India-Russia: News & Analysis

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RoyG
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by RoyG »

Cosmo_R wrote:
RoyG wrote:We will have to see what Putin gives us.

There is only so much they can do to keep China in line.

They must be cursing them privately.
Tovarich Putin does not countenance giveaways to Indiiskies. We pay full price and more for his science projects.
At a time when Russia needs a counterbalance to the US and China, this strategy will not suffice.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by NRao »

Rudradev wrote:^^Any surprise? It is those with the opportunity to take a really close, long-term look at our would-be "new friends" who are best placed to decide if the old friends are better.
Could be.

But that assumes that the person/s who claim to "know" the "new friend" also was as intimate with the "old friend". Which I very much doubt - most NRIs experienced the Soviets in India. Very few, if any, lived in Soviet/Russia. And, even if they did, I know a few, they certainly never experienced the way they do in the US.

My experience has been that most NRIs are low risk people and thus not willing to make much change. Unless and until they experience a certain positive result they tend not to favor the "new friend". Forget US/Russia, they are very uncomfortable with sending kids to distant universities or venturing into neighborhoods that they have not even heard of.

Low risk - just cultural.



Having said all that - especially concerning "India" - I am of the opinion that India can and should go it alone. The Venn diagram that Modi has drawn is what I support. Each nation is a "friend" to India for a specific purpose.

Thus I am opposed to things like align with Iran and or Russia. Not sure if one has seen recent reports, Iran is warming up on the China-Pakistan corridor, wants to be a part of it. That is a pro Iran decision and not an anti India decision. That is how nations in current situations behave and India should do it too. Russia exercising with Pakistan is a Russian decision, I do not see that as an anti Indian one. India is bigger than all these little riff-raffs.
Last edited by NRao on 24 Sep 2016 03:32, edited 1 time in total.
RoyG
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by RoyG »

Meanwhile, there will be a thaw in Russia-Japan relations which bodes well for us after Russia returns some occupied islands back to Japan.

They want a tamed China that is hostile the US but not to any of its neighbors.

Japan is sitting on a lot of spent fuel and can become a nuclear weapons power in no time.

If they can do this and extract some resource guarantees from Russia, they may slowly rethink US basing privileges which is what the US may be afraid of.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Shanmukh »

Just to expand on what Rudradev-ji said about the West, I can say that, as someone who has spent considerable time living in both Russia & the West, that in general, Russians are often far more friendly & welcoming as a people than anywhere else in the West - particularly if you speak their language decently. Contempt for Indians is far higher in the West than in Russia - particularly east of the Urals.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Manish_Sharma »

When Human Rights was being given a shape, one of the points was also the genocide of a "culture" a "way of life", which vatican and US fought tooth and nail; and didn't allow it to be a part of Human Rights. Rajiv Malhotra has said in his video.

Russians through Soviet times weakened the hold of christianity on the state, though thanks to pumping of money through west they have become a big lobby in Russia.

But you can see, russians may or may not be giving any special treatment to hindus in russia, but atleast they've never ever criticized or crusaded against Bharatvarsh's internal matters.

While US is crusading, genociding our Vaidik, Yogic, ancient Indic way of life, Guru Shishya institutions, digesting Indic Shastras into christianity actively. They give platform to snakes like John Dayal, Kancha Illaiah to purge, genocide our way of life.

Hence like Pakistan the usa is ever biggest enemy, even bigger than China.

The choice is between getting a dog or krait snake. The anglo-saxons are like krait snakes their only programming is to bite and inject poison, they cannot behave like warm blooded mammals.

So being friends with them is out of question, yes majboori ka naam mahatma gandhi is another thing, but no after christianising the south korea and china now usa's last frontier is Bharatvarsh and its way of life.

They are far more sophisticated and dangerous than porkis.

