Indus Water Treaty

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
dnivas
BRFite
Posts: 229
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 05:54

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby dnivas » 23 Feb 2019 03:12

India is such a good boy. The most well behaved boy in the neighborhood . I am sure in about 200 years, we will get admission into UNSC, if we follow the same good boy routine.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1039
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Nikhil T » 23 Feb 2019 03:54

Can any gurus enlighten why India got into a seemingly unequal treaty? 25% water share with >80% population share? There must be more to it.

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 1693
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Bart S » 23 Feb 2019 04:00

Nikhil T wrote:Can any gurus enlighten why India got into a seemingly unequal treaty? 25% water share with >80% population share? There must be more to it.


I think the logic for calculation was the watershed area of the rivers, not the population. Anyways, the reason why we got into this stupid deal was Nehru and his delusions of grandeur.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5957
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Vikas » 25 Feb 2019 15:03

As the pressure on resources increase and climate goes south, INdia will be forced to pull out of IWT, tomorrow if not today.
We cannot sustain social development without using the water of 3 western rivers.
So J&K was already a cantankerous issues between Ind-Pak and Bandit Ji goes ahead and signs agreement with Pakis and gives away rights on the river for perpetuity. Sometimes it feels like he was settling his divorce case with his wife giving away half of "His" property.

A Nandy
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 273
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 23:39

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby A Nandy » 10 Mar 2019 18:30

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 26320.html

Pulwama attack aftermath: India stops its share of water to Pakistan under Indus Treaty
Speaking to media, Meghwal, said that water of 0.53 million acre-feet of eastern rivers, which was flowing into Pakistan, had been stopped and it could be used for drinking and irrigation purposes.
:twisted: :twisted:

manjgu
BRFite
Posts: 1870
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby manjgu » 10 Mar 2019 22:11

i think this guy is just BS ing...we have not built civil structures as of today to hold water... maybe the dams are being filled up more than their usual capacity..

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6599
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby habal » 10 Mar 2019 23:00

It seems more like attempts to prepare pakistan for the inevitable, the fact that India's share of Indus is being stopped from overflowing into pak completely is being subtly covered under a generic all water to pakistan stopped.

Utter this a few hundred times, and finally when waters of Indus are majorly turned off sometime in future, it doesn't come as an event that happened all of a sudden. It is preparing international community for the inevitable.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19114
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 10 Mar 2019 23:22

Bart S wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:Can any gurus enlighten why India got into a seemingly unequal treaty? 25% water share with >80% population share? There must be more to it.


I think the logic for calculation was the watershed area of the rivers, not the population. Anyways, the reason why we got into this stupid deal was Nehru and his delusions of grandeur.



this was done so that the pakis would ease off on cashmere and reach a settlement.

Heavyweights from the US govt were involved in this deal, brokered through the WB and they stayed in the background, surreptitiously pulling the strings. nehru, as usual, did not fully appreciate the situation, obsessed as he was with dancing on the world stage as an international statesman combined with the fact that nehru's advisors were likely quietly bought off and they convinced him to do the ameriki bidding.

The pakis being pakis, had their cake and tried to eat it too but seriously messed up in the damn building department and over the years they finally landed firmly in the deep schitt that they find themselves in today.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19114
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby chetak » 10 Mar 2019 23:28

Vikas wrote:As the pressure on resources increase and climate goes south, INdia will be forced to pull out of IWT, tomorrow if not today.
We cannot sustain social development without using the water of 3 western rivers.
So J&K was already a cantankerous issues between Ind-Pak and Bandit Ji goes ahead and signs agreement with Pakis and gives away rights on the river for perpetuity. Sometimes it feels like he was settling his divorce case with his wife giving away half of "His" property.


we also have a relatively huge unused share of waters from the western rivers too as per the IWT and we have not even scratched the surface there as far as allowed usage for irrigation is concerned.

Without a doubt, nehru foolishly gifted away the lion's share of the waters to the pakis in the IWT

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7139
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 11 Mar 2019 15:46

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

India blocks free flow of Pakistan's water share from three eastern rivers - Our Correspondent

As tension persists between Pakistan and India, the latter has now started impeding the flow of three rivers shared by the two nuclear-armed neighbours, Express News reported on Monday.

