Indus Water Treaty

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arun
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 02 Oct 2014 09:19

Pakistan's water rights: Senate panel wants ex-Indus water commissioner arrested

By Zahid Gishkori

Published: October 1, 2014 ISLAMABAD:
Urging the government to discuss water rights issue with India, the Senate standing committee on Cabinet Secretariat has sought the immediate arrest of former Indus water commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah for not protecting Pakistan’s water rights.

The Senate committee, while discussing issues relating to floods, and rehabilitation of earthquake victims on Wednesday, said Shah was reponsible for the country’s water woes.

“The government should have arrested Jamaat Ali Shah. He is the man behind Pakistan’s waters woes,” accused panel chairperson Kalsoom Parveen.

Parveen added that India was constructing more dams in Indian held Kashmir in violation of the Indus Water Treaty and other international agreements between the two countries.

Shah was removed from office in 2010 after being accused of not protecting the country’s water rights as he allegedly did not pursue the case put forward by Pakistan against the construction of the Kishenganga dam by India on the Neelam River.

The Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) had registered a case against Shah for allegedly acting as an agent of India by allowing it to build the Nimoo Bazgo Dam. However, he had left for Canada by then.

According to sources, the FIA and Pakistan’s intelligence agencies believed Shah acted maliciously to allow India a ‘free hand’ to build the 57-metre high hydropower project in Leh district, which some believe caused great damage to the water interests of the country.

The federal government is reportedly in contact with Interpol for repatriation of Shah from Canada. …………………….


From here:

Pakistan's water rights: Senate panel wants ex-Indus water commissioner arrested

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 02 Oct 2014 09:51

arun wrote:From about a fortnight back. Do not recollect seeing it on BRF so posting:

Nationalism, In Spate : Did India cause the floods and other disasters?


They should back up a bit.

shitistan was born because of India.

We are forever responsible for all of their problems.

We should pass a resolution in the Indian parliament taking full responsibility and be done with it once and for all.

It should save them from the daily tedium of making piecemeal accusations and stop diverting their attention from their national pastime of green on green attacks.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 02 Oct 2014 10:35

The case against the Pakistani Indus Commissioner(s) flares up every now and then depending upon the amount of frothing at the mouth corners of the rage boys.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby saip » 03 Oct 2014 09:18

Sound bytes: ‘Scrapping the water treaty is no solution’

Even the new commissioner seems to face the same problem. He is not blaming India for the floods. Is he in trouble too?

Link

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chaanakya » 03 Oct 2014 10:39

Pakistan does not give importance to Bilateral agreements which they themselves signed then there is no reason for India to give much importance to another treaty signed by them as well. Recently Pakistan has trashed references to Shimla Agreement and LaWhore or Agra declaration. They don't place much sanctity to their signature on a a piece of paper. IWT has served its purpose but mainly benefited Bakis notwithstanding the fact that India is upper riparian state. Now it is time to question IWT when they question Shimla agreement which also do not have any exit clause.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Oct 2014 10:42

saip wrote:Sound bytes: ‘Scrapping the water treaty is no solution’

Even the new commissioner seems to face the same problem. He is not blaming India for the floods. Is he in trouble too?

Link


Good Pakis have started on the right note, next they must debate and agree that such a treaty is Unislamic and withdraw from it.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Shrinivasan » 03 Oct 2014 13:07

Aditya_V wrote:
saip wrote:Sound bytes: ‘Scrapping the water treaty is no solution’

Even the new commissioner seems to face the same problem. He is not blaming India for the floods. Is he in trouble too?

Link


Good Pakis have started on the right note, next they must debate and agree that such a treaty is Unislamic and withdraw from it.
I hope and pray Pakees scrap the IWT, desh can then build dams on all west flowing rivers in J&K, Punjab, Himachal... We can build canals to move their water to other states and more importantly generate more power...

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vikas » 03 Oct 2014 22:44

SSridhar ji, Just wondering what could be potential benefit to Pakistan in withdrawing from IWT since they keep wailing about it and keep calling rivers in India as Pakistani Rivers ? They obviously wont get to sign another treaty with India in few months or years or possibly decades and the treaty could come once all the dams are constructed.

