Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

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ranjan.rao
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ranjan.rao »

More than the article, it's worthwhile going through the comments, these pigs think that they did favor to the afghans while hosting them during the years of turbulence, there is no mention of the taliban and the opium trade that these guys facilitated for decades to mint money..this is what happens when you brainwash entire masses...they become useful idiots...
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by deejay »

I was searching for some Pakistani view on Balochistan and their take on the historical contexts of Balochistan and I found this super duper India, Modi, Doval bashing Pakistani intellectual with a detailed talk on it. Kindly ignore the India bashing and rona dhona and listen to their perspective on Baloch history and how Balochistan is a justified part of Pakistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDzdu2VnXH8

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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by siddhu »

deejay wrote:I was searching for some Pakistani view on Balochistan and their take on the historical contexts of Balochistan and I found this super duper India, Modi, Doval bashing Pakistani intellectual with a detailed talk on it. Kindly ignore the India bashing and rona dhona and listen to their perspective on Baloch history and how Balochistan is a justified part of Pakistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDzdu2VnXH8

Its says private video
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by deejay »

Sorry Siddhu ji. I saw the video and then posted it. It shows "private" to even me now.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Dilbu »

X Posted
PM Modi’s pictures and Indian flag raised during protests in Balochistan
Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s mention of Balochistan in his Independence Day speech is witnessing widespread consequences. While some oppose and others stand with it, on Wednesday his pictures of PM Modi along with Baloch martyr and freedom fighter Akbar Bugti were held in protests in Balochistan. The Indian flag was also raised with these pictures.
Soon after PM Modi in his speech at the Red Fort said that the people in Gilgit-Baltistan have “thanked him”, responses from the latter and others have been pouring in. These protests come after five cases were registered against separatists Baloch leaders for allegedly supporting the Modi’s statements. Complaints against Baloch leaders Brahamdagh Bugti, Harbiyar Marri and Banuk Karima Baloch was registered after a petition was filed at five police stations in Khuzdar area, Balochistan.
Thanking PM Modi and other Indians for their support, Brahumdagh Bugti, grandson of slain Baloch leader Bugti said, “We hope not only the Indian government but every Indian citizen will support our struggle. The Indian media and film industry can play an important role by highlighting the struggle. If the world fails to support them, it loses its only friend in the region ridden with religious extremism and terrorism.” On the other hand, Balochistan Chief Minister Sanaullah Zehri dismissed Modi’s statements saying that India was responsible for fomenting terrorism in their province and that people of Balochistan were indeed loyal to Pakistan.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

^^^^

Actually ISI need to have a review of intelligence failure when NaMo raised Baluchistan HR abuses when the focus of their attention was Cashmere.
This is a big intelligence failure on their part.
Its almost like STASI failed to understand the Berlin Wall collapse.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by disha »

Totally., ISI takes in a whole bunch of money and could not even analyze the possibility of Indian PM thanking Baluchistan for their warm wishes to India!!

Most likely the Jernails got their kanadian, UK or US visas.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by sanjaykumar »

Let not India use these valiant and long suffering people, the Baloch. Better to steer clear of Baluchistan if India's only aim is to apply leverage against Pakistan.




There is a profound cultural meaning to invoking, in any way, raksha bandhan.

Parenthetically, the Hindu settlers in Britain had a ceremony where young girls did the the same with the security forces, https://www.gov.uk/government/news/arme ... ha-bandhan
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

Err NaMo is not like yesterday leaders of last 68 years.

Earlier Indian leaders saw Pakistan as a threat/challenger to fight decisive battles and rest on laurels for illusive peace. Eg. 1948, 1965, 1971 and 1999 and even 2002.
however gradual Islamization of Pakistan means this is an eternal threat which has to be destroyed as it has nukes now.
Only answer for an eternal threat is to remove it.

Supporting Baluchistan rights for self determination is a key national interest.
He has defined the what and by who.
The how and when are resource driven.

He just offered POK residents assistance for terrorism victims just as for Indians.
Even Indian experts did not see NaMo would support Baluchistan.
Luttwak's logic of strategy says to "do the unexpected!"

Everyone expected him to raise issues in POK.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by svinayak »

Baloch has international support.
All countries who oppose China will support Bulochistan independence
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by panduranghari »

ramana wrote:Err NaMo is not like yesterday leaders of last 68 years.

Earlier Indian leaders saw Pakistan as a threat/challenger to fight decisive battles and rest on laurels for illusive peace. Eg. 1948, 1965, 1971 and 1999 and even 2002.
however gradual Islamization of Pakistan means this is an eternal threat which has to be destroyed as it has nukes now.
Only answer for an eternal threat is to remove it.

