India-Russia: News & Analysis

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 13 Apr 2018 03:43

Fascinating video from Defexpo, watch from around 2:00 to hear directly from a guy who really knows what he is talking about, how our 'strategic partner' and 'only trustworthy friend' screws us over on spares:

:rotfl:


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Manish_P » 13 Apr 2018 12:40

I do hope that guy doesn't get into trouble for straight talking :)

Thanks for sharing

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 13 Apr 2018 13:06

The phone call,which was initiated from the Indian side,is an indication of the seriousness with which the GOI takes of the situ in the ME and the special relationship India has with Russia.,which both sides apparently want to further strengthen. into an
"exclusive strategic partnership".The word "exclusive" indicates that in our relationships with other nations,Russia will always come first.We must see what that means in the coming days.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Putin ... eat-547588
Putin phones India to discuss ‘Exclusive Strategic Partnership’ amid War Threat
Friday, April 13, 2018

RUSSIA looks poised to strike an alliance with India after Vladimir Putin called for the development of an “exclusive strategic partnership” after talks on the phone with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi as the Syria crisis intensifies.

The Kremlin said the two leaders discussed developing an “exclusive strategic partnership between Russia and India".

[b]Putin and Modi agreed to maintain contact in the future after India initiated the phone call on Wednesday as US President Donald Trump threatened to unleash missiles on Russia

Russia’s relationship with India appears to be stronger than most, with Modi last month congratulating Putin on his re-election as Russian President and expressing hope, that under his leadership, the 'Special and Privileged Strategic Partnership' between India and Russia would continue to go from strength-to-strength.

Yesterday, United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Chair Sonia Gandhi hailed the relationship between the two countries, saying the partnership has resulted in laying the foundations of India's industrialisation.

She also commended Russia's support of India during the Bangladesh War of Independence, adding Moscow "stood like a rock" with India during New Delhi's moment of "grave crisis".

The head of the UPA also visited Moscow on Monday to inaugurate a photoi exhibition of former Prime Minister and her late mother-in-law Indira Gandhi in what was seen as a rare overseas trip for a reson other than medical treatment.

The most recent phone call between Putin and Modi, details of which haven’t been released, could be seen as the formation of a closer alliance between the two countries as tensions between Russia and a number of other global nations continue to escalate to dangerous levels.

It could also be particularly relevant at a time when Russia and US draw closer to being on the brink of a potential war after Mr Putin threatened to shoot down US missiles fired at Syria’s forces in response to an alleged chemical attack on the country’s civilians at the weekend.

In a defiant reply, Trump tweeted: “Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria.

“Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and smart!

“You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills people and enjoys it!”

Trump followed this up shortly afterwards with another tweet, stating that the relationship between the US and Russia “is worse now than it ever has been, and that includes the Cold War."

Senior Russian leaders have warned of retaliation if the US President orders missile strikes to go ahead.

Both sides are looking to engage their allies in the bitterly-divided conflict stemming from the chemical attack on the rebel-held town of Douma on Saturday.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s government has so far denied responsibility for the attack near Damascus that killed more than 70 people.

Last October, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said he was working towards better relations with India after he accused it of not putting pressure on North Korea to end its reckelss war programme

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Anant » 13 Apr 2018 20:57

I for one am super excited to hear what this super dooper es-special highly exclusive jiggly dost club is going to be! To be invited to be part of the world's smartest, most handsome and virile chess playing grandmaster stud muffin secret handshake club really says something. Wow, I better pinch myself to make sure this is true! :D Thankfully, I don't think most people in the Indian Gov't and Defence Ministry are as daft. Time will tell. In the meanwhile, enjoy making the Hornets in Hyderabad. You know the IAF will be flying them in short order. Man, that will really piss off World Grandmaster and bare chest model of the month VVP.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 14 Apr 2018 11:53

If you think that F-18s will ever be made in India dream on.Boeing and LH have in the past signed umpteen petty agreements with Indian cos. for manufacturing various items.The kingdom of babus in the MOD is the most difficult of all forces in the world to get its backside moving and powerful private players want their pound of flesh for supporting this govt. When HAL are struggling to produce the LCA , are successful only with Ru fighters as the MKI production shows, the GOI will think thrice before awarding it yet another fighter programme and continue
with its incompetence- even Dassault were highly sceptical of the quality of HAL produced Rafales, refusing to guarantee The quality of HAL built birds,one reason why sealing the deal took so long.

There first has to be a competiton and technical evaluation.The MMRCA saga will play out again.This time, one may expect even newer aircraft , or newer avatars of exg. ones to throw their hat into the ring. Who will want a 30+ year, sorry, 40 yr. old Yanqui hag with inches of makeup in IAF roundels?! Having already ordered 36, the Rafale stands the best chance of Western birds unless the French prices remain at stratospheric heights.They havc to get realistic or lose the plot..When the SHornet never even made it to the finals last time round on technical grounds so many years ago , only a certified lunatic will pick it.

