Indus Water Treaty

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32227
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by chetak »

Barath wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:Can any gurus enlighten why India got into a seemingly unequal treaty? 25% water share with >80% population share? There must be more to it.
Wiki seems straightforward

Pakistan was insisting on historical right to all the waters of Indus tributaries. (the pre-partition distribution). Plus they were arguing that West Punjab would be desertified so they needed the water . On the flip side, India was the upper riparian state and thus had control of the waters. But de facto there was not much development projects on either side to actually use the water. India proposed partition of rivers with 3 eastern river being given to india and 3 western rivers beng given to Pakistan. The World bank essentially agreed to Indian proposal...

Because of long negotiation, India had large development projects for irrigation etc being held up.

The flow in the western rivers is more and thus the water 'share' is more. But India still gets to use/utilise those waters, but not to consume them up, except for domestic and limited agri use. To this day, India is still not using the share of that water fully. (though hopefully it will soon).

If you count population, then population of Pakistan that used these rivers will be huge compared to population that used the rivers in Indian control. Plus India is allowed to use water of 3 western rivers for domestic use , ie for local population.

Pakistan wanted to drag India to International court, ( where they would have likely used pe-partition distribution). India refused.
wiki has not touched upon the cashmere factor and the ameriki influence brought to bear to concede such outrageously and foolishly generous terms to the pakis.

cha cha che che had a hand in this as well. His innate ego was cleverly appealed to and off went most of India's share of the waters.

the guy was an unmitigated disaster.
ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4053
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by ArjunPandit »

https://www.samaa.tv/news/pakistan/2020 ... -pakistan/

India has stopped 14,000 cusecs of water flowing into Pakistan via River Chenab, officials at the Pakistani Ministry of Water Resources said Wednesday.

The flow of water in Chenab has been reduced to 18,000 cusecs, the officials said. It was at 31,800 cusecs on Tuesday.

Due to this, the rice crop is feared to be affected in areas stretching from Marala to Panjnad headworks in Punjab.

India has diverted this water to Baglihar and Ratle dams, the officials added
SRajesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2061
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SRajesh »

https://www.dawn.com/news/1573214/wb-sa ... er-dispute
WB now washing their hands Off the IWT???
this will create panic in Napak
??Will this be the next move by Modiji
And if it is : Modiji Tussi Great Ho!!!
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14331
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Aditya_V »

ArjunPandit wrote:https://www.samaa.tv/news/pakistan/2020 ... -pakistan/

India has stopped 14,000 cusecs of water flowing into Pakistan via River Chenab, officials at the Pakistani Ministry of Water Resources said Wednesday.

The flow of water in Chenab has been reduced to 18,000 cusecs, the officials said. It was at 31,800 cusecs on Tuesday.

Due to this, the rice crop is feared to be affected in areas stretching from Marala to Panjnad headworks in Punjab.

India has diverted this water to Baglihar and Ratle dams, the officials added
Pakistan should adandon Agriculture and go for full livestock and a meat only diet, Mango and other trees should be used as firewood.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Manish_P »

Aditya ji, but what will the livestock eat hain?

And please note that the future PM-in-Waiting, the Penile Pakjihadi from Pindi, recently said in an interview that he is ready to eat grass so as to give more moolah to the uniformed mullahs.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25085
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SSridhar »

The WB has taken the right decision by not taking a decision.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25085
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SSridhar »

Indus Water Treaty meeting: India suggests video conference, Pakistan insists on talks at Attari border - ToI
India has suggested to Pakistan that the talks for discussing pending issues under the Indus Water Treaty (IWT) be held through video-conferencing in view of the coronavirus pandemic, but Islamabad has been insisting that the parleys be conducted at the Attari check post {Good for us, let us keep delaying talks under one pretext or another} , sources said on Sunday.

In a letter last week, the Indus Commissioner of India told his Pakistani counterpart that it is not conducive to hold the meeting at the Attari Joint Check Post due to the pandemic.

On Pakistan's request, a meeting was scheduled in last week of March to discuss pending issues under the Indus Water Treaty. However, it was deferred due to current pandemic.

