Afghanistan News & Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Mukesh.Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 1015
Joined: 06 Dec 2009 14:09

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 21 Jan 2010 12:08

One last one b4 I go below.

Vasu may have expressed something exactly, something that I was trying to allude in an extremely roundabout manner. Couldn't it be that the news in TOI is being used as a public opinion softener as a prelude to getting India to commit to a military force in Afghanistan once the Khans leave. Notice how the news appeared coincidentally with Gate's visit and his comments raising the specter of Al Qaeeda in Afghanistan being a destabilizing influence for S.Asia

@ Rudra- Boss, 1543=1100 odd was a bad one. Point taken

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 671
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby milindc » 21 Jan 2010 12:18

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Dear Milind,

Maybe you'd be more familiar with how these multilateral funded surveys are carried out, but given what I have seen, it's always worthwhile not to get carried away. Looking into the details always helps.

Now, if you had actually made the effort to go into the original report from which this was drawn, you will see:
1) The data is open to interpretation, For example the numbers for India and Pakistan are not matched like to like.
2) There is no information of how the 1100 odd samples were drawn.

All this tells me just one thing, "Not to take things at face value, but read the actual report rather than just rely on any newspapers interpretation."

If you still hold that not taking DDM's reports at face value but searching for details is finding shit, I would gladly bear that epithet.

Dear Mukesh Kumar,
What I definitely saw that there was positive poll from Afghan population about India's participation in Afghan development, and you immediately jump after seeing that newspaper article and cast aspersions on representativeness of the poll.
And after you actually read the original report, you come back say '1100 odd' and that the data is open to interpretation as if the gist of what the article is trying to state is incorrect.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3444
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 21 Jan 2010 12:20

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Dear Rudra,

While the news looks good at face value, why not probe. If the data's opinion expressed in TOI is valid great, but always helps to check. The Like to Like comparison debates the interpretation by newspapers in Indian and Paki popularty figures- 71% vs 2%
See below:
India 2010 2009
% %
Very favourable 29 27
Somewhat favourable 42 47
Somewhat unfavourable 22 13
Very unfavourable 14 8
No opinion 7 5


Pakistan 2010 2009 2007
% % %
Very favourable 2 1 2
Somewhat favourable 13 7 17
Somewhat unfavourable 32 26 16
Very unfavourable 49 65 63
No opinion 3 1 1


Now as to validity of data, often in my handling research agencies, and in seeing NGO's work in different countries, I have come across cases of data being extrapolated by arm chair researchers. More so in troubled regions and on politically sensitive places- BD, Lanka, Nepal, everywhere I have come across cases like this.

But leave aside that, let's consider the possibility of the survey being carried out totally in Kabul. The Daro speaking, Pashto south will be different. The North will be different. Isn't it obvious that different regions have different opinions. If we are to take an example, would you say that India is xenophobic based on reading Raj Thackeray's comments in a Mumbai tabloid?

Tell me what do you think?


Dear Mukesh Dot Kumar,

So by the most charitable interpretation, we have 71% of respondents expressing a very favourable or somewhat favourable opinion of India, and 15% expressing a very favourable or somewhat favourable opinion of Pakistan.

Meanwhile, 36% had a very unfavourable or somewhat unfavourable opinion of India, while 81% had a very unfavourable or somewhat unfavourable opinion of Pakistan.

Exaggeration by sloppy journalists aside, that doesn't change the picture very much from where I'm looking at it. I hope the Pakistanis can draw comfort about strategic depth in a nation where 4 out of 5 people hate their guts, but they've always been prone to fantasy. Meanwhile, 71% favourable for India is far in excess of what any other country seems to have received.

No doubt the results of a survey in more remote parts of Afghanistan may not have matched those drawn from a sample in Kabul. However, it can be argued that Kabul as the only metropolitan center has (1) the largest number of respondents well-informed and educated enough to have formulated an opinion on international matters and (2) the widest available cross-section of Afghan subnationalities and ethnicities within a single pollable area.

If the pollsters had indeed gone far afield and ranged the breadth of Afghanistan to ask their questions, my guess is that 99.9% of respondents would have had the same answer:
"get out of my compound before I blow your kufr head off".
Whether in Dari or Pushto, it makes little difference, and contributes nothing to anyone's understanding of Afghanistan.

Now to your specious little example:

If we are to take an example, would you say that India is xenophobic based on reading Raj Thackeray's comments in a Mumbai tabloid?


