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Indus Water Treaty

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Cosmo_R » 25 Nov 2016 20:33

SSridhar wrote:This has to be recorded here. Ignore the headline.

After our surgical strikes, Pakistan knows what Indian Army is capable of, PM Modi says - ToI
PM Modi also brought up the issue of water-sharing and the Indus Water Treaty.

"Our farmers have the right over the water that flows through Indus. The government has formed a task force to see what can be done to make maximum use of water that flows to Pakistan under the Indus Water Treaty," he said.

He also said he would stop "every drop" of Indus water from going to Pakistan, and that he would keep it for Jammu and Kashmir, for Punjab and for India's farmers.

"The fields of our farmers must have adequate water. Water that belongs to India cannot be allowed to go to Pakistan," he said.

The PM then had a few words of advice for India's north-western neighbour.

"Instead of waging war against India, Pakistan should fight poverty, black money (and) corruption," he said.


The PM has chosen the words carefully, like his reference to Balochistan. Reaction from Pakistan is understandable. But, I expect some useless Indian politicians. commentators & analysts to go ballistic now.


I think we have to be careful with this:

"He also said he would stop "every drop" of Indus water from going to Pakistan, and that he would keep it for Jammu and Kashmir, for Punjab and for India's farmers. "

I think this is DDM. What Namo probably said was ""every drop" of India's water from going to Pakistan, and that he would keep it for Jammu and Kashmir, for Punjab and for India's farmers. "

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby nandakumar » 25 Nov 2016 23:09

manjgu wrote:yes..water from sutlej does flow into Pakistan. we often dont dry it completely before it flows into pakistan...

And water from river Ravi too, if I am not mistaken. Remember news stories about terrorists entering Punjab on boats via the river Ravi?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 26 Nov 2016 16:46

i think there are some nullahs out of Ravi which go into pakistan with water..the Pakis changed course of the river flooding some parts of indian fence..these nullahs are used for ingress.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 03 Dec 2016 08:19

India's own credibility will be at stake if Indus Waters Treaty is violated, says Pakistan
Pakistan has reminded India of its obligations under the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) and cautioned that New Delhi's own credibility will be at stake if the accord was violated.

"India has to abide by its international obligations, if it wants to be taken seriously by the international community," Foreign Office spokesman Nafees Zakaria said.


He was commenting on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's remarks on November 25 when he had said that waters of Sutlej, Beas and Ravi rivers "rightfully" belong to India will be stopped from going "waste" in Pakistan.

Zakaria said the IWT was a binding agreement under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, 1969, Dawn reported.

India has been, since the escalation of tensions after the Uri militant attack, indicating its intention to revisit the accord.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 03 Dec 2016 20:17

And Pakistan has enormous credibility, being the country that sheltered Osama Bin Laden, Mullah Omar and the Lashkar-E-Toiba. So India should go right ahead and risk losing credibility.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 05 Dec 2016 18:11

Pakistan okays financing plan for Diamer-Bhasha dam that India objects to - ToI
The World Bank and the Asian Development Bank have refused to come on board Pakistan's proposed $14 billion Diamer-Bhasha dam on the Indus river, which India objects to, but still, Islamabad today approved a financing plan for the dam, Radio Pakistan reported today.

Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif today approved "in principle" the financing plan for the 4500 megawatt Diamer-Basha dam. He told his Water and Power secretary to begin preparations to start work on the dam before the end of next year, the radio station reported.

This financial plan, made on a "self-reliance basis" {USD 14B on a 'self-reliance basis'? What happened to the 'stronger than steel' brother?} , proposes that a portion of the required funding for the dam comes from allocations made by the Public Sector Development Programme and from the Water and Power Development Authority (Wapda).

Two years ago, the World Bank refused to come on board as a lender for Diamer-Bhasha, because Pakistan didn't want to seek a no-objection certificate from India for the project. The dam is planned in the Gilgit-Baltistan region, which India claims is a part of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir.

Late last month, the Asian Development Bank too declined to fund the $14 billion dam over the Indus river, Pakistani media reported.

Delhi has long protested moves to support the Diamer-Bhasha dam and other infrastructure ventures in or bordering Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir.

A little over a year ago, the US was making noises about supporting the project and India didn't shy away from showing it was peeved. And now, especially after the brazen terror attack in Uri in Jammu and Kashmir, India can expect to get, and is getting, tacit and overt support from around the world in slamming Pakistan for cross-border terror. In this scenario, the Diamer-Bhasha dam may not go much further.

