India-Russia: News & Analysis

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 14 Dec 2011 10:14

If Russia and US do not quarrel over anything and everything and drain each other, the biggest loser is Tallel mountain. Hence Beijing puppet Stalinist propagandist ex-babu is now begging Russians not to 'indulge' in democracy and re-elect Putin-pot and keep fighting unkil to the last russian. Tallel needs despots, Pu-tin-pots, loonies like Kim of NK, Kiya-nahin type fanatic barbaric terrorists and so on to carry on its policy of nuisance management. It cannot take on Unkil by itself because the Chief Purchasing officer of Walmart can wreck its economy if they stop buying stuffed toys and plastic crap.

Look like it is on losing side. Gadafi gone, Assad one foot in door/grave, Myanmar opening up and now tinpot in trouble.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Dec 2011 07:47

Ambani pullout is cold water on PM Russia trip - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/amban ... ip/888477/

Are Mukesh's links with the CFR a factor in his staying away from Putin-land?

Putin talks about McCain -

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Dec 2011 15:29

India and Russia to discuss comprehensive economic pact

India and Russia will add another facet to their bilateral relationship by holding talks on a Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA), an omnibus free trade agreement, during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's confabulations with the top Russian leadership here on Friday.

India and Russia have very close ties in defence, science & technology, nuclear and space sectors but have been trying to plug the gap of low bilateral trade for a number of years with modest success. “We are ultimately looking at a common Eurasian market,” said government sources while referring to Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's vision of having a customs union with several republics of the former Soviet Union.

“With Russia, most of the issues relating to CEPA have been sorted out. But we have to now see how this fits in with the Russia plan of customs union.”

For India, tailoring the CEPA to fit in with Russia's customs union with Kazakhstan, by far the largest Central Asian country, and Byelorussia will help enlarge the market for Indian entrepreneurs.

The sources said the summit meeting between Dr. Singh and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will address the deadlock in talks on Kudankulam 3 and 4 civil nuclear reactors by declaring their broad concurrence to all the terms and conditions but a signing ceremony is not on the cards. A joint statement to be issued after the summit meeting is slated to take the civil nuclear partnership between the two countries a step forward. On the Russian offer to host an Indian enrichment and reprocessing (ENR) plant on its soil and offer shares to New Delhi does not seem to have found favour as yet with South Block. In a move that began in the G-8, the Nuclear Suppliers Group has tightened rules for transfer of ENR equipment and technology. India terms this unfair because the exemption given by NSG, it says, was for the full fuel cycle of which ENR is a part. Caught between the need to honour their commitment to India and the need to comply with the decision taken by the civil nuclear cartel, Moscow sought to find a middle path by suggesting that the plant be set up in Russia. “We are still talking. We haven't reached closure. Russia has international obligations to which they would be sensitive. We already have the full fuel cycle [and are in no hurry]. So let us see how to cooperate,'' said the government sources.

The sources said one of India's major defence acquisition in terms of technology and ability to strike fear in the adversary – the Nerpa nuclear-powered submarine – will be leased by the end of next month. Unlike a diesel submarine, the nuclear powered version does not have to intermittently come up for air to recharge its batteries, and can thus lurk beneath the waves for indefinite periods giving no clue about its location.

Hydrocarbons will be another focus area where India has been trying to close several exploration deals without much success. After demurring for years when the offer was made on a platter, India has now evinced interest in the blocks off Yamal Peninsula. It is also keen on a stake in Sakhalin-III and the Trebs and Titov gas fields.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Dec 2011 15:31

Russia-India scientific, technology centre opened

A Russia-India scientific and technological centre was opened here on Thursday to promote industrial uses for breakthrough technologies developed in both the countries.

The centre was inaugurated to coincide with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Russia for an annual bilateral summit on Thursday. It is designed to provide a missing link to the wide-ranging scientific collaboration between the two nations – a mechanism for commercialisation of technologies developed under the 20-year-long Indo-Russian Integrated Long-Term Programme (ILTP).

