India-Russia: News & Analysis

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3524
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 23 Jan 2017 00:09

arun wrote:
Per article, the Pro Pakistan Islamophile faction headed by Zamir Kabulov controls the Russian Deep State’s policy to the Indian Sub-Continent with the Indophile faction headed by Alexander Kadakhin in retreat

Because of their adaptability in the face of India’s game-changing geostrategic pivot towards the US and their forward-thinking policy planning, the Islamophiles are distinctly at the head of Russia’s “deep state” South Asian strategy at the moment, despite the loud complaints that this elicits from the Indophiles.

From here:

Clicky



The fact that Islamophiles have risen to control the Russian Deep State and effectively displaced the Indophiles has to do with more than China. PRC is definitely one factor influencing Moscow towards Pakistan and away from India. A desire to control Afghanistan is another.

However, Putin's decision to commit as heavily as he has to the West Asia conflict in Syria is yet another huge factor we cannot ignore.

Russia MUST have the Ummah (or at least a substantial portion of it) staunchly on its side to accomplish the goals it has set for itself in West Asia. Syria is its closest proxy, Shia Iran its most influential ally at present... but Sunni Turkey is being ardently courted as yet another ally. So is Egypt.

In contrast to this grouping, the Saudi/GCC are a weak assembly... they have shown that they can't even fight the Houthis effectively. They don't have the population, or the military capacity (despite shiny toys from Unkil), or even the economic strength (in the face of the faltering oil market) to confront the pro-Russian grouping that is shaping up in West Asia.

To buff up its pro-Islam credentials with Turkey, Iran, and various other powers in West Asia, becoming an additional "father" of Pakistan is a no-brainer for Moscow... especially if it can endeavour to displace the US as an existing "father". It is a low-cost option (Pakistanis will sell their mother for a naya paisa) and makes the Chinese happy as well.

If Trump's America becomes more vociferously anti-Islam, the vacuum this creates will only draw Russia deeper into its engagement with West Asia and the Indian Subcontinent in the role of Protector of Islam.

All these factors will strengthen the hands of the Islamophiles in Moscow, vis-a-vis the Indophiles, in the months and years to come.

India needs to look at the situation for what it is, not shiver in its dhoti about the current state of defence procurement. The longer we try to hang on to Moscow's coat-tails for military assistance, the more costly things will get for us.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby schinnas » 23 Jan 2017 00:27

I doubt Russia wants to become a father to Pakistan purely to earn "pro-islam" credentials with Turkey. Turks are no fools and they know how Russians hate islamic fundamentalism (thanks to Chechnya). Pakistan's utility to Russia is primarily w.r.to sea access for CIS states and to be a player in the Afghan end game (and possibly to payback US).

If Trump can ensure a thaw in US-Russia relations, Russian need to support Taliban against US will go down and thus the utility of Pakistan. Russia is currently working to get as many levers as possible for a grand bargain with US. Given Trumps' America first policy, I do expect to see US cede control of or influence over Eastern Europe and CIS to Russia in exchange of Russia moving away from China's arms and not negate US influence in West Asia (primary) and Af-pak (Secondary). It makes absolutely no strategic sense for US to continue cold war policies against Russia and vice versa. Civilization-ally, Russians identify themselves as Europeans and migrate to either Europe or US at the first opportunity. If Trump can effect a close US-Russia partnership, it can help extend US' global hegemony by another 30 years or so and act as a strong deterrent against China.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16518
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby NRao » 23 Jan 2017 00:37

Trumps' America first policy, I do expect to see US cede control of or influence over Eastern Europe and CIS to Russia


That is the core for F-16 MII.

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5241
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Jan 2017 00:38

Rudradev wrote:
arun wrote:India needs to look at the situation for what it is, not shiver in its dhoti about the current state of defence procurement. The longer we try to hang on to Moscow's coat-tails for military assistance, the more costly things will get for us.
Military assistance is a necessity not made out of choice. The choice here is between the suppliers, in some critical areas and for a few decades, if not more. What are you proposing? Military procurement impinges on geo-political and geo-economic decisions. The buyer has little if any control of the suppler nations alignment of strategic policy with the recipient of these wares. When one has to make this choice, it is best to do with the party least likely to be in conflict with your own interests. If now as you claim Russia has moved over to the dark side, what do you suggest?

PS: It will be good if you can document your case as time moves along wth more references as not many are likely to be convinced of this Russian change being claimed, reasons thereof and its real on the ground impact. Even if there are disagreements, it is good to get this counter view so that folks who are long accustomed to a warm bear hug can feel some cold pain in the offing, if real.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20513
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2017 18:46

There is no comparison between the scale of the arms deals and mil cooperation between India and Russia and that between Russia and Pak. As of now the supply of a few helos is miniscule.In no way do they have any effect on the mil balance between the two inimical nations either. What has woken up the mandarins in the MEA is the political aspect of a Russo-Paki thaw,which may affect our prosecution of Paki terrorist leaders sheltered by the rogue regime in Islamabad. AS China has winked at Paki terrorists enjoying Paki hospitality and ISI protection,India would not like to see the Russians following suit esp. with our support for the Afghan regime,where we have financed Russian mil eqpt for Kabul. What Russia clearly wants is that Paki sponsored terror does not find its way back into Russia and the pro-Russian states of Central Asia,which would open a third front for it-the UKR and Syria being the two regions where Russia has taken the plunge militarily.

Indo-Russian mil trade and nuclear plant cooperation is in the tens of billions.It is far too valuable for Russia to simply throw down the drain and those who predict an about turn in Indo-Russian relations are quite mistaken. It is astonishing to witness these doom-sayers for Indo-Russian relations who conveniently forget or ignore the fact that the US still supplies Pak with mil ept.,spars,support,etc.,plus much moolah to keep the TSP alive and kicking...in India's direction. The Trump presidency must be leveraged to the max by India and our supine MEA,with reminding "the Donald" that Islamist terror has Pak as its heartland and terror against India is terror against the ":free world" which the US claims to protect and uphold.

Bhurishravas
BRFite
Posts: 680
Joined: 02 Sep 2016 18:25

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bhurishravas » 23 Jan 2017 20:14

Russia is getting into the dirty game just as US is getting out of it. So Russia is wiling to entertain the Taliban if it helps in kicking out the US base from the region. It has no qualms about Taliban`s extremism or its suicide bombings. According to Kabulov, "Russia and taliban are on the page".

Without machpolitic and realpolitik west of Indian border, there is absolutely no logic in India investing money anywhere. Be it chabahar port or salma dam or any other crap. International players are fickle and could easily turn hostile or uncooperative. The dam and the port stay and remain testimony to stupidity and cowardice of Indian political class.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3524
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 24 Jan 2017 02:42

schinnas wrote:I doubt Russia wants to become a father to Pakistan purely to earn "pro-islam" credentials with Turkey.


Schinnas ji, who is saying Russia wants to become a father to Pakistan "purely" for this purpose? Please read my post more carefully to see what I've actually said.

Russia is pursuing a very broad-based strategy of winning over substantial sections of the Ummah in the service of its geopolitical ends. This includes cultivating alliances with Turkey, Iran, and Egypt as well as Syria. Pakistan is a low-hanging fruit for Russia in this regard, and becoming a "father" to this habitual rentier state only expands the breadth of their influence in the Ummah. The withdrawal of the US from Af-Pak and the wider West Asian theatre has created a vacuum, accelerating the pace at which Russia is moving in to make its presence felt.

Turks are no fools and they know how Russians hate islamic fundamentalism (thanks to Chechnya). Pakistan's utility to Russia is primarily w.r.to sea access for CIS states and to be a player in the Afghan end game (and possibly to payback US).


Do you really think that geopolitical decisions are taken on the basis of emotional responses such as "hate"?

Forget Chechnya. The first ever transnational jihad, which killed tens of thousands of Russian personnel, was waged in Afghanistan during the 1980s with Pakistan as its principal orchestrator. If Putin made his decisions based on "hate" he wouldn't have placed the Islamophiles of the Kremlin into the driver's seat of Russian foreign policy today. Yet, he has.

No big power uses emotion-based responses as a bellwether of its decision making. Otherwise, why would the US, having lost tens of thousands of soldiers to PRC attacks in Korea in 1952, and several more to PRC proxies in Southeast Asia throughout the 1960s, decide to reorient itself towards Beijing in 1972? Realpolitik trumps all this "hate/wait".