"The refusal from and reluctance of international financial institutions such as the ADB and World Bank to fund the project, allegedly at India's insistence, have somewhat constrained Pakistan's geo-economic designs in the region," wrote Priyanka Singh, associate fellow at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, New Delhi, in January.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 11 Dec 2016 05:20

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

India plans to make most of its share of water under Indus pact with Pakistan

NEW DELHI: India has set in motion its ambitious plan to utilise its share of water from western tributaries of the Indus, a decision driven by India-Pakistan geopolitics, which may see work begin on a major hydel project on the Chenab early next year. It is a long haul to implement PM Narendra Modi's September 27 decision to review water use within the ambit of the Indus Water Treaty (IWT) with Pakistan, but the government has prioritised three hydel projects on Chenab and its tributary —Sawalkot (1,856 MW), Pakal Dul (1,000 MW) and Bursar (800 MW) —in a time-bound manner.

Building infrastructure on Indus, Chenab, Jhelum and their tributaries is a huge task but the short-listed projects are intended to express India's political will and preparedness to respond to Pakistan's use of terrorism against India with every option at its command including a new preparedness to use all possible leverage points.

"The Centre has constantly been in touch with Jammu & Kashmir government for all necessary ground work. Execution of Sawalkot project is expected to start early next year. The under-construction Pakal Dul project has already received an impetus after the government displayed an urgency to complete it on time," said an official.

The Sawalkot project envisages a 193-meter-high dam on Chenab for generating 1,856 MW. It will be constructed in two phases. Since 629 families consisting of 4,400 individuals are likely to be displaced, the state government has been working on a proper rehabilitation plan before actual work begins. The Bursar project will, however, take time before it gets clearances.

"Since NHPC had initially termed it an unviable project on certain grounds, there is need for proper study before the government goes ahead with it. The project may be tweaked to make it viable as it is now our priority area," said the official. As previous cost and viability calculations are revised in view of the political imperative, India could be looking to use as much of Indus water as it can. "Maximising use of water must be priority. It is good that the government has sincerely moved to execute pending projects to legitimately use its share of water within IWT. This is the most realistic option well within the framework of the treaty," said Uttam Sinha of the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA).

Towards this end, speeding up pending hydro-power projects is only one component of what India can do to utilise its share of water under the IWT. Under the 1960 treaty, India is permitted to construct storage capacities on the western rivers up to 3.6 million acre feet (MAF) for various purpose including domestic use.

India has, so far, not developed any storage facility or tapped its full quota of water for irrigation.
Referring to the World Bank's recent decision to set up a Court of Arbitration (CoA) to settle disputes relating to Kishanganga and Ratle hydro projects on Pakistan's demand, Sinha said India should forcefully tell the Bank to factor in technological changes and new knowledge while looking at the implementation of ongoing projects.
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby ranjan.rao » 11 Dec 2016 08:16

The fact that these things were not even discussed in msm speaks volumes about the Pak pasandi of our presstitutes and political elite.. Welcome first step before abrogating this nehruvian era largesse

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 12 Dec 2016 01:29


arun
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 13 Dec 2016 12:17

World Bank press release announces a sensible pause has been called to the World Banks stupid move to simultaneously appoint a Neutral Expert and Court of Arbitration in order to adjudicate on the Kishanganga and Ratle projects under the Indus Water Treaty:

PRESS RELEASE

World Bank Declares Pause to Protect Indus Waters Treaty

December 12, 2016

WASHINGTON, December 12—The World Bank Group today announced a pause in the separate processes initiated by India and Pakistan under the Indus Waters Treaty to allow the two countries to consider alternative ways to resolve their disagreements.

The announcement temporarily halts the appointment of a Neutral Expert, as requested by India, and the Chairman of the Court of Arbitration, as requested by Pakistan, to resolve issues regarding two hydroelectric power plants under construction by India along the Indus rivers system. Both processes initiated by the respective countries were advancing at the same time, creating a risk of contradictory outcomes that could potentially endanger the Treaty.

“We are announcing this pause to protect the Indus Waters Treaty and to help India and Pakistan consider alternative approaches to resolving conflicting interests under the Treaty and its application to two hydroelectric power plants,” said World Bank Group President Jim Yong Kim, "This is an opportunity for the two countries to begin to resolve the issue in an amicable manner and in line with the spirit of the treaty rather than pursuing concurrent processes that could make the treaty unworkable over time. I would hope that the two countries will come to an agreement by the end of January."

The pause was announced by Kim in letters to the finance ministers of India and Pakistan and emphasized that the Bank was acting to safeguard the Treaty. Pausing the process for now, the Bank would hold off from appointing the Chairman for the Court of Arbitration or the Neutral Expert – appointments that had been expected on December 12 as earlier communicated by the Bank.

The current processes under the treaty concern the Kishenganga (330 megawatts) and Ratle (850 megawatts) hydroelectric power plants. The power plants are being built by India on, respectively, the Kishenganga and Chenab Rivers. Neither of the two plants are being financed by the World Bank Group.