An example of what? Lahori logic? Is the comparison of a single person's editorials to a random sample of 1,534 respondents another instance of how sagaciously you "look into the details"?

Now if you took a random sample of 1,534 Mumbaikars and asked their opinion, you would actually get a much broader cross-section of Indian ethnicities than if you conducted the same poll in say Jhumritalaiya. I doubt very much that the opinion polled would be xenophobic, however, unless the foreigners in question were Pakis.

shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shaardula » 21 Jan 2010 17:49

hi mukesh kumar,

what you have said can be said of any survey in general. any body who has any experience in this knows how the fundamental assumptions made in the underlying math are very well defined, limited and have a strict structure. and we all know how assuming that reality(distribution of afghan opinion in this case) follows those structures is itself a giant leap of faith. but that has not prevented people from using surveys and we all use such numbers when they seem not to violate our common sense. and when they do violate our common sense, we go and figure out why.

in this case the data is saying building schools, hospitals, roads etc., - doing positive things and in general being a force for good tends to leave a positive impact on people. i.e., all the data is saying is, aam afghans prefer roti kapda makaan vidya udyog type measurable positive interventions, as opposed to being reduced to hapless pawns in the name of imperceptible, incomprehensible geo-political theories like strategic depth & ummah. unless you are besotted with the idea of describing the afghans entirely based on their tribal structure and ancient codes and denying them any other human dimension then this data should not violate any preheld common sensical views.

insaniyat as opposed to insanity

shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shaardula » 21 Jan 2010 18:59

Attitude. Approach.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... cess-zj-08

A Bangladeshi's SDRE attitude and approach.
the Bangladesh Rural Advancement Committee, has successfully exported its model of development to the war-torn country, where corruption and a Taliban insurgency have frustrated many Western aid efforts.

“A key element of BRAC's success in Afghanistan is that we are from a developing country. We know and understand poverty,” he told AFP after his knighthood was announced in Britain's New Year honours list.

“Outside Bangladesh our operations in Afghanistan are our largest. We have been there for the last seven years. We are cost effective — we pay Bangladeshi salaries — and yet achieve more than other aid groups,” Abed said.

“I saw a lot of opportunities in Afghanistan for BRAC. The government was fragile, donors were looking for organisations which could deliver,” Abed said.

So he took his organisation — which has a turnover of nearly one billion dollars and is Bangladesh's second largest employer after the government — to Kabul, the Afghan capital.

“We now have 3,900 (Afghani) staff. We are working in healthcare, education, micro-finance, empowerment of women, gender parity, and getting girls into schools,” he said.

BRAC extends credit to 180,000 families across the country, has a presence in all 32 of Afghanistan's provinces, and has just been granted contracts to run hospitals in 10 Afghan provinces — including one in Kabul.

The low-key success on the ground and their popularity with the Afghan government - “they think we're a great resource,” Abed said - could provide a new framework for development work in Afghanistan.


“As long as you work in villages, directly with the people, the (government) does not mind what you get up to,” he said.

BRAC receives funding from philanthropists such as George Soros and Bill Gates, but generates most of its income through commercial enterprises including an international retail clothing chain named Aarong.

In the long run, Abed believes his organisation, which also has interests in Internet providers, banks and tea plantations can help strengthen the Afghan state.

And as Kabul's government comes under constant criticism for corruption, BRAC also provides a means of channeling aid through village councils and a direct grants system called the National Solidarity Programme.

“We are working in 8,000 villages in Afghanistan on the National Solidarity Programme. We are building groups of people who will manage their own villages.”

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6820
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 22 Jan 2010 23:30

IOL on Flynn report: It was widely viewed as a slap in the face of the US intelligence. He recommended employing unemployed journalists as intel analysts in Afghanistan. It didn't just complain about incompetent spies.

Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 429
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Malayappan » 26 Jan 2010 06:59

UK seeks India help to nudge US On Afghanistan. Report from Hindustan Times
The London Conference on Afghanistan has hit a bump and the UK, the host, has sought India’s help to get the US on board for the meet that will discuss among other things a “regional stabilisation council”.
The UK — it is learnt, has told India that the Chinese response has been “frustrating”. While Iran has set some stringent conditions, both Russia and the US are not too keen on the council.

pgbhat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4078
Joined: 16 Dec 2008 21:47
Location: Hayden's Ferry

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 26 Jan 2010 07:38

^ This seems to be a desperate attempt by UKStan to be relevant. :-?

