sense of accomplishment and belonging. As for her participation in public life or her role as a successful career woman, these naturally are not where she will find her basic sense of accomplishment and belonging. Having a successful career is at most a secondary demand of a woman who participates in public life.

A woman's life meaning and existential value cannot reside in an exterior career, to say nothing of locating her sense of accomplishment and belonging in career success, which is always hit or miss. In other words, an intellectual or career woman's professional success only has meaning to the degree that it does not come at the expense of the three womanly roles mentioned above. Of course if you are a full-time wife and don't work outside the home, then being a good daughter, a good mother, and a good wife are enough. Such women can completely fulfill their purpose in life and their existential value, and achieve a sufficient sense of accomplishment and belonging in that way, which means achieving the valuation that women have always had.

But this is hard to do in today's society, and stay-at-home wives are fewer and fewer. And given the influence of Western egalitarianism on Chinese women, many women unconsciously have come to view their professional accomplishments in public life as constituting the basis of their sense of values, accomplishment, and belonging, to the point of seeing these as the very basis of their life meaning and existential value. In so doing, they turn their back on women's gender and family affinities, and women are no longer women, being no longer any different from men. For this reason, Western gender egalitarianism in fact asks that women define themselves and act according to men's standards, and no longer allows women to act in accordance with women's standards, because in today's world, career and professional accomplishments are defined according the men's standards. For example, to be a great politician is defined in terms of men's standards.

Although modern Confucians do not deny women's sense of career and professional accomplishment, they do not agree that career and professional accomplishments are the sole goal or the basic value of a woman's life. Even less do they agree that other roles and positions for women constructed on the basis of their gender or family affinities are worthless. At present some intellectual women emphasize career and professional achievements, ignoring or down-playing the rest. This Confucians do not approve. Still, if today we ask women to cling to traditional roles constructed on the basis of gender and family affinities, and ignore the fact that career and professional success adds to women's sense of accomplishment and value, then we're perhaps being too resistant to change, because at present we cannot ask all women to return to the family, and make the family the center of their lives.

If in the future Chinese society develops in a more balanced manner, like in South Korea, where men's wages are sufficiently high to maintain family life with little problem, so that women can choose not to work, and devote themselves wholeheartedly to the management of the family, then the value of women can completely express itself through the three roles mentioned above. But we are not to that point yet, because in China the system of distribution is not rational, which forces women to work to meet the expenses of family life. Even in the case of a small family and a young couple, if the woman doesn't work, the man's wages are insufficient to support the family. You say that women really want to work outside the home? I think that according to their basic nature they don't want to, it's just that they don't have a choice, If we designed a more reasonable system where men earned higher wages and thus could support the entire family, and if at the same time we designed a system that could protect women, so that for example according to law, half of the man's wages were allocated to women through the state distribution system, then men would have no reason to feel that it was completely up to them to support the family, and they would not look down on women.

If we had this sort of systemic arrangement that could guarantee women's ability to fulfill their own natural gender and family affinities, allowing women to receive the respect and the sense of accomplishment that they deserve in family life, what would be wrong with that? Now in the cities, pre-school age children are almost all looked after by their grandparents, since the parents have no time to take care of them outside of Saturday and Sunday. If the grandparents are not available, then they have to hire a nanny, but nannies don't take care of education, to say nothing of encouraging the development of family feelings. Now many mothers would prefer to take care of their own children, but given the obstacle posed by family finances, they drop the idea. Thus our current wage allocation system is not reasonable, and should be reformed.


......

As Neo-Confucians get revived we need to understand their point of view.
There is still the conflict between Confucian and Budddhist thoughts playing out.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ramana »

That Chinese women seem to feel less affinity for Confucianism than for Buddhism is a question that Confucians must take seriously and resolve in the course of the current Confucian renaissance.

Fan Bixuan: I have another question, which is: how to increase the attractiveness of Confucianism for women? For example, Buddhism claims to provide a feeling of safety and intimacy to women who become Buddhists. This kind of intimacy seems to be largely missing in Confucianism, and there seems to exist a certain exclusion of or discrimination against women in Confucianism. I think that Confucianism should look for a solution to this problem in its original teachings, and devise a set of theories appropriate to modern women who wish to cultivate themselves and manage their families. This would allow women to find self-confidence in Confucianism. In Buddhist scriptures, we can locate here and there passages that express a concern for women. Of course, some of these are no more than a kind of psychological comfort, but they still express a Buddhist concern and empathy for women.