The Indus Waters Treaty 1960 is seen as one of the most successful international treaties and has withstood frequent tensions between India and Pakistan, including conflict. The Treaty sets out a mechanism for cooperation and information exchange between the two countries regarding their use of the rivers, known as the Permanent Indus Commission which includes a commissioner from each of the two countries. It also sets out a process for resolving so-called “questions”, “differences” and “disputes” that may arise between the parties.


From here:

PRESS RELEASE : World Bank Declares Pause to Protect Indus Waters Treaty

As continuation of Indus Water Treaty is not India's interest, India must hold firm that only a Neutral Expert will do and hope and that the Mohammadden Terrorist Fomenting Islamic Republic takes the alternate view resulting in the World Bank Group President Jim Yong Kim's "apprehension" that the Indus Water Treaty becomes "unworkable over time".

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 13 Dec 2016 19:54

but hasnt the Krishen ganga issue been settled already? Ratle i can understand but how come KG is also part of the current ruling?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 13 Dec 2016 22:14

MEA Press Release on the World Bank Press Release of December 12 regarding the Indus Waters Treaty Matter:

Official Spokesperson's response to a question on the World Bank Press Release of December 12 regarding the Indus Waters Treaty Matter.

December 13, 2016

In response to a question on the World Bank Press Release of December 12 regarding the Indus Waters Treaty Matter, the Official Spokesperson said:


"The government had pointed out on 10 November 2016 the legal untenability of the World Bank launching two simultaneous processes for appointment of a Neutral Expert - requested by India - and establishment of a Court of Arbitration - requested by Pakistan- to adjudicate technical differences between India and a Pakistan on Kishenganga and Ralte projects. By temporarily halting both the processes now, the Bank has confirmed that pursuing the two concurrent processes can render the Treaty unworkable over time.

India remains fully conscious of her international obligations and is ready to engage in further consultations on the matter of resolving current differences regarding these two projects."

Clocky


Earlier MEA Press Release of November 10, 2016 protesting World Bank’s stupid decision to simultaneously appoint a Neutral Expert and Court of Arbitration:

Official Spokesperson's response to a query on Kishenganga matter at the World Bank

November 10, 2016


In response to a query on Kishenganga matter at the World Bank, Official Spokesperson said:

''Under the Indus Waters Treaty, signed between India and Pakistan and also the World Bank in 1960, the World Bank has a specified role in the process of resolution of differences and disputes.

On the issue of differences between India and Pakistan on Kishenganga and Ratle Hydroelectric Projects under the Indus Waters Treaty, India had asked the World Bank to appoint a Neutral Expert to resolve the differences of a technical nature which are within the domain of a neutral technical expert. Pakistan had sought the establishment of a Court of Arbitration, which is normally the logical next step in the process of resolution in the Treaty. The Neutral Expert can also determine that there are issues beyond mere technical differences.

The World Bank has decided to proceed with both steps simultaneously. It was pointed by the Government to the World Bank that the pursuit of two parallel difference/ dispute resolution mechanisms - appointment of a Neutral Expert and establishment of a Court of Arbitration – at the same time is legally untenable.

Inexplicably, the World Bank has decided to continue to proceed with these two parallel mechanisms simultaneously. India cannot be party to actions which are not in accordance with the Indus Waters Treaty.

The Government will examine further options and take steps accordingly.''

Clicky

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 14 Dec 2016 22:47

WAPDA website on the Neelam-Jhelam Project

http://www.wapda.gov.pk/index.php/neelum-jhelum

Finish date is mentioned as Feb 2018. Cost overruns are mentioned, donors are mentioned as are the project details.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby venug » 14 Dec 2016 22:52

Pakistan, India will consider new talks on water dispute

what is there to consider when we have given them waters so generously. Only reconsideration should be to claim our rightful share.
Retake PoK, and reduce water share of TSP. When we have them by their b@ll$, their hearts and minds follow.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Falijee » 14 Dec 2016 23:52

CROSS POSTED FROM STFP


One More Action By India "To Squeeze Paki Water" :D



Task force on Indus Water Treaty in one week’s time

The government has finalised the details of a task force on Indus Water Treaty, which will be formed within one week, with the aim to stop river waters going waste in Pakistan.“The government wants to ensure surplus water for farmers in border states of Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir. This can easily be done by stopping water from Indian rivers which flows into Pakistan from going waste there,” a source said.The Indus Waters Treaty of 1960 covers the water distribution and sharing rights of six rivers — Beas, Ravi, Sutlej, Indus, Chenab and Jhelum.“Framework for the task force on Indus Water Treaty has been prepared. The task force will comprise 6 to 7 members and will be formed within a week,” the source said.Prime Minister Narendra Modi had recently said that Sutlej, Beas, Ravi waters belong to India and is not being used in Pakistan. “Every drop of this water will be stopped and would be given to farmers of Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir,” Mr. Modi had said. Meanwhile, the World Bank which had brokered the treaty in 1960, has paused the separate processes initiated by India and Pakistan under the Indus Waters Treaty to allow the two countries to consider alternative ways to resolve their disagreements.India had taken strong exception last month to the World Bank’s decision to set up a Court of Arbitration to look into Pakistan’s complaint against it over Kishenganga and Ratle hydroelectric projects in Jammu and Kashmir.Surprised at the World Bank’s decision to appoint a neutral expert, as sought by the Indian government, and at the same time establish a Court of Arbitration as wanted by Pakistan, India had said proceeding with both the steps simultaneously was “legally untenable”.

