Pashtun Civil War

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ramana
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Pashtun Civil War

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 02:45

Please post all reports of the ongoing civil war in this thread. And please keep the discussion focussed and not bring in Mushy/Wushy.
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shiv wrote:Folks check this out

North and South Waziristan - out of control.
Bajaur and Mohmand agencies - getting out of control
Tank and Dera Ismail Khan in trouble.

Image

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 02:59

Relevant posts from the other thread.

anupmisra wrote:Some puki must have upset the BBC to have them write this article.

Pakistan army's tribal quagmire

BBC News, Karachi

The border area consists of large tracts of inhospitable terrain. At 11,000 feet, with the temperature dipping 10 degrees below freezing, an army pilot recalls how he was sweating from head to toe. :lol: There was a fault in the engine and he might crash at any moment. And while he could eject to safety, he would then be floating straight into the jaws of a death more dreadful than being charred inside a crashed jet.

"This is a country where soldiers are slaughtered," he told me after his dramatic flight. "Their bodies may be found, but not their heads." The pilot's comments are indicative of the sinking morale of the army. :((

During the last few months, military personnel have increasingly become targets of ambushes and kidnappings. The headless bodies of several kidnapped soldiers have been found, with messages from the militants warning the army to pull out of the area.

In some of the latest fighting on Monday, the army reported 50 troops missing when a supply convoy to one of the garrisons in the north eastern part of the district was ambushed. Local reports say all 50 were killed and their bodies set on fire. The army says only 25 were killed.

In August, militants in the neighbouring South Waziristan district kidnapped nearly 300 troops, including at least nine officers, who are yet to be released. Significantly, many of these troops are reported to have surrendered without firing a shot. This has landed the government in a tight spot.

One way of restoring the morale of the troops would be to go in with a clearly defined surgical operation, having a set time-frame. This could be followed by a prompt and efficient programme of economic aid and political reform aimed at winning friends and isolating the "enemies". But the government is arguably already past that stage, mainly due to its early policy of protecting the Taleban and their "foreign guests". (reap what you sow)

For months after the country joined the US-led "war on terror" in 2001, North and South Waziristan districts continued to serve as a transit point for Taleban, Arab and other foreign fighters escaping US military operations in Afghanistan. When it came under pressure from Western powers to do something about this, the government decided to send in the army.

That sidelined the tribal administration which had the experience of governing the tribal areas over the years. As a result, the army suffered disastrous losses in 2004. Soon after, it signed a string of peace treaties leaving the militants in virtual control of the region.

However, it did occasionally act on specific US intelligence to destroy the odd target, or claimed to have carried out a strike that was actually conducted by the US inside Pakistani territory.

Two such strikes in the tribal regions of Bajaur and South Waziristan in late 2006 and early 2007 enraged militant leaders who vowed revenge. In July, the army's storming of the radical Red Mosque in the country's capital, Islamabad, added fuel to the fire.

One way of restoring the morale of the troops would be to go in with a clearly defined surgical operation. The government described the occupants of the Red Mosque as militants, but they and their political allies said they were either religious students or innocent civilians.

In any event, the militants unilaterally cancelled their peace agreements with the government and started targeting the army and the police. Following peace deals with the militants, these troops were pulled out of check posts and were either deployed on the border with Afghanistan, or stationed in scores of fortified military posts dating from the British period.

Troops in North Waziristan are supplied from two roads, one coming in from the east and another from the north. Those in South Waziristan only have one supply road, which links Wana with Dera Ismail Khan, a city in the south of the North West Frontier Province. Once inside the tribal region, these supplies are transported via a network of roads and dirt tracks that connect various military posts. It is these roads and tracks that are most vulnerable.

Over the last couple of months, no supply convoy has traversed the region without the escort of a helicopter gunship. But combat troops are reluctant to face the militants on the ground, apparently because their knowledge of the area is limited and the "enemy" is indistinguishable from the civilian population. Isn't this what BRF has been saying for years?

Earlier this year, the army succeeded in evicting foreign fighters from Wana by supporting a Taleban commander, Maulvi Nazir. But in Mir Ali, another major hub of foreign militants linked to al-Qaeda, there is no evidence that such a similar strategy is going to be repeated.

The Pakistani military is well and truly bogged down.

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ramana wrote:Maybe this is the defeat of the TSP Army that I have been looking for to return them to the barracks and a return to normality. Its not the one in the "Dash to Indus".
Allah is mericful and acts in mysterious ways.