And yes who better to know it then our NRI's like Rudradev ji, Rajiv Malhotra ji. It is through these Saputs of Bharat that people like me get educated about poisons of US.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 136924.cms

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/n ... 070473.ece
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Hitesh »

Shanmukh wrote:Just to expand on what Rudradev-ji said about the West, I can say that, as someone who has spent considerable time living in both Russia & the West, that in general, Russians are often far more friendly & welcoming as a people than anywhere else in the West - particularly if you speak their language decently. Contempt for Indians is far higher in the West than in Russia - particularly east of the Urals.
Friendly sure but business wise? No way.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by krishna_krishna »

Rdevji, I disagree with your wish list of India - Russia - Iran coalition, on why they may not be realistic. Please see below video by Kanwal S where he says how There are forces in Iran that tend to prefer paki brothers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M5n-1BsG1s
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Rudradev »

krishna_krishna wrote:Rdevji, I disagree with your wish list of India - Russia - Iran coalition, on why they may not be realistic. Please see below video by Kanwal S where he says how There are forces in Iran that tend to prefer paki brothers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M5n-1BsG1s
KKji, I saw the Sibal interview. It is a good one.

That said, even he sees scope for India Iran collaboration on this front, but in his measured manner he cautions there might be Pak sympathetic actors in Iran also. But so what?

Is there any relevant nation that does not have some Pak sympathetic elements in the corridors of power? China and Unkil definitely do. Even Russia may have some who resent the increasing US-India cooperation. Afghans are certainly there who have the biratherly feeling.

Point is, Iran Russia and India HAVE collaborated in the past, against severe odds, to keep the anti-Talib Northern Alliance forces operational for over 6 years. They had only a small foothold in Afghanistan at the time, but were offering stiff resistance to the Talibs backed by China, Pakistan, KSA and tacitly the US until 9/11... and ultimately maintained enough political cohesion to form the post Talib government.

Maybe IRI "alliance" is too strong or loaded a term but there is proof of concept of the 3 powers working together over a long term period to serve common strategic interests at political, diplomatic and covert military levels. Even Kanwal Sibal admits that there could be value in this approach, especially now that Afghanistan is independent and has a role to play of its own. Pro Paki elements must be watched out for in any situation... do we lack them in India, even in frighteningly influential circles under UPA2?
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by partha »

Rudradev wrote:
partha wrote: Things like this are not forever. They should change according to the need of the hour and interests. Does Russia also consider India as the "closest strategic ally" forever? They are quite unlikely to interfere in case of an India-China war. I am sure policy makers in Delhi over the years have analyzed such scenarios before expanding relations with US.
Partha ji,

Consider the Russia-China border. It is vast. Many sections of it have been contested by China in the past. In 1969, the Chinese staged an attack on Zhenbao island, a USSR outpost in the Ussuri river, killing dozens of Soviet troops. Following this, the Russians had to waste a lot of military resources stationing multiple divisions on the very lengthy Russia-China border, which definitely took away from what they could spare to confront their primary enemy in the cold war, the USA.
Rudradevji,

Thanks for the detailed response. All I am saying is India should not put all eggs in one basket and that there are no permanent allies. Indian interests should all that matter. Why should India assure Putin, as the OP said, that Russia "was, is and will remain" "closest strategic ally"? Why can't Putin assure India the same amid concerns regarding their military drills with a terrorist state like Pakistan? Why should it always be India that should be sensitive to interests of other nations? This view is holding us back. When Modi decided to play the Balochistan card, 'experts' cautioned Iran would get pissed off but did Iran think about India's concerns when they handed over Kulbhushan Yadav to Pakistan? Similarly, we should not be overly sensitive to Russia while we deepen ties with US. No need to assure Putin about the logistics agreement.

I am not convinced Russia will intervene in our favor in case of a war. At best they will remain neutral. Even when Russia (Soviet) was much stronger than China, it remained neutral during 1962 India China war. Even then there were major differences between Soviet and China regarding their border. So there is no guarantee that Russia will side with India now when it is much weaker than in 1962. My guess is Russia may choose not to piss off China.

When Soviet refused help, Nehru sought help of US and got it -

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/the- ... 121204.htm
On October 25, 1962, when war with the United States was potentially imminent, the Soviet newspaper Pravda published a front-page article that put the entire blame for the 1962 war with China on India.