Supporting Baluchistan rights for self determination is a key national interest.
He has defined the what and by who.
The how and when are resource driven.

He just offered POK residents assistance for terrorism victims just as for Indians.
Even Indian experts did not see NaMo would support Baluchistan.
Luttwak's logic of strategy says to "do the unexpected!"

Everyone expected him to raise issues in POK.
Like Clausewitz who believed the war can either be a limited war or a absolute war. Those hoping to fight a limited war need to be willing to raise the stakes to absolute war. Pak is fighting an absolute war based on Islamic identity against India. While Indian Nehruvian elites wanted to believe it was a limited war and they played the game that way.

Pak has more to loose if India does not reduce the stakes.

The rationale for keeping the war limited is now lost from Indian perspective. Paki should now wait for their 72.

Luttwaks logic was also the logic raised by Mammon in Milton's paradise lost. Misfortunately, neither were Molloch nor were Belial were listened to. But then Satan knew what he wanted to do and got Beelzebub to do what Luttwak was trying to limit. Sorry to bring this reference but there is a simile there.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by vdutta »

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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by deejay »

A detailed blog on Baloch history, intra/ inter conflicts, conflicts with Pakistani military and tribes of Balochistan. Read to the end (my suggestion, though majority is a list of tribes and sub tribes).

https://balochilinguist.wordpress.com/2 ... ebellions/

Wikipedia link on Baloch tribes : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_pe ... och_tribes
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Gagan »

Balochistan and history: Mapwise

The coloured part is the current Balochistan province within Pakistan. These are the historical princely states, and some of the ethinic composition of the state. Quetta sort of forms the boundary where the Pashtun and Baloch separate. Now, Quetta is more of a pashtun city than a baloch city, the Taliban & the Quetta shura are in force there, boosted by the Pak fauj and its intel agencies.
Image
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Guddu »

So the question is are Modi's statements a shot across the bow, or a policy change. I think it's the former. The pigeon 's hand is obvious.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Sanju »

I am of the belief that the shot across the bow was delivered in early 2014 when pigeon had mentioned at one of his speeches prior to taking up office that there are soft points that we can trouble "you" with if you keep up with your shenanigans. Baluchistan was specifically referred to.

Please see the time, place and day when Namo made that reference. Independence Day from the ramparts of the Red Fort, when Namo was talking to All of India and these parts, for so long neglected, were specifically mentioned. It was as if Namo had included them in as Indians.

I feel that we are long past the shot across the bow stage, something has been afoot for a while, the consequences may show up this Winter.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by venug »

I think this could be more a strategic shift, why? Doval in one of his talks, mentions that of the three mechanisms(non-offensive defense, offensive-defense, overt offensive) available in engaging the enemy, we have only availed the first one so far. We will be using the second option when time comes that is hitting them where it hurts vis-a-vis Baluchistan. Now we see Modi ji announcing compensation to PoK residents and making statements about Balochistan. It is bit too early, but to me it seems, the strategy is shifting for good.

added later: Even though it could be a strategic shift, not sure it will be long lived one, given that Kurshit(most INC), thinks Balochistan is an internal matter of TSP, if policies are regime dependent, this shift could be rolled back anytime INC comes to power.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Gagan »

Deejay & Siddu ji,
Here is that video posted above which was "Private"

Bol Bol Pakistan with Nusrat Javed telecast on Aug 15, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfrYoNvYAr0
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by deejay »

@Gaganullah thanks.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by SwamyG »

Guddu wrote:So the question is are Modi's statements a shot across the bow, or a policy change. I think it's the former. The pigeon 's hand is obvious.
It now looks like it is the handywork of Jitender Singh and Ram Madhav.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

I think we should debate incorporating Baluchistan as a state or let it become independent?
Latter option i as lots of foreign powers will rush in and exploit it.

One more option is to let it become Union territory for 30 years and then let it become independent.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ranjan.rao »

Ramana sir you are thinking quite ahead..I am still stuck on questions e.g.
1. How will India be able to provide the armed resistance some form of support, in what shape that will be money, training or arms or a combination of some or all:
How will Chabahar help India in this
Will Iran/Afghanistan and US have some role in it
2. How will porki nukes be secured/neutralized: assuming they dont offload all on us.
3. How will china react to such cartographic changes esp in light of her ~40 Bn USD investments(read soft loans)
4. What will happen to chinese investments during the course of action and afterwards; chinese are not gonna sit quietly in a corner and watch the whole movie eating popcorn
5. Will Iran be asking for some pie of Balochistan?
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

RR, Will answer all slowly.

