Indus Water Treaty

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Bart S
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Bart S » 08 Dec 2018 18:49

^ Looks like this Paki moron swallowed a thesaurus

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 Dec 2018 20:51

Whatever..... I don’t normally stoop this low, but perhaps their Arab brothers can ship them some camel urine.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 09 Dec 2018 22:11

Water levels drop by 30% in Indus Basin - Rina Saeed Khan

KATOWICE: In the last 50 years, water level has decreased by 20-30% in the Indus River Basin, according to a research presented by the Institute for Environmental Diplomacy and Security at the United Nations Climate Change Conference 2018 (COP24) currently under way in Katowice, Poland.

The decrease is likely to affect both hydropower generation and food security and impact Pakistan’s GDP according to experts on a panel organised to present integrated community-centric models of early warning systems.

Experts further suggested farmers will need information on how to diversify their crops and how much water is available in the years to come

“This study of the Indus Basin is relevant to us and we welcome the research. We are going to start pilot projects on the ground that will focus on climate resilient agriculture,” said Adviser to the PM on Climate Change, Malik Amin Aslam who was invited to be on the panel to discuss Pakistan’s food-energy-water security challenges and adaptation to climate change.

“We are one of the ‘continuous affectees’ of climate change since the last 20 years and we are fourth in terms of the number of climate triggered events and second in terms of the total climate losses amounting to as much as $3,826 million,” the adviser informed the panel, adding this means a heavy strain on the country’s economy is money being diverted from health and education to be spent on climate related disasters.

Aslam further said Pakistan receives a lot of water as it is at the base of the third pole with glaciers on top. “However, only 9% of the water is saved and climate change will compound the loss further.”

The adviser also said the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) government would be shifting to renewable energy and investing in wind and solar energy. “We need better early warning systems for farmers,” he pointed out.

Earlier at an event organised by the WWF-International on national adaptation plans, the climate change adviser spoke of an innovative project that will use floodwater to restore ecosystems in Pakistan. The project, which will be implemented with the help of WWF-Pakistan, will restore wetlands and recharge groundwater.

“We currently have a million tube-wells sucking out all the water in the country. We hope to get funding from the Green Climate Fund and this project is one of our government’s priorities,” he said, adding that a similar project on the Yangtze River in China is saving a vast amount of water.

He added the WWF had been a good partner for Pakistan as they had also audited the “Billion Tree Tsunami Afforestation Project” (BTTAP), making it the first time a government project had been independently audited.

The BTTAP was registered under the international Bonn Challenge and was the first sub-national entity to achieve its targets of afforestation. “We didn’t think we could achieve the one billion tree target, but found that with the help of local communities and the assisted natural regeneration of forests in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P) was a big factor as nature helped us.

“When you work with nature, it gives you a solution,” said Aslam, adding that the PTI government is now planning the nationwide 10 billion tree project.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Katare » 10 Dec 2018 03:47

Gyan wrote:If it's workable then why is Salal Dam dead.


When did salal died? Who said it died?

It’s the biggest of the RofR Hydroelectric power plant in India! I have not seen anything in the media to the effect that it is dead.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Gyan » 10 Dec 2018 09:58

IIRC the average power generation of SALAL DAM is less than 10% which counts as dead

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Katare » 11 Dec 2018 02:49

Salal generated more power last year than any of the RofR plants of NHPC. It also achieved second best load factor of 79%.

Again RofR power plant by nature of design do not get affected in sny meaningful way by silting.

Regular storage type hydro power plant loose their storage capacity and power generation each year due to silting.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 11 Dec 2018 04:13

Katare wrote:Salal generated more power last year than any of the RofR plants of NHPC. It also achieved second best load factor of 79%.

Again RofR power plant by nature of design do not get affected in sny meaningful way by silting.

Regular storage type hydro power plant loose their storage capacity and power generation each year due to silting.
KatareJi :

Salal Dam

Would this be a correct representation of the Salal Dam Situation at present :

Restoration

To meet the terms of the agreement with Pakistan, the reservoir is not provided with low level sluice gates below the level of power intake to flush sediment to the downstream river.[2] It got completely silted and only marginal dead water storage behind the crest gates is left out.[4] The project has become purely a run of river hydro electric station causing reduction in power generation and outages of power station during the floods with high silt load. The reservoir capacity can be restored as permitted by Annexure D (12) of Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) by installing low level tunnel spillway for removing the sediment from the reservoir and prevent further sedimentation in future.[5] The dead storage level can be changed/ lowered up to EL 1365 ft level (without violating the agreement for the Salal Project which says dead storage level shall not be higher than EL 1600 ft) so that the volume of water above the new dead storage level in the reservoir up to maximum reservoir level EL 1621 ft is treated as surcharge storage as per Annexure D (8b) of IWT read with the terms of agreement for the Salal project.[6] The existing diversion tunnel for the dam construction can be restored to serve the sediment transfer purpose or a new tunnel can be connected to the reservoir at EL 1365 ft level by lake tapping method (if needed) which was implemented in Koyna Hydroelectric Project.[7] Additional power generation capacity can also be added to use the available total water flows in the river at low cost.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 11 Dec 2018 20:42


Katare
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Katare » 12 Dec 2018 02:28

How can you be wrong Peregrine saar!

Your link correctly stated that, RoR hydroelectric plants don't have storage so their operations get affected more often than a regular hydroplants which taps water from a huge reservoir on as needed basis. RoR dams are use it or loose it deal. It's not only silting up to dead level but treaty also governs the size of live storage and position of intakes and other gates/spillways.

Once its fully silted up to dead level, you do not have to worry about further silting in to live pondage, since the mid level gates/diversion tunnels take over the desilting operations.

So its far from an ideal situation but these dams/plants are designed and their financial viability determined after discounting for these limitations.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 12 Dec 2018 03:46

^^^^
Katare Ji :

Re : Your Post above - 12 Dec 2018 02:28

Thank you for your kind words.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 18 Jan 2019 21:18

‘Muzaffarabad is running out of water’ - Mubashar Naqvi

A power generation project is destroying the environment in the city, writes Mubashar Naqvi

Image
River Neelum passing through Muzaffarabad city before diversion

Over 6.5 million people living in Muzaffarabad are facing water scarcity due to the diversion of water from Neelum River for power generation through the Neelum Jehlum Hydro Power Project (NJHPP).

The project is part of a hydroelectric power scheme in Pakistan. It has been designed to divert water from Neelum River to a power station on Jhelum River through a tunnel which stretches over 30-kilometres.

When the project was launched, the public was told that about 20 percent of the river’s water would be diverted for power generation. The public was also told that small lakes would be constructed in the lower basin of the river from Nosari to Muzfarabad. However, locals allege that about 90 percent of the river’s water has been diverted for power generation, and the construction of the small lakes remained distant dream.

Neelum River, which is the main source of water for the residents of Muzaffarabad and adjoining areas, has shrunk significantly since the 969 megawatt NJHPP was launched in August 2018.

In 2009, when the Water and Power Development Authority (WAPDA) started work on NJHPP, the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Environmental Protection Agency (AJKEPA) had asked the body to submit an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) of the project as per the provisions of the AJK Environmental Protection Act 2000. However, this EIA was not submitted to the agency although it was mandatory for formal commencement of any project in the region.

