Afghanistan News & Discussion

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Jan 2010 05:41

Actually couple of dozen RAPEs and RAPEttes related to corpse kammandus need waterboarding.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 09 Jan 2010 07:57

A high court judge in central Dai Kundi province has put a barber behind bars for refusing to visit his residence to trim his beard

Syed Ahmed, 38, a barber in the provincial capital of Nilli, ended up in jail for disobeying the order of Judge Daud Bakhtiyari. Refusing to go into details of the case, the judge thundered: "No one except the chief justice has the right to ask me questions about the arrest." He reiterated his warning: "Anyone defying me or the court will be handed down a similar punishment."

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jan 2010 09:41

This 1997 photo released Thursday, Jan. 7, 2010, by Keith Country Day School shows Elizabeth Hanson. Hanson is one of the seven CIA employees killed in a suicide bombing at a remote base near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. Hanson, 30, along with the other CIA employees died Dec. 30 in Khost after a suicide bomber detonated an explosive device.

So, this lady is the mother of 3 and station chief? All at just 30?

Amazing that CIA agent's identities are being unmasked like this ( though they re dead)

Imad Mughniyah, the man who orchestrated the execution of the deadliest attack on the CIA only died 25 years after the suicide bombing of the Beirut Embassy in April 1983. The Americans can at very best only claim partial credit for that.

The people who actually ordered the attacks in Tehran have never faced any sort of personal retribution for that attack, nor have the people in Damascus who facilitated and signed off on it.

So, the Amir-khan is more hype than substance when it comes to "state actors"? They do go after "non-state actors" with gusto but "state actors" seem to be a different case.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Jan 2010 09:48

^
Actually there were two ladies. One with 8 years experience in A'stan (IIRC) and other a PhD in language and culture. Let me try and dig where I read that.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Jan 2010 09:58

CIA victim interested in behavior behind economics

As a high school student, Elizabeth Hanson chose an inspiring quote about life's journey to run with her photo in the yearbook. She possibly never dreamed her path someday would take her from Rockford in northern Illinois to a remote base near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border where she worked for the CIA.

Duane Hanson III of Rockford said the family plans to issue a statement soon about his sister, his only sibling. Until then, he said only that she was born and raised in Rockford, wasn't married or engaged, and that the family hasn't yet planned a memorial service. He said it would be a private service.

She attended Maine's Colby College at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an event that may have helped shape her career path. The attacks prompted Hanson, an economics major, to review the relationship between religion and economics in her senior year.

Her provocatively titled effort, "Faithless Heathens: Scriptural Economics of Judaism, Christianity and Islam," picked up threads from Christianity's Bible, Judaism's Torah and Islam's Quran, and examined the major monotheistic religions' approach toward economics.

"She wasn't the superstar student that you'd get in a textbook sense but she had an intellectual curiosity and this interest in looking beyond the textbook," he said. "She wasn't very interested in the raw data, but the behaviors behind it."

The attack was a major blow to the CIA in Afghanistan. The bomber killed the CIA base chief in Khost and wounded the Kabul deputy station chief. The base chief, a 45-year-old woman with three small children, was a member of a former unit known as Alec Station created before the Sept. 11 attacks to track down Osama bin Laden.

Former intelligence officials said the base chief had a vast knowledge of al-Qaida. Her family declined to comment Thursday.

Looks like base chief was part of Michael Scheuer's team.

More revelations.

CIA bomber was 50 feet from most of his victims

WASHINGTON - The suicide bomber who carried out an attack on a CIA firebase in Afghanistan detonated the device as he was about to be searched, and used an explosive so powerful that it killed agency operatives who were as far as 50 feet away, a U.S. intelligence official said Friday.

"The idea that he was treated like a movie star surrounded by adoring fans is just garbage," said the U.S. intelligence official. "The guy was about to be searched when he touched off his bomb. " CIA security officers were "right next to him," the official said. "The others who were killed or wounded were roughly 50 feet away."

"The kind of people who can penetrate Al Qaeda are jihadis themselves," the U.S. intelligence official said. "They're the ones you need, even if you can't trust themThe next Mother Theresa won't get in."

