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India-Russia: News & Analysis

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Gyan » 18 Sep 2017 19:33

I think that Putin may have asked 50% (if at all) for Russia. Give 50% shares to Govt from what you have stolen, looks more like his style. He does have Oligarch Friends and may also have benami holdings but this 50% share for Putin himself personally seems nonsense.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby sunnyP » 26 Sep 2017 00:23

Why are the Russians putting their multi billion dollar relationship with India at risk just for the sake of earning some peanuts from Pakistan in the odd defence deal here and there?


Pakistani, Russian armies begin second joint exercise
Russia and Pakistan have begun their second joint military exercise, focussed on counter-terror operations, ahead of the Pakistan Army chief’s visit to Moscow next month.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... NC9bM.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 26 Sep 2017 00:49

sunnyP wrote:Why are the Russians putting their multi billion dollar relationship with India at risk just for the sake of earning some peanuts from Pakistan in the odd defence deal here and there?


Pakistani, Russian armies begin second joint exercise
Russia and Pakistan have begun their second joint military exercise, focussed on counter-terror operations, ahead of the Pakistan Army chief’s visit to Moscow next month.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... NC9bM.html



Because strength respects strength. The day we don't need them , they will come to us. Or hold over them had been Paki reluctance to ally with them and that they were literally or single source arms supplier. Today as we have diversified they are open to selling to others.

If we were strong enough to go without them and the US then both world court us. IMHO India today is going thorny l through adolescence. Not cute like a baby, nor respected as an adult. No more mai-baal to protect us and still not strong enough to be taken seriously

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 26 Sep 2017 12:01

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 753370.ece
Russia to send its Afghanistan special envoy to India
Suhasini Haidar Kallol Bhattacherjee NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 25, 2017 22:12 IST
UPDATED: SEPTEMBER 26, 2017 08:57 IST

Zamir Kabulov.
Amid Delhi’s concerns over its ties with Pak. and its new position on talks with Taliban

Close on the heels of the visit of U.S. Defence Secretary James Mattis, Russia is sending President Putin’s special representative for Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov to Delhi in October, senior Russian officials confirmed to The Hindu.

Mr. Kabulov’s visit, where he is also expected to discuss Moscow’s new position on talks with the Taliban, will come amidst growing concerns in India over Russia’s ties with Pakistan.

“Russia is not supplying arms to the Taliban, but we think it is necessary to talk to those in the Taliban willing to give up violence, and we hope India will join in the effort,” a senior Russian diplomat said, adding that in their assessment the “Taliban cannot be defeated militarily by the government in Kabul.”

The tough predictions come in sharp contrast to the U.S.’ new Afghanistan policy that will see at least 3,000 more troops sent to fight in Afghanistan and offers India an increased role in development projects while pushing Pakistan to act against terrorist “safe havens”.

Dead-end policy

Moscow has already criticised the U.S. plan as a “dead-end policy” and warned against “putting pressure” on Pakistan. Another sign of the growing shift in Russian policy came on Monday as Russian and Pakistani special forces began military exercises in the Mineralnye Vody region. The exercises will be a precursor to a visit by Pakistan’s Army Chief General Bajwa to Moscow in October.

“Regular high-level exchanges between the two sides in the past few years have set the stage for translating political goodwill into a substantial partnership in particular, in the field of defence,” Pakistan’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Nafees Zakaria said on Friday while announcing General Bajwa’s visit.

Mr. Kabulov would also talk about the “Moscow format” for talks on Afghanistan, which was started last year with only Russia, China and Pakistan, and then expanded to include Afghanistan, Iran and India. However, after the U.S. rejected an invitation to join, the talks have been shelved “temporarily” according to officials, as the Ghani government now wants all such processes to be held in Kabul and led by the Afghan government.