Moreover can they withdraw from this treaty voluntarily assuming some mad mullah gets anointed as PM of Pakistan.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby anupmisra » 04 Oct 2014 02:39

VikasRaina wrote:SSridhar ji, Just wondering what could be potential benefit to Pakistan in withdrawing from IWT since they keep wailing about it and keep calling rivers in India as Pakistani Rivers ?


If there is no bilateral treaty, then every dam or barrage India builds on any river that flows into Pakistan (as a down river state) will be subject to scrutiny and potential reprimand under Helsinki Rules. There is no real value to the pakis in that course either except the nuisance value that they hope to create. But that's what they do. However, their "experts" think they will be better off without the IWT.

The Helsinki Rules on the Uses of the Waters of International Rivers

Applicable to all drainage basins that cross national boundaries, except where other agreement between bordering nations exists, the Helsinki Rules assert the rights of all bordering nations to an equitable share in the water resources, with reasonable consideration of such factors as past customary usages of the resource and balancing variant needs and demands of the bordering nations. It also mandates protection of the resource by bordering nations with respect to water pollution in Chapter 3 (Articles IX to XI) and sets forth recommendations for resolving disputes over usage of such watercourses.


The pakis, under this Helsinki rule, can potentially claim access to aquifers in India.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby saip » 04 Oct 2014 03:06

The Helsinki rules were replaced by the Berlin Rules

Berlin Rules

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vipul » 04 Oct 2014 04:02

The Helsinki rules mentions "reasonable consideration of such factors as past customary usages of the resource and balancing variant needs and demands of the bordering nations" Shitistani's will be royally screwed on this point alone if they try to take recourse to the Helsinki treaty after withdrawing from IWT.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Victor » 04 Oct 2014 19:32

Do the Helsinki (or Berlin, Paris, London..) rules apply to China's dams on Brahmaputra?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vikas » 04 Oct 2014 23:42

..and why do Helsinki rule (or Berlin) apply to India and why should India abide by them ?

and if what you say is what it means and India too abides by them, then would not Pakis be better off withdrawing from IWT and hence having indirect right over all the rivers flowing into Pakistan.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby saip » 05 Oct 2014 00:09

I dont think the rules are enforceable. But they being there can be used by Pakis to beat up India just like it uses the UNO resolutions still.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 05 Oct 2014 05:43

VikasRaina wrote:SSridhar ji, Just wondering what could be potential benefit to Pakistan in withdrawing from IWT since they keep wailing about it and keep calling rivers in India as Pakistani Rivers ? They obviously wont get to sign another treaty with India in few months or years or possibly decades and the treaty could come once all the dams are constructed.

VikasRaina, my reading of the so-called Pakistani threat to withdraw from IWT is as follows: The reason why India was content to keep just 30 MAF for itself while giving away 120 MAF to Pakistan was because of topography, inability to build large storage dams and divert waters to agricultural regions on the 'western' three rivers. These still hold. If one looks at the history leading to the signing of the IWT, Pakistan took a maximalist position initially and wanted India to get only half of what India finally got. However, the initial Indian position was quite close to the final settlement. It is very clear that Indian negotiators (Shri Gulati et al) went by practical aspects and with a desire to sign a workable agreement while the Pakistani approach was to deny India as much as possible. So, Pakistan is secure in its thought that India cannot do it any harm even if it withdraws from the IWT. So, a few months or years or a decade of IWT being absent may still not do it any harm unless India behaves like China and wholesale diverts a river through a massive engineering feat. Pakistan knows that a democratic India where people like MSA and others are vociferous, would not do anything like that. It knows that India would only build, at the most, a series of hydroelectric plants which would not adversely affect its water flow. It still raises a hue and cry about these projects as it gives it an opportunity to maintain a sense of 'enduring hostility' among its people towards India, paint India as a villain to the world community, give the jihadists an excuse to attack India, expand the envelope of 'root causes' of Indo-Pakistan conflict, call for arbitration at the drop of a hat hoping that it would receicve some more concessions (as the CoA did recently) at every such arbitration even as it has nothing to lose etc. The point is that with or without the IWT, Pakistan still expects to get all the waters that it is getting and so IWT is only an instrument to poke Indian eyes with. That is the Pakistani logic.

Moreover can they withdraw from this treaty voluntarily assuming some mad mullah gets anointed as PM of Pakistan.