Also, despite the bloviations of Pakis like Ahmed Rashid, Russia does not gain any sort of meaningful "sea access" (for itself or for its CIS allies) via Pakistan. It does not even border Pakistan, and would have to rely on Afghanistan and/or China for "sea access" via Gwadar. It can much more easily secure sea access to the Persian Gulf via Chahbahar in Iran for that matter, and already has access to the Mediterranean via Tartus in Syria, and to the Black Sea in Crimea. What additional benefit does Gwadar provide, considering that access to the Indian Ocean via this port will be entirely dependent on the good will of PRC and the stability of Pakistan?

Do you think Gwadar provides enough benefit, by itself, to counteract the ill-will that Russia-Pak bonhomie engenders with New Delhi, a longstanding ally of Moscow and one of Russia's most important arms consumers?

Far from it. Russia's overtures to Pakistan are just one building block in a much bigger project of enlisting the Ummah to its geopolitical purposes. Something that Russia sees as so valuable to its future geostrategic positioning that it is worth alienating India for.

If Trump can ensure a thaw in US-Russia relations, Russian need to support Taliban against US will go down and thus the utility of Pakistan. Russia is currently working to get as many levers as possible for a grand bargain with US. Given Trumps' America first policy, I do expect to see US cede control of or influence over Eastern Europe and CIS to Russia in exchange of Russia moving away from China's arms and not negate US influence in West Asia (primary) and Af-pak (Secondary). It makes absolutely no strategic sense for US to continue cold war policies against Russia and vice versa. Civilization-ally, Russians identify themselves as Europeans and migrate to either Europe or US at the first opportunity. If Trump can effect a close US-Russia partnership, it can help extend US' global hegemony by another 30 years or so and act as a strong deterrent against China.


Putin will never go for this. Even if Trump sincerely wants to cultivate a G2 co-dominium of Russia and the US, there is too much institutionalized opposition against such an idea in the US deep state for such efforts to crystallize. Trump or no Trump, Putin will never trust the US enough to abandon his own perceived geopolitical interests by ceding West Asia or Af Pak to the American sphere of influence... especially not West Asia, after he has committed substantial Russian military force, diplomatic capital, blood, and treasure to the conflict there. He knows that Trump isn't going to be around forever, after all. Even two years from now, a mid-term election where Democrats return to dominate the US House and Senate could strongly limit the utility of Trump as a potential ally of Putin. It doesn't make any sense for Putin to invest in Trump's good will.

At the most, from Moscow's point of view, Trump's victory gives them a breathing space to regroup and pursue their interests which they wouldn't have had after a Clinton victory. Putin will take advantage of this to the extent he can, but he has no incentive whatsoever to change his perceived geopolitical objectives simply because a new regime has temporarily taken power in Washington.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Agnimitra » 24 Jan 2017 04:12

With increasing polarization, it seems like things like 'hate' might indeed become deciding factors in international alignment. In what some American thinkers dub the "Age of Hate", long-term political alignments will inevitably converge onto identity faultlines and identity politics, after however many twists and turns. Per that visceral survival instinct, an Israel and an India will become 'natural allies' simply because they know that at an *individual* level, people of a particular community surrounding them and pervading their own countries have a level of covert hostility or overt irridentism that is blood-curdling, and if their cultural identity is what is important to their sense of survival, then it is a make-or-break situation.

The Slav identity, on the other hand, came into being rather differently. Fighting against Nordic occupation...and then warring among themselves...then going out and actually inviting Nordics to come back and govern them as a ruling class...then later deciding to discard their ancestral religion and choose between Judaism, Christianity and Islam...and choosing to go with Christianity for obscure reasons...and then later also absorbing a lot of Turko-Mongol culture and genes, stamping it with a liminal Eurasian identity. Whenever they needed to, they drew themselves into an attractive sphere (e.g. W.Europe) and absorbed culture and genes from there.

Added:


This is what has gone into the making of their identity, and so it is not difficult to understand that they can play around with alignments and re-alignments to a greater degree than those who have deeper cultural/ethnic roots.

In the long run, by leveraging its own substantial "Muslim minority" (which has many tell-tale signs of radicalization) in engaging with its Muslim neighborhood, Russia is drawing itself into that sphere. If they can understand this - AND if they are viscerally averse to this (a big IF) - then it is possible that the US easing pressure on the Syria and Afghanistan fronts will allow Russia to also restrict its engagement with the Pakiban and TurkISIS.

Iran might become the bellwether for engagement and power projection into this pasture for, both, Russia and China, if it already isn't.

As for the US, it remains to be seen how the contours of its own identity and sense of cultural mission form. With Trump, there seems to be an assertion of a more 'set' core cultural identity. If that truly congeals overtly, then the end-game for the US will become more predictable by the logic of "Age of Hate". It is still difficult to estimate whether India or Israel can depend on the US, but some things might be clearer.

Significant game-changing events in "Age of Hate" logic would be forging ties across ethnic/cultural boundaries. India must keep a hand outstretched to the Arabian Peninsula.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 09:57

70mn cyberattacks, mostly foreign, targeted Russia’s critical infrastructure in 2016 – FSB

https://www.rt.com/news/374973-cyber-at ... stracture/

Seventy million cyberattacks [targeted] relevant facilities of the Russian Federation during this year,” the official told a State Duma committee for Information Policy, adding that the bulk of the attacks originated from abroad.

Touching on Russia’s readiness to ward off the mounting number of cyber threats, Murashov insisted that “at present, Russia has sufficient potential in the development of means of information security.”


However, while many major Russian companies, such as state-controlled energy giant Gazprom and those in charge of critical railway infrastructure, are considered well-protected, there are enterprises that remain particularly vulnerable to such attacks.

“There are companies, where, from our point of view, there is not enough attention being paid to this issue,” Murashev said.


The committee’s meeting was centered on debate over a new bill titled “On the Security of Critical Infrastructure of the Russian Federation,” that is designed to ensure that all companies deemed to be a part of Russia’s critical infrastructure are equipped with effective means to fight off the cyberattacks.

The draft bill envisions that a special register of all companies and agencies that control objects of critical infrastructure be drawn up. Once the entity is in the list, it will be obliged to purchase means for detection and countering cyberwarfare, as well as to report all attempts to disrupt their information security to the relevant state bodies and provide assistance in the investigations that follow. The companies will be divided into three groups, gauging the degree to which their infrastructure is critical.

The bill, which is still in the works, was reportedly backed by State Duma’s Committees for Security and Information Policy on Tuesday, paving the way for its final passage by lawmakers, Russia’s Izvestia daily reported, citing State Duma sources.

So far, it is unclear what state agency will be entrusted with the right to choose the companies for the list, although the FSB has been touted as the most likely pick.

Apart from measures to enhance the protection of critical infrastructure objects, the bill aims to deter potential cyberattacks with heavier punishments. Perpetrators who are writing and spreading malicious computer programs with a purpose of attacking Russia’s critical information infrastructure would face up to 10 years in jail.

This comes after a number of Russia’s security bodes spoke of a heightened threat to Russia’s cybersecurity, citing an increased rate of hacking attacks.

Earlier in January, the head of Russia’s Security Council, Nikolay Patrushev, told Rossiyskaya Gazeta daily that Russia has witnessed “a growing number of attempts to inflict damage to Russian information systems from abroad,” by means of hacking attacks and unlawful collection of personal data. Patrushev noted that while Washington under Barack Obama’s administration was constantly accusing Russia of hacking, “all major internet servers are located on US territory and are used by Washington for intelligence and other purposes aimed at retaining [US] dominance in the world.”

In December, the FSB issued an alert, warning of an imminent cyberattack that it said was about to target Russia’s financial system. The FSB traced the planned large-scale attack to servers and command centers in the Netherlands belonging to a Ukrainian hosting company. Russia’s Communications Ministry has worked out potential counter-measures in connection with the

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5129
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby devesh » 26 Jan 2017 09:10

The Russia equation will flip again as soon as Erdogan delivers a solid underhand to Putin. It's Molotov-Ribbenterop redux. A matter of when, not if. But I do agree on this: time is coming where we should be prepared to deal with Moscow on equal terms, not as a military-tech buyer with too much dependence.

We have to invest in volume production and scale-up of indigenous tech. No other way.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6850
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby habal » 26 Jan 2017 12:25

Err .. Erdogan does not have muslim mai-baap hussain obama in white house to cover his back again. So resulting jhapad may be worth the wait. I am a believer of history neber repeats twice in same way. Each time is bit different.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 26 Jan 2017 13:02

Russian ambassador to India dies in New Delhi

http://tass.com/politics/927398

NEW DELHI, January 26. /TASS/. Russian Ambassador to India, Alexander Kadakin, passed away in New Delhi on Thursday, a source in the Russian Embassy in India told TASS.