Russian officials told The Hindu that they are already in discussions with India about the possibility of security cooperation for Afghanistan, including facilitating an ongoing proposal to refurbish Soviet-era planes and repair Russian Mi-25 helicopters donated by India, along with talks on providing spare parts and ammunition to Afghan forces, but conceded that the talks had not yet been concluded. Some of the Russian hesitation may be a result of Afghanistan’s new resolve to transition completely from its Russian military hardware to U.S. aircraft and Western army models, with about 200 airplanes expected to be delivered by the U.S. by 2023.

“Afghanistan is free to choose what it needs for its defence requirements,” said the official, “ But we think our hardware is cheaper, and we are a much closer neighbour, able to deliver more quickly.”

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby periaswamy » 13 Oct 2017 00:07

Not really India Russia relations, but carnatic heavy metal, a new heavy metal genre the Russian Band Kartikeya is probably breaking new ground with heavy metal songs growled in sanskrit like "Fields of Kurukshetra" or sarva mangalam...most of the songs are in english...metal with some carnatic shlokums thrown in. Gets your energy up and all ready to eff up the kauravas if required.

https://www.facebook.com/kartikeyaband

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ramana » 13 Oct 2017 04:43

Maybe you suggest setting the Battle of Kursk in Carnatic Music similar to 1812 overture?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2017 12:28

We must also dump the attitude that Russia needs our arms sales more than we require its arms.That is a fallacy.We are far more dependent upon Russian arms than they for orders.In recent times,Russian arms sales have been soaring and to counties former Western/US bumchums.Look at Egypt for ex. Bought the Mistrals destined for Russia from France.Russia got their moolah,the entire Mistral designs,plus sold 52KA-52 navalized heavt attack helos for the ships,plus MIG-29 and MIG-35 orders. I think that T-90 MBTs are also on the anvil. Iran,S-300s,Turkey,who after shooting down a Russian fighter are now buying S-400s and the latest nation on the list for the same,whose king just made a pilgrimage to Moscow,the Saudis also buying S-400s.
Moscow, Riyadh to Sign Contract for Supply of S-400 Missiles - Reports
https://sputniknews.com/world/201710131058192155-russia-saudi-arabia-s-400/

Our S-400 deal mentioned a year ago languishes somewhere in the cobwebbed corridors of the MOD.Are we waiting to buy US ABM systems instead? Even if we now seal the S-400 deal,we will have to stand in the queue after China,Turkey,the Saudis. and anyone else who will sign on before us..!
SU-35 jets are going to China,Indonesia,perhaps Malaysia,Vietnam,etc. and if we don't seal the deal for the FGFA in some form,at least buying the aircraft in an outright deal,the Russians will happily sell it to whoever they feel.Why even Pak could in the future get SU-35s while we lust after the vintage XO F-16s which they've used for decades!
Last edited by Philip on 13 Oct 2017 12:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2017 12:36

Apols. for X-posting this from the Levant td.,but it should be studied carefully by our policy makers in the MEA.The US is a waning giant,while Putin's Russia has "seized the day",carpe diem.

The Czar of the Middle East! It isn't as if Putin wanted to be another Putin,sorry...Peter the Great,but if one dispassionately reviews events over the last few years,one can see that he was reluctantly forced to take certain hard decisions which he never wavered from once taken.

It all began with the Sochi Winter Olympics.There was concerted effort to downgrade the games,which were brilliantly organised,embarrass Russia,etc. A simultaneous revolt in the UKR was orchestrated sending the pro-Russian leader Yanukovich running for his life-in fact Putin said that Russia saved his life.(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnQbZ0JchF4) PL. watch this ,v.interesting docu including Putin,how he was saved.