Baloch Liberation Army: Marris-One of oldest

http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmi ... s/view/297

Baloch Republican army: Bugtis - Most aggressive outfit per Stanford website

http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmi ... s/view/571

Balochistan Liberation Front -One of oldest

http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmi ... s/view/457

-------------------------
there are other forces we need to document
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Karthik S »

Not sure how porous Iran-Baluchistan border is. If it is, then we can try to sneak in humanitarian supplies. The pakis will have to dedicate men and material to check for this cross border business, putting additional pressure on their resources.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by krisna »

SwamyG wrote:
Guddu wrote:So the question is are Modi's statements a shot across the bow, or a policy change. I think it's the former. The pigeon 's hand is obvious.
It now looks like it is the handywork of Jitender Singh and Ram Madhav.

Both are correct in some ways.
NSA has mentioned about weak points in terroristan to exploit. In fact he has articulated it nicely few time,famous being the brilliant lecture at shastra university in TN during waning period of upa. Unfortunatley the entire YouTube lecture taken down due to some unknown reason.

From what I know, de fence and intelligence folks wanted to do this covertly but sickular politicos stonewalled it for long. Intelligence wing were always for damaging and keeping terroristan on back foot.

For the first time , an asture politician n the right mould for Indian interests has agreed that time has come for this approach.

Yes Jitendra Singh mp from udhampur J&k and Ram Madhav RSS ideologue who were for the present dispensation with Sayeed family rule gave valuable inputs regarding political fallout to help NaMo take the decision.

I firmly believe with NaMo at helm it is only matter of when he will take this decision and not "if" as with sickular dispensation
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by arun »

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

MEA on Balochistan on the tenth anniversary of the extra judicial slaughter of Nawab Akbar Bugti by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Punjabi Military dominated “Deep State”:
Question: I want to ask you a question about Balochistan. Today they are marking the tenth anniversary of Nawab Akbar Bugti, who they say is the father of Balochistan and the Baloch struggle. Since the Prime Minister’s statement there are several killing that have taken place, the Balochistan Republic Party has said that there are at least 40 people that have been killed and 150 have gone missing from Dera Bugti after the Pakistan army’s operation. So how does India look at it and also what are the plans because there are a lot of expectations globally?

Official Spokesperson, Shri Vikas Swarup: I would say that India has a strong human rights record at home and we are naturally concerned at the gross violations of human rights in the area that you have mentioned. How this is expressed in our diplomacy is something that you will have to wait and see.
From here:

Clicky
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by darshhan »

ramana wrote:I think we should debate incorporating Baluchistan as a state or let it become independent?
Latter option i as lots of foreign powers will rush in and exploit it.

One more option is to let it become Union territory for 30 years and then let it become independent.

Only if sindh is included too in India
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by kit »

Baluchistan needs to an independent nation much like Bangladesh . The whole world needs to support it . India should not be giving just token support., partitioning Pakistan will go a big way in negating that threat once and for all .
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by kit »

As regards fears regarding exploitation will be there at some point when it becomes independent ..its already a state ..no need to experiment ..india had its hands full with kashmir why try another one ? ..is it worth it ?
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by SwamyG »

krisna wrote: NSA has mentioned about weak points in terroristan to exploit. In fact he has articulated it nicely few time,famous being the brilliant lecture at shastra university in TN during waning period of upa. Unfortunatley the entire YouTube lecture taken down due to some unknown reason.
I take the sole and whole credit for discovering that video, on youtube, and posting it here on BRF. Then, as they say, the rest is history. :rotfl:

Kya unknown reason, it must have been by you know who for what reasons. :rotfl:
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by kit »

ranjan.rao wrote:Ramana sir you are thinking quite ahead..I am still stuck on questions e.g.
1. How will India be able to provide the armed resistance some form of support, in what shape that will be money, training or arms or a combination of some or all:
How will Chabahar help India in this
Will Iran/Afghanistan and US have some role in it
2. How will porki nukes be secured/neutralized: assuming they dont offload all on us.
3. How will china react to such cartographic changes esp in light of her ~40 Bn USD investments(read soft loans)
4. What will happen to chinese investments during the course of action and afterwards; chinese are not gonna sit quietly in a corner and watch the whole movie eating popcorn
5. Will Iran be asking for some pie of Balochistan?
Iran would rightly be worried about the Baluchis ..they are very much like kurds vs Turkey !! .. but if their relations with pakistan go south ..they will have the perfect reason ..and India needs to do exactly that. The Iranians will do part of our job . As regards the chinese ,they are used to having a lot of their investments go down the drain ., so it will be in Baluchistan .. too much money what to do :mrgreen:
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by nirav »

sanjaykumar wrote:Let not India use these valiant and long suffering people, the Baloch. Better to steer clear of Baluchistan if India's only aim is to apply leverage against Pakistan.