Responding to the EPA, two senior WAPDA officials – chief engineer and project director – said that they were not aware of the existence of any such law in AJK. They said no such report had been sought from WAPDA in the past. These officials said their organization had conducted a study on the environmental impact of project and they were satisfied with its findings.

According to Section 11 of AJK EPA 2000, construction of a project must not commence until an initial environmental study was submitted to the agency, which has been tasked to review if the project as an adverse impact on the environment.

Citizens of Muzaffarabad are worried because they believe water in the river is decreasing with every passing day. Water scarcity has also sparked small protests in the city and Kashmiri expats have also voiced their concerns about the situation. Citizens are demanding that the government recognize crisis unfolding in their city and take remedial steps to ensure water supply does not dwindle.

Besides water scarcity, citizens worry about sewage in the city – which is also being linked to the river. Citizens feel that in addition to reduced water flow, the greatest environmental hazard is the accumulation of waste.

The project, which is adding significant power to the national grid, was initially conceptualized in 1989. Construction was supposed to start in 2002 and the project was to be completed in 2008. However, there were some technical problems, including rising costs of construction, which delayed the project. Later, the 2005 earthquake, which destroyed infrastructure in the area, added to this delay. After this calamity, the project was redesigned entirely to conform to more stringent seismic standards.

Work on this began in 2008 after a Chinese consortium was awarded the construction contract in July 2007. It was completed in August 2018 when the fourth and last unit was synchronized with the national grid on August 13, and attained its maximum generation capacity of 969 MW on August 14.

The NJHPP will generate 5,150 gigawatts per year at a tariff of Rs13.50 per unit for 30 years. India’s controversial Kishenganga Dam of 330MW has been constructed on the same tributary of Neelum River.

What will be the future of the capital city of Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), located at the conjunction of Neelum and Jehlum without both of these rivers? Is diversion of the river to the NJHPP main cause of changing ecological patterns? All these questions are being widely discussed in political and social circles. These are the questions on the minds of scholars, traders and other segments of the society.

Besides discussing the environmental impact of the diversion of Neelum River and changes in ecological patterns, the authority of the government on its natural resources and operational methodology of federal institutions in Azad Jammu and Kashmir are also being discussed.

Why WAPDA did not ensure compliance to National Environmental Quality Standards while working on NJHPP, people want to know. Why did WAPDA reject the conditional No Objection Certificate of the EPA that suggested 36 measures related to the protection of the environment? Civil society is also asking why WAPDA did not ensure ecological flow in Neelum river of 25m3/s at Muzaffarabad, even in summer season irrespective of additional inflow downstream from Noseri. Citizens also want know why WAPDA did not take any mitigating measures in accordance with the EIA report and the Environmental Management Plan (EMP), and why was no environmental monitoring committee constituted.

Image
The river after diversion

Talking to The Friday Times, a civil society activist Faisal Jameel Kashmiri said the Neelum River had almost dried up from Nosari to Muzaffarabad due to the diversion of 90 percent of the river’s water to the tunnel from Nosari after inauguration of this project.

“Less water in the river has also affected Mansehra and Upper Jehlum, with rise in temperatures, which is melting glaciers in Kaghan and Ratti Gali,” Faisal said.

Faisal was concerned that this diversion was causing irreparable loss for humans, animals and underwater species and endangering the biodiversity of the river.

Arsalan, a university student, believed that the ecological patterns in the area were changing very quickly due to the disturbance in natural flow of the river’s water.

He demanded that the people and the government of AJK should have the power to decide on projects for development of their natural resources.

Khawaja Bashir, a senior citizen, while talking to The Friday Times said, “There is no proper system for sewage disposal and other waste in the city, which is lying around in the open. It will be a nightmare to live in Muzaffarabad when there is no more water in the river.”

Former chief administrator of the Muzaffarabad Municipal Corporation Sardar Mubarak Haider told journalists that if no remedial steps regarding waste and sewage were taken, it would disaster for the entire city.

He urged the government to pay attention to the issue and direct the WAPDA to address the problem.

He believed that diversion of the river would have a serious impact on the environment, as there would be less water for drinking and washing away the waste.

“Temperatures in the area are also rising because the cooling effect of the river is being curbed due to less evaporation,” he said.

“AJK is producing around 2,500 megawatts of electricity while its maximum consumption is 400 megawatts. Despite this, we face long hours of load shedding,” said Muhammad Bilal, another citizen.

In a recently held session of the AJK Legislative Assembly, Prime Minister Raja Farooq Haider Khan said that talks with the federal government were in progress. He said rights of the people of capital city would be protected at all costs.

The premier said that the state government had already presented four points to the committee constituted by the federal government to assess the potential environmental hazards caused by the Neelum River’s diversion.

“It has been conveyed to the committee that water flow in Neelum River must be increased with provisions for new water supply schemes for the capital city,” he said. “A new sewage system needs to be introduced and water bodies must be constructed near the city.”

The prime minister added that no one was aware about scarcity of water in Neelum River after its diversion to the hydropower project.

A writ petition has been filed by a number of activists and lawyers before the high court of Azad Jammu and Kashmir to direct WAPDA to abide by the 36 points that were issued by the Environmental Protection Agency of AJK. “Petitioners say that a minimum level of water should be maintained in the river all the times and that WAPDA be directed to build a sewage system and water bodies as agreed upon when the NOC was issued,” said Syed Zulqarnain Raza Naqvi, a lawyer.

When officials of the Ministry of Water and Power and managers of the Neelum Jehlum Hydropower Project were asked about the environment initiatives and resettlement of people affected by the project, they pointed out that WAPDA and NJHPC had completed a number of infrastructure-related projects in affected areas.

These include construction of a bridge at a cost of Rs510 Million on Neelum River, a metaled road and a suspension bridge at a cost of Rs28 million. They said a water supply scheme had been launched at Chast Nagar Chatter Kalas at a cost of Rs1.25 million and other public welfare schemes – such as the construction of a dispensary and upgrading the water supply schemes in Nausada and Nauseri – had been approved and funds had been transferred to the AJK government. WAPDA and NJHPC officials said rehabilitation of Lohar Gali main road, construction of Ali Coh Bridge and a number of other schemes had also been approved by the government.

It is pertinent to mention here that none of these projects address the original issues of the people; water scarcity and waste disposal.

Environmentalist Shabbir Hussain, who studied this project, said that according to international laws, 88 percent of a river’s water must flow downstream, but in NJHPP’s case, 90 percent of the water had directed to the tunnel due to which 400 natural fountains of the area had dried up and the ecosystem of the area had been destroyed. “All power generation projects in the state initiated without proper consultation or environmental, social and strategic assessments will add to the crises,” he added.

The civil society in Muzaffarabad, through an open letter, apprised Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan about WAPDA’s unfulfilled commitment with the government of AJK. The letter stated that WAPDA did not construct sewage treatment plants for 16 active sewage outlets laid along the Neelum River. Moreover, WAPDA did not install water quality monitoring systems along the length of Neelum River.

