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Indus Water Treaty

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 24 Jan 2017 11:22


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 24 Jan 2017 16:11

he is saying chinese occupied kashmir ..vow.. i like it.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby AlphaSierra » 25 Jan 2017 13:00

chetak wrote:
manjgu wrote:chetak..let me tell u about 'contribute' foolishly aspect..UN posting is very very eagerly sought after in IA... it has helped many build their house..marry their daughters...cater to childrens education....


I am fully aware of all this.

I speak in terms of the country and not the IA/soldier per se.

The country should not be so eagerly running behind such low level house keeping chores, as it were. Let someone else do it. The IA is over qualified for this.

Our IA can certainly be better utilized and indeed better showcased in doing more important things, if at all and not engaging in such menial tasks simply because the "need" is there. It is certainly not our need and we have gained nothing from all the years that we have done this. These tasks are low-grade, low-status and we have not managed to get much national ROI that we could use.

The UN will of course extoll our role because they do not get as much "peace keeping" troops as they need. We have been enmeshed, rightly or wrongly, in some unsavory scandals that has resulted in the international denigration of our troops. This is unacceptable. Our soldiers serve with honor and surely, they deserve better.

I merely said exit the peace keeping part. Which law says that we HAVE to contribute troops for this purpose??

From what I have read, every member nation has to contribute a certain amount towards the budget of UN ( based on it's GDP, size etc). Since we don't like to pay in cash, we pay it in kind by contributing men ( human lives are cheap here as compared to other developed nations).. Hence, it is our choice and need to send troops for peacekeeping.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 26 Jan 2017 00:30

AlphaSierra wrote:
chetak wrote:
I am fully aware of all this.

I speak in terms of the country and not the IA/soldier per se.

The country should not be so eagerly running behind such low level house keeping chores, as it were. Let someone else do it. The IA is over qualified for this.

Our IA can certainly be better utilized and indeed better showcased in doing more important things, if at all and not engaging in such menial tasks simply because the "need" is there. It is certainly not our need and we have gained nothing from all the years that we have done this. These tasks are low-grade, low-status and we have not managed to get much national ROI that we could use.

The UN will of course extoll our role because they do not get as much "peace keeping" troops as they need. We have been enmeshed, rightly or wrongly, in some unsavory scandals that has resulted in the international denigration of our troops. This is unacceptable. Our soldiers serve with honor and surely, they deserve better.

I merely said exit the peace keeping part. Which law says that we HAVE to contribute troops for this purpose??

From what I have read, every member nation has to contribute a certain amount towards the budget of UN ( based on it's GDP, size etc). Since we don't like to pay in cash, we pay it in kind by contributing men ( human lives are cheap here as compared to other developed nations).. Hence, it is our choice and need to send troops for peacekeeping.



THEY pay our troops for peacekeeping.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 27 Jan 2017 20:14

Indus waters that flow into Pakistan as waste will be brought to Punjab: Modi - PTI
Mr. Modi referred to the politically sensitive issue of the Sutlej Yamuna Canal, saying Punjab had the right to use water for irrigation. Waters from the Indus river that flow into Pakistan as waste would be brought to Punjab.

(Haryana and Punjab are locked in a bitter legal and emotional battle over the issue for the past several years).

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 28 Jan 2017 02:23


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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 02 Feb 2017 18:58

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Indus Water Treaty's survival appears weak: UN report

ISLAMABAD: The 40-year-old Indus Water Treaty between India and Pakistan has been an outstanding example of conflict resolution but scarcity of water in the basin states since the early 1990s has brought the agreement under strain and its "survival appears weak", according to a UN report.

"The treaty fails to address two issues: the division of shortages in dry years between India and Pakistan, when flows are almost half as compared to wet years, and the cumulative impact of storage impact of storages on the flows of the River Chenab into Pakistan," said the UNDP report titled 'Development Advocate Pakistan'.

Wular Barrage and Kishenganga project on the Jhelum and Neelum rivers present a similar problem whereby water storage during the Rabi season is critical as flows are almost one-fifth of the Kharif season, according the report, which was released yesterday.

it said. "For over 40 years, the Indus Water Treaty has proved to be an outstanding example of conflict resolution. An increase in water stress in the basin states since the early 90s has brought the Treaty under strain. In fact, its survival appears weak, although there is no exit clause,"

The report said that Pakistan has gone as far as calling the treaty an inefficient forum for resolving water issues, elevating the water issue to a "core issue" and including it in the composite dialogue. But India has refused to include the issue in the composite dialogue because it is not ready to discard the treaty.