“The new centre is of particular importance to both countries in their efforts to encourage innovation and modernisation,” said India's Ambassador to Russia Ajai Malhotra.

A similar centre would be opened in New Delhi early next year. It already has a website http://ristc.com/. Both units would work in close coordination.

“Our job will be to put together the technology people in Russia with industry people in India and vice versa. It will be a two-way road,” said G. Sundararajan, head of the centre.

Dr. Sundararajan heads the International Advanced Research Centre for Powder Metallurgy and the New Materials in Hyderabad, one of the most successful projects of India-Russia cooperation.

The Moscow and New Delhi centres would rely on soft government loans and help in land acquisition to support innovative technological projects in the two countries.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Dec 2011 15:46

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/12/16/a-ro ... dium=email

True or false? There are no doubts though that the def.relationship is a very close one,a "priviliged" one if one looks at the type of items that Russia is providing India with,but also has nigggling problems in it,supply and after-sales service,that are making India look elsewhere for some of its key weapon systems.It is upto both sides to sort out such issues when they exist to mutual satisfaction.

ocky Russia-India Defense Union
December 16, 2011
By Richard WeitzAbout the author
Richard Weitz

India replacing China as the world’s largest arms importer should leave plenty of scope for Russian manufacturers. But the two sides don’t always see eye to eye.
Related Features

India, Russia Talk Defence Ties
Why China Snubs Russia Arms
How China’s Jets Threaten Russia
Behind India’s US Fighter Snub
India Beefs Up for Great Game

With India replacing China as the world’s leading arms importer, Russian defense companies are increasingly counting on additional weapons sales to India to compensate for the precipitous decline in exports to China.

Until now, Soviet and Russian suppliers have provided about two-thirds of India’s military imports. Yet although Russia should remain India’s largest defense partner for at least the next several years given that the two countries have already signed billions of dollars’ worth of future arms deals, growing competition from Western companies and the increasing sophistication of India’s indigenous defense industry could lead New Delhi to buy fewer Russian weapons.

The Indian government has for years been seeking to increase the capacity of its defense firms to manufacture more sophisticated products on their own. As part of this process, Indian officials have successfully required Russian and other foreign firms to rely less on the sale of complete turn-key systems and instead consent to engage in the joint research, development, and manufacture of new defense technologies and systems. Indian negotiators often require that new contracts stipulate a significant transfer of defense technologies, and they also regularly insist that foreign governments agree to allow Indian firms to have a role in producing (under license), maintaining, and repairing the weapons.

One of the most prominent Russian-era Indian defense deals occurred in 1998, when the two countries established the Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace to co-develop and produce supersonic tactical cruise missiles. The BrahMos missiles incorporate advanced Russian technologies, which Moscow hasn’t made available to China or any other country, but are built in India. In June 2007, Indian ground forces began deploying BrahMos-1 missiles on a Tatra truck chassis. BrahMos Aerospace, meanwhile, is currently testing a naval variant, the BrahMos-2. Air- and submarine-launched versions of the missile are also currently under development.

But the two governments have in recent years reached other important arms deals, and have established a joint venture to research and develop a medium-lift transport aircraft for both their air forces. HAL and Russia’s United Aircraft Cooperation (UAC), a state holding company for Russia’s military and civilian aircraft producers that includes the Sukhoi and MiG corporations, will both invest $300 million in the joint effort to create a plane that can carry 18.5 tons of cargo up to 2,500 kilometers. They aim to manufacture their first all-weather medium transport prototype by 2017. The Russian Air Force intends to buy as many as 100 of the new planes to replace its Il-214. The Indian Air Force, for its part, expects to purchase at least 35 of the new aircraft, which will replace India’s aging fleet of AN-32 planes, which Russia is upgrading under a separate contract worth almost $400 million.