The Gripen the next best chance if the LCA production falters.Insurance policy for an LCA cock-up.The MIG-35 the most cost-effective answer but the IAF want new toys.They most likely will get their way with the Rafale.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 14 Apr 2018 19:12

Philip wrote:The phone call,which was initiated from the Indian side,is an indication of the seriousness with which the GOI takes of the situ in the ME and the special relationship India has with Russia.,which both sides apparently want to further strengthen. into an
"exclusive strategic partnership".The word "exclusive" indicates that in our relationships with other nations,Russia will always come first.We must see what that means in the coming days.


So the guy from Aisi Waisi bank who made an unsolicited call to my phone with an 'exclusive' credit card offer really meant that among all the other customer relationships, I come first? Yay :mrgreen:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karthik S » 14 Apr 2018 19:13

:lol:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Zynda » 15 Apr 2018 01:00

Russia rues its declining role as arms supplier to India
For years, Russian equipment and defence firms were the highlight of Indian Defexpo and Aero India shows. After live displays, mainly featuring Russian aircraft, helicopters and armoured vehicles, the crowds would throng the glitzy, neon-lit Russian exhibits where executives in lightweight suits and improbably long-legged lady receptionists politely fielded the buzz surrounding the next big Russian contract.

Few would have predicted how quickly change has come. On Wednesday, after opening Defexpo 2018, Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, in a swarm of subordinates and bodyguards, was touring the exhibits in Hall 1, where the big Russian exhibitors and Israeli defence vendors were arrayed opposite each other. Senior Russian officials recount that Sitharaman turned abruptly to the Israeli firms — Israel Aerospace Industries, Rafael and Elbit Systems — and strolled past without bothering to even look at a single Russian exhibit.

Russian attempts to engage her attention were blocked by the guards around her. :)

“This is what the India-Russia defence relationship has come to. India’s political environment is no longer that friendly to Russia”, says a top Russian executive. He ruled out a suggestion that Sitharaman’s snub might have been inadvertent. “A defence minister prepares for an event like Defexpo. She has assistants and advisors, who guide her along. It was deliberate”, he declared. Contacted by email for confirmation, the defence ministry has not responded.

Only later in the day were the Russians placated, when the navy chief, Admiral Sunil Lanba, and other senior admirals visited the navy-related Russian exhibits.

Russia remains India’s largest arms supplier, but its share is dwindling rapidly. A report last month from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute states that, in the five-year period 2013 to 2017, India sourced 62 per cent of its defence imports from Russia. That was down from 79 per cent in the previous five-year period.

A key reason for Russia’s decline was evident at Defexpo: India’s frustration at the low serviceability of Russian equipment and the shortage of spares. An India-Russia Military Industrial Conference held at Defexpo 2018 focused on “improvement of after-sales support of Russian-origin defence platforms being exploited by Indian defence forces and also to facilitate domestic manufacturing of some of the identified spare parts…”, India’s defence ministry announced.

The seven memoranda of understanding signed between Indian private firms and Russian OEMs were all aimed at ensuring the smooth supply of spares and assemblies for Russian-origin weaponry already in service in the Indian military.

A veteran Russian defence industry technocrat, who has supplied arms to India since Soviet Union days, says that Indian attitudes towards arms purchases had changed dramatically. In earlier times, the Soviet Union sold cheap, rugged and unsophisticated equipment — which was all India could afford anyway. “Now India has progressed. It can buy expensive and sophisticated weaponry and it is no longer content with cheap, rugged Russian arms. But, even though India’s military still has high regard for Russian arms, New Delhi’s political attitude to Moscow has changed”, he says. “Moscow sold weaponry to India on a friendship basis, at friendship prices. But India now wants Russia to compete in open global tenders. Fine! We will also deal with India on a purely commercial basis then,” says a Russian company chief executive.

In any such conversation with Russians, India’s “growing closeness with America” quickly bubbles to the surface. But when countered with the charge that Moscow too has come closer to Pakistan and China, the Russians quickly interrupt. “There is no friendship in those relationships, like there is with India. Moscow engages Islamabad in order to have a handle on the Taliban. And China shares a long border with Russia. Every country deals with its immediate neighbours on a special basis”, claims the veteran Russian technocrat.

When we point out that India and Russia cooperate on projects that no other country does — for example, in designing and building INS Arihant, the nuclear missile submarine, and the lease of INS Chakra, a Russian nuclear propelled submarine — the Russians bitterly point at India’s “backtracking” on conventional submarines under Project 75-I.