The treaty permitted India to create storages on the western rivers of 1.25, 1.60 and 0.75 million acre feet (MAF) for general, power and flood storages, respectively, amounting to a total permissible storage of 3.6 MAF.

"A clear ambiguity in the treaty occurs in its permission to be interpreted differently, thereby creating conflicts between Pakistan and India. The treaty also fails to clearly address India's share of shortages in relation to storage dams on the western rivers, an issue of major concern," according to the report.

As a consequence of climate change, shrinking glaciers and changing precipitation patterns render the need to address issues of water scarcity and resources, it said.

"During floods, for example, majority of the water runs into the rivers of Indus-Pakistan which leaves the province of Sindh flooded. Such negative setbacks on the economy will eventually have dire consequences if not addressed," the report warned.

It said that with control of the River Chenab through the Salal dam, India has several plans under way for development of hydropower with enhanced water storage on the western river.

Pakistan continues to face reduced face reduced flows from the Chenab owing to the recent storage of water in the Baglihar dam.

According to the report, annual flows in the Chenab during wet years have continued to decline since 1958-59 with an increase in droughts since 1937-38.

"Same is the case with the River Jhelum being controlled by India. Since the river is a major source of irrigation and hydropower for Pakistan, it will pose dire impacts for the country if India chooses to close the gates of the barrage," the report said.

The report said that although the treaty limits Pakistan to prohibit construction of hydropower dams by India, it does however, grant the right to voice issues regarding the developing strategy concerning the storage of water during dry periods.

Awareness regarding trans-boundary water issues is a recent phenomenon and systematic studies are needed, the report said.

The report said that Pakistan's negligence in conducting a "sound analysis" of trans-boundary water issues and delays in presenting the cases of dispute with India to the Indus Water Commission or the World Bank have caused the issue to linger on.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 05 Feb 2017 17:42

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Neelum-Jhelum

Capital suggestion

The Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric Project is a 28-year long story of gross incompetence and rampant corruption. This is also the story of Pakistan gross incompetence and rampant corruption. For the record, we have been working on the Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric Plant for the past 28 years. For the record, the Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric Plant’s total life is 30 years. Imagine: the ‘construction span almost equals the plant’s total life’.

PM Benazir Bhutto from December 1988 to August 1990: The project was approved on December 31, 1989 by the Executive Committee of the National Economic Council (ECNEC). The original PC-1 cost of the 969 MW power plant stood at Rs18 billion.

PM Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi from August 1990 to November 1990: Benazir Bhutto was dismissed on charges of ‘corruption and incompetence’ by the then president Ghulam Ishaq Khan and Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi was appointed prime minister.

PM Nawaz Sharif from November 1990 to April 1993: The Islami Jamhoori Itteha (IJI), comprising nine political parties led by the Pakistan Muslim League and funded by the ISI, collectively polled 7.9 million votes. Nawaz Sharif’s focus remained the privatisation of nationalised entities and liberalisation of currency controls. Sharif had promised to ‘reduce government corruption’ but the Cooperatives Societies scandal did become quite public.

PM Balakh Sher Mazari from April 1993 to May 1993: The then president Ghulam Ishaq Khan dismissed the government and appointed Balakh Sher Mazari as the caretaker prime minister.

PM Moeen Qureshi from July 1993 to October 1993: An economist by training and a one-time senior vice president of the World Bank was made the acting prime minister. During his three-month tenure, he published a list of taxpayers, campaigned against tax evaders and loan defaulters, worked towards an autonomous State Bank, and a more independent PTV and Radio Pakistan. He also devalued the currency.

Fast forward to General Pervez Musharraf from October 1999 to August 2008: In 2002, ECNEC revised the PC-1 cost from Rs18 billion to Rs84 billion with 2008 as the scheduled date of completion.

PM Shaukat Aziz from August 2004 to November 2007: Shaukat Aziz awarded the contract to Gezhouba Group of China (on May 29, 2015, the World Bank announced the “debarment of Gezhouba for a period of 18 months” and sent a letter of reprimand).

PM Yousaf Raza Gilani from March 2008 to June 2012: Gilani, concerned about the spiralling cost, reconstituted the board of directors of the Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Company.

PM Nawaz Sharif from June 2013 to present: On July 3, 2013, ECNEC revised the PC-1 cost from Rs84 billion to Rs274 billion. On March 30, 2015, the board of directors, under the directions of the minister for finance, “approved the revised PC-1 amounting to Rs414 billion”.

We started from Rs18 billion and have so far spent around Rs500 billion and the project is yet not complete. At Rs500 billion it is more than $5 million per MW when countries around us are doing the same at under $2 million per MW. Who would really be able to afford the electricity produced by Neelum-Jhelum?