Airavat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2326
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31
Location: dishum-bishum
Contact:

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Airavat » 26 Jan 2010 08:19

Afghan drug trade and Russia

In Afghanistan, persuading farmers to ditch the opium poppy — which fuels the Taliban insurgency — in favor of other crops such as wheat is a major objective for NATO allies. Last year, the United States spent about $300 million on agricultural projects there, and projected spending this year is more than $425 million, not including separate funds from U.S. military coffers handed out by troops in the field.

Rustam Nazarov, head of Tajikistan's State Drug Control Agency, said the picture was now changing as Afghan drug runners turn their attention to an alternative route through Iran. "Starting last year drug smugglers are now exploring, with a large degree of success, a new supply route for Afghan drugs to the Russian market," he said. "The new route goes through Iran, the Caucasus region and then on to Russia." Nazarov said Iran, already long used by Afghan smugglers, has become particularly popular after relative stability returned to northern Afghan provinces that border Tajikistan.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7532
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Gerard » 27 Jan 2010 04:51

The UNSC has just removed five Taliban commanders from its sanctions list

Karzai to seek removal of Taliban from UN blacklist
Wakil Ahmad Mutawakkil, a minister of foreign affairs in the former Taliban government,
Abdul Hakim Monib, another former Taliban official who broke ranks with the movement and served as Karzai's governor in Uruzgan province.
Sanctions against Fazl Muhammad Faizan Qamaruddin, Shams-us-Safa Aminzai and Muhammad Musa Hotak will also be dropped.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4429
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 27 Jan 2010 05:35

Kept out of Afghan meet, India lodges protest with Turkey

New Delhi has lodged a protest with Ankara for keeping it out of the Afghanistan security conference in Istanbul, apparently at the behest of Islamabad. This may cast a shadow over Turkish President Abdullah Gul’s visit to India next fortnight. Gul, the organiser of the conference, is on a two-day visit to India from February 9 after which he will leave for Dhaka.

India, France and Japan, all of whom have a substantial stake in stabilising Kabul, had protested to Ankara for not being invited to the conference to mull over the military and political future of Afghanistan. Paris and Tokyo were squeezed in at the last moment with New Delhi being left out in the cold.
...
...

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2010 08:14

putnanja wrote:Kept out of Afghan meet, India lodges protest with Turkey

New Delhi has lodged a protest with Ankara for keeping it out of the Afghanistan security conference in Istanbul, apparently at the behest of Islamabad. This may cast a shadow over Turkish President Abdullah Gul’s visit to India next fortnight. Gul, the organiser of the conference, is on a two-day visit to India from February 9 after which he will leave for Dhaka.

India, France and Japan, all of whom have a substantial stake in stabilising Kabul, had protested to Ankara for not being invited to the conference to mull over the military and political future of Afghanistan. Paris and Tokyo were squeezed in at the last moment with New Delhi being left out in the cold.
...
...



Most likely they are having a Afghan insecurity conference. What matters is increasing support directly to afghan govt without all these to bit players pretending to be meaningful. For goodness sakes what role does half Islamist Turkey have in Afghanistan except to be conduit for ummah bombings?

Turkey is truly a Janus faced situation : neither in Europe nor in Asia. In Hindi its called "na ghar ka na ghatka!"

Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 429
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Malayappan » 27 Jan 2010 12:59

ramana wrote:Turkey is truly a Janus faced situation : neither in Europe nor in Asia. In Hindi its called "na ghar ka na ghatka!"

Recall Samuel Huntington's reference to the claim of Turkey to be the bridge between Asia and Europe as - just that. The bridge does not belong to either side!

Meanwhile a lot of irritation in Germany -
Fear of Rising Death Toll - Berlin Reluctant to Follow American Lead on Afghanistan from The Spiegel
Holbrooke's behavior creates the impression that this week is almost a complete waste of time for the Germans. The center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) will decide on its Afghanistan strategy on Monday, Afghan President Hamid Karzai arrives in Berlin on Tuesday, Chancellor Angela Merkel will issue an official statement on Afghanistan on Wednesday, and the conference in London takes place on Thursday. This is a lot of effort for a country that will be expected to simply accept something that has already been decided.
Germany has acquired the reputation of a discredited nation, a nation incapable of waging war, a cowardly nation. It is an accusation that has been around for a long time.
Until now, the Bundeswehr has focused mainly on its own safety in Afghanistan. If the Germans fall in line with the American strategy, this will no longer be possible, and the death toll will rise.