There is a profound cultural meaning to invoking, in any way, raksha bandhan.

Parenthetically, the Hindu settlers in Britain had a ceremony where young girls did the the same with the security forces, https://www.gov.uk/government/news/arme ... ha-bandhan
She spoke a few lines in Gujju !!
Invoking Raksha bandhan and speaking in our languages, these folks are really reaching out to us !

I feel sorry for them, as real politik stands, India just might not be able to give them what they want. :(
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Lilo »

Keep the faith folks - now that indian support has been proclaimed to Balochistan in an Independence day speech direct from the ramparts of Redfort, the actions will be conforming to the words said.
Image

The first ever television interview with #Balochistan leader #BarhamdagBugti from Geneva. Coming soon on DD News.

https://twitter.com/DDNewsLive/status/7 ... 5606003712
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by SriKumar »

nirav wrote:I feel sorry for them, as real politik stands, India just might not be able to give them what they want. :(
As far as the video is concerned, not really. She is very specific about what she asked: to raise the matter in international fora about missing/disappeared people (i.e. those picked up by the Pakistani army). She wants the issue of missing people and human rights publicized by Modi. In a way, Modi has already started this, with his Red Fort speech. She was quite specific in asking for nothing more, by saying 'hum apne jang khud ladenge' (we will fight our own war) Caveat: She represents some student association in some local college/university and nothing more.
Last edited by SriKumar on 28 Aug 2016 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by Kashi »

PoK diaspora to get red carpet for Pravasi Divas
NEW DELHI: As tension in the Kashmir Valley refuses to die down, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is ratcheting up the Balochistan issue to rattle Pakistan, both at home and abroad.

The neighbour, who has been encouraging meetings between separatist leaders and successive High Commissioners in Delhi, will be further discomfited when residents of PoK and Gilgit-Baltistan arrive to attend the Pravasi Bharatiya Divas to be organised in Bengaluru on 7 January 2017.

Mission Balochistan doesn’t end there. Pre-freedom activist Mir Mazdak Baloch will start organising camps in Delhi to garner support for the cause. He will be delivering talks at universities and has been granted a visa to travel across the country to highlight the Baloch humanitarian crisis. Mir Mazdok has a speaking engagement in Jawaharlal Nehru University this week.

On Saturday, Doordarshan interviewed the grandson of assassinated Baloch leader Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti on his ‘Martyr Day’. The activist died in a Pakistan military action on August 26, 2006.

“Many Baloch came to India about a century ago during tribal wars. They have settled down in Uttar Pradesh, Haryana and Rajasthan. We share blood ties. Our aim is to connect with them,” says Mazdak.
.....
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

ranjan.rao wrote:Ramana sir you are thinking quite ahead..I am still stuck on questions e.g.
1. How will India be able to provide the armed resistance some form of support, in what shape that will be money, training or arms or a combination of some or all:
How will Chabahar help India in this
Will Iran/Afghanistan and US have some role in it
2. How will porki nukes be secured/neutralized: assuming they dont offload all on us.
3. How will china react to such cartographic changes esp in light of her ~40 Bn USD investments(read soft loans)
4. What will happen to chinese investments during the course of action and afterwards; chinese are not gonna sit quietly in a corner and watch the whole movie eating popcorn
5. Will Iran be asking for some pie of Balochistan?
1. India can above all have them present a united front. Right now they are like fingers and can be broken individually. So make them into a fist. A combination of all three and medical facility in Iran and Afghanistan.
- Chahbahar is far in future.
- Don't know about others. But tacit understanding as their own security is being jeopardized by Pakistan.
2. Porki nukes are a concern. But cant let fear scare us. More time increases the threat as Deejay writes.
3 & 4. China has to negotiate with new rulers if they want. In beginning they might think they can interfere. But as uprisinng increases they need to make a decision.
5. Iran has a concern with own Balochis. Greece had a concern with Macedonia. But has been addressed. Besides if Iran is not in agreement with this, its own security will get jeopardized as Pak plays Baloch card on them.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by ramana »

Need to mkae Indian DDM when it comes to foreign affairs to keep their bile in themselves.
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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by SwamyG »

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Re: Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide

Post by SwamyG »

nirav wrote:meaning to invoking, in any way, raksha bandhan.
I feel sorry for them, as real politik stands, India just might not be able to give them what they want. :(
As of now they are just asking Modi and India to be their voice. As she mentioned they will do their 'jung'; for now India can raise the Balochistan issue.
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