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jan 2010 10:10

"The idea that he was treated like a movie star surrounded by adoring fans is just garbage," said the U.S. intelligence official. "The guy was about to be searched when he touched off his bomb. " CIA security officers were "right next to him," the official said. "The others who were killed or wounded were roughly 50 feet away."

It might be garbage but does any sane org gather all the important people in a room and then search a suspect inside the same room?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Jan 2010 10:15

Suppose some state agency with genuine reason to be angry with TSP starts bumping off nodes in the TSPian state/non-state terror network. Whom will the TSPA blame? The Yanks? the yehudis? the yindoos? All 3? Publicly they'll blame YYY but privately, who will they try to go after?
/Just wondering only.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Jan 2010 10:18

sum wrote:It might be garbage but does any sane org gather all the important people in a room and then search a suspect inside the same room?

Not to mention there were six injured as well.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 09 Jan 2010 10:35

Video of Turkish wife of the CIA bomber. She supports what he did.
[youtube]Idla9Gvql3U&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Jan 2010 03:49

How this suicide bomber opened a new front in Al-Qaeda’s war

He was driving across the border from Pakistan where he had spent a year becoming close to Ayman al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden’s Egyptian deputy. That morning, Wednesday December 30, Balawi had been picked up at the Ghulam Khan border crossing by an Afghan army commander called Arghawan, who was in charge of security at the Chapman base. The pair drove to the village of Mermandi, near Khost in southeastern Afghanistan, where at about 12.30pm they were met by Arghawan’s driver.

The driver, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Sunday Times that he had been instructed one week earlier by his boss to paint his white Toyota Corolla red, to put in tinted glass, and to keep his mobile phone on him at all times.

“Arghawan was waiting for me in a white Corolla with Balawi in the back seat,” he said. The driver had never seen Balawi before but said “he was obviously trusted by my commander, Arghawan. The two men clearly knew each other”.

According to the guard, Balawi had been to the base before. He claimed that before the doctor reached the first gate, the Afghan security guards in charge of the perimeter security were instructed by US soldiers to go into their rooms.

“They did not want any Afghans to see Balawi,” he said. A US army vehicle then led the car through the next two gates, reaching the inside of the base before stopping outside a block of buildings used by the CIA and military intelligence to debrief their sources.

As Balawi stepped out of the car, seven CIA officers and a handful of soldiers gathered around. According to the guard, it was then that Balawi detonated his bomb, killing eight and injuring six.

Arghawan, still sitting in the driver’s seat, survived the initial blast but a US soldier shot him in the head with his pistol, assuming that he was part of the bomb plot.

“There were lots of body parts,” said the guard. “The suicide bomber’s legs were all that was left of him. He had hidden the bomb beneath his pattu.”

Gary Berntsen, who led the CIA team to Tora Bora, said the attack “took out decades of experience”. Robert Baer, another former CIA officer, described it as “the equivalent of the army losing a battalion”.

“I can think of at least six basic rules the CIA broke,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Tony Shaffer, a CIA-trained officer who directed operations in Afghanistan for the military's Defence Intelligence Agency in 2003-4.

“You never bring an asset onto a base — apart from anything else you don’t want him to be observed. You can’t be so naive as not to think the Taliban are watching who goes in and out. And why on earth were so many [agents] gathered together?”

Balawi apparently linked up with members of the so-called Haqqani network run by Jalaluddin Haqqani, the Afghan warlord, and his son Siraj. Based in North Waziristan, one of the tribal areas on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, the Haqqanis are close to Al-Qaeda and were one of the main targets of the CIA agents based just over the border at Chapman.

Agents used polygraphs or lie-detectors to check Balawi’s sincerity. According to one CIA official, he pinpointed several Al-Qaeda targets, which were attacked by US forces, and was “extremely well paid”.

It is the Pakistani links that will most concern the Americans. The TTP has never before carried out an attack inside Afghanistan and the video raises questions about the involvement of the ISI, Pakistan’s intelligence service which has close links with the Haqqani network.

One US official said the chemical fingerprint of the bomb that killed the seven CIA agents matched the kind produced by Pakistani intelligence.

Meanwhile, security has been tightened at Chapman. Even the new head of security is searched every time he enters the base. Sniffer dogs are also on patrol.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 10 Jan 2010 12:50

this is how the west viewed Jihad 25 years ago.
but the comments show the aam amirkhani is well aware of the realities of life.