As and when the recommended actions of this Task Force are implemented by India , it will trigger a water (civil) war between Pakjab and the Sind province (lower riparian ), and will definitely reinforce the exploitative image of Pakjab province :mrgreen:

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 15 Dec 2016 00:12


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 15 Dec 2016 00:25


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 16 Dec 2016 23:37

Per Paki Ex IWT official Jamat Ali Shah ( a traitor who ran 2 Canada , Paki have put the treaty in jeapordy and WB ruling is sign of India 's upper hand .

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby arun » 17 Dec 2016 14:05

India, Pakistan Divided Over Pause on Indus Treaty Resolution

By Omair Ahmad on 14/12/2016 • 2 Comments

As the World Bank announces a pause in its two concurrent processes of dispute resolution, India sees it as a success, while the Pakistan government has not reacted officially ……………..

By initiating a competing process well after Pakistan had requested setting up a court of arbitration, India created the situation of two concurrent processes that it is now saying is legally untenable. ……………………

The Wire


Adroit move by India to scuttle the Mohammadden Terrorist Fomenting Islam Republic of Pakistan’s bid to have the World Bank establish a Court of Arbitration by calling for a Neutral Expert well after Pakistan launched its bid.

Meanwhile during the bilateral negotiations with the Mohammadden Terrorist Fomenting Islam Republic of Pakistan called by the World Bank, India must make it clear that if the bilateral talks breakdown the next step will only be to take matters to Neutral Expert . The World Bank in its January 18, 2005 has made it plain that the Neutral Expert process comes before the Court of Arbitration process:

World Bank Receives Request From Pakistan Under Indus Waters Treaty

News Release No:2005/287/SAR
Contacts:
In Washington DC:
Dale Lautenbach (202) 473-3405
E-mail: dlautenbach@worldbank.org
In Islamabad:
Shahzad Sharjeel (051) 819-781
E-mail: ssharjeel@worldbank.org
In Delhi:
Sumir Lal: (9111) 2461-7241
E-mail: slal@worldbank.org

WASHINGTON, January 18, 2005 – The World Bank today received a letter from the Government of Pakistan asking the Bank to appoint a “neutral expert” under the Indus Waters Treaty.

The World Bank will examine the request and follow the procedures laid down by the Treaty.

The Indus Waters Treaty was concluded by India and Pakistan on September 19, 1960. The World Bank is a signatory to the Treaty for certain specified purposes. It is not a guarantor of the Treaty. Many of the purposes for which the World Bank signed the Treaty have been completed. There are now three remaining responsibilities for the World Bank under the Treaty, relating to settlement of differences and disputes.

Disagreements by the parties on the interpretation of the provisions of the Treaty are classified into three categories: questions are examined by the Permanent Indus Commission; differences by a Neutral Expert; and disputes by a Court of Arbitration.

According to the Treaty, the remaining responsibilities of the World Bank are:

One, a role for the World Bank in the appointment of a Neutral Expert. The first step under the Treaty is to resolve any "question" through the Permanent Indus Commission itself. If the "question" is not resolved there, it becomes a "difference" and is referred to a Neutral Expert, to be appointed by the two countries, or by a third party agreed upon by the two countries. In the absence of such an agreement, the appointment of the Neutral Expert would be made by the World Bank, in consultation with the two countries. The decision of the Neutral Expert on all matters within his competence shall be final and binding.

Two, the management by the World Bank of a trust fund to meet the expenses of a Neutral Expert.

Three, a role for the World Bank in the establishment of a Court of Arbitration. If the “difference” does not fall within the mandate of the Neutral Expert, or if the Neutral Expert rules that the “difference” should be treated as a “dispute”, then a Court of Arbitration would be established. Under the Treaty, the World Bank has a role in the establishment of such a Court.

Clicky

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 17 Dec 2016 23:19

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Cwapistan has itself to blame for WB decision

ISLAMABAD: The Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) is considered one of the most successful water-sharing endeavours in the world. But it is at stake today. Reason: The World Bank, which had brokered the treaty between Pakistan and India in 1960, has apparently buckled under New Delhi’s pressure.