Yes, NAB claims that it has “initiated an inquiry”. And yes, there are other projects like the Nandipur Power Project and the new Islamabad Airport.To be certain, not all of it is corruption. The Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric Project is a 28-year long story of gross incompetence and rampant corruption. And that, unfortunately, is also the story of Pakistan.
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 05 Feb 2017 18:53

Peregrine wrote:Neelum-Jhelum

Capital suggestion

We started from Rs18 billion and have so far spent around Rs500 billion and the project is yet not complete. At Rs500 billion it is more than $5 million per MW when countries around us are doing the same at under $2 million per MW. Who would really be able to afford the electricity produced by Neelum-Jhelum?

The real question that the author failed to ask was "Why was this project started in the first place?". The answer to that question would also answer the question whether Pakistanis would be able to afford the electricity produced by NJHEP.

Kashmir is the jugular vein, it is the unfinished agenda of the Partition, India is a mortal enemy with which a thousand-year war has to be fought. The whole effort is therefore to thwart India from using its lawful allocation of water, drag it to the CoA and hope for fortuitous gains (because it has nothing to lose), paint it black as a violator of treaties, whip-up anti-India feelings, maintain an enduring hostility, cry foul for everything and generally keep India off-balance all the time and make it waste its efforts in non-productive litigation.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 05 Feb 2017 20:24

SSridhar... something was supposed to happen on IWT front by end of Jan ( wether its a NE or CoA) ..what happened?

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 06 Feb 2017 03:08

Peregrine wrote:Neelum-Jhelum

We started from Rs18 billion and have so far spent around Rs500 billion and the project is yet not complete. At Rs500 billion it is more than $5 million per MW when countries around us are doing the same at under $2 million per MW. Who would really be able to afford the electricity produced by Neelum-Jhelum?
SSridhar wrote:The real question that the author failed to ask was "Why was this project started in the first place?". The answer to that question would also answer the question whether Pakistanis would be able to afford the electricity produced by NJHEP.

Kashmir is the jugular vein, it is the unfinished agenda of the Partition, India is a mortal enemy with which a thousand-year war has to be fought. The whole effort is therefore to thwart India from using its lawful allocation of water, drag it to the CoA and hope for fortuitous gains (because it has nothing to lose), paint it black as a violator of treaties, whip-up anti-India feelings, maintain an enduring hostility, cry foul for everything and generally keep India off-balance all the time and make it waste its efforts in non-productive litigation.
SSridhar Ji :

The NJ Project Generates Three Times the Electricity as the KHEP. The KHEP will cost around US$ 900 Million where as the NJP should cost possibly Six Times.

That is the Cost-Differential to provide for "Skimming" by the Cwapistani Army, Bureaucrats, Politicians and most importantly the Chinese "no competition" Clause!

Cwapistani "ill will" for India is the Raison D''être of its existance as if it drops its "ill will" then there is no reason for having a Cwpistan in the first place!

We shall Overcome!

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 06 Feb 2017 04:47

manjgu wrote:SSridhar... something was supposed to happen on IWT front by end of Jan ( wether its a NE or CoA) ..what happened?

No news yet. May be in the next couple of weeks.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 06 Feb 2017 16:19

X Posted on the STFUP Thread

Pak-India talks on cards to end stalemate on dams

ISLAMABAD: With a view to end the ongoing stalemate between two nuclear countries over resolution of hydropower issues, the World Bank has stepped up its efforts to soon arrange a meeting between Pakistan and India at secretary level for developing consensus in the light of Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) on mechanism for resolution of ‘faulty designs’ of 300MW Kishenganga and 850MW Ratle hydropower projects.

Well-placed sources told The News that the World Bank wants both the countries to develop consensus either on mechanism of neutral expert or court of arbitration mentioned in the IWT for the resolution of issues pertaining to the said projects. And in case of failure, both the countries need to develop agreement on the middle way to resolve issues.

However, sources said if a secretary of water and power level meeting was held between both the countries, the representatives of World Bank would also be the part of the meeting and they would try to persuade both the parties to reach consensuses to any of the mechanisms or find out a middle way.

Pakistan wants the World Bank to constitute a court of arbitration (CoA) to resolve the disputes, but India wants the solution through the mechanism of neutral experts which is why the World Bank announced ‘pause’ on December 12, 2016 till the agreement on procedure or mechanism between the parties to the dispute -- Pakistan and India.

This was done by World Bank to safeguard the IWT, since referring the matter simultaneously to the processes sought by each of the parties risked contradictory outcomes and worked against the spirit of goodwill and friendship that underpins the Treaty. The World Bank is assisting the two parties in reaching an agreement on the process for resolving the issue of the two hydroelectric power projects. More generally, it is also working with them on how to ensure that the Treaty remains an effective tool to manage the use of Indus basin rivers.