The article called the McMahon line, which New Delhi accepted, 'notorious', 'the result of British imperialism', and legally invalid.

Pravda also accused India of being incited by imperialists and being the main ringleaders of the conflict. The Soviet Union's hostile attitude contrasted with President Kennedy's generous help to India in its hour of need. This made a deep impression on the Indians.
India should look after its interests just like how Russia did and does. If that means deeper relations with US then so be it.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Austin »

No joint military exercise with Pakistan in PoK, Russia clarifies

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/ ... s-3047234/

In its statement, the Russian Embassy said that “the Russia-Pakistan anti-terror exercise is not being held and will not be held in any point of so-called ‘Azad Kashmir’ (Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) or in any other sensitive or problematic areas like Gilgit and Baltistan. The only venue of the exercise is Cherat.” This is in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, 34 miles south-east from Peshawar.


In a statement tweeted by MEA spokesperson Vikas Swarup on Tuesday, Russia had strongly condemned the terrorist attack on the Indian military unit. The Russian message said that “it is alarming, and according to New Delhi, the attack on military unit near the town of Uri was committed from the territory of Pakistan.”
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Austin »

India and Russia held meet over current global challenges

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... _campaign=
NEW DELHI: Top think-tanks of India and Russia for the first time ever held brainstorming sessions in Moscow this week to discuss current global challenges including threats from growing extremism and radicalization and explored measures to strengthen bilateral strategic partnership.

The think-tanks Summit that also discussed key transport corridors that would link India and Russia saw participation from top Russian officials including Sergei Glazyev, Advisor to President Vladimir Putin and Igor Morgulov, Deputy Foreign Minister besides hosts of top academicians and researchers.

The other key issues on the agenda included counter-terrorism, situation in Afghanistan and way forward, cooperation in Central Asia and Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). The role of Russia in Asia amid rise and ambitions of China was another topic that was on the agenda of the dialogue.

The Indian participants included Nalin Surie, Director General of Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA) and former Ambassador to China & UK, Jayant Prasad, Direcor General of Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses and former envoy to Afghanistan and Nepal besides officials of Ministry of External Affairs, diplomats and senior academicians and researcher from a slew of think tanks in Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore.

The meet was jointly organized by MEA, ICWA and MGIMO, which is the Moscow State Institute for International Relations. The objective is to institutionalize such meets on an annual basis.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by panduranghari »

Sergei Glazyev is the person who brought about the bilateral currency exchange between Russia and China. He wrote a paper on 'de-Dollarisation of Russian economy'. As usual it was met with skepticism by IMF. As Russia has a permanent representative on IMF, they certainly wield a lot of clout. And the way with which Russia is promoting bilateral currency deals, probably even with India, I think they are in this for the long haul. There is a lot to learn from the Russians.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Austin »

panduranghari wrote:Sergei Glazyev is the person who brought about the bilateral currency exchange between Russia and China. He wrote a paper on 'de-Dollarisation of Russian economy'. As usual it was met with skepticism by IMF. As Russia has a permanent representative on IMF, they certainly wield a lot of clout. And the way with which Russia is promoting bilateral currency deals, probably even with India, I think they are in this for the long haul. There is a lot to learn from the Russians.
Yes you are right I have followed Glazyev for sometime now , He is part of Stolypin Club that has proposed Economic Reforms and is diametrically opposed to liberal Kudrin plans that are more West/IMF oriented.