But more to the point -
Mützelburg was asked whether this meant that the Western allies would be negotiating with warlords like radical Islamist Gulbuddin Hekmatyar or Taliban leaders like Mullah Omar in the future. He replied that it did. This isn't Mützelburg's personal opinion, but the position of the German government. In a recent off-the-record comment, Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said that he could support every word of Mützelburg's.

Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 429
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Malayappan » 27 Jan 2010 13:28

Rajamohan comments. The first part of the article is clear, but his comments on talking to pakistan are poorly argued. He can't be so naive, so I am not sure what exactly is in his mind.The great Game Folio

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 671
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby milindc » 27 Jan 2010 14:10

Malayappan wrote:Rajamohan comments. The first part of the article is clear, but his comments on talking to pakistan are poorly argued. He can't be so naive, so I am not sure what exactly is in his mind.The great Game Folio


Rajamohan is a Khan sponsored lifafa. First his posting was at Singapore and now moved to Washington DC. All his articles tilt towards Uncle's viewpoint.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9931
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby sum » 27 Jan 2010 14:28

India, France and Japan, all of whom have a substantial stake in stabilising Kabul, had protested to Ankara for not being invited to the conference to mull over the military and political future of Afghanistan. Paris and Tokyo were squeezed in at the last moment with New Delhi being left out in the cold.

Shows how respected we are in the world pecking order and how seriously our diplomacy is taken.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2010 21:57

sum wrote:
India, France and Japan, all of whom have a substantial stake in stabilising Kabul, had protested to Ankara for not being invited to the conference to mull over the military and political future of Afghanistan. Paris and Tokyo were squeezed in at the last moment with New Delhi being left out in the cold.

Shows how respected we are in the world pecking order and how seriously our diplomacy is taken.



Not really. The gig is run by Turkey which is pretending/trying to shore up its credentials: big brother to Arabs and munna etc. So its folly to think they will let India into the conference. Besides India has bilateral relationship with Afghanistan. Why join multi-lateral gigs where they will tell India how to spend Indian resources? Maybe MEA thought as the Turkish President is visiting India in a couple of months they can get in, but didnt happen.

Need to show Turkey its dis-pleasure.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9931
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby sum » 27 Jan 2010 21:59

Maybe MEA thought as the Turkish President is visiting India in a couple of months they can get in, but didnt happen.

Need to show Turkey its dis-pleasure.

I expect the Turkish Prez to feel a real chill( of the weather :P ) in Delhi in this trip...

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2010 22:03

I don't know. India should hear him out and tie him up economcially to India. IOW his well being should depend on Indian interests eventually. Turkey has the historical baggage to mess up Indian plans in Central Asia. See while the Mughals whithered away the Ottomons clung on till Modern era. So there are memories of their relevance in that area despite present day irrelevance.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4840
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 27 Jan 2010 22:19

Karzai to seek removal of Taliban from UN blacklist


Operation "Cut & Run" is about to unfold as US pulls a vanishing act from Afghanistan.

vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2990
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby vera_k » 27 Jan 2010 22:24

ramana wrote:The gig is run by Turkey which is pretending/trying to shore up its credentials: big brother to Arabs and munna etc.


So how serious is this? Is this the beginning of a modern day Khilafat movement where the Turks attempt to wean away the ummah towards secular Islam?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2010 22:39

vera_k wrote:
ramana wrote:The gig is run by Turkey which is pretending/trying to shore up its credentials: big brother to Arabs and munna etc.


So how serious is this? Is this the beginning of a modern day Khilafat movement where the Turks attempt to wean away the ummah towards secular Islam?



If they think so, then they dont understand they were always at the periphery of Islamism. The Wahabists specifically came up to revive the Arab phase of Islam. There is no secular Islam.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6377
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby CRamS » 27 Jan 2010 23:21

milindc wrote:Rajamohan comments. The first part of the article is clear, but his comments on talking to pakistan are poorly argued. He can't be so naive, so I am not sure what exactly is in his mind.The great Game Folio


What he says doesn't even make logical sense. His basic thesis is that India must kiss up to TSP, and notice his cavalier snobbishness perhaps inculcated from his colonial sponsors: "India needs to get out of its Mumbai sulk", but he beats around the bush with this great game nonsense. Yeah right, TSPA will let go off all its demands just because India sucks up to it. What a retard.

