Indian Foreign Policy

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Mar 2018 04:20

chetak wrote:
Parasu wrote:https://www.tolonews.com/business/iran-invites-pakistan-participate-chabahar-project



This is a direct message to the pakis, no more, no less.

Moreover, the gas pipeline fiasco with the pakis has soured the eyeranians against the pakis rather badly so they will not be too eager to get into bed with the reneging pakis until some retribution/compensation is made to them by the pakis and this is very difficult for the pakis to do because of their nightmarish and ever worsening financial situation.

I would not read too much into it.

Even if the pakis and chinese do come into chabahar, India may still continue to have a direct access to afghanistan as well as the central asian hinterlands

exactly toi is unnecessarily creating sensation to grab eyes & balls. Pakistan doesnt have money to invest, and china if it does will spell the doom for gwadar (which anyways will happen from a commercial point, given balochistan). If there is some bonhomie, we can always assure that Chinese investments will be given "due consideration" after creation of Balochistan

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Vips » 14 Mar 2018 04:45

India Backs Mauritius's Sovereignty Claim Over Chagos Islands at ICJ.

India has submitted a written statement to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in support of Mauritius’s demand for sovereignty over Chagos Archipelago from Britain.

Sources told The Wire that New Delhi submitted its statement on the Chagos question to The Hague-based ICJ on February 28, a day before the deadline.

The ICJ was asked by the UN General Assembly to give its advisory opinion on whether UK’s continuing possession of Chagos was in violation of international law. The General Assembly had agreed through a resolution on June 22, 2017 to refer two questions to the UN’s main judicial organ to give their advisory opinion. India was one of the 94 countries that voted in favour of the resolution.

After receiving the request, ICJ had fixed a deadline of January 30, 2018, for “the United Nations and its Member States” to furnish information.

But about two weeks before the deadline, ICJ extended the last day to March 1. The extension was mainly on the request of the African Union, which had requested permission to also ‘furnish information’ to the world court. Accepting the request, the court then extended the time limit till March 1 and the comments on written statements to May 15.

The extension in time limit was welcome as in mid-January, India was still debating whether New Delhi should take the step to back Mauritius at the ICJ.

According to sources aware of the contents of India’s statement, New Delhi had reiterated its previous position that the process of decolonisation should be completed. India emphasised that the sovereignty of Chagos should revert to Mauritius.

In 1965, three years before giving independence to Mauritius, UK detached the Chagos Archipelago to form a separate British Indian Ocean Territory, expelled the population and then leased the territory to US to establish a military base on the largest island of Diego Garcia. As part of the 1965 ‘Lancaster House’ undertakings, Mauritius had got £3 million in compensation and a commitment that Chagos would be returned once UK decided that there was no defence-related purposes to the islands.

In November 2016, UK announced that US’s lease had been renewed for another 20 years till 2036.

As The Wire had reported earlier in January, Mauritius had made a strong request to India to submit a statement to bolster its position before the ICJ, which could give its advisory opinion as early as mid-2018.

An advisory opinion of ICJ is not legally binding, but carries “great legal weight and moral authority” :roll: .

According to sources, the US had been apprised by India about the background to the decision to submit a written statement. India had explained to the US that the written statement was a traditional foreign policy position and necessary to give assurance to a long-time ally in the Indian Ocean.

There had been a debate within the Indian government over taking the step of presenting a legal argument, especially since New Delhi did not want the US to move out of the Indian Ocean and leave a vacuum for the Chinese to fill in.

This is, of course, a reflection of the current geopolitical reality in the region.But for a long time, India had been a staunch and active opponent of the military base at Diego Garcia.

According to a former US diplomat R. Grant Smith, US naval ships could not visit Indian ports for a long period as they had to fill in a questionnaire which included a query whether the vessel had called or will call on a port not under control of a littoral state.

“It was a complicated bit of wording which really meant, ‘Has this ship been to or is it going to Diego Garcia,’ which was a base to which the Indians objected considerably,” said Smith, who had two postings in India in the 80s and 90s, in an oral history narrative to the Association of Diplomatic Studies and Training.

The MEA’s annual report of 1983-84 dwelled considerably on the expansion of the military base. It stated that the base had been expanded to allow for deployment of ground forces to US, Africa and Asia, with B-52 bombers also to be deployed.

As per the report:
“The existence of foreign bases and the military presence of non-littoral states in the Indian Ocean has been a matter of grave concern for India. Great Power military presence has a naturally deleterious impact on the security environment of the countries of the region as it introduces new tensions and conflicts and accentuates existing ones, thereby threatening peace and stability in our neighbourhood and in the world in general.”

Next year’s annual report also stated that India “continued to work for the removal of all foreign military presence from the Indian Ocean”.

“India maintained its support for the claim of Mauritian sovereignty over the Chagos Archipelago, including Diego Garcia, and called for its early return to Mauritius,” said the ministry’s 1984-85 annual report.

With the weight of history, it was difficult to suddenly take a contrary Indian position on Chagos despite concerns of Chinese presence, South Block finally decided.

In discussions at the official level on India’s written statement, US was categorically told that India was not looking for a change in the security framework in the Indian Ocean. This is also what India had said while voting in favour of the UNGA resolution last year.

It was not an explanation that the US would have been happy to hear, since both London and Washington had approached India to prevail upon Mauritius to withdraw the UNGA resolution.

India is perhaps Mauritius’s closest bilateral partner. Indian President Ram Nath Kovind is currently on a state visit to the Indian Ocean island on invitation to be the chief guest at celebrations to mark 50 years of independence.

The pressure on India had been made both in New York through the permanent missions and through meetings with senior officials. The matter had been raised by both the US National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster and US secretary of state Rex Tillerson with their counterparts in the run-up to the resolution being tabled in the UNGA.

On the other side, Mauritius had wanted India to be a co-sponsor. However, India refused the offer, claiming that remaining on the outside would allow it to have a channel of communication open with the US.

Incidentally, as per diplomatic sources, India had advised Mauritius to renew the offer to the US to lease Diego Garcia as a military base even if sovereignty was returned.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby anupmisra » 14 Mar 2018 05:17

This is serious, if true.

Iran ...backs Kashmir cause

Iran has invited China and Pakistan to participate in the development of the strategic Chabahar port and extended support to the right of self-determination for the people of Jammu and Kashmir.
Foreign minister Javad Zarif...while speaking on Monday at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, a think tank backed by Pakistan’s foreign ministry.
A statement issued by Pakistan’s Foreign Office following a meeting between Zarif and his counterpart Khawaja Asif on Monday said both sides had “reiterated support for the peaceful struggle of the peoples of Palestine and Kashmir for their right to self-determination”.