You can read more about it here http://www.russia-direct.org/analysis/l ... mic-future

BTW do you think a Rupee-Ruble trade is possible because unlike SU days where Ruble was managed , today Ruble is full capital account convertible , free floating currency and the rate of Rouble is no more controlled by Central Bank but by market forces ....Ruble has more volatility compared to Rupee which is controlled by RBI ( vis USD/Euro )
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by panduranghari »

Rupee- Rouble free convertibility is inevitable. Using the middleman dollar is on a wane everywhere. If the situation in the eurodollar market is an indicator, then the convertibility will be forced upon. As Indian demand for oil is high and also price inelastic, there is no doubt Russia would like to sell the oil to a buyer who is good at paying on time. Do you think Rouble is volatile or is dollar crushing all other competition making the rouble look volatile? I am not sure about this.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by abhijitm »

Russia getting closer with pakistan is good. Finally this will lift the 70 years old western voodoo of creation of pakistan and the great game that was played.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Austin »

panduranghari wrote:Rupee- Rouble free convertibility is inevitable. Using the middleman dollar is on a wane everywhere. If the situation in the eurodollar market is an indicator, then the convertibility will be forced upon. As Indian demand for oil is high and also price inelastic, there is no doubt Russia would like to sell the oil to a buyer who is good at paying on time. Do you think Rouble is volatile or is dollar crushing all other competition making the rouble look volatile? I am not sure about this.
The Central Bank of both countries will have to work out a mechanics where they can trade in their national currency without having to resort to pegging it to USD or Euro. Ruble has been relatively stable wrt to Renminbi , probably has been the case with Rupeee

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/USDRUB:CUR

Having said that lets say if Russia sells its Energy product to India in Rupee , How can they use the Rupee to do any thing other then buy stuff from India , Can they use Rupee for say any international trade exchange ? Without Rupee having say a full capital convertibility status or SDR status like Renminbi ?

Renminbi is a better prospect after its inclusion in SDR basket this october , It will get reserve currency status and consequently a trading currency , also Chinese trading base provides that confort.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by panduranghari »

Austin wrote: Having said that lets say if Russia sells its Energy product to India in Rupee , How can they use the Rupee to do any thing other then buy stuff from India , Can they use Rupee for say any international trade exchange ? Without Rupee having say a full capital convertibility status or SDR status like Renminbi ?

Renminbi is a better prospect after its inclusion in SDR basket this october , It will get reserve currency status and consequently a trading currency , also Chinese trading base provides that confort.
This is how we have been accustomed to look at currency. We wonder what will Russia do with accumulating rupee reserves? At the same time we question what exactly full convertibility means or in what way does SDR status contribute to the strength of the currency?

We have heard about Pavlov and his experiments with his dogs. Our response to the bell is quite Pavlovian. I mean no disrespect. I am just stating how we have been conditioned to think in a particular way.

Trade surpluses and trade deficits are ubiquitous in the $ based international monetary system ($IMFS). Its a vestige of Bretton Woods and Petrodollar system.

In my opinion, we are moving away from trade imbalances to balanced trade. We cannot buy until we pay for it. Countries like China believe that they can keep accumulating surpluses. Countries like US believe that they can can run perpetual deficits by just raising the debt ceiling every year.

When the transition happens, we will move to settlement. Not unlike it happens at individual level. We are not going back to barter as Willem Middlekoop keeps saying or to SDR based gold standard as Jim Rickards does.

All settlement will happen using the only 'GIffen Good' that central bank trust. Russia is well positioned for this too.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Amoghvarsha »

Al Bakis are literally partying that they have formed a Chi Pak Rus axis againist India.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by krishna_krishna »

Rdevji,

No ji for for me. Few rumblings :

1) When I mentioned Iran has Islamaic tilt I say that because it is "Ismalic Republic" which is no way equivalent to paki pasand lobby you have everywhere including Desh.It is like love for biraders on steroids if you will. Iran -Russia and India came together for following reasons because it was in their interests at their time :

Iran: Relations with massa deteriorated, plus sanctions and its rival namely Saudi A in coalition with Massa were pumping wahabi sunni jihad in Astan which not stopped would threaten Shia Iran in next phase

Russia : Didn't want Amrika to succeed and give them taste of their medicine after their collapse (also great game didn't want amrika to have base in this region to dominate)

India : The fighters from Astan starded ingress to Kshmir and if not stop would have created havoc, given Pakistan much needed strategic depth to unleash hell on desh plus massa were also trying to break india (Still does even though we are so called allies)

Now fast forward , as you say situation is fluid. We have a new player in equation namely China

Everyone is re-orienting themselves.