India’s Union Minister of State for Water Resources Arjun Mehghwal announced the move at an event in Rajasthan on Sunday. He said New Delhi had stopped 0.53 million acre-feet of water from the three eastern rivers flowing into Pakistan.

“The water has been stored and will be used whenever Rajasthan or Punjab needs it. It can be used for drinking or irrigation purposes.”

Another Indian minister, Nitin Gadkari, had announced similar plans just days after the February 14 Pulwama suicide bombing in occupied Kashmir.

India breaching Indus Basin Treaty: law minister

It remains unclear whether New Delhi’s latest act of aggression could be viewed as a violation of the Indus Waters Treaty. Under the agreement signed in 1960, Islamabad has unrestricted access to the western rivers Indus, Jhelum and Chenab, while New Delhi enjoys the same authority over the eastern rivers Ravi, Beas and Sutlej.

However, in December last year, Pakistan’s Minister for Law and Justice Barrister Dr Muhammad Farogh Naseem said India had started using water from the western rivers for industrial purposes.

“The treaty had ensured that India could only use water to generate electricity from these rivers if it did not disrupt water supply to Pakistan,” he said.

Expressing Islamabad’s concerns over India’s plans to build dams over Jehlum and Chenab, he had urged the World Bank and other international players to play their due role.

The minister had called out India for repeated threats to revoke the treaty, reminding New Delhi that the agreement could only be terminated with mutual consent.

Cheers Image

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4059
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Lilo » 11 Mar 2019 15:51

chetak wrote:Without a doubt, nehru foolishly gifted away the lion's share of the waters to the pakis in the IWT

Nothing 'Foolish', its an out and out a traitorous act by Nehru - giving away 80% water share to an enemy country while India and its teeming millions this side of the border were parched thin.

If we could have got say 40% water instead of mere 20%,deserts of Rajasthan could have been reclaimed with Chenabs water going upto Barmer and tens of millions of Indians need not have died from hunger and malnutrition as they used to do in 60s and 70s.

Worse Nehru gave away 80% without extracting Paki pound of flesh with respect to access to Afghanistan and Central Asia.

The traitor Nehru while showing outwardly a Soviet monkey balancing act (as he was being threatened using Subhash Bose whom the Soviets imprisoned after WW2) was perennially a Massa and Briturdia pegboy continuing with his pre-1947 role.
This becomes clear when he excluded Soviets from negotiation process of IWT.
An IWT totally conditional to unfettered access to Afghanistan & Soviet central asia would have been clear Soviet interest with India and the region getting a windfall from both energy & trade access via Pakistan to central asia.Even the Pakis would have prospered if they had not been a retarded rentboy to the Anglos as they were.

No wonder traitor Nehru choose the Massa backed World Bank as intermediary in negotiating IWT(who got Pakis their sweetheart IWT deal while screwing India) while keeping Soviets totally excluded from negotiations.They would have supported India for a far better IWT with access to Central Asia(for their own interests) and a binding treaty on Kashmir built in.

Now see the current picture
1)We dont have access to water which is ours and comes from our own watersheds.
2)Pakis started 3 Wars against us after IWT.
3)They still wage continuous War against India using Jihadis.
3)Kashmir is still being claimed & destabilized by them despite their jugular vein guaranteed by IWT .
4)No access to Afghanistan via the Paki land route.

Anyway now the treaty is on its way out - f*** the World Bank and Terroristan,
Once the IWT in the current form reaches complete utilization as NaMo is doing, India will raise the demand for getting its legitimate share of waters under a renegotiated NEW IWT - over and above the old IWT.
In the mean time the Pakis must be prepared to be slapped silly from now on with each terror outrage they perpetrate.
Last edited by Lilo on 11 Mar 2019 17:26, edited 6 times in total.

komal
BRFite
Posts: 440
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 14:47

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby komal » 11 Mar 2019 16:02

Lilo wrote:Nothing 'Foolish', its an out and out a traitorous act by Nehru - giving away 80% water share to an enemy country while India and its teeming millions this side of the border were parched thin.



I believe it is much worse than 'giving away' -- didn't India have to PAY Pakistan several millions of dollars as part of the Treaty?

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7139
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 11 Mar 2019 23:03

Lilo wrote:Nothing 'Foolish', its an out and out a traitorous act by Nehru - giving away 80% water share to an enemy country while India and its teeming millions this side of the border were parched thin.
komal wrote:I believe it is much worse than 'giving away' -- didn't India have to PAY Pakistan several millions of dollars as part of the Treaty?
komal Ji :

Nehru paid about 63 Million Pounds Sterling and Crowed in the Parliament "We have today purchased 19.8% of the Indus Waters."