He served as the head of Russia’s diplomatic mission in India since November 2009.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20513
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 26 Jan 2017 18:16

A great loss to both countries.Kadakin was a most experienced diplomat with years of experience dealing with India.May he RIP.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... s-treason/
Russia arrests top cyber security expert amid allegations of treason
The headquarters of the Federal Security Service, the main successor agency to the KGB, in Moscow

25 JANUARY 2017 • 4:56PM
The manager responsible for investigating hacking attacks at Russia's biggest private cyber security firm has been arrested amid allegations of bribery and treason involving senior intelligence officers.

Kaspersky Lab, a world-leading cyber security firm based in Moscow, confirmed the arrest of Ruslan Stoyanov, the head of its computer incidents investigations team, on Wednesday.

“The case against this employee does not involve Kaspersky lab. This employee… is under investigation for a period predating his employment at Kasperky Lab,” the company said in a statement.

The company said it had no details of the investigation and the activities of its investigations team were unaffected.

The statement came after Russian media reported that Mr Stoyanov has been held in Moscow’s Lefortovo prison, the detention facility used by Russia’s Federal Security Service, since December.

Mr Stoyanov worked in Department K, the Russian Interior Ministry’s cyber crime unit, between 2000 and 2006. He joined Kaspersky Lab in July 2012.

Experts in the Russian information security world described him as a respected professional who maintained extensive contacts with his former colleagues in the FSB and the Interior Ministry. The department he ran at Kaspersky Lab has consulted for both agencies on investigating cyber crime cases.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20513
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 26 Jan 2017 18:19

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18337/ ... Inut9J96M8

ZRK 2K12 KUB (export KVADRAT option)India to Buy Hundreds of Missiles for Russian Self Propelled Air Defence System © Photo: kollektsiya.ru
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
10:00 26.01.2017
The Indian Army has been searching for a replacement of Kvadrat self propelled air defence system for a long time. But it has been unable to find a suitable option for the air defense of 500 vulnerable areas and vulnerable points across the country.

New Delhi (Sputnik) — In what could be a signal of faith in the Russian 2K12 Kub/Kvadrat self propelled air defence system over home-made surface to air missile Akash, India has asked global vendors to supply approximately 200 missiles for the system.

Akash was to replace the 3M9ME/3M9M3E missiles in the Kvadrat System for providing air defense cover to the mechanized forces during battle manoeuvres. Kvadrat is designated for air defense of the manpower and objects against enemy aircraft flying at low and middle heights both at subsonic and supersonic speeds.

India's Pinaka 214 mm Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher System is displayed during army day parade, in New Delhi, India, Sunday, Jan. 13, 2013
© AP PHOTO/ TSERING TOPGYAL
India Test-Fires Replacement for Russian SMERCH
The army in a document says that missile should be capable of engaging target in range of 24/25 kms with a single shot kill probability of at least 80 percent. The army wants the missile to have minimum 96 percent with delivery from 2018.
It is evident from the current purchase order that the army would have to continue with Kvadrat. The army finds Akash air defense system a bit slower and ineffective while on the move. It is considered that the reaction time of Akash is longer and has radar coverage of less than 360 degrees.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20513
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 26 Jan 2017 18:28

https://in.rbth.com/politics/2017/01/26 ... lhi_689016

Ambassador Alexander Kadakin passes away in New Delhi
26 January 2017 AJAY KAMALAKARAN
The Russian Ambassador died on the morning of Jan. 26 in New Delhi after suffering from a brief illness. He served in various diplomatic capacities in India for over 28 years. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while condoling his death, called Kadakin “a great friend of India.”

Ambassador Alexander Kadakin passes away in New Delhi
Kadakin: Russia with India. Terrorism is greatest human rights violation
Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin pays tribute to legendary...
TAGS
EMBASSY OF RUSSIA, AMBASSADOR, ALEXANDER KADAKIN
Ambassador Kadakin
Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin passed away on the morning of Jan. 26, the Russian Embassy in New Delhi said in a statement.

“With deep regret and profound sorrow the Embassy of the Russian Federation in the Republic of India informs that Alexander Kadakin, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation to the Republic of India, passed away on January 26 in one of New Delhi central hospitals after a brief illness,” the embassy said.

A long-term India hand, who served in India for over 28 years, Kadakin was fluent in Hindi and Urdu and admired across the political spectrum in India and among the Indian general public.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Twitter that he was “deeply saddened at the passing away of Ambassador Alexander Kadakin.” Modi added that Kadakin was “an admirable diplomat, a great friend of India and a fluent Hindi speaker who tirelessly contributed to stronger India-Russia ties.”

Indian Ministry of External Affairs Spokesman Vikas Swarup tweeted that India “lost a valued friend who nurtured the India-Russia relationship for many decades as a distinguished Russian diplomat.”

No one can drive a wedge in India-Russia friendship - Russian Ambassador
While paying tribute to Ambassador Kadakin, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova said his death was a “huge loss.” She said Kadakin was “unique, outstanding and fabulous.”

P.S. Raghavan, who served as India’s Ambassador to Russia from 2013 to 2016 said he was devastated by the news. In a comment on RIR’s Facebook page, he called Kadakin “a many-splendoured personality, deeply knowledgeable about India, an untiring soldier in the cause of India-Russia friendship.”

The ambassador, who was born in Kishinev, USSR on July 22, 1949, joined the Soviet Union’s diplomatic service in 1972 after graduating with honours from the Moscow State Institute (University) of International Relations under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He was briefly in the Soviet Embassy in New Delhi in 1971 as a probationer and then returned a year later as an attaché.

After a few diplomatic assignments in New Delhi in the 1970s, 80s and 90s, Kadakin was appointed as the Russian Ambassador to India in 1999. He served as Ambassador till 2004 and then returned to the country in the same role in 2009.

Kadakin also served as Russia’s Ambassador to Nepal from 1993 to 1997, Ambassador–at–Large and Secretary of the Council of the Heads of Entities of Russia in 2004-5, and Ambassador to Sweden from 2005 to 2009. He was also fluent in French and Romanian and had an advanced understanding of Swedish.

India-hand
“Starting from 1971 the entire diplomatic career of Alexander Kadakin was closely associated with promoting Russian-Indian relations,” the Russian Embassy in New Delhi said in the Jan. 26 statement.

Even before he was appointed Ambassador, Kadakin was seen by the Soviet (and Russian) heads of state as one of the foremost India experts. He accompanied Leonid Brezhnev, Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin on their visits to India.

Ambassador Kadakin expressed his love for India on numerous occasions, calling the country his “karma-bhoomi,” which is Hindi for the land where a person works. A follower of Nicholas Roerich, he founded the International Roerich Memorial Trust.

Ambassador Kadakin wrote this poem for India when the countries celebrated the 65th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations in 2012.

“Once I heard you weeping…

Timidly. The scent of salty sands

Was strumming the sitar.

Your laments made me love and treasure you,

O India.

And when you were leaving,

A soft sirocco burned my lips.

It was your kiss, O India!

Bidding farewell,

You put on laced mantle of waves.

The blessed ocean adorned your hair

With sparks of celestial mystery.

A coloured shred of memory

Remained in my mind.

I have found you, my many Indias!


RIP great friend of India.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3524
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 26 Jan 2017 20:30

Kadakin was our last hope of preserving our four-decade-old strategic partnership with Moscow. His tragic passing signals a permanent end to the era of Indo-Roosi Bhaichara.

The new breed of Russian strategic thinkers: Aleksandr Dugin, Andrew Korybko etc. have determined that the achievement of Russia's geopolitical aims can be maximized by using Islam as a strategic tool. This is actually a no-brainer: every single colonial power seeking dominance over Eurasia has, since the demise of the Ottoman Caliphate, enlisted factions of the Ummah in its service. From the UK, France, Italy, and Germany to the USA, Spain, and even Israel. Looking at it from Dugin/Korybko's point of view, why should they not bring their own powerful hand to bear upon the T E Lawrence Game?

