Indian Foreign Policy

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Manish_P
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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Manish_P » 28 Dec 2019 19:30

vishvak wrote:
Have they expressed a desire to be such? I always thought that they wanted a 'free'/'Azaad' Balochistan

From earlier Baloch leader to approach India
By the way anyone notice how much of Chinese debt burdern is on baloch. 'international' or such don't seem to notice except China ('because') who loot everyone.


Yes. Exactly what i said. They want our (and others) help for their 'Freedom'. They do not want to be a part of India.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 29 Dec 2019 09:08

So much for all the MEA's a*se- licking the Saudis imagining vast monies in investment and an anti-Pak stance being displayed,and India joining the anti-Iranian ranks of nations led by the US.

The Soothi Barbarians in an effort to placate the Pakis in forcing them not to attend the Islamic summit in KL,where Muslim nations like Qatar, Malaysia,Turkey and others who do not kowtow to the Soothis are forming their own grouping, are now going to host a special OIC meeting devoted to Kashmir! This is being done to stroke the backside of the Pakis.Who are being made to look like fools? India.

The beauty of Paki foreign policy is to behave like bandicoots,promote terrorism globally, sell nuclear tech. illegally,
be a willing rent boy, to anyone with money and watch your fortunes look after themselves.It pays to be bad-ass as a Yanqui would say. In contrast, Indian diplomacy looks flat-footed, menial and boring, always looking over its shoulder not to upset Uncle Sam (or Comrade Xi ).That benevolent gent Sam, is secretly cutting his own deal with Pak to extricate the US out of Afghanistan leaving the country to the Taliban and Pakis.

Where does all this leave India? None the wiser I'm afraid when the MEA remains in control by spineless jellyfish who should instead not just be talking tough, but also putting money where their mouths are and giving it back in return.Our spinelessness against China is the most disgraceful of all.A $ 60B trade deficit goes unanswered by the Chins, and our economy keeps plunging where the affected citizens know what needs to be done; banning cheap Chin goods flooding into India destroying our med.,small and micro industries while our political and babu classes pontificate in Delhi, hoping for a good monsoon and like Mr. Micawber, that " something will turn up" by itself relieving India of its economic woes. There was a wonderful phrase in the media today about economic experts bemoaning the lack of public spending sending the economy into a downward spiral , saying that " govt. spending was a spent force"!

The Saudi backstab is the shape of more to come.Busybodies in the US are sharpening their knives over the CAA, etc. The western press is having a field day at the policies of the current dispensation. Our dpl. troubles are only beginning.
Last edited by Philip on 29 Dec 2019 09:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby NRao » 29 Dec 2019 09:16

Philip wrote:Our dpl. troubles are only beginning


As I recall Modi had stated two things:

1) Things will get tougher
2) That at the end of this 5 year cycle the BJP should be able to carry the next election cycle without using his (Modi's) name

In addition, I have seen pictures - taken, I am guessing, about 30 years ago - that very clearly state some of the things Modi is executing. I do not agree with him all the time, but, the more I research I find that Modi is delivering what Modi has said he will deliver.

From his PoV I bet he has gamed much of the opposition. Perhaps he should have paced the various events, but none of these is a surprise.

Also, GoI is terrible at communications, PR, marketing, etc. The house is on fire and things are fine.

IMHO (again, I do not agree with some of the things he does), need to stop watching Bollywood and cricket and get to work.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 29 Dec 2019 09:49

The BJP need to promote a second-string of young dynamic leaders who can inspire the people and extract meaningful work
out of the babus.I fear that the govt. is not getting totally accurate input from the bureauracracy who had it very cushy and comfy in UPA times under the most corrupt govt. ever led by Snake-oil Singh. I agree about the " Crookit"! I've stopped watching it for years after the match- fixing scandals erupted and a venal and self- serving BCCI led by " Napoleon" Srinivasan tried to turn Indian cricket into a private co. along with his cronies.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2020 07:54

India is losing its friends ,facing increasing global isolation: Says ex- foreign sec. ,NSA ,Shivshankar Menon. The CAA and NRC are
part of a " cumulative effect of a series of actions,including what happened in Kashmir....and we seem to know that we are isolated.We ducked a meeting with US legislators " said Menon.

He also said that global public opinion has shifted in the last few months...It is a self- inflicted goal." Even India's friends were speaking in a dismissive manner." Let them fight among themselves" was said by the BDesh FM.

What the world thinks matters more today than ever before.We depend upon it for tech.,markets,fertilisers,etc.Disengaging or going it alone is not an option but we're isolating ourselves he said.

While some may disagree with SM, the fact is that the Saudis and Gulf countries are now siding with Pak over Kashmir and organising an OIC meet specially to discuss it to be held most likely in Pak itself! Our MEA has been caught flat-footed and out-foxed, clueless as to the rapidly changing international opinion and equation of India. As I've said many a time,putting our eggs in the Saudi-US basket and abandoning Iran which gives us encirclement of Pak was an asinine act. We will be unable to take strong diplomatic measures against the OIC Gulf/ Saudi regimes because of the massive Indian diaspora working in the ME bringing in much needed foreign shekels.If they're forced to leave will we be able to employ them ? No way with the economy in a downward spiral .

At the same time we spinelessly allow China to literally " steal" a $ 60B trade deficit ,dumping cheap,shoddy Chin goods into the country destroying our local industry.Yesterday's media had a report that a 150 yr. old famous factory in Calicut producing the famous Calicut roof tiles was to close mainly because of poor govt. support and the import of cheap Chinese tiles. One by one we're losing our manufacturing industry throwing lakhs out of work,but our MEA and govt. seem supine and impotent at countering this catastrophe.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2020 14:04

Philip, Sad you agree with SSM. He is a political minion. As for OIC look at how much aid use gave. $200m when the demand was for $2B.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby nvishal » 04 Jan 2020 16:07

Philip wrote:Even India's friends were speaking in a dismissive manner

There are no friends of India in the Muslim world or in the US block. Menon is part of the rooster that enabled gazwa-e-hind to continue for all these decades. By defining who "indians" are, the modi govt seeks to uproot non-indics from the subcontinent. In ethnolinguistal politics, some lingual castes might see it as a threat to them.

For eg: dalit militants will see the disappearance of Islam as a threat to them. Dravidian politicians with also see it in similar light. Culturally uprooted castes in Kerala have no leverage over new delhi and have continued to play the part of a menace in national politics. Ignore Menon. His castes fall will mark the rise of the erstwhile Hindustan.