Iran: just out of sanction wants money and technology to catch up for the years they lost. Remember they played very clever game wrt Chabahar, they played if you don't pay so and so we will offe the port to Cheen. Hence desh had to donate practically rail tracks to overhall entire Iranian rail network.And I believe they had offered another port wrt Gwadar to cheen as well. Now they announced also want to be part of CEPEC .

China : They want to bypass desh to secure their sea lanes of transportation and control world trade for anything that goes from east to west. so they become the net New Britain of the world. Pakistan is just a piece to keep us in check. When they also have US market to take care of via exports hence they will not go for full khujli to massa till they find other markets

Russia: Since this thread is related to this country. Russ wants a multipolar world where they can maintain their power status at the same time making sure American decline happens rapidly at the same time they at any given point of time are second to none in any of the new multipolar players. Remember Putin personally had said relationship with china is proved where as with India is not, this guy remembers his friends and who are not friends. It is shameful that MMS during eukraine didn't do anything against Russian sanctions to me if we call each other strategic allies we should not have gone against Russia and supported it against the sanctions atleast. That is the incident I believe Russia decided enough it enough. Loosing business was one thing but this incident was last nail. They still would do business but forget about past friendship, they used us but remember we got things in return no one would lease you nuclear submarine for any amount of money try that to massa. They tried to get us in SCO and BRICS but what China wanted us was to be was Britain of America which is why if anti US coalition has to succeed with their Chinese allies , India has to join them on their (Chinese) terms or else we can go to whatever la la land. The other thing to see is China thinks they have reached a stage where they are able to take on Massa and hence flexing muscle (both diplomatically see the treatment to the massa presidents arrival and military read SCS and other areas)

Pakis: They want a new sugar daddy to take care of their needs to replace massa, and since a whore always goes to strongest and mightiest. They believe sun is setting for massa hence we need new master for which we will do the dirty bidding. Continue the goal of destroying India by thousand cuts (they believe they are getting close as India will not have will forever) and forcing an Islamic world upon other countries to the extend possible via threats, kidnapping, killing etc.

So Russia - China - Pakistan definitely a possibility but what throws monkey wrench is Free anad stable Afghanistan. If India is able to support it , it contains napakis and remove the leech on its back and keeps it busy. Add Vietnam and we can have equal love and hate relationship. Iran also kept in check.

India : Ghanta (Only god knows what we aim for) but I believe what we should focus is have delicate balance with both the blocks (US- SA- Aus- Japan) and ( Russ - China - Iran) block till we are strong , rather than open gungadeen approach to receding super pow that is not giving anything in return substantial. Russ have clear history of strongly backing its friends irrespective of what it means and massa have history of ditching (Throwing under the bus) history. At the same time emerge as a third block with France , Japan , Vietnam, Afghanistan , South Africa and Brazil. We will emerge stronger. IF we do not exercise military whenever we are hit from now on will doom break up or another British India II for whoever emerges the sole world power.

The views are personal take it FWIW.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by shashankk »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 503220.cms

"The challenge for us is to keep the India-Russia relationship stable in a loosening great power universe," a source said. Russia remains India's top defence supplier, but Indian officials confirmed they have asked Moscow to make a choice between Pakistan and India. It's a red line that Moscow has breached and things may never be the same again.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Paul »

One silver lining outcome of this exercise is Russians should forget about seeing Armata in Indian army colors. Even the pro Russian armored corp will be circumspect in pushing for Armata after this slight.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Paul »

Take TOI with bucket of salt.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by arun »

Prem wrote:
rajithn wrote:The exercise is not in PoK. It is in Cherat. That is west of I-SLUM-abad.

Rus Embassy, India
‏@RusEmbIndia
The Russia-Pakistan antiterror exercise is not being held and will not be held in any point of so-called “Azad Kashmir” @ANI_news @PTI_News

Rus Embassy, India ‏@RusEmbIndia 1h1 hour ago
All reports alleging the drills taking place at the High Altitude Military School in Rattu are erroneous and mischievous @ndtv @ians_india

Russian Ministry of Defense website clearly states that exercise between Russia and the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan will be held at Rattu in the Gilgit-Baltistan portion of Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.