There is no provision for voluntary withdrawal of one party alone in the IWT. But, what can anyone do if Pakistan chooses to withdraw from the IWT? After all, it is a lower riparian state and its withdrawal is inconsequential.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vikas » 05 Oct 2014 13:45

Thanks for the details explanation SSridhar ji.
saip: I wonder if anyone would care about Paki rants in few years if India becomes 3rd largest economy while Pakis become home of the ISIS v2.0.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby symontk » 06 Oct 2014 09:42

Added to that, Pakistan ensured that they got the entire Indus river out flow from India. Indus contributed to 90% of entire waterflow in the Indus system at that time. However due to various factors, the Indus flow has now reduced percentage wise to 30-40%

Read the agreement to understand the details

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby member_28797 » 06 Oct 2014 21:36

arun wrote:From about a fortnight back. Do not recollect seeing it on BRF so posting:

Nationalism, In Spate : Did India cause the floods and other disasters?


If Indians were that nationalistic we would have nuked their shitland of a country a long time ago. They need to keep their head down and go low on conspiracy theories

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 06 Oct 2014 23:49

India will engulf every single drop of Pakistan Water - Allah bachaye ye mulk :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBam4Avtkcc

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 09 Oct 2014 10:01

X Posted from the “India – US Relations” thread.

Foreign investment by any country or any multilateral entity in a project located in Islamic Republic of Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir is to be strongly dissuaded. Our Ministry of External Affairs must summon US Embassy and present a demarche to this effect.

If the US insists she wants to play Dhimmi and pay Jaziya to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for building dams to sate Pakistan Occupied Punjab Provinces water gluttony, notwithstanding Pakistan’s perfidy that has resulted in the loss of many American lives, let it be in areas not under the Islamic Republic’s illegal occupation:

Energy woes: US pledges support for Diamer-Bhasha dam

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 16 Dec 2014 23:25

In jeopardy: Neelum Jhelum plant faces $475m funding black hole

ISLAMABAD: Despite the government’s promise to complete the 969-megawatt plant in the next two years as part of its strategy to end load-shedding ahead of next general elections, the Neelum Jhelum hydropower project still faces a $475-million financing gap, threatening its timely execution.

“It is very unfortunate that there is no financial close and the project is still facing a financing gap,” said Water and Power Development Authority Chairman Zafar Mahmood in a testimony to the National Assembly Standing Committee on Planning and Development.

Mahmood was called by the parliamentary body on Monday to give a briefing about the present status of the project.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has promised to bring an end to power outages before the next general elections. The situation remains the same for the last one and half year. Even in winters, the urban areas are subject to eight hours a day of load-shedding, while in small towns, power outages are more frequent. The government has shut down many inefficient power plants to save cost on account of subsidies.

The new secretary in-charge of the Ministry of Water and Power, Younus Dhaga, in line with the PM, said that he would end load-shedding by December 2016. His plan included an additional 5,000MW – included with the 969MW from the NJ project.

According to Mahmood, various options are being explored to address the financial woes of the project.

He said negotiations with the Export-Import Bank of China were going on for an additional inflow of $200 million. The bank has already provided a $448-million loan for the scheme.

In the PPP government, China had delayed signing the $448-million loan accord for the Neelum Jhelum project despite completion of all the necessary work done for Beijing’s approval. At that time, it had also turned down a request for an additional loan of $97.2 million for the same project.

Mahmood said negotiations for a $32-million loan from the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development would take place this week. He said talks with the United States Agency for International Development and the World Bank for getting finances were also under way.

The cost of inefficiency

Approved at Rs85 billion, the cost of the project has swelled to Rs275 billion due to a change in project design, alleged involvement of kickbacks in procurement of tunnel-boring machines and delay in work. The revised cost had been approved by the Executive Committee of National Economic Council in July last year.

Though the project commenced in January 2008, so far only 78% of the total work has been completed, while Rs135.4 billion have been spent on the ground.

The Ministry of Water and Power officials blame former Wapda chairman Shakil Durrani and the Neelum Jhelum Hydropower Company management for misreporting facts. Before the start of work, both of them had assured the previous government that the entire foreign funding had been arranged and lenders were just waiting for the project’s approval.

The contract for the project was awarded to a Chinese firm during the Musharraf government without a firm financing commitment.