Pakistan had raised objections on the technical designs of both the projects being built by India; one on Chenab and other one on Jhelum river, arguing the designs are not in line with the provisions of the IWT and both projects with the existing designs are detrimental to water interest of Pakistan. The authorities of Pakistan after exhausting every endeavour mentioned in the Treaty had moved the World Bank some months back seeking the solution of water disputes.

Under the IWT 1960, World Bank, the broker of the Treaty, is not allowed to pick up any procedure of the two enshrined in the Treaty on its own to resolve issue or dispute unless parties to the dispute agree on one mechanism of the two that include the constitution of neutral expert and court of arbitration.
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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 16 Feb 2017 02:35

Neelum-Jhelum hydropower project will be operational next year: WAPDA chairman

ISLAMABAD: Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower project will be ready for inauguration in February 2018, Water & Power Development Authority (Wapda) chairman informed Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Wednesday.

In a briefing at the Prime Minister’s House in Islamabad, Lt-Gen (retd) Muzammil Hussain, the newly-appointed chairman, briefed the prime minister regarding various ongoing water and power projects in the country, a statement said. PM Nawaz had earlier tasked the Wapda chairman to speed up execution of the crucially significant hydro power projects.

“Neelum Jhelum hydroelectric project will be ready for inauguration on February 28, 2018. The left tunnel connection of the project was completed in October 23, 2016 while the right tunnel connection will be completed by April 30, 2017,” the communiqué quoted the chairman as saying.

The premier was further briefed that the project’s dry test is scheduled for December 2017 while the wet test will be conducted by February 01 of the next year by generating electricity. “The second unit of Neelum-Jhelum will be operational by March 15, 2018 while the 3rd and 4th unit by April 15, 2018,” the Wapda chairman said, adding upon completion the project will earn $15 million in revenue for generating power.

During the briefing, the chairman said speedy execution was underway on the Kachhi Canal project and upon its completion in August this year it will provide irrigation water to an area of 72,000 acres in Balochistan’s Dera Bugti district. “A total of 9, 917 acres of land acquisition will be completed by May 2017 for the 2, 160MW Dasu hydro power project,” the chairman said, adding ground breaking of main works on $4,300 million Dasu project will be performed in June 2017.

Regarding Golen Gol Hydropower Project, the Wapda chairman said it will produce electricity three times more than the requirements of Chitral district in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa. “This run of the river project is located on Golen Gol Nullah, a majority tributary of Mastuj River. The project will have a 3.8km long tunnel with an installed capacity of 108MW to be completed with a cost of Rs29.077 billion by December 2017,” he said.

Background of Neelum-Jhelum project

Wapda, tasked with building dams to ensure water and food security, has lately come under a lot of criticism for poor design of the Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric Power Project. New dams are critical to stave off floods that Pakistan has been facing for the past several years. The deluge has caused loss of human lives and damaged agricultural crops.

Initially, its estimated cost in 1989 was Rs15.2 billion that jumped up to Rs420 billion later. The project has been designed in an effort to secure water rights over Neelum as India is constructing Kishanganga Dam upstream.

Wapda authorities acknowledge that the project was not properly planned from the beginning as realistic financial and geographical surveys were not reflected in the original project cycle. The poor design necessitated mid-course changes in the dam structure, hydraulic structures, cross-section of the Head Race Tunnel and tunneling methodology. Vague estimates and engineering surveys along with some force majeure like rock burst and water seepage below and above the tunnel were also the reasons behind the delay.
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 02 Mar 2017 10:43

Indus Waters Treaty: India, Pakistan to resume talks by month-end - Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury, Economic Times
India and Pakistan are set to revive the dialogue for implementation of the Indus Waters Treaty at the end of this month by holding a meeting in Pakistan, after it was suspended by India in September last year in the wake of the terrorist attack on the army camp in Uri.

This will provide an opportunity for a thaw in bilateral ties and potentially pave the way for a meeting of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his counterpart Nawaz Sharif in Kazakhstan on June 7 & 8 on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation Summit, people familiar with the matter said.


The upcoming meeting of the Permanent Indus Commission, the 113th since it was established 56 years ago, will see both sides pick up from where they left at the last meeting in 2016. The agenda of the meeting will be decided by the host Pakistan as per the norms, said one of the persons, who did not wish to be identified.

A meeting of the commission is scheduled during every financial year, an official said, pointing out that the 112th meeting happened in 2015-16 and the upcoming meeting will be held before 2016-17 ends. Modi had said last year, after India suspended the meeting, that water and blood cannot flow together.