Here SRK proclaims his Afghani roots.

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Jan 2010 19:21

Gary Berntsen, who led the CIA team to Tora Bora, said the attack “took out decades of experience”. Robert Baer, another former CIA officer, described it as “the equivalent of the army losing a battalion”.

As i had said on the day after the blast, it is a MASSIVE, MASSIVE blow to the CIA in Af-pak handling. Throw in the fact that the CIA second in command of A'tan is seriously injured and we know that this is a crippling blow.

One thing is for sure: this incident wont be taken lightly.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 11 Jan 2010 01:36

Lax Security May Have Contributed to CIA Deaths

Mike Scheuer says if al-Balawi was not searched, thus leaving the body explosives undetected, it may have been because he was an agent of Jordanian intelligence, which had vouched for him, and the CIA did not want to offend its sister intelligence organization.

"When you are working together with one of your most trusted intelligence services, which the Jordanians are one of our most trusted, you cannot treat them as some kind of third-class citizen," he said. "You almost have to rely on them to do the job themselves. This man was handled by the Jordanians in conjunction with us. And so you do not frisk a friend."

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 11 Jan 2010 01:54

Duped, 30 Indians stranded in Kabul

Dozens of Indian labourers have been forced to take refuge in a Kabul gurdwara after job agents who promised lucrative jobs in the unstable capital disappeared, leaving the men penniless and without passports.

Instead, when he arrived in November, he was locked up in a house with other labourers, given only one meal per day and no work or salary. When his visa expired a month later, the agent vanished and the men turned to their embassy in desperation.

A mix of men from Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and other states now spend most of the day dozing under blankets waiting for rescue.

“About six months earlier, we had stray cases of Indians sent by unscrupulous agents to Afghanistan from Gulf countries, mainly from Dubai, on the false promise of remunerative employment,” the Indian embassy in Kabul said in a statement. “This trickle suddenly turned to a veritable flood, including also some cases of use of fraudulent visas,” the statement added.

The embassy is helping cover the costs of feeding the men, and has also sent doctors to check their health, but declined to give an overall total of the number affected.

Life is so harsh in India for these folks that they pay money to get in to war zones, even on fraudulent visas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2010 02:49

Shouldn't this be in the "Know your India" thread too?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jan 2010 23:26

First batch of stranded Indians back

With a little help from expatriates in Kabul and the support of the Indian embassy, the first batch of Indian workers that had been stuck in Afghanistan for the past several weeks after getting duped by travel agents returned to the country on Monday.

Sources said the first set of four labourers, belonging to Azamgarh district in UP, who were stranded in Kabul managed to catch a flight back to India on Monday. While the Indian embassy helped them with exit visas, a few Kabul-based expatriates pitched in for the tickets back home.
...
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Most of the stranded workers found shelter at the local gurdwara where they are being provided food by the locals. The gurdwara is also being financially supported by the Indian embassy and officials have made personal contributions to keep the kitchens running, sources said.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 12 Jan 2010 23:42

Great news.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jan 2010 08:53

UAE meet of 40 countries discusses Afghanistan. No invitation to India.

Precursor to Jan 28 London Conference. Pakistan has been working extra hard to isolate and exclude India from these conferences. Gilani made a plea to the boyish Miliband in his recent visit to Islamabad.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 13 Jan 2010 09:00

^ why go to meet with ummah brothers where cash-mere issue will be trotted ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jan 2010 12:02

Police shooting on protests against burning of Koran by NATO forces

Looks like a patently drummed up charge by the Taliban to whip up sentiments, especially knowing it happened in Helmand.

Nine people were killed when shooting broke out during a mass demonstration in a provincial Afghan town over the alleged burning of a Koran by foreign troops, police said Wednesday.

The violence erupted on Tuesday in the Garmsir district of the southern province of Helmand over rumours that NATO-led forces had defiled a copy of the Muslim holy book during a military operation, local residents and police said.

