India and ASEAN / East Asia

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Chandragupta
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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Chandragupta » 27 Jan 2018 15:21

disha wrote:^ All those feats being correct, one does have to ask - "What China offers to the global economy" !? Of course cheap manufacturing. What else?


Not just that. China has an unparalleled pool of skill which exists nowhere else in the world. They have ecosystems catering to almost every industry on the planet. That's no easy feat and is the result of single minded focus on manufacturing almost anything in the world.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby chola » 27 Jan 2018 15:38

Chandragupta wrote:
disha wrote:^ All those feats being correct, one does have to ask - "What China offers to the global economy" !? Of course cheap manufacturing. What else?


Not just that. China has an unparalleled pool of skill which exists nowhere else in the world. They have ecosystems catering to almost every industry on the planet. That's no easy feat and is the result of single minded focus on manufacturing almost anything in the world.


It goes way beyond that these days.

1. Yes, they not only offer manufacturing eco-systems for every industry imaginable,

2. they also have the infrastructure and, more importantly, the infrastructure building capacity to facilicate flow of products to anywhere in the world,

3. and they have the financial muscle, through their forex pile and printing press, to build out the above two points.

Products, logistics and money. That is basically global trade.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Chandragupta » 27 Jan 2018 17:05

Exactly, Chola ji. It is not wise to undermine the Chinese by saying they are only good for cheap manufacturing.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby disha » 28 Jan 2018 12:06

Chandragupta wrote:Exactly, Chola ji. It is not wise to undermine the Chinese by saying they are only good for cheap manufacturing.


To put it rhetorically, just telling the truth that they are only good for cheap manufacturing is not undermining them. It is just calling out the truth.

Just to give you an example:

1. Energy

1.1 Solar cells

First Solar Is Using Robots to Better Tap the Sun – There are just a few dozen workers scattered about; before the renovation, there were hundreds. The company acknowledges that it cut jobs, but it says the ones that remain are safer and pay better. The panels produce 244 percent more power at a manufacturing cost of as little as 20¢ per watt, about 30 percent less than the cheapest Chinese equivalent. – and it represents the fundamental aspect of the solar panel manufacturing boom of recent years – robotics, not massive amounts of labor. First Solar will not bear the consequences of tariffs and is making the cheapest solar panels in the world. Probably not a bad place to be…
(from electrek)

Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-24/first-solar-is-using-robots-to-better-tap-the-sun

2. Trains, Planes & Automobiles. Yeah, Chinese have world beating companies in all three.

3. And here is one more:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-11/china-has-the-world-s-biggest-productivity-problem

4. Pharmaceuticals: US, France, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Denmark ... where is China?

I can go on and on ...

===

It is actually fashionable to state that it is unwise to undermine's China's manufacturing prowess. I look at all the future industries and I find that China is nowhere there.
Last edited by disha on 28 Jan 2018 12:22, edited 1 time in total.

disha
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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby disha » 28 Jan 2018 12:21

Chandragupta wrote:
Not just that. China has an unparalleled pool of skill which exists nowhere else in the world. They have ecosystems catering to almost every industry on the planet. That's no easy feat and is the result of single minded focus on manufacturing almost anything in the world.


The bolded part is plain wrong. Yes they have a great pool of skilled people and so does other countries and yes they have great infrastructure as Chola'ji points out.

But we are making our own straw man to fear when we unnecessarily say "China has an unparalleled pool of skill which exists nowhere in the world".

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby SSridhar » 31 Jan 2018 09:09

The balancing act, in India-ASEAN ties - Rajiv Bhatia, The Hindu
When you stand at the peak of a mountain, you get a full view of the path travelled and the road ahead that will take you to the next peak. The principal gain of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-India Commemorative Summit, held in New Delhi last week, is to provide ample clarity on what their partnership has achieved and where it should move in the future.

Scope for cooperation

A good way to begin is to listen to ASEAN voices. The participation of ASEAN leaders in a second summit in Delhi in five years and their historic presence as chief guests at the Republic Day celebrations convey a clear message: India is important to ASEAN; it is viewed as a benign power; and huge scope exists to develop cooperation with it.

“We believe,” said Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong as co-chair of the summit, “that India makes a major contribution to regional affairs, helping to keep the regional architecture open, balanced and inclusive.”


Recent developments in the Indo-Pacific region have lent special significance to the summit. China’s economic progress is welcomed, with every ASEAN nation keen to derive optimal benefit from it. But Beijing’s assertive diplomacy, strategic postures and coercive action in the South China Sea have combined to sour the environment. U.S. President Donald Trump, on the other hand, gives the impression that ASEAN’s priorities and concerns are unimportant. This mix has impelled ASEAN states to expect and encourage India to enhance its role as a balancer in the region.