“In 1999, India’s 30-year submarine programme decided to build six western-origin and six Russian-origin submarines. India bought the first six Scorpene submarines from France, but where is the contract for the other six? India wants Russia to compete with western shipyards in an open tender to build six boats equipped with ‘air-independent propulsion’. Why is India not giving Russia the order for the next six [submarines]?” says the Russian executive.

The Russians also point to long-standing inter-governmental agreements that have been languishing for years — specifically naming the deals to co-develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, build Kamov-226T light helicopters and buy the S-400 long range ground to air missile system.
“Countries with genuine security problems buy simple, rugged weaponry. Rich countries, which maintain ‘trophy militaries’, buy sophisticated costly kit that may or may not work in war. India faces real threats. It should not forget its longstanding Russian friendship,” he concludes.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 15 Apr 2018 01:42

^
Just wow. Shocking levels of Paki attributes on display from the Russians in that piece: A sense of entitlement, denial and refusal to accept any faults of their own, unwillingness to recognize reality and instead making up logic to suit their delusions, a series of falsehoods and half-truths presented with a straight face, and cognitive dissonance and making up excuses to explain away anything and everything.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Apr 2018 02:13

Bart S wrote:
Philip wrote:The phone call,which was initiated from the Indian side,is an indication of the seriousness with which the GOI takes of the situ in the ME and the special relationship India has with Russia.,which both sides apparently want to further strengthen. into an
"exclusive strategic partnership".The word "exclusive" indicates that in our relationships with other nations,Russia will always come first.We must see what that means in the coming days.


So the guy from Aisi Waisi bank who made an unsolicited call to my phone with an 'exclusive' credit card offer really meant that among all the other customer relationships, I come first? Yay :mrgreen:

Point is that you called aisi waisi bank, not the other way around...

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 15 Apr 2018 02:18

Cain Marko wrote:
Bart S wrote:
So the guy from Aisi Waisi bank who made an unsolicited call to my phone with an 'exclusive' credit card offer really meant that among all the other customer relationships, I come first? Yay :mrgreen:

Point is that you called aisi waisi bank, not the other way around...


No, the point is the wet dreams and spin by Russophiles based on the word 'exclusive' somewhere in the source article.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Apr 2018 02:28

^actually Phillip just posted that article in which the word was used, aap ko itni kyun takleef ho rahi hai Saar. It's not like comrade Philipov made the call or wrote the article.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 15 Apr 2018 03:06

Cain Marko wrote:^actually Phillip just posted that article in which the word was used, aap ko itni kyun takleef ho rahi hai Saar. It's not like comrade Philipov made the call or wrote the article.


Sirji, please read his post, the quoted commentary was entirely his.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Apr 2018 03:15

No doubt that he gave his own interpretation of the article, however, the word in question was from the article itself including the part that suggests that it was India who initiated the call.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Apr 2018 08:50

So, out of sheer curiosity - what happens to the World Cup now? Will I still get to watch Messi do his thing ? Or are a bunch of countries going to call it off and screw my summer entertainmentt?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 15 Apr 2018 10:12

The quoted words were exactly as was posted in the media report.Like the CIA said of Castro, "I do not lie!"
Neither am I economical with the truth like the Brits.

Let the govt. if it is indeed trying to sideline Russia- we know the huge effort that the US is making to enslave us with its antique wares, dangling carrots in the faces of carpet baggers, let it learn the hard truth when the balloon goes up.

However, I do not think the situ is as bad as is being made out.Our NSA is visiting Moscow shortly to push through long delayed agreements.The strikes against Syria which we have said do not have a UN mandate and the Chem Weapons body should've made their inspection first, shows that we too are vulnerable if the West one day train their missiles at us.We need those S-400s , top priority apart from other critical systems.The PM is also visiting China , attempts to lessen border tension.

PS:If the DM did not visit Ru stalls, either by omission or commission, it is a serious error, as all exhibitors have taken a lot of time and money to participate. Common courtesy must be exercised to all. In the case of Russia which is cooperating with us on so many critical projects which the West will never emulate, it is even more inexplicable .If true,her aides must be wrapped on the knuckles if they were responsible.



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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 16 Apr 2018 19:13

Bart S wrote:^
Just wow. Shocking levels of Paki attributes on display from the Russians in that piece: A sense of entitlement, denial and refusal to accept any faults of their own, unwillingness to recognize reality and instead making up logic to suit their delusions, a series of falsehoods and half-truths presented with a straight face, and cognitive dissonance and making up excuses to explain away anything and everything.