Considering the fact that it may take some time for the situation to normalise and international travel to resume, the Indian Commissioner, in the first week of July, proposed to hold the meeting through video conference or any alternative means, sources said.

In response, the Pakistan Commissioner, in his letter sent in last week of July, insisted on holding the conventional meeting at Attari Joint Check Post instead.

“The Indian Commissioner responded stating that the situation in India is still not conducive for travelling of his delegation and holding the meeting at Attari JCP as proposed by his counterpart and may take some time to allow such meeting at Attari JCP or New Delhi as desired by Pakistan,” a source said.

The Indian Commissioner also requested the Pakistan side to consider holding a virtual meeting as a viable option to discuss the pending and new issues, sources added.

They noted that even the diplomatic talks with other countries have been taking place through virtual meetings and the Indus meeting can take place in a similar manner.

Currently, one of the pending issues between the two sides is the disagreement over the Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectricity projects.

The Kishenganga project had been in operation since 2018 while work on Ratle stands abandoned since 2014 due to a contractual dispute between the Jammu and Kashmir government and the contractor.

After prolonged negotiations, India in 2016 sought appointment of a neutral expert to resolve this issue while Pakistan made a request for appointment of a Court of Arbitration (COA).

In November 2019, after a meeting of the Indian delegation headed by Jal Shakti Ministry Secretary with the World Bank to explore a way forward, it was agreed that the matter may be discussed by the two commissioners as per the Treaty provisions to decide the mode of resolution - by the CoA or a neutral expert.

The World Bank initially proceeded with both the process of appointment of a neutral expert and constituting the Court of Arbitration but later, in December 2016, it instituted a ‘pause' on both the processes to allow the two parties to bilaterally choose one option with the help of its good offices, sources said.

Under the Treaty, the World Bank only has a procedural role and there is no provision for the global financial institution to take an independent decision in this regard.

The pause is still continuing. In between two trilateral meetings at the secretary-level were held in Washington at World Bank office in August and September 2017 but the logjam persisted, the sources added.

After the November 2019 talks, the Indian Commissioner invited his Pakistani counterpart in February 2020 to hold the meeting of the Permanent Indus Commission.

The meeting was scheduled in March but had to be postponed due to the pandemic.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9097
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by nachiket »

Delaying is only good for us if we continue construction of the projects in the meantime. The foundation stone for the Ratle project was laid in 2013 but the actual construction only started in Dec 2019. I hope the construction is going on in full swing while we do this chai-biskoot with the pakis.
ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4053
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by ArjunPandit »

SSridhar wrote:The WB has taken the right decision by not taking a decision.
could this be pressure tactics by khan to bring paxis back in their camp
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32227
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by chetak »

nachiket wrote:Delaying is only good for us if we continue construction of the projects in the meantime. The foundation stone for the Ratle project was laid in 2013 but the actual construction only started in Dec 2019. I hope the construction is going on in full swing while we do this chai-biskoot with the pakis.
the pakis are desperate to resume political contacts with India and through that the cross border trade. They need medicines, fuel, vegetables and many other items of food stuff.

they are bleeding out after being hurt badly by the hans, saudis and their ummah pals

This is not about the IWT

If it were, video talks would have served the puropse.

they are looking to fool us again and we are slowly getting to that point where we are going to let them.

There is immense pressure from the US to resume talks with the pakis which bajwa desperately needs from India

they need the cross border trade to stop their paki scum population from revolting.
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Vips »

Government clears 8 hydropower projects on Indus in Ladakh.

The government has cleared eight hydropower projects of 144 MW on the Indus river and its tributaries in Ladakh, the highest so far, sources in the Jal Shakti Ministry said on Thursday.

At present, there are several small projects, with a collective capacity of 113 MW on Indus in Ladakh, and the new projects will have much more capacity than those constructed so far, a senior official added.

The official said the new projects have been cleared by the Central Water Commission as well as the Indus Commissioner after a separate Union Territory of Ladakh was announced last year. These projects will come up in Kargil and Leh districts of Ladakh.