Through this letter, the civil society complained that WAPDA did not ensure uninterrupted functioning of Makrri Water Treatment and Supply Facility that supplies water to the entire city. It further added that WAPDA did not install an alternate water supply scheme to cater the existing demands of the city’s residents.

“Water bodies and solid waste management project is still awaited on part of local administration,” the letter stated.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 20 Jan 2019 23:57

World Bank rates progress on Dasu project as 'moderately unsatisfactory' - Shahbaz Rana

ISLAMABAD: The World Bank has lowered the 2,160-megawatt Dasu hydropower project’s rating to ‘moderately unsatisfactory’ after Pakistan could not resolve outstanding issues in the past over two years, which will now push the completion period beyond 2021.

It was the second downward revision in the project’s implementation rating over the past two and a half years, indicating the systemic bureaucratic weaknesses that have started affecting strategic projects. Last time, the World Bank had cut the progress rating to moderately satisfactory in June 2016.

The previous federal government had failed to resolve a host of land-related issues and could not ensure safety measures, leading to casualties. “The implementation progress of the DHP-I has remained slower than expected,” said the latest implementation status report of the World Bank-funded project, released in the outgoing week.

The report noted that land acquisition has only reached 742 acres, out of the 1,987 acres required for construction areas. The accrued delay during the last two years in acquiring land has now reached a stage where it directly affects the pace of the main works construction, and implementation progress has, therefore, been set to be moderately unsatisfactory, stated the report.

PM intervenes to save $4.3b Dasu dam project

Pakistan had envisaged completing the project by December 2021 to add 2,160MW of electricity to the national grid under the first phase. The previous government preferred the 4,320MW Dasu hydropower project over Diamer-Bhasha dam and then prime minister Nawaz Sharif was initially keen to inaugurate its first phase before the end of his five-year term in 2018.

The World Bank financing is also important for the timely completion of the project’s first phase, which has a total cost of $4.3 billion. The bank has already approved $588.4 million for the scheme. It has also given guarantees of $460 million for raising about $2.5 billion in commercial loans from domestic and foreign lenders. Owing to the slow physical progress, the World Bank released only $179 million or 30.4% of its loan component in the past four years, according to a project progress report of the lender.

World Bank warns Pakistan of rise in Dasu project cost

The project comprises six power generating units of 360MW each as well as a 250km, 765-kilovolt double-circuit transmission line from Dasu to Islamabad.

The World Bank loan is primarily being used for project supervision, implementation of social and environmental management plans, and preparatory works such as relocation of Karakoram Highway (KKH), access roads, offices and colonies.

The progress report stated that the preparatory work is only 24% finished compared to expected 100% and main civil works have reached less than 1% of the completion compared to expected 20% by this time. Furthermore, poor safety management has resulted in accidents and fatalities associated with the construction work, according to the report.

However, the Washington-based lender noted that recent increased attention and leadership by senior government officials in the Ministry of Water Resources and the government of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P) have led to visibly increased activities to accelerate the project since November 2018. In collaboration with the World Bank, the Ministry of Water Resources, K-P government and the Water and Power Development Authority (Wapda) have identified a set of critical actions that need to be taken urgently to turn around the project.

Key actions are to accelerate land acquisition, improve occupational safety and health management, strengthen the Wapda project management unit and decentralise the decision-making process to project level so implementation can become more efficient.

Key decisions on the way forward to solve the land acquisition issues were taken by the project steering committee in a meeting in Peshawar on November 6, 2018, which was chaired by the minister of water resources. A committee formed by the K-P government in November 2018 has started work to resolve the land acquisition issues and will present its suggestions in the next steering committee meeting. The World Bank will send a mission to Pakistan next month to follow up on the actions to accelerate the project

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 22 Jan 2019 23:54

https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/ ... UqHlI.html
Remake the terms of the Indus treaty

Contrast this with the record of other powers on binding accords. China’s 2017 breach of bilateral accords by denying India hydrological data resulted in many preventable deaths in Assam floods. The US is now dumping the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty after unilaterally terminating another IWT-style pact of unlimited duration — the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.A scofflaw Pakistan, despite being in dire financial straits, remains wedded to terrorism, including inflicting upon India death by a thousand cuts. Yet the much larger India, instead of imposing deterrent costs, continues to treat Pakistan with kid gloves, as underscored by the impending visit of the Indus commissioner-led Pakistani team.While Pakistan flouts international norms and rules, India adheres to the IWT’s finer details — and goes even beyond. For example, under IWT’s Article VIII, the Permanent Indus Commission (PIC) is to meet once a year. Its next meeting was due in March 2019. But, thanks to India’s zealousness, the PIC met much earlier in August 2018, just five months after its previous meeting.The lopsided IWT, which keeps for India just 19.48% of the total Indus-system waters, is the world’s only inter-country water agreement embodying the doctrine of restricted sovereignty, which compels the upstream nation to forego major river uses for the benefit of the downstream state. India has failed to fully exercise even its IWT-truncated rights. For example, India has built no storage on the Chenab, Jhelum and the main Indus stream, although the IWT permits it to store 4.4 billion cubic meters of these rivers’ waters.ndia gains little from its present approach. For example, despite India’s scrupulous observance of the IWT provisions and its concessions, Pakistan accuses it of not fully complying with the treaty’s terms. Pakistan will never be satisfied. Nor will it stop internationalising every disagreement as part of its water-war strategy against India. Add to the picture its proxy war by terror. While trampling on basic norms, Pakistan claims interminable water rights.In this light, an increasingly water-stressed India should unilaterally remake the terms of the Indus engagement. Four of the six Indus-system rivers originate in India. The other two begin as small rivers in Tibet and gain major flows in India. For starters, India should keep its Indus commissioner’s post vacant. Without formally withdrawing from the IWT, India must assert its upper-riparian rights. India cannot keep bearing IWT’s burdens without any tangible benefits accruing to it from the treaty.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 26 Jan 2019 16:47

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

Water crisis brews between India and Pakistan as rivers run dry - Faseeh Mangi, Chris Kay and Archana Chaudhary

Women and children walk miles each day in search for water in a crowded, downtrodden
district of Pakistan’s financial capital, Karachi— a scene repeated in cities throughout the country.

Across the border in India, government research indicates about three-quarters of people don’t have drinking water at home and 70 percent of the country’s water is contaminated.

As rivers and taps run dry, water has the potential to become a major flash point between archrivals India and Pakistan. Both have repeatedly accused each other of violating the World Bank brokered 1960s Indus Waters Treaty that ensures shared management of the six rivers crossing between the two neighbors, which have fought three major wars in the past 71 years.

The latest dispute is over hydroelectric projects India is building along the Chenab River that Pakistan says violate the treaty and will impact its water supply. Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan is sending inspectors to visit the site on Jan. 27. Indian leader Narendra Modi — who faces elections in the next few months — has vowed to proceed with construction, and it remains unclear how the impasse will be resolved.

“Tensions over water will undoubtedly intensify and put the Indus Waters Treaty — which to this point has helped ensure that they have never fought a war over water — to its greatest test,” Michael Kugelman, a senior associate for South Asia at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington said by email.

“The prospect of two nuclear-armed rivals becoming enmeshed in increasing tensions over a critical resource like water is unsettling and poses highly troubling implications for security in South Asia and the world on the whole,” he said.