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enqyoob wrote:Wonder how to get the TSPA to commit, say, 700,000 into the NWFP. That would be a real "bogdown".

Then Baluchistan, Sindh and Balwaristan can declare independence, and the Waziris will make sure that what returns from the 700,000 won't even be wearing knickers.

Ramana, I don't see how the TSPA can return to their barracks in Pakjab at this point without total loss of Pakhtoonistan.

The other sweet thought is: What happens if somehow they lost the combat helicopter cover for the convoys? ( I don't yet see how that will happen, but bad weather is one condition...)

The morale does not seem to be at the level where there will be many herrowic stands. Mass panic is more like it, with a swift change in uniforms and elimination of the Pakjabi officer corpses.

Ramana, the mountains there may become known as the Paki Kush. Or the MushiKush. The reported ambushes are larger in scale than those against the Russian forces in A'Stan.

Total Russian losses were reported at some 17000 killed and maybe another 50,000 wounded but evacuated. Paki Fauj losses are heading to that range very fast - some 4000 in 2004, and now it's going at around 250 per week. Some Paki reported a few weeks back that the total was more than the sum of the 1965 and '71 losses (each around 3000 to 4000). That means total is > 7000 already, now past 8000, assuming that the "missing" or "kidnapped" are dead. Otherwise, 7000 dead, maybe 5000 switched sides already.

(Incidentally, that means that Kargil was much worse than either of those - 4000+ dead)

Somehow the British loss of 15000 doesn't seem that massive anymore.

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ramana wrote:We on BRF except for Paul have been remiss in spotting the Pashtun civil war in the FATA area. Most of us were fooled by the TSP-US reports of AlQ and Taliban revivial. Yes they are also involved but the bigger picture is the Pashtuns are rising in revolt and the historical compact between the Pakjabis and Pashtuns is over. And Indian kaccha folks are still uncooked and have not recognised the elephant from the mice.

Where is the outcry in Indian media about the civil war.?


The sad part is just as in 1975-1977, when the Baloch rose in revolt agaisnt Bhutto, India is busy with internal foolery to take advantage of the situation. And uncle ensures that we stay fooled.

We need to have a separate thread on that to minimize noise.

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vinayak_dangui wrote:The pashtuns need to ally with the Baloch for their common cause of independence from the pakjabis. I hope the stupid, senile morons comprising the Indian govt don't hold RAW back from making use of this god sent opportunity.

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Postby Omar » 10 Oct 2007 04:00

Chronology of Pakistan Militant Clashes

Can somebody can provide a more complete including all the 'gas cylinder' explosions, 'electrical fires', etc.etc. ?

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 04:00

Rediff:

Why is the Pakistan army scared of this man?

note the date: 10 March, 2006

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Postby Sanjay M » 10 Oct 2007 04:50

I prefer not to see it as the Pashtun Civil War.

I prefer to see it as the Pakjabi attempt to Dominate the Pashtuns.

I'm rooting for the Pashtuns, of course.

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Postby JCage » 10 Oct 2007 05:26

I am rooting for both and hope for as high a body count as possible on both sides. They deserve it. Both of them.

The Pashtuns are savages, need to be civilized and made into Pakistanis.
The Pakjabis are cunning oppressors and need to be eradicated from the Pushtun homelands.

Play both sides, and enjoy the fun.

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Postby Prem » 10 Oct 2007 05:46

My opinion is that Indians should extend all possible moral and diplomatic suppot to supressed Pashtoons. We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.

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Postby sunilUpa » 10 Oct 2007 05:52

Prem wrote:My opinion is that Indians should extend all possible moral and diplomatic suppot to supressed Pashtoons. We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.


Blah...just make sure they get all the stuff to blow each other up. Higher the body count better, whether it is brave Pakistani fauj or Pathan terrorist.

MIRAN SHAH, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting — the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terror in 2001.

The attack on Epi village in North Waziristan tribal region killed dozens of militants and civilians — deaths that are likely to harden domestic opposition to President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's alliance with Washington.

The bazaar was crowded with people buying food to break their daylong Ramadan fast when it was rocked by a dozen explosions that destroyed shops and nearby homes, residents said. Abdul Sattar, a grocery shop owner, said he counted more than 60 dead and more than 150 wounded, including many civilians. Many of the victims were mutilated.