The USSR never did this itself, because it prioritized influence-peddling through the export of its own bolshevik ideology rather than the co-option of other local ideologies. Modern Russia feels no compunctions in the pursuit of its interests. Muslim tribalism is a highly predictable tool, after all... premised on blind faith, atavistic hatred, petty jealousy and extreme short-sightedness. Easily manipulated to fight protracted and bloody wars on your behalf through well-understood levers of identity propaganda, low-cost military inducements, economic ambitions premised on unsustainable resource (e.g. oil) extraction, and social control through the clerical institutionalization of resentment. It is a boon to any power with colonial aspirations. Why do we think the post-WW2 international community went out of its way to spawn Pakistan in the first place? :mrgreen:

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Agnimitra » 26 Jan 2017 22:11

Rudradev wrote:The new breed of Russian strategic thinkers: Aleksandr Dugin, Andrew Korybko etc. have determined that the achievement of Russia's geopolitical aims can be maximized by using Islam as a strategic tool. This is actually a no-brainer: every single colonial power seeking dominance over Eurasia has, since the demise of the Ottoman Caliphate, enlisted factions of the Ummah in its service. From the UK, France, Italy, and Germany to the USA, Spain, and even Israel. Looking at it from Dugin/Korybko's point of view, why should they not bring their own powerful hand to bear upon the T E Lawrence Game?

The USSR never did this itself, because it prioritized influence-peddling through the export of its own bolshevik ideology rather than the co-option of other local ideologies.

I think the USSR - if the totality of the bolshevik power-struggle and rise to power is studied - did co-opt Islamist movements when convenient - but then later often made war on those same groups when they became too independent or diverged.

For instance, at the very beginning itself, the bolsheviks allied with the Waisi Movement in Russian Tatarstan, which was a movement for "Islamic Socialism" that included an adherence to Shariah - yes, Tarek Fatah's term "Shariah Bolshevik" isn't just a sarcastic phrase, but has an actual history. The Waisis evaded conscription into the Tsarist Army, but later formed their own regiment in the opposing Red Army. Later, after the successful revolution, they decided to diverge and become independent, and tried to set up their own autonomous state - and were sent to Jannat by the Soviet Russians during the Great Purge.

Even before the Soviets, Tsarist Russia used Islam when convenient - in fact, they were the ones who facilitated the conversions of the Kazakhs to Islam! They invited Turkic imams to come in and convert the Kazakhs. They felt that Islam would tame the free, warlike spirit of these steppe nomads. (And perhaps they also believed in a Shem-Japheth-Ham race theory with Islam having a place in that worldview and world order.) After inviting Turkic imams to convert large swathes of their own newly acquired territories, after the bolshevik revolution, that same Turkic influence lead to the mischief caused by the Young Turks like Enver Pasha, inviting brutal bolshevik massacre and the ensuing Basmachi Movement.

During the height of Soviet power, the rise of Ali Shari'ati in Iran and his more sophisticated brand of Islamic Socialism was also influenced by bolsheviks via their Iranian proxies. A lot of the popular intellectual movement against the pro-West Shah was by the Iranian communists and their soft Islamic Socialist front. However, at the mass level, that intellectual-lead agitation was ultimately hijacked by hardcore Khomeini style Islamists backed by the bazargan (banias) of Iran, who then brutally purged communists and soft Islamic socialists. So this is a case where Soviet-backed communists used soft Islamism but were then devoured by Islam - the opposite of what happened with the Waisi movement in Russia's own underbelly. However, inheritors of that same Waisi and Tatar-Islamist thoughtstream are alive and well - the symptoms were dealt with but the disease persists.

In India, Indian Communism nurtured the likes of Makhdoom - the Commie HQ in Hyderabad is still called Makhdoom Bhavan - who was basically an Islamic socialist - his and his own family had links with the Razakars before independence and annexation. Makhdoom was also felicitated on trips to the USSR.

From Tsarist times, through the revolutionary bolshevik phase and then the height of Soviet power, and now with post-Soviet Putinism, Russia has had no qualms about co-opting malleable forms of Islamism, while being perfectly ready to turn on them and finish them off later if possible. Right now, Russian Orthodox groups have been inviting certain Islamic eschatologists to talk about how the Islamic End of Times predicts an alliance with Russian Orthodoxy against the Dajjal - and interestingly, that the Ottoman Empire and its inheritors are part of that Dajjal. Turkey is definitely in Russia's crosshairs, either to be disciplined or subverted.

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 799
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Y. Kanan » 26 Jan 2017 23:46

Agnimitra wrote:I think the USSR - if the totality of the bolshevik power-struggle and rise to power is studied - did co-opt Islamist movements when convenient - but then later often made war on those same groups when they became too independent or diverged.

For instance, at the very beginning itself, the bolsheviks allied with the Waisi Movement in Russian Tatarstan, which was a movement for "Islamic Socialism" that included an adherence to Shariah - yes, Tarek Fatah's term "Shariah Bolshevik" isn't just a sarcastic phrase, but has an actual history. The Waisis evaded conscription into the Tsarist Army, but later formed their own regiment in the opposing Red Army. Later, after the successful revolution, they decided to diverge and become independent, and tried to set up their own autonomous state - and were sent to Jannat by the Soviet Russians during the Great Purge.

Even before the Soviets, Tsarist Russia used Islam when convenient - in fact, they were the ones who facilitated the conversions of the Kazakhs to Islam! They invited Turkic imams to come in and convert the Kazakhs. They felt that Islam would tame the free, warlike spirit of these steppe nomads. (And perhaps they also believed in a Shem-Japheth-Ham race theory with Islam having a place in that worldview and world order.) After inviting Turkic imams to convert large swathes of their own newly acquired territories, after the bolshevik revolution, that same Turkic influence lead to the mischief caused by the Young Turks like Enver Pasha, inviting brutal bolshevik massacre and the ensuing Basmachi Movement.

During the height of Soviet power, the rise of Ali Shari'ati in Iran and his more sophisticated brand of Islamic Socialism was also influenced by bolsheviks via their Iranian proxies. A lot of the popular intellectual movement against the pro-West Shah was by the Iranian communists and their soft Islamic Socialist front. However, at the mass level, that intellectual-lead agitation was ultimately hijacked by hardcore Khomeini style Islamists backed by the bazargan (banias) of Iran, who then brutally purged communists and soft Islamic socialists. So this is a case where Soviet-backed communists used soft Islamism but were then devoured by Islam - the opposite of what happened with the Waisi movement in Russia's own underbelly. However, inheritors of that same Waisi and Tatar-Islamist thoughtstream are alive and well - the symptoms were dealt with but the disease persists.

In India, Indian Communism nurtured the likes of Makhdoom - the Commie HQ in Hyderabad is still called Makhdoom Bhavan - who was basically an Islamic socialist - his and his own family had links with the Razakars before independence and annexation. Makhdoom was also felicitated on trips to the USSR.

From Tsarist times, through the revolutionary bolshevik phase and then the height of Soviet power, and now with post-Soviet Putinism, Russia has had no qualms about co-opting malleable forms of Islamism, while being perfectly ready to turn on them and finish them off later if possible. Right now, Russian Orthodox groups have been inviting certain Islamic eschatologists to talk about how the Islamic End of Times predicts an alliance with Russian Orthodoxy against the Dajjal - and interestingly, that the Ottoman Empire and its inheritors are part of that Dajjal. Turkey is definitely in Russia's crosshairs, either to be disciplined or subverted.


Fascinating post. This is why I love BRF.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Viv S » 27 Jan 2017 11:09

India hand Sasha bids adieu to his karma bhoomi

Alexander Kadakin, or Sasha, as he was known to most, served in India through most of the important events in both his own country and his adopted one.

Suhasini Haidar

Russian Ambassador Alexander Kadakin died on Thursday in Delhi, in the land he had in 2013 called his Karma Bhoomi, (land of work), Gnyana Bhoomi (land of learning) and Prem-Maitri Bhoomi (land of love and friendship).

As he said that to an audience in Delhi, Mr. Kadakin added with a guffaw, “It is also my Tapa Bhumi (land of meditation), especially in the hot season here.” The play on the word taap (temperature) and tap (meditation) wasn’t just about clever wordplay: for the Ambassador, who by then was already the longest serving diplomat in India, it was a show of how well he understood both the country, and Hindi.

Witness to history

Alexander Kadakin, or Sasha, as he was known to most, served in India through most of the important events in both his own country and his adopted one. He first came to India just ahead of the signing of the Indo-Soviet Friendship and Cooperation Treaty, that was seen as the bulwark for India going into the Bangladesh liberation war.

Speaking about his arrival, Mr. Kadakin said, “It was a memorable event and I remember the exact date when I first landed in India. The rainy August 9, 1971, when Andrey Gromyko and Swaran Singh signed the historic Soviet-Indian Treaty. Was it an omen? I thought it was a blessing. And never I regretted in the next 42 years that my destiny would closely intertwine with this country. If I had another chance, would I choose the same fate? The answer is positive. It was kismet (fate).”

He was also in India as Deputy Chief of Mission when the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, and became the Ambassador of the Russian Federation to India in 1999, an assignment he held for 12 years over two postings.