Many castes declared non-local by the vigiliance will eventually flow into west Bengal and kerala to regroup and resupply. This is not something new to bharat. There have always been rebel kingdoms conspiring plots against other kingdoms. The people of these kingdoms paid a hefty price by way of partition. There is no one to blame for the partition of the Bengal and Punjab states but the people of these two ethno-lingual groups themselves. The only way Kerala can survive the coming collapse is if it can wage an internal war to remove the tumour. IMO, it has already undergone metstatis and the focus is now to see if Karnataka can contain itself from the southern collapse. Tamil identity is solidly shielded by Dravidian politics.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 05 Jan 2020 07:25

SSM has simply stated what is happening to us in the international arena which does nnot require being his camp follower. The Q is not how much flows in aid from the OIC but the fact that Pak is getting vital breathing spacd again after being on the ventilator. More nations parroting the Paki tune on Kashmir simply complicates our diplomatic strategy.Moreover the nationwide protests over the CAA- and you can take your pick where you stand on it,but we are a democracy and the opposition to it is nationwide and has attracted much international attention as much as the Hong Kong protests. This has even got the UN criticising it,that worthy institution where we are stroking nations aplenty for support for a UNSC seat, which to me is a worthless exercise in a failing outfit, but we're lusting after it and doing party tricks to convince UN membets to support us!

If anyone thinks that our foreign policy is on track, they're deluding themselves. Most of our neighbours dislike us are sucking up to China and BDesh ,our closest neighbour is also shrugging its shoulders at our state. We are nowhere in the international pecking order.We've run away from NAM and attempting to compete with Pak for thf title of reng boy of S.Asia! On major issues we merely whisper, wondering if what we say will offend China or the US,etc. Is India's voice, that of the world's largest democracy,that of second largest peoples on the planet being heard and considered at all? We simply keep silent when ours should be heard loud and clear. Our gutless,spineless foreign policy of sitting on the fence being all things to all nations ,is seeing us getting shafted with the spear up our nether end. Mortal enemy China's $ 60B trade advantage with us is killing our economy and our MEA worthies have given Huawei - being banned globally for security concerns, the green light to compete for 5G !

PS: Bengal and Punjab were divided by diabolic Britain,perfidious Albion,may the perpetrators of it rot in hell, and NOT by the local people, who suffered mightily under the British Raj. But does every Indian ( minority citizen) have to prove his loyalty and patriotism ad nauseum and wear it on his sleeve or chest like a yellow star like a Jew?

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby sanjaykumar » 05 Jan 2020 13:21

Phillip, the short answer is....no.

But you should understand that Hindus have been doubly enslaved, reviled and impoverished by the only two prosyltising religions. It is certainly an anomaly that the desert people seek to harm others to glorify their god. I have never had a Yazidi, Zorastrian, African animist, Taoist try to convert me. Nor a Jew or a Sikh or a Hindu.

Please consider that prosleytisation may be repugnant and deeply offensive to these other cultures. If I may put it bluntly conversion has more to do with these other people’s needs than the heathens’.

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches have an understanding not to poach each other’s congregants. I think it is reasonable to extend the courtesy to non Christians. It would only be the civilized thing to do.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby nvishal » 05 Jan 2020 13:26

Philip,

1) Resistance against Islam has multiplied with the 00s rise of internet communication. The Arabs have understood this and already taken a backseat(being neutral), leaving their mamluk colonies (pak, afg, malaysia, turkey etc) alone by themselves, who are now trying to rebel and fight; albeit without the blessings of the master.

2) The CAA protests are mostly constrained within ghettos, leftist tents within Hindu constituencies and rebel caste states(Kerala, wb). I don't think modi or shah is loosing sleep over it.

3) Our neighbors(pak, afg, sl, bd etc) are sovereign states. If you want them to sing to your tune, then invade and merge them back with undivided India. These states can be a friend or a foe of India - the choice is theirs.

4) Castes in India have been infighting well before Alexander arrived. It wasn't hard for them to realize that they could use religion(Islam, xtianity) as a tool/weapon against another caste. Many of the castes in Punjab and Bengal fell due to this core conspiracy. They ended up hurting their own ethnolingual community in their failed attempt to contain their own sub-castes. Today, the Punjabi castes have very little leverage in the power corridors of new Delhi and they fade further each year. The same is happening with the Bengali castes. Kerala is on the same path as Punjab and Bengal. The position of offense is a double edged sword, one just a little more sharper.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2020 02:05

SSM belongs to the Gungadin coterie of IFS.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Vikas » 06 Jan 2020 20:17

^^ Why should one pay attention to flop retired biased Babus who are responsible for shackling Bharat. It aint that anyone was a genius. We are the ones berating Indian Babudom forever and suddenly what they say becomes oh-so-erudite.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2020 00:08

He is now getting press and hence people need to be reminded of his shoddy track record.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby NRao » 09 Jan 2020 06:17

Jan 7, 2020:


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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 12 Jan 2020 19:17

CAA protests are not from the ghettos.Lakhs of young students across the country for whatever reason are protesting. I am not arguing the issue,only stating facts.Simply branding them Leftist or Cong. is simplistic, the Left has little influence these days,the youth simply want a better future.

Ok, ignore our neighbours, let them go suck their thumbs,but then we are not an isolationist nation like Albania! We are the second most populist nation on earth who should be at the forefront of international diplomacy ,not lagging behind ex- colonialist islands like Britain. We were far better off internationally when Mrs. Gandhi was PM.We dismembered Pak into two, led the NAM all with a middle grade military equipment wise ,without the latest tech. or a nuclear weapon.Yet through brilliant diplomacy and military action we held off the US,West and China. Today thanks to lack of vision, our MEA can't even prevent the Chinese onslaught and penetration of Nepal, Sri Lanka- they're still there in Burma no matter our gift of a Kilo sub, in Afghanistan, and keep on reinforcing the Paki comventional and nuclear prowess.They're in Gwadar and POK too. We can now add Malaysia to the list of those who dislike our policies and we are barely maintaining our ties with Iran.Our a*selickin' Trump and the US has seen the cooperation militaire beyween Russia and China only increase. Good luck to the MEA, its doing splendidly!