Comparing to the Price of Gold thence and now the amount NOW is over US$ Five Billion.

I once again reiterate that Nehru DID NOT HAVE THE INDIAN PARLIAMENT'S APPROVAL OF THE INDUS WATER TREATY!

Cheers Image

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7139
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 22 Apr 2019 01:55

Neelum-Jhelum project faces financial constraints - Irshad Ansari

ISLAMABAD: The Neelum-Jhelum hydropower project is facing immense financial difficulties, which have been aggravated by the depreciation of the rupee against the US dollar and delay in disbursement of $280 million by the Exim Bank of China.

The Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower Company expects the project cost to be restricted to approximately Rs470 billion as against the initial approved cost of Rs506.8 billion as per fourth revised PC-I.However, there is a shortfall of Rs108 billion, of which Rs70 billion is the local cost component and Rs38 billion is the foreign cost component.

It has been revealed that China has refused to lend the agreed amount due to certain conditions imposed outside of the contract. The requirement of foreign cost component can be met by persuading the Exim Bank of China at the government level to release the loan whose expiry date is August 2019.

Neelum-Jhelum power plant running at peak capacity

Due to the financial crisis, the Ministry of Water Resources has allowed contractors to raise Rs55 billion immediately for the payment of bills and meeting other necessary expenses through a government-guaranteed Sukuk. It has also asked for exemption from taxes and has prepared and sent a summary to the Economic Coordination Committee for approval.

According to documents available with The Express Tribune, it has been said in the summary sent to the ECC that all four units of Neelum-Jhelum hydropower project are operational and generating electricity depending on availability of water in Neelum River.

The summary also stated that since funds would be raised under the Islamic mode through Sukuk, it should be declared SLR-eligible security under Sections 13 and 29 of the Banking Companies Ordinance 1962, so that the cost burden was minimised.

Cheers Image

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7139
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Indus Water Treaty

Postby Peregrine » 07 May 2019 19:07

X Posted on the P E S W Thread

Federal govt revises up cost of Dasu hydropower project

ISLAMABAD: The federal government on Monday revised upward the land acquisition cost of under-construction Dasu hydroelectric power project by another 40% to address concerns of local population, which has increased its total cost to Rs510 billion.
Headed by Minister for Planning and Development, the Central Development Working Party (CDWP) increased the land component cost of the project from the original Rs12 billion to Rs39.6 billion. It was the second revision in the land cost, as earlier the last government had also jacked up the total cost to Rs19.1 billion from the original Rs12 billion.

Note : The project is part of the hydropower development projects included in the Vision 2025 Program developed by WAPDA in 2001, and the Power Policy 2013 of Government of Pakistan (GOP).

$3.78b Dasu dam loan may get lapsed, warns World Bank - Zafar Bhutta - : October 22, 2018

PM intervenes to save $4.3b Dasu dam project

U S DOLLAR RATE AGAINST TERRORISTANI RUPEE IN 2011 – US$ 1 = T. R. 86. Now US$ 1 = T. R. 141.50. IMF wants T.R. @ 150 to the US$ and the T.Govt has authorized its Electricity and Gas Companies to charge at T. R. @ 180 to the US$!

Cheers Image

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21030
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Prem » 09 May 2019 10:03

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india- ... ari-518903
If Pakistan doesn't stop terrorism, we won't have any other option but to stop river water: Nitin Gadkari

“Water is going to Pakistan from 3 rivers, we don't want to stop that. But the basis of the water treaty between India & Pakistan were peaceful relations and friendship which have completely vanished. So we are not bound to follow this treaty,” ANI quoted Union Minister Nitin Gadkari as saying.
The minister said that “Pakistan is continuously supporting terrorists”.“Pakistan is continuously supporting terrorists. If Pakistan doesn't stop terrorism, we won't have any other option but to stop river water to Pakistan. So India has started internally studying it. That water will go to Haryana, Punjab and Rajasthan,” Nitin Gadkari added.It is pertinent to mention here that since the Modi government has come to power, it is continuously acting tough on Pakistan-sponsored terrorism.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 09 May 2019 13:06

That's good news.

kancha
BRFite
Posts: 894
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 19:13

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby kancha » 10 May 2019 07:34

SSridhar wrote:That's good news.