For now, relations between India and Pakistan appear to be stable, and even looking more positive. Khan’s six-month-old Pakistani government has sought to mend ties with India, and has said the country’s powerful military supports those efforts — a notion greeted with skepticism in New Delhi.

Still, all sides see the long-term risks of a conflict over water: Khan himself is attempting to raise $17 billion via the world’s largest crowd fund for the construction of two large dams, one of which would be built in the disputed territory of Kashmir. In a region that’s home to about a quarter of the world’s population, failure to manage water shortages could be catastrophic.

“Any future war that happens will be on these issues,” Major General Asif Ghafoor, Pakistan’s military spokesman, told reporters last year, referring to water issues. “We need to give it a lot of attention.”

The most serious threat to the water agreement of late followed a terrorist attack on an Indian army camp in September 2016, when Modi stated that “blood and water and cannot flow together” and vowed to review the treaty.

If Modi is re-elected “there’s a possibility that water may become a tool to try bring Pakistan to heel,” said Ashok Swain, professor of peace and conflict research and the director of research at the School of International Water Cooperation at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“He may not do something immediately after resuming power but if relations with Pakistan deteriorate, by 2020-21, it’s a possibility,” Swain said. And although Pakistan’s new political leaders are aware the two dams being built by India are only one part its problem, “a water conflict with India can be a good way to hide their own mismanagement.”India's Ministry of
Water spokesman Sudhir Pandey didn't respond to phone calls, while Pakistan's Commissioner for Indus Waters Syed Muhammad Mehar Ali Shah was unavailable to comment.

Pakistan, India and Afghanistan are among the world’s eight most water stressed countries. Waiting for hours or going days without water supply is the new normal in some crowded South Asian cities. The Indus river, one of Asia’s longest that originates in the Tibetan Plateau and flows into the Arabian sea near Karachi, has shriveled to a shadow of its former self. Water scarcity has led to regular protests in cities from Shimla in India to Lahore in Pakistan.

Most South Asian nations are heavily dependent on agriculture that consumes the majority of fresh water supply. Rice and sugarcane are grown by flooding the entire area with more than four feet of water. About 60 percent of households in India rely on agriculture while about half of Pakistan’s labor force is employed by the industry.

“South Asia has a water crisis,” said Pervaiz Amir, a regional expert for the Stockholm-based Global Water Partnership, pointing to the cities of Karachi and India’s capital, New Delhi. “You immediately start a ripple effect, first it is poverty that will increase. In the southern areas of Pakistan, extremism and terrorism will increase.”

Global agencies have made dire predictions that Pakistan — despite having the world’s largest glaciers — will face mass water scarcity by 2025. Already availability per capita has dropped by a third since 1991 to 1,017 cubic meters, according to the International Monetary Fund.

In most areas of Karachi flowing piped water is a rarity and its more than 15 million residents receive less than half of their daily needs. Even when it is supplied in the densely populated district of Lyari it only reaches a handful of houses through a leaking line that passes through mounds of garbage and leaves it smelling of sewage.

“When water comes, women come from far, far away to fill water,” said 30-year-old fisherman Abdul Qadir, pointing out dilapidated pipelines in Lyari’s Khadda Market area. “There is a line of more than 200 people here.”

Last year a judicial report showed that 91 percent of Karachi’s water was unsafe to drink. Pakistan’s poorest urban dwellers have access to only 10 liters per capita — just one fifth of the requirement, according to James Wescoat, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The World Economic Forum rates the water crisis as the biggest risk in Pakistan, with terrorist attacks third on the list. Waseem Akhtar, Karachi’s mayor, told Bloomberg the city needs to fix widespread leakages and theft, but funding is scarce.

Neighboring India’s water demand is projected to be twice the available supply by 2030 and will lead to a six percent loss in the country’s economic growth by 2050, according to the New Delhi-based government think-tank NITIAayog.

While a solution will need regional cooperation, there's been little coordination between India and Pakistan apart from their decades-old river-sharing agreement. Still, officials on both sides of the border recognize they need to act with urgency.

“We have a near crisis,” said S. Massod Hussain, chairman of India’s central water commission. “We need better management of our water resources.”

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 26 Jan 2019 20:21

Breakthrough? India lets Pak team inspect Chenab basin projects - ToI
A three-member Pakistan delegation will visit India from January 27 for inspection of projects in the Chenab basin, official sources here confirmed. The visit is mandated by the Indus Waters Treaty to allow both sides to resolve issues related to hydroelectric projects.

In what was the first official engagement between India and the Imran Khan-led government last year, the two sides had discussed ways to strengthen the role of the Permanent Indus Commission (PIC) for resolving matters under the 1960 treaty. Pakistan’s water resources minister Faisal Vawda had described India’s approval to the visit as a major breakthrough.

“Pakistan and India have been into Indus water treaty dispute for ages. Due to our continued efforts there’s a major breakthrough that India has finally agreed to our request for inspection of Indian projects in Chenab basin,” he had tweeted. The two countries are currently involved in technical discussions on implementation of various hydroelectric projects under the provisions of the Indus Waters Treaty including Pakal Dul (1,000 MW) and Lower Kalnai (48 MW) in the state of Jammu & Kashmir.

Both the countries had in the last meeting agreed to undertake the treaty mandated tours of both the Indus Commissioners in the Indus basin on both sides.


Pakistan media reports had then said that India had invited Pakistani experts to visit the sites of the Pakal Dul and Lower Kalnai hydropower projects on the Chenab river next month to address Islamabad’s concerns over the construction of the projects. During the talks, India was said to have rejected Pakistan’s objections to the construction work.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 28 Jan 2019 01:24

Indus Water Treaty: Delegation off to India for review of controversial dam sites - Asif Mehmood

LAHORE: A three-member delegation led by Indus Water Commissioner Syed Mehr Ali Shah left for India on Sunday to inspect New Delhi’s under-construction hydroelectric projects in the Chenab basin.

The team, which includes Joint Commissioner Usman Ghani and National Engineering Services Pakistan’s (Nespak) Mehmood Hayat, departed via the Wagah Border.

Speaking to reporters prior to departure, the commissioner said Islamabad had not objected over the construction of the dams but did harbour concerns over their design.

During the January 27-February 1 visit, the Pakistani delegation will inspect the Lower Kulnai and Pakal Dul projects being constructed over the Chenab River.

President Alvi calls for engaging India in water talks

Talks on the lingering water disputes between the longtime rivals were held in August last year, but ended without any major breakthrough.

In 2012, Pakistan objected over Pakal Dul’s design for violating the Sindh Taas Agreement. On the occasion, Pakistani officials demanded that the freeboard height should be reduced from seven-feet to two-feet and that the installation of the seal way gates should be done with an additional 40 metres in order to bring it to 1620 metres and align it with sea level.

Despite Pakistan repeatedly dissenting the storage of water in the dam and the provision of data in regards to its operation, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the projects in May.

Water talks: Pak-India negotiations end with no concrete headway being made

Following this development, a statement issued by the Foreign Office said that despite several rounds of bilateral negotiations as well as mediation under the auspices of the World Bank, India continued with the construction of the project.