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby uddu » 12 Jan 2020 19:59

:rotfl: ^^^The effect of propaganda on your mind. Stop surrendering to it. What just happened is India got woken up from a deep slumber of the dangers within and outside.We could see for real the enemies within, the fools within, the violent ones the brainwashed ones etc. What you have not seen is the nation, the real nation and it has not responded yet. Just watching and realizing things.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby kit » 12 Jan 2020 22:45

uddu wrote::rotfl: ^^^The effect of propaganda on your mind. Stop surrendering to it. What just happened is India got woken up from a deep slumber of the dangers within and outside.We could see for real the enemies within, the fools within, the violent ones the brainwashed ones etc. What you have not seen is the nation, the real nation and it has not responded yet. Just watching and realizing things.


+1. You cant hide the truth. Its now just out there staring back at you. India has indeed woken up from its Rip Van Winkle sleep, the world has moved on a bit, time to shave off the ugly beard, change dress and get the house in order ( and get rid of those stray dogs ) ., literally.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Tuan » 13 Jan 2020 02:06

NRao wrote:Jan 7, 2020:



It seems to me, after all, FM Jaishankar is fascinated by the rise of China. If I am reading him correctly, he explicitly states that despite the differences between the two rising powers; India, he suggests, should emulate China. In my opinion, first and foremost, there are so many underlying historical and cultural differences between the two countries and therefore India (a nation state) will never be China (a civilization state). A better option for India could thus be emulating the US.

Watch this:


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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Tuan » 13 Jan 2020 03:20

Also watch Martin Jacques' latest on China:


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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby NRao » 13 Jan 2020 04:19

Record number of Foreign Ministers to attend India's premier foreign policy dialogue from January 14

New Delhi: Foreign Ministers from 13 countries, including Russia, Iran and Australia, would attend the Raisina Dialogue 2020, the fifth edition of the annual geo-political and geo-economic summit, which will begin in the Indian Capital on 14 January.

The three-day event, co-hosted by the Ministry of External Affairs, Government of India, and Observer Research Foundation, will also see the participation of many deputy foreign ministers, former Prime Ministers, former Presidents, national security advisors, military chiefs and other high level policy-makers, scholars and officials.

Over 180 delegates from 105 countries are taking part in this edition, themed ‘21@20: Navigating the Alpha Century’. In all, the conference will see 116 speakers.

Besides, hosts’ Foreign Minister S Jaishankar, the other foreign ministers participating in this year’s conference are from Russia, Iran, Australia, Maldives, South Africa, Latvia, Uzbekistan, Estonia, Denmark, Hungary, Rwanda and Tanzania.

Former President of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai and ex-Prime Ministers of Sweden, Republic of Korea, Canada, Denmark, New Zealand and Bhutan are also participating in the conference.

Indian Ministers Smiriti Irani, Hardeep Singh Puri and V Muraleedharan and Members of Parliament Jayant Sinha, Shashi Tharoor, Manish Tewari, Swapan Dasgupta will also speak in different sessions.

More than 2000 participants, including over 600 delegates and speakers, are taking part in the conference.

India’s Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale, Chief of Defence Staff, Gen. Bipin Rawat and Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Karanbir Singh, besides US Deputy NSA Matthew Pottinger, Afghanistan NSA Hamdullah Mohib, Chief of Staff, Joint Staff of the Japan Self-Defence Forces, Gen. Koji Yamazaki, Vice Chief of Australian Defence Force, Vice Adm. David Johnston and Chief of Naval Staff of UK, Adm. Tony Radakin will also speak at the conference.

The valedictory address will be delivered by Vice President of the European Commission and High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, European Union, Josep Borrell.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby banrjeer » 13 Jan 2020 04:43

Philip wrote:CAA protests are not from the ghettos.Lakhs of young students across the country for whatever reason are protesting. I am not arguing the issue,only stating facts.Simply branding them Leftist or Cong. is simplistic, the Left has little influence these days,the youth simply want a better future.

....As I've said many a time,putting our eggs in the Saudi-US basket and abandoning Iran which gives us encirclement of Pak was an asinine act


India is not a super power and its infra is poorer than ISIS controlled Syria even. But it has a pretty large energy market which it can swing around like a club. I think it's also not just buying from the Arabs but also the US and things can change..

Yes the nation as a whole is pathetic at PR. An inconsequential amendment has got the international community riled. Modi should rile them regularly and confuse them more. Look at Trump, the shrill anti-trump press has overdone it so much that theres fatigue creeping in. Even impeachment is losing steam for some genuinely bad actions. If the barking is too loud it loses its punch and people sympathize with the provoker.

India has to rise to the challenges and sell it's brand and project power. otherwise it's not fit enough to survive as a modern nation.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Rishirishi » 13 Jan 2020 05:09

Only one thing matter and that is the size and importance of the economy.

India is losing its best people and business men to other countires. Buniess families are sending their kids to school abroad. Once abroad they take the money with them. Top brains are systematically sucked out of India.

Sucsessful people seems to be wishing to leave India for some very strange reasons.

1) Pollution
2) Traffic
3) lack of recreational space

Spend a billion dollars in each of the metros, planting trees, create bus lanes and make it possible to use public transport and finally invest in open spaces.

That will bring real high value growth to India. When top brains of the world, find it interesting to live and work in India.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Jan 2020 20:39

dup deleted
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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Jan 2020 20:40

Philip wrote:
...
PS: Bengal and Punjab were divided by diabolic Britain,perfidious Albion,may the perpetrators of it rot in hell, and NOT by the local people, who suffered mightily under the British Raj. But does every Indian ( minority citizen) have to prove his loyalty and patriotism ad nauseum and wear it on his sleeve or chest like a yellow star like a Jew?


[Mods, kindly grant me some leeway in responding to Philipji in this thread. Consider it, if you so would, as a suggestion for an Indian narrative in communicating its domestic policies to a hypothetical critic of good faith and goodwill.]

Philip garu, I understand your feelings. And I too, worry whether India’s foreign policy is effective.

But aren’t you perhaps going overboard just a little with your yellow-star of Jews comparison? I have seen it constantly parroted by the agitators in the past few months, but do you, Philip, with your vast experience and insight, really believe that 2020 Hindus are, at any level, anything like 1933 Germans or the white race of that period in general? What Savarkar or Golwalkar wrote, or for that matter what Iqbal wrote, and the European thinkers of that period that influenced them, are one thing, the worldview of actual aam Hindu abduls is another thing. With respect, I suggest you are being a bit glib and overwrought, not to say quite inaccurate.

But the question you pose—what is expected of Indians not belonging to Indic traditions is a reasonable one. My own feeling is that, under special circumstances of historical periods, certain special obligations do get imposed from time to time on specific segments of society. Those obligations are not necessarily fair in the strict, dry, sense of the word, but rather challenge and test what it means for those segments to claim shared belonging to, along with ownership of, the larger society. These obligations can be denied, rejected, or accepted with more or less grace. And of course, ownership can be claimed while ignoring obligations. Each choice will bear its own consequences.