For India, ASEAN is of vital importance both for strategic and economic considerations. New Delhi seeks to redefine the contours of its neighbourhood. Constraints and setbacks in South Asia and opportunities in Southeast Asia have led it to blur the traditional distinction between ‘immediate neighbourhood’ and ‘extended neighbourhood’. Friendly South Asians and welcoming Southeast Asians now constitute our new neighbourhood, with an eastward tilt.

Key areas

The summit’s Delhi Declaration reflects a mutual commitment “to further deepen and strengthen” the strategic partnership. Of its 36 paragraphs, nine are devoted to political-security cooperation and socio-cultural exchanges each, while 11 paragraphs deal with economic issues. The remaining sections refer to connectivity and cooperation in narrowing the development gap. Taken together, the measures, spelt out with precision, reveal the bold path the two sides have pledged to follow.

On political and security cooperation, two themes stand out. Freedom of navigation and overflight “in the region” is of the highest importance. How the two sides deepen maritime cooperation and to what extent it is extended to practical collaboration among the navies of major ASEAN states and India will be watched closely. The other theme relates to India’s support to ASEAN efforts to obtain a legally binding Code of Conduct with China in the South China Sea. An unspoken idea, which may have been covered in bilateral meetings, is how to engage nations such as Indonesia, Vietnam, Singapore and others in the deliberations that ‘the Quad’ members — the U.S., India, Japan and Australia — have already launched.

Consensus emerged on elevating the existing — rather limited — trade and economic cooperation to a higher level. Full utilisation of the ASEAN-India Free Trade Area and “the swift conclusion” of a modern, comprehensive and high quality Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) are the next steps. Of course, the RCEP should be “mutually beneficial”, but note that the adjective “balanced”, preferred by India, is missing from the text. New Delhi does not have the option to stay out of the RCEP, but it needs ASEAN’s support to secure an acceptable bargain. Tough negotiations lie ahead.

The plan to expand socio-cultural cooperation is straightforward: just scale up and diversify exchanges in the desired fields. Separately, Thailand’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Don Pramudwinai built a case for “Moral Connectivity” which places people at the centre of inter-state relations.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a significant point by wisely including Islam in the list of common bonds, together with the Ramayana and Buddhism. “Islam, in many parts of Southeast Asia,” he said, “has distinctive Indian connections going back several centuries.” The Declaration commits the parties to enhancing physical and digital connectivity. It also reflects ASEAN’s appreciation for India’s assistance in bridging the development gap between its older and newer member states. As the year of celebrations and colourful spectacles ends, it is time to begin the hard work. Diverse stakeholders, both in India and ASEAN, have a huge responsibility to shoulder.

Rajiv Bhatia is Distinguished Fellow, Gateway House, and a former Ambassador to Myanmar

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Philip » 31 Jan 2018 20:03

The moot point is whether India will come to the aid of ASEAN nations if China attacks any of them? For that two things must happen.A huge increase in India's defence budget coupled with forward basing in the ASEAN nations like Vietnam, the Philippines, Spore, Indonesia, etc.and a pro-India economic relationship with India dumping China by ASEAN.Without huge eco growth we cannot sustain our mil. machine against China.But China has to be bottled up in the ICS and Pacific.The IOR is our backwater which no enemy must intrude into with malice towards us.

India must also at friendship costs supply the ASEAN group with Indian weapon systems which they would like from us.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby chola » 31 Jan 2018 20:38

Philip wrote:The moot point is whether India will come to the aid of ASEAN nations if China attacks any of them? For that two things must happen.A huge increase in India's defence budget coupled with forward basing in the ASEAN nations like Vietnam, the Philippines, Spore, Indonesia, etc.and a pro-India economic relationship with India dumping China by ASEAN.Without huge eco growth we cannot sustain our mil. machine against China.But China has to be bottled up in the ICS and Pacific.The IOR is our backwater which no enemy must intrude into with malice towards us.

India must also at friendship costs supply the ASEAN group with Indian weapon systems which they would like from us.



The biggest danger is not the PRC attacking a member of ASEAN. It is members of ASEAN accepting chini takeover of the gray zone as fait accompli because Cheen always does things that are short of actual warfare.

One of the biggest reason ASEAN acquiesces to China’s creeping takeover of the shared commons is the Chnese market. Most ASEAN countries enjoys a large surplus with Cheen. Vietnam has a deficit but it is for chini components which they assemble for the Viets’ own surplus with the West.