That's great news, especially with regards to the choice of words!
Shared some thoughts on the same.
Blog Link
Twitter Link

This is BIG, folks!
Don’t dismiss it as a mere political statement in middle of an election season.
Let me explain how ..

Firstly, this is the first time someone as high up the decision making chain as a Union Minister has talked about the Indus Water Treaty in this manner.

He’s not talked about optimally exploiting waters of the three Eastern Rivers which in any case are ours as per the treaty. Neither is he talking about utilizing the waters of the Western Rivers to the extent the treaty permits India to do. (In fact, we STILL aren’t utilizing the Western River waters that are we are permitted, even though some steps have materialized in that direction)

What he talks instead is about stopping the flow of river waters into Pakistan.
Now by this, one can safely assume that he is definitely NOT talking about the three Western Rivers because stopping their flow is more or less impossible due to geographical constraints.

What he means is about the three Eastern Rivers, and amongst those too, the Ravi.
Now why Ravi?

Because the Beas in any case merges with the Sutlej well within Indian territory and the Sutlej itself is practically a trickle by the time it crosses the border into Pakistan.


But then, I see this statement of the Minister not for what I have written in the above. What stands out in the above statement is this phrase – PEACEFUL RELATIONS AND FRIENDSHIP.


Now before I elaborate upon that, let me tell you about the circumstances in which the Indus Water Treaty can be abrogated by any party – THERE ARE NONE!

Para 3 of Article XII of the Indus Water Treaty states: “The provisions of this Treaty may from time to time be modified by a duly ratified treaty concluded for that purpose between the two Governments.” Unquote

Para 4 of the same article says: “The provisions of this Treaty, or the provisions of this Treaty as modified under the provisions of Para 3, shall continue in force until terminated by a duly ratified treaty concluded for that purpose between the two Governments.” Unquote

So basically, there is just no exit clause for the treaty. It can never be unilaterally abrogated but instead, only be replaced by another treaty for formalizing the sharing of waters.

Now THIS is where the choice of words by the Minister is so significant.

‘Peaceful Relations and Friendship’ is what he said. Now where did this come from? For answers, refer the screenshot of the Preamble of the Indus Water Treaty below. The treaty was signed ‘In a Spirit of Goodwill and Friendship’!


In case the provisions of the treaty don’t permit unilateral abrogation, then lack of ‘Goodwill and Friendship’ could technically provide a way out. In case the very spirit behind the treaty is no longer existent, can the treaty itself hold?

Like I said – Technicalities!

And when a person of the stature of a Union Minister uses the same language, I’d prefer to believe that the same has, at the very least, been debated at the highest levels of the Govt.


What WILL happen in case the treaty is unilaterally abrogated / suspended by India is that own projects on the Western Rivers will no longer be forced to adopt sub-optimal designs due to whims of Pakistan leading to time consuming litigation / arbitration.

What WILL happen is that own projects will not suffer needless delays while we try to ‘satisfy’ Pakistani whims.

What WILL happen is that we shall no longer be bound to share the designs of own projects, making them further vulnerable to terror.

What WILL happen is that we will no longer be bound to abandon / modify own projects due to Pakistani ‘objections’.

tandav
BRFite
Posts: 357
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 08:24

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby tandav » 12 May 2019 07:57

Any water that China takes from Brahmaputra must also be debited from Pakistan's share in IWT

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66406
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby Singha » 12 May 2019 09:30

arabia is a desert, iran is most a desert - its time to accerlerate the creeping desertification of pakistan to make them more comfortable in arabi mahaul.

blochistan is a desert, in sindh only a strip of land along the indus is not a desert. west NWFP has a few green pockets but mostly dry hills with scarce water.

the jaguar vein of TSP in punjab and eastern NWFP+POK

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 417
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby mmasand » 29 May 2019 02:09

It will be interesting to see the after effects of the results of the GE in WB, in respect to the Teesta Water Treaty. Will a weaker state govt concede or compromise?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indus Water Treaty

Postby SSridhar » 29 May 2019 06:47

Why should it? In fact, the reverse would happen. It will be shriller. Nothing works better than to rouse emotions.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dhyana, Dumal and 61 guests