To specific examples. In the 20th century, upper caste Hindus were called upon to accept positive discrimination in favor of SC/STs and later BCs.

In our current de facto vishwa guru the USA, sons of Japanese-Americans wrongfully imprisoned in WW 2 volunteered to disproportionately shed their blood for the oppressor as members of the 442nd battalion. And in the same period, Black college boys of good family and character, viewed as scum by the lowest of white riffraff, fought two battles—first for the right to fight and die for the oppressing country, and next the actual air battle as members of the fabled Red Tails or Tuskegee Airmen.

In 21st century India, we see the Indic people, long subjugated but never completely crushed and decimated, and even prospering in a material sense (as did the Jews in your analogy), mildly and hesitantly (in my estimation) asserting themselves politically, and asking for equal standing with those that identify with the nawabs snd sahibs that continue to lord it over them. And this equality is not possible without some kind of reckoning and redress of the consequences of the centuries of subjugation.

The question is, what are reasonable (if not exactly fair) obligations of the overlord-identifying segments under the circumstances? And how do they feel about these obligations, and what do they intend to do about it?

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 14 Jan 2020 04:09

Yes,perhaps I was flippant about the " yellow star",apologies.But, the demand often seen in the media that minorities ( read Muslims) , should display their patriotism since the nation is subject to Islamic terror primarily from Pakistan is counter-productive.Indian Muslims voted with their feet in 1947. True, the Saudis and Pakis have spent vast sums trying to indoctrinate our Muslims with Wahaabi and jihadi fundamentalism which their own community should be more pro- active in preventing it from taking root. But treating the entire community with suspicion is not on. The state should give greater assistance to the community in preventing external forces from their insidious designs.

Similarly the constant clarion calls against Christian EJ outfits.True some of them are obnoxious and attempted conversions for mercenary gain is the pits.Most Christian nations are not bothered at all about its own citizens embracing Hinduism.We've large numbers of foreigners mainly westerners thronging our popular religious leaders at their centres. Hindu temples are all over the place in the " Christian" west. Prince Charles and Boris J visited our main London temple .There was a news item that the RSS will prevent the erection of a statue of Christ in Karnataka where a Cong. politico is behind the move. Frankly Christ doesn't need a single statue put up,but Christians following his teachings of love instead! However,
how would this read in the Christian west?

I do not understand why the current govt. does not have a healthy interaction with various entities and parties before bringing in controversial legislation resulting in national protests ,and only after the chaos, starts engaging with Muslim imams,etc. There seems to be an indecent haste in pushing through legislation,railroading it through the houses instead of greater transparency at the outset.The ABV style was never contentious. There were no nationwide demos during his era. He was a universally popular PM , perhaps the most popular ever.

Firefighting isn't the answer and intolerance of an opposite viewpoint isn't being democratic. Are we an "inclusive India" or a narrow sectarian state? These are very serious Qs that need to be debated transparently and allowed to be so dispassionately.Right now intolerance is rapidly on the rise. The HM has just said that any " anti- national" citizen will be jailed.But what is the definition of "anti- national" and who determines that an individual is such? The courts,political parties,the police or the mob? Is holding a contrarian viewpoint in a democracy which we proudly proclaim to the world that we are the largest, " anti- national"?
We have to step back from the brink
otherwise lawless forces will plunge the nation into anarchy and disaster.

Coming back to the international conclave in India and the galaxy of visitors attending,a key state Bangladesh isn't. It is a vital neighbour,almost an ally until just recently, our closest neighbour cooperating with us on almost allissues.A neighbour which has resolutely persisted in punishing pro- Paki terrorists and war criminals. One must ask why.I'd mentioned some time ago that we should aim to work out with BD a corridor within its territory further south of the narrow existing vulnerable Siliguri corridor," chicken's neck" that is the lifeline to the N- East giving us a second secure route in times of crisis. Nepal could've been given a port as an EEZ in W.Bengal for easy transhipment of its trade. BDesh did it instead.Our FP has often missed the wood for the trees. Sanitising the neighourhood from our enemies China and Pak should be our top priority.The Chinese are squatting in Lanka in large number just a few dozen miles off our vulnerable southern underbelly. Has the ignored sentiments of the Tamil / Dravidian polity in S.India by indifferent N.Indian babudom encouraged the pro-active majoritarianism being carried out against mostly Hindu Tamilians in Sri Lanka by pro-active Sinhala- Buddhist fundamental outfits and the current regime ? Has this dereliction of duty towards ordinary Lankan Tamils ( not pro- LTTE Eelamists)
cost us the island to the Chinese? Some years ago I asked a senior diplomat with experience of the island why the obvious was being ignored by the MEA.His reply was that " sadly Delhi thinks differently" from the south.The rumours of a plan to decimate Dravidian combined political strength by bifurcating Tamilnadu into 3 states ( divide and rule) to suit the ruling party, is if true going to be another massive controversy with scary consequences unknown.

Sadly we've failed to give as much importance to this vital fundamental to our security,securing the neighbourhood than lofty ambitions with nations afar. Just look at the agenda.The conclave is to discuss the Gulf and " Libya" Libya is already a done deal ! Putin and Erdogan have together ( without the US or west/ EU which created the havoc in Libya,killing Gadhaffi,etc., and have worked out a ceasefire with the two warring parties .
Frankly ,how more important is Libya to us than the Taliban and ISI in Afghanistan,Rohingya crisis in Burma, Paki terrorism in Kashmir and the Chinese occupation of Tibet ,occupation by force of islands in the ICS,militarising them and inroads into Sri Lanka and the IOR?
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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Vips » 14 Jan 2020 04:47

Raisina Dialogue to begin on Tuesday, PM Modi to attend inaugural session.

India's flagship global conference on geopolitics and geo-economics Raisina Dialogue will begin on Tuesday with Prime Minister Narendra Modi attending the inaugural session at which seven former heads of state or government will share their views on important challenges facing the world.

The fifth edition of the prestigious Raisina Dialogue, jointly organised by the Ministry of External Affairs and the Observer Research Foundation, will bring together 700 international participants from over a 100 countries, in one of the largest gathering of its kind.

The three-day conference will see participation of 12 Foreign Ministers, including from Russia, Iran, Australia, Maldives, South Africa, Estonia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Latvia, Uzbekistan and the EU.