Mahmood told the committee that a plan costing $68 million was made for early completion of the project by completing the first 242MW unit by the end of next year. He said the plan was rejected by the government due to its cost.

The Ministry of Water and Power has now proposed a plan where [b]the contractor could be incentivised by making him a partner in profit earned from electricity generation for the period it is completed ahead of the schedule,
said Mahmood.

The standing committee chief, Abdul Majid Khan Khail, urged the government to arrange finances at the earliest aimed to ensure the scheme can finally be completed.

The CEO of the NJ Company told the committee that the transmission scheme for dispersal of power from Neelum-Jhelum hydropower project was also facing problems. There were problems in determination of route for the transmission lines, he added. The land owners were demanding exorbitantly higher rates for crop compensation.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 24 Dec 2014 21:46

Chinese engineer among four killed in Neelum-Jhelum dam accident
MUZAFFARABAD: Four people including a Chinese engineer were killed Wednesday when a wall collapsed at a construction site for a major dam project in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, officials said.

The accident happened at the Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower project intake site 40 kilometres (25 miles) north of Muzaffarabad, the capital of the Pakistan-administered part of the disputed Himalayan territory.

“Four workers including a Chinese engineer were killed when a wall collapsed,” Sayed Asif Gardezi, a local administration official, told AFP.

He said a Chinese engineer and two other Pakistani workers were injured but they were out of danger. The incident was confirmed by local rescue officials.

China is one of Pakistan's main allies and there are thousands of Chinese engineers and other workers in Pakistan helping on infrastructure projects including nuclear power plants, dams and roads.

Last month Beijing promised Islamabad investment worth $42 billion over the coming years, much of it focused on the energy sector where Pakistan suffers chronic and economically damaging shortages. Industrial safety standards in Pakistan are poor and fatal accidents are common.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 10 Feb 2015 03:12

Check why Indian Water Policy is much powerful than any nuclear bomb
IWTr was the 2nd partition and now Hamdulillah India will draw the ground water too. 8)


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 13 Feb 2015 07:45

Google earth images of the Dam site on the Neelum River. Note the design of the Dam. Chinese engineers and material.
Image

tunneling work just north of the Jhelum by the Chinese
Image

Image

Powerhouse Site further downstream on the Jhelum
Image
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 13 Feb 2015 07:47

X post from the STFUP thread:
So Pakistan is again going to the Interntional Court of Arbitration about the Kishanganga and now about the Ratle dam on the Chenab.
Dunno how new or old this news is, but the thing to note is the change in the language used by Pakistan's vernacular reporters here.

They describe the rivers in Jammu and Kashmir as "Pakistan ki milkiyat" (Pakitan's property) LOL


A cursory look at the sat images shows that the Pakistani dam being built by the chinese on the Neelum R (Kishanganga R downstream) as part of the Neelum-Jhelum is progressing on. The pakistanis have built sluice gates on the dam, after opposing that in Indian dams.
The chinese are still building the tunnels proximal to the dam to link it to the Jhelum.
Tunneling work can be seen on google earth images.

I had posted the plans, dam site locations, tunnel locations, powerhouse locations on the Indus water treaty page, a few yrs ago.
On the Indian site, one can see excavation at the Kishanganga dam site, while India's tunnel is complete. India's project is the Kishenganga-Tulbul navigation project.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 13 Feb 2015 07:50

Delaying tactics by the Pakistanis, if they're planning to go to court again. Most likely they will want to get a stay order on Indian construction while the chinese speedily construct the dam and the tunnel for them.

I also see construction at the proposed power house site, further downstream of the Jhelum now.
THAT powerhouse construction with all the turbines will be a very expensive construction - dunno if the Pakistanis have the money lined up for that part...

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 13 Feb 2015 17:49

Long Article - very, very Intresting and Breathtaking - So posting in full. - X Posdted on IWT Thread

Pakistan braces for a water crisis

ISLAMABAD: Energy-starved Pakistanis, their economy battered by chronic fuel and electricity shortages, may soon have to contend with a new resource crisis: major water shortages, the Pakistani government warned this week.

A combination of global climate change and local waste and mismanagement have led to an alarmingly rapid depletion of Pakistan's water supply, said the minister for water and energy, Khawaja Muhammad Asif.