Jiang Qing: I know. What you are talking about is a question of life or death of the soul. It's not like the various questions concerning society and the family that we've just been talking about. We've been talking about the family, society, and politics, but what you're worried about here is an otherworldly matter. To put it in Buddhist technical terms, Confucianism deals with worldly matters, which is what we've been talking about to this point. Buddhism transcends worldly affairs, as well as people's natural gender and social affinities to look squarely at the meaning of life, and views all forms of life as equal, which of course includes men and women as well. In fact, the question you raised exists for men as well. Once they believe in Buddhism, then distinctions between men and women no longer exist, there are no more family roles or social mobility. The five ethical relationships no longer exist, nor do this-worldly ethical standards or value standards. Everything becomes selflessness and co-arising as if you're floating in a dream. Everything is empty. The Buddhist Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra both explain this.

Nonetheless, even if Confucianism concentrates on this-worldly affairs, it still has its transcendent dimension. On questions concerning the existence of god, the eternal nature of the soul, and the meaning of life, Confucianism has its own points of view, and from a religious standpoint, Confucianism can be the Confucian faith. Still, Confucianism's original point of departure is not like Buddhism, and did not set out to solve the problem of man's release from the cycle of life and death, but instead focused on solving problems of the meaning of life that went beyond questions of belief. Since the Buddha’s original goal was to break through the cycle of life and death, the vast numbers of Buddhist writings that followed in his wake continued to devote a great deal of time to this question.

By contrast, Confucius created his teachings so as to foster a sincere faith that heaven would realize man's heavenly dictated nature, and the transcendent meaning and sacred value of this nature. As for the question of whether the soul was immortal, when we read the Book of Poetry or the Book of Rites we find an answer. Confucians also believed that the soul was immortal, just as the Buddhists did, but Confucians had no notion of reincarnation. The idea that the soul is eternal is the basic characteristic of all religions, and Confucianism is no exception. But different religions have different teachings about this. Buddhism has its elaborate theory of reincarnation, and Christianity has its theories about the final judgement. Confucianism rejects both reincarnation and the final judgement, and believes that the soul of a good man ascends to heaven "to be close to God" and enjoy heavenly blessings. The soul of an evil man becomes an evil spirit and cannot ascend to heaven, but rather stays on earth to harm people.

In addition, Confucianism accords much importance to ritual, especially funeral rituals. The precondition of offering sacrifices to the gods is that the soul must be eternal, as is life. If the soul perishes, then ritual offerings have no meaning, because the point of ritual offerings is to facilitate the movement of the soul from the heavens to the human world where it can partake of the ritual offerings.

In traditional Chinese Confucianism, both men and women took ritual occasions very seriously. These occasions enabled them to communicate with the spirit world, thus evidencing the eternal nature of life. In the Book of Poetry, especially the Ernan 二南 section, there are many women who participated in ritual. Indeed, women were entrusted with the preparation of many rituals, which they treated with reverence and engaged in actively. Collecting ritual plants, purification, and arrangement of ritual instruments were all tasks that were allocated to women.

You ask about women's ultimate resting place.[26] My answer is that: while living, they use rituals to rejoin the souls of their ancestors, and after they die, their eternal soul ascends to heaven to be with the gods. As long as you do not engage in evil affairs, your soul can receive eternal blessings in heaven. This doesn't mean that once the soul is in heaven there's nothing more to do. The soul of a good person has to take care of his or her sons and grandsons. This is true for both men and women; there is no difference. That said, we must admit that Confucian scholars after the Han period did not accord enough importance to belief in the eternal soul, which leads many people to feel that Confucianism is lacking on this question when compared to Buddhism, and thus fails to provide the necessary comfort to those concerned with questions of life and death. This is why you feel that Confucianism is less attractive than Buddhism. This is precisely a question that the contemporary Confucian revival in China must address and resolve.

Why is it that the things you feel in Buddhism, you feel less in Confucianism? In part this is a lack in Confucianism, because Confucianism is the learning of an elite, mainly concerned with questions of good governance, so that it accorded less attention to such questions. Even if we do find materials in Confucianism to address such questions, it is not where the focus has been, and this is the fault of Confucianism, which must be elevated and improved. From another perspective, women are less interested than men when it comes to involving themselves in social or political life, and for those who are interested in this side of life, Buddhism offers relatively little, since it does not address questions of politics or ritual.