That said, the other night, I had a long conversation with my Wal*Greens pharmacist who happened to be an Afghani. What he told me had a cognitive dissonace type effect. At first, he appeared to talk like a Paki, he is a Pashtun and Taliban supporter. So I went bersek when he said I was brainwashed into believing Taliban is evil, Talibal is that etc. But what he told me later was that even the Talibunnies are not that enamoured by TSP. If I thought he was dismissive of India's aspertions on Taliban, he was livid at TSP saying its the Punjabis who are killing the Pashtuns. So, why he said India should not sieze the moment, send troops and help Pashtuns defy the Durrand line? That would earn India universal Afghani gratitude and completely annhilate TSP influence. He told me that despite what I read, there is no love between a lot of Pashtuns and TSP and that includes Afghan Taliban. And of course, he was as devilish towards ISI as any of us. Need to think through his views and learn a bit more. What he said made me go back and re-read that Huffingtonpost article by an American female documentary filmmaker that was posted on BR a while back. Of course, the only thing he said that didn't make any sense was that India was the superpower in the region (yeah right with morons ki tamasha in full swing and TSPA/ISI/LeT dancing to victory tunes in Pindi, India is some superpower :-)); perhaps to make me feel good :-).

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2010 23:40

No he is right. India suffers from Hanuman Syndrome of being unaware of own strength.

See if tiger is brought up among goats, it thinks its a goat with stripes.

Its the far away visitor who spots the tiger. Some fear it will discover its true nature and want to harm it or declaw it (TSP and massa). Others(Afghans, Gulf sheikhdoms etc..) wish it asserts itself to ward of the hyenas (see sentence before this) bothering them.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4429
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 27 Jan 2010 23:47

U.S. to back reintegration of Taliban fighters

LONDON - The United States said Wednesday that it will support a plan to reintegrate Taliban fighters set to be announced by Afghan President Hamid Karzai at an international conference in London.

U.S. special representative Richard Holbrooke said Karzai will outline the plan Thursday to convince low-level and midlevel Taliban fighters who don't back al-Qaida to give up their fight against U.S. and NATO forces.
...
...
The Taliban rejected the plan, saying in a statement posted to their Web site Wednesday that their fighters wouldn't be swayed by financial incentives because they were fighting not for "money, property and position" but for Islam and an end to the foreign military presence in their country.
...
...
On Tuesday German Chancellor Angela Merkel put the total cost of the program at $500 million over five years, but Holbrooke said it was too early to put a price tag to the fund.

"We don't know enough about the plan," he said.
...
...
Meanwhile, NATO said it had reached agreement with Kazakhstan to open a new supply route for international forces through Central Asia, offering an alternative to the alliance's main logistics chain through Pakistan, which has come under repeated militant attack.
...

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2197
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shravan » 27 Jan 2010 23:51

CRamS wrote: He told me that despite what I read, there is no love between a lot of Pashtuns and TSP and that includes Afghan Taliban. And of course, he was as devilish towards ISI as any of us



He is right.

Check this Sufi D&D Link

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6377
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby CRamS » 27 Jan 2010 23:51

So it seems to be, that be it TSP's machinations visa vi India, or visa vi Afganisthan; its USA's support that gives TSP's claims legitimacy. So sheriff is itself corrupt, how can the victims expect any sense of justice and fair play?

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21052
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Prem » 27 Jan 2010 23:59

ramana wrote:No he is right. India suffers from Hanuman Syndrome of being unaware of own strength.

See if tiger is brought up among goats, it thinks its a goat with stripes.

Its the far away visitor who spots the tiger. Some fear it will discover its true nature and want to harm it or declaw it (TSP and massa). Others(Afghans, Gulf sheikhdoms etc..) wish it asserts itself to ward of the hyenas (see sentence before this) bothering them.


Goi thinking will change after 2020. They will be forced to come up with solutions like above. Must accumulate first before start spending , dispensing all love and affection to adversaries. Right now best to keep them on half boiling temperature.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4429
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 28 Jan 2010 00:50

Nothing like good or bad Taliban, Krishna tells Miliband

India today cautioned against accepting the "superfluous distinction" between good and bad Taliban and asserted that as a regional power it would like to be a part of the solution in Afghanistan.
...
...
"I drew Foreign Secretary's attention to the fact that al-Qaeda and its various manifestations and incarnations in different names and in different times should not confuse the issue on terror.