On December 13, the World Bank announced a pause in the separate processes initiated by India and Pakistan under the treaty to allow the two countries to consider alternative ways to resolve their disagreements. The current processes under the treaty concern the 330-megawatt Kishanganga and 850-megawatt Ratle hydroelectric power projects being built by India on the Kishanganga and Chenab rivers.

Officials and experts say the World Bank has no mandate to ask Islamabad and New Delhi to resolve their water-related issue bilaterally. At the same time, they say Pakistan has itself to blame for the dilemma it faces today.

“The World Bank’s role is limited to facilitating the appointment of chairman court of arbitration,” Kamal Majidullah, the prime minister’s former special assistant on water resources, told The Express Tribune.

However, Majidullah said it was a wrong decision by the incumbent government to approach the World Bank. “Pakistan should have knocked at the door of International Court of Arbitration,” he added. “India preferred the World Bank because it had won a favourbale decision from a neutral expert nominated by the bank on the Baglihar hydroelectric power project built by India on the Chenab river.”

He said the United Nations secretary general and the World Bank had a mandate to appoint a chairman court of arbitration. “In the case of Kishanganga, the UN secretary general had already appointed a chairman court of arbitration,” he added.

Officials say the non-serious attitude of the Pakistan government has led to the situation where Pakistan has again been forced to hold talks with India even though Premier Narendra Modi has repeatedly threatened to run Pakistan dry.

They cite the change in Pakistan’s stance at the World Bank as a reason for the IWT guarantor to give in to the Indian pressure. Premier Nawaz Sharif’s predecessor had approved a summary in 2009 to petition the World Bank to act as a neutral expert over the design of Kishanganga dam.

“However, the incumbent government withdrew that plea and instead sought the World Bank help to set up a court of arbitration on Kishanganga’s design,” one official told The Express Tribune. India, in the meanwhile, requested the World Bank to act as a neutral expert rather than establishing court. Interestingly, the World Bank had granted Pakistan’s request of establishing a court of arbitration but the case was not pursued.

“This was the reason that the World Bank came under Indian pressure,” another official said. “When Pakistan’s request for setting up a court of arbitration had been accepted by the World Bank, there was no reason to hear India’s plea to act as neutral expert.”

Pakistan’s former Indus Waters Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah agrees that the slow response from the Pakistan government was the main reason for the World Bank buckling under India’s pressure. “The World Bank has asked the two countries to find out a solution, but a bilateral arrangement might not be possible given the hostility between the two neighbours,” Shah added.

The Indus waters commissioner is mandated to pursue cases involving water issues with India or any other country. But officials say it is regrettable that Pakistan doesn’t have a permanent Indus waters commissioner.

Asif Baig, who is currently working as Indus waters commissioner, is an employee of the consultant firm NESPAK and has been holding the position since 2012. “In such a situation, how any country can safeguard its water interests,” a third official told The Express Tribune.

Ahmer Bilal Soofi, president of the Research Society of International Law, says the World Bank should decide the case instead of asking the two states to resolve it bilaterally.

“It will be difficult for India and Pakistan to find a mutually acceptable solution,” he told The Express Tribune. “If India uses water as weapon, then Pakistan approach international forums like the UN secretary general outside the mechanism in the IWT.”

Experts and officials say India would press the World Bank to appoint a neutral expert rather than going to the international court. Appointment of a neutral expert by the World Bank may entail the same consequences that Pakistan had faced in the case of Baglihar dam, they believe. Pakistan should go to the International Court of Arbitration rather than relying on the World Bank.
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 20 Dec 2016 07:31