Both the projects constitute a violation of the Indus Water Treaty 1960. The treaty allotted the waters of three eastern rivers namely Ravi, Beas and Sutlej exclusively to India while that of Western rivers namely Indus, Chenab and Jhelum to Pakistan. However, India has some rights on Western rivers which include unrestricted rights to develop hydroelectric power within the specified parameters of the design.

The Permanent Indus Commission, formed under the treaty signed between India and Pakistan in 1960, comprises of the Indus commissioners for both countries. The treaty provides for both the commissioners to meet at least once every year, alternately in India and Pakistan.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 28 Jan 2019 17:02

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

Pakistan makes poor use of its water resources: report - Amin Ahmed

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World Bank says ecosystems like rivers, lakes, wetlands and Indus delta are in rapid decline.

ISLAMABAD: A new report of the World Bank says Pakistan gets a poor economic return from its significant water resources, observing that the best use of water endowment is not made in the country.

The economic costs from poor water and sanitation, floods and droughts are conservatively estimated to be four per cent of the GDP, or around $12 billion per year. These costs are dominated by the costs of poor water supply and sanitation, says the report titled “Pakistan Getting More from Water”.

The economic costs of degradation of the Indus delta are estimated to be around $2 billion per year, while the costs of pollution and other environmental degradation have not been assessed. These estimates of economic benefits and costs cannot be directly compared or aggregated, but they demonstrate that the country gets a poor economic return from its significant water resource.

The country does not make the best use of its water endowment and the water use is heavily dominated by agriculture, which contributes around one-fifth of the national GDP, but less than half of this is from irrigated cropping. Irrigation contributes around $22 billion to annual GDP.

The four major crops — wheat, rice, cotton and sugarcane — that represent nearly 80pc of all water use generate less than 5pc of the GDP — around $14 billion per year. Other economic contributions from water are difficult to accurately assess, but hydropower generation is economically significant, with a current market value of $1 billion to $2 billion.

The report says scant attention is paid to the environmental outcomes from water and water-dependent ecosystems — rivers, lakes, wetlands and the Indus delta — are in rapid decline. This decline is characterised by biodiversity loss, greatly reduced stocks of freshwater and estuarine fish stocks, and a loss of other ecosystem services, including the storm protection afforded by coastal mangrove forests. Excessive water withdrawals and widespread pollution are the main causes of decline, but river fragmentation by infrastructure and changed sediment regimes contribute.

Water security is undermined by poor water resource management and poor water service delivery — including irrigation and drainage services — and domestic water supply and sanitation services. In addition, some growing, long-term water-related risks are not adequately recognised and are poorly mitigated.

Water resource management is compromised by poor water data, information, and analysis; weak processes for water resources planning and allocation; environmentally unsustainable levels of water withdrawal; widespread pollution; and low water productivity in agriculture.

Inadequate monitoring and data management prevent robust water resource assessments and accounting to guide water planning and management and prevents reliable flood and drought forecasting.

Water resources planning has historically focused on supply augmentation and has not addressed sustainable resource use or been linked adequately to broader economic planning. Although provincial water shares have been formally defined, they have been demonstrated to be economically suboptimal, and there is insufficient clarity on risk sharing during times of acute scarcity.

These deficiencies are expected to become starker with increasing water demands and climate change. Water resources management does little to protect water-dependent ecosystems either by way of environmental flows or pollution control.

The report points out that no formal mechanisms exist within provinces for reallocating water between sectors to match shifting demands or to cope with extreme drought. Irrigation water allocation is suboptimal in terms of efficiency, equity, and transparency, contributing to the low productivity of irrigated agriculture and causing a lack of trust between farmers and service providers.

Irrigation service delivery is poor and contributes to low productivity. Hydraulic efficiency of water distribution is very low, and water delivery across command areas is inequitable. Irrigation services are not financially sustainable and financial performance is declining. Service tariffs are set too low and are decoupled from service quality, and the operational costs of service providers are far too high.

Climate change is the biggest longer-term and currently unmitigated external risk to water sector. Climate change is not expected to greatly alter average water availability over coming decades, but inflows will become more variable between and within years, increasing the severity of floods and droughts. Climate warming is expected to drive water demands up by 5pc to 15pc by 2047, in addition to the demand increases from population and economic growth.

In the upper Indus Basin, accelerated glacial melting will increase the risks of dangerous glacial lake outburst floods. In the lower Indus Basin, sea level rise and increases in the frequency and severity of coastal storms will exacerbate seawater intrusion into the delta and into coastal groundwater. In coastal Sindh, this will further degrade groundwater quality, ground water dependent ecosystems, and irrigation productivity.

A careful assessment of all water resources, drawing on a range of data and past studies, suggests that the current total average annual renewable resource is 229 billion cubic metres (BCM). Only 4pc of this is outside of the Indus Basin.

There is no single simple solution to address water security. It will take concerted effort on many fronts by all governments and water users over many years. Large infrastructure gaps must be addressed, which require significant financial resources. Provincial-level water sector financing has increased in recent years, but federal financing has declined significantly in proportional terms.

Collectively, sector financing is well below the recommended levels. This is the case for major infrastructure, reforms, and insti­­tutional strengthening; urban services; flood mitigation; and environmental management. The biggest challenges, however, are ones of governance, especially regarding irrigation and urban water. The governance challenges relate to inadequate legal frameworks for water at federal and provincial levels, and the incompleteness of policy frameworks and the inadequacy of policy implementation. The policy deficiencies stem from institutional problems, including unclear, incomplete, or overlapping institutional mandates, and a lack of capacity in water institutions at all levels.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 29 Jan 2019 17:34

X Posted on the I W T Thread

Poor use of water resources - Editorial

Our national life is characterised by long years of complacency and unconcern and then anxiety following wake-up calls. The authorities are being repeatedly warned by experts on water issues. Water scarcity has been increasing in the country with the passage of time due to shortage of storage capacity. Most of the rainwater flows to the sea as no new dam has been built after 1968.

Now the World Bank says Pakistan gets a poor economic return from its significant water resources. The economic costs from poor water and sanitation, floods and droughts are estimated to be 4pc of GDP, or Rs12 billion a year. FOUR PERCENT OF TERRORSTANI GDP WOULD MEAN US$ 12 BILLION The economic costs of degradation of the Indus delta are estimated to be around Rs2 billion. Taken together all this puts the country’s economic managers in a bad light. The report says little attention is paid to the environmental outcomes from water and water-dependent ecosystems – rivers, lakes, wetlands and the Indus delta. They are in rapid decline. This is causing biodiversity loss, greatly reduced stock of freshwater and reduced protection from storms provided by coastal mangrove forests. Excessive water withdrawals and widespread pollution are the main causes of decline. It says water security is undermined by poor water resource management and poor water service delivery—including irrigation and drainage services – domestic water supply and sanitation services. Some growing long-term water-related risks are poorly mitigated. It says there is no proper system of data collection, analysis of data and action based on analysis. It warns that climate change will make water inflows more variable between and within years, increasing the severity of floods and droughts. The biggest challenges pertain to governance, especially in irrigation and urban water supply. These challenges mainly relate to inadequate legal frameworks and the inadequacy of policy implementation.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 04 Feb 2019 01:11

Experts return after inspecting Indian hydropower projects - Khalid Hasnain

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LAHORE: A three-member delegation of Pakistani experts returned home on Friday after inspecting various hydropower projects at Chenab basin in India. The delegation during its [url=https://www.dawn.com/news/1456986]six-day visit inspected the projects under the Indus Water Treaty[/url[ on the invitation of New Delhi-based office of the Indian commissioner for Indus waters.