Because of its topography, it is not feasible to construct big hydropower projects in the Ladakh region.

Durbuk Shyok (19 MW), Shankoo (18.5 MW), Nimu Chilling (24 MW), Rongdo (12 MW), Ratan Nag (10.5 MW) hydropower projects have been cleared for Leh, while Mangdum Sangra (19 MW), Kargil Hunderman (25 MW) and Tamasha (12 MW) have been cleared for Kargil, the official added.

Many of the existing projects as small as 1 MW of capacity.

The construction of the new projects will begin after other mandatory clearances are obtained, the official said. "The designs of these projects have been certified as compliant with the Indus Waters Treaty by the Central Water Commission. The information on the design of these projects is being provided to Pakistan as per the provisions of the treaty," the official said.

"The development of projects on the Indus river has been slow, especially in the Ladakh region. Only two major projects have been constructed so far - Chutak project of 44 MW on Suru, a tributary of the Indus, and Nimoo Bazgo of 45 MW on the Indus," the official said.

Under the Indus Waters Treaty between New Delhi and Islamabad, the usage of water of Indus and its five tributaries flowing from India to Pakistan have been divided.

The treaty specifies that waters of three eastern rivers namely Ravi, Beas and Sutlej, have been reserved for India while that of western rivers, namely Indus, Chenab and Jhelum, are for Pakistan.

However, India claims it has unrestricted rights to develop hydroelectric power projects on the western rivers within the specified parameters of design. Of the total 168 million acre-feet, India's share of water from Ravi, Beas and Sutlej is 33 mcf, which is nearly 20%. :evil: (A S S H O L E Nehru)

India uses nearly 93-94% of its share under the Indus Water Treaty. The rest of the water remains unutilised and goes to Pakistan. The efforts to tap that water through a number of projects like Ujh Multipurpose project, Shahpurkandi Dam project and the second Ravi Beas Link are being made, the official added.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32227
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by chetak »

India, Pak water commissioners to meet in Delhi after more than two years. India's water Commissioner Pradeep Saxena says, "We are committed towards full utilisation of India’s rights under the Treaty"
via@sidhant
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14331
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Aditya_V »

Pakistan must deem this treaty as unfair and withdraw from it and then threaten India that the PAF will bomb Delhi if India does not comply.
RajaRudra
BRFite
Posts: 344
Joined: 17 Sep 2019 14:13

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by RajaRudra »

Aditya_V wrote:Pakistan must deem this treaty as unfair and withdraw from it and then threaten India that the PAF will bomb Delhi if India does not comply.
Even the tactically brilliant and strategically stupid pakistan will not try that :) :wink:
Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 462
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Malayappan »

Power Minister inaugurates diversion of Marusudar River at Pakal Dul HE Project (1000 MW) in J&K
Pakal Dul HE Project (1000 MW) is being constructed by Chenab Valley Power Projects [P] Ltd. a joint venture company of NHPC Ltd (Govt of India Enterprise) and JKSPDC (Govt of J&K Enterprise). CVPPPL has been entrusted 3094 MW Hydro Power Projects for construction in J&K. Marusudar River is a major tributary of Chenab River. Diversion of River will pave the way for acceleration in construction activities of the Project.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by g.sarkar »

RajaRudra wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Pakistan must deem this treaty as unfair and withdraw from it and then threaten India that the PAF will bomb Delhi if India does not comply.
Even the tactically brilliant and strategically stupid pakistan will not try that :) :wink:
You will underestimate Captain Dimran Khan Niazi and Pinki Peerni at your peril.
Gautam
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25085
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan Objects
Pakistan also criticised the laying of foundation stones for the construction of the Rattle and Kwar Hydroelectric Projects (HEP) on the Chenab River in Kashmir.

"The construction of Rattle hydroelectric plant, as designed by India, has been disputed by Pakistan, and for Kwar Hydroelectric Plant India has so far not fulfilled its Treaty obligation of sharing information with Pakistan," the FO said.