While this is a report by the paki FO, and it could be cooked up, if this is true then the Indian FO needs to take it up with their counterparts in Iran and confirm that the Iranian FM actually say that. This could damage Indo-Iranian relationships for a long time if confirmed.

On the other hand, if the Iranian FO denies that their FM ever said that about Kashmir, then the pakis have a lot of explaining to do.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... XvlGO.html

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby anupmisra » 14 Mar 2018 05:39

Following up on the paki FO statement, it is now verified that the pakis did release this statement.

Foreign Ministers of Iran and Pakistan held bilateral consultations in Islamabad, 12 March 2018

Pakistan and Iran reiterated support for the peaceful struggle of the peoples of Palestine and Kashmir for their right to self determination. The two countries also emphasized the need for honouring of the JCPOA commitments by all parties.


I hope the Iranian FM did not say it. Lets wait for their denial.

http://www.mofa.gov.pk/pr-details.php?mm=NTk4Ng,,

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 14 Mar 2018 10:27

That's perhaps the only way Mauritius will regain the Chagos islands by leasing it to the Yanquis.The CW is over but ghere's a new conflict brewing with the Dragon claiming squatting rights all over the globe, esp. in our backyard.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 14 Mar 2018 10:34

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I agree ‘historic ties’ have no relevance - in fact we don’t even know what that means. However there is definitely space to see if Iran Shi’a vs Pak Sunni conflict can be created. This is perhaps one of the most important tools and shouldn’t be dismissed without a proper analysis.


eyran has a lot to say about India's treatment of it's shias, just like the saudis lean on India for the sunnis. Both these sects look towards their respective "spiritual heads" abroad for "guidance and sustenance"

In this sectarian melee, the eyranians are just a shade bit more circumspect is all, because they do not have comparable resources to support their less numerous followers in India who have, comparatively, lesser political clout.

Both seek to influence India by manipulation of their "followers" here, by orchestrating processions and demonstrations about some sorry arse issues in some godforsaken corner of the world. There is a lot of "religious tourism" encouraged and sponsored by these ragheads.

With the advent of the sabka saath sabka vikas mantra, the GoI has put some of these malicious forces in their rightful place, i.e. the dustbin.

It will take some time to put these offshore ragheads in their place. FCRA has hit both the desert religions and all their sects by forcing them to come out in the open.

Sadly, hawala channels are used more frequently now by these affected NGOs.

"historic ties" is just a convenient fig leaf, used when there is actually nothing to say.

Actually, what "historic ties"?? Aren't these the very b@$t@&d$, all of whom invaded and plundered us?? and now suddenly we are ancient friends?? The whites, persians or the arabs are all guilty of the same genocidal invasions.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 14 Mar 2018 10:46

anupmisra wrote:Following up on the paki FO statement, it is now verified that the pakis did release this statement.

Foreign Ministers of Iran and Pakistan held bilateral consultations in Islamabad, 12 March 2018

Pakistan and Iran reiterated support for the peaceful struggle of the peoples of Palestine and Kashmir for their right to self determination. The two countries also emphasized the need for honouring of the JCPOA commitments by all parties.


I hope the Iranian FM did not say it. Lets wait for their denial.

http://www.mofa.gov.pk/pr-details.php?mm=NTk4Ng,,


No denials will be forthcoming.

This is, in fact, the de jure as well as the de facto positions of both parties.

Hindustan is the common target. The pakis are very cut up that they are not allowed to make money from the Hindus in India, unlike the eyranians and the saudis who also hold as well as support very similar views but have managed to put their petro dollars to work for them in India.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Mar 2018 19:59

Philip wrote:That's perhaps the only way Mauritius will regain the Chagos islands by leasing it to the Yanquis.The CW is over but ghere's a new conflict brewing with the Dragon claiming squatting rights all over the globe, esp. in our backyard.
If we were bold enough, we would offer to take over from the US. Would love to see the IN venturing out and leave the coast to the Coast Guard. I can dream, na?

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby arun » 19 Mar 2018 10:14

X Posted from the India – Russia : News & Analyses thread

A three week old interview of Sergei Karaganov, described as Economic and Foreign Policy Adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin by Indrani Bagchi.

A defensive reaction by Sergei Karaganov when Indrani Bagchi describes Russia as almost a ”Younger Sibling” of the Peoples Republic of China.

With Russia playing footsie with the PRC and the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it is long past time that India delivers reminding poke to Russia’s eyes say over Ukraine, Crimea, Georgia, Skripal or some such act of dubious Russian behaviour that their dalliance with countries inimical to India will not be cost free:

The evolving Russia-China relationship appears to be of concern to India. How do you see it, and how will it affect India?

India has to understand that by virtue of both history and geography China is our closest neighbour. We have to have good relations with them. Our relationship with India is not dependent on our relationship with China. We have to think differently. We have to build bigger relations with China but this would be balanced positively by others. At this juncture you (India) have a tense relationship with China, but being so preoccupied with China is not very healthy – just like we were preoccupied with the US. We have a closer relationship with China, we are more involved in international affairs, (and) it’s very different from what it used to be 10-15 years ago.

The India-China relationship is fraught with tension. What if Russia is asked to make a choice?

We understand the difficulties and differences in your systems. China is becoming a more complex and sophisticated society. We have to give history a chance, in spite of our ideological anxieties. Act calmly.

If you need help from Russia as an intermediary, we could help. But we will not take sides. We will not jeopardise Russian interests for either China or India. We think that the fact that you are hostile to one another is an aberration. The sooner you solve it, the better. Thirty-forty years ago there was deep distrust between Russia and China, including a territorial dispute. Now, because of the wisdom of our peoples, the Russia-China border is most peaceful.

Some would say Russia is almost a younger sibling to China.

We are quasi allies right now, because the United States has chosen to contain both Russia and China, which is a strategic failure by the US. We also have a lot of common interests. Russia cannot be a junior brother to anybody and has never been so – from the heirs of Genghis Khan to Napoleon and Hitler, we have defeated them all.

The India-Russia relationship is confined to governments, how would you broaden it?

We should have common courses between Indian and Russian universities, open up our economies to each other – our $7 billion trade is an aberration. We should open up people-to-people contacts – there is only goodwill on either side. There are some members of the Russian elite who are fearful of China – not too many, but some. But there is none of that with India. On strategic affairs, for instance, we have serious conversations – but all this only at the top level. It doesn’t go deeper in the two systems.