They go out of their way to constantly ignore Indian concerns about spares, about maintenance, and then even the Indian proposal to make their spares in India is not heeded because they want to gyp us for more dinero .. and on top of it they expect Madame Minister to give them the golden treatment. Perhaps they wont wake up till they lose the Indian market entirely.
What was also unique about the Russians was their so called exclusivity, now with increasing sales and outright TOT to PRC, even that is not there. And if anyone thinks the J-10, J-20, FC-31, HQ-9 etc happened without Russian consultancy, I have a bridge to sell them.
The only reason we havent dumped them for France is presumably because of the UN veto and we can't afford deeper TOT level ties with Europe. But once we get that kind of money, Russias arms selling days to India are over. And all due to their own behavior.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 16 Apr 2018 19:18

No fan of the author, but even he wouldnt have the cojones to make up a story like this.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/europe/ ... 2013-11-17

"Bahut pareshan kiya," fumes a sailor on the crew of INS Vikramaditya, the massive new addition to the Indian Navy's fleet. The Russians troubled us a lot, he says, succinctly describing the Indian Navy's experience over the last 10 years in this freezing town on the White Sea coast. The 45,000 ton aircraft carrier was ceremonially transferred to the Indian Navy on November 16, nearly five years later than promised and over $1.5 billion over contracted cost. While November 16 marks an undoubtedly important day for Indo-Russian relations, the over 1,600 Indians officers and sailors departing these shores later this month won't be sorry to do so. At every level, big and small, from the level of the entire navy, down to the youngest sailor, there's relief that it's finally over.


That's 1600 Indians the Russians managed to cheese off. 1600 sailors officers who will rise to command positions and make decisions and influence them.

"Eta secret". Russian for "Sorry, that's secret". That, according to Indian personnel who've spent years in Severodvinsk learning how to sail their enormous new ship, has been the most common response from Russian personnel to any query or request for help. Over 188 days, during two rounds of sea trials between 2012 and 2013, Indian personnel are said to have been deeply irritated with the manner in which the Russian trial team on board ran the show, speaking largely in their own language, and ticking off mandatory test points on the ship, while bewildered Indian Navy personnel repeatedly requested them to slow down and take everyone on board, so to speak. The Indian side has had far less experience on the ship than it would have liked: of the 19,500 miles covered by the ship during trials, barely 1,700 miles were under the command of Commodore Suraj Berry, who is now officially commanding officer of the vessel.


Unwilling to train or even assist their Indian customers. How brilliant.

Hundreds of Indian officers and sailors have been rotated through Severodvinsk over the last decade in embedded observation teams or specialised training units. The length of their commitment has meant that most brought along their families on two year stints to the town, a tough call, given that it is truly a tiny town whose economy is entirely centred around the shipyard that converted the Admiral Gorshkov into the Vikramaditya. Unlike Moscow and St. Petersburgh, Severodvinsk doesn't have any English schools to speak of, forcing many families to leave their children behind in India with relatives, or make the younger ones attend good Russian medium schools in this town. No Indian military project has seen such a large-scale excursion of personnel to another country for such an extended period.


Indian money is fine though.

And we all know of the similar experiences for T-90, Su-30 MKI etc.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 16 Apr 2018 19:22

Modern Russian MIC seems to be fairly arrogant with its existing customers, incompetent (Vikramaditya is perfect example), hands over half finished duds (MiG-29K) or those which require decades of hand-holding (T-90) and on top of it all, cannot provide spares and support on time, over charges for what it does provide, and finally, deliberately delays programs so that the customer is forced to keep looking at them for spares and support.

How long will India put up with such BS.

More and more platforms are coming locally, and as Indian economy gets some punch, the Russian's price gouging days seem numbered. For every Brahmos or Su-30 MKI (some success at least), there is a T-90, MiG-29K, Smerch or whatever.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 16 Apr 2018 19:34

Karan M wrote:No fan of the author, but even he wouldnt have the cojones to make up a story like this.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/europe/ ... 2013-11-17



The author has 400% made it up.

My first cousin, then a Lt. Cdr. and helicopter pilot, was stationed at Severodvensk for 3 years as part of the IN team supervising the Vikramaditya refit. He never once had a bad thing to say about his Russian counterparts, or the process, or any of it.

The forces on both sides are highly professional, and respectful of each other. Any $crewing around is being done at the Kremlin/South-Bloc level.

Oh by the way his family went and stayed with him the whole time. His kid (with other IN kids) went to a school where they had Indian teachers teaching English and Indian languages, and Russian teachers instructing in other subjects in Russian medium. Good for the boy, he learned a foreign language fluently in the process. He also had opportunities there (particularly in coaching for sports, which he is very keen on) that he would never have had here.

Just saying.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 16 Apr 2018 21:13

I know of some who've spent time in Ru training for X platform,etc.They've had the highest respect for their "comrades", who have been very warm and hospitable hosts.There has been no arrogance , disrespect whatsoever.The same for those who've been to the UK or US too.There is a lot of professionalism displayed in the militaries in both east or west.