"Pakistan views such laying of foundation stones of the two projects by the Indian Prime Minister as a direct contravention of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) of 1960," the Foreign Office said.

Pakistan calls upon India to fulfil its obligations under the IWT and refrain from taking any such steps which are detrimental to the IWT framework, it said.

Pakistan would continue to extend all possible support to the Kashmiris in their just struggle for the right to self-determination, said the FO.
Malayappan
BRFite
Posts: 462
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 00:11

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Malayappan »

Pakistan, India to discuss hydropower projects during talks tomorrow
A five-member delegation of Pakistan approved by Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif will visit New Delhi on Monday, with the two sides likely to discuss key projects as part of the Indus Water Treaty.
During the meeting, both sides would deliberate on the issue of advance flood information and the annual report of the Permanent Commission of Indus Waters (PCIW).
The two sides are also expected to deliberate on 1,000 MW Pakal Dul under Article IX of the Indus Waters Treaty, 48 MW Lower Kalnai and 624 MW Kiru project hydropower projects being built by India on the west flowing rivers.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.dawn.com/news/1693231/health-of-the-indus
Health of the Indus
Zofeen T. Ebrahim, June 5, 2022

THE Indus is dying, and it is dying downstream Sukkur, was the unanimous verdict of filmmaker Wajahat Malik and his five friends after traversing the once mighty river on a raft.
To get first-hand knowledge of the health of the river, the six adventurers started off on March 30 and were given a warm send-off by the locals at Hamzigond in Gilgit-Baltistan’s Kharmang district. They covered an estimated 2,300 kilometres of the entire 3,180 km length of this transboundary river on a raft over 45 days. They reached Kharo Chan in the delta, where the Indus meets the Arabian Sea, turned west and ended their journey at Karachi’s Marina Club.
Theirs was an odd group: three paraglider pilots, one of whom is a karate champion, two white water rafters and one ace swimmer, who could double as a rescuer in case someone fell into the sometimes raging waters — or so they thought. The team had second-hand wet suits (these barely protected them from the frigid glacial waters in the north for more than a minute if anyone fell into the river) helmets, life jackets and a sturdy raft. They could have gone with better gear, but had limited resources.
Though this was not a high-performance, data-intensive computing mission undertaken by environmental field researchers, scientists or anthropologists using state-of-the-art equipment, the six were nevertheless able to see a kaleidoscope of images of the ecological, environmental and socioeconomic devastation of Pakistan’s lifeline wrought by climate transitions, as they slowly moved south.
They witnessed, and were able to film, the impact of both water shortage, as well as the poor quality of what little was available, on the lives and livelihoods of people living along the river. The reckless dumping of poisonous effluent into the river by factories, hotels and restaurants were some ‘disturbing’ images that were etched on their minds and captured by their cameras.
Whichever town they neared, they would be greeted by islands of floating trash. The flotsam included plastic, bottles and in particular, styrofoam. Little wonder studies say that the Indus contributes 164,332 tonnes of plastic waste (that enters the sea) annually and is the second most plastic-polluted river in the world. The first, third and fourth polluted rivers in this category are in China.
But what was most vividly witnessed was the interaction of local people with natural systems, and the resilience of both against manmade climate-induced disturbances and the realisation how critical this was to understanding the river’s ailments.
......
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.dawn.com/news/1693184
Indus annually delivers 10,000 tonnes of macro-plastics to Arabian Sea: WB
Amin Ahmed, June 5, 2022