"During today's (Tuesday's) protest an insurgent sniper shot an Afghan official who was within FOB (Forward Operating Base) Delhi in Garmsir district," ISAF said in a statement.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 13 Jan 2010 12:24

One of the British Televisions recently asked a very straight forward question which I do not think any US politicians would answer. Billions of American people's tax money were spent on War on Iraq and Afganistan. But then after the war who benefits it is the private petrol companies. Why cannot the tax payers money be repaid? Why cannot the Petrol companies nationalised to take the money back into taxes? Because there is not tax left everywhere one has to cut benefits for the elderly people and for children and so on. It is better to make the Petrol companies to pay this amount back or just nationalised them like banks so that the tax payers money is seen as investment in them. Those companies that work in Afganistan and in Iraq must be nationalised at least those companies that started working after the war and their well must be taken by the government itself.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 13 Jan 2010 20:35

pgbhat wrote:^ why go to meet with ummah brothers where cash-mere issue will be trotted ?

PGB sir, I disagree with your view on this one. I don't know why we are so scared of cash-mere issue. I think when it comes to international diplomacy, active engagement and not isolation is the key. I've not been to such meetings, but I can say this with confidence that if GoI firmly sticks to its policy that if cash-mere issue does not belong to a certain meeting, period! it does not belong. Just stand up and tell the chair of the meeting to shup up and stick to the agenda. I think the west like to tease GoI on cash-mere but they are not interested in interfering. GoI's policy of no interference by third country in cash-mere issue is great but the fact that it comes up in unwanted meetings (esp. Arab sponsored) is failure of showing a backbone and clever diplomacy.

On a much broader level, it is such a tragedy that in spite of having a sizable muslim population IN (and GoI) has not positively engaged these countries (with some exceptions) and let TSP often steal the show. Its not that I highly think of UAE and their meetings, but what an irony that unkil and its trans-atlantic partner, in spite of killing and humiliations of over last 5 decades in middle-east and asia has managed to be savior of all.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jan 2010 21:33

I think the whole jordanian bomber plot is an ISI handiwork. The planning of the targets, the explosives used, and who benefits the most all point to ISI handiwork.

ISI-> Haqqani network ->Al-Q-> Jordanian bomber.

AjitK · Post by **AjitK** » 13 Jan 2010 22:42

Dwindling Sikh Community Struggles To Endure In Kabul

For many years, Sikhs were a prominent part of Kabul’s commercial scene, occupying prominent positions as traders, entrepreneurs, and, later, currency exchange specialists. But in today’s Afghanistan, many Sikhs find themselves marginalized and struggling to maintain their distinct cultural profile in Kabul.

Before more than three decades of nearly uninterrupted strife began with the 1979 Soviet invasion, an estimated 200,000 Sikhs lived in Afghanistan, many of them concentrated in the capital. Although Sikhs escaped the level of violence experienced by Hazaras during the Taliban era, many Sikhs nevertheless came to feel unwelcome and left the country. According to one estimate, only 170 Sikh families now remain in Afghanistan.

Singh indicated that new battles for Afghanistan’s Sikhs are looming. "A new urban plan for the city will require it [the temple] to be demolished, along with a shrine to Guru Nanak that we’ve been hoping to repair after being damaged during Afghanistan’s three decades of war," Singh said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Jan 2010 07:56

chanakyaa wrote:
pgbhat wrote:^ why go to meet with ummah brothers where cash-mere issue will be trotted ?
PGB sir, I disagree with your view on this one.

Folks, I was wrong in saying India was uninvited. See this report: India wary of military role in Afghanistan

More than 40 countries discussed Afghanistan and Pakistan on Monday at Abu Dhabi. Satinder K. Lambah, special envoy in the Prime Minister’s office, represented India during the daylong brainstorming session.

“This was essentially a preparatory meeting for the London conference scheduled for January 28,” Mr. Lambah told The Hindu.

“India’s support towards building Afghanistan’s civilian infrastructure has now become visible.

The new parliament building in Kabul is coming up fast and a state-of-the-art children’s hospital that India has built has drawn international attention,” the sources said. The training of Afghan diplomats and government personnel in India is going on in full swing, as is the effort to impart knowledge to Afghan students in advanced areas including information technology, the sources observed.

India is deliberately keeping away from a high profile security role in Afghanistan, in view of the prevailing “regional sensitivities.”