Russian Embassy in India and their bosses at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Moscow should note that the sources of “Mischievous” reports of the Drzubha 2016 being held in Occupied Indian Territory at Rattu is the Russian Defense Ministry in Moscow:

There has been no retraction of this report by the Russian MOD at the time of my posting:
23.09.2016 (15:44)

Russian-Pakistani tactic exercise Friendship-2016

Friendship-2016, Russian-Pakistani tactic exercise, is held in the territory of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in at the bases of Rattu, the military mountain training school, and a training center of the special units in Cherat on September 24 – October 10.

This is the first exercise held by the Russian Armed Forces jointly with the Armed Forces of the Republic of Pakistan. More than 200 military servicemen from both parties are involved in the exercise.

About 70 military servicemen of the Southern MD mountain motorized rifle brigade, which is located in Karachay-Cherkessia, are taking part in the exercise.

The servicemen will share their experience and improve cooperation while performing assigned tasks in mountains, including ones aimed at eliminating illegal armed groups.

The joint exercise is to strengthen and develop military cooperation of Russia and Pakistan.
From Russian Ministry of Defense here:

Russian-Pakistani tactic exercise Friendship-2016
Last edited by arun on 25 Sep 2016 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by shravanp »

"The challenge for us is to keep the India-Russia relationship stable in a loosening great power universe," a source said. Russia remains India's top defence supplier, but Indian officials confirmed they have asked Moscow to make a choice between Pakistan and India. It's a red line that Moscow has breached and things may never be the same again.
TOIlet's spin.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by shashankk »

Being biggest buyer of Russian weapons and sales worth billions in pipeline India should treat this as breach of lakshman rekha by Russians.
Maybe we should do a military exercise with Ukrain near Donbass then wait for Russians reaction.
Also we should ask them to Offer Junk PAKFA to Pakistanis .
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by arun »

Russia methinks has accepted that it is no longer the power it used to be and has made the choice that it will cede influence in the East to the Peoples Republic of China as evidenced by PRC being permitted to make inroads into the former Soviet controlled areas of Central Asia like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan etc. and instead seek to salvage their diminished national power in the West in areas such as Georgia and Ukraine.

Indian foreign and defense policy makers need to re-valuate relationship with Russia in the light of this Russian acceptance of PRC hegemony in the East and “pivot” to the West.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Saurav Jha had tweeted sometime back about Bharat-Roos developing 200 systems currently with DRDO, "how many with usa?" he had quipped rightly.

We are enmeshed at many layers with Russia, I'm sure china would've preferred Bharat not getting S-400, Akula etc. but Russia is having its unique relation with us.

Also as NaMo govt. has shown they're not much into protesting and sanctioning nations, even after Scorpene betrayel french got the Rafale order.

So its ok, russia is pained at lemoa and they show it by waltzing with porki whore. Let them suffer her porki smell just to jeer at us.

Its not that we can say "keep your S-400, we'll get THAAD from usa, keep your yasen we'll get seawolf instead..."
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Bheeshma »

India should focus on indigenous SSN and BMD. Things have gone quiet on the BMD front.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by svinayak »

x posted from the TSP thread
svinayak wrote:
chetak wrote:Is Sir Nicholas Carter coming out of the closet??

Another Lawrence of arabia type hoping to slither his way into some paki nooks and crannies??
British had prevented Pak from having relations with Soviet Russia for 70 years as part of the great Game and geo politics during the cold war.

British had made sure that Pak military had no relations to Russia military and had a foe relations.