"Under the present situation, in the next six to seven years, Pakistan can be a water-starved country," Mr. Asif said in an interview, echoing a warning that he first issued at a news conference in Lahore this week.

The prospect of a major water crisis in Pakistan, even if several years distant, offers a stark reminder of a growing challenge in other poor and densely populated countries that are vulnerable to global climate change.

In Pakistan, it poses a further challenge to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, whose government has come under sharp criticism for failing to end the country's electricity crisis. In some rural areas, heavy rationing has meant that as little as four hours of electricity a day is available.

In the interview, Mr. Asif said the government had started to bring the electricity crisis under control, and predicted a return to a normal supply by 2017. But energy experts are less confident that such a turnaround is possible, given how long and complex the problem has proved to be.

Now the country's water supply looms as a resource challenge, intensified by Pakistan's enduring infrastructure and management problems.

Agriculture is a cornerstone of the Pakistani economy. The 2,000-mile-long Indus River, which rises in the Himalayas and spans the country, feeds a vast network of irrigation canals that line fields producing wheat, vegetables and cotton, all major sources of foreign currency. In the north, hydroelectric power stations are a cornerstone of the creaking power system.

A combination of melting glaciers, decreasing rainfall and chronic mismanagement by successive governments has put that water supply in danger, experts say.

In a report published in 2013, the Asian Development Bank described Pakistan as one of the most "water-stressed" countries in the world, with a water availability of 1,000 cubic meters per person per year — a fivefold drop since independence in 1947, and about the same level as drought-stricken Ethiopia.

"It is a very serious situation,"
said Pervaiz Amir, country director for the Pakistan Water Partnership. "I feel it is going to be more serious than the recent oil shortages."

Shortages of resources have climbed to the top of the political agenda in recent years. Fuel shortages last month, for which government officials blamed mismanagement by the national oil company, caused lengthy lines outside fuel stations that embarrassed the government at a time of low global oil prices.

Mr. Sharif's government was already grappling with the seemingly intractable electricity crisis, which regularly causes blackouts of 10 hours a day even in major cities. And Mr. Sharif has been visibly distracted by grueling political duels, with the opposition politician Imran Khan, who accuses him of stealing the 2013 election, and with powerful military leaders who have undermined his authority in key areas.

Mr. Asif, the water and energy minister, said the government had started to turn the corner. But he acknowledged that the country's resource problems were, to a large degree, endemic. "There is a national habit of extravagance," he said, noting that it extended across resource areas, whether gas, electricity or water.

"I will be very careful not to use the word 'drought,' but we are water stressed right now, and slowly, we are moving to be a water-starved country," he said.

Evidence of chronic water shortages have been painfully evident in some parts of Pakistan in recent years. A drought caused by erratic rainfall in Tharparkar, a desert area in southern Sindh Province, caused a humanitarian emergency in the region last year.

"The frequency of monsoon rains has decreased but their intensity has increased," said Mr. Amir of the Pakistan Water Partnership. "That means more water stress, particularly in winters."Therefore the Phloods

Water is also tied to nationalist, even jihadist, politics in Pakistan. For years, religious conservatives and Islamist militants have accused rival India, where the Indus River system rises, of constricting Pakistan's water supply.

Hafiz Saeed, the leader of the militant group that carried out the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India, Lashkar-e-Taiba, regularly rails against Indian "water terrorism" during public rallies.

Mr. Asif said that contrary to such claims, India was not building reservoirs on rivers that flow into Pakistan. "We will never let it happen," he said, citing the Indus Water Treaty, an agreement between the two countries that was brokered by the World Bank and signed in the 1960s.

One major culprit in Pakistan's looming water crisis, experts say, is the country's inadequate water storage facilities. In India, about one-third of the water supply is stored in reservoirs, compared with just 9 percent in Pakistan, Amir said.

"We built our last dam 46 years ago," he said. "India has built 4,000 dams, with another 150 in the pipeline."

Experts say the country's chaotic policies are hurting its image in the eyes of Western donorswho could help alleviate the mounting resource crises.

"The biggest looming crisis is of governance, not water — which could make this country unlivable in the next few years," said Arshad H. Abbasi, a water and energy expert with the Sustainable Development and Policy Institute, a research group based in Islamabad.