The biggest point is not our war fighting ability or mil exports, it is our ability to provide an alternative to the chini market. The same principle applies to Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc. in our own neighborhood. If other nations are dependent on you for their economic health, they will toe your line.

War is a rare event in the competiton among nations. Economics is constant and unrelenting. We might need to think seriously about giving smaller nations in our neighborhood and in regions of interest like ASEAN preferential trade treaties.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby KrishnaK » 02 Feb 2018 03:49

chola wrote: The biggest danger is not the PRC attacking a member of ASEAN. It is members of ASEAN accepting chini takeover of the gray zone as fait accompli because Cheen always does things that are short of actual warfare.

One of the biggest reason ASEAN acquiesces to China’s creeping takeover of the shared commons is the Chnese market. Most ASEAN countries enjoys a large surplus with Cheen. Vietnam has a deficit but it is for chini components which they assemble for the Viets’ own surplus with the West.

The biggest point is not our war fighting ability or mil exports, it is our ability to provide an alternative to the chini market. The same principle applies to Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc. in our own neighborhood. If other nations are dependent on you for their economic health, they will toe your line.

War is a rare event in the competiton among nations. Economics is constant and unrelenting. We might need to think seriously about giving smaller nations in our neighborhood and in regions of interest like ASEAN preferential trade treaties.
Without the ability to provide market access, it will be increasingly difficult for India to influence the IOR, let alone ASEAN.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Philip » 06 Mar 2018 13:22

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... nt=RSSfeed
March 2, 2018 6:24 am JST
Philippine-Indian team pitches $3bn expansion of Manila airport
Megawide and GMR propose to double hub's passenger capacity

JUN ENDO, Nikkei staff writer
Ninoy Aquino International Airport is the gateway to Manila. © Reuters

MANILA -- Philippine engineering group Megawide Construction and an Indian partner would spend $3 billion to more than double capacity at a Metro Manila international airport under a proposal presented to the government Thursday, intensifying the competition in the capital area's infrastructure.

The plan, submitted with Mumbai-based GMR Infrastructure, calls for upgrading terminals at Ninoy Aquino International Airport as well as extending runways and creating new taxiways.

This would enable a roughly 30% increase in air traffic to between 950 and 1,000 takeoffs and landings a day. Capacity would rise to 72 million passengers a year from 31 million. The duo would operate the airport for 18 years before transferring it to the government free of charge.

Philippine Stock Exchange-listed Megawide and GMR are countering a $6.75 billion plan to upgrade the airport into a regional hub by a consortium of seven conglomerates, including the real-estate-centered Ayala group. Separately, infrastructure builder San Miguel has proposed to construct a new airport in Bulacan Province, north of Manila.

Megawide and India-listed GMR are already working together to expand Mactan Cebu International Airport in the central Philippines. GMR has developed airports, including one in New Delhi, as well as power plants and highways.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Vips » 17 May 2018 23:15

Indonesia likely to give India access to deep seaport in Sabang.

Indonesia might give India access to a deep sea port in Sabang, including to its naval vessels. Addressing a Delhi audience here today, Luhut Pandjaitan, maritime affairs minister in the Jokowi government, said, “India and Indonesia have started naval drills in 2017, but we can explore doing more between our coast guards. This will become even better when the Sabang seaport is established with India. Sabang port has a depth of 40 metres which is good even for submarines.”

Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected to travel to Indonesia for a bilateral summit with Joko Widodo in the next couple of weeks. Among his engagements, Modi is expected to announce an Indian hospital in Sambang, which is just over 700km from Andaman & Nicobar islands. Luhut said the Jokowi government wanted India to invest in an economic zone in that same area, which is not particularly developed. There is speculation that Modi might undertake a sea journey to Sambang to highlight how close Indonesia is to India, but sources say defence and space would be areas of cooperation during Modi’s forthcoming visit.

“Indian coast guard ships now make regular visits to Indonesian ports and emphasize the closeness between the two countries. The Indonesian side has expressed interest in getting commercial investment in the port of Sabang, which is the westernmost point of Indonesia. This port has a deep draft but rudimentary facilities,” said Gurjit Singh, former ambassador to Indonesia.

Questioned about Indonesia’s response to OBOR and China’s decision to station missiles on the disputed Spratlys in the South China Sea, Luhut said it was a “sensitive matter”. He said they had raised the issue with the Chinese side, but “in a friendly manner.”

Luhut said, “I spoke with my Chinese counterpart about the 9-dash line. They don’t deny that Natuna island is ours. But then the 200-mile EEZ is also ours and that goes beyond the line. I ask why they are claiming the South China Sea. They say they have a historical claim, its part of the sentiment of the mainland, and it was the route taken by the Chinese explorer Zheng He. I said if this is true, then, when Krakatoa exploded, Indonesian ash settled around the world including Beijing, and we could claim this.” After years of denying they had a problem with China’s claiming the seas and territory around, Indonesia renamed its sea the Natuna Sea.