AnantD · Post by **AnantD** » 15 Jan 2010 08:38

Intersting take on Obamas war with Karzai:

http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LA14Df01.html

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Jan 2010 13:44

Suicide bombers, gunmen attack central Kabul

KABUL (Reuters) - Taliban gunmen, some wearing suicide vests, launched a commando-style assault on Kabul on Monday, attacking banks, a shopping mall and Afghan government ministries.

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Indians are safe.

niran · Post by **niran** » 18 Jan 2010 15:31

shravan wrote:
-----

Indians are safe.

there are reports that Ambulances were used to transport Talibs.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Jan 2010 19:23

As per Vikram Sood on Twitter:
The terrorists in Kabul are sending a message to Robert Gates and his President and if there are expat casualties there will be more pressure from their countries to call it quits. Kabul is today Afghanistan's Mumbai 26/11. Same style bt larger num and maybe same masters.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 19 Jan 2010 02:21

India advises US against exit from Afghanistan

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External Affairs Minister S M Krishna is believed to have told Richard Holbrooke, the US special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, that an early exit by the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) would leave the conflict-ravaged country at the mercy of the Taliban.
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Krishna is understood to have told the US special envoy that New Delhi noted that Obama’s new Af-Pak strategy sought to eliminate the sources of terrorism in Afghanistan and also focussed on the sources of terrorism that operated out of Pakistani territory contiguous to Afghanistan.

No agenda in Afghanistan: India

NEW DELHI: India on Monday told the United States that it had no agenda in Afghanistan except to see it emerge as a stable and peaceful country.

To this end, India would continue to work in Afghanistan on development projects but with no geo-political ambitions forming the backdrop to this effort, External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna told visiting U.S. Special Envoy on Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke here.

Mr. Holbrooke was also told about India’s involvement in infrastructure building in Afghanistan such as a new Parliament building, transmission lines and roads. All of this indicated no activity that should cause a security concern to some other country.
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Sources in the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said Mr. Krishna indicated India’s keenness to see the situation stabilise in Afghanistan but professed its disinterestedness on other issues of tactical military importance.

Emerging from the talks, Mr. Holbrooke said India was a “tremendously important participant in the search for peace and stability not only in south Asia but throughout the vast region that stretches from the Mediterranean to the Pacific.”
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MEA officials said they had noted Mr. Holbrooke’s assertion in Kabul on Sunday that the U.S. felt it was up to India and Pakistan to normalise the relations.

Mr. Holbrooke had denied he was acting as a messenger or a go-between in trying to improve ties between the two neighbours.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 19 Jan 2010 16:10

Old one, but very much relevant and gives a link to what was planned and thought earlier and gives a perspective of how things are moving around.

Indian Army tasking to Afghanistan faces multiple roadblocks
Wednesday, July 15, 2009
By Saurabh Joshi

The casualties suffered by the British Army in Afghanistan and the subsequent furor in London over insufficient deployment of men and materiel to support the British mission in Afghanistan have led many commentators in the United Kingdom (UK) to question the mission and its objectives.

There is a feeling that the lack of a good definition of success for the British Army in Afghanistan has led to ‘mission-creep’, with some commentators even calling the current mission one with the objective of propping up a corrupt, inefficient, faction-ridden and drug-trading regime and providing security for an election that is apprehended to be ridden with irregularities.

On the other hand Major General Athar Abbas, Director General of Pakistan’s Inter Services Public Relations admitted to CNN that the Pakistan military is in contact with Taliban leader Mullah Omar and can facilitate a peace dialogue between the Taliban in return for concessions from Washington with respect to India.

Last week again, the Chief of General Staff (CGS) of the Afghan National Army (ANA) General Bismillah Khan Mohammadi was in New Delhi on a four-day visit. The official statement of the Indian Army said:

India shares warm and friendly relations with Afghanistan based on historical ties and traditional linkages. India supports a sovereign, stable, democratic and prosperous Afghanistan and is committed to building strategic partnership in all dimensions to this effect. With this commitment regular exchange of visits at political, diplomatic and military level have taken place in the last few years. During the visit he is likely to interact with senior military and civilian defence hierarchy to discuss various contemporary issues.

Speculation had been rife about the possibility of an Afghan request, especially after the visit of General Mohammadi, for increased Indian Army involvement in Afghanistan, with even General Abbas in his interview with CNN apprehending such an eventuality, saying, “What we see as a concern is an over-involvement of Indians in Afghanistan that becomes a concern – particularly if one is watching the security calculus in that.”