In 2018, what would you say are top Russian foreign policy priorities?

Our top priority is Russia’s internal development – this is important for both our strategic and foreign policy. We’re good at diplomacy and good at military power and international manoeuvring but we have a relatively weak economic base, which is a longer term problem.

Our most important foreign priority would be keeping peace in the world – very important for Russia, and also because the global situation is worse than at any time in decades.

Second, building a robust relationship with China based on concept of greater Eurasia. Third, rebuilding our relationship with Europe, not on the previous basis which failed but on a new footing. Next in geographical terms would be India – because our relations with India are clear and there are unused opportunities that have been missed in the last 30 years.

How would you characterise the Russia-Pakistan relationship?

Pakistan is an important player, we want to be involved, have a relationship with them. But they are not in the same category as China or India.

Is Russia supporting Taliban in Afghanistan?

We are playing a very complicated game – sometimes we support somebody, sometimes we help somebody else. Taliban is also different. When we saw the US going in with ground troops we were aghast. That was a disaster. Now it’s different – we want it to be confined to Afghanistan’s borders. If needed we will support Taliban, if needed, we will support anti-Taliban forces. But they should not spread the ‘Afghan disease’ or terrorism disease to the neighbouring areas, be that India or central Asia. For the time being we don’t want US troops to leave Afghanistan – their withdrawal would create more problems. We understand that unlike India or China, they don’t have a vested interest, they don’t want to lose face. But for us it’s a huge national security issue.


‘China and Russia are quasi allies … On strategic affairs Russia and India have serious conversations only at top level’

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2018 15:46

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how-gov ... -topscroll

commendable job imo by MEA and VKS to pursue this to the bitter end, get the job properly done, identify all remains and give a sense of closure to the victims families atleast. the lightning rapidity of the collapse of iraqi govt in mosul caught everyone but the corrupt generals by surprise over there, leading to numerous massacres like the camp speicher of units leaderless, abandoned and with no transport to escape.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Supratik » 21 Mar 2018 20:06

It seems Seychelles opposition is blocking the Indian naval base on one of its islands. I suspect one or both of the two global powers to be behind this. Will need extraordinary diplomatic effort.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 22 Mar 2018 07:09

The deal is dead, claims the oppn. leader.I've commented on this in the IN td.MEA has lost the plot in our neighbourhood.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 22 Mar 2018 20:02

I watched this aft the personal account of the lone survivor of the ISIS massacre in Iraq. He alleged that when he cane back to India he was told by the govt. officials who had housed him NOT to tell anyone that the other workers had been massacred and for that he would be given a job!

This is a stunning allegation and shows that within babudom,there are the most despicable of men,who care a damn for the families of the victims,who incidentally heard about the news of the massacre of their loved ones first on TV channels,not from the GOI!

The survivor,however praised Sushma for all her efforts.I was told sometime ago,that the Delhi babus are deliberately supplying the GOI with false data,etc.because of the pressure upon them to deliver the goods,the basic purpose that they're their for,as public servants,not public princes and princesses!

The Hon. FM,SS,should make a swift inquiry into who were responsible for shutting this survivor's mouth,from which ministry or agency,and bring the guilty to book.Similarly,the FM should give the goals of the GOI of results in outr neighbourhood in particular,to get the results or get packing! Only that way will we be able to raise our profile in the intl. community and be taken seriously as an alternative to China.The way things are going,China is running away with not just east Asia but also the IOR and Africa.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 28 Mar 2018 22:06

Philip wrote:The deal is dead, claims the oppn. leader.I've commented on this in the IN td.MEA has lost the plot in our neighbourhood.


The hans are flexing their muscles.

Visible payback for doklam and maldives.

The clout of the Indian origin population should see us through in due course. Plenty of their students studying in our universities here.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Prem » 30 Mar 2018 08:19


arun
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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby arun » 06 Apr 2018 10:19

X posted from the India-Russia: News & Analysis thread.

At the Hague based international chemical weapons watchdog, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), India abstained from voting on a Russian proposal for a new and joint investigation into the poisoning of the Skripals in England with the Soviet-era military-grade nerve agent, Novichok.

Russia lost the vote 6-15, with 17 abstentions. India being one of them. Those that supported Russia were China, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Algeria and Iran.

Notwithstanding the comprehensive defeat, Russia in the style of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has declared victory :wink: with their OPCW ambassador Aleksander Shulgin saying “The votes backing Russia and the abstentions showed that more than half of the council refused to associate themselves with the West’s point of view,” :lol: .

India abstains as Russia seeks vote on new probe into ex-spy's death

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Vips » 06 Apr 2018 20:35

arun wrote:
Notwithstanding the comprehensive defeat, Russia in the style of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has declared victory :wink: with their OPCW ambassador Aleksander Shulgin saying “The votes backing Russia and the abstentions showed that more than half of the council refused to associate themselves with the West’s point of view,” :lol: .

India abstains as Russia seeks vote on new probe into ex-spy's death


This is like Russian saying it is a democratic country because Putin won a free and fair election. :rotfl:

In twisting logic and claiming victory in defeat they are behaving more and more like the Pakis. :eek:

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby rsingh » 06 Apr 2018 21:15

^^^^
And why we decided to abstain? There is no logical explanation for that (at lease to me). Why to irritate an old friend ? What we got? We might be scoring small brownies (Russi-Baki-China ) saga, but we have to be ready to be on the mercy of west in future votes (at UNO etc). What is wisdom in that? Stupidity. Specially when it was clear that Russia will loose the vote.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 06 Apr 2018 22:11

The anomalies in the "evidence" that Russia was responsible for the incident are now making headlines in the UK media, asking ghe Q whether For. Sec. BoJo misled parliament that Russia was guilty when Porton Down the UK's top chem-bio warfare centre, just a few miles away from the Skripal's residence, said that they had no idea where the agent came from!

Our MEA should study the facts of the case v.carefully before typically, as in recent years like cowards sit on the fence.You know the old saying, sit on the fence for too long and the spear will go up your a*se!

The evidence provided by Britain, as in the prelude to the Iraq war was so flawed, that millions died and were affected by the feku intel deliberately conjured up by Tony B. Liar.Hans Blix the then head of the IAEA was categoric in his statements that Saddam had no WMDs nor any such prod. facilities, yet the US and UK conspired to go to war to steal Iraq's oil.The Iraqi insurgency put paid to those fond hopes!