According to Article VIII of the Indus Waters Treaty, the commission must meet once a year, alternately in India and Pakistan. The Permanent Indus Commission, comprising officials and experts from India and Pakistan, was created to implement the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty. The commission maintains and exchanges data, and facilitates cooperation between the two countries.

Earlier this month, a United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) report had blamed Pakistan for neglecting to resolve trans-border water issues and delaying presentation of cases of dispute with India to the commission. The report nonetheless hailed the Indus Waters Treaty as an outstanding example of conflict resolution.

A lasting rapprochement between India and Pakistan will, however, depend on whether Pakistan stops promoting terrorism against India. The Modi government has made it clear that Pakistan requires to make a fundamental shift in this regard.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 03 Mar 2017 09:00

India to attend Lahore meet on Indus Waters Treaty - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
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Signalling a major shift in its position on talks with Pakistan on the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT), India has accepted an invitation to attend the next meeting of the Permanent Indus Commission (PIC) to be held in Lahore in March, various sources confirmed to The Hindu .

According to officials privy to the development, the move came after two months of diplomatic negotiations, with World Bank officials playing mediator in encouraging Pakistan to extend the invitation and for India to accept. The news closely follows the visit of World Bank Chief Executive Officer Kristalina Georgieva to Delhi where she met with Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley, weeks after her visit in January to Islamabad, where she met Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Officials acknowledged that the holding of the next annual round of the PIC, which was last held in July 2016 was a “positive” sign, given that India had announced it was “suspending” the talks after the Uri attacks in September.

According to senior government officials at the time, the decision to suspend the talks had been taken when Prime Minister Narendra Modi held a meeting with key officials, including National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar, to “review” the IWT.

At the time, tensions with Pakistan were high, as the government considered all retaliatory measures after the Army camp attack in which 19 soldiers were killed.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 03 Mar 2017 09:39

It remains to be seen if it is indeed a "major" shift in the Indian policy or simply a polite and meaningless accommodation of the world bank.

jehadi Suhasini Haidar and The Hindu's misleading and paki pasand headline notwithstanding.

They make it sound as though India has cravenly capitulated under gora pressure and has been dragged by the hair to the negotiating table.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 04 Mar 2017 17:59


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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 04 Mar 2017 18:00

nothing is going to happen at the IWT meeting.. chai biskoot and back to paki randi rona..

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 04 Mar 2017 18:28

manjgu wrote:nothing is going to happen at the IWT meeting.. chai biskoot and back to paki randi rona..


it's purely a technical discussion onlee. :wink:

Hope the pakis don't snore too loudly, especially after a gooooood breakfast & lunch.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 04 Mar 2017 23:26

http://zeenews.india.com/india/ahead-of ... 83389.html
Ahead of Indus water talks with Pak, India restarts stalled Shahpur Kandi dam project

New Delhi: The Centre has persuaded Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir to resume work on the stalled Shahpur Kandi dam project, which comes under the Indus Water Treaty, thus helping India utilise its rights on eastern rivers of the basin.The work on the hydroelectricity project, which was stalled after a dispute between Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir over its design, will "resume soon", an official statement said.Punjab's Secretary (Irrigation) KS Pannu and his Jammu and Kashmir counterpart Saurabh Bhagat had signed the pact in this regard in the presence of Union Water Resources, Secretary Amarjit Singh here last evening, it said.The two states reached the understanding even as the Permanent Indus Commission is expected to meet later this month to discuss various issues related to the Indus Water Treaty (IWT).India had last year decided to suspend talks with Pakistan over the treaty in the wake of Uri terror attack.
The NDA government at the Centre had also decided to exercise India's rights under the treaty by increasing use of the basin river waters. India has under-utilised its share of the river water until now."It was unanimously agreed that the work on the Shahpur Kandi dam would resume soon after both the governments (of Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir) formally approve the agreed decisions," the statement said.The construction of Shahpur Kandi project, located in Punjab's Gurdaspur, was taken up in May 1999. It, however, was discontinued in 2014 following dispute between the two states.The project, tagged as a "national project" by the Centre, is being built with an estimated cost of Rs 2,285.81 crore (as per April, 2008 price level). It is expected to generate 206 mega watt electricity, the statement said.The project will continue to be implemented by Punjab and its design shall be as agreed by both the states recently."...Model studies will be carried out concurrently to ensure Jammu and Kashmir gets its mandated share of 1,150 cusecs of water," it said.It has also been decided to form a team comprising Central Water Commission member and chief engineers of the two states to check whether the construction is in line with the agreement.Among other decisions, it was decided that Punjab will bear the balance costs on account of compensation for land acquisition in respect of Thein dam, located nearly 10 km upstream of the Shahpur Kandi dam."Punjab would also share with Jammu and Kashmir 20 per cent of the total power generated at Thein dam at the mutually agreed rate of Rs 3.50 per unit immediately. This is subject to confirmation of the rates by the Central Electricity Regulatory Commission (though)," it said.Both the states also agreed that other issues will be referred to arbitration mechanism provided in the agreement signed between the states in 1979, without affecting the progress of work.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 05 Mar 2017 07:03

manjgu wrote:nothing is going to happen at the IWT meeting.. chai biskoot and back to paki randi rona..