“Our visit remained successful, as we inspected four hydropower projects at Chenab basin in India, including 1,000MW Pakal Dul, 48MW Lower Kalnai, 850MW Ratlay and 900MW Baglihar dam,” Pakistan’s commissioner for Indus waters Syed Mehr Ali Shah, who led the delegation, told Dawn after returning home from India. He said the construction work on Pakal Dul dam, which was earlier stopped, had resumed. Though access roads had been constructed, civil work on the dam was yet to begin, he added.

Mr Shah said no work had started on Lower Kalnai and Ratlay projects, as the contractor, who was mobilised earlier, had left the work.

“We witnessed that the contractor camp was abandoned, as there was no construction activity. We also visited the areas of these projects in detail, by going up to the river site,” he added.

He said the delegation also inspected the Baglihar dam, which was generating 150MW of power on the day due to low water flows in the river during the ongoing winter.

“There we, under the decision of the neutral experts, had to see whether or not the operation of this plant was according to the project design. So after the visit, we found operation of the plant according to its design,” he explained.

Mr Shah said the visit provided Pakistan an opportunity to devise its next strategies. However, observations and concerns noted by the Pakistani experts during the visit would not be made public before conveying these to their counterparts formally.

“We cannot make our observations, concerns public, as we will convey these to our counterpart in India either through a letter or meeting,” he added.

Mr Shah appreciated the Indian authorities for rendering full cooperation in carrying out the inspection of the projects by the Pakistani experts. “Though they [Indians] had planned our visits to various sites, we visited even the sites (up/down streams) we desired. They also provided us foolproof security,” he said.

According to Water Resources Secretary Khawaja Shumail, the Pakistani experts’ visit to India was very successful.

He said Pakistan had also invited the Indian experts to visit Kotri barrage whenever they desired.

“Our delegation has invited them to visit Pakistan, as their visit, under decisions of the two-day meeting of the Permanent Commission for Indus Waters (PCIW) held in Lahore in August last year, is scheduled after the end of the visit of Pakistani experts. So now it is up to them when they visit Kotri barrage,” he said, adding that they wanted the Indian experts to visit Kotri barrage by March.

It may be recalled that as a result of the 115th meeting of the PCIW in Lahore, India had scheduled inspection of its projects by the Pakistani experts in September last year, but later scheduled it for October. However, India again postponed the inspection at a later stage due to local bodies’ elections in the areas where the projects are located.

Finally, India through a letter scheduled the visit from Jan 28 to Feb 1. While scheduling the visit (Jan 28 to Feb 1), they also clarified that though the tour by the Pakistani experts was first scheduled for September and then October, it couldn’t be made possible because of local Panchayat elections in the area and then the winter session of Indian parliament.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 05 Feb 2019 20:20

X Posted on the Terroritan Thread

Poor water management costs Pakistan dearly - Shahbaz Rana

ISLAMABAD: Poor water management is costing Pakistan $12 billion annually, as its water security that is already at risk is also facing a new challenge because of reduction in inflows in eastern tributaries due to increased water use in India, says a new World Bank report.

‘Pakistan: Getting More from Water’ report that the lender formally launched in Islamabad on Monday highlights the challenges arising from mismanagement of water resources. The report also offers solutions that include water pricing and phasing out subsidies to discourage use of water in four crops.

The report says large storage reservoirs can help improve some aspects of water security but do not address the most pressing water security issues. The findings come amid a national drive to build mega dams to preserve water.

Up to a quarter of the population may be at risk from arsenic contamination of drinking water. Floods and droughts also have significant social impacts, again affecting women and children the most.

Committee to meet on Feb 11 to decide water tariff for industries

The economic costs to Pakistan from poor water and sanitation, floods, and droughts are conservatively estimated to be 4% of its Gross Domestic Product (GDP) or around $12 billion per year.

The report also mentions that there has also been a small but important reduction in inflow from the eastern tributaries of the Indus because of development in India, which is permitted under the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT). The small but significant decrease in total Indus inflows appears to be largely a result of the increased water use in India on the eastern tributaries.

The report says only 16 countries have more water than Pakistan but because it is the world’s sixth most populous country, water availability per person is comparatively low. There are 32 states with less water per person than Pakistan. Across these countries the average per capita GDP is 10 times that of Pakistan.

The report says Pakistan does not make the best use of its water endowment and water use is heavily dominated by agriculture. The four major crops, wheat, rice, sugarcane, and cotton that represent nearly 80% of all water use generate less than 5% of the GDP.

India stops unused water from entering Pakistan

Scant attention is paid to environmental outcomes from water in Pakistan and water-dependent ecosystems—rivers, lakes, wetlands, and the Indus Delta—are in rapid decline.

Water security in Pakistan is undermined by poor water resource management and poor water service delivery – including irrigation and drainage services – and domestic water supply and sanitation services.

It says no formal mechanisms exist within provinces for reallocating water between sectors to match shifting demands or to cope with extreme drought.

Domestic water supply coverage is high—especially for urban households, but coverage is declining because of rapid urbanisation. And although the coverage is high, the quality of supply services is poor—especially in terms of water quality and reliability.

The report says climate change is the biggest longer-term and currently unmitigated external risk to Pakistan’s water sector. The climate warming is expected to increase water demands by 5% to 15% by 2047, in addition to the demand increases from population and economic growth.

It underlines that there is no single simple solution to address water security in Pakistan. It will take concerted effort on many fronts by all governments and water users over many years.

Large infrastructure gaps must be addressed, which require significant financial resources. Provincial-level water sector financing has increased in recent years, but federal financing has declined significantly in proportional terms.

Punjab govt drafts plan to provide clean drinking water

In the upper Indus Basin, accelerated glacial melting will increase the risks of dangerous glacial lake outburst floods. In the lower Indus Basin, sea level rise and increases in the frequency and severity of coastal storms will exacerbate seawater intrusion into the delta and into coastal groundwater.

It said a second overlooked risk is change in basin-scale river sediment dynamics.

The report said new reservoirs would deliver relatively modest additional yield, and the water supply benefits would not justify the significant financial costs. But new reservoirs will help mitigate floods and seasonal flow variations, both of which are expected to increase with climate change.

Although population growth is slowing, projections suggest Pakistan’s population will exceed 300 million by 2047 and water demands will increase significantly.

The World Bank has given a dozen recommendations to address water scarcity and mismanagement issues. Half a dozen recommendations relate to improved water resource management, three to improved service delivery, and three are related to improved risk mitigation.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Feb 2019 21:12

^^
From the article mentioned above (India stops unused water from entering Pakistan)
India utilises up to 94 per cent of the water allotted to it under the Indus Water Treaty and the remainder flows into Pakistan.