Yet despite such co-operation, the Russian-Indian arms relationship has experienced recurring problems, especially Indian criticism regarding the inferior quality of some imported Russian weapons. The most notorious bilateral defense snafu involved the Russia-Indian deal to renovate the Soviet-era Admiral Gorshkov and transfer it to the Indian Navy. After the fall of the Soviet Union, this former Soviet aircraft carrier, built in 1978, was berthed at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia while Russian officials debated what to do with the ship. The impoverished Russian government didn’t have sufficient funds to repair and upgrade the vessel.

3 page article.ck. link for the full piece.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Dec 2011 17:28

Russia welcomes India’s SCO membership bid

Russia welcomes India’s intention to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and calls on member states to speed up the accession process, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in a joint statement following talks in Moscow on Friday.

“Russia has welcomed India’s intention to join the SCO as a full member,” the statement reads.

India’s accession would “significantly increase the [organization’s] political weight and introduce a new quality and dimension to cooperation within the SCO,” it said.

The SCO comprises China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. Iran, India, Mongolia, as well as India’s long-time rival Pakistan hold observer status.

Pakistan is also seeking full membership in the organization. During an SCO summit in the Kazakh capital of Astana in July, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari expressed hope that Pakistan’s membership application “will be put on a fast track.”

In his opening remarks at Friday talks in the Kremlin, Medvedev described Russian-Indian relations as a “time-tested privileged strategic cooperation.”

Friday marked the third talks between Medvedev and Singh this year. They also met during a BRICS summit in China in April and the G20 summit in France’s Cannes early last month.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Dec 2011 22:18

Russia to boost LNG supplies to India in 2016 – Medvedev

Russia will significantly boost supplies of liquefied natural gas (LNG) to India in 2016, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday.

"Gazprom has signed the memoranda covering major supplies of LNG to India with several Indian companies," Medvedev told Russian and Indian businessmen during the meeting.

Alexei Miller, CEO of Russian gas giant Gazprom, said in November that the company would take India's growing demand for LNG into account in its plans to build export facilities under the Eastern Gas Program. India's gas consumption is projected to increase 70 percent by 2020.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said during the meeting that Indian companies were interested in oil and gas projects in Russia. India's ONGC oil and gas company is in talks with Russia's largest independent gas producer Novatek to participate in the Yamal LNG project.

The project, being implemented by Novatek and France's Total, will produce liquefied natural gas on the Yamal Peninsula in the Russian Arctic at an estimated cost of $15-20 billion. It will see development of the giant Yuzhno-Tambeiskoye gas condensate field and the construction of an LNG plant. Novatek also plans to build a sea port in the town of Sabetta in Yamal and will construct an ice-class tanker fleet.

ONGC also has 20 percent interest in the Sakhalin-1 project, whose reserves are estimated at about 307 million tons of oil (2.3 billion barrels) and 485 billion cubic meters of gas (17 trillion cubic feet).

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 17 Dec 2011 19:46

Very sad Indeed ! Some one needs to educate the primitive Russians about the virtues of Dharma ! If Bhagavat Gita is termed as 'extremist', what would you call anti-semitic, anti-pagan Bible ?

Bhagavad Gita faces ban in Russia

Bhagavad Gita, one of the holiest Hindu scriptures, is facing a legal ban and the prospect of being branded as “an extremist” literature across Russia. A court in Siberia’s Tomsk city is set to deliver its final verdict on Monday in a case filed by state prosecutors.

The final pronouncement in the case will come two days after Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during his Dec 15-17 official visit for a bilateral summit with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev consolidated bilateral trade and strategic ties and personal friendship.

The case, which has been going on in Tomsk court since June, seeks ban on a Russian translation of “Bhagavad Gita As It Is” written by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).

It also wants the Hindu religious text banned in Russia and declared as a literature spreading “social discord”, its distribution on Russian soil rendered illegal.

In view of the case, Indians settled in Moscow, numbering about 15,000, and followers of the ISKCON religious movement here have appealed to Manmohan Singh and his government to intervene diplomatically to resolve the issue in favour of the scripture, an important part of Indian epic Mahabharata written by sage Ved Vyas.