Yes, and Pakistanis would go back to the WB with a request for CoA.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 05 Mar 2017 07:36

Shahpur Kandi
206 MW
6 x 33 MW & 1 x 8 MW

32°23'28.24"N 75°40'52.37"E

Ranjit Sagar is upstream, Madhopur Headworks is downstream.
Madhopur headworks, being given to India at partition causes major heartburn to Pakistan

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 05 Mar 2017 10:40

Keeping IWT Talks Alive
http://nation.com.pk/editorials/05-Mar- ... alks-alive
Regardless of the general air of acrimony between the two states – this was never likely to go away so easily in the first place – the meeting of the Indus commission is vital.The Indus Water Treaty (IWT) has been hailed as an example of bilateral dispute resolution, having survived two full-fledged wars and several crises, and the meeting of the commission despite bad relations is a testament to that.However the meeting needs to be more than a hollow testament – it needs to genuinely try to address the conflict regarding the treaty.While one hopes this is the intention with which the two delegations meet India’s statements on the matter leave a lot to be desired.Choosing to attend the meeting simply to not fall foul of the requirements in the treaty doesn’t seem to be an encouraging position to take before the meeting.Considering Narendra Modi’s threats to “cut of Pakistan’s water supply” – a gross violation of the treaty and an international crime – it is imperative that the Indian government displays an air of conciliation and reasonableness.While the major sticking points, Ratle and Kishanganga dams, remain off the table – as Pakistan has already approached the World Bank on the matter – several other issues still remain unresolved.It is hoped that the meeting can set aside the political machismo projected by both governments and work for the benefit of the people of the Sub-Continent.Because whether Pakistan and India choose to acknowledge it or not, water scarcity is the biggest threat the Sub-Continent faces, bigger than an outbreak of a bilateral war.What is more, a serious dispute over water sharing is more likely to result in such a conflict than problems over terrorism and Kashmir ever could.
Political tussles aside, the IWT should remain sacred, as a matter of humanity, as it provides life giving water to millions either side of the border, and must be treated as such.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 05 Mar 2017 11:26

Prem wrote:Keeping IWT Talks Alive
http://nation.com.pk/editorials/05-Mar- ... alks-alive
Regardless of the general air of acrimony between the two states – this was never likely to go away so easily in the first place – the meeting of the Indus commission is vital.The Indus Water Treaty (IWT) has been hailed as an example of bilateral dispute resolution, having survived two full-fledged wars and several crises, and the meeting of the commission despite bad relations is a testament to that.However the meeting needs to be more than a hollow testament – it needs to genuinely try to address the conflict regarding the treaty.While one hopes this is the intention with which the two delegations meet India’s statements on the matter leave a lot to be desired.Choosing to attend the meeting simply to not fall foul of the requirements in the treaty doesn’t seem to be an encouraging position to take before the meeting.Considering Narendra Modi’s threats to “cut of Pakistan’s water supply” – a gross violation of the treaty and an international crime – it is imperative that the Indian government displays an air of conciliation and reasonableness.While the major sticking points, Ratle and Kishanganga dams, remain off the table – as Pakistan has already approached the World Bank on the matter – several other issues still remain unresolved.It is hoped that the meeting can set aside the political machismo projected by both governments and work for the benefit of the people of the Sub-Continent.Because whether Pakistan and India choose to acknowledge it or not, water scarcity is the biggest threat the Sub-Continent faces, bigger than an outbreak of a bilateral war.What is more, a serious dispute over water sharing is more likely to result in such a conflict than problems over terrorism and Kashmir ever could.
Political tussles aside, the IWT should remain sacred, as a matter of humanity, as it provides life giving water to millions either side of the border, and must be treated as such.



Is terrorism also "sacred" to the pakis as a matter of "humanity"??

Killing Indians seems to be their sole purpose in life and when existentially threatened, perhaps for the first time in their miserable islamic lives, they crap out of sheer fear??