Khotta, Lotta and Potta
Indus treaty interrupted

The pause is without any apparent legal basis and adds to the inordinate delay by authorities to resolve issues as required by the treaty; however, according to media reports the Kishenganga hydroelectric project is already a fait accompli and inauguration of the plant in October was postponed due to unrest in the region. The 850 MW Ratle hydroelectric project being built on the Chenab River in the Kishtwar district of India-held Kashmir is expected to start generating power in 2018.Unfortunately, the commission has been unable to function in the true spirit of the treaty and has been ineffective in fostering an improved relationship and cooperation. Legal questions pertaining to India’s intended permanent river diversion and depletion of the reservoir below dead storage level for sediment flushing were determined by the court of arbitration in its February 2013 partial award in the Kishenganga dispute.Much has already been written about the award which was celebrated as a victory by both sides. Although Pakistan’s gains were manifold, it was particularly significant as the award overturned the decision of the neutral expert in the Baglihar case and brought to an end India’s reliance on an erroneous and inconclusive decision.The Baglihar decision had allowed India the control of flows by eliminating the live storage limitation set by the treaty. Stringent design and operational restrictions had, in effect, been rewritten by the neutral expert. The court restored a tenet which was fundamental to Pakistan, allaying concerns on India’s ability to manipulate water flows.The late Prof John Briscoe described it as winning the war for Pakistan as the Kishenganga hydroelectric project diversion is a one-off; however, the finding on depletion of dead storage must be adhered to by India in all future projects.
The impact of this decision on the feasibility of India’s 150 hydroelectric projects planned on the western rivers can be gauged from its present posture and threats to abrogate the treaty which Pakistan should not be sanguine about. India has been exploring avenues to renegotiate its use of the western rivers or abrogate the Indus Waters Treaty as part of a planned strategy. The 2010 task force report titled Water Security for India: The External Dynamics by New Delhi’s Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis seems to have gone amiss. The court of arbitration’s determination has certainly put a spanner in the works.Shortly after the partial award was announced, an undertaking was requested from India that it would not proceed with the construction of the controversial works of the dam until the resolution of the differences as the stop work order had been lifted. A confirmation was also sought in March 2013 that India would alter the design of the Kishenganga hydroelectric project to ensure compliance with the design parameters set out in the treaty and as determined by the court of arbitration. Similarly, in the case of the Ratle hydroelectric project, efforts to resolve the issues bilaterally began at the end of 2012.
The award made the treaty functional, elaborating on the mechanism and time frame for the settlement of disputes in the event of an impasse; thus it is perturbing to note that several years have been spent on arduous parleys certain to end in futility. Inaction and delay have jeopardised the achievements of the Kishenganga award. The fear of failure had been amongst the reasons for reluctance to pursue dispute settlement options previously but given the certainty of outcome the delay is inexplicable. Public interest, during the days leading to the Kishenganga arbitration and thereafter, enhanced transparency on water issues with India which has been absent for the last three years.The bank has offered to arrange for an independent third-party mediator to help the two countries reach an agreement on issues pertaining to the two dams. However, departure from the processes provided under the treaty should be viewed with caution as this could entail the risk of revisiting matters already determined by the court of arbitration.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Rishi Verma » 20 Dec 2016 07:48

So pakis can break all treaties while India must adhere to IWT, WTF. Terrorism aka war and water can't flow together. Modi must be checking options on turning off all and any water. Back on bargaining table should be two demands. PoK return to India and freedom for Baluchistan. Anyway the Bakis want to live like their Arab ancestors copulating with camels under the desert moon.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 20 Dec 2016 11:09


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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 23 Dec 2016 03:53

Old News Dated 02-12-2016 - X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Alarming situation: ‘Century-old canal system results in 40% water losses’

MULTAN: The century-old canal irrigation system in Punjab is facing a number of operational problems resulting in a high degree of losses of water during conveyance of irrigation water to agricultural lands.

This was said by Agricultural Information Assistant Director Naveed Asmat Kahloon while speaking to The Express Tribune.

While sharing details, he said at least 40% water losses had been reported due to poor maintenance and dilapidated condition of irrigation system in the province. He said channel comprises of about 58,000 watercourses which irrigate 37.46 million acres of land. “This is resulting in severe shortage of irrigation supplies at farm level that is being further aggravated due to escalating pressure on agriculture because of rapidly increasing population,”* he added.

Naveed said seepage, spillage and side leakage resulting from irregular profile and zigzag alignment of banks were the major reasons of water loss. In addition, he said silt deposition, causing restrictions in flows and overtopping, shrubs, vegetation and trees growing in way of watercourses, varying cross sections of the conveyance channel, frequent bank cuttings and plugging for water diversion and damage caused by rodents and animals also result in loss of water.

The solution

He emphasised these losses could be minimised by adopting watercourse improvement procedure which consists of complete demolishing of community channel and its rebuilding/re-aligning according to the engineering design to increase conveyance efficiency by reducing seepage, evaporation and operational losses.

He maintained since inception of On Farm Water Management Programme, at least 44,000 watercourses had been remodeled and reconstructed according to engineering design in the canal commanded areas of Punjab.

The assistant director pointed out, “The intervention has generated significant economic, financial, social and environmental benefits.” He said the strategy has been widely accepted by the farmers, planners and policy makers at national as well as international level.

He further said different impacts of evaluation studies of watercourse improvement programme had been carried out by various organisations/institutions. The findings of these assessments revealed that the scheme was highly cost effective for improving farm gate water availability. He said, “The government is providing entire cost of construction materials, besides providing technical guidance while the farmers are required to contribute entire labour costs for improvement of the watercourses.
* We breed as rabbits, we die like vermin

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 23 Dec 2016 16:59


Rishi Verma
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Rishi Verma » 24 Dec 2016 09:58

First High-Level Meeting Held to Fully Exploit IWT

NEW DELHI: With India looking at full exploitation of its rights under the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) with Pakistan, a high-level inter-ministerial task force held its first meeting on Friday, focussing on bringing Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir on board for speeding up work on the ground through better co-ordination.