Pakists say : We are not like you Evil Indian Hindus who have a bath in the moooooorning and then in the evennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning. We Pakistanis bathe Dur Rooz Jumay Kay Jumay - Every Day on Friday, Every Day on Friday, Every Day on Friday.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby vishvak » 13 Feb 2015 21:05

"We built our last dam 46 years ago,"

This should be saved for the record, as building a dam is not simple and consists of various steps by itself.

No wonder pakis are at stage of 'stealing water from electricity' - for accusing. Next will be 'India stealing electrons from power plant' if there is some progress on building a dam somewhere.

Not to forget antics of political leaders. Controversies of Raja rental, who became PM for 10 months, is on the interwebs. link
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby KLNMurthy » 13 Feb 2015 22:07

arun wrote:X Posted from the “India – US Relations” thread.

Foreign investment by any country or any multilateral entity in a project located in Islamic Republic of Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir is to be strongly dissuaded. Our Ministry of External Affairs must summon US Embassy and present a demarche to this effect.

If the US insists she wants to play Dhimmi and pay Jaziya to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for building dams to sate Pakistan Occupied Punjab Provinces water gluttony, notwithstanding Pakistan’s perfidy that has resulted in the loss of many American lives, let it be in areas not under the Islamic Republic’s illegal occupation:

Energy woes: US pledges support for Diamer-Bhasha dam


It is a typical paki headline and spin. Even the body of the article doesn't say the US is giving a single dime for this dam. Rajiv Shah of USAID only made positive noises about the dam being a good investment.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 14 Feb 2015 05:47

In the BRM article on IWT ten years ago, this was the conclusion:

Today, Pakistan is one of the severest water-stressed countries in the world, its water resources having fallen from 5300 Cu. M. per head per annum in 1951 to ~ 1100 Cu. M. today, much less than the internationally accepted 1500 Cu. M. and precariously close to the critical 1000 Cu. M mark. The fact that its two large reservoirs are losing storage, the flows in the Indus River System are declining, the inter-provincial water accord has become elusive and contentious due to mutual suspicions among provinces, the water requirements are growing due to a population growth rate of ~ 2% are signs that do not bode well for Pakistan’s water situation. Added to these are the disagreement on construction of new reservoirs, the declining groundwater potential (Balochistan’s aquifers will dry up by 2020), the growing signs of disputes with the upper riparian India after a relatively uneventful period of 44 years of water sharing, and the disharmony in inter-provincial relationship especially between Sind and Punjab dating back to more than a century. The water situation in Pakistan, a country which is largely arid or semi-arid, is truly disastrous in spite of the Indus, its tributaries and a generous treaty which has been implemented faithfully by the upper riparian India so far in spite of grave provocations. Pakistan may be forced to change its crops and sowing patterns and employ drip and sprinkler irrigation along with high-yielding and early-maturing crops in the coming years due to the worsening situation. Its frivolous objections to Indian projects and a general unwillingness to engage India constructively are partly to force India to amend the IWT to accommodate the emerging patterns of water use in Pakistan, such as water sharing during periods of shortage, a situation not envisaged in the Treaty

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 14 Feb 2015 13:10

Ssridhar, what does IWT say about use of ground water? i mean can we make borewells to pump goundwater and transport it elsewhere?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 14 Feb 2015 13:31

AFAIK, it says nothing.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby negi » 21 Feb 2015 13:27

"Today, Pakistan is one of the severest water-stressed countries in the world, its water resources having fallen from 5300 Cu. M. per head per annum in 1951 to ~ 1100 Cu. M. today, much less than the internationally accepted 1500 Cu. M. and precariously close to the critical 1000 Cu. M mark."

Inshah Allah I pray that it falls below 500 Cu. M. asap, tab ladke liya tha Pakistan ab dekhenge sala kaise jaoge Pakistan .

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 28 Feb 2015 00:37

Kuwait to give $32m loan for Neelum-Jhelum project

ISLAMABAD: Kuwait would provide an additional loan of $32 million for Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Project under an agreement signed on Thursday.

Secretary Economic Affairs Division (EAD) Saleem Sethi and Deputy Director General Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development (KFED) Hamad Al-Omar signed the agreement on behalf of their respective governments.