Go Modi, Go!!!

and get the b@$#(*&s

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 05 Mar 2017 15:43

Pakistan acting as 'crying wolf': Defence experts on Permanent Indus Commission meet

Pakistan acting as 'crying wolf': Defence experts on Permanent Indus Commission meet

Friday, March 3, 2017

New Delhi: With India all set to attend the meeting of the Permanent Indus Commission in Lahore, defence experts today said New Delhi will utilize the entire legitimate part of the rivers falling under the treaty and added that Pakistan, which has been acting as a crying wolf, should discuss the issue bilaterally.


Defence Expert Major General (Retd.) P.K. Sehgal said the treaty allows India to use 19.8 percent water of the western rivers.

"Prime Minister Narendra Modi has categorically made a statement that we will use that water irrespective of whatever may be the consequences.

Pakistan has been acting as a crying wolf and has been going to the United Nations and elsewhere to seek arbitration," Major General (Retd.) Sehgal told ANI.

"India is giving a message loud and clear that we are keen to discuss everything that is part of the treaty and we do not want to do anything which is illegitimate and which is not indicated in the treaty," he added.

He emphasized that there are built in methods to deal with any dispute but Pakistan wants to go beyond that.

"We can bilaterally discuss it because we are going to use only what is the legitimate right of ours as per the treaty, which we have so far not used," he added.

Echoing similar sentiments, another defence expert Sunil Deshpande said India has realized that it should utilize the assigned amount of water of the Indus River and must take advantage of the liberty which the treaty has provided.

"This particular issue must be raised properly in the meeting and we must utilize the water which we are authorized to," Deshpande said.Flying Officer Shivali Deshpande on her part said that India should take a firm decision and make an attempt to utilize the water which is in its share.

"India has not been so far using the authorized water, but now the government is planning to utilize the water which is on India`s side," she asserted.India will be participating in the meeting of Permanent Indus Commission held in Lahore later this month.

Sources said Pakistan forwarded the invitation to India to resolve the Indus Water Treaty (IWT).

As per the provisions in the treaty, India can use only 20 percent of the total water carried by the Indus River.

The Indus Waters Treaty 1960 is seen as one of the most successful international treaties and has withstood frequent tensions between India and Pakistan, including conflict.

The development comes after the relations between the two nuclear-armed nations plummeted following the Pathankot terror attack that took place in January last year.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby ragupta » 05 Mar 2017 20:31

Does TSP honor all treaty with India. Do they honor Shimla Agreement, if not why India should honor any treatment with TSP.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 05 Mar 2017 21:02

ragupta wrote:Does TSP honor all treaty with India. Do they honor Shimla Agreement, if not why India should honor any treatment with TSP.


Once the terror strikes started, all bets should have been off.

The congis, lootyens brigade and the commie gang of criminals all
pushed for "good" relations with the pakis and they all benefitted with US visas, US and paki largesse and what not.

We are not obligated to follow any treaty with the pakis, least of all the IWT until our people are safe.

Modi is the only one to play such hardball and still maintain good relationships with the other powers.

Suddenly, India has less to lose and the others have much more to lose.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 06 Mar 2017 11:05

This is IWT thread, not CPEC. Have removed irrelevant posts.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 08 Mar 2017 20:12

Pakistan, India to discuss Indus Waters Treaty on March 20

LAHORE: Pakistan has formally conveyed a message about a two-day meeting of the Indus Waters Commission scheduled to start from March 20 to India to discuss the bilateral water issues, officials said on Tuesday.

“We are expecting a confirmation from the Indian Indus Waters Commission today (Tuesday),” a senior official told The News. The official added that the Indian delegation, led by its Indus Waters Commissioner, is expected to arrive in Lahore on March 19 for the two-day talks on various aspects of the Indus Waters Treaty and will leave on March 22.

The annual meeting of Indian and Pakistani delegations is mandatory at least once in a year. However, it could not be held for around one-and-half year in the wake of a terrorist attack in Uri in held Kashmir.

It is expected that around 10-member delegation from the Indian side will take part during the meeting of the permanent Indus Commission. On the meeting agenda, the official said there will be a discussion on the hydropower projects, such as Pakal Dul, Lower Kalnai and Miyar, which are being built by India on the Chenab River.

Pakistan has raised objections over the designs and other features of the projects. However, these issues could not be discussed earlier owing to a lack of regular meetings, he added. “Now, we plan to raise these objections in detail.”

There will also be a discussion on the modalities of a proposed visit to the site of Kishanganga hydropower project. The official said visits are important because they help in getting on-the-ground information about the physical progress of a certain project as per its design. However, there will be no discussion on Ratle and Kishanganga hydropower projects being constructed in the held Kashmir in violation of Indus Waters Treaty, added the official. Pakistan has already lodged its protest over the two power projects with the World Bank, but these cases would separately be pursued.