Discussions at the meeting, chaired by the Prime Minister's principal secretary Nripendra Mishra, revolved around fast-tracking proposed hydro-power projects in Jammu and Kashmir and building necessary infrastructure, including storage capacity, to tap water from three western rivers of the Indus system — Indus, Jhelum and Chenab.


Just the meeting itself puts a lot of paki-pasand politicians in J&K in catch 20 ... How can they give heartburn to Bakis without supporting water for Cashmere. Now next round of wailing and cursing on ISI sponsored Baki Channels.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 24 Dec 2016 13:23

is diversion of water from chenab to the extent of 20% into beas/sutlej allowed as per IWT? if we cant get Punjab to agree to SYL, pray its not going to be easy to do what Modi ji is planning to do. or will SYL carry the excess 20% towards yamuna? storage structures are not coming up in any hurry..though I hope urgency is shown and we turn the screws on napakis !!

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby pankajs » 24 Dec 2016 14:09

Here is the first para from the TOIlet link posted
NEW DELHI: With India looking at full exploitation of its rights under the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) with Pakistan, a high-level inter-ministerial task force held its first meeting on Friday, focussing on bringing Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir on board for speeding up work on the ground through better co-ordination.

They key words are
1. Its rights (India's)
2. Under the IWT

My understanding on reading the article.
1. We will stay within the treaty.
2. Build storage for the max allowed under IWT i.e. up to 3.6 million acre feet (MAF). Zero till date ignoring the little pondage for the ROR projects. No storage dam has been planned yet.
3. Irrigation for the max allowed under IWT. Utilization still low than what is permitted. Will need to see new storage dams and canals.
4. J&K was invited to speed up the existing projects.
5. A portion of water allocated to us in the eastern rivers is being allowed to flow to Bakistan because of SYL issues. Need to make the rivers zero discharge.
6. Punjab was invited to get the SYL issues sorted.

IIRC, IWT does not allow for diversion of flow of the western rivers except when it is explicitly mentioned e.g. Kishenganga to Jhelum. If we are planning to stay within IWT, IIRC/IMHO there will be NO diversion of western river waters out of J&K. Storage dams and canals can be built to irrigate J&K up to the limit under IWT.

Going by reports, no storage dam is in planning till date. The emphasis is only on getting the current ROR projects completed ASAP. New storage dam will be discussed in due course to utilize our quota under IWT.

They underlined the government's priority to speed up works on the proposed hydro-power projects on Chenab and its tributary —Sawalkot (1856 MW), Pakal Dul (1000 MW) and Bursar (800 MW) —for execution in a time-bound manner.

We must not get blindsided by our desires else we are liable to be disappointed. There are things that can be done under IWT that will create options for the future like taking the internal J&K canals right up to the border and building another one across the state border linking it to SYL while still keeping them unlinked for the present.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Guddu » 24 Dec 2016 22:34

So India is allowed 3.6 MAF or 20 % of flows, do we know how much of this we are currently using. Also, if we take 3.6 MAF does it cause any pain to pak, since I read that much of the water goes waste into the ocean.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gyan » 24 Dec 2016 22:40

A query.

Is it even technogically possible and whether it is economically feasible to store & divert all water of Eastern Rivers even in "monsoon months"?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby pankajs » 25 Dec 2016 00:48

3.6 MAF is our quota from the western rivers that is meant for J&K. We are allowed 100% of the three eastern rivers.

So our 20% of the Indus system = 100% of the 3 eastern rivers + 3.6 MAF of the western rivers flow (primarily meant for j&K)

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Guddu » 25 Dec 2016 02:03

Thanks, my question was with reference to the 3.6 MAF of western rivers.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 25 Dec 2016 11:17

I say, build a tunnel and divert water from Nimoo Bazgo from Indus to south J&K, and then to Himachal

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby g.sarkar » 26 Dec 2016 07:42

Cross post from the Paki sutra:
http://www.firstpost.com/world/indus-wa ... 73350.html
Indus Waters Treaty: Pakistan objects to World Bank pausing two processes
Islamabad: Pakistan has asked the World Bank to "fulfil its obligations" regarding the Indus Waters Treaty as it objected to the body pausing two concurrent processes related to Indo-Pak dispute over Kishenganga and Ratle project.
Pakistan Finance Minister Ishaq Dar in a letter to World Bank President Jim Yong Kim said the Treaty does not provide for a situation wherein a party can "pause" performance of its obligations under the accord.
Dar said the World Bank's decision to pause the process of empanelment of the Court of Arbitration will seriously prejudice Pakistan's interests and rights under the Indus Waters Treaty 1960.
"It (the letter) strongly conveys that the matter of appointment of a Chairman of the Court of Arbitration has been inordinately delayed. It urged the World Bank to execute its obligations under the Indus Waters Treaty," Radio Pakistan reported.
Dar said the "pause" will merely prevent Pakistan from approaching a competent forum and having its grievances addressed.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 26 Dec 2016 08:27

i believe if we have 3.6 MAF storage capacity and we can fill the capacity during seasons where water is required in Pakiland for agriculture, we could really squeeze them. and then release water during non agri season.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 26 Dec 2016 09:21

What I would like to know is how and why did we keep quiet all these years, when we had a potent weapon like the IWT in our hands??