Iran foreign minister Javed Zarif's participation assumes significance as it comes following the killing of Iranian Quds Force commander Qassem Soleimani.

The Secretary General of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and the Secretary General of the Commonwealth will also attend, the MEA said in a statement.

The NSA of Afghanistan, the Deputy NSA of the United States and several ministers of state, including from Germany, will also present their ideas at the conference, the MEA said.

The Heads of over 30 think-tanks from around the world will also moderate or present their views across different sessions, it said. The inaugural session on Tuesday will be attended by Prime Minister Modi and seven former heads of state or government, with high international stature and rich experience in governance, will share their views during the inaugural session on important challenges facing the world related to globalisation, 2030 agenda, role of technology in modern world, climate change and counter-terrorism.

The former heads of government who will engage in a discussion are former New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark, former Afghan President Hamid Karzai, former Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt, former Danish rime Minister Anders Rasmussen, former Bhutanese premier Tshering Tobgay and former South Korean Prime Minister Han Seungsoo.

Over the course of two days intensive deliberations will take place over 80 sessions around 5 thematic pillars - the nationalist impulses challenging global institutions and collective action, debate on the global trading architecture, role of technologies in determining political, economic and military power, global development agenda and the state-individual relationship in the age of digital communities and cyberspace.

The synergies and collaborations in the Raisina Dialogue represent India's deliberative ethos as well as its international credibility and convening power, the MEA said

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby NRao » 14 Jan 2020 05:36

Philip wrote:I do not understand why the current govt. does not have a healthy interaction with various entities and parties before bringing in controversial legislation resulting in national protests ,and only after the chaos, starts engaging with Muslim imams,etc. There seems to be an indecent haste in pushing through legislation,railroading it through the houses instead of greater transparency at the outset.The ABV style was never contentious. There were no nationwide demos during his era. He was a universally popular PM , perhaps the most popular ever.


Will make a point or two on this specific topic and move on ....................

This topic, on whom to issue Indian nationality, etc, has been beaten to death. So too the NRC issue. Both topics are pre-Modi era topics.

ONE HUNDRED-SEVENTH REPORT ON THE CITIZENSHIP (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2003

(PRESENTED TO THE RAJYA SABHA ON 12 DECEMBER, 2003)
(LAID ON THE TABLE OF THE LOK SABHA ON 12 DECEMBER, 2003)


States, among other things:

3.2 The major points raised in the Memoranda were as follows:

1. Indian citizenship should be granted to Bangladeshi and Pakistani minority refugees. National identity cards should also be issued to these refugees;
2. Granting of Indian citizenship to migrants who entered India in the wake of 1971 war should be considered.
3. Interests of displaced persons should also be considered.
4. Dual citizenship should be granted on selective basis.
5. Refugees, who entered India after 25 March 1971, should be treated as legal migrants.
6. Strictness should be observed in the matter of grant of citizenship and National Identity Cards.
7. Dual citizenship should not be granted to NRIs.
8. Citizenship should not be available to Bangladeshi minorities;
9. Citizenship should be granted only to Bangladeshi minority refugees and not to refugees belonging to majority community,
10. Tibetan refugees should also be considered for grant of citizenship.
11. Dual citizenship should be restricted to NRIs only;
12. Every citizen should be given a national identity card.
13. Section 6A of the Citizenship Act, 1955 should be deleted to solve the problem of foreign nationals;
14. National identity cards should be provided free of cost.
15. China, Srilanka, Fizi, Kenya, Malaysia, Singapore, Uganda, South Africa, West Indies and Zimbabwe should be included in the Fourth Schedule to the Citizenship Act.
16. Mandatory period of stay in India for re-acquiring Indian citizenship should be of six months only.
17. There should be relaxation in the eligibility criteria for re-acquiring Indian citizenship by distinguished persons.
18. Citizenship certificate should also indicate the religion of the cardholder.


Committee members:

1. Shri Pranab Mukherjee- Chairman

RAJYA SABHA

2. Shri Kapil Sibal <-----------------------------------
3. Shri Hansraj Bhardwaj
4. Shri Motilal Vora
5. Smt. Ambika Soni
6. Shri B.P. Singhal
7. Shri Janeshwar Mishra
8. Dr. V. Maitreyan
9. Shri Lalu Prasad
10. Shri Drupad Borgohain
11. Shri Ram Jethmalani
12. Shri Pramod Mahajan
13. Shri A. Vijayaraghavan
14. Dr. L.M.Singhvi

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby mmasand » 14 Jan 2020 06:26

Harsh Vardhan Shringla, former Ambassador to the US has returned to Delhi, to take over as Foreign Secy on 20th January. Expect to see him at briefings more often than Gokhale.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 14 Jan 2020 16:35

A Q has been raised by Sunanda Datta Ray in a piece in a paper as to why we are desperate for the West's praise. A similar point I've made earlier ad nauseum.

When we take an internal decision like Art. 370 on Kashmir, we do not need to unduly drag around sundry envoys from the West.All nations should get equal treatment at least in public.
The West never invites us to join in its own internal affairs decisions.Did the UK invite us to see happenings in N.Ireland during the " troubles", or after the Good Friday peace agreement?
Did it discuss the invasion of Iraq. Libya and Syrian conflicts too before devastating those countries? Did Trump tell us he was wasting Gen.QS? Has Indiabeen included in the Iran- West/ EU nuclear deal? After all we are an N-weapons state closer to Iranthan either the US or Europe! Have the Chins invited anyone of status to their Uighur " correction" sorry concentration camps? Did the US include us for years in the Afghanistan peace talks?It kept us out ALWAYS.

So why do we seek the white man's blessings so cravenly? That too from third tier nations. Lithuania and Estonia combined aren't the equiv. of a small Indian state.Ray also mentions Mrs.Gandhi's sensitivities of the British press, criticising it over harsh words on the Emergency but enjoying the " Empress of India" headline.
Then there arei
dual standards.Mahathir got short shrift for his comments on the CAA and we' ve stopped buying Malaysian palm oil,but the pointed criticism about " lynching" by the US Asst.Sec., Arthur Wells, at State looking after S. and Central Asia go unpunished by our squirming MEA mandarins.

Our recent efforts at convincing sundry states of our rightful actions in our own country probably amuse them and expose our
insecurity and lack of confidence.I have repeatedly drawn attention to our spinelessness in not returning the favour of stapled visas to Chinese visitndia ,as they do to our citizens living in Kashmir and Ar.Pradesh. A parliamentary delegation from the world's largest democracy needs to be sent to Taiwan to congratulate the pro- independence pres. Tsai Ing wen on her recent landslide victory! Fortune favours the bold,not the butler in diplomacy!