General Abbas said, “The fear is, tomorrow what happens if these Americans move out and they are replaced by Indians as military trainers? That becomes a serious concern. So these kind of apprehensions are there, and they are talked about and they are consulted.”

He said Pakistan has been informing the US-led coalition countries about its concerns. “They have to have a line because if [it] goes beyond them, beyond the line then of course the situation would take an ugly turn,” he warned.

With the British Army under pressure in Afghanistan and the US, already in the process of implementing a surge there with no additional troop deployment planned this year, an Indian Army deployment would not be entirely unwelcome to the US and British forces in Afghanistan. It is also not as if the Indian Army has not thought along these lines. In fact, the 18 Infantry Division (RAPID) of the X Corps of the Indian Army has already been earmarked for this eventuality, should it arise. But there are problems with geopolitics, logistics, finance and Indian Army strength levels. Your correspondent spoke to a senior member of the Indian security establishment in the Indian government to get an idea of the discussion on this issue.

“India would be uncomfortable operating without the UN flag. This is also the reason India did not join the international naval task force against piracy in the Arabian Sea and Red Sea, CTF (Combined Task Force)-150. The MEA (Ministry of External Affairs) too might consider it too adventurous,” says the officer.

“Joining up with a NATO/ISAF or non-NATO/ISAF US mission in Afghanistan would be politically problematic in India,” he explains, adding, “But ideally, if India wants to be recognized as a Great Power, it should be able to shoulder the responsibilities of a Great Power, without needing the umbrella of the UN.”

The brasshat, who prefers anonymity, goes on, “Then you have international reaction. For a Pakistan that has trust issues with India, this would be a strategic encirclement. Pakistan would find it far more difficult to direct terrorism against India with impunity and without fear of punitive measures, its nuclear weapons notwithstanding. Needless to say, Pakistan would be terribly unhappy about the idea of Indian forces on both sides, as has come out in the remarks made by General Abbas.”

According to him, it is open to question whether the US would be able to persuade Pakistan on this issue. “And the pound of flesh demanded by Pakistan from the US for this would be best left to the imagination,” he says. But the initial demand would almost certainly be focused towards India and would probably be one with which India would refuse to acquiesce. “Perhaps – and this is a long shot – an offer of more aid from the US would persuade the Pakistani generals,” he shrugs.

Logistics would be an even bigger problem for India than it is for the US. Even if Pakistan were to agree to the basic idea, it would be extremely unlikely for them to allow the transit of men and materiel through their territory into Afghanistan, the main supply route. It should also be noted that this route is extremely vulnerable to attack by Taliban as has been seen by the numerous attacks on key bridges and US supplies.

“In theory, we could request Iran for a transit route, shipping materiel to Bandar Abbas port in the Persian Gulf and then by road to the Afghan border at Zaranj and on to Delaram and then the Afghan Ring Road. As it is this Zaranj-Delaram road was built by our Border Roads Organization (BRO) for the strategic purpose of establishing a supply route to Afghanistan that was not dependent on Pakistan,” he explains, but points to more hurdles to come.

“Say we get the transit rights. It would take a huge financial outlay to supply our troops. How many troops are we talking about here? As of April this year, the US-led coalition had around 100,000 troops. Of course the surge of 17,000 troops is being implemented now. This is besides almost 100,000 in the ANA and Afghan police. The Soviets had a bit more than a 100,000 troops during the ’80s with the Afghan army matching that number. If the proposal is, as General Abbas apprehends, it would be a long-term mission and could result in us having to send in far more troops than we originally thought of deploying. And then we would also have to keep force levels up back home as well and may have to raise additional divisions.”

In the end, he says, “Sure we’d be only too happy to be there. Not only would this be ideal after 26/11, it would also give us a strategic advantage in dealing with Pakistan. India is generally well-liked in Afghanistan and we have extensive experience in COIN (Counter Insurgency) Ops (Operations) so we could do it if we deploy there. The emphasis needs to be on building up the institutions of the Afghan army and police to maybe four to five times their current strength. Proper training and equipment has to be given to them and they have be to built up into a cohesive force so that they become capable of handling the COIN Ops themselves. Of course, the US-led forces have tried to do that, but with limited success, because of the corruption and factionalism in the Afghan government.”