The official said the meeting will also discuss the issues related to the data exchange. “We will stress on regular data exchange as smooth sharing of information about water use and flows are indispensable for the implementation of Indus Waters Treaty.” Moreover, Pakistan will also emphasise the implementation of a tour of inspection for regular visits of various under-construction and completed sites.
Cheers Image

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby anupmisra » 09 Mar 2017 02:02



Sounds like the meeting is being held so that the pakis can complain, bellyache, rant, rave, protest, point fingers and threaten. All the while serving tea and cookies to the Indian delegation.

I propose that the Indians start by asking this question, right off the bat - So! What is the current, verifiable population of pakistan?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 09 Mar 2017 02:27

Peregrine wrote:
Pakistan, India to discuss Indus Waters Treaty on March 20



IWT= Indian Watering TSP or India Whack TSP?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Rishirishi » 09 Mar 2017 04:56

Interesting viewpoint from Najam Sethi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrJn6h42pk

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 09 Mar 2017 06:29

This link will work in N America
Jihadi Sethi is becoming a 400% Paki mulla haramzada.
He is openly justifying the use of terrorism, just so that the ISI masters in Pindi and isloo will be happy and leave his corruption in Cricket alone

https://youtu.be/b3IBqopOiuE

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 09 Mar 2017 08:24

Though Najam Sethi is no longer the Editor of Daily Times, I have been observing a dramatic change in the Editorials of that newspaper. It has become very shrill against India, to the point of openly justifying terrorism, within the last year or so. I am reminded of a few Pakis colleagues who would exhibit a swagger and bravado as soon as a bit of a positive news came from the La La Land, such as a win in a cricket or hockey match or a statement of support by the US etc. It may be that the CPEC and the worsening India-China relationship are pumping up energy levels of Sethi & Co.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Kashi » 09 Mar 2017 08:36

SSridhar wrote:Though Najam Sethi is no longer the Editor of Daily Times, I have been observing a dramatic change in the Editorials of that newspaper. It has become very shrill against India, to the point of openly justifying terrorism, within the last year or so. I am reminded of a few Pakis colleagues who would exhibit a swagger and bravado as soon as a bit of a positive news came from the La La Land, such as a win in a cricket or hockey match or a statement of support by the US etc. It may be that the CPEC and the worsening India-China relationship are pumping up energy levels of Sethi & Co.


I agree. But I feel the shift has been palpable for a while, ever since Sethi had to go into a self-imposed exile a few years ago and then he allied himself with the establishment, the sophisticated veneer has peeled off his so-called analysis (This was most evident when he was ranting about hosting PSL in Lahore and how they were facing visa problems etc.). Do recall that he was the care-taker CM of Pakjab and is heading the PSL, all of which require him to closely work with and kowtow to the boys.

I have noted that TFT like most Paki rags devotes a lot of webpages and probably print space to India and how India is refusing to talk to Pakistan on any matters and appeared to have stopped taking Pakistan seriously. He like most other Pakistani elite fear irrelevance and Indian indifference most of all. You are probably right that CPEC and the present state of Indo-China relations (are they really much worse than what we have had for the past decade or so?) may have given them a false sense of bravado.

But they also seem to be dismayed and deeply pained by any positive news that comes out of India- from cricket to ISRO. Especially if it involves their Ummaah biraathers. Sethi exhibits the same constipated pained Paki countenance every time he comes on TV.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 09 Mar 2017 09:38

More on this in the usual thread. Not here.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 09 Mar 2017 20:04

India needs to start building Nimoo Bazgo on the Indus ASAP.
The electricity supply in the indus valley in the himalayas with all the towns and defence installations will be much improved. The electricity infrastructure all along the Indus, from near Kargil to Leh to near the LAC has got to be improved.
Some areas are still burning precious diesel fuel to generate electricity at night

Either solar during the day has to be increased largescale, but dams directly on the Indus are needed now

Kashiji very nice summary. My thoughts exactly.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 09 Mar 2017 20:28

sorry..but what did Hajam Sethi say wrong? he just articulated the pakistan policy very honestly and clearly !! ie use of terror as an instrument of state policy. whats the surprise?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gagan » 10 Mar 2017 01:17

The surprise is someone as prominent as Hajam Sethi, who frequently travels to India, begging for cricket matches with us, openly justifies the use of terrorism against India.
The guy was an acting Governor of Pakistani Punjab. This language is just not done.

In private, everyone knows what the Pakistanis continue to do - sponsor terrorism against all their neighbours.


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