Song-Ming Confucians talked about the nature of the heart-mind 心性, which they drew from Buddhism and gave their writings a little Buddhist feeling, but Han Confucianism does not feel at all like Buddhism because Han Confucians talked about good government. Even if life and death questions were a concern for Han Confucians, it was not their primary concern, which was how to govern the country. So they had no feeling for Buddhism. From another angle, women were relatively uninterested in politics, society, ritual, etc., and even if in modern times there are some women who are interested in society and politics, they remain a minority, and most women are by nature creatures of feeling, introverted, while men by nature are rational and extraverted. For this reason, Buddhism can readily move women, because it is unconcerned with society and politics, and is focused on questions of life or death. Life and death questions are closest to questions of one's own life, and can incite feelings of empathy, which is why they affect women and their feelings, leading them to believe that Buddhism is attractive.

The questions you ask about the end of life or about release from life are perhaps important for introspective, sensitive women, but are less so for men. For example, Liang Shuming 梁漱溟[27] was a Buddhist until the end of his life, but his principle concerns were about politics and government, the reconstruction of China and of China's villages. He achieved liberation in these political and social activities, which gave him a sense of belonging and accomplishment, thus fulfilling his life's meaning and his existential value. Since women are by nature sensitive and introverted, most of them will not be oriented toward exterior social and political activities and will not search for life's liberation of meaning therein.

Buddhism is a relatively closed, self-referential belief system, and provides an answer to the life questions that concern women. Hence you feel that Buddhism is attractive, because you yourself are one of those sensitive, introspective women looking for answers to concerns about release from your own life, about finding a place, about belonging. If you weren't worried about these questions, and instead were worried about the reconstruction of the Chinese political system, then you wouldn't find a home in Buddhism, you wouldn't find it attractive, because Buddhism has no resources [to address such questions]. Instead, you would find your home in Confucianism, which would seem attractive, because Confucianism is a belief system that deals with affairs of government.
It is urgent that we transform women through education based on model women and through the molding of women's character

Fan Bixuan: I have also been thinking about the question of women's education. I feel that many contemporary questions in society, many bad phenomena, some come from women and some from men. Take for example the question of mistresses. Women who are willing to be mistresses have a problem with their values. There are also women who have forgotten that they are women, have forgotten their own natural affinities. They devote themselves entirely to their careers, and work until they are in their 30s before they realize that they should have a family, that they should get married and have children. Then either they don't get married or by the time they are married they are too old to have children, and when they realize this they are devastated. What I am thinking about now is how Confucianism should teach modern women so that they maintain traditional moral standards and also meet the challenges of modern social life.

Jiang Qing: This has nothing to do with Buddhism, but rather with Confucianism. Confucianism dominated education in ancient times, and from the time of their birth, women were naturally educated in the culture of the larger society. Women didn't necessarily go to school, they had no need to be like the boys who read the classics and took the exams. But when they were young, they would learn from their mothers and grandmothers how to be a good girl, which means how to be a good woman. This education was carried out through daily life. This is no longer the case. Now our daily life is completely Westernized, and family education has declined. The idea is that this would be replaced by education in the schools, but what is taught in the schools are Western values and Western views of women, in other words it teaches girls how to grow up independent and free.

Faced with this situation, what we need to do is to have the family carry out Confucian preschool education before the girls go to school. Of course, we also need for educational groups outside of the family to take up this educational work, so that there are classes and lectures on the topic. (Fan: Zhu Xi in his Elementary Learning Xiaoxue 小学 also said that 14-year old girls should learn to do something). Right, because at the present Confucianism is weak, not like the Catholics who have believers organized into women's leagues, that devote themselves to the education of girls in Catholic families. If Confucians had this sort of women's league, then we could devote ourselves to the work of educating women, and could use the examples of modern women to mould the female personality.