"Some did not have heads, hands or legs. Some people were searching for their children and women," Sattar told The Associated Press by telephone from Epi.


link

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Postby Muppalla » 10 Oct 2007 05:54

Is Osama being handed over? BR has predicted many eons ago that Osama might be in Army barracks or post army quarters of Rawalpindi.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/sto ... d=10468983

Bin Laden may be in city, not cave: ex-spy chief

LONDON - Osama bin Laden could hide more easily in a city than a remote tribal region, a former Pakistani intelligence chief said on Tuesday, challenging the notion that the al Qaeda leader is probably holed up in a mountain cave.

Lieutenant-General Asad Durrani, former head of the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI), said news of outsiders' presence travels fast in the tribal areas and it would be hard to keep it secret for years.

"In the countryside or in tribal areas ... it's difficult to hide yourself because there people live ... and operate in a manner in which finding out about unusual presence is very important," Durrani told Reuters in an interview in London.

He said it was true that tribal customs placed great value on showing hospitality and not betraying a guest. "In the tribal code, anyone who seeks your protection has to be defended, if necessary with your life."

However, he added: "I am not sure over a period of four, five or six years that it would be possible even for the tribesmen to keep his presence under wraps."

Such information would have traveled or been divulged, given the incentives, Durrani said in a reference to the $25 million US bounty on bin Laden's head.

"My conclusion therefore is it's extremely unlikely that he is around that place."

On the run

In the six years since the September 11 attacks on the United States and subsequent US invasion of Afghanistan, Western intelligence officials have frequently said they suspect he is hiding somewhere in the inaccessible mountains along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

"This is a man on the run in a cave who is virtually impotent other than his ability to get these messages out," White House homeland security adviser Fran Townsend said last month when bin Laden issued his first new video for nearly three years.


Durrani said an urban centre could provide a better refuge.

"Why not a big city? Anywhere in Pakistan, Afghanistan. Anywhere outside the region where it is easier to keep cover," he said. "These are the places where you can hide yourself much better."

Other top al Qaeda figures associated with the September 11 attacks have been captured in Pakistani cities -- alleged plotter Ramzi Binalshibh in Karachi in September 2002 and self-confessed plan mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in Rawalpindi in March 2003.

Pakistan has seen an upsurge in violence since July, when militants scrapped a peace deal with authorities in the tribal region of North Waziristan and army commandos stormed a radical mosque in the capital, Islamabad. US intelligence officials fear al Qaeda is using the tribal areas as a safe haven in which to rebuild its strength.

Durrani said he was concerned that next week's expected court ruling on the whether President Pervez Musharraf is eligible for re-election and the return of exiled opposition leader Benazir Bhutto could provide a focus for further attacks.

"She (Bhutto) will have to take extraordinary security measures," he said.

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Postby vsudhir » 10 Oct 2007 05:55

I can sympathize with those who fear this fight will be quelled and some kinda 'workable' normalcy will return to Pakhtunkhwa.

I too shudder at the thought. However, hope springs eternal.

History's littered with too many instances where bad things happen that nobody involved wanted. Such as WWI for instance.

Who knows now that a very loooong civil war, unwinnable for all sides and one that no side involved (pakjab, pushtu and yamriki) wants?

RAW maynot be able to do much but can at least seed some terrible ideas in that fertile land? Such as the idea of vaccinating captured pakjabi troops with some HIV etc before magnanimously setting them free, eh?.... that'll ensure they wont get a muzlim burial thanQ, no medals or obituaries either. Also, some of 'em yamriki dollahs spent on porki mil hospitals....... also, good material to recruit suicide bombers from....

Just a thought.

Imagine what all fertile thoughts a RAW could come up with and seed around in FATA.....

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Postby Paul » 10 Oct 2007 06:03

I think Bacha Khan was a very shrewd person and launched non violent Pashtun nationalsim for the very reason that we see in NWFP now. The Pakhtoons are a very violent people and a violent struggle would lead to NWFP becoming a graveyard. Aside from this, it could lead to Pakhtun loss of supremacy in Afghanistan as is heppening now.

In other words, he did not want the road to Pakhtunistan to be littered with Pakhtun dead bodies as is happening now. When he saw what Congress under Gandhiji was doing, IOW fighting for Indian independence in a nonviolent and at the same time building Indian unity and character, he opted to do the same for his people. Too bad for the Pakhtuns, the Brits opted to create a RAPE class and outsource control of NWFP to them.

A very shrewd and Chalu person, that Bacha Khan....