Instead, we kept lauding the IWT as having sustained and surviving a number of Indo pak wars and held that up as a symbol of the robustness of a seriously flawed treaty, diverting everyone's attention away from the fact that this shitty treaty was, first and foremost, totally against the sovereign interests of India and her generations yet to come.

WTF has the world bank go to do with all this?? Their role was done and dusted decades ago and the pakis are now slyly and surreptitiously inserting the amrekis into the equation by repeatedly invoking the WB and we seem to be dancing to their tactical tunes once again.

this is where the lootyens mafia has played it's dirty games and for the cost of a few hotel rooms, some booze and plates chicken tikkas, they have surrendered India's interests to the pakis. The effort continues unabated as seen by the recent dubai conference of Indo pak parliamentarians(???)

Undoubtedly, it also included a few paki ayeshas who have played their comforting roles, duly ( and graphically!! ) recorded for posterity by the ISI and such like facilitators.

and the crap continues, unabated. Three BJP MLAs have also attended. :)


Amid strained relations, India, Pak legislators talk agriculture in Dubai




Despite the recent strain in ties between India and Pakistan, an interaction between elected legislators of both the countries took place in Dubai over the weekend amid much bonhomie.

Five MLAs from Haryana— three from the BJP, two from the Indian National Lok Dal and one from Congress — attended a dialogue on democracy and governance focusing on agriculture/livestock policies and practices, conducted by Islamabad-based Pakistan Institute of Legislative Development and Transparency (PILDAT).Former Congress MP Mani Shankar Aiyar and a member of Pakistan’s Senate, Muhammad Mohsin Khan Leghari, chaired the dialogue which took place last Sunday.

The Pakistani delegation comprised six Members of Provincial Assembly of Pakistan Punjab.

Besides politicians, experts on agriculture attended the event.

Addressing organisers, Aiyar said that it was sad that owing to strained ties, the event had to be held in Dubai instead of India or Pakistan.

“I had initially refused as I did not think anyone from India will attend. But I am glad that so many political representatives have come from Haryana,” he said.

Pakistan Senator Leghari was of the view that despite tension between the two countries, dialogue should not be abandoned.

The participants later arrived at a joint statement in which they stressed the need of continuing dialogue between the countries.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 28 Dec 2016 07:18


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 28 Dec 2016 07:46


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 28 Dec 2016 16:22

chetak wrote:What I would like to know is how and why did we keep quiet all these years, when we had a potent weapon like the IWT in our hands??

We have not used any weapon we have against Pakistan until c. 2014. We were eager for peace talks all the time and inviting them for talks even after horrendous attacks on us. Anyway, that is OT here. Just to point out that IWT is not an exception. What can we expect when we so generously gave away our water rights, subsumed our interests to Pakistan's in the water treaty hoping that our generosity would make the errant brother return to the senses, shackling ourselves with a treaty for eternity in the form of IWT etc. ? Why do we always put ourselves in bigger problems with absolutely no vision or sense and then have to take extreme measures (like we are doing in J&K issue or IWT etc) when things become dangerous for us?

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 29 Dec 2016 19:06

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Want to resolve all issues with India amicably: Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Thursday said it wanted to "amicably" resolve all outstanding issues with India, including those related to the Indus Waters Treaty.

Radio Pakistan quoted Foreign Office spokesman Nafees Zakaria saying during his weekly media briefing that the government was assessing "India's activities" within the framework of the water sharing agreement between the two countries.

Zakaria said the treaty didn't allow unilateral abrogation of the agreement and " "Pakistan is keeping an eye on the evolving situation and would follow its strategy in case of any violation".

"There is an arbitration mechanism to resolve the dispute regarding implementation of the treaty and many IWT disputes were resolved amicably in the past," the state-run radio quoted Zakaria as saying.

"Pakistan is pursuing the policy of peaceful neighbourhood." perpetrating Terrorism in the neighbourhood in General and India in Particular."

The IWT was signed in 1960 to allocate the three eastern rivers of the Indus basin -- the Ravi, Beas and Sutlej -- to India, while 80 per cent waters of the three western ones -- the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab -- were allotted to Pakistan.

India has recently said it would fully utilise its 20 per cent share of the Indus waters and that the proposed water projects would not be in violation of the treaty. Pakistan has disputed India's contention and sought a World Bank intervention.


Zakaria said said the Kashmir dispute was a "bone of contention between Pakistan and India" and urged the international community to "play its role" in resolving the issue.

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