China currently has the Women's Association 妇联, but this is basically a political organization, and they don't engage in this kind of thing. Of course, things are a little better now, and we're starting to propagate Confucian values, for example promoting filial piety and respect for the elderly. This return of Confucian values will proceed slowly, since at present the Confucian revival is just beginning and remains fragile. There's a great resistance to carrying out [Confucian] education. I have observed that Catholicism currently pays attention to two questions: education and marriage. The Catholic church pours its energy into education, and builds elementary schools and middle schools all over the place. Even in Protestant countries like the US, most [private?] schools are Catholic. This is because Catholicism believes that education is extremely important, so that if they have primary and secondary schools, they can promote Catholic values in these schools, and use these Catholic values to transform young men and women.

Consequently, as we today revive Confucian values, books like Biographies of Virtuous Women, Confucian teachings designed for women, remain important teaching materials that can resolve the problem of educating women in modern society. Of course, to do this will require that we make progress in correcting the extreme demonization of Confucian thought of the "May Fourth" period.

Translator's Notes

[1] Jiang Qing 蒋庆, “只有儒家能安顿现代女性,”interview dated August 12, 2015, originally available online at https://www.rujiazg.com/article/id/6034/. A pdf of the original Chinese site is here.

[2] For a concise introduction to Jiang’s ideas, see Jiang Qing and Daniel A. Bell, “A Confucian Constitution for China,” The New York Times, July 11, 2012, available online at https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/opin ... china.html. For a more detailed study, see Jiang Qing, A Confucian Constitutional Order: How China’s Ancient Past Can Shape its Political Future, Daniel A. Bell and Ruiping Fan, eds., (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2012).

[3] See for example Zeng Yi 曾亦 and Guo Xiaodong 郭晓东, eds., What is Universal? Whose Values? 何谓普世?谁的价值? (Shanghai: Huadong shifan daxue chubanshe, 2013), a transcript of the oral proceedings of a conference organized by Mainland New Confucians in Shanghai in November 2011. Jiang Qing was not in attendance.

[4] This is a deformation of a quote from the Confucian Analects, based on a confusion between two characters: 汝 an archaic character meaning "you" and 女, the character meaning women. Thus while Confucius meant "you and petty people are hard to take," directing his remark at a particular disciple, over time the object of his remark was taken to be "women". See http://baike.baidu.com/view/1408365.htm.

[5] The "three obediences" were to the father (as a daughter), to the husband (as a wife), and to the sons (as a widow). The "four virtues" included proper womanly morality, speech, appearance, and work ethic.

[6] The May Fourth period, from roughly 1915-1930, is often identified as “China’s Enlightenment,” an iconoclastic moment when many intellectuals and young people broke definitively with Confucianism, which they blamed for Chinese weakness and backwardness. Throughout this interview, quotes are added to the expression “May Fourth,” signaling Confucian skepticism as to the validity of the criticisms of Confucianism advanced at the time.

[7] Jiang uses the term 诸侯, which refers to the elite of the pre-dynastic period.

[8] Mencius, or Mengzi 孟子 (372-289), was the best known Confucian after Confucius himself.

[9] Sima Guang 司马光 (1019-1086) was a famous Song dynasty Confucian scholar.

[10] Zhu Xi 朱熹 (1130-1200) was a Song dynasty scholar famed for having created Neoconfucianism.

[11] Wang Yangming 王阳明 (1427-1529) was a famous Ming Confucian who reacted against certain currents in Neoconfucian thought as formulated by Zhu Xi.

[12] Liu Zongzhou 刘宗周 (1578-1645) was a famous Ming Confucian who criticized Wang Yangming's attacks on Zhu Xi's Neoconfucianism.

[13] Kang Youwei 康有為 (1858-1927) was a Qing dynasty Confucian scholar and modernizing reformer most often identified with the "Hundred Days' Reform" of 1898.

[14] This is a reference to Lu Xun’s 魯迅 famous story, “Diary of a Madman 狂人日記,” first published in 1918, in which Lu, modern China’s most famous writer, compared the conformism of traditional Confucian society to cannibalism.

[15] Gu Hongming 辜鴻銘 (1857-1928), was from Penang, now part of Malaysia, and educated in Scotland. In the latter part of the nineteenth century, he moved to China where he served in various posts and came to be strongly identified with the imperial regime.

[16] Su Dongpo 苏东坡, or Su Shi 苏轼 (1037-1101) was a famous Song dynasty poet.

[17] The "three bonds" refer to the service that a minister owes to his lord, a son owes to his father, and a wife owes to her husband." The "five constants" refer to the five basic ethical principles regulating human life through proper hierarchy. For women, the important one is that "there is a difference between husband and wife."