The making up of the Pak defence with Russia military is the beginning of a new era.
Anant
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Anant »

Notwithstanding the rabid anti-Americanism that pervades this room, it ain't 1971. Lots of Indian Americans like me call America home and still love India. Moreover, many of us, myself included, have succeeded in the U.S. This room takes a myopic and superficial look at how Americans and Indians interact that thankfully isn't shared by either government. I know since I've worked with both the U.S. Government and Indian Government. We will make sure that the U.S. and India grow stronger together. PM Modi's office shares this vision. So keep your wishful thoughts of India being a Russian client state just that; a pipedream. There are no Indian Russians driving closer ties between India and Russia. There are plenty of us in the U.S. I know this pains many of you but you'll come to accept it. As I said, thankfully BRF isn't the Indian government and it is far more pragmatic and nuanced than this forum. Also, for those of you who think that the days of the U.S. no longer being a superpower are seriously deluded.
Amoghvarsha
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Amoghvarsha »

arun wrote:Russia methinks has accepted that it is no longer the power it used to be and has made the choice that it will cede influence in the East to the Peoples Republic of China as evidenced by PRC being permitted to make inroads into the former Soviet controlled areas of Central Asia like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan etc. and instead seek to salvage their diminished national power in the West in areas such as Georgia and Ukraine.

Indian foreign and defense policy makers need to re-valuate relationship with Russia in the light of this Russian acceptance of PRC hegemony in the East and “pivot” to the West.

Russia isnt in the business of ceding influence in long term.They are very good at waiting and building up then retaking their position.The temporary slide of oil prices and aestern sanctions has forced it to hold hands with China but as soon as the Russians get back into a strong position they will again take steps back from China.
panduranghari
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by panduranghari »

Anant wrote:Notwithstanding the rabid anti-Americanism that pervades this room, it ain't 1971.
Its not rabid anti americanism. Its putting indian interests ahead of others. By your own admission you are an american success story. It does make your lens tinted with american perspective. Speaking for myself, I care not if UQ goes to the dogs as long as Indian interests are preserved.See we come from different ends of a spectrum.
schinnas
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by schinnas »

Amoghvarsha wrote:
arun wrote:Russia methinks has accepted that it is no longer the power it used to be and has made the choice that it will cede influence in the East to the Peoples Republic of China as evidenced by PRC being permitted to make inroads into the former Soviet controlled areas of Central Asia like Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan etc. and instead seek to salvage their diminished national power in the West in areas such as Georgia and Ukraine.

Indian foreign and defense policy makers need to re-valuate relationship with Russia in the light of this Russian acceptance of PRC hegemony in the East and “pivot” to the West.
Russia isnt in the business of ceding influence in long term.They are very good at waiting and building up then retaking their position.The temporary slide of oil prices and aestern sanctions has forced it to hold hands with China but as soon as the Russians get back into a strong position they will again take steps back from China.
Russia is a spent force. With a declining population and brain drain, the cannot get back anywhere close to their former glory. The USSR militar industry complex was very large and had lot of momentum going for it even after collapse of the union. Additionally Russia is gifted with huge amount of natural resources and oil but its industrialization potential is limited due to population which makes labor very expensive. As a result, export of raw materials and oil along with defence exports would be the mainstay of Russian economy. Putin seems to be over extending his power and is not positioning Russia for long term success.

With all the advances made in electric vehicles, it is a matter of time before oil's utility reduces. There are no long term things going for Russia. Russia would be ill advised to antagonize India, which considered Russia its staunch ally. Just like India did not mind Russia dancing with China, we dont expect Russia to mind India dancing with US as both nations have their compulsions. However, conducting exercises with Pakistan just a week after Uri attack is a red line that Russia should not have crossed. This is not going to be taken lightly by Modi and co. Putin miscalculated here and will pay a price for it. India does not like friends stabbing her in the back.
Last edited by schinnas on 26 Sep 2016 01:26, edited 1 time in total.
krishna_krishna
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by krishna_krishna »

Russia a spent force (Wow , Says who ??). If that is the case then amrika with all its super powa status should have won Seeyriia, eucraine etc.
They have muscle that massa is also not willing to take on openly. Think were they were in late 90's , a spend force literally , to now where they are. The oil crisis is definetly hitting them but not way close to 90's so take your view with a big bag of salt.