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Postby Muppalla » 10 Oct 2007 06:09

I think there will be massive genocide here. We might not see much alive. What is the realistic population count? How many days and how many daisy cutters are needed to wipe the pasthuns out of that place?Afghanistan is NATO backyard hence no help from Talibs of Afghanistan.

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Postby Muppalla » 10 Oct 2007 06:18

http://news.myspace.com/politics/terror ... m/10799659

The Pakistani military has repeatedly understated casualties of troops fighting against the Taliban and al Qaeda in the Northwest Frontier Province. The military claimed about 1,000 troops were killed during the Waziristan campaigns in 2004 through 2006. The real number is thought to be well over 3,000 Pakistani troops killed.

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Postby SSridhar » 10 Oct 2007 07:56

Rather than a Pakjabi Vs. Pashtun fight, it is more a IIF (comprising of Taliban/AlQ/LeT/JeM/HuJI/HuA/Jundallah) Vs. the ruling junta fight. The IIF is trying to liberate the Pashtun area (on both sides of the Durand) to setup its base there. The roguish elements of ISI are helping it. The Pashtun component of the TSPA could defect en masse. Even many Pakjabis could support such a development because there is widespread support within TSP for radical Islam.

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Postby JE Menon » 10 Oct 2007 11:47

>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.

Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud

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Postby Singha » 10 Oct 2007 12:34

LATIMES: wow open bombing of the towns now...

MIRAM SHAH, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting, the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in 2001.

The attack on the village of Epi in the North Waziristan tribal region killed dozens of Islamic militants and civilians and was likely to harden domestic opposition to President Pervez Musharraf's alliance with Washington.

Epi area residents said a dozen explosions destroyed shops and homes. Grocery shop owner Abdul Sattar said he counted more than 60 dead and more than 150 wounded, including many civilians.

Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said that military aircraft targeting militant hide-outs struck "one or two places" outside Epi and that residents reported about 50 militants were killed.

He said the airstrikes might have killed some civilians living in areas where militant hide-outs were targeted, but he had no numbers.

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Postby amit » 10 Oct 2007 12:54

Singha wrote:LATIMES: wow open bombing of the towns now...

MIRAM SHAH, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting, the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in 2001.


Now, now is that Paki aircraft bombing or is it NATO bombing with Pakis taking the rap?

This sound so famliar:

Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said that military aircraft targeting militant hide-outs struck "one or two places" outside Epi and that residents reported about 50 militants were killed.
He said the airstrikes might have killed some civilians living in areas where militant hide-outs were targeted, but he had no numbers.

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Postby Raja » 10 Oct 2007 13:04

Well, a lot of these areas have never been really under the control of Pakistan. A question that needs to be asked is if the current campaign will expand the real boundaries of Pakistan - thanks to peace at LoC and funds from USA. Should we not be using the time to settle things in North East?

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Postby sunilUpa » 10 Oct 2007 15:18

Fighting Resumes in Northwest Pakistan
By BASHIRULLAH KHAN – 3 hours ago

MIRAN SHAH, Pakistan (AP) — Shelling resumed early Wednesday in an area of northwest Pakistan where battles between troops and militants have killed up to 250 people and sent thousands more fleeing, witnesses said.

The five days of clashes in the North Waziristan region near the Afghan border are the deadliest since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terror in 2001.

An Associated Press reporter in Miran Shah, the region's main town, heard a burst of artillery or mortar fire before dawn on Wednesday. Farid Ullah, a resident of nearby Mir Ali, said the shells had hit houses in that town.

"I have not dared to go outside, so I don't know if there anyone was hurt," Ullah said by telephone.

Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said that while artillery may have been fired, no major incidents took place overnight.

On Tuesday, residents said Pakistani aircraft bombed the nearby village of Epi, killing dozens of militants and civilians and injuring many more, including shoppers in a packed bazaar.

The army said the planes were targeting militant hideouts near Mir Ali and that local tribesmen reported about 50 militants were killed.