[18] Han Yu 韩愈 (768-824) was a well-known Tang dynasty Confucian.

[19] Ouyang Xiu 欧阳修 (1007-72) was a famous Song dynasty Confucian scholar.

[20] Gu Yanwu 顾炎武 (1613-1668) was a famous Ming dynasty Confucian scholar.

[21] The Dream of the Red Chambers, or Hongloumeng 红楼梦, written by Cao Xueqin 曹雪芹 (1617-1763) is perhaps traditional China's finest novel.

[22] The seven justifications for divorce (七出)included: 1. Failure of the wife to obey the husband's parents; 2. Failure of the wife to produce a son; 3. Adultery; 4. Excessive jealousy on the part of the wife; 5. Serious illness (preventing, for example, performance of necessary rituals); 6. Excessive talkativeness; and 7. Theft.

[23] The three conditions precluding divorce (三不去) included: 1. When the woman did not have a parental home to return to; 2. When the woman had mourned the death of her in-laws for three years; and 3. When the woman married a poor man who subsequently became rich.

[24] Zhu An 朱安 (1878-1947) was married to Lu Xun in a traditional, arranged marriage. Lu Xun divorced her in protest of such practices.

[25] Hu Shi 胡適 (1891-1962) was a major intellectual during the May Fourth Period and later, and is seen as one of the major figures in Chinese liberalism.

[26] “Final resting place” 归宿, can also mean "destiny," or "final destination"; Jiang Qing seems to be using it in a way related to identity.

​[27] Liang Shuming 梁漱溟 (1893-1988) was an important philosopher and rural reformer in Republican-period China. He variously identified as Confucian or Buddhist, or both.
ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 1144
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses

Post by ricky_v »

ramana wrote:...
ha, jiang does not understand buddhism at all, which is to be expected as the buddhism that the chinese adopted focussed heavily on the cycle on rebirth as a mechanics, not on the religiosity of the movement; in that, he contends that the path of confucianism with the focus on societal ethics and morality and the end goal of the soul which is blessed by heaven to look after the souls of their progeny should be the superior system; also, as expected from a confucian angle, all things are binary, good and evil, he does not account for context at all.

a long standing "problem" wrt to the chinese has been their lack of religiosity, they have filial piety and they have sets of rules to follow for a moral living, even during the taiping rebellion, people fought for the rebel because he was the self-proclaimed "brother of Christ". In the below passage and throughout the entire quoted section, they want to rework a system to accommodate some sense of attachment for the ultimate goal of purposefully serving the community at large, no second thought is attached to a personal connection with a higher entity, they have taken the rituality of auguries derived by ancient shamans present across all peoples and stripped bare the religiosity attached to it.

Fan Bixuan: I think that Confucianism should look for a solution to this problem in its original teachings, and devise a set of theories appropriate to modern women who wish to cultivate themselves and manage their families. This would allow women to find self-confidence in Confucianism. In Buddhist scriptures, we can locate here and there passages that express a concern for women. Of course, some of these are no more than a kind of psychological comfort, but they still express a Buddhist concern and empathy for women.

Jiang Qing: I know. What you are talking about is a question of life or death of the soul. It's not like the various questions concerning society and the family that we've just been talking about. We've been talking about the family, society, and politics, but what you're worried about here is an otherworldly matter. To put it in Buddhist technical terms, Confucianism deals with worldly matters, which is what we've been talking about to this point. Buddhism transcends worldly affairs, as well as people's natural gender and social affinities to look squarely at the meaning of life, and views all forms of life as equal, which of course includes men and women as well. In fact, the question you raised exists for men as well. Once they believe in Buddhism, then distinctions between men and women no longer exist, there are no more family roles or social mobility. The five ethical relationships no longer exist, nor do this-worldly ethical standards or value standards. Everything becomes selflessness and co-arising as if you're floating in a dream. Everything is empty. The Buddhist Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra both explain this.