ISLAMABAD: The River Indus delivers around 10,000 tonnes of macro-plastics to the Arabian Sea each year, according to a World Bank survey made available on Saturday.
The survey, titled ‘Plastic Waste: A Journey Down the Indus River Basin in Pakistan’, is a first-of-its-kind field study undertaken along the Indus river basin to quantify the amount of waste, particularly plastics, leaking into the river system.
It warned that the perennial presence of plastic waste in the Indus and its tributaries is a recent addition to the already extensive list of threats to water quality, ecological health, and environmental sustainability in Pakistan.
Nine sampling sites were selected for the study based on multiple criteria including geographical location, population dependent on the river, tourism or industrial activity, and trans-boundary importance. Sites were selected along the tributaries of the river as well as on the Indus itself, encompassing the entire river basin.
The field survey was conducted across nine locations along the Indus river and its tributaries, spanning 2,032 kilometres.
......
Gautam
Whenever I am disappointed and discouraged, I read Dawn for positivity in my life. Dawn has never let me down, Alhamdulillah.
Last edited by g.sarkar on 06 Jun 2022 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25085
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SSridhar »

g.sarkar wrote:Whenever I am disappointed and discouraged, I read Dawn for positivity in my life. Dawn has never let me down, Alhamdulillah.
Gautam, :D
Though, of course, it makes for sad reading that so much of plastic from the Indus pollutes the 'Global Commons'.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by g.sarkar »

Thanks, Sridhar Sirji.
I am also sure the plastic pollution from a more industrial India is worse. It will bite us and our children in the backside for sure in the near future.
Gautam
S_Madhukar
BRFite
Posts: 513
Joined: 27 Mar 2019 18:15

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by S_Madhukar »

So basically we can’t even eat fish from the Arabian Sea in a few decades time. That country is a large f** parasite not paradise ! I can only imagine what all flows into the sea from their rear ends. Even Covid-19 did not do a good job there. We have to somehow reduce the population there, else we are doomed
Lisa
BRFite
Posts: 1714
Joined: 04 May 2008 11:25

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Lisa »

Indus Waters Treaty | World Bank appoints neutral expert, chairman of Court of Arbitration

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

Would the powers that be comment, please.
S_Madhukar
BRFite
Posts: 513
Joined: 27 Mar 2019 18:15

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by S_Madhukar »

So after all the grass is eaten there will be enough plastic to graze on... quom will survive!
May be we should dam the Indus more, let it become a swamp in Baxtan and spare the sea!
I am sure with climate change Sindhu-mata might find a way to flow more in India :P
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25085
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by SSridhar »

It is a joke to appoint a NE & CoA simultaneously for the same issue(s). This whole IWT has become a tool for Pakistan to waste India's energies & effort through frivolous and repeated objections. An obsessed TSP wants to blacken at least one Indian eye even if it goes blind in both its eyes as a result. India must do a Indo-China Sea (some call it South China Sea) on IWT. That time has come.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32227
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^

from the net >> @ThePollLady


Image


MEA has reacted by saying

• We have noted the World Bank’s announcement to concurrently appoint a Neutral Expert and a Chair of the Court of Arbitration

• Carrying out two processes concurrently poses practical and legal challenges.

• India will assess the matter.


Image



But on March 31, 2022, the World Bank suddenly woke up and decided to resume the process of appointing a Neutral Expert and a Chairman for the Court of Arbitration.

So what happened in March 2022?

Answer : India abstained in two UNGA votes on Ukraine humanitarian crisis.




The Indus treaty has certain procedures to handle issues.

Step 1. Permanent Indus Commission for “questions”
Step 2. Neutral Expert to resolve “differences”
Step 3. Court of Arbitration for “disputes”

So why did Pakistan insist for a Court of Arbitration?

The Court of Arbitration has the authority to give a STAY ORDER on India’s hydroelectric power plants while the neutral experts do not have such powers.


On October 17 2022, World Bank announced Sean Murphy as chairman of Court of Arbitration & Michel Lino as neutral expert.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Muppalla »

kancha wrote:Folks, doing a three part blog series titled Indus Water Treaty - A Pragmatic Water Sharing Agreement or a Potential Source of Conflict?
This is the Link to the first part.
May have a look.
Did you write all three? I see only one. Do you have links for the other two?
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Interesting presentation by the Paki IWT commissioner (retd)

FF to 36:20
This is such an unfair and one sided treaty.
Al Bak has 47% of the Indus Basin(Reality is much less as POJK is ours) but gets 137MAF out of 171MAF(80 bloody %)
:x
Thanks to the duffers at INC for this gift.
Patni
BRFite
Posts: 886
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 10:32
Location: Researching sub-humans to our west!