India should not asininely antagonise old loyal friends like Russia in times of need.Russia can in the future do the same to us at a UNSC vote on Kashmir, whatever.Have we become a US wimp? The US has the audacity to threaten sanctions if we buy S- 400s! It's none of their business.Time to tell the US to eff off, but then the MEA is like a dog with three hind legs!

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby panduranghari » 07 Apr 2018 11:57

Russia is not loyal ally. Philip ji you should know by this time. Only loyal ally at the moment is Japan.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Philip » 07 Apr 2018 12:53

Which " loyal ally" is providing us with N-subs N-sub tech assisting us in our SSBN production, BMos missile JV and willing to sell us S- 400s which the US wants stopped?! Japan hasn't given us any worthwhile advanced mil-tech whatsoever.

Also remember that Japan heavily criticises our strat. N- deterrent possession. Russia has supported us and the only Western nation is France, not Japan.Israel too but it is a different case.It has its own interests in selling mil. eqpt. to us.

The US attitude is astonishing.We are not its catamite like Pak.Imagine the uproar if Russia demanded a halt to all mil. high-tech if we bought milware from the US.
Our foreign policy is a masala hotch- potch.
Some of it good, some bad and some downright ugly.
Good in supporting intl. agreements on the environment, UN peacekeeping, and the like.Bad when dealing with our neighbours and ugly when dealing with Pak and China.

With Pak, great bombast , innumerabla "befitting replies" only verbal!not followed up with mil. action.
With China, an acute ugliness, fear psychosis, trembling at the knees.Desperate not to avoid hurting its feelings
and still not punishing it for its stapled visas for our nationals residing in J&K and Ar.Pradesh!

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby panduranghari » 07 Apr 2018 13:52

I do not disagree. But Indian and Japanese interests coincide in almost (?) all spheres. It is not so with Russia. In spite of its bravado, Russian GDP is LESS than half of Indian numbers. Russia has hitched its cart to the Chinese donkey. There is nothing g for India to gain from Russia. Yes they SELL military hardware. But it's unreliable supplier who will constrain us when Chinese tell them to do so. Chinese and Russian interests coincide in many many spheres. Indo-Russian perhaps don't. Indo-Chinese most positively don't.

The failure of 60 years of subservient thinking by bureaucrats can't be laid at Modi's feet.

This was an old post from GDF - possibly by RamaY ji ( pity he is banned) or by JhoneeG (where are you?)
Firstly, definition of 'maya': to project what is not and to conceal what is.

There is a story of Bhasmasuura, saar. He was beguiled to put his own hand(which had the power to burn down anything on which it is placed) on his own head. Bhasmasura gained power from Lord and then turned on Him after getting the boon. He was punished by his own hand.

There is a story of Sunda and Upa-Sunda. Two asura brothers who were very close to each other. They had the boon that they won't die in anyone else's hands(i.e. only they could kill each other). Apsarasa Thilotama was created to create rift between them. The two brothers ended up fighting with each other for her and then killing each other.

There is a story of Jarasandha's chief commanders: Hamsa and Dimbhaka. Hamsa and Dimbhaka were close to each other and also powerful. They were one of the reasons for Jarasandha's power. One of them was misinformed that the other died. Believing the false info, he committed suicide in grief. Then the info of suicide was conveyed to the other, who also committed suicide in grief. This was most probably the ploy of Jagadguru Shri Krushna. Later, similar ploy was used on Drona. He was misinformed that his son had died. So, he committed suicide.

Then there is episode of Vamana beguiling the Bali Chakravarthi into parting with his entire empire.

Raavana's bro Kumbhakarna wanted to ask for great boons after he performed Tapasya for Lord Brahma. But, his mind was played with by Goddess Saraswati. So, he ended up asking for the 'boon' of forever sleep. Later, Raavana had to beg Lord for some respite for his bro from the sleep.

If one carefully analyzes the Raamaayana, then Shri Raama avathaar itself is maya. The almighty, omniscient and omni-present Vishnu disguised as a simple friendly neighbourhood prince(Shri Raama). The Goddess Lakshmi(Prosperity) Herself disguised as a simple housewife(Sita maiya). Poor Raavana was fooled. Would Raavana take on them if he knew that he was going against Lord Vishnu or was kidnapping Goddess Lakshmi?

Even Bhagavatham! Poor Kamsa! He was alright. May not be the best guy around, but certainly not the worst. Then, he was revealed that he would be killed by his own nephew. And suddenly all the worst characteristics of Kamsa came out. He was ready to kill his sister. He imprisoned his newly wed sister and bro-in-law. He ended up killing his nephews. He imprisoned his father. In short, turned into a complete rascal. Then, he was killed anyway. If on the other hand, he had not heard of that prophecy, maybe he would have lived longer.

In MB, the biggest trick of Devas was: Karna. If Duryodhana had known that Karna was the bro of Paandavas, would he have gone to the war? And what does Karna do when the war starts? He sits out of the first 10 days of war! All along Duryodhana thought Karna was going to lead him to victory. But cometh the hour and Karna sits out citing some petty reasons. When, he does start fighting, he does not kill the Paandavas. It seems he won't kill Paandava except Arjuna. Of course, he can't kill Arjuna because Krushna Himself is protecting him. He kills Ghatothkacha whom Krushna wanted dead anyway. Before the war Lord Krushna offers Karna kingship. Karna refuses it. Why? Couldn't Karna accept the Kingship and gift it to Duryodhana(if he was such a good friend of Karna)?

Hindu literature is filled with such things. Naivety or simple-mindedness is never glorified. Nor real politics discarded. It is only the modern day(Gandhian?) interpretations which seem to be shy of such readings.

Saama, Dhaana, Danda and Bhedha. According to sages, Upeksha and Maya are the two other tactics mentioned in Agni Purana. These are the basics of tactics. Moles, spies, false info(propaganda disguised as news or advises...etc), honey traps, deceptions, luring the opponents into combat by projecting weakness(i.e. feigning a retreat and then attack), using emotional atyachaar to get personal commitments, giving the opponent long rope so that he can hang himself(or atleast taint himself so much that when he is hanged no one is bothered), forging alliances with powerful friends(especially with enemies of enemies and friends of friends), breaking friendships by sowing differences(i.e. creating a situation where they compete for the same resource) or by sowing doubts that the other person is betraying them, break the alliances of opponent by offering respect, riches, power and privileges...etc.