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby KLNMurthy » 15 Jan 2020 01:02

About Taiwan, I have long felt that we need a powerful and independent Indo-Taiwan Friendship Association (currently there is something like Indo-Taipei association I believe, but it seems generally toothless, starting with the name) that promotes business, technology and cultural exchanges and has a loud voice.

When we were ruled by the British and did not have our own voice, we formed powerful & loud private organizations with their own voice. Today, when we are a free people but are ruled by those driven by living vestiges of British-era thinking, we should be looking at similar appropriate solutions.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby KLNMurthy » 15 Jan 2020 01:39

Philip wrote:Yes,perhaps I was flippant about the " yellow star",apologies.But, the demand often seen in the media that minorities ( read Muslims) , should display their patriotism since the nation is subject to Islamic terror primarily from Pakistan is counter-productive.Indian Muslims voted with their feet in 1947. True, the Saudis and Pakis have spent vast sums trying to indoctrinate our Muslims with Wahaabi and jihadi fundamentalism which their own community should be more pro- active in preventing it from taking root. But treating the entire community with suspicion is not on. The state should give greater assistance to the community in preventing external forces from their insidious designs.


Philip, when you say "media" are you referring to Television or Twitter? Because I don't see much in the online Indian English language press that suggests that Muslims are being broadly treated suspiciously or being asked to prove their patriotism. I see some suggestions of it on Twitter, but to my mind it doesn't rise to a broad anti-Muslim sentiment, rather it (to me) seems more like an anti-anti-Hindu sentiment. As to TV, I can't say.

When you say, the "state should give assistance" against insidious designs of external forces, what exactly do you have in mind? Do you mean, for example, blocking Saudi money and giving taxpayer money instead? If so, how do we justify spending taxpayer money on a religion (beyond what is already spent for Haj & other minority entitlements) and how do we justify blocking donations from a country like Saudi with which we have friendly relations?

Similarly the constant clarion calls against Christian EJ outfits.True some of them are obnoxious and attempted conversions for mercenary gain is the pits.Most Christian nations are not bothered at all about its own citizens embracing Hinduism.We've large numbers of foreigners mainly westerners thronging our popular religious leaders at their centres. Hindu temples are all over the place in the " Christian" west. Prince Charles and Boris J visited our main London temple .There was a news item that the RSS will prevent the erection of a statue of Christ in Karnataka where a Cong. politico is behind the move. Frankly Christ doesn't need a single statue put up,but Christians following his teachings of love instead! However,
how would this read in the Christian west?


Well, ancient and medieval history of Christianity in India is what it is, and we may describe it as "checkered" what with the Inquisition in Goa etc. But overall, Christians from the heritage of that period can generally be considered well-settled bedrock Indians. But in the 20th & 21st centuries, there has been a pronounced trend of conversion to Christianity entailing violent breaking of ties with the culture of the motherland, starting with attacks on Hindu gods and murthis, and always featuring a stubborn and contemptuous self-segregation of the converts from the heathens. Coupled with massive financial resources, acquisition of real property and control over means of production, can we really consider this trend a healthy one?

I don't see how this type of conversion in India can be seriously equated with "mellow" and affluent Westerners exploring their spirituality by dabbling in Hinduism with varying degrees of seriousness.
I do not understand why the current govt. does not have a healthy interaction with various entities and parties before bringing in controversial legislation resulting in national protests ,and only after the chaos, starts engaging with Muslim imams,etc. There seems to be an indecent haste in pushing through legislation,railroading it through the houses instead of greater transparency at the outset.The ABV style was never contentious. There were no nationwide demos during his era. He was a universally popular PM , perhaps the most popular ever.


We don't know for a fact that there weren't back-channel discussions with various interested parties prior to the introduction of the bills in question. In any case, it's the government's political prerogative to manage its legislative agenda as it sees fit, is it not? We can second-guess, it's a free country, but we are not the professional politicians here. At least judging by the exaggerated, mendacious and destructive response to what is, after all, a merciful law that brings relief to genuinely oppressed people, I would be inclined to question the value of a priori "taking all stakeholders into confidence" as they say.
Firefighting isn't the answer and intolerance of an opposite viewpoint isn't being democratic. Are we an "inclusive India" or a narrow sectarian state? These are very serious Qs that need to be debated transparently and allowed to be so dispassionately.Right now intolerance is rapidly on the rise. The HM has just said that any " anti- national" citizen will be jailed.But what is the definition of "anti- national" and who determines that an individual is such? The courts,political parties,the police or the mob? Is holding a contrarian viewpoint in a democracy which we proudly proclaim to the world that we are the largest, " anti- national"?
We have to step back from the brink
otherwise lawless forces will plunge the nation into anarchy and disaster.


I agree 100% on the importance of free and open and transparent debate. Are we having such a debate or did we ever, post-1947, have such a debate? Was it ever possible to obtain the information needed to have a proper debate, or have the leeway to address delicate questions with sensitivity and honesty?

I suggest that the answer is no. And further, that what you are calling "intolerance" is a consequence of proper debate being systematically and deliberately inhibited for generations on end. It may be that one man's intolerance is another man's struggle to open his mouth and say something coherent when he has been shut down for a very very long time.

I also agree that the consequences are going to be bad. But this is where we are today, it's a result of past national karma. From my pov, it's the price the country pays for suppressing a free and honest airing of differences (the suppression, IMO was done mostly with good intentions and could be justified in the short term, but there is no free lunch.)
Coming back to the international conclave in India and the galaxy of visitors attending,a key state Bangladesh isn't. It is a vital neighbour,almost an ally until just recently, our closest neighbour cooperating with us on almost allissues.A neighbour which has resolutely persisted in punishing pro- Paki terrorists and war criminals. One must ask why.I'd mentioned some time ago that we should aim to work out with BD a corridor within its territory further south of the narrow existing vulnerable Siliguri corridor," chicken's neck" that is the lifeline to the N- East giving us a second secure route in times of crisis. Nepal could've been given a port as an EEZ in W.Bengal for easy transhipment of its trade. BDesh did it instead.Our FP has often missed the wood for the trees. Sanitising the neighourhood from our enemies China and Pak should be our top priority.The Chinese are squatting in Lanka in large number just a few dozen miles off our vulnerable southern underbelly. Has the ignored sentiments of the Tamil / Dravidian polity in S.India by indifferent N.Indian babudom encouraged the pro-active majoritarianism being carried out against mostly Hindu Tamilians in Sri Lanka by pro-active Sinhala- Buddhist fundamental outfits and the current regime ? Has this dereliction of duty towards ordinary Lankan Tamils ( not pro- LTTE Eelamists)
cost us the island to the Chinese? Some years ago I asked a senior diplomat with experience of the island why the obvious was being ignored by the MEA.His reply was that " sadly Delhi thinks differently" from the south.The rumours of a plan to decimate Dravidian combined political strength by bifurcating Tamilnadu into 3 states ( divide and rule) to suit the ruling party, is if true going to be another massive controversy with scary consequences unknown.