This was done with clear western/EU covert and overt ops,where EU politicos were seen in Kiev urging on the demonstrators.This led to the division of the UKR with the West and neo-Nazis forces of the Right Sector This led to Putin determining that Crimea (handed over to Kiev earlier,but which was always Russian) should be returned to Russia.As they say the rest was history.Putin swiftly through a referendum giving it legitimacy,saw to it that the Crimes was back in Russian control and a grand victory celeb. was held in the Kremlin for the world to see.The West defeated in its intent to oust Russian influence in the UKR was determined to damage Putin's reputation and used all manner of tricks including the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner ,blaming it on Russian separatists.
As many analysts have said,Russian ones too,the West/NATO reneged upon the deal made between Reagan and Gorbachev about not advancing into Eastern European nations by NATO ,which reached Russia's borders ,acerbated with the planned UKR coup.It was the last straw for Russia.Putin got what he wanted most,the Crimea,a strategic prize without price ,the spearhead ensuring domination of the Balck Sea and saw to it that a cease-fire was orchestrated through the Minsk agreement,cemeting his Crimean take-away ,fait accompli!

In the Middle east,the West and its Sunni Arab potentates,wanted to overthrow/regime change again,the Syrian govt. as they did in Libya,etc. They used the old Afghan tricks,sponsoring anti-govt. demos,acts of terror,funding and training so-called 'rebels" and launched an attempt to oust Assad using a two-front strategy.ISIS, a Western/Arab/Saudi creation,where even the Turks were doing business with ISIS, and the motley group of Syrian 'rebels" made a massive attempt to oust Assad.Unfortunately, for Assad and the Syrian people/regime,it was either fight to the death or get thrown into the Meditt. Sea. At a crucial moment,when US chicanery was evident in all is loathing and duplicity,pretending to combat ISIS when in fact it was protecting it,Putin intervened to preserve Russia's legitimate rights in the region.In a matter of a few weeks he had stooped ISIS in its tracks,then with the help of Syrian and Iranian backed militias,he turned the tide and sent ISIS on a course of retreat from which they never could break out of.City by city fell to the pro-Assad forces and even Turkey which shot down a Russian fighter,have made an about turn and have established close ties with Russia to the extent of Russia providing it with S-400 ABM missiles!

The Sunni potentates,bum-chums of the US for decades,suddenly woke up and smelt the samovar! They realised that it was Putin who was a real man,who never flinched from doing the biz.They now want his blessings for their won survival as they know that Russia could in days destroy their mil capability amply demonstrated in Syria.Russia's traditional close ties to Shiite Iran also worry them,therefore the pilgrimage top Moscow by the Saudi king,etc.All this achieved despite the worst ever sanctions and anti-Russia campaign by the West,US and UK in particular.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/how ... ddle-east/
How Putin came to rule the Middle East
Syria and Libya are just two examples of how the Russian leader has been running rings around the West
John R. Bradley

(Illustration by Christian Adams)
John R. Bradley
7 October 2017
9:00 AM
When Russia entered the Syrian civil war in September 2015 the then US secretary of defense, Ash Carter, predicted catastrophe for the Kremlin. Vladimir Putin was ‘pouring gasoline on the fire’ of the conflict, he said, and his strategy of fighting Isis while backing the Assad regime was ‘doomed to failure’. Two years on, Putin has emerged triumphant and Bashar al-Assad’s future is secure. They will soon declare victory over Isis inside the country.

The dismal failure turned out to be our cynical effort to install a Sunni regime in Damascus by adopting the Afghanistan playbook from the 1980s. We would train, fund and arm jihadis, foreign and domestic, in partnership with the Gulf Arab despots. This way we would rob Russia of its only warm-water naval base, Tartus, on Syria’s Mediterranean coast. In the process we would create a buffer between Iran and its Lebanon-based proxy, Hezbollah, to divide the anti-Israel Shia axis. And we would further marginalise Iran by extending the influence of our Sunni Gulf allies from Lebanon deeper into the Levant. Half a million Syrians were slaughtered as a consequence of this hare-brained scheme, which geo-politically has resulted in the exact opposite of the intended outcome.

Putin, though, had grasped the reality at the outset. Unlike Afghans, ordinary Syrians were used to living in a liberal, diverse culture that, while politically repressive, championed peaceful religious co-existence. Most of them were nervous about seeing their country transformed into a Wahhabi