That would be interesting. Not even a single drop should flow and IWT must be renegotiated.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 10 Feb 2019 20:47

India’s confused and contradictory signals are only emboldening Pakistan



India’s confused and contradictory signals are only emboldening Pakistan

Pakistan even uses the Indus Waters Treaty, the world's most generous water-sharing pact, as a stick to beat us with. Why does India put up with this stinging rogue behaviour?

Consider two developments in recent days that speak volumes about India’s Pakistan policy: Just as the United States moved to unilaterally withdraw from a major arms-control pact (the Intermediate-Range Forces, or INF Treaty), “Incredible India” — as it calls itself in international tourism-promotion ads — welcomed an inspection team from a terrorist state to scrutinise Indian hydropower projects that are being built under the terms of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT).

And, as if to mock the Indian foreign secretary’s formal protest over his call to separatist Umar Farooq four days earlier, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mohammad Qureshi on Saturday telephoned another secessionist leader in Kashmir Valley, Ali Shah Geelani.

Qureshi and Pakistan’s all-powerful military generals think they can get away by provoking India.

In the absence of a clear-headed Pakistan policy backed by political resolve, India continues to send confusing and contradictory signals, encouraging Pakistan’s continuing roguish conduct.

India’s welcoming of the three-member Pakistani inspection team, led by that country’s Indus commissioner, illustrated how its incoherent approach to Pakistan has spawned even appeasement.

In 1960, in the naïve hope that water largesse would yield peace, India entered into the IWT by giving away the Indus system’s largest rivers as gifts to Pakistan. Since then, the congenitally hostile Pakistan, while drawing the full benefits from the treaty, has waged overt or covert aggression almost continuously — and is now using the IWT itself as a stick to beat India with, including by contriving water disputes and internationalising them.

Whereas the US has ditched the INF Treaty over an alleged Russian violation of its terms, India clings to the IWT’s finer details — even though Pakistan is waging proxy war by terror against it. Like the IWT, the INF Treaty is of indefinite duration.

Pakistan’s use of state-reared terrorist groups to inflict upon India death by a thousand cuts can be invoked by New Delhi as constituting reasonable grounds for an Indian withdrawal from the IWT. The International Court of Justice has upheld the principle that a treaty, including one of indefinite duration, may be dissolved by reason of a fundamental change of circumstances.

Still, India not only adheres to the IWT’s finer details, it even goes beyond. For example, under the IWT’s Article VIII, the Permanent Indus Commission (PIC) is to meet once a year. Its next meeting was due in March 2019. But, thanks to India’s zealousness, the PIC met much earlier in August 2018, just five months after its previous meeting.

It was at that meeting that India agreed to advance Pakistan’s inspection tour to October 2018. The last such tour occurred in 2014 and the next one, in keeping with the IWT provision for a tour “once every five years”, was due by the end of 2019. The local bodies’ elections in Jammu and Kashmir forced the October tour to be deferred to January-end.

Before returning home on February 1, the Pakistani team examined three Indian hydropower projects currently under construction — the Pakal Dul, which will generate up to 1,000 megawatts of electricity, Ratle (850 megawatts), and Lower Kalnai (48 megawatts).

The team also visited the already operational 900-megawatt Baglihar — a project that Pakistan tried earlier to stop by invoking the IWT’s dispute-settlement provisions.

But the international neutral expert appointed to resolve the dispute ultimately ruled in India’s favour.

Pakistan, however, could seek international intercession again by using the information its inspection team collected last week to mount technical objections to the Indian projects under construction. Even before the team visited India, Pakistani officials publicly raised objections to the spillway or freeboard of these projects.

Pakistan’s interest lies in sustaining a unique treaty that incorporates water generosity to the lower riparian on a scale unmatched by any other pact in the world. That interest arms India with significant leverage to link the IWT’s future to Pakistan’s observance of basic international norms.

Yet, India is letting go of the opportunity to reframe the terms of the Indus engagement.

India’s pusillanimity is apparent from yet another development last week. After the Indian foreign secretary summoned the Pakistani high commissioner to lodge a protest over Qureshi’s call to Umar Farooq, the Pakistani foreign office the next day summoned the Indian high commissioner in Islamabad.

This raises the question as to why India does not downgrade its diplomatic relations with Pakistan — why maintain full diplomatic ties with a country that New Delhi branded “Terroristan” in 2017?

There is no reason for India to keep diplomatic relations with a terrorist state at the high commissioner level. Downsizing diplomatic missions and doing away with high commissioners should be part of an Indian strategy to employ peaceful tools, including diplomatic, economic and riparian pressures, to reform Pakistan’s behaviour.


Sadly, India is all talk when it comes to imposing costs on the next-door terrorist state. Indian policymakers do not seem to realise that words not backed by action carry major costs. They not only affect India’s credibility but also undermine its deterrent posture by emboldening the enemy.

Isn’t it telling that Pakistan continues to gore India, although it is much smaller in economic, military and demographic terms? Such aggression is the bitter fruit of India’s present approach — which essentially has remained the same under successive governments.

However, it is still not too late to reverse course.

India ought to talk less and act more. To tame a rogue neighbour, India must emphasise deeds, not words.

For starters, it must discard the fiction that it can have normal diplomatic relations with a sponsor of terrorism.

BRAHMA CHELLANEY

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Abhibhushan » 21 Feb 2019 19:07

Rakshaks. !!!

The day has come.
Banner on Republic TV says India Blocks. Water to Pakistan

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby ArjunPandit » 21 Feb 2019 19:26

^^it is just the unused portion of India's share. This is a great first step, now the screws must be tightened. Hopefully we bring in a session to discuss this in parliament

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Supratik » 21 Feb 2019 19:39

Details. At some point we need to withdraw from the IWT and renegotiate.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/governm ... it-1997270

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 21 Feb 2019 20:00

we have SYL canal but is unused...Modi should call Captain Amrinder and Badal for a joint meeting to settle the issue. start SYL... link beas/ravi to sutlej...build whatever dams etc is needed and get on with business. and look to see what to do on western rivers.. need to turn Pakistan into desert.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Supratik » 21 Feb 2019 21:29

MOS Jitendra Singh clarifies.

https://youtu.be/k8O6h5jaRx4

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 12:38

Of the total 168 million acre-feet, India's share of water from the three rivers is 33 million acre-feet,

does that mean the 3 rivers given to TSP have 168-33=135 mil acre-feet and the 3 rivers we got have a paltry 33 mil acre-feet?

or , 168 is across our 3 rivers and we are supposed to use only 33 of that?

I wonder which set of banditji appointed idiots "negotiated" such a sweetheart deal?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 22 Feb 2019 12:48

this is a feel good move...of no consequence in near to short term. there is so much politics over SYL.( even Supreme Courts directives have been flouted) .imagine the mess when we try to link the 3 rivers and take water to Yamuna !!

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 12:57

sections of valley IMs will be happy to give the water to their brethen in TSP than donate it to any other state.

enviro activists will claim the flora and fauna of the two river systems and it will harm the gangetic ecosystem and 25 years study led by them is needed.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vikas » 22 Feb 2019 13:54

Singha wrote:sections of valley IMs will be happy to give the water to their brethen in TSP than donate it to any other state.

enviro activists will claim the flora and fauna of the two river systems and it will harm the gangetic ecosystem and 25 years study led by them is needed.