Enviously at home

Unlike his successor as Ambassador in 2004, Vyacheslav Trubnikov, who had been a KGB intelligence officer, Mr Kadakin was a career diplomat. But his network in India extended well beyond the polite diplomatic and MEA circles, through the entire political spectrum. Diplomats from other countries were frequently envious of the easy entry Sasha Kadakin had to all political parties and government offices.

Over the years, Mr. Kadakin was witness to India’s move to pull free of its Moscow focus on defence ties, and move closer to Washington. In interviews, Mr. Kadakin would speak dismissively of the shift, often reminding journalists, who spoke of the Indo-U.S. civilian nuclear deal, that till date the only working nuclear power reactors in India were those the Russians had built.

In time, Moscow also shifted its stance, and its new closeness to Beijing has come coupled with an openness to ties with Pakistan and a decision to deal with the Taliban in order to face the perceived greater threat from ISIS.

Mr Kadakin’s loss, say close watchers of the India-Russia relationship will make it harder to retain the old vision of bilateral ties that saw the two countries as each other’s first priority.

“Ambassador Kadakin was the rock defending the relationship with India at the Kremlin. He was senior, he was the Ambassador as well as a former room mate of (Foreign Minister) Sergei Lavrov, and always held sway over the India policy,” explains Nandan Unnikrishnan of think-tank ORF.

Fiercely defensive of Russia, but also of India, Mr. Kadakin was a rare diplomat who would see issues from both prisms. In the past few years, this became a tougher proposition, and even though he came out strongly to support Indian action after the Uri attacks in September 2016, he was hard-pressed to explain Russian military exercises with Pakistan in the weeks after. When he was asked why Russia was now selling helicopters to Pakistan, Mr. Kadakin famously quipped, “If India is so upset, why doesn’t India buy them?”

As Ambassador in Delhi, Mr. Kadakin also made his mark with his warm and boisterous personality, and his grand style for entertaining. Several times a year, but most notably for Christmas, he would open up the imposing Soviet-era Russian Embassy building for a fancy-dress ball. It wasn’t surprising to find the Ambassador dressed as an Indian soldier or wearing a cape with a mask like Zorro, as he welcomed guests to the ball, always encouraging them to see life as a “glass half-full; half-full of Russian vodka,that is.”

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3564
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Paul » 27 Jan 2017 11:38

^^Key reason why Kazakhs defeated the Dzungars in 18th century to form the bedrock of the Kazakh nation.

"Sabres of paradise" on Iman Shmyl refers to Muslims in Tsar's armies commanding regiments of Russian troops which was never the case in western armies. One of Shamyl's sons who was a captive returned home fully Russified and an a Russian army officer.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Agnimitra » 27 Jan 2017 12:15

Paul wrote:^^Key reason why Kazakhs defeated the Dzungars in 18th century to form the bedrock of the Kazakh nation.

Now that you mention it, the Dzungar massacre was an example of how imperial China allied with Muslim Uighurs to commit genocide on a Buddhist steppe Khanate. From the West (Russia) and the East (China), the imperial manipulators of steppe peoples have used Islam as a potent tool.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11638
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby A_Gupta » 29 Jan 2017 17:21

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... b72f7bbb4c
"A man is on trial in Russia — for talking about yoga"

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2017 16:43

India's Prime Minister Modi is going to participate in SPIEF 2017

https://ria.ru/economy/20170130/1486762790.html

MOSCOW, January 30 - RIA Novosti. India will be one of the guest country of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum in 2017, which will be held June 1-3; the arrival of Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the event agreed, said presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov.

"Saint-Petersburg International Economic Forum will be held 1-3 June 2017 This is the second time it will be held at the site of the exhibition center." Expoforum "- Peskov said, recalling that he had previously held at the site of" Lenexpo ".

"This year, one of the guests of the Forum will be India has been agreed upon arrival at the St. Petersburg forum, Prime Minister Mr. Modi We attach great importance to this, it will be carried out extensive preparations for this visit as a bilateral component and the forum in general, as the multilateral.." - he added.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 30 Jan 2017 23:24


Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jan 2017 06:53

habal wrote:Err .. Erdogan does not have muslim mai-baap hussain obama in white house to cover his back again. So resulting jhapad may be worth the wait. I am a believer of history neber repeats twice in same way. Each time is bit different.


"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." Karl Marx
"History repeats itself, first as farce, second as tragedy." Donald Trump

Each time a bit different.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 31 Jan 2017 08:14

https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/8 ... 4812725249

Farewell ceremony for Alexander Kadakin took place today in Moscow

Image

Image

Image

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 31 Jan 2017 08:21

Alexander Kadakin. In memoriam


zoverian
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 16 Aug 2016 10:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby zoverian » 31 Jan 2017 11:56

Tectonic Shock in India-Russia Relationship

http://www.globalresearch.ca/tectonic-s ... ip/5571181


The surprise passing of one of Russia’s most distinguished and influential diplomats, His Excellency Mr. Alexander Kadakin, has come as a tragic shock for Moscow and New Delhi. No single individual has been more important in promoting and strengthening the Russian-Indian Strategic Partnership than Ambassador Kadakin, and his irreplaceable contribution to the emerging Multipolar World Order will be dearly missed.

He served during a time of paradigmatic geopolitical changes, whereby Russia reemerged from its post-Soviet slumber as one of the leading multipolar Great Powers in the world concurrent with traditionally “Non-Aligned” India (which is nevertheless a misleading Cold War-era myth) rapidly moving in the direction of clinching an unprecedented military-strategic partnership with the US.

Despite the obvious divergences in Moscow and New Delhi’s geopolitical priorities, the two sides have hitherto managed to retain their historical bonds of friendship and their relationship has seemingly managed to avoid being negatively impacted by these developments, and that’s all thanks to the diplomatic expertise and professionalism of Ambassador Kadakin. Nevertheless, cracks had already begun to surface before his passing, and these are evidenced most clearly through the increasingly aggressive tone of the Indian media when discussing Russia’s rapprochement with Pakistan.

The author explored the uncomfortable nuances of Russian-Indian relations in a series of articles listed as part of his 2017 forecast for South Asia for the Moscow-based Katehon think tank, and the reader is strongly encouraged to review these materials in-depth to learn more about how the joint US-Indian Hybrid War on CPEC is dangerously threatening India’s traditional ties with Russia and fulfilling a grand American plan to turn New Delhi into Washington’s premier mainland proxy in Eurasia.

Russia couldn’t avoid noticing this startling game-changing development, yet it opted to redouble its efforts to strengthen its strategic partnership with India in order to make a play for its geopolitical loyalty. This is in line with what the author suggested last May in his Katehon series about “The Meaning Of Multipolarity”, the two most relevant articles of which advised that Russia not give up on its historically and instead make a determined bid to either keep it in the multipolar community or at the very least delay its ‘defection’ to the unipolar one.

Ambassador Kadakin was instrumental in this policy, but other influential diplomats in Moscow felt that he might have been going a bit too far in his approach by overly indulging India’s diplomatic interests in the region at the expense of Russia’s rapprochement with Pakistan. Mr. Zamir Kabulov, Russia’s envoy to Afghanistan and a rising force in guiding Moscow’s South Asian strategy, recently emerged as a counterweight to Ambassador Kadakin, and the author wrote about their visibly contradictory geopolitical visions in his Katehon article asking “Is Russia’s ‘Deep State’ Divided Over India?”

The research revealed that Kabulov is an “Islamophile” who believes that Russia’s South Asian strategy shouldn’t be Indo-centric, while Kadakin is an “Indophile” who thinks that Moscow’s regional policies should depend on its ties with New Delhi first and foremost. Up until Ambassador Kadakin’s passing, these two forces maintained equilibrium in determining the Kremlin’s policy towards Pakistan and India, which explains why Russia has so far been able to expertly balance its Pakistani rapprochement with its traditional Indian relationship.

Following the death of this remarkable Ambassador, however, it’s going to be very difficult for Russia to replace him with anyone as distinguished, capable, and trusted by the Indian establishment as Kadakin was. It’s not to say that Russia doesn’t have excellent diplomats, but just that Ambassador Kadakin was truly one of a kind and irreplaceable in his own way. Giants such as him always leave a void in their passing, and just as it was with the late Ambassador to Turkey Andrei Karlov, so too will it be with the late Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin.

It can be expected that the diplomatic transition from Kadakin to his successor will be smooth and fully supported by his Indian hosts, but that the influence which the “Indophiles” wield in Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs will never be the same again. The balance between them and Kabulov’s “Islamophiles” has suddenly shifted in favor of the latter, and this may lead to changes in Russia’s South Asian strategy.