Talk politely but wield a big stick! Thats the strategy. One can see this method adopted by Shri Rama and Yuddhishtira. A truly clever person does not project the persona of cleverness.

Both Shri Raama and Yuddhishtira carry the persona of polite civility. Their opponents take them for cowards or sissies. They underestimate them and are surprised when Rama or Yuddhishtira react with force or stratagem. The outrage of opponents is due to cognitive dissonance.

Both Raama and Yuddhishtira also realise the importance of credibility. They take great care never to promise what they cannot accomplish and never to leave unaccomplished what they have promised. They go to great pains to build a brand. Praan jaaye par vachan na jaaye... Trust is very important. Once the credibility is lost, the leadership is in doldrums. So, they never compromise on credibility. Perhaps, on some rare and extra-ordinary occasion, they may take a calculated gambit(like Raama's killing of Vaali or Yuddhishtira's killing of Drona), but otherwise they value their credibility. It is a battle of perceptions. Power and leadership are based on perception. You lose the battle of perception, they you lose power and leadership. You are powerful only as long as people believe you are powerful. You are a leader, only as long as people follow you. Raama and Yuddhishtira perfected this to the extent that even their opponents believed in them. Of course, to live like that means the leadership has to also have to be willing to set an example. So, Raama had to live apart from His beloved wife Sita merely due to allegations. He could have easily ignored the public perceptions and continued. But, He didn't. He wanted to set the example. Of course, He also had long term plans to redeem the situation of Sita maiya in due course. To be able to give such leadership, one has to be able to overcome lots of mental problems. Kaama, krodha, lobha, moha, madha, mathsarya...etc. Otherwise, power corrupts. Only someone who has won himself can wield power properly. Otherwise, he'll end up harming himself and others. Generally, people first try to win the enemies. Then, they concentrate on their friends. And they never concentrate on their own self. But, a good leader first perfect himself. Then, he cleans up his house. Then, he goes after the rest.

Today, the problem is that so many people want power. But, they hardly know what to do with it. They just lust for power because of some ego boost or minor perks(like women). Most seem to want power for the sake of ego boost. And when they get power, they occupy themselves in all sorts of shady businesses. They forget that ultimately power is for the sake of welfare for people. If one cannot accomplish welfare of people, then all the power in the world is useless.


Perhaps a useless perspective or perhaps there is much to learn.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby kit » 07 Apr 2018 14:14

Philip wrote:The deal is dead, claims the oppn. leader.I've commented on this in the IN td.MEA has lost the plot in our neighbourhood.


Wonder if the MEA boss needs a new direction

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby kit » 07 Apr 2018 14:19

arun wrote:X posted from the India-Russia: News & Analysis thread.

At the Hague based international chemical weapons watchdog, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), India abstained from voting on a Russian proposal for a new and joint investigation into the poisoning of the Skripals in England with the Soviet-era military-grade nerve agent, Novichok.

Russia lost the vote 6-15, with 17 abstentions. India being one of them. Those that supported Russia were China, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Algeria and Iran.

Notwithstanding the comprehensive defeat, Russia in the style of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has declared victory :wink: with their OPCW ambassador Aleksander Shulgin saying “The votes backing Russia and the abstentions showed that more than half of the council refused to associate themselves with the West’s point of view,” :lol: .

India abstains as Russia seeks vote on new probe into ex-spy's death


Abstention is support in a way . Support but not openly =abstention

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby rsingh » 07 Apr 2018 18:35

Why it matters that Russia has half the GDP then Russia? US has more then 14 trillions and what it gives? Russia has solid and cheap defence systems . They have proved to be reliable when needed. Russia has UN veto and biggest reserve of natural resources. They like our culture and respect Indians (Not like where is this fukin India as Yankee like to say). Your Japan was most critical of India during Parmanu Visphote. Thanks to western follies in Gulf, we almost bankrupt ourself by buying overpriced crude. And then there is this habit of west to impose sanction on smallest pretext. Our Easter states can go anytime East-Timur way any day ( Thanks to Western NGOs). I think MEA is wrong.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby rsingh » 07 Apr 2018 23:25

Watching Oli and Modi Ji press conference. Oli sounded as he is doing great favours to poor country India. He sounds patronising. Modi is was worried about something.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Austin » 07 Apr 2018 23:40

In spite of its bravado, Russian GDP is LESS than half of Indian numbers.


If you go by nominal GDP then yes since USD and Rouble was recaliberated in 2014 but nominal GDP didnt under go much change nor did Russian GDP in rouble did , per capita income of Russia is significantly higher so it depends on how you read those numbers.

Russia has hitched its cart to the Chinese donkey.


So did India check the India China trade if i am not wrong we have the largest trade with China , China moves the world after 2008 thats not my take but what IMF says , Check EU China trade figures or US China trade figures.

If Russia is moving towards china its because it is forced to do because Western powers wants to maintain their hegemony and want co-operation from Russia or for that matter China or india on their own terms else just sanction those countries , China and Russia are the only country in world with independent foreign policy the rest just toe the Western line.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Vips » 08 Apr 2018 09:14

Austin wrote:China and Russia are the only country in world with independent foreign policy the rest just toe the Western line.


Correct that, China and France are the only countries with independent foreign policies. I doubt Putin will dare to even squeak without approval now from China.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 10:11

rsingh wrote:Why it matters that Russia has half the GDP then Russia? US has more then 14 trillions and what it gives? Russia has solid and cheap defence systems . They have proved to be reliable when needed. Russia has UN veto and biggest reserve of natural resources. They like our culture and respect Indians (Not like where is this fukin India as Yankee like to say). Your Japan was most critical of India during Parmanu Visphote. Thanks to western follies in Gulf, we almost bankrupt ourself by buying overpriced crude. And then there is this habit of west to impose sanction on smallest pretext. Our Easter states can go anytime East-Timur way any day ( Thanks to Western NGOs). I think MEA is wrong.


US has more then 14 trillions and what it gives?


Why should the US give anything to anybody?? They have always been a transactional society with their primary national motto being "what's in it for me". This is also how their society is conditioned to think.

They have cheated, threatened, undermined, overthrown, killed and bombed opponents and lied about the weapons of mass destruction to enhance and cement their standing and supremacy as the worlds greatest superpower.

They have routinely used mass murder to further their aims, allied with cruel dictators and used any means, fair or foul to stay at the top of the heap, to manitain their undisputed hegemonistic power and to safeguard their sole and monopolistic interests and yet you ask simplistically "and what it gives?"