The US is perceived to be trying to ‘finish the job’ in Afghanistan and leave in 2-5 years time. The British too are under pressure to withdraw from the conflict there. “They could well leave, but Al Qaeda and the Taliban will probably become a bigger threat. The British need to rethink their recent cheering of the Pakistan Army’s defeat of the Taliban in Swat. There is no cause for satisfaction yet. Let’s see what happens after the Afghan presidential elections next month,” says the officer.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 20 Jan 2010 00:11

Good, now apart from training the army already in a small scale. India is going to train the police. Ask the americans to airlift them into Dilli and other areas. India should limit itself to training af-pak I feel. The recent attacks are just showing that Taleb's want all Afghanistan, they feel victory is achievable.

Britain and US consider asking India to train Afghan National Police

The United States and Britain are exploring ways to boost India’s role in Afghanistan, including a controversial proposal for it to train the Afghan National Police (ANP), The Times has learnt.

Richard Holbrooke, the US envoy for Pakistan and Afghanistan, was expected to discuss that and other ideas when he began a visit to India yesterday, his first in almost a year.

Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, also arrives in Delhi today to discuss issues including expanding co-operation in Afghanistan and boosting US arms sales to India.

The two visits follow a low-profile trip to Delhi last week by Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, the British “Afpak” envoy, who discussed the ANP training proposal with officials.
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The diplomatic activity reflects a growing desire on all three sides to boost co-operation on regional security, despite differences over Pakistan, a close US ally that is India’s arch enemy. India fiercely resisted being included in Mr Holbrooke’s formal brief last year, and rejected his attempts to raise the issue of Kashmir, which is claimed by India and Pakistan and seen by some as a root cause of regional instability.

Now, however, India appears to want to play a more active role in Afghanistan largely because it fears that Pakistan will engineer a Taleban takeover when foreign troops leave.

“We’ve spent quite a lot of time now talking with the Americans,” M. K. Narayanan, India’s National Security Adviser, told The Times. “We’re involved in infrastructure, we’re involved in building roads and electricity and we’re willing to do even more.”

India also wants to offset the growing influence of its newer rival, China, which is developing a huge copper mine south of Kabul and plans to build a railway across Afghanistan. The US hopes that India, which has already contributed more than $1 billion in aid to Afghanistan, can use its growing economic, political and military clout to act as a democratic bulwark in the region.

But any expansion of India’s influence in Afghanistan risks antagonising Pakistan, which accuses Delhi of using its consulates there to support separatist movements in Pakistan.

The US Embassy declined to give any details about Mr Holbrooke’s visit, or Mr Gates’s, but Mr Narayanan said that the Americans were exploring ways for India to contribute more in Afghanistan — possibly by training the 82,000-strong ANP, which Germany has been handling since 2002.

“We have the best institution for training the civilian police, and the paramilitary to some extent . . . if you want a civilian police with a little bit of strength to the elbow,” Mr Narayanan said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Jan 2010 04:57

India most favoured by Afghans: Poll

India was ranked as the most favoured country with 71 per cent of the votes while Pakistan received two per cent of the votes, according to the results of a poll commissioned by the BBC, American Broadcasting Company and German Broadcasting company ARD.

Germany was at the second spot with 59 per cent of the votes in the poll conducted between December 11 and 23 last year.

The U.S. came third with 51 per cent votes followed by Iran with 50 per cent and 39 per cent for Britain.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 21 Jan 2010 10:45

Making Headway in Afghanistan

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 482018.cms

What would be interesting to know is how representative was the poll of the Afghan populations view. Hope that this was not one of the multilateral efforts carried out over cocktails at the Serena.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 21 Jan 2010 10:58

Interestingly, BBC which carried news of the same poll did not mention any country specifically.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8448930.stm

Same report different interpretations. The main report can be found here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p ... anpoll.pdf

Quite an interesting read to see how different news agencies have drawn different conclusions.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 21 Jan 2010 10:59

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Making Headway in Afghanistan

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 482018.cms
What would be interesting to know is how representative was the poll of the Afghan populations view. Hope that this was not one of the multilateral efforts carried out over cocktails at the Serena.