In practical terms, while Moscow will likely continue to pursue its incipient balancing act between New Delhi and Islamabad, Modi’s government might try to take advantage of the new Russian Ambassador by aggressively pressuring him to halt his country’s rapprochement with Pakistan. It’s not predicted that Russia will alter its current strategy and appease India, though, because it both appreciates the trans-regional benefits of its Pakistani rapprochement policy in South-Central Asia (Afghanistan and CPEC) and is now decisively much more under the sway of the “Islamophiles” than the “Indophiles”.

This failure to comply with India’s unilateral demands could incense Modi and his influential National Security Advisor Ajit Doval, who might be convinced that this is the last opportunity to stop Russia’s rapprochement with Pakistan. Given the predominant weight that the US is presently exerting on Indian foreign policy at the moment, it’s forecast that Washington will exploit the enraged Indian leaders in order to encourage them to more visibly ‘break’ from Moscow in response.

This wouldn’t happen openly on a state-to-state level, of course, but in symbolic ways such as through the media and “expert” communities meant to convey the undeniable message of New Delhi’s supreme displeasure with Moscow and its willingness to more closely embrace Washington if it can’t get what it wants from Russia. This wouldn’t be anything new, however, but rather a reinforcement of the current ‘triangular’ diplomacy of “multi-alignment” that India’s recently involved itself in.

The key difference, however, is that India would be less inclined to work with a Pakistan-friendly Putin than an anti-Pakistan Trump, and it might accordingly accelerate its unprecedented military-strategic partnership with the US in order to capitalize off of this opportune moment. India and the US have been waiting for a convenient pretext to do this anyhow, and the passing of Ambassador Kadakin and his successor’s refusal of New Delhi’s expected ‘ultimatum’ that Moscow cut off its newfound pragmatic relations with Islamabad might be just what Modi-Doval need in order to more fully ‘legitimize’ their pro-American pivot.

Russia, for its part, while sincerely wanting to retain its treasured relations with India, might eventually end up losing its enthusiasm if the obvious reversal in India’s foreign policy priorities humiliatingly becomes apparent, and it could be influenced by the “Islamophiles” to transfer this passion to Pakistan instead. The result of this process would be that India and Russia continue to drift apart, just as the US intends for them to do, with Moscow unable to reverse this development after suddenly losing Ambassador Kadakin.

It’s very possible that President Putin might contemplate visiting South Asia much more seriously now than before, understanding that his presence there is needed much more than ever in order to safeguard and promote Russian interests. This prospective trip wouldn’t be just to reinforce Russia’s newfound balancing policy in the region, but to reinforce the Russian-Indian Strategic Partnership during this unexpected period of uncertainty.

With Kabulov’s “Islamophiles” more comfortably in control of Russia’s South Asian strategy and the former “deep state” equilibrium with the “Indophiles” suddenly broken, the paranoid Hindutva jingoists at the head of India’s government might fret that any accelerated rapprochement between Moscow and Islamabad will be at New Delhi’s expense. This is illogical for any level-headed person to believe, however, and Kabulov himself aptly said in December at the Heart of Asia conference that “India has close cooperation with the US, does Moscow complain? Then why complain about much lower level of cooperation with Pakistan?”

Regardless of Russia’s reasonable retort to New Delhi’s unfounded fears, Modi-Doval don’t interpret the situation like Kabulov expressed it, and instead believe that Russia is conspiring against them as part of a secret Chinese plot, like some Indian “experts” have repeatedly hinted at over the past couple of months. This fuels their desire to more rapidly and openly move towards the US, though not without giving Russia one final ‘ultimatum’ beforehand, which could be conveyed either discretely to Ambassador Kadakin’s successor or directly to President Putin during any forthcoming prospective visit to South Asia.

No matter what ultimately happens, though, it’s clear that Ambassador Kadakin’s passing decisively shifted the “deep state” balance between Russia’s “Islamophiles” and “Indophiles”, and that this will inevitably have consequences on the present state of affairs in the region. India senses its last-ever potential opportunity to reverse Russia’s rapprochement with Pakistan, while Russia contrarily sees a chance to take the latter in an excitingly new direction unburdened by the overly cautious approach which characterized Ambassador Kadakin’s “Indophile” influence.

Given these diverging dynamics, one can easily expect that the US’ efforts to drive a deeper wedge between Russia and India will assuredly lead to some sort of fruitful dividends in the coming future, with the only question being the extent to which American efforts will succeed in more openly convincing India to side with the US and against Russia in the New Cold War. More than likely, New Delhi won’t ever publicly turn against Moscow unless it becomes overly paranoid about Russia’s relations with Pakistan, so it can be assumed that this process will play out gradually and be largely kept out of the public eye (except for the symbolic manifestations mentioned earlier pertaining to India’s media and “expert” communities).

It’ll be a profound challenge for Russia to reverse or at least slow down India’s ‘defection’ to the US now that it can no longer rely on the remarkable diplomatic skills of Ambassador Kadakin, so Moscow might finally become comfortable with what’s increasingly appearing to be an irreversible geopolitical fact and concentrate more closely instead on preserving the mutually beneficial military-energy aspects of its fading strategic partnership with India while simultaneously exploring ‘compensational’ opportunities with Pakistan.

Andrew Korybko is Moscow-based political analyst, journalist and a member of the expert council for the Institute of Strategic Studies and Predictions at the People’s Friendship University of Russia. He specializes in Russian affairs and geopolitics, specifically the US strategy in Eurasia. His other areas of focus include tactics of regime change, color revolutions and unconventional warfare used across the world.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby schinnas » 31 Jan 2017 14:00

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/as-us-russia-look-to-reset-ties-nsa-doval-in-moscow-for-talks/story-T063qJXwp97jqHbF7fi15L.html

National security advisor Ajit Doval will hold talks with Russian officials in Moscow on Monday on counter-terrorism and security issues against a background of a thaw in ties between Russia and the United States that could redefine the relationship between the two countries.

Doval will meet Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev, a confidant of President Vladmir Putin. The visit is seen as part of Indian efforts to gauge the possible realignments on key security and foreign policy issues as national capitals try to figure out the priorities of the Trump administration.

In New York last month, Doval had met his American counterpart Michael Flynn before he formally took charge under the Trump administration. Flynn, like Doval, is an intelligence expert.

During his meetings with the Russians, Doval is expected to focus on anti-terrorism issues such as the fight against Islamic State and situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan.


“Russia has remained our trusted partner and high-level interactions help two sides exchange notes on all major developments including the evolving regional security architecture,” an Indian official said.

For Indian officials, a realignment of Russia-US ties is welcome as it would wean Moscow away from the deeper strategic embrace of China. Those who believe in a possible realignment are going by the right optics set in motion by both Moscow and Washington.

“The positive call was a significant start to improving the relationship between the United States and Russia that is in need of repair,” a White House statement said after the phone conversation between Trump and Putin. Though it would sound unreasonable to expect Trump would trample over ties with China that hinges on huge economic interest, India hopes better Russia-US ties would bring more balance to issues that Beijing aggressively pushes in the region.

SaraLax
BRFite
Posts: 505
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 21:15
Location: redemption land

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby SaraLax » 31 Jan 2017 14:13

zoverian wrote:Tectonic Shock in India-Russia Relationship

http://www.globalresearch.ca/tectonic-s ... ip/5571181


.
.
.
.

so Moscow might finally become comfortable with what’s increasingly appearing to be an irreversible geopolitical fact and concentrate more closely instead on preserving the mutually beneficial military-energy aspects of its fading strategic partnership with India while simultaneously exploring ‘compensational’ opportunities with Pakistan.

Andrew Korybko is Moscow-based political analyst, journalist and a member of the expert council for the Institute of Strategic Studies and Predictions at the People’s Friendship University of Russia. He specializes in Russian affairs and geopolitics, specifically the US strategy in Eurasia. His other areas of focus include tactics of regime change, color revolutions and unconventional warfare used across the world.


TECTONIC Stupidity of this analyst !

Russia wants to explore "Compensational" opportunities with Pakistan ? .... Go ahead ..dear Russia ... lose the cash-rich, economically strong India and Russia's weak, oil/gas exports based economy will only get even more weaker.

What a stupid senseless article from a mostly biased political analyst (appears like this analyst has sold himself to some anti-Russian entity ... China/US/EU/Nato ? .. to publish articles like the above). The only suggestion in this article that i can agree with ... is the need for India & Russia to come closer in their co-operation across various fields (science/technology/defence/commerce & etc) and for their top leaders (whether PM Modi or President Putin) to chart this path of co-operation with more effectiveness post the unfortunate demise of the Russian Ambassador to India .. Mr. Kadakin.