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Patni »

India has issued notice to Pakistan for modification of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) of September 1960.

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1618833510198034433?s=20
Notice was conveyed on January 25 through respective Commissioners for Indus Waters: Sources
Pakistan’s actions have adversely impinged on the provisions of IWT and their implementation, and forced India to issue an appropriate notice for modification of IWT: Sources
Despite repeated efforts by India to find a mutually agreeable way forward, Pakistan refused to discuss the issue during the five meetings of the Permanent Indus Commission from 2017 to 2022: Sources
At Pakistan’s continuing insistence, the World Bank has recently initiated actions on both the Neutral Expert and Court of Arbitration processes. Such parallel consideration of the same issues is not covered under any provision of IWT: Sources
The objective of the notice for modification is to provide Pakistan an opportunity to enter into intergovernmental negotiations within 90 days to rectify the material breach of IWT. This process would also update IWT to incorporate the lessons learned over last 62 years: Sources
long needed move by GoI!
Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8266
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Dilbu »

This process would also update IWT to incorporate the lessons learned over last 62 years
This is very cryptic and potent. What could be some of the changes India would want to incorporate to IWT? Gurus please to explain.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Manish_P »

MeshaVishwas wrote:..
This is such an unfair and one sided treaty.
Al Bak has 47% of the Indus Basin(Reality is much less as POJK is ours) but gets 137MAF out of 171MAF(80 bloody %)
:x
Thanks to the duffers at INC for this gift.
Not duffers. Appeasers maybe, but certainly not duffers..

Anyway finally some movement on this flank.

The cynic in me thinks there is a possibility that MAD might be timing this for the 2029 elections. Nothing wrong in that in my book,
mody
BRFite
Posts: 1362
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by mody »

From some of the news bites, it seems the changes proposed are mainly for dispute redressal. Currently India is miffed that a neutral expert and a court of arbitration both have been convened. Mostly India will propose a shorter and more streamlined process for dispute redressal, as the pakis have been using the procedures to cause undue delay in our projects, even when the concerns raised by them are not found to be justified.

If the pakis don't agree to the changes, then maybe a bigger danda will start getting used progressively. The pakis are desperate and the economy is in deep trouble, so the wiggle room is somewhat curtailed.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2023-01-27
India sends notice to Pakistan on Indus Water Treaty, blames it of 'intransigence'
Pakistan's actions have adversely impinged on the provisions of the Indus Water Treaty (IWT) and their implementation, and forced India to issue an appropriate notice for modification of the pact, said sources.
India Today Web Desk, New Delhi, Jan 27, 2023

India has blamed Pakistan of "intransigence" on the implementation of the Indus Water Treaty (IWT) and has issued a notice to it, PTI reported on Friday quoting sources. The "notice of modification" was sent to Islamabad on January 25.
India and Pakistan signed the IWT in September 1960 after nine-year-long negotiations. The World Bank was a signatory of the pact. The IWT sets out a mechanism for cooperation and information exchange between the two countries regarding the use of waters of a number of rivers.
India has always been a steadfast supporter and a responsible partner in implementing the IWT in letter and spirit, the sources were quoted by the news agency as saying. "However, Pakistan's actions have adversely impinged on the provisions of IWT and their implementation, and forced India to issue an appropriate notice for modification of the pact," said one of the sources.
Pakistan had in 2015 sought the appointment of a neutral expert to its technical objections to Kishenganga and Ratle Hydro Electric Projects in India. The very next year, Islamabad retracted the request and sought a court of arbitration to adjudicate its objections.
This unilateral action by Pakistan was in contravention of the graded mechanism of dispute settlement envisaged by Article IX of the IWT, the sources said. Accordingly, India made a separate request for the matter to be referred to a neutral expert.
.....
Gautam
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by g.sarkar »

https://news.abplive.com/news/india/ind ... 960-157832
India Issues Ultimatum To Pakistan On Indus Water Treaty As Islamabad Seeks Legal Battle Over 2 Hydel Plants
India has said Pakistan violated Indus Water Treaty provisions after World Bank appointed Neutral Expert & Court of Arbitration Chairman in relation to controversial Kishenganga & Ratle hydel plants.
Nayanima Basu,27 Jan 2023