Regarding the problems we've had in the past with Sov. era weaponry, some of which still may linger on, an item by item approach is reqd.Even for spares for western eqpt. the tortuous chicanes of the MOD take in some cases over a yr. at least for approval and only AFTER that does the OEM start manufacturing the part.It's not the same like going to the supermarket and buying a 6-pack when you're thirsty!

Then there are the agreements signed by the MOD not the services.Often v.badly negotiated like the Scorpene subs were we were truly "shafted" ,pun intended. The Gorky acquisition was not a straight deal acquiring a sub type or warship, but a highly complicated task turning a hybrid STOVL cruiser into a conventional flat top , which was not built in Ru but in the UKR.The complexity,cost and time of the task was underestimated on both sides.As far as the ship goes we've been operating it superbly for a few years now.Exercising with hhe USN and other navies.But for the heavy maintenance, the 29Ks are superb aircraft equipped with KH-32s and in the future BMos- NG too.

In order to rectify any post-sale technical issues, JVs with Indian entities have or are being set up for all Sov. era and new Ru eqpt.These establishments in India, will have several years of stocks of spares which are required according to the maintenance schedule like automobiles.Some may even offer servicing services as some pvt. entities and DPSUs have tie-ups with various global OEMs.HSL will support Kilo subs, R co. for Dassault, etc. and now Mahindras for Japanese amphibs.

Therefore in a short time, these woes should cease, provided the acquisition of such items is streamlined by the MOD.I think that the amount of money that a service can order on its own for quick approval has been increased , but these urgent reqs. which affect availability of the platform or system have to be fast- tracked in a single-window type of solution ,like the manner in which we recently bought critically reqd. stocks of ammo, etc.

Let Russian OEMs compete on their own for some tenders.There are others like BMos which never would've happened if not for pro-active attitudes on both sides.When we're offered certain advsnced systems which are unobtainable from the West, esp. in JVs,we should critically evaluate the same asap so as not to lose an opportunity to acquire cutting edge systems which givd us the qualitativd edge over our enemies and help us indigenise even further.
That we can now produce the BMos seeker is a great achievement for the JV.As it was said, we could even start exporting the same in the future to the OEM!

So let's not simply condemn Ru. without understanding the entire gamut of cooperation and what a 70 yr. old mutual relationship has given to each side.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Avarachan » 17 Apr 2018 07:53

Rudradev wrote:
Karan M wrote:No fan of the author, but even he wouldnt have the cojones to make up a story like this.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/europe/ ... 2013-11-17



The author has 400% made it up.

My first cousin, then a Lt. Cdr. and helicopter pilot, was stationed at Severodvensk for 3 years as part of the IN team supervising the Vikramaditya refit. He never once had a bad thing to say about his Russian counterparts, or the process, or any of it.

The forces on both sides are highly professional, and respectful of each other. Any $crewing around is being done at the Kremlin/South-Bloc level.

Oh by the way his family went and stayed with him the whole time. His kid (with other IN kids) went to a school where they had Indian teachers teaching English and Indian languages, and Russian teachers instructing in other subjects in Russian medium. Good for the boy, he learned a foreign language fluently in the process. He also had opportunities there (particularly in coaching for sports, which he is very keen on) that he would never have had here.

Just saying.


Thanks for standing up for the truth, Rudradev. It is a major objective of Western Deep State agents to weaken the Indo-Russian strategic partnership. They're using their assets in the English-language media towards that end.

By the way, for those who wonder about the Russian strategy towards Pakistan, it is aimed at the U.S. There are analysts (Catherine Austin Fitts, etc.) who say that the U.S. stock market is propped up by the money laundering associated with drug trafficking (from Afghanistan/Pakistan/etc.). If that flow of money stops, the U.S. economy will crash.
https://ratical.org/co-globalize/narcoDollars.html
https://home.solari.com/resume/

The same Pakistani drug-trafficking networks which collaborate with the U.S. are also active in India. As is well known, illegal drugs are ravaging Punjab. If this flow could be reduced, it would be good for India.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Avarachan » 17 Apr 2018 08:04

By the way, for those talking about the high cost of Russian spare-parts (a mark-up of 600-800%), it's common for the mark-up from European companies to the U.S. government to be similar.

The solution to this issue is for the Indian military-industrial complex to indigenize, as Saurav Jha says ... It is not financially possible to build a large, top-tier military with a significant percentage of imported weapons.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby sunnyP » 17 Apr 2018 14:04

It’s remarkable that Russia's Ambassador to India can, on Indian soil, praise Pakistan in such a way.