Unlike in the past - India is more demanding of Russia now .. but it is only demanding quicker provisioning of defence spares or timely replacement of faulty parts in tanks/aircrafts/engines/aircraft carriers & etc and asking better quality in all these items. Yes - India also wants to co-develop some defence products with Russia rather than just ask for ToT like deals in the past & pay humungous prices for low-in-quality-of-service products. Yes - India has a far better satellite launching rockets business addressing some specific satellite market areas and is ambitiously trying to upgrade itself to gain more weight in launching heavier satellites and will eventually challenge Russia in this area. Yes - India already has working Nuclear plants of lesser generation size, has a working self-developed submarine & a soon-to-be-deployed fighter aircraft developed on its own, a properly working battle tank & is building a more of the same. It is easy to observe that ..if this trend of indigenisation goes on .. India may soon buy less of foreign developed defence products (with Russia being the major entity to be affected). As a response - Russia must up its ante and move into developing more premium technologies and products which rapidly emerging countries like India will get tempted to buy at premium costs too. Now, if you look at current Russia.. it's not like Russia is in the pink of health whether it is in economy or the sustainability of its population levels or sustainability of its strength in technology or defence capabilities or skilled people & so on ... compared to how strong it used to be in the past. It is weaker now than in the past.

Every emerging country that wants to strengthen itself will only naturally try to grow from a pure Defence Products importer to a Defence Products exporter if not manage on its own ... its defence requirements through indigenous projects. Iran, Indonesia, Vietnam and similar nations will also go down this path that India has taken ... in a few more years from now. It will be bad for Russia .. if it doesn't understand this aspect of nation development that happens in every country that has nationalistic tendencies and has some sort of history to look back upon as an inspiration for its future growth.

Pakistan may allow non-Indian clients to sleep with it in exchange for a few dollars .. even as the clients can use some of its mercenary soldiers as kill-baits against motivated terrorists in certain geographies were wars are raging or clients will be allowed to hunt some useless terrorists hiding in Pakistan (with roots of these terrorists based in some former Soviet union regions like Uzbekistan or Tajikistan & so on) or hunt some eagles/birds with in its borders to boost the libido of a prince or minister and so on ... but to expect Pakistan to compensate Russia in the fields of Nuclear Plants or Submarines or Fighter Aircrafts or Missiles or Aircraft Carriers .. like how India orders & pays Russia for ... is just plain stupidity exhibited by this political analyst (unless of course he has sold himself to some entity to write this stupid & laughable 'analysis').

Pakistan is but a global beggar that develops terrorists to harm others & rip off others by seeking protection money .. irrespective of whether it has tangoed with USA or China or World Bank or IMF or Saudi Arabia. Pak has never ever returned any money it has taken as a loan for so many decades since last century. The only compensation that will take place between Russia and Pakistan ... is Pakistan begging Russia for free/discounted oil or arms or direct money support and eventually betraying Russia by not giving back the received interest amount even .. let alone payment of principal amount.

India is a time tested ally of Russia until now and will never betray Russia to the US or China or EU and has always stood unmistakably as a strong but less noisy supporter of Russia (whether it is Russia's fight against Ukraine, its actions in Crimea or Syria or hacking of US's Democratic party IT systems & so on).

My best wishes to Russia to tango with Pakistan at India's expense and throw mud on its own heads & lose its most lucrative market !. If push comes to shove - i don't think India will be found wanting to keep Russia at an arm's length .. so as to show its displeasure about Russia cozying up to Pakistan.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby schinnas » 31 Jan 2017 14:32

Rudradev wrote: Russia is pursuing a very broad-based strategy of winning over substantial sections of the Ummah in the service of its geopolitical ends. This includes cultivating alliances with Turkey, Iran, and Egypt as well as Syria. Pakistan is a low-hanging fruit for Russia in this regard, and becoming a "father" to this habitual rentier state only expands the breadth of their influence in the Ummah. The withdrawal of the US from Af-Pak and the wider West Asian theatre has created a vacuum, accelerating the pace at which Russia is moving in to make its presence felt.


Rudradev-ji,
This indicates that Russia has not fine tuned its strategy very well. Unlike Iran or Syria, Pakistan is a more complex entity with multiple pressure points and interests some of which are competing against each other. Instead of a grand umma alliance, we can individually explore what Russia seeks to accomplish with Pakistan. Unlike Turkey or Iran or Syria, Russia has no leverage or economic relations with Pakistan and one does not expect any material economic relationship with that basket case economy for next several years. In Pakistan's context, to be a father means to be a sugar-daddy and Russia can ill afford hard currency embezzlements to its rent-boy the way China does. There is also the India factor to consider for Russia - any material arms sale to Pakistan will inevitably invite a strong reaction from India in terms of cuts in Russian defense purchases, even if by chance Pakistan manages to pay hard currency for such a sale.

Do you really think that geopolitical decisions are taken on the basis of emotional responses such as "hate"?

Forget Chechnya. The first ever transnational jihad, which killed tens of thousands of Russian personnel, was waged in Afghanistan during the 1980s with Pakistan as its principal orchestrator. If Putin made his decisions based on "hate" he wouldn't have placed the Islamophiles of the Kremlin into the driver's seat of Russian foreign policy today. Yet, he has.

No big power uses emotion-based responses as a bellwether of its decision making. Otherwise, why would the US, having lost tens of thousands of soldiers to PRC attacks in Korea in 1952, and several more to PRC proxies in Southeast Asia throughout the 1960s, decide to reorient itself towards Beijing in 1972? Realpolitik trumps all this "hate/wait".


The big failures of real-politics was that it was often removed from reality. Civiliztional hatred and affinity are hard ground realities. Cold real-politic calculations are often deceiving in the long run. In your example above, one can easily see that US made a long term strategic mistake by cosying up to China. Chinese civilization was ultra-nationalistic in its core and considered itself superior and fit to rule to earth. US undermined its super power status by helping grow China. US could easily get out of all its wars in South East Asia or Far East only because there is no fundamental civilizational hatred between US and say Vietnamese or Koreans. It was an ideological war and not a clash of civilizations. Those hard feelings died along with the death of the communist idealogy and associated cold war.

However, while dealing with Islamic world now, one can ill afford to ignore the hard realities of civilizational affinity. However billions US will pour into middle east, it will never be a trusted partner in the long term. Same thing with Russia. Umma will consider Russia at best as a practical leverage against US or other powers such as Europe or China or even India.

Russia's overtures to Pakistan are just one building block in a much bigger project of enlisting the Ummah to its geopolitical purposes. Something that Russia sees as so valuable to its future geostrategic positioning that it is worth alienating India for.


It seems Russia is over extending herself into a game whose rules have changed due to excessive radicalization of Islam. The argument that Islam is predictable and hence control-able is only half-right. Predictable - yes, but control-able?- no. The increasing anarchy and public sentiments in the umma world will make it difficult for any external player to manipulate them to their whims.

At the most, from Moscow's point of view, Trump's victory gives them a breathing space to regroup and pursue their interests which they wouldn't have had after a Clinton victory. Putin will take advantage of this to the extent he can, but he has no incentive whatsoever to change his perceived geopolitical objectives simply because a new regime has temporarily taken power in Washington.


Agree about this for the short term. However, for the long term, the cold war has far outlived its utility and purpose. The cold war mindset has nowhere to go but down. A strategic genius, he may not be, but Trump provides a fantastic window of opportunity for Russia, US and NATO to come closer and carve out their sphere of influences. Longer term, this is better for Russia than to get into a tighter embrace with Chinese who are lusting after the Russia's mineral rich border areas closer to China.

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3564
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Paul » 31 Jan 2017 15:46

All those who were heatedly questioning the Rafale purchase and asking for for Sukhois will soon be eating crow now. The chances of a second sub lease from Russia also is getting lesser by the day.

Come to think of it, it appears MP was the one questioning the Rafale aircraft and was asking for more Sukhois. Modi stepped in and to conserve the relationship with France which now looks to be a good move and asked France to supply 36 Rafales. Again, it is MP who appears to be pushing for FGFA.

If Russia thinks it can balance India with Pakistan, it first needs some caffeine to smell the reality. Modi is willing to decisively move to US camp, it appears Putin has been misreading his signals. The Russian fifth columninsts in Delhi will soon have some explaining to do when they see the arms pipeline drying up. It is not just the Islamophiles, it is Putin himself who seems to have been misreading India starting from UPA-1 time. He wanted India to dump the FICV project and go for BMP3.