They have leveraged every single thing from the "lend lease" program to the implementation of the marshall plan. They have always had an unwavering eye on their supreme national interest. They have also well and truly f(uked every single ally that they have ever had or will have in the future. We are one of their allies today. Grease up and get ready to bend over.

What's wrong with us?? Why do we always look for handouts, and for what?? We have the wherewithal to chart an independent foreign policy and we do a lot of the times. Sometimes, our interest coincides with that of the US or european powers. Nothing wrong in it. We need support to keep the hans at bay. We have not heard the last of the CPEC, not by a long shot.

japan has always been critical of us. It completely disregards the paki "small crimes", like nuclear and missile profliferation and illegal nuclear, missile commerce with rougue countries like North korea, iran etc. NK has turned out to be a very major bugbear for the japs and their national security scenario and in spite of all this, the japs have always given the pakis a clean chit. India does none of this but the japs dare to critize us and our national programs despite the fact that we seek to protect ourselves from a common enemy like china. It has always rewarded the pakis with financial aid and international support.

Yet, we run behind the japs like rabid dogs. India revels in it's own public humiliation and it's ever subservient international stance is an outcome of how we adapted to the humiliations piled on us by a third grade power like the british and cheated by them on multiple ocassions. We have never managed to get out of that colonial rut. The IAS and the MEA which are direct offshoots of the colonial origin edifices that were established, trained and suborned to serve british interests and as a result of this trained monkey like conditioned behavior, they were rewarded by being allowed to feed off scraps from the high table. Tasty tidbits like IMF postings, UN postings, preferred allotment of prime plots of land in posh localities in many Indian cities, cushy post retirement sinecures, easy and preferred visas, assured admissions to ivy league schools and colleges in the UK as well as the US, jobs in high profile multinational companies are some of the proverbial scraps off the high table that these politically conditioned baboo(n)s vie for today.

Russia had its run in the Indian political ecosystem, (as are the chinese now), with the KGB sponsored and controlled commie parties. They are still the ideological bedrock of the multitude of rabid left leaning political entities including those in JNU, AMU, jamia and jadavpur. The Indian senior commies have access to free medical facilities in commie paradises like cuba. Does anyone need more proof of russian involvement in the Indian political ecosystem?? Don't the naxals get arms from many commie connections ultimately traceable back to either the roundabout ruski or han sources??

There is no free lunch, every one either pays or collects their pound of flesh. The lunch in India, however, comes subsidized by the poor Indian people.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Austin » 08 Apr 2018 13:27

Vips wrote:
Austin wrote:China and Russia are the only country in world with independent foreign policy the rest just toe the Western line.


Correct that, China and France are the only countries with independent foreign policies. I doubt Putin will dare to even squeak without approval now from China.


Yeah right , France will be a obedient lappy of US....The day of independent French policy has ended with Jacques Chirac

Did you read Nirmala Sitharaman speech in Moscow conference 2 days back , just go through it you will see Indian POV on Russia ...enuf said

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 14:14

panduranghari wrote:Russia is not loyal ally. Philip ji you should know by this time. Only loyal ally at the moment is Japan.


japan has always been critical of us. It completely disregards the paki "small crimes", like nuclear and missile proliferation and illegal nuclear, missile commerce with rogue countries like North korea, iran etc. NK has turned out to be a very major bugbear for the japs and their national security scenario and in spite of all this, the japs have always given the pakis a clean chit. India does none of this but the japs dare to criticize us and our national programs despite the fact that we seek to protect ourselves from a common enemy like china

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby panduranghari » 08 Apr 2018 14:40

Chetak ji,

Japan WAS critical of us, I think ( perhaps naively and maybe wrongly), they ARE NOT critical of us now.

Rudradev Saar feels it's better to increase Hindu population of US, which is certainly useful. But perhaps increasing Hindu population of Japan may give exponential returns considering how US has decreased its security guarantees to Eastern Asian allies.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Karthik S » 08 Apr 2018 14:51

chetak wrote:
panduranghari wrote:Russia is not loyal ally. Philip ji you should know by this time. Only loyal ally at the moment is Japan.


japan has always been critical of us. It completely disregards the paki "small crimes", like nuclear and missile proliferation and illegal nuclear, missile commerce with rogue countries like North korea, iran etc. NK has turned out to be a very major bugbear for the japs and their national security scenario and in spite of all this, the japs have always given the pakis a clean chit. India does none of this but the japs dare to criticize us and our national programs despite the fact that we seek to protect ourselves from a common enemy like china


Chetak ji, IMO, it has to do with pacifist govt. that rule Japan from end of WW 2 till Abe came.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 08 Apr 2018 15:40

Karthik S wrote:
chetak wrote:
japan has always been critical of us. It completely disregards the paki "small crimes", like nuclear and missile proliferation and illegal nuclear, missile commerce with rogue countries like North korea, iran etc. NK has turned out to be a very major bugbear for the japs and their national security scenario and in spite of all this, the japs have always given the pakis a clean chit. India does none of this but the japs dare to criticize us and our national programs despite the fact that we seek to protect ourselves from a common enemy like china


Chetak ji, IMO, it has to do with pacifist govt. that rule Japan from end of WW 2 till Abe came.


Sir, in the affairs of nations there are no friends. Only temporary bedfellows. Whether it has been because of its pacifist agenda, Japan was not very supportive, today because of security concerns they are, tomorrow they may not be. We should take what we get and ride the wave. Just don't depend on them to back you if their national interest is not in alignment.

In the same breath, the lack of support from Rus-Fed should not cause us angst. It was expected. If we ask the critical question, 'What if we continued to depend on Rus-Fed and not opened up engagement with teh US, would situation would have changed? Would we still get what what we needed?'

Let's run a checklist:
  1. NSG Waiver: Unlikely, Rus does not have the diplomatic heft, neither would it be able to break the cartel. Remember cryogenic engine freeze.
  2. Freeze of Rus-Chin trade? : Unlikely. Just as we will not endanger our relations with Rus for a Ukraine or Georgia.
  3. Support on Hafiz, diplomatic isolation of Baki's: Maybe, but how much heft does Rus carry
  4. S400/ Arihant/ others: Likely we would have some more advantages (not arguing on quality that's a different topic). But then again even in the late 90's and early 2000's, Rus continued to support the Chinese Shenyang J-11 despite all the controversies. Maybe there was a secret agreement, maybe not- in which case Rus decided on swallowing the bitter pill in view of teh continued importance of China.