Regarding gentleman claiming that he is an Amriki dream success story, I say I am happy for you brother may you get more success.And claiming anti massa rabid view that people have are because some people remember and go by actions and not by wet dreams. But just comparing people you work with state D. who is rabid anti indian. From AC crusade in bay of Bengal in 71's to funding hurri rats, to supporting LTTE against india in the past, To Devyani K . and funding xtian conversion foundations to religious freedom recently (Till last month) does that show that they have good designs and or have strategic interested aligned. Have they given us a nulear sub or even will consider helping us on strategic new clear area ?

I have lived in massa land and others too but I consider myself bharatiya first and Interest of my desh trumps everything. So you are free to work with whatever you want to work towards, but claiming being a massa vassal is in indias interest is bull crap.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Bhurishravas »

Imho Indian diplomacy has failed to support Russia where it easily could have. For example, we did not raise much sound over the shooting down of the Russian plane by Turks. Nor on Ukraine issue.
While the change/readjustment in Indian foreign policy is welcome, not making sounds in support of Russia where we can/could is foolish and reminiscent of small power mentality.
Cosmo_R
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Cosmo_R »

Bhurishravas wrote:Imho Indian diplomacy has failed to support Russia where it easily could have. For example, we did not raise much sound over the shooting down of the Russian plane by Turks. Nor on Ukraine issue.
While the change/readjustment in Indian foreign policy is welcome, not making sounds in support of Russia where we can/could is foolish and reminiscent of small power mentality.
Not sure what you are saying. We did not condemn the Crimea invasion, we did not blame the Russians (or their proxies) for shooting down the Malaysian airliner. Are you suggesting that we should have supported them on both counts?

The shoot down in Syria was for the Russians and Turks to figure out.
Cosmo_R
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Cosmo_R »

The Paki Russian exercise is fine. Why are so we hot and bothered about it? Play the game, next time they want to train with us, ask them to come to Arunachal Pradesh. Then see whether they balk when the PRC convulses
JwalaMukhi
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by JwalaMukhi »

As Subramanian swamy says Russians are/were never understood by Indians. That is correct and the delusion that India knows about Russians will continue.
Yuri Bezmenov's videos are some data points. The Russians cultivated the Indians with extraordinary egos and loose morals to achieve their aims. The impact of how Russians have dealt with India is still felt. The Marxists and other systems that are entrenched inside India are directly as a result of the support during soviet regime. Nothing is there to say, that such cultivated system has broken down or not active.
What Russians do is still going to have lot of support inside India without critical examination. The question is Does napakis who had 3.5 fathers actually have now complete 4 (four) fathers, with Russians filling up the shortfall of 0.5?

Blind belief anywhere is going to cost. Even gods will not help one who does not help himself/herself.

habal
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by habal »

India signed lesmoa with sworn enemy of russia. In turn russia pays back compliment.
Viv S
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Post by Viv S »

habal wrote:India signed lesmoa with sworn enemy of russia. In turn russia pays back compliment.
Okay. And what Indian provocation to Russia, led to this 'payback'?



Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation Between the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation - 2001 (original text)
Article 8

The contracting parties shall not enter into any alliance or be a party to any bloc nor shall they embark on any such action, including the conclusion of such treaty with a third country which compromises the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of the other contracting party. Neither side of the contracting parties shall allow its territory to be used by a third country to jeopardize the national sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of the other contracting party.

Neither side of the contracting parties shall allow the setting up of organizations or gangs on its own soil which shall impair the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of the other contrasting party and their activities should be prohibited.


Article 9

When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats.
Article 25

The term of validity of the present treaty is twenty years. If neither side of the contracting parties notify the other in writing of its desire to terminate the treaty one year before the treaty expires, the treaty shall automatically be extended for another five years and shall thereafter be continued in force in accordance with this provision.


Done in Moscow on July 16, 2001 in two copies, each in the Chinese and Russian languages, both texts being equally authentic.

Representative of the People's Representative of the Republic of China........................... Russian Federation

Jiang Zemin..................................................................................................... Vladimir Putin
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