Russian envoy to India defends country’s growing ties with Pakistan


In my take…after this country joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, after this country started to take serious measures to curb the financing of terror, the credibility of Pakistan is growing and there is no reason, no sense to deny its wish, its will to be a part of regional and global efforts to fight terror, to search for stability and to enhance economic integration,” he said during the question and answer session.

Earlier in his speech, Kudashev said Russia is “open for contacts with every country” to ensure regional stability. Without naming Pakistan or the US, he also said “excessive pressure” on any of Afghanistan’s neighbours would “just antagonise them and make numerous problems even more complicated”.



https://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news ... hnhXM.html
Last edited by sunnyP on 17 Apr 2018 14:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 17 Apr 2018 14:21

The US and Pak are going to have air exercises together..under planning, so what gives? But I don't share the good ambassador's optimism. Pak under the jackboot of the military can never be brought to heel.It has to be decimated.Pak flaunt's its goonda status like the mafia don it is sheltering- a crude blackmail attempt to do evil if protection money is not paid.So far all these decades with the US it has worked.Let the Russians learn the hard way,, but then they aren't handing out a dole to Pak!

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2018 15:32

Avarachan wrote:By the way, for those talking about the high cost of Russian spare-parts (a mark-up of 600-800%), it's common for the mark-up from European companies to the U.S. government to be similar.

The solution to this issue is for the Indian military-industrial complex to indigenize, as Saurav Jha says ... It is not financially possible to build a large, top-tier military with a significant percentage of imported weapons.


Most of what is written is driven by Media Perception than Reality , If Media write India-Russia relation is bad then it just revebrates , Most of this Journos are on US Corporate payscale as they then enjoy free trip to US and other assignment.

When Ajai Shukla says at Def Expo Nirma Sitharaman ignored the Russian booth completely and went ahead and checked others and then he made a big story from it quoting again an unnamed Russian Source , I showed him the pic of MOD Nirmala visiting Defexpo booth of UVZ and he did not bother to reply or correct his report

Image

https://vpk.name/news/212365_ministru_o ... i_uvz.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 17 Apr 2018 15:36

sunnyP wrote:It’s remarkable that Russia's Ambassador to India can, on Indian soil, praise Pakistan in such a way.


Russian envoy to India defends country’s growing ties with Pakistan


In my take…after this country joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, after this country started to take serious measures to curb the financing of terror, the credibility of Pakistan is growing and there is no reason, no sense to deny its wish, its will to be a part of regional and global efforts to fight terror, to search for stability and to enhance economic integration,” he said during the question and answer session.

Earlier in his speech, Kudashev said Russia is “open for contacts with every country” to ensure regional stability. Without naming Pakistan or the US, he also said “excessive pressure” on any of Afghanistan’s neighbours would “just antagonise them and make numerous problems even more complicated”.



https://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news ... hnhXM.html


I would welcome Russian economic relation with Pakistan and it is in Indias interest during Crisis we cannot allow China or US to do the bidding on behalf of Pakistan , We need an independent channel via Russia to talk to them should we need to during any crisis.

While russia has to be sensitive not to sell any arms that would in any way impact india negatively

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 18 Apr 2018 11:51

sunnyP wrote:It’s remarkable that Russia's Ambassador to India can, on Indian soil, praise Pakistan in such a way.


Russian envoy to India defends country’s growing ties with Pakistan


In my take…after this country joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, after this country started to take serious measures to curb the financing of terror, the credibility of Pakistan is growing and there is no reason, no sense to deny its wish, its will to be a part of regional and global efforts to fight terror, to search for stability and to enhance economic integration,” he said during the question and answer session.

Earlier in his speech, Kudashev said Russia is “open for contacts with every country” to ensure regional stability. Without naming Pakistan or the US, he also said “excessive pressure” on any of Afghanistan’s neighbours would “just antagonise them and make numerous problems even more complicated”.



https://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news ... hnhXM.html


Simply put Russia in an effort of keeping alive its Soviet superpower delusions of grandeur in the face of a real and substantial diminution in National Power has resigned itself to playing Tonto to the Peoples Republic of China’s Lone Ranger in the East including in our bailiwick and in the former the former Soviet stamping grounds in the Central Asian Republic’s aka Stans, in return for being able to temporarily pursue its irredentist delusions of grandeur Power in the West in areas such as Georgia and Ukraine. Hence Russia is and will increasingly kow-tow to the PRC whims and desires by pushing inimical initiatives like BRI/OBOR/CPEC to India besides by aiding and abetting the PRC’s Taller than Himalayas, Deeper than Indian Ocean, Sweeter than Honey, Iron Brother ally the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Our leaders must recognise this diminution in National Power induced Russian realignment of interests with the 2 countries that are most inimical to our National Interest and act to thwart Russia in in its actions in the West. India should not give Russia respite for choosing to playing younger brother to the PRC in our part of the world.