Wanted us to fund the MIG35 and so on. When the Chinese and the Turks revert to their true selves and give him dose of hos own medicine, he will see the reality.

Added later: It is possible that Russians cannot blackmail Modi the way they used to eith Nehruvian dynasty with SCB files etc., and it is possible IG and Nehru may have been honeytrapped the way Sukarno was in 50s.

Bart S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2264
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 31 Jan 2017 16:43

Paul wrote:If Russia thinks it can balance India with Pakistan, it first needs some caffeine to smell the reality. Modi is willing to decisively move to US camp, it appears Putin has been misreading his signals.


Precisely! Only Pakis are delusional enough (thanks to believing their own propaganda and lingering cold-war era equal-equal by the State Department and NPAs) to think that they are in any way equal to India or can 'balance' India so its pretty shocking that Russians seem to be falling victim to the same delusions.

Of course Pakis can be a terrorist nuisance and general tool of containment to an extent, hence useful to China but hard to see what Russia can get from playing such an angle especially when what they need from India is a market and a non-hostile power.

zoverian
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 16 Aug 2016 10:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby zoverian » 31 Jan 2017 17:13

Added later: It is possible that Russians cannot blackmail Modi the way they used to eith Nehruvian dynasty with SCB files etc., and it is possible IG and Nehru may have been honeytrapped the way Sukarno was in 50s.[/quote]

+1

abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2610
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby abhik » 31 Jan 2017 20:06

Paul wrote:All those who were heatedly questioning the Rafale purchase and asking for for Sukhois will soon be eating crow now...


Hardly, LCAs + possibly more Sukhois made the most logical choice, but that's OT. Fact is neither France nor the Russians are our mamas, they both will be full of platitudes when it suites them and show us the finger when it does not. Anyways the current government has already allocated sufficient tribute for out Russian 'friends' - $5+ billion for S400s, light helicopters, 400 more tincans :evil: with many more in the pipeline.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6850
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby habal » 31 Jan 2017 20:17

pakistan has no money, Russia is not giving Pakistan anything unless Chinese are funding Pakistani defence budget.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 31 Jan 2017 20:19

Doval on patch-up flight to Moscow

Charu Sudan Kasturi

https://www.telegraphindia.com/1170131/ ... JCEnfJcvEZ

New Delhi, Jan. 30: Prime Minister Narendra Modi has rushed national security adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval to Moscow for talks with his counterpart in a bid to patch up growing differences between the traditional friends amid global uncertainty over US President Donald Trump's policies.

Doval met Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of Russia's Federal Security Council, today and the two may have a second round of talks tomorrow, senior officials familiar with the Indian NSA's visit told The Telegraph .

The meetings between Doval and Patrushev come at a time India and Russia are struggling to retain the trust that has defined their friendship for decades, but that is fraying as both countries seek deeper partnerships with each other's rivals.

Russia has been worried about India's tightening embrace of the US and the stirrings of a thaw with Ukraine, while New Delhi is upset about Moscow's growing ties with Islamabad - concerns that were discussed by Doval and Patrushev on Monday, officials indicated.

But Doval's visit, officials said, is also timed to ensure that India remains closely engaged with Moscow at a time Russia's own relationship with the US appears on the cusp of change, following Trump's election and swearing in.

The Indian NSA's visit comes less than two days after Trump spoke on the telephone with Russian President Vladimir Putin, in a conversation the White House described as "positive".

"The positive call was a significant start to improving the relationship between the United States and Russia that is in need of repair," the White House said in a statement on the Trump-Putin conversation. "Both President Trump and President Putin are hopeful that after today's call, the two sides can move quickly to tackle terrorism and other important issues of mutual concern."

A weakening India-Russia relationship at this juncture could facilitate a diplomatic rehabilitation for Pakistan, fear Indian officials, because of Trump's deference to cooperation with Russia in counter-terrorism - including in West Asia. Russia in December held trilateral talks with Pakistan and China on combating the growing threat of the Islamic State in Afghanistan, and Trump has made clear battling that terror group is a top foreign policy priority for his administration.

"The two leaders emphasised that joining efforts in fighting the main threat - international terrorism - is a top priority," a Kremlin statement on the conversation between Trump and Putin on Saturday said. "The presidents spoke out for establishing real coordination of actions between Russia and the USA aimed at defeating ISIS and other terrorists groups in Syria."

Amid growing worries over the spread of the IS into Afghanistan, Pakistan has pitched itself as a buffer state and the best bet at getting the Taliban to talks as a counter to the IS. India on the other hand has campaigned in particular over the past year to try and diplomatically "isolate" Pakistan over its support and shelter to terror groups that have targeted India.

India is also closely watching the thaw in Russia's ties with the US because of its impact on New Delhi's own strategic calculations - and spinoff effects détente between Moscow and Washington may have Russia's ties with China.

"Relations between the US and Russia could undergo a transformation that we may not have seen since 1945," foreign secretary S. Jaishankar said earlier this month. "Its dimensions, leave alone implications, are hard to predict."

Tensions with the US had pushed Russia into a strategic embrace with China, which has worried India over the past two years. India is hoping a thaw that between the US and Russia - coupled with rising tensions under Trump between Washington and Beijing - weakens the China-Russia partnership.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2017 11:40

India, Russia agree on joint action plan to counter terrorism

http://zeenews.india.com/india/india-ru ... 72368.html
New Delhi: India and Russia on Tuesday agreed to have a joint action plan to counter the global scourge of terrorism, the External Affairs Ministry said.

The decision was taken at a high-level meeting here where the Indian side was led by Secretary (East) in the External Affairs Ministry, Preeti Saran, while the Russian delegation was led by Deputy Foreign Minister Oleg V. Syromolotov.

"Both sides agreed to a joint action plan which seeks to focus on enhancing capacity building, frequent expert-level meetings, sharing of insights, exchange of best practices in countering radicalisation and curbing terrorism," said the External Affairs Ministry statement.

It said both sides shared views and assessment on the threats posed by the scourge of terrorism, including state-sponsored cross-border terrorism - an oblique reference to Pakistan - faced by India, the statement said.


"They also shared concerns regarding the emergence of Af-Pak region as the epicentre of terrorism. They discussed successful experiences in curbing terrorism and countering radicalisation," it said.

According to the statement, India and Russia agreed that the UNSC 1267 Sanctions List processes for blacklisting various terrorist individuals and entities must be stringently complied with.


Last year, China blocked the move to have sanctions imposed against Pakistan-based terrorist Masood Azhar, chief of the Jaish-e-Mohammed and one of the three terrorists freed in exchange of passengers of a hijacked Indian Airlines plane in 1999.

"Prospects for deepening engagement on counter-terrorism under the UN, BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa), and SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) mechanisms were also emphasised," the statement said.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20513
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 01 Feb 2017 13:00

You need to be a linguistic expert to be able to read between those lines,but there appears to have been some sort of agreement that satisfies both sides as to the strat. scenario in the Af-Pak region and a clearer understanding of Indo-US,Russia-Pak relations.
I find it odd that while the US talks turkey with the Taliban,ISI et al,taking an attitude very inimical to India,Russia engaging with Pak to avoid the Islamist cancer spreading into it from the south-the Central Asian route,must be taboo!

Secondly,one finds it strange that some want the lease of a second N-sub from Russia to fail,essential for us if we are to deal with the PLANs N-subs,as if the US was tripping over itself to sell us N-subs,stealth birds,et al,which it hasn't even given to its closest allies.

We must acknowledge that in recent times,we have been fawning over Uncle Sam,for gains yet to materialize,while ignoring old trusted friends like Russia The US and its agents in India are hell-bent upon destroying the decades-old friendship between India and Russia,which enabled us to defeat Pak,create BDesh,and face China with dvanced military weapon systems. All this while maintaining our independence and sovereignty,unlike demands from the US for CISMOA,etc.,etc.turning us into a mere vassal state .Unfortunately,there are those in the corridors of power in Delhi who prefer being vassals to the White man,preferring to be "your obedient servant" as per usual!

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Kashi » 01 Feb 2017 13:21

^^ PhilipJi, it seems you'll go any lengths to justify Russian actions even if they are highly inimical to Indian interests. It seems all your venom is/was reserved for Narendra Modi in the Demonetisation dhaga.

Do you even believe what you wrote?

I find it odd that while the US talks turkey with the Taliban,ISI et al,taking an attitude very inimical to India,Russia engaging with Pak to avoid the Islamist cancer spreading into it from the south-the Central Asian route,must be taboo!


Do you seriously believe this codsawallop that by engaging with Pakistan, Russia can achieve what you claim it intends to achieve?


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashokk, milindc, suryag and 60 guests