The ISKCON followers in Russia have also written a letter to the Prime Minister’s Office in New Delhi, calling for immediate intervention, lest the religious freedom of Hindus living here be compromised.

“The case is coming up for a final verdict on Monday in Tomsk court. We want all efforts from the Indian government to protect the religious rights of Hindus in Russia,” Sadhu Priya Das of ISKCON and a devotee of a 40-year-old Krishna temple in central Moscow, told IANS.

The court, which took up the case filed by the state prosecutors, had referred the book to the Tomsk State University for “an expert” examination Oct 25.

But Hindu groups in Russia, particularly followers of ISKCON, say the university was not qualified as it lacked Indologists who study the history and cultures, languages, and literature of the Indian subcontinent.

The Hindus pleaded with the court that the case was inspired by religious bias and intolerance from a “majority religious group in Russia”, and have sought that their rights to practice their religious beliefs be upheld.

The prosecutor’s case also seeks to ban the preachings of Prabhupada and ISKCON’s religious beliefs, claiming these were “extremist” in nature and preached “hatred” of other religious beliefs.

“They have not just tried to get the Bhagavad Gita banned, but also brand our religious beliefs and preachings as extremist,” Das said.

The ISKCON devotees have taken up the matter with the Indian embassy in Moscow too for an early diplomatic intervention before things get worse and the court passes an adverse verdict banning the Bhagavad Gita and Krishna consciousness teachings.

In the Nov 1 letter addressed to Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister Pulok Chatterji, ISKCON’s New Delhi branch Governing Body Commissioner Gopal Krishna Goswami, said the prosecutor’s affidavit claims Lord Krishna “is evil and not conforming to Christian religious view”.

Goswami also urged Manmohan Singh to accord priority to the matter during his Moscow stay and take it up with the Russian authorities.

Indian diplomatic corps officials at the embassy here, who were unwilling to be named, told IANS that they have been following up the case since the time it was brought to their notice earlier this year.

They had also taken up the matter at the appropriate levels in the Russian government to get the case either withdrawn or get the defence to fight the case to obtain a favourable verdict.

Officials at the Indian Prime Minister’s Office, who were part of the Indian delegation accompanying Manmohan Singh, confirmed to IANS the case and the letter they received from ISKCON in this regard.

“This matter is receiving the highest attention and the Indian embassy officials in Moscow have been instructed to follow up the case with the Russian authorities,” they said.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Dec 2011 19:54

If Russia allows Bhagavat Gita to be banned, then Russia is poised to become a completely irrelevant superpower in the next 20 years. It would lose its bestest friend!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Dec 2011 20:16

RajeshAji

My (sic) secular argument.

How would banning BG in Russia should affect Indo-Russia relationship? Indian constipation is secular, Russia is super secular. Are you suggesting that India should stop trading with Russia? Are you brushing religious colors on trade as well? Then how will India become progressive, wealthy?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2011 20:18

Rony wrote:Very sad Indeed ! Some one needs to educate the primitive Russians about the virtues of Dharma ! If Bhagavat Gita is termed as 'extremist', what would you call anti-semitic, anti-pagan Bible ?

I actually think this is a welcome development. Religion and religious books need to be under the legal scanner worldwide and not just in Russia....Irrespective of the outcome of this particular case, in the long term such a trend should only be beneficial for non-Abrahamics. The truth will find a way to triumph.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 17 Dec 2011 20:35

RamaY wrote: Indian constipation is secular, Russia is super secular. Are you suggesting that India should stop trading with Russia?

Russia is as much secular today as China is communist. The ban on Gita has nothing to do with secularism but the revival of Christian orthodox Church and its opposition to ISKCON. ISKCON has one of the largest following in Russia (although mostly underground as they are repeatedly persecuted by the Russian authorities) and the Orthodox church is concerned about its rise. The book which prompted the ban on Gita is "Bhagavat Gita...as it is" a Gita translation by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the Vaishnavite teacher and founder of ISKCON. Not suprisingly, the passage they cited as objectionable is not even in the book of Prabhupada.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Dec 2011 20:53

RamaY wrote:RajeshAji

My (sic) secular argument.