Another version of the same story of Russia playing Tonto to the PRC’s Lone Ranger from a Livemint starting with my quoting the nauseous comment by Russian Ambassador to India Nikolay Kudashev which is a warning that Russia could very act to stymie efforts at FATF to take meaningful action against the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and can also be expected to be very accommodative of that country when they inevitably land up at the IMF for a loan:

“The credibility of this country (Pakistan) after it joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), after it started to take serious measures on the financing of terror, the credibility of Pakistan is growing. There is no reason, no sense to deny its wish to be part of the regional and global effort to fight terror, to search for stability and enhanced economic integration,”


From Live Mint:

Terror crackdown has raised Pakistan’s credibility: Russia


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 18 Apr 2018 22:11

^^ When Russians says that pakistan has launched a crackdown on terror they are truly using a forked tongue. In propagating the Pakistani narrative of its sacrifice and action in the war on terror, they are willfully ignoring its acts of terrorism against India. By assuring its support to pakistan it is emboldening them to continue using the terror tap against India.

Post its economic descent and after increasingly becoming the lapdog of China, it will be interesting and fun to watch Russia seeking the company of pakistan, who true to their track record will take its support for granted, will simultaneously stroke islamic fervor in its area of influence and demand military supplies from it. Must say Russia is choosing well. :lol:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby RoyG » 19 Apr 2018 01:40

Vips wrote:^^ When Russians says that pakistan has launched a crackdown on terror they are truly using a forked tongue. In propagating the Pakistani narrative of its sacrifice and action in the war on terror, they are willfully ignoring its acts of terrorism against India. By assuring its support to pakistan it is emboldening them to continue using the terror tap against India.

Post its economic descent and after increasingly becoming the lapdog of China, it will be interesting and fun to watch Russia seeking the company of pakistan, who true to their track record will take its support for granted, will simultaneously stroke islamic fervor in its area of influence and demand military supplies from it. Must say Russia is choosing well. :lol:


It is in the sense that it is only through Pakistan that you can exert more pressure on America. India is in no position to do the same. India in 5-10 years wont be needing Russia for much except to maintain the world balance of power.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 19 Apr 2018 02:28

Avarachan wrote:
By the way, for those who wonder about the Russian strategy towards Pakistan, it is aimed at the U.S. There are analysts (Catherine Austin Fitts, etc.) who say that the U.S. stock market is propped up by the money laundering associated with drug trafficking (from Afghanistan/Pakistan/etc.). If that flow of money stops, the U.S. economy will crash.
https://ratical.org/co-globalize/narcoDollars.html
https://home.solari.com/resume/

The same Pakistani drug-trafficking networks which collaborate with the U.S. are also active in India. As is well known, illegal drugs are ravaging Punjab. If this flow could be reduced, it would be good for India.


Why should anybody in India give a flying **** about what Russia's reasons are for supporting Pakistan (even if they are genuine, leave alone the fanciful theory that you espoused). They are supporting a terrorist state and one that is our sworn enemy, committed to the destruction of India, and that is all that matters.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Avarachan » 19 Apr 2018 06:30

Bart S wrote:
Avarachan wrote:
By the way, for those who wonder about the Russian strategy towards Pakistan, it is aimed at the U.S. There are analysts (Catherine Austin Fitts, etc.) who say that the U.S. stock market is propped up by the money laundering associated with drug trafficking (from Afghanistan/Pakistan/etc.). If that flow of money stops, the U.S. economy will crash.
https://ratical.org/co-globalize/narcoDollars.html
https://home.solari.com/resume/

The same Pakistani drug-trafficking networks which collaborate with the U.S. are also active in India. As is well known, illegal drugs are ravaging Punjab. If this flow could be reduced, it would be good for India.


Why should anybody in India give a flying **** about what Russia's reasons are for supporting Pakistan (even if they are genuine, leave alone the fanciful theory that you espoused). They are supporting a terrorist state and one that is our sworn enemy, committed to the destruction of India, and that is all that matters.


International politics is not a zero-sum game. If drug trafficking from Pakistan/Afghanistan were reduced, that would be good for both India and Russia. The fact that it would also be good for Pakistan is not a reason to oppose it.

In addition, if you think money laundering doesn't play a huge role in equity markets, I respectfully recommend that you study the issue further. Cheers.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 19 Apr 2018 07:16

India joins UK in slamming Russia for attack on ex-spy.

India agreed to a condemnation of the Russian nerve agent attack in Salisbury in a joint statement with the UK, in a sign that New Delhi isn’t convinced by Russia’s protestations of innocence and is possibly signalling its own annoyance over Moscow’s praise of Pakistan’s anti-terror efforts.