Nonetheless, even if Confucianism concentrates on this-worldly affairs, it still has its transcendent dimension. On questions concerning the existence of god, the eternal nature of the soul, and the meaning of life, Confucianism has its own points of view, and from a religious standpoint, Confucianism can be the Confucian faith. Still, Confucianism's original point of departure is not like Buddhism, and did not set out to solve the problem of man's release from the cycle of life and death, but instead focused on solving problems of the meaning of life that went beyond questions of belief. Since the Buddha’s original goal was to break through the cycle of life and death, the vast numbers of Buddhist writings that followed in his wake continued to devote a great deal of time to this question.

By contrast, Confucius created his teachings so as to foster a sincere faith that heaven would realize man's heavenly dictated nature, and the transcendent meaning and sacred value of this nature. As for the question of whether the soul was immortal, when we read the Book of Poetry or the Book of Rites we find an answer. Confucians also believed that the soul was immortal, just as the Buddhists did, but Confucians had no notion of reincarnation. The idea that the soul is eternal is the basic characteristic of all religions, and Confucianism is no exception. But different religions have different teachings about this. Buddhism has its elaborate theory of reincarnation, and Christianity has its theories about the final judgement. Confucianism rejects both reincarnation and the final judgement, and believes that the soul of a good man ascends to heaven "to be close to God" and enjoy heavenly blessings. The soul of an evil man becomes an evil spirit and cannot ascend to heaven, but rather stays on earth to harm people.

In addition, Confucianism accords much importance to ritual, especially funeral rituals. The precondition of offering sacrifices to the gods is that the soul must be eternal, as is life. If the soul perishes, then ritual offerings have no meaning, because the point of ritual offerings is to facilitate the movement of the soul from the heavens to the human world where it can partake of the ritual offerings.

In traditional Chinese Confucianism, both men and women took ritual occasions very seriously. These occasions enabled them to communicate with the spirit world, thus evidencing the eternal nature of life. In the Book of Poetry, especially the Ernan 二南 section, there are many women who participated in ritual. Indeed, women were entrusted with the preparation of many rituals, which they treated with reverence and engaged in actively. Collecting ritual plants, purification, and arrangement of ritual instruments were all tasks that were allocated to women.

As long as you do not engage in evil affairs, your soul can receive eternal blessings in heaven. This doesn't mean that once the soul is in heaven there's nothing more to do. The soul of a good person has to take care of his or her sons and grandsons. This is true for both men and women; there is no difference. That said, we must admit that Confucian scholars after the Han period did not accord enough importance to belief in the eternal soul, which leads many people to feel that Confucianism is lacking on this question when compared to Buddhism, and thus fails to provide the necessary comfort to those concerned with questions of life and death.

Why is it that the things you feel in Buddhism, you feel less in Confucianism? In part this is a lack in Confucianism, because Confucianism is the learning of an elite, mainly concerned with questions of good governance, so that it accorded less attention to such questions. Even if we do find materials in Confucianism to address such questions, it is not where the focus has been, and this is the fault of Confucianism, which must be elevated and improved. From another perspective, women are less interested than men when it comes to involving themselves in social or political life, and for those who are interested in this side of life, Buddhism offers relatively little, since it does not address questions of politics or ritual.

Song-Ming Confucians talked about the nature of the heart-mind 心性, which they drew from Buddhism and gave their writings a little Buddhist feeling, but Han Confucianism does not feel at all like Buddhism because Han Confucians talked about good government. Even if life and death questions were a concern for Han Confucians, it was not their primary concern, which was how to govern the country. So they had no feeling for Buddhism. From another angle, women were relatively uninterested in politics, society, ritual, etc., and even if in modern times there are some women who are interested in society and politics, they remain a minority, and most women are by nature creatures of feeling, introverted, while men by nature are rational and extraverted. For this reason, Buddhism can readily move women, because it is unconcerned with society and politics, and is focused on questions of life or death. Life and death questions are closest to questions of one's own life, and can incite feelings of empathy, which is why they affect women and their feelings, leading them to believe that Buddhism is attractive.

The questions you ask about the end of life or about release from life are perhaps important for introspective, sensitive women, but are less so for men. For example, Liang Shuming 梁漱溟[27] was a Buddhist until the end of his life, but his principle concerns were about politics and government, the reconstruction of China and of China's villages. He achieved liberation in these political and social activities, which gave him a sense of belonging and accomplishment, thus fulfilling his life's meaning and his existential value. Since women are by nature sensitive and introverted, most of them will not be oriented toward exterior social and political activities and will not search for life's liberation of meaning therein.
Post Reply