We could go on and on, but teh crux is that each nation will decide on its path keeping in mind its national interest of the moment. Why can't we accept that? Why these repeated hand-wringing and rudalipan that we see oft on BRF about our вечный друг- el Rodina.

P.S. Sorry for going OT, but I have had enough of this repeated Russia is our friend, Japan is our friend, etc.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 16:15

Karthik S wrote:
chetak wrote:
japan has always been critical of us. It completely disregards the paki "small crimes", like nuclear and missile proliferation and illegal nuclear, missile commerce with rogue countries like North korea, iran etc. NK has turned out to be a very major bugbear for the japs and their national security scenario and in spite of all this, the japs have always given the pakis a clean chit. India does none of this but the japs dare to criticize us and our national programs despite the fact that we seek to protect ourselves from a common enemy like china


Chetak ji, IMO, it has to do with pacifist govt. that rule Japan from end of WW 2 till Abe came.


Karthik S ji,

the japs are only a few screwdriver turns from weaponizing their own long range missiles as well as warheads both conventional as well as ..............

They cannot take a risk with a rogue neighbor like NK and a very hostile and hugely economically successful and militarily hegemonic china still bitterly nursing grievances against them from many decades ago.

The japs are a very cruel people and their aggressive traits simply cannot be bred out by an ersatz pacifist policy which they neither believe nor do they in reality subscribe to. They have cleverly turned their natural aggression into frenzied industrial production for market expansion and obsessively used product quality to focus their natural talent and craving for domination.

They will surely rise again and very soon too and this time mere market domination will neither stop nor satisfy their inherent needs. As an island nation, they are an inherently insecure people and subconsciously seek the safety of the vast mainland.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Karthik S » 08 Apr 2018 16:28

chetak wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Chetak ji, IMO, it has to do with pacifist govt. that rule Japan from end of WW 2 till Abe came.


Karthik S ji,

the japs are only a few screwdriver turns from weaponizing their own long range missiles as well as warheads both conventional as well as ..............

They cannot take a risk with a rogue neighbor like NK and a very hostile and hugely economically successful and militarily hegemonic china still bitterly nursing grievances against them from many decades ago.

The japs are a very cruel people and their aggressive traits simply cannot be bred out by an ersatz pacifist policy which they neither believe nor do they in reality subscribe to. They have cleverly turned their natural aggression into frenzied industrial production for market expansion and obsessively used product quality to focus their natural talent and craving for domination.

They will surely rise again and very soon too and this time mere market domination will neither stop nor satisfy their inherent needs. As an island nation, they are an inherently insecure people and subconsciously seek the safety of the vast mainland.



Well, haven't met anyone personally so can't about Japanese personality traits. But have spoken to people who've been to Japan for few years. From what I heard, Japanese are politest and most well mannered people.
Anyway, my point was about Japanese past dealings with India. Even at home, Abe faces huge opposition against his strong nationalist stance. No wonder they'll show the same to other countries.
Japan and we share old cultural ties, I recall seeing Doval and Maj Gen GD Bakshi discussing the same, on how to use this soft power to build people to people relationship such as developing Buddhist pilgrimage in Bihar. Like people, countries too are selfish, but I believe the Japanese assistance from Delhi metro to HSR to Industrial corridors, doesn't come with any string attached or them having influencing any aspect.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 16:41

panduranghari wrote:Chetak ji,

Japan WAS critical of us, I think ( perhaps naively and maybe wrongly), they ARE NOT critical of us now.

Rudradev Saar feels it's better to increase Hindu population of US, which is certainly useful. But perhaps increasing Hindu population of Japan may give exponential returns considering how US has decreased its security guarantees to Eastern Asian allies.


Japan is jealous of India acquiring nuclear weapons and delivery systems against all odds international sanctions and technology apartheid that was wantonly unleashed against us when we merely sought to protect ourselves at great cost and sacrifice. They see India as a dirty third world country, all unhygienic, chaotic and corrupt while they pride themselves on a neat, clean, ordered and organised society.

BTW, they did attack India in WWII and IIRC, they came upto kohima before being repulsed by Indian and brit troops. They had every intention of invading India itself. Had they succeeded, we would be bowing, scraping and speaking japanese today, besides smiling toothily at everyone.

India, unlike the japs has never been a hegemonic power. Whatever we have done, we have done mostly on our own and when the britshits left, our economic plight was no less than that of japan after the war. We were abandoned and alone with a delusional leadership and grandiose, impractical plans.

The nuke umbrella that the US provided to japan saved them a lot of money which they then ploughed back into their own industrialization, infrastructure, healthcare, education and other needs of their society. This was almost another version of the colonial benefits that the britshits forcibly took from India and used that to industrialize their own little island and export back to a captive market like India.

In spite of being defeated in WWII, and having two atom bombs dropped on them, isn't that exactly what the clever japs did so silently and quietly to the amerikis without ever invoking the term colonialism?? (or reverse colonialism, if you prefer)

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 17:11

Karthik S wrote:
chetak wrote:
Karthik S ji,

the japs are only a few screwdriver turns from weaponizing their own long range missiles as well as warheads both conventional as well as ..............

They cannot take a risk with a rogue neighbor like NK and a very hostile and hugely economically successful and militarily hegemonic china still bitterly nursing grievances against them from many decades ago.

The japs are a very cruel people and their aggressive traits simply cannot be bred out by an ersatz pacifist policy which they neither believe nor do they in reality subscribe to. They have cleverly turned their natural aggression into frenzied industrial production for market expansion and obsessively used product quality to focus their natural talent and craving for domination.

They will surely rise again and very soon too and this time mere market domination will neither stop nor satisfy their inherent needs. As an island nation, they are an inherently insecure people and subconsciously seek the safety of the vast mainland.



Well, haven't met anyone personally so can't about Japanese personality traits. But have spoken to people who've been to Japan for few years. From what I heard, Japanese are politest and most well mannered people.
Anyway, my point was about Japanese past dealings with India. Even at home, Abe faces huge opposition against his strong nationalist stance. No wonder they'll show the same to other countries.
Japan and we share old cultural ties, I recall seeing Doval and Maj Gen GD Bakshi discussing the same, on how to use this soft power to build people to people relationship such as developing Buddhist pilgrimage in Bihar. Like people, countries too are selfish, but I believe the Japanese assistance from Delhi metro to HSR to Industrial corridors, doesn't come with any string attached or them having influencing any aspect.


They have not much use for their money but at the same time will not do what the hans are doing with a CPEC like investment strategy.

India has a reputation for timely repayment, using the money productively and being grateful for assistance. All traits that a cautious lender looks to see in a "borrower".