Arshad said Tuesday that the airstrikes might have killed some civilians, but he had no exact numbers.

link

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Postby rohitvats » 10 Oct 2007 15:55

Just summing up the developments so far without going into the details (read doing in depth research).The FATA & NWFP have never been under the control of the government in modern sense. IMHO, there were two underlying reasons for the same; the Pashtuns have resisted tightfisted control by anybody and do not welcome any interference in their affairs and way of life. It is like a hornet’s nest. As long as you do not disturb it, it won’t do any harm to you. The main force behind mobilizing Afghan’s against the Soviet was the perception that Soviets/communists will try and destroy Afghan way of life. This later metamorphosed into jihad and became the clarion call for the faithful around the globe. For an Afghan, it was a simple matter of fighting for his right to live as he wanted to. Also, for those across the border in Pakistan, it was helping out the cousins and fellow tribesmen. Another important reason was the sensitive issue of Durand Line, something which Pak government has always tried to play down. They left the Pakhtuns to their way and their Jirgas. The government was more than happy to let the things be as they are.
Another important point to keep in mind is that while the Pakhtuns are conservative in their outlook and interpretation of Islam, they are not fundamentalist. This is true for the tribes on both sides of the border. As stated above, it was not difficult to mobilize the Afghan’s to find against the Soviets. The guise of jihad was for the faithful within Pakistan and Muslims across the globe. The mask which hid the true intentions of Uncle & it’s pappu in Afghanistan. It also helped in mobilizing support from the cash rich Sheikhs who are ever ready to dole out cash for so called Islamic causes to keep their currency high amongst the local populace (it does not matter if the yatch they own is calls “titsâ€

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 19:39

Rohit, If you can post that much with out doing in depth research think how much more you could with a little bit of reasearch! Thanks for the post. Keep thinking and researching.

Folks, This FATA WANA not under control stuff has been posted for a long time. But think back two ~ three hundred years and you find it was quite well under control. Afghanistan became a rentier state during the British period and that is the problem. This story line is propaganda to depict them as some wild and sub-human savages so that extreme force can be justified in the modern era. BTW, the British used RAF(Wapitis?) in 1920s to suppress them. That was first use of airpower in suppressing civil disorder. Since then this line of not under control has been the official line.

All the Pashtuns (25%) settled in the Indus lowlands are akin to the Scottish low landers and are the Sarkari Pashtuns who were allowed to settle by Aurangzeb. The Brits just continued the policy.

I think the current Pashtun resurgence is due to the suppression of their dreams to integrate with modern India. This thwarted ambtions are being channeled into the struggle against the TSP state.

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Postby surinder » 10 Oct 2007 20:02

JE Menon wrote:>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.

Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud


Shhhhh. Don't say that. He is more Gandhier than Frontier Gandhi. Why should we criticise him?

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Postby surinder » 10 Oct 2007 20:05

Let me ask a question: How difficult is it to hop onto a train or a bus and take a ride to Lahore or Rawalpindindi from all the tribal places?

If it is not too difficult, then why are the tribals not taking short trip to do what they do best?

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Postby abhischekcc » 10 Oct 2007 20:14

Singha wrote:LATIMES: wow open bombing of the towns now...

MIRAM SHAH, PAKISTAN -- Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting, the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in 2001.


Well, at least the F-16s are now being used for the very purpose they said they were gifting it to pakjabis - to kill innocent pakis/terrorists. :D

Who woulda thot it - that unkle can speak the truth too? :P

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Postby JCage » 10 Oct 2007 20:21

JE Menon wrote:>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.

Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud


Hats off JEM, hats off!! :D

Prem,

We indeed owe the Pashtuns. We owe them for 1948. We owe them for all the marauding raids into current India and being the rentier mercenaries of every tinpot Islamic tyrant.

We also owe the Pakjabis.

We should repay our debts by providing support to both sides, and as typical evil indoo banias, supporting both sides. Thats what we are supposed to do right according to their propoganda? Time to live up to the rep.

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 20:34

Jcage, We need to support them based on Chanakya's dictum "An enemy of an enemy is a friend!" BTW I believe if they join Afghanistan then they will be the majority in greater Afghanistan and eventually can turn around once the ME becomes Nestorian.

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What sparked the deadly clashes in tribal Pakistan

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Oct 2007 20:40

What sparked the deadly clashes in tribal Pakistan

B Raman Speaks...posting in full.

About 200 members of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, the jihadi group allied to Al Qaeda , and the Pashtun tribal group led by Baitullah Mehsud and about a hundred members of the Pakistani security forces -- mostly para-military personnel -- have been killed in violent clashes around the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan since October 6. The clashes started after the terrorists ambushed a convoy of the security forces in North Waziristan, inflicting an undisclosed number of fatalities and capturing some Pakistani security personnel.

The dead bodies of the some of the security forces personnel were later found abandoned with their throats slit. A jirga of leading North Waziristan clerics led by former member of the National Assembly, Maulana Nek Zaman Haqqani, after daylong negotiations, received 30 bodies of the slain soldiers from the jihadis in Khaisur and handed them over to military officials in Mir Ali.