I see a recent trend where people love to $hit in their own plates.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 21 Jan 2010 11:15

Dear Milind,

Maybe you'd be more familiar with how these multilateral funded surveys are carried out, but given what I have seen, it's always worthwhile not to get carried away. Looking into the details always helps.

Now, if you had actually made the effort to go into the original report from which this was drawn, you will see:
1) The data is open to interpretation, For example the numbers for India and Pakistan are not matched like to like.
2) There is no information of how the 1100 odd samples were drawn.

All this tells me just one thing, "Not to take things at face value, but read the actual report rather than just rely on any newspapers interpretation."

If you still hold that not taking DDM's reports at face value but searching for details is finding shit, I would gladly bear that epithet.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Jan 2010 11:33

Mukesh.Kumar wrote: Now, if you had actually made the effort to go into the original report from which this was drawn, you will see:
1) The data is open to interpretation, For example the numbers for India and Pakistan are not matched like to like.

Dear Mukesh Dot Kumar,

Would you care to explain, in statistical terms, what you mean by this statement? And on what it is founded?

Link

Question 39 on Page 22 of the report, to which the answers have been referred to in Indian media (popularity of India vs. popularity of other countries) makes no mention of a different sample size or different distribution of respondents for each country-specific opinion being polled.

It seems you have merely assumed that the numbers are not "matched like to like". Rather like some people once assumed "1 Pakistani fauji= 10 SDRE Yindoos".

2) There is no information of how the 1100 odd samples were drawn.

From the document:

This survey was conducted for ABC News, the BBC and ARD by the Afghan Center for Socio-Economic and Opinion Research (ACSOR) based in Kabul, a D3 Systems Inc. subsidiary. Interviews were conducted in person, in Dari or Pashto, among a random national sample of 1,534 Afghan adults from 11-23 December, 2009.

That is about as much detail as is publicly stated about sampling from any poll I have seen, by Pew, Gallup or any other source.

But again, that hasn't stopped you from casting aspersions about

Hope that this was not one of the multilateral efforts carried out over cocktails at the Serena.

Now if there were 1,534 Afghans being interviewed by Western pollsters over cocktails at the Serena, I'm sure that the world's most trustworthy and unimpeachable organization...the International Statistics Institute... would have known about it and sent over a Soosai bomber to register their opinion.

Also, your mathematical tendencies of describing 1,534 as = "1,100 odd" don't say very much about the "attention to detail" that you have claimed you lavish on such reports. They do suggest some possibilities about your origin though.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 21 Jan 2010 11:40

The coalition forces in Afganistan are luring us and if we are going into the Afgan spidey web, better win their hearts and minds while the Taliban and their Pak terror support groups (both state and non-state) will be gnawing at these efforts just like they do in Kashmir

first thing would be to fence the Af-Pak border, wonder why US hasn't resorted to this already? short term vision? even TSP is supportive of fencing their western border

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 21 Jan 2010 11:53

Dear Rudra,

While the news looks good at face value, why not probe. If the data's opinion expressed in TOI is valid great, but always helps to check. The Like to Like comparison debates the interpretation by newspapers in Indian and Paki popularty figures- 71% vs 2%
See below:
India 2010 2009
% %
Very favourable 29 27
Somewhat favourable 42 47
Somewhat unfavourable 22 13
Very unfavourable 14 8
No opinion 7 5

Pakistan 2010 2009 2007
% % %
Very favourable 2 1 2
Somewhat favourable 13 7 17
Somewhat unfavourable 32 26 16
Very unfavourable 49 65 63
No opinion 3 1 1

Now as to validity of data, often in my handling research agencies, and in seeing NGO's work in different countries, I have come across cases of data being extrapolated by arm chair researchers. More so in troubled regions and on politically sensitive places- BD, Lanka, Nepal, everywhere I have come across cases like this.

But leave aside that, let's consider the possibility of the survey being carried out totally in Kabul. The Daro speaking, Pashto south will be different. The North will be different. Isn't it obvious that different regions have different opinions. If we are to take an example, would you say that India is xenophobic based on reading Raj Thackeray's comments in a Mumbai tabloid?

Tell me what do you think?