"India has seen through the games of Taliban that they were trying to create a superfluous distinction between good Taliban and a bad Taliban," he said.

Krishna said Talibanism was "terror driven" and India's assessment on the issue was "somewhat different".

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53006
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 28 Jan 2010 01:53

So Rajamohan prescription is being rejected.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby svinayak » 28 Jan 2010 02:55

CRamS wrote:
That said, the other night, I had a long conversation with my Wal*Greens pharmacist who happened to be an Afghani. What he told me had a cognitive dissonace type effect. At first, he appeared to talk like a Paki, he is a Pashtun and Taliban supporter. So I went bersek when he said I was brainwashed into believing Taliban is evil, Talibal is that etc. But what he told me later was that even the Talibunnies are not that enamoured by TSP. If I thought he was dismissive of India's aspertions on Taliban, he was livid at TSP saying its the Punjabis who are killing the Pashtuns. So, why he said India should not sieze the moment, send troops and help Pashtuns defy the Durrand line? That would earn India universal Afghani gratitude and completely annhilate TSP influence. He told me that despite what I read, there is no love between a lot of Pashtuns and TSP and that includes Afghan Taliban. And of course, he was as devilish towards ISI as any of us. Need to think through his views and learn a bit more. What he said made me go back and re-read that Huffingtonpost article by an American female documentary filmmaker that was posted on BR a while back. Of course, the only thing he said that didn't make any sense was that India was the superpower in the region (yeah right with morons ki tamasha in full swing and TSPA/ISI/LeT dancing to victory tunes in Pindi, India is some superpower :-)); perhaps to make me feel good :-).

Ask him next time - How much of the Pakistanis are afraid of India. Both military as well as Economic.
Ask him about what defences the Pakistanis use when facing India.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6820
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shyamd » 28 Jan 2010 05:27

ramana wrote:No he is right. India suffers from Hanuman Syndrome of being unaware of own strength.

See if tiger is brought up among goats, it thinks its a goat with stripes.

Its the far away visitor who spots the tiger. Some fear it will discover its true nature and want to harm it or declaw it (TSP and massa). Others(Afghans, Gulf sheikhdoms etc..) wish it asserts itself to ward of the hyenas (see sentence before this) bothering them.

And thats the truth! Hit the nail on the head there... The truth is we can! But we are not utilising our own strengths.

I feel we are not really interested in power projection, right now the people are more interested in counting stacks, be it politicians, businessmen, dentists/doctors, govt servants, everyone is making paisa. And I feel higher ups know that and they just want to let that happen and do the minimum thats necessary to continue... then once that is done, we can spend on wars. Thats the feeling I have.

amol.p
BRFite
Posts: 302
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 18:15
Location: pune

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby amol.p » 28 Jan 2010 10:08

Taliban Pay-for-Peace Plan Will Be Put in Motion in London

A $500 million plan to entice Taliban fighters to quit the growing insurgency in Afghanistan will be put in motion today by governments at a conference in London.

Governments attending the one-day meeting will pledge about $500 million to fund Taliban fighters who return to civilian life, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said .......................... :eek:

The reconciliation bid comes as the United Nations Security Council this week lifted sanctions against five former Taliban officials, in what the Afghan UN ambassador, Zahir Tanin, called “a message for anyone in the Taliban that wants to join the peace process.”

The Taliban dismissed the London talks as “a waste of time” and repeated demands for a pullout of international forces, Pakistan’s GEO television reported, citing an e-mailed statement.
“This time they have to be sure the money gets through,” said the European Policy Centre’s Islam.

The U.S. backs the plan, its special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, told MSNBC this week in an interview. Germany will contribute $70 million, Merkel has said.



.......this is the worst ever thing to happen.....giving $500 million as protection money for EU to taliban...not to attack there countries & soldiers in Afganistan............

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... iRmQ&pos=9

Bhaskar
BRFite
Posts: 202
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 23:46

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Bhaskar » 28 Jan 2010 10:39

CRamS wrote:So it seems to be, that be it TSP's machinations visa vi India, or visa vi Afganisthan; its USA's support that gives TSP's claims legitimacy. So sheriff is itself corrupt, how can the victims expect any sense of justice and fair play?