Valley's M's will sell Pakis down the river if the price is right. It is the Hindus who are so in love with Pakis.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 13:58

on IWT moves there is no clarity in the media.

Gadkari ji said 3 eastern rivers.

WION is saying 3 eastern rivers, but naming the 3 western rivers in its captioning!

- we need a real picture of what is our share of each river
- how much of that share of each river we are using on a % basis

surely some of the 3 western rivers are also are being used for domestic and agri use in india?

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 14:06

seems to me the real teeth is the much higher flow of the 3 western rivers, and thats where india can play games.
TSP has already said they have no objection or concern about Gadkari plan of using eastern rivers which we just waste 5% now
so other than a 5% gain of the 33 maf from the eastern rivers, this is a damp squib.
None in india have talked of DIVERTING water from the western rivers to the eastern rivers which is the only way we can steal that water and feed into projects like the below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Wat ... s_by_India

According to this agreement, control over the water flowing in three "eastern" rivers of India — the Beas, the Ravi and the Sutlej with the mean flow of 33 million acre-feet (MAF) — was given to India, while control over the water flowing in three "western" rivers of India — the Indus, the Chenab and the Jhelum with the mean flow of 80 MAF — was given to Pakistan.[4] More controversial, however, were the provisions on how the waters were to be shared. Since Pakistan's rivers receive more water flow from India, the treaty allowed India to use western rivers water for limited irrigation use and unrestricted use for power generation, domestic, industrial and non consumptive uses such as navigation, floating of property, fish culture, etc. while laying down precise regulations for India to build projects[/b]

The Indus system of Rivers carry nearly 168 MAF average annual flows, of which India can utilize nearly 33 MAF (20% of total) from the assigned three eastern rivers. In addition India is entitled to unrestricted use of western rivers water for power generation, domestic, industrial and non consumptive uses such as navigation, floating of property, fish culture, etc.[46] In 2019, India utilizes 93-94% (30 MAF) of its share, and 6-7% (3 MAF) of India's unutilised share flows to Pakistan, resulting in a total of 87% water flowing to Pakistan. <=== (this is wrong should read as MAX 7 + 80 = 87 MAF) India is undertaking 4 projects to ensure India utilizes its full share from eastern rivers, (a) Shahpurkandi dam project on Ravi River (b) second Ravi-Beas link in Punjab (c) the Ujh Dam project on Ujh River in Jammu and Kashmir and (d) Sutlej-Beas link in Punjab (see also Pandoh Dam). This water will be used by Punjab, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, and Rajasthan and Delhi along with northern hill states.[61][62]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indus-w ... rs-1997617

Speaking to Dawn newspaper on Thursday night, Secretary of Pakistan's Ministry of Water Resources Khawaja Shumail said: "We have neither concern nor objection if India diverts water of eastern rivers and supplies it to its people or uses it for other purposes, as the IWT (Indus Waters Treaty) allows it do so."

Mr Shumail said Pakistan did not see India's decision as worrisome in context with the Indus Water Treaty.

"But we will definitely express our concerns and raise objections strongly if they use or divert waters of western rivers (Chenab, Indus, Jhelum) on which our right to use prevails," he added.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 14:15

if you look at it , the Indus, Jhelum, Chenab are the rivers in kashmir. they are ALL being given away to TSP

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the sutlej, ravi and beas are PUNJAB & HP rivers - they have nothing much to with cashmere

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to really have some teeth on pak necks we need to lay pipelines and start stealing the kashmir rivers, feeding that into yamuna for onward use in UP and into canals for use in punjab/haryana/Raj

Singha
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2019 14:16

the most well watered and fertile part of punjab would be the area between indus and sutlej and TSP took all of that.

Kashi
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Kashi » 22 Feb 2019 14:20

Vikas wrote:It is the Hindus who are so in love with Pakis.


Not really. Those in love with Bakis don't really identify themselves as such.

salaam
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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby salaam » 22 Feb 2019 14:21

Singha wrote:the most well watered and fertile part of punjab would be the area between indus and sutlej and TSP took all of that.


Not only that, most fertile area is east went to what is now Bangladesh. We were left just with a partial Punjab, Gangetic Belt and Assam valley.

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Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Neshant » 22 Feb 2019 14:22

Singha wrote:Of the total 168 million acre-feet, India's share of water from the three rivers is 33 million acre-feet,

does that mean the 3 rivers given to TSP have 168-33=135 mil acre-feet and the 3 rivers we got have a paltry 33 mil acre-feet?

or , 168 is across our 3 rivers and we are supposed to use only 33 of that?

I wonder which set of banditji appointed idiots "negotiated" such a sweetheart deal?



Its stupid beyond belief to even stick to such treaties.

Trump would be have been out of it eons ago.

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Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 22 Feb 2019 20:19

X Posted on the Terroristani Thread

Pakistan not concerned if India diverts water.

Islamabad said that it was not concerned if New Delhi diverted water of the three eastern rivers.

In response to India's decision to stop the flow of its share of water from the Beas, Ravi and Sutlej to Pakistan, Islamabad said that it was not concerned if New Delhi diverted water of the three eastern rivers.

Indian's announcement on Thursday comes in addition to other actions like withdrawal of the most favoured nation (MFN) to Pakistan and slapping of a 200 per cent duty on all imports from Islamabad in the wake of the February 14 Pulwama terror attack that killed 40 CRPF troopers.

The carnage was claimed by the Pakistan based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terror outfit.

Speaking to Dawn news on Thursday night, Secretary of Pakistan's Ministry of Water Resources Khawaja Shumail said: "We have neither concern nor objection if India diverts water of eastern rivers and supplies it to its people or uses it for other purposes, as the IWT (Indus Waters Treaty) allows it do so."

Shumail said Pakistan did not see India's decidion as worrisome in context with the IWT.

"But we will definitely express our concerns and raise objections strongly if they use or divert waters of western rivers (Chenab, Indus, Jhelum) on which our right to use prevails," he added.

According to Pakistan's Commissioner for Indus Waters Syed Mehr Ali Shah, as the IWT has already given a right to India in 1960 to use the water of eastern rivers, it is now up to it to do so or not.

"Whether they diverted and used their unutilised share of eastern rivers' waters in 1960, we had no problem. They want to do it now, we have no problem. And if they don't want to use this, we have no issue," Shah told Dawn.

While commenting about the proposed visit of Indian experts (India's commissioner for Indus waters) to Kotri Barrage (Sindh) keeping in view the tension between the two countries after the Pulwama attack, the Commissioner said: "Let's see what happens in this regard. But we hope for the best."

A three-member delegation of Pakistani experts headed by Shah completed its general tour of inspection (from January 28 to February 1) to various hydropower projects - 1,000MW Pakal Dul, 48MW Lower Kalnai, 850MW Ratlay and 900MW Baglihar dam at Chenab Basin in India.

Before the Pulwama attack, India also shared the design data of its three planned run-of-the-river hydropower schemes with Pakistan under the IWT.

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