The News, a well-informed daily newspaper, quoted an unidentified jirga member as claiming on October 8, that the jirga members had recovered 73 bodies of soldiers, majority of which were burnt or badly mutilated, from the Mir Ali villages that they had visited.

Malik Sher Khan, a local tribal elder, said 45 bodies of soldiers had been handed over to military officials in Mir Ali. Quoting a local government official, The News reported as follows: 'Very few of the over 200 soldiers besieged by militants on Sunday (October 7) seem to have survived after the deadliest ever attack on them.'

Following the discovery of over a dozen mutilated dead bodies, either beheaded or with their throats slit, of paramilitary personnel captured earlier by Baitullah Mehsud's men, the paramilitary forces ran amok. Some surrendered to the terrorists, others discarded their uniforms and took shelter in the homes of the residents of the area and some others went on a killing spree, indiscriminately killing the local villagers and the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs living in Mir Ali. :D :D

The Pakistani security forces retaliated initially with ground troops and helicopter gunships. Subsequently, unable to prevail over the jihadi forces, they called for an air strike. Major General Waheed Arshad, an army spokesman, claimed in a TV interview that Pakistan Air Force planes targeted militant hideouts and struck 'one or two places' near Mir Ali. Local villagers said PAF aircraft also bombed a village near Mir Ali called Hader Khel. There was a large number of fatalities of civilians on October 9, when some bombs fell on a crowded village market.

Till March, Mir Ali used to be the headquarters of the Islamic Jihad Group, a break-away group of the IMU. It is also known as the Islamic Jihad Union. It ran a number of training camps there where jihadis from many countries, including Germany , China's Xinjiang, and Pakistan itself were trained by Uzbek and Chechen instructors. The IMU's headquarters used to be in the Azam Warsak area of South Waziristan.

This area became the scene of violent attacks by sections of the local tribals on the Uzbeks living in the area following the alleged murder of a local tribal personality by an Uzbek resident of the area in the third week of March. In the ensuing clashes, nearly 100 persons were killed -- about 70 Uzbeks and the remaining locals mainly belonging to the Darikhel and the Tojikhel sub-tribes of the Pashtuns. The Yargulkhel sub-tribe led by Noor Islam and his brother Haji Omar, two important pro-Taliban military commanders who had once fought in Afghanistan, supported the Uzbeks in their fight against the Darikhels and the Tojkhels. Some Yargulkhels were also killed. Ultimately, the IMU was forced to evacuate South Waziristan and shift to Mir Ali.

Following this, I had reported, 'According to well-informed sources in the police of the North-West Frontier Province, the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan is under the effective control of the IMU headed by Qari Tahir Yaldeshev. Small groups of Chechens and Uighurs are also present in the area. They work under the overall command of Qari Tahir. They were being helped by Maulana Sadiq Noor, a local tribal leader close to the Neo Taliban.

'The IMU, with the help of Chechen instructors, has set up training camps in the area for training the recruits of the Neo Taliban, the jihadi terrorist organisations of Pakistan and individual jihadis from abroad -- particularly from the Pakistani Diaspora abroad. In a report on the ground situation in the North Waziristan area, the Dawn of Karachi stated as follows on July 29: 'The problem now is that the situation in Miranshah has worsened to an unusual extent. In a letter to the government, that sounded more like a lamentation, a political agent stated that the khasadars (tribal police) had abandoned their duty without seeking his permission. All those appointed for 599 posts of the levies force had renounced their responsibilities and officers of the line departments had left their offices at the mercy of watchmen. Little wonder then that a line department office and a check-post are blown up every day. Junior tribal officers and moharrirs (clerks) have not reported for work and tribal elders remain too scared to meet the political administration for fear of reprisal attacks from militants.'


Independent sources say that there is a total administrative collapse in the area, with very little governance. This chaos and anarchy have been spreading to the adjoining Bannu and other areas of the NWFP. The Pakistan Army, despite the claims of General Pervez Musharraf , is not in a position to restore its authority in the area. At the same time, it is reluctant to let the US forces in nearby Afghan territory mount covert actions against these elements lest it further aggravate the jihadi anger against Musharraf in the tribal and non-tribal areas.

Instead of making too many statements on the options available to the US, which are proving counter-productive, the US should authorise its commanders on the ground in the Afghan territory to mount any covert action in Pakistani territory in the North Waziristan area within a certain depth, if such action is warranted by intelligence of terrorist operations under preparation.