How would banning BG in Russia should affect Indo-Russia relationship? Indian constipation is secular, Russia is super secular. Are you suggesting that India should stop trading with Russia? Are you brushing religious colors on trade as well? Then how will India become progressive, wealthy?

RamaY ji,

Indians may trade with Russia for some time to come, in fact for a long time. But Indians would stop respecting Russia, and superpowerdom is based on respect, especially among allies. We will just drift away with time!

Russia is not attuned to the world, and may end up hurting its own standing in the world in an irreparable manner.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2011 23:20

Russia enters WTO to applause

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Dec 2011 23:34

This is a religious political play and BG is seen as a threat to the integrity of the country.
But we(Indians) have to ensure that BG does not become a political football in Russia or anywhere in the world.

munda · Post by **munda** » 18 Dec 2011 03:30

bilge deleted.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 18 Dec 2011 07:46

^ i am not trying to play the armed forces as the ' holy cow', but your insinuations against air force pilots is nothing less than ridiculous. i can not imagine a couple of pilots attempting to ruin their life for whatever money that is purportedly on offer.

OTOH, there certainly has been (and will continue in future) attempts to derail the development (like in Koodankulam) and strategic partnerships (like with Russia) of the country by powers with vested interest. it is for our govt, establishments and citizenry to place our interest above all others.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 18 Dec 2011 09:29

The Russian Orthodox Church is vehemently against any foreign religious influences, especially the small ones which they feel they can cow down now. ISKCON has been in their cross hairs since early 1990s.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Dec 2011 12:48

ISKON is being used by the British agencies to penetrate the Russian society

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 18 Dec 2011 19:39

Acharya wrote:ISKON is being used by the British agencies to penetrate the Russian society

Any basis for your claim? Why is ISKON supposed to have any truck with the British? The idelogy of ISKON is hardly useful for the British. Leftists within Russia would be far more useful.

Any chance our secular elite during our PM trip has asked for this given their hatred of Hinduism.

Russian Federal Security Tries to Ban Bhagavad-gita As It Is

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Dec 2011 21:50

Regardless of what it represents, the question is what should India's policy be towards "belief systems" that were born within Sanatana Dharma and are being persecuted abroad? my opinion on ISKCON doesn't matter here. what matters is that an SD belief system is being persecuted.....what are the causes? can the concerns of foreign host (in this case Russia) be resolved? how do we protect SD based belief systems from being persecuted?

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 18 Dec 2011 21:57

Oh boy. Even this story appears to our resident Russophiles as a western conspiracy. YGTBKM.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Dec 2011 22:00

bahdada wrote:Oh boy. Even this story appears to our resident Russophiles as a western conspiracy. YGTBKM.

On what basis the BhagavatGita case came to court, isn't it Christian faith?

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 18 Dec 2011 22:08

I was referring to ISKON being some kinda proxy for the British to undermine our "super best friend" Russia.

Anyone who has actually been there and interacted with Russians would not be surprised by this story.

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 18 Dec 2011 22:09

Repost.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 18 Dec 2011 22:21

ISKCON is a nutcase organisation.

Regardless, banning BG might actually empower ISKCON type organisations in russia. Rebellion is a part of human nature.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 18 Dec 2011 23:08

>>Any basis for your claim?

There is. Does anybody know the background of ISKCON? I mean the very beginning, the start, the people involved, etc. Any links? I couldn't find any worthwhile ones.

There was a time, when ISKCON was very much in the cross-hairs of our own agencies. Maybe they still are. I'm personally very skeptical about this organisation. (I remember getting into an interesting discussion on these chaps once on BRF; and a lot of people seemed to be adherents on the forum). Please no need now to list what charitable activities they do and social good they provide. Well aware.