Finance Minister Ishaq Dar and Kuwait Ambassador Nawaf Abdul Aziz Alenezi were also present.

Kuwait has already been co-financing this project with an amount of $42m. The 969MW project has a total cost of Rs274 billion with a planned foreign funding of $1.585bn.

An amount of $1.11bn has been committed by various donors including Islamic Dev­e­lopment Bank (IDB), Saudi Fund, Opec Fund, Kuwait Fund and China Exim Bank.

Dar welcomed signing of the agreement, saying it was another chapter in Pakistan-Kuwait economic cooperation.
Cheers Image

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 28 Feb 2015 17:12

Link
To another question, Chairman Senate referred a matter regarding Ex Indus Water Commissioner Syed Jammat Ali Shah, who was exonerated from the charges in the inquiry conducted against him. Senator Sughra Imam asked first the commissioner was declared guilty but later he was exonerated from the charges. State Minister for Water and Power Abid Sher Ali unable to satisfy the senators questions and the chairman Senate referred the matter to concerned standing committee on water and power to probe the case and report the Senate.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby K Mehta » 20 Mar 2015 15:49

x-posting

As of now bakistan has less than 2.1% of total area as forest, with most of the forest area in NWFP and POK especially GB.
From world bank 2012 data http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.FRST.ZS

From FAO website 2005 data
http://www.fao.org/forestry/country/57478/en/pak/
Pakistan has very low forest cover. Natural forests represent just over 3 percent of the total land area, but their community and species diversity reflects the country's great physiographic and climatic contrasts. Pakistan's forest and woodland types include: littoral and swamp forests; tropical dry deciduous forests; tropical thorn forests; sub-tropical broad-leaved evergreen forests; sub-tropical pine forests; Himalayan moist temperate forests; Himalayan dry temperate forests; sub-alpine forests; and alpine scrub. Coniferous forests predominate. The North West Frontier Province contains approximately 40 percent of the forests in Pakistan.

Woodfuels are very important in Pakistan. Around 90 percent of Pakistan's wood production is used as fuel, and almost 80 percent of households use wood for cooking.



From here http://rainforests.mongabay.com/deforestation/archive/Pakistan.htm
Wood removal 2005
Industrial roundwood (1000 cubic m) 2,301
Wood fuel (1000 cubic m) 31,603
Total wood removal 2005 (1000 cubic m) 33,904

More than 90% of wood removal is for fuel and in conditions like this year it would have been higher than earlier, due to lack of gas for heating and power.

Image
The above map from FAO shows that most of the forests are in POK and NWFP, this is also where there is maximum deforestation.
http://www.fao.org/forestry/country/18314/en/pak/


Till 2005 data from http://www.fao.org/forestry/country/32185/en/pak/

Code: Select all

FRA 2005 categories   Area (1000 hectares)
                1990          2000         2005
Forest        2,527         2,116        1,902


The rate has been ~40 K hectares deforestation/year, which means by now only ~1,500 K hectares would be left. In 25 years they have lost 40% or more of their forest cover and in 35-40 years they would have lost almost entire forest cover.

It is this kind of deforestation which is causing the floods happening in bakistan, it may also be responsible for the drought in Tharparkar. I am fairly certain that the floods in J&K were also due to such terrible deforestation rates. With economic mismanagement and lack of fuel and electricity for heating leading from it, the deforestation and floods would keep increasing. This would lead to further damage to economy and would lead to a cascade.

This is very similar to North Korea where similar deforestation and erosion of land have occurred. This fact should be highlighted everytime there is a debate on Indians causing the floods and rivers running dry.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby member_29040 » 08 Apr 2015 11:49

Leakages from Mangla Dam spillways..
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=260633

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 23 Apr 2015 12:25

X Posted from the “Water Issues in the Indian Subcontinent” thread.

Bloomberg citing “senior Chinese water resources official” reports that P.R. China is reluctant to finance the Diamer Bhasha dam which the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is seeking to put up on occupied Indian territory of Gilgit-Baltistan:

China is unlikely to fund Diamer Bhasha because it doesn’t want to get involved in a water dispute between India and Pakistan, said a senior Chinese water resources official, who declined to be identified because the information isn’t public.


Read it all at the below web link:

Even China Won’t Finance This Dam as Water Fight Looms

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vipul » 13 May 2015 03:12

Pakistan finalises case for international arbitration.