After the Pakistani commando raid in Islamabad's Lal Masjid between July 10 and 13, the Mehsuds of Baitullah joined hands with the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group and started instigating suicide terrorist attacks not only in FATA areas and the NWFP, but also outside the tribal belt -- even in places like Islamabad and Rawalpindi.
Coinciding with the raid, the government sent reinforcements of security forces to North Waziristan. This was interpreted by sections of the local tribals as a violation of the peace agreement signed with them by the Pakistan Army in September 2006, and as a prelude to attacks on the headquarters of the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group.

They kidnapped nearly 300 members of the paramilitary forces and threatened to kill them at the rate of three a day if their followers in government custody were not released and the reinforcements were not withdrawn.

Following the arrest in Germany in September of three German Muslims trained in the camps of the Islamic Jihad Group in the Mir Ali area, who were allegedly planning to attack a US military base in Germany, the Musharraf government came under increased pressure from the US to act against the pro-Al Qaeda jihadis in the Mir Ali area.

There was similar pressure from the Chinese, who were concerned over the attacks on Chinese nationals working in Pakistan after the Lal Masjid raid. Even apart from these pressures, the worsening security situation in the tribal belt forced the Pakistani security forces to act against the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs and their local tribal supporters.

Reports from the NATO forces in Afghanistan of the presence of increasing numbers of Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs with the Neo Taliban forces operating in Afghan territory added to the pressure for action. Responding to these pressures, the Pakistani government started sending further reinforcements to the area. It was a jihadi attack on one of the convoys carrying these reinforcements which triggered off the latest round of deadly clashes.


link

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Postby Lalmohan » 10 Oct 2007 20:48

what has this additional violence meant for US troops in Afghanisatan? Better or worse? Given that the lalmasjid clearout seems to have been clearly signalled by Beijing - was this a calculated move to make Unkil's position in Afghanistan as difficult as Iraq? the brave kammandu in the middle just has to do the cat on the hot tin roof act to please his masters

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 20:55

I agree that initally the struggle in FATA/WANA is based on Islamic elements from the spillover from Afganistan. However I believe that it is now a freedom struggle and Raman should look at it from that POV. It is a freedom struggle with an Islamic elements in control as there is no other option. All 'secular'/modernized types were already shaeedized or marginalized by TSP long ago eg. Frontier Gandhi and his son. How many know that one of his sons was assasinated in the early fifties when he was a Minister? The whole area was mullaized to bring them into the Nazariya e- Pakistan dogma. Modern outlook folks were marginalized or worse shaeedized over the last 60 years.

Also folks a lots of good info. Can some one put all this on a PPT map of the area? One picture is worth a thousand words and all that?

Others can start digging up news reports from local press and in addition to the BBC versions.

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Postby SwamyG » 10 Oct 2007 21:01

Here is FATA's homepage: http://fata.gov.pk/

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Postby Aditya G » 10 Oct 2007 21:31

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/10pspec.htm

Like the Taliban, Baitullah's 20,000-strong private army -- which according to experts has hundreds of foreigners, mostly Uzbeks -- has a task force that prevents 'vice' and promotes 'virtue.'


Thats a BIG enemy .... and it is just one of many :shock:

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Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2007 21:43

For completeness. 8)

parsuram wrote:Surinder, Ramana:

There is no need to have any pity for those pushtuns. Ranjit Singh (and later, the British) had very good, sound reasons to annex parts of Afghanistan now called "NWFP". For over 2100 years death and destruction had rained down on India from the Khyber (and Bolan) passes. It was imperitive to control these two entry points into India (particularly since the Brits had secured the oceans). Arguably, India was entirely secured from external threats from 1919-1947. In todays nuclear age all that is of little importance. That does not take away the fact that much of Afghanistan was traditionally Indian land. And given the PRCees claiming every slip of land that was ever, even in passing, under Chinese control, we should not be promoting afghan annexation of NWFP. All that, and eastern afghanistan was Indian land, and not just in passing. Its another matter that the inhabitants of that land have been living a miserable existance for thousands of years - perhaps on account of Krishna's curse on Shakuni & Gandhar after the Mahabharat war :)

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Postby sunilUpa » 10 Oct 2007 21:48

Al Jazeera video, Mir Ali residents (former residents)

link

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Postby Prem » 10 Oct 2007 21:49

JCage wrote:
JE Menon wrote:>>We owe them a favour in the name of Gaffar Khan.