That said, Russian society today is not the sort where any faith other than Orthodox Christianity or some other variation on that theme will get much tolerance. So bahdada is also right.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2011 23:32

iskcon in its initial days was rumoured to be a CIA front. there were some other allegations, mostly rumours that I would rather not get into. however my thinking is that even it was indeed set up as a front, the movement has grown too big to be controlled by vested interests.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Dec 2011 23:59

in my previous post I put my opinions on ISKCON and then got rid of it. anyway, IMVHO, ISKCON is delusion. it spreads delusion and drinks delusion. it's like the Buddha in Srimad Bhagavatam. he was born to spread delusion among the "asuras". the same case with ISKCON. it tried to internalize the Abrahamic proselytizing memes too much. in the process, it has to a large extent forgotten its roots and its source.

if the goal was to disconnect the Western mind from the proselytizing madness, it has failed spectacularly. many a former ISKCONists have gone back to Abrahamic "roots" with renewed "born again" fervor. just shows that SD memes, if they move away too much and try to internalize Abrahamic memes, will ultimately be eaten away and once ardent "devotees" will travel back to former beliefs with greater zeal.

recent debate about Rajiv Malhotra's Tiger vs. Deer analogy is very apt. ISKCON became a deer but thought it was a tiger. the tiger absorbed and ate away the deer.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 00:53

devesh ji,

I have a very high regard for ISKCON and its members. You can't compare it with Tiger & Deer simply because even if there is UTurnism among some followers who cannot make the break, ISKCON has stayed true to its roots and to Prabhupada's teachings.

ISKCON has never denied that their roots lie in Dharma. Their customs and beliefs, and especially their outward presentation is very Indic. I have seen ISKCON followers going around in their sandals in freezing cold to show their commitment to the faith.

I can't say much about the leadership and whether they are all MI6 spies or whatever. That is a separate question, a political one. But on the spiritual and cultural front they have been true to Dharma.

Also there is no Abrahaminism in their teachings, in their worldview or in their approach (except they are good at proselytizing), etc.

I think you are seriously misinformed here!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Dec 2011 01:13

Aditya_V wrote:
Any basis for your claim? Why is ISKON supposed to have any truck with the British? The idelogy of ISKON is hardly useful for the British. Leftists within Russia would be far more useful.

Any chance our secular elite during our PM trip has asked for this given their hatred of Hinduism.

Russian Federal Security Tries to Ban Bhagavad-gita As It Is

No country will go for a ban on BG just for the book. It is the organization and who controls it in that region which may be under suspicion. It does not mean that ISKON is aware of this but other govt can still use the network.

It may be the local chapter of these orginization may be penetrated by foreign agencies

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 01:21

Acharya ji,

then the Russians should take out the those in the local chapter who are involved in this, but going after BG is going for a very big panga with Indians!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Dec 2011 01:24

That is my point! BG cannot be used as a political foot ball but it is bringing social changes in the society.
What social changes are going on in the local region?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 01:28

Perhaps one needs to change the premise. One should say that some officers of the Russian Federal Security have been bought over by the CIA who are trying to precipitate a worsening of the Indo-Russian relations using a ban on BG, so that America can have Indian defense contracts only for itself and bring in India into the American sphere of influence.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 19 Dec 2011 05:08

RajeshA wrote:I have seen ISKCON followers going around in their sandals in freezing cold to show their commitment to the faith.

Every organization can find useful idiots.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 19 Dec 2011 05:10

RajeshA wrote:Perhaps one needs to change the premise. One should say that some officers of the Russian Federal Security have been bought over by the CIA who are trying to precipitate a worsening of the Indo-Russian relations using a ban on BG, so that America can have Indian defense contracts only for itself and bring in India into the American sphere of influence.

Change the premise again. They are using Indic philosophy to penetrate a country that is friendly with India. If they try EJism, they will be easily caught by FSB.