Pakistan has finalised its case against India over construction of 330MW Kishanganga Hydroelectric Project (KHEP) and 850MW Ratle Hydroelectric Plant (RHEP) in occupied Jammu & Kashmir, and is ready to put it for international arbitration.

The authorities however are yet to decide whether the case against the controversial projects should be put before neutral experts to be selected by mutual consent of two water commissioners or Hague-based permanent court of arbitration.

Indus Water Commissioner Mirza Asif Baig, talking to TheNation confirmed the case would ‘soon’ be filed for settlement.The Indus Water Commissioner of Pakistan has already declared that the talks on the said two projects with Indian Water Commissioner have failed to arrive at any conclusion.

Despite serious objections on the design, the Pakistani side however is so far willing to resume the talks on three other controversial projects which the neighbouring country is building on River Chenab in occupied valley. These are: 1,000MW Pakal Dul, 120MW Miyar and 48MW Lower Kalnai hydropower projects.

A government official mentioning India’s past record of being inflexible viewed that Pakistan at last would have to seek international arbitration on the rest of three projects too. The Pakistan commissioner has raised serious objections on the design of all these five projects and termed them a gross violation of Indus Water Treaty.

Kishanganga project is designed to divert water from the Kishanganga River to a power plant in the River Jhelum basin. It is located 5 km north of Bandipore in occupied Kashmir. India started construction on the project in 2007 and it is expected to be completed in 2016 while the work on Ratle project at River Chenab has also been started by India.

In 2010, Pakistan appealed to Hague’s court against the construction of KHEP and in February 2013, Hague ruled that India could divert a minimum of water for their project. The court gave its final award on December 20, 2013, wherein it allowed India to go ahead with the construction of the dam. The final award specifies that 9m3/s of natural flow of water must be maintained in Kishanganga River at all times to maintain the environment downstream.

“We have objection on the depth of spillways of the Kishanganga dam and other dams at the Chenab River, as India cannot do this under the Indus Water Treaty,” said sources.

India is violating the treaty and terms specified by the court’s verdict in the construction of the Kishanganga dam, and, therefore, Pakistan has decided to go for international arbitration on the dam and also on Ratle project, they added.
The officials sources believe the objections raised by Pakistan are logical in the light of the treaty and they are hopeful of winning the case against India.

They say: Apart from adverse impact to be caused by Kishanganga dam on Pakistan’s irrigation system and energy sector schemes, it would have devastating effect on biodiversity and ecosystem in Neelum Valley.The volume of water in the part of river on the India-held side is 10 times higher than that in Azad Jammu and Kashmir territory. Therefore, its diversion will wreck havoc on the environment of the valley.

Pakistan had been raising objections on Indian projects since they were started by the neighbouring country.However, India has no intention to remove Islamabad’s reservations by modifying the designs of the projects rather it finalised bidding of three power projects and work is in progress on the fourth one – Ratle Hydropower Project.

The Kishanganga project is almost complete.

India is using delaying tactics in talks with Pakistan as it had done during the construction of Baglihar Dam.Under the provisions of the Indus Water Treaty 1960, the waters of the eastern rivers, Sutlej, Beas and Ravi, had been allocated to India and the western rivers, Indus, Jhelum and Chenab, to Pakistan except for certain uses allowed to India which included generation of hydropower but without altering the water flow.

Some water experts in Pakistan believe that India has carved out a plan to generate 32,000MW electricity on the Pakistani rivers and will have the capacity to regulate the water flows that are destined to reach Pakistan.

It is being considered by them that the proposed projects of India would drastically impact the water flows in the Chenab which irrigates most of the land in Pakistani Punjab, the food basket of the country.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 13 May 2015 05:19

Vipul wrote:Pakistan finalises case for international arbitration.
The authorities however are yet to decide whether the case against the controversial projects should be put before neutral experts to be selected by mutual consent of two water commissioners or Hague-based permanent court of arbitration.

There is no The Hague-based permanent court of arbitration for water disputes based on IWT. The reporter is mixing up Court of Arbitration, a provision in the IWT, with the International Court of Justice in The Hague. As usual, it shows the Pakistani predilection for ICJ.

I believe that Pakistan will go for CoA.


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