Frontier Gandhi Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan was a man worthy of support. But his replacement today is Frontier Gandu Baitullah Mehsud


Hats off JEM, hats off!! :D

Prem,

We indeed owe the Pashtuns. We owe them for 1948. We owe them for all the marauding raids into current India and being the rentier mercenaries of every tinpot Islamic tyrant.

We also owe the Pakjabis.

We should repay our debts by providing support to both sides, and as typical evil indoo banias, supporting both sides. Thats what we are supposed to do right according to their propoganda? Time to live up to the rep.


Afghanistan being part of ancient India sould be part of Indian Strategic Width and strategic Dea..th of Bakistan .
Baitullu may be Gandu but we have to make sure that onlee Bakis are the recipient of his Gandugiri . Gaffar Khan is still respected by Pashtoons and we should utilize this in our favour .My theory is anything which weakens Baki Fauj should get moral, material support from Indians. This will hasten their demise. Afghanistan being a rentier state should be supported generously by India. GOI wil be well advised by allocating separate annual "Defence Budget" :) for Afghanistan from 2010 onward.

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Postby surinder » 10 Oct 2007 22:13

Prem wrote:Baitullu may be Gandu but we have to make sure that onlee Bakis are the recipient of his Gandugiri.


The british thought of all Indians as useless garbage. They supported the weaker one to counter the stronger one. Uncle, also does the same---it probably likes neither India nor TSP, but supports TSP to keep India down. That is the game called divide-and-rule. It does not come naturally to us. Despite what the Pashtuns did in 1948 and all other times, our interest lies in increasing their strength. So using uncle's strategy: demonize TSP Army, eulogize Baituallah and highlight his suffering. If and when Baitullah supersedes TSP army in strength, do the reverse (but that will happen not with Baitullah, but wth n-th avatar of Baitullah. But that is not our problem.)

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Postby Prem » 10 Oct 2007 22:21

Surinder ,
We stick to Gaffar Khan onlee. Let there be many freedom fighters like Baitullah under the big blanket of great Khan. I hope Indian Consulates in Afghanistan display huge portraits of Frointier Gandhi.

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Postby JCage » 10 Oct 2007 22:23

Gents, wake up- Gaffar Khan is dead and long gone. In the whole of Pakhtoonistan or what it would include, there will be all of 2-300 acolytes who would be willing to do what he did, and in all probablitiy they'll be shot dead moment they tried.

Baitullah Mehsud is a barbaric Muslim medievalist. Given a choice he'd be slitting Hindu/Sikh/Indian Muslim throats. As circumstances would have it, hes fighting his Paki masters.

The Pakis themselves are Grade A mofos who represent the worst of what Islam came to represent in India. Bigoted supremacists who would gladly plunder, pillage, rape, kill any non Muslim who opposes their wet dreams of Islamic supremacy and flying the flag over the Red fort.
But in their quest for power, they will not countenance the local feudatory acting smart, so the central power will strike them down.

Parallels in history? Look no further than the Mughals as I have always maintained. The modern asisine facade of the liberal Mughals apart (so liberal that the Sikhs became a military org) they acted in much the same way.

So please- lets leave the emotion aside, and lets realise what we are.

We are infidels, polytheist idolaters and we have suffered constantly thanks to these lunatic barbaric mass murderers, whether they be romanticized Pashtoons or whisky drinking Pak Generals.

Its in our interest, that they murder each other to the last man and are BOTH weakened.

Not support just one against the other. The more dead Pakistanis the better. That means less dead Indians thanks to these Islamic fundoos coming across the border and slitting the throats of Indian Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims.

Lets not romanticize this by bringing in Gaffar Khan. Hes dead. Gone. Dead as a dodo.

Mehsud is alive. Vibrant and dangerous. Like a snake.

And hes fighting another gang of vipers.

Watch the fun and cheer the bites!!

Raju

Postby Raju » 10 Oct 2007 22:35

I have a problem with copy,paste facility. So I can't post that story.

But if somebody can google News with keywords 'Lucknow, Afghan', and post the incident in that first item of search result, it would be nice.

By the way population of Pashtuns is 30 million only, Kerala alone can take care of them if need be.

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Postby JCage » 10 Oct 2007 22:40

Here you go:

Link

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Postby sunilUpa » 10 Oct 2007 22:40

But if somebody can google News with keywords 'Lucknow, Afghan', and post the incident in that first item of search result, it would be nice.


This one?


link
Last edited by sunilUpa on 10 Oct 2007 22:59, edited 1 time in total.


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