PM Narendra Modi and Theresa May released a joint statement after their talks on Wednesday, where they said, “In the wake of the appalling nerve agent attack in Salisbury, the UK and India have reiterated their shared interest in strengthening the disarmament and non-proliferation regimes against the spread and use of chemical weapons.” Though Russia was not named in the statement, the indication was clear enough in the reference to the Salisbury incident.

The statement emphasised “need for urgent investigations and underline that the conduct of all investigations of any use of chemical weapons must be strictly in accordance with the provisions of the (chemical weapons) Convention.”

India had abstained in a vote in the UN on a proposal moved by Russia seeking a joint probe into the poisoning of ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia. If Russia had read India’s abstention as a sign of support, it would have to rethink after the joint statement.

In recent months, Russia has moved from its pro-India stance to build new bridges with Pakistan even as it buried its suspicions of China. The remarks of the Russian ambassador in India Nikolay Kudashev’s that Pakistan has taken strong measures to counter terror financing could not have gone down well with the Indian government.

On terrorism, the two sides reaffirmed a decision deny space to radical groups. “The leaders agreed to strengthen cooperation to take decisive and concerted actions against globally-proscribed terrorists and terror entities to protect their citizens, including Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, Haqqani Network, Al Qaeda, ISIS (Da’esh) and their affiliates, as well as tackling the online radicalisation...” Technology and innovation, trade and investment and the future of work and jobs formed the greater part of the agreements between the two countries.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby RoyG » 19 Apr 2018 07:42

Avarachan wrote:By the way, for those talking about the high cost of Russian spare-parts (a mark-up of 600-800%), it's common for the mark-up from European companies to the U.S. government to be similar.

The solution to this issue is for the Indian military-industrial complex to indigenize, as Saurav Jha says ... It is not financially possible to build a large, top-tier military with a significant percentage of imported weapons.


You hit the nail on the head. I think that the Russian's need us more than we need them. We are on track to building a full fledged MIC and we are a nuclear weapon power. Currently, Pakistan as a state is deteriorating and India naturally is adopting more coercive measures to help it along. We'll gravitate toward any partner that helps us and in this case it is the Western alliance. It is going to take a very careful balancing act.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 19 Apr 2018 09:21

I think Russian now fear that French have agreed to help India in Nuke Sub thus making Moscow lose major leverage to exploit $india.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2018 10:25

Prem wrote:I think Russian now fear that French have agreed to help India in Nuke Sub thus making Moscow lose major leverage to exploit $india.


In theory yes but practically any Western country including the french has not given any thing substantial in transfer of technology to India , No single JV has come up to any success , Snecma help in kaveri is a work in progress for a long time , with US the situation is more worse. Yes there will be lot of noise but West wont share any technology with India as has been their policy for decades.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 19 Apr 2018 11:21

arun wrote:
sunnyP wrote:It’s remarkable that Russia's Ambassador to India can, on Indian soil, praise Pakistan in such a way.

………..{Rest Snipped}………..

https://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news ... hnhXM.html


Simply put Russia in an effort of keeping alive its Soviet superpower delusions of grandeur in the face of a real and substantial diminution in National Power has resigned itself to playing Tonto to the Peoples Republic of China’s Lone Ranger in the East including in our bailiwick and in the former the former Soviet stamping grounds in the Central Asian Republic’s aka Stans, in return for being able to temporarily pursue its irredentist delusions of grandeur Power in the West in areas such as Georgia and Ukraine. Hence Russia is and will increasingly kow-tow to the PRC whims and desires by pushing inimical initiatives like BRI/OBOR/CPEC to India besides by aiding and abetting the PRC’s Taller than Himalayas, Deeper than Indian Ocean, Sweeter than Honey, Iron Brother ally the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Our leaders must recognise this diminution in National Power induced Russian realignment of interests with the 2 countries that are most inimical to our National Interest and act to thwart Russia in in its actions in the West. India should not give Russia respite for choosing to playing younger brother to the PRC in our part of the world.

Another version of the same story of Russia playing Tonto to the PRC’s Lone Ranger from a Livemint starting with my quoting the nauseous comment by Russian Ambassador to India Nikolay Kudashev which is a warning that Russia could very act to stymie efforts at FATF to take meaningful action against the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and can also be expected to be very accommodative of that country when they inevitably land up at the IMF for a loan:

“The credibility of this country (Pakistan) after it joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), after it started to take serious measures on the financing of terror, the credibility of Pakistan is growing. There is no reason, no sense to deny its wish to be part of the regional and global effort to fight terror, to search for stability and enhanced economic integration,”


From Live Mint:

Terror crackdown has raised Pakistan’s credibility: Russia


I do hope our Foreign Policy establishment has got a policy to manage the decline of Russia.

Russian decline, just like the PRC’s rise, can be bothersome, albeit at different levels.


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