In fact, in a rare admission, the Indonesian minister, considered to be very close to Jokowi, described OBOR as a “Chinese proposal”. “We do not want to be controlled by OBOR. We would like it to link to our maritime policy, of a global maritime fulcrum.” Chinese premier Li Keqiang was in Jakarta earlier this week pushing OBOR projects with the Jokowi government.

“India-Indonesia relations are important for the balance of power in Asia,” Luhut said.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Vasu » 23 May 2018 11:45

This news on the latest Amnesty Report is blowing up globally this morning.

ARSA militants killed Hindu villagers in Rakhine violence: Amnesty

Campaign group Amnesty International said on Tuesday it had gathered evidence that insurgents from a Rohingya Muslim armed group killed scores of Hindu civilians in August last year, amid a surge in violence in western Burma.

A military response to insurgent attacks on 30 police posts and an army base in northern Rakhine State in the early hours of Aug. 25 pushed almost 700,000 Rohingya Muslims across the border to Bangladesh, many accusing security forces of killings, rape and arson.

It said masked ARSA fighters killed as many as 99 Hindus near a remote village named Kha Maung Seik shortly after launching the coordinated attacks on security posts.

Amnesty International cited witnesses including eight Hindu women who alleged they were abducted by ARSA fighters and forced to convert to Islam. Some of the women had earlier told media including Reuters that their loved ones were killed by Buddhists, but later recanted their stories, saying they had been coerced by their captors.

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby sunnyP » 11 Jan 2019 04:32

Malaysians lecturing Indians about pluralism. :rotfl:

India haunted by communal politics: Anwar Ibrahim

The former Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia calls for pluralism.

Anwar Ibrahim, the charismatic leader of Malaysia’s Parti Keadilan Rakyar (People’s Justice Party) on Thursday said here the communal politics that defined birth of India in 1947, continues to be fanned in the country. Mr. Ibrahim urged for a tolerant world based on pluralism and freedom of religion and said his country is determined to protect freedom of religion for indigenous communities and religious minorities.

“The awful history of communal violence that was the birth of Indian independence continues to be incited and tragically re-enacted thanks to the visions of the past that embrace the thesis of Partition,” said Mr. Ibrahim in his speech at the annual Raisina Dialogue.


https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... epage=true

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby mappunni » 11 Jan 2019 08:52

[quote="sunnyP"]Malaysians lecturing Indians about pluralism. :rotfl:

This man was thrown in prison by the current Malaysian mentor turned foe turned friend PM.

The blatant form of racism practiced by the Malays called "Bhuputera policy" (The very word is a plagiarization of the Sanskrit word BhumiPutra)

And the shameless fools had to rollback one of the election promises of signing the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD).

And this man has the audacity to lecture India. Having talked to many Malaysian Indian or Chinese students in the US, they come to the US with the parents funding the education. The entitled Malays come to get bachelors in Petroleum related degrees (Thanks to generous scholarships from Petronas for Malays) which many do not complete.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2175870/mahathirs-u-turn-un-race-treaty-malaysia-necessary-if-backwards

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby Lalmohan » 11 Jan 2019 15:29

^^^ Boomiputra

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Re: India and ASEAN / East Asia

Postby hnair » 11 Jan 2019 15:43

Seems it is an open secret that this gent lecturing us about communal harmony, used to maintain a harem of young men setup in various flats. A good friend of mine, now back in south Bengaluru has said he did not know this when he signed up and rented an apartment building that, after his shift, seemed to be teeming with gay-log :lol: Seems his real-estate agent lady told him over phone (he was working in khanland, but got a long term assignment in KLumpur) the flats are luxurious and rent is cheap.... anyways, long story short, seems the lecturing gent had made a cosy mega-unit made of four apartments combined, which had a bevy of young men. My friend, who was single after a divorce, was helped out by these poor gents (nothing more than 6ex slaves), who helped him advise about ayeshas to date etc.

Seems these chappies were worried about their future, which, as per my friend sounded almost like regular career worries :shock:

I blew coffee over the rug, when he was narrating some of the stories he heard of their main-man, the jailbird-gent, who is now pontificating about India. Not that I am a big fan of the current PM and his own pontificating about India in the past, but their current chap must have decided enough is enough at some point and put him in jail, only to see in horror as a 400% cheen-pasand dude roll in

(Years ago, I thought it was petty vendatta a la AIADMK vs DMK, but seems like the outrageous allegations are true)


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