Sadly we've failed to give as much importance to this vital fundamental to our security,securing the neighbourhood than lofty ambitions with nations afar. Just look at the agenda.The conclave is to discuss the Gulf and " Libya" Libya is already a done deal ! Putin and Erdogan have together ( without the US or west/ EU which created the havoc in Libya,killing Gadhaffi,etc., and have worked out a ceasefire with the two warring parties .
Frankly ,how more important is Libya to us than the Taliban and ISI in Afghanistan,Rohingya crisis in Burma, Paki terrorism in Kashmir and the Chinese occupation of Tibet ,occupation by force of islands in the ICS,militarising them and inroads into Sri Lanka and the IOR?


No dispute from me that there have been major and entrenched flaws in thinking and outlook by our rulers that harmed us in forging constructive relationships with neighbors. Again, to me, those flaws owe themselves in part to an unexamined culture in which silence and passivity are rewarded and openness and questioning are punished.

Ages ago, when I read V.S Naipaul's "India: a Wounded Civilization" I was offended and angry. Now, it seems that "wounded but hopefully on the mend" is not a bad metaphor for India today.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby banrjeer » 15 Jan 2020 02:47

Similarly the constant clarion calls against Christian EJ outfits.True some of them are obnoxious and attempted conversions for mercenary gain is the pits.Most Christian nations are not bothered at all about its own citizens embracing Hinduism.We've large numbers of foreigners mainly westerners thronging our popular religious leaders at their centres. Hindu temples are all over the place in the " Christian" west. Prince Charles and Boris J visited our main London temple .There was a news item that the RSS will prevent the erection of a statue of Christ in Karnataka where a Cong. politico is behind the move. Frankly Christ doesn't need a single statue put up,but Christians following his teachings of love instead! However,
how would this read in the Christian west?


this is an ongoing colonial activity and not a free and equal exchange of ideas. The targets are uneducated or distressed people who are vulnerable. The equivalent in North America is genocide of native Americans, conversion, cultural lobotomy. forced labor, loss of land and disappearances

Regret and remorse only occur after natives were completely wiped out. They got to vote as citizens only after blacks and women got to vote.

In contrast we have the west's interaction with Japan. One of them was the only nation to attack the US mainland and the only country ever to be nuked before they became friends.

Yes there are a few Japanese christians and American Shinto's and Buddhists, Thats a better model of cultural exchange.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby pankajs » 15 Jan 2020 21:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KufSx9RW-q0
India Is a Prisoner of Its Past Image: S Jaishankar | Raisina Dialogue 2020


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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 16 Jan 2020 01:04

One of the supposed victims of the end of the Cold War was the NAM movement of which we were its undisputed leader after '71 and the breakup of Yugoslavia by the West. The US was supposedly the only superpower left and Fukuyama came out with his tome, " the end of History", celebrating the triumph of the Western liberal democracies. Where is Fukuyama and his theories today? In the dustbin!

China is a virtual superpower along with a militarily resurgent Russia who is calling the tunes in the ME, finishing off ISIS- the Caliphate Fukuyama forgot about, and now in N.Africa, and Libya too, where Turkey a NATO member with its pretender neo-Ottoman Sultan are waltzing a new relationship, cocking a snoop at the US. Our very own Tharoor and book partner have coined a new phrase " multi- aligned", to describe India's path today.This is the equiv. of being "all things to all men", but does NOT place us in the leadership stakes, especially representing the combined voice of smaller nations ,emerging major powers that constituted NAM.S.Africa and Brazil are two nations that come to mind easily along with Indonesia ,part of ASEAN. We were particularly strong in amity with the NAM fraternity and were looked upon for leadership on global issues with the Afro- Asian states,mostly ex- colonies and smaller nations in Central Asia, S.Am. , E.Europe, the Gulf states ,and had strong ties with our immediate neighbours barring Pak.

A perusal of our relationship with these states today will show how far we have fallen.China has elbowed us out of pole position in Asia. We ignore the NAM movement that still ticks on, growing in relevance again as a new Cold War has begun.If we lust after a UNSC seat then our diplomacy must get into high gear, resurgent and networking among old friends of NAM,etc., carving out a Pax Indica as an alternative to the West's philosophy of " invasion by right",now a vastly weakened and obnoxious one, and the Chin diktat of " Middle Kingdom rules", achieved by enforced borrowing leading to a debt trap and military threats.

The latter philosophy cannot be better exemplified by the statement a day ago by the Chins in Sri Lanka, vowing to " protect" Lankan sovereignty from outsiders,a direct snub to India, where the new pres.,the " Goat", spoke of his love for "old friend" China in
manner and style of a Paki bumchum, all this on India's doorstep. Instead of India reading out the riot act to Sri Lanka on security issues in the IOR and especially in our own backyard, it is China reading out to us what it considers a "Pax Chin" that we must kowtow too on Lankan soil!
The visiting Russian FM Lavrov,in Delhi,has also just poured scorn on the US clubbing the IOR and Pacific as being the " Indo- Pacific", as if it all came under US diktat.

Sadly, we in recent times are being viewed as having abandoned our independent vision of global affairs,where nations looked to us for leadership and inspiration,even from the dawn of Independence where Nehru and India were a respected global voice and entity, inspiring the newly independent Afro-Asian ex-colonies. Today our voice counts for little.We are generally ignored in world affairs,having no seats at the table of key crises ,except when it comes to exploiting our large market and large military for cannon- fodder use as we further engage ourselves in US military groupings like the " Quad", and keep on signing more military agreements with the US binding ourselves further to its military machinations. China is viewed today as the boss of Asia, not India.