New Delhi: India has issued an ultimatum to Pakistan over amending the Indus Water Treaty (IWT), asking Islamabad to begin intergovernmental consultations over the disputed Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric power plants, ABP Live has learnt. The notice was issued to Pakistan on January 25, in which India has said Islamabad has violated the provisions of the IWT over the construction of the two mega hydroelectric power plants, and hence sought an amendment to it, government sources told ABP Live.
“Pakistani intransigence on the Indus Waters Treaty forced India to issue a notice of modification to the Treaty for the first time since the pact came into existence in 1960… Notice was conveyed on January 25 through respective Commissioners for Indus Waters. This is as per Article XII (3) of IWT,” said an official source.
India and Pakistan have been engaged in a bitter battle over the two projects — Kishenganga hydroelectric power plant (330 megawatts) and Ratle hydroelectric power plant (330 megawatts) — as both sides disagree over the technical design and believe it violates the basic tenets of the treaty.
The current imbroglio has erupted following the recent actions taken by the World Bank in this issue. The World Bank, which is also a signatory to the treaty, had been the main facilitator in the negotiations when the pact was signed in 1960.
.......
Gautam
Last edited by g.sarkar on 27 Jan 2023 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Manish_P wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:..
This is such an unfair and one sided treaty.
Al Bak has 47% of the Indus Basin(Reality is much less as POJK is ours) but gets 137MAF out of 171MAF(80 bloody %)
:x
Thanks to the duffers at INC for this gift.
Not duffers. Appeasers maybe, but certainly not duffers..

Anyway finally some movement on this flank.

The cynic in me thinks there is a possibility that MAD might be timing this for the 2029 elections. Nothing wrong in that in my book,
Not sure of the politics angle of Modiji, AS and NSA but INC has a infuriating history of bungling up negotiations with a terror state & one of the abbu.Right from the jack assery displayed by PM#1 and his coterie in the accession of JK, to the Tibet walk over, the IWT, the return of recaptured lands in 65(not pandit Nehru but still...), The Shimla accords and as recent as the Sharm el Sheikh debacle.
Govt owes the nation a fair deal on such a critical issue for sure and I agree with your sentiment, FINALLY some movement in the + direction.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Manish_P »

MeshaVishwas wrote:...INC has a infuriating history of bungling up negotiations with a terror state & one of the abbu.Right from the jack assery displayed by PM#1 and his coterie in the accession of JK, to the Tibet walk over, the IWT, the return of recaptured lands in 65(not pandit Nehru but still...), The Shimla accords and as recent as the Sharm el Sheikh debacle..
Agree. Don't forget 71. Helped creation of Bangladesh but didn't sieze the oportunity to convert the chicken neck into a bulls neck.
Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 780
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Y I Patel »

The real target of the notice to Pakistan is the World Bank. Demanded modifications will very likely involve watering down or elimination of WB’s powers to appoint an arbitrator. Retaliation for all the decades of sham neutrality.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32227
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by chetak »

It may also have a planned collateral side effect
India has issued notice to Pakistan for modification of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) of September 1960 on 25 January 2023. Sends notice to Pakistan to enter into Intergovernmental negotiations within 90 days.
chacha neverwho's blunder will be in the spotlight, and the BJP will be publicly skewering his grandpappy, and highlighting his blunders in signing the IWT with such adverse conditions, and so detrimental to Indian interests....

and that's right in the middle the pappu's Bharat todo yatra shenanigans
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by RoyG »

In case of any future forfeiture of land, the framework for amending the treaty has to begin in advance.

Now is the right time to apply pressure. Good move.
Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9263
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Post by Amber G. »

When Pakistnais are crying:
कंगाली में आटा गीला
India is there to help.
Post Reply