One thing people have to remember is that the real control of ISKCON is not inside India. Indians need to worry only when we start seeing Russians harassing or banning people like Sri Sri Ravishankar and Ammachi.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 07:48

paramu wrote:One thing people have to remember is that the real control of ISKCON is not inside India. Indians need to worry only when we start seeing Russians harassing or banning people like Sri Sri Ravishankar and Ammachi.

What makes you think, that Sri Sri Ravishankar and Ammachi have not been penetrated by say MI6, CIA, etc? They could be having people inside these transnational organizations in influential positions, who may have won their influence through their ability to organize the movement in Western countries, ably assisted by the establishment in these countries.

Any transnational movement would be a prime target for intelligence agencies allowing free movement of their agents across borders.

That does not take away from the very real Dharmic consciousness these organizations have been spreading in the world. Of these ISKCON's philosophy is the one closest to the culture as embodied in the Bhagavat Gita. Other movements are much more dependent on the Guru and his own personal philosophy as developed by him/her.

paramu wrote:
RajeshA wrote:I have seen ISKCON followers going around in their sandals in freezing cold to show their commitment to the faith.
Every organization can find useful idiots.

That cynicism is just as valid for any other Indian organization as well. Should one then stop Dharmic Awareness Movements in the world?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 19 Dec 2011 08:07

paramu wrote:One thing people have to remember is that the real control of ISKCON is not inside India. Indians need to worry only when we start seeing Russians harassing or banning people like Sri Sri Ravishankar and Ammachi.

So where does the "real" control of ISKCON lie? You seem to have some insider knowledge? I have very close friends from both Iskcon as well as Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's AoL group. To all known intents and purposes, the AoL people are very appreciative of Iskcon, and so are most other Indic orgs. Also, the next generation of Iskcon leadership is going to be predominantly Indian. Several very capable and prodigious young Indian disciples are waiting in the wings. It is an organization that is intense, probably a bit over the top in some cases, but it is finding its balance after some stormy weather after the passing away of their founder acharya. Some Indian didn't like the scathing (and sometimes over-the-top) critique of neo-Advaitist philosophies, but I find that such types themselves have a rather poor and one-sided idea of what Vedanta is, IMHO.

devesh wrote:the same case with ISKCON. it tried to internalize the Abrahamic proselytizing memes too much. in the process, it has to a large extent forgotten its roots and its source.

Oh yeah? Your condemnation on this scale reeks of some strong feelings. Ruffled feathers perhaps?

Granted, there was a period when Iskconers were over-the-top and lacking philosophical depth, but that's when they were greenhorns. Wait and watch the next generation. In any case, Iskcon has served as a portal towards Dharmic culture for many, many people, including those who didn't stick with the organization but went through it.

So, irrespective of disagreements, if anyone is interested in helping these people, here's a petition:

http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=IEyp0& ... rY1grYNfcA

Once you sign the petition - you will receive e-mail asking you to confirm your vote - otherwise it will be cancelled.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 19 Dec 2011 08:10

RajeshA wrote: That cynicism is just as valid for any other Indian organization as well. Should one then stop Dharmic Awareness Movements in the world?

Political agendas can be pushed under any guise, be it EJism or Maoism or Sri Ram Sene or Ananda Marg or ISKCON.

One needs to analyze the internal power structure of an organization before taking a call.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Dec 2011 11:59

Pranav wrote:
RajeshA wrote: That cynicism is just as valid for any other Indian organization as well. Should one then stop Dharmic Awareness Movements in the world?
Political agendas can be pushed under any guise, be it EJism or Maoism or Sri Ram Sene or Ananda Marg or ISKCON.

One needs to analyze the internal power structure of an organization before taking a call.

Please analyse, you will see this org is hardly useful for western elites.

The Vast majority of this org is Indians unlike what people have been led to belive. The attempt to ban Bhagvad Gita is plain bigotry and nothing else.

P.S- BTW ISKON Bengaluru temple is a break away faction.