Notice that they did not lend as much to the pakis or the beedis. ROI still drives them and ROI is not always tangible and often goodwill can work wonders in future transactions. South china seas, IN, net security provider, freedom of navigation, SLOC, gulf oil, vast Indian markets, preferential access etc etc are all in this complex mix.

The loans for infrastructure projects in India generates a lot of goodwill for them in India. We are a politically stable country and hence their investments are well protected as well as being safe. India also has a vast potential for other investments. Why piss us off??

Of course, they are not going to be rude to us or needlessly aggressive. At the same time. read up on what they did in China when they brutally occupied parts of it. These are not signs of a pacifist society running on the principles of ahimsa. What they did as a country only a few generations ago should not be discounted nor their inherent savagery or brutalities be forgotten, overlooked, glossed over or negated.

Its nice these days to talk of ancient ties and mutual respect and the buddha and nalanda, whatever. Talk nice but do not get carried away by such maudlin sentiments. Its good only for tv studios.

Its also best not to forget that the japs, as practicing buddhists, terrorized countries that they occupied. This is not in any teachings of the Buddha that I have heard of.

BTW, whenever ANYONE loans you money, there are always strings attached. Sometimes one naively chooses not to see them but rest assured that they are ALWAYS there, family, friends, japan, notwithstanding.
Last edited by chetak on 08 Apr 2018 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby Karthik S » 08 Apr 2018 17:23

chetak wrote:
Karthik S wrote:

Well, haven't met anyone personally so can't about Japanese personality traits. But have spoken to people who've been to Japan for few years. From what I heard, Japanese are politest and most well mannered people.
Anyway, my point was about Japanese past dealings with India. Even at home, Abe faces huge opposition against his strong nationalist stance. No wonder they'll show the same to other countries.
Japan and we share old cultural ties, I recall seeing Doval and Maj Gen GD Bakshi discussing the same, on how to use this soft power to build people to people relationship such as developing Buddhist pilgrimage in Bihar. Like people, countries too are selfish, but I believe the Japanese assistance from Delhi metro to HSR to Industrial corridors, doesn't come with any string attached or them having influencing any aspect.


They have not much use for their money but at the same time will not do what the hans are doing with a CPEC like investment strategy.

India has a reputation for timely repayment, using the money productively and being grateful for assistance. All traits that a cautious lender looks to see in a "borrower".

Notice that they did not lend as much to the pakis or the beedis. ROI still drives them and ROI is not always tangible and often goodwill can work wonders in future transactions.

The loans for infrastructure projects in India generates a lot of goodwill for them in India. We are a politically stable country and hence their investments are well protected as well as being safe. India also has a vast potential for other investments. Why piss us off??

Of course, they are not going to be rude to us or needlessly aggressive. At the same time. read up on what they did in China when they brutally occupied parts of it. These are not signs of a pacifist society running on the principles of ahimsa. What they did as a country only a few generations ago should not be discounted nor their inherent savagery or brutalities be forgotten, overlooked, glossed over or negated.

Its nice these days to talk of ancient ties and mutual respect and the buddha and nalanda, whatever. Talk nice but do not get carried away by such maudlin sentiments. Its good only for tv studios.

Its also best not to forget that the japs, as practicing buddhists, terrorized countries that they occupied. This is not in any teachings of the Buddha that I have heard of.



Chetak ji, I am not denying that. But we are not talking about which country has a clean past. We are talking about which relationships are most beneficial to us. Again, I am not even saying that Japan if they 'turn the screwdriver' will share high tech military equipment to us either. Am just saying which country gives us the most with least strings attached, both business and non-business.
We had Soviet support during cold war, but we had to pay price in terms of commies gaining foothold in Indian politics, from interfering in our elections to modelling our history books, to encouraging communism, probably costing our economic rise through Hindu rate of growth. Something that is even affecting us today. Same with Anglo Saxon and EU world, with them influencing through their ideologies in their own sophisticated ways.
If you consider all this, I'd take Japan anyway.

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Re: Indian Foreign Policy

Postby chetak » 08 Apr 2018 17:33

Karthik S wrote:
chetak wrote:
They have not much use for their money but at the same time will not do what the hans are doing with a CPEC like investment strategy.

India has a reputation for timely repayment, using the money productively and being grateful for assistance. All traits that a cautious lender looks to see in a "borrower".

Notice that they did not lend as much to the pakis or the beedis. ROI still drives them and ROI is not always tangible and often goodwill can work wonders in future transactions.

The loans for infrastructure projects in India generates a lot of goodwill for them in India. We are a politically stable country and hence their investments are well protected as well as being safe. India also has a vast potential for other investments. Why piss us off??

Of course, they are not going to be rude to us or needlessly aggressive. At the same time. read up on what they did in China when they brutally occupied parts of it. These are not signs of a pacifist society running on the principles of ahimsa. What they did as a country only a few generations ago should not be discounted nor their inherent savagery or brutalities be forgotten, overlooked, glossed over or negated.

Its nice these days to talk of ancient ties and mutual respect and the buddha and nalanda, whatever. Talk nice but do not get carried away by such maudlin sentiments. Its good only for tv studios.

Its also best not to forget that the japs, as practicing buddhists, terrorized countries that they occupied. This is not in any teachings of the Buddha that I have heard of.



Chetak ji, I am not denying that. But we are not talking about which country has a clean past. We are talking about which relationships are most beneficial to us. Again, I am not even saying that Japan if they 'turn the screwdriver' will share high tech military equipment to us either. Am just saying which country gives us the most with least strings attached, both business and non-business.
We had Soviet support during cold war, but we had to pay price in terms of commies gaining foothold in Indian politics, from interfering in our elections to modelling our history books, to encouraging communism, probably costing our economic rise through Hindu rate of growth. Something is even affecting us today. Same with Anglo Saxon and EU world, with them influencing through their ideologies in their own sophisticated ways.
If you consider all this, I'd take Japan anyway.


Karthik S ji,

All I am saying is be cautious and proceed with care. India comes first, today, tomorrow and for ever.

Yes the soviets did help and we paid the price, Is it asking too much if we now want to learn from the past and not pay too steep a price when the japs come calling to collect on their IOUs??

As per you, they will come politely, bow many times, address you with honor and then over some sake and sushi, they will respectfully present you with the IOU, no??

My point is very simple, there is an IOU and that IOU will be presented in due course.

With our own supreme national interest in mind, we may or not be able to repay it.


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