FM Jaishankar can say we are a "prisoner of our past image", but it is the image of the recent " past", not that of the 20th. century where our head was held high and our voice reverberated around the world.Our finest hour was in '71, where just a decade on after the humiliation of '62, we severed Pak into two, and stuck our bayonet up the nether ends of Nixon, Kissinger and Mao simultaneously.During RG's time we scotched an attempted coup in the Maldives, intervened militarily in Lanka and coralled the LTTE. An Indian warship was on the cover of Time. It was the era of "Pax Indica "Can we say that today? We could during the days of ABV when we won the Kargil War and further underscored our N-weapon status with P-2. Mr.Modi has done v.well with his numerous visits around the world reminding states and old friends that India is resurgent and strong.But this gambit must be followed up with a strong independent foreign policy that is not afraid to voice its views on contentious world issues.Here the babus of the MEA appear to be mired in mud. Instead of voicing our independent views fearlessly, we usually keep silent and sit on the fence, waiting for a lead from Washington/ the West or wondering how not to upset China,swallowing all its insults and $60B trade deficit that is killing our local industry.Let us hope that the forthcoming conclave marks a new independence in our FP. You know the old saying, " sit on the fence long enough and the spearpoint will end up in your a* se!".

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ramana » 16 Jan 2020 04:48

Vikas wrote:^^ Why should one pay attention to flop retired biased Babus who are responsible for shackling Bharat. It aint that anyone was a genius. We are the ones berating Indian Babudom forever and suddenly what they say becomes oh-so-erudite.



You know who they train an elephant?
They tie a chain to its leg and it struggles to free itself and eventually learns to accept being tied.
Then they put a small rope and it still thinks its a chain.

The long double colonization and killing off the ruling class is the chain that was used to tie India.
Now the thin string of Congress rule was used to self control it.
Then we had willing Gungadins as mahouts that changed a war elephant into a timber crane elephant.

No more.

Vikas NaMo reminded the babus its only a string and no longer a chain.
That's the difference.
if Philip were awake he would see the sea change in West Asia from Indian diplomacy.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 16 Jan 2020 06:08

I am awake! Yes,there is a sea change in the region.The US is in retreat ,after invading and leaving the region in chaos.It allowed for the rise of ISIS ,which it could not contain,trying to play both sides as usual, and had had the ignominy of watching Russia sort out Syria with the help of the hated Iranians.Hence the hit on Gen.QS.An echo of WW2 with the hit on Adm. Yamamoto to shorten the Pacific campaign.
We've played hot and cold with Iran,stopped buying its oil, acting like scaredy cats not wanting to get sanctioned by our massa, America,and have embraced the despotic Saudis,led by a pathological clown prince, who are getting stuck in Yemen losing billions in the process. Even the Turks are bold enough to buy Russian S-400 missiles showing Trump the upturned finger. But where are we in showing the flag in the region,in efforts to calm the situation? We are kept out of talks even on Afghanistan by massa Sam. Peace talks in Libya happen in Moscow with the Turks in attendence.Syria is sending 3000+ troops to Libya for the same. Do we have any voice in Iraq? We use to have a very priviliged relationship with that country when Saddam was ruler. Our only constant has been relations with the UAE and that's because of our large diaspora who keep the Emirates running with other expats.But even here relations have been relatively good for decades.

Indian diplomacy has had a setback with the OIC running to Pak to soothe its pain over Kashmir after the CAA protests erupted across the country. I don't know who Pak's guardian djinn is but it always escapes from the death. It is still in great distress but due to its own stupidity, no thanks to us. We now want to invite Imran for the SCO meet despite all Pak's perfidy against us!

I cannot fathom the giant state that we are behaving like a timid mouse taking little minnows to Kashmir to prove a point given the large international criticism against us over the heavy- handed clampdown ate better but keep out the gang of international busybodies. Said before,were we invited to N.Ireland in similar fashion? Help resolve Brexit? Syria? Iraq? Like the servant beaten by the master's wife ,we've kicked the "dog" Mahathir, for his unwelcome comments on Kashmir and the CAA.Sanctions eco. on Malaysia,perhaps it deserves it, but it's adding to the list of IOR littoral states becoming anti- Indian and joining the Sino- Paki camp.Malaysia not too recently was keen on buying our Tejas instead of the Sino- Pak JF-17, get us to help supply their SU-30s with spares,etc. in exchange for MIG-29s.Here is where clever diplomacy could've explained to Malaysia our internal policies ,reasons for the same and allayed its fears.Good work MEA!

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ramana » 16 Jan 2020 07:47

NAM is recast as omni engagement in Indian interests.
IOW India will engage with whoever that benefits India.
This is best option to further Indian interests.

Come on Philip, Solemani is/was no Yamamoto.
He is more like Himmler
and the IRGC are akin to SS.
They are not regular troops and report to the Ayatollahs.
And even they are breathing a sigh of relief after realizing they are safer now.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 16 Jan 2020 08:38

And what do you call the US playmakers who've ruined the region through illegal invasions,devastating countries,killing lakhs...statesmen? Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for what?
US soldiers at Abu Ghraib were not SS types.US secret rendition camps across the worls aren't Nazi style and Camp Gitmo is an open health resort for re- educating prisoners! C'mon Ramanna, Tell it to the marines!

I can understand our MEA "cherrypicking" pals, but our mandarins should read Dale Carnegie's book again. Every state and every institution has intrinsic value and where we are top dogs,should not leave the field especially to the Chins.The Commonwealth may be a club of tired geriatric ex- colonial farts, but it's a sizeable,useful bloc like the NAM remainers. An indecent burial for SAARC is required.I've suggested "SAFE" instead ( S.Asia Forum Economic),sounds " safer ", pardon the pun.BIMSTEC sounds like a dish, buffalo or beef steak,no-can-do! If we can read the riot act to Malaysia and Mahathir, then when Rajapakse the elder comes-a-calling, the Lankan familia in awe and thrall of the Chins, the same must be read to him in private, as a consideration for an old friend.
Last edited by Philip on 16 Jan 2020 09:07, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Karthik S » 16 Jan 2020 08:45

Philip wrote:Similarly the constant clarion calls against Christian EJ outfits.True some of them are obnoxious and attempted conversions for mercenary gain is the pits.Most Christian nations are not bothered at all about its own citizens embracing Hinduism.We've large numbers of foreigners mainly westerners thronging our popular religious leaders at their centres. Hindu temples are all over the place in the " Christian" west. Prince Charles and Boris J visited our main London temple .There was a news item that the RSS will prevent the erection of a statue of Christ in Karnataka where a Cong. politico is behind the move. Frankly Christ doesn't need a single statue put up,but Christians following his teachings of love instead! However,
how would this read in the Christian west?


:)

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby NRao » 16 Jan 2020 08:48

A serviceable Himmler.

A pawn. Like many others.


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