Who is US to decide if and how India should help in Afghanistan?
If the Indian government finds that helping Afghanistan is viable and affordable and if the people of Afghanistan want Indian troops there then there is nothing which stops India into helping Afghanistan economically/socially or militarily.

If US waged war on Afghanistan without getting any support, India can help the war-wrecked country in which it is much liked without any support as well if the people of that country want them there.

shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shaardula » 28 Jan 2010 19:14

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/world ... ?ref=world
Afghan Tribe to Fight Taliban in Return for Aid From U.S.
JALALABAD, Afghanistan — The leaders of one of the largest Pashtun tribes in a Taliban stronghold said Wednesday that they had agreed to support the American-backed government, battle insurgents and burn down the home of any Afghan who harbored Taliban guerrillas.

Elders from the Shinwari tribe, which represents about 400,000 people in eastern Afghanistan, also pledged to send at least one military-age male in each family to the Afghan Army or the police in the event of a Taliban attack.

In exchange for their support, American commanders agreed to channel $1 million in development projects directly to the tribal leaders and bypass the local Afghan government, which is widely seen as corrupt.

shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby shaardula » 28 Jan 2010 19:25

NATO and Kazakhstan Reach Transit Pact for Afghanistan

NATO and Kazakhstan completed an agreement Wednesday that will permit NATO allies to ship cargo through Kazakh territory to Afghanistan, providing an important alternative to vulnerable routes elsewhere.

Kazakhstan was the final holdout in the so-called northern supply line, which will allow cargo to pass overland from Europe to NATO troops in Afghanistan. Russia, Ukraine and Uzbekistan have signed similar agreements.


The accord with Kazakhstan will allow NATO forces to ship only nonlethal cargo by rail through the country’s territory. The cargo will then pass through Uzbekistan into Afghanistan, where the coalition is fighting a growing Taliban insurgency.

Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1847
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 28 Jan 2010 19:35

"It is also an insult to India by the US to arrogate to itself India's legitimate role in the country.Our relations with Afghanistan goes back thousands of years,while the US has just entered into the region by force.The Bamiyan Buddhas were and are a lasting symb"

Good one, Philip! The very name Afghanistan is of Indian origin, as are Kabul and Kandahar. The Bamiyan Buddhas come from the Gupta( not Kushan) era, when from at least the 3rd major Gupta monarch, Chandragutpa Vikramaditya, the area was directly under Indian influence. Almost the whole western media ignores the historic Indian connection with Afghanistan, which as you say, goes back thousands of years. You would think *somebody* in the international media could come up with a remark along the lines of "Another country that has interests and connections in Afghanistan is India, whose historical ties date back to the time when Afghanistan was Buddhist and Hindu, long before the arrival of Islam, and before that of the British and Americans" These guys got problems of empathy and recognition, big time.

chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1261
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby chanakyaa » 28 Jan 2010 20:25

Boss, I've some disagreement here. My apologize for being party spoiler.

For all that historical connections to the Afg., yes we all should be proud. But, other than selling lots of history books, what have we done to expand that historical relationship into modern times, before the war? Why couldn't GoI stop making Hindoos from wearing jewish style yellow star and be humiliated under the Talooban Islam rule? Instead, we did what we always do, is protest.

And what's up with demanding respect? You earn it. And, especially in tough terrians such as Afg. it is difficult to earn it without holding Kalashnikova in the other hand b'cas you don't know good abdul from bad one. What is GoI expecting? SOmebody to come and give them a Nobel prize for her good work?

Current engagement in Afg. is great and it would be nice to see GoI uses this opportunity to polish skills and gain experience under the strong Anglo shadow. B'cas as long as TSP is solvent, aam abdul in Afg. and others who are sleeping with him, can't get a good night sleep. It is going to be an expensive on-the-job training for GoI. But, its worth it.

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7532
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Gerard » 28 Jan 2010 20:53


Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1847
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 28 Jan 2010 21:00

"Why couldn't GoI stop making Hindoos from wearing jewish style yellow star and be humiliated under the Talooban Islam rule?"

I was in India at the time, and in a media programme that referred to the issue, there was a stupid and desultory remark made about caste inequality, to equate it with the Taliban policy. There were Americans who were more outraged than some Indians, including a legislator( forget his name- Gary...) who declared "We are all Hindus today". What irony.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: darshhan, Google [Bot], mappunni, prasannasimha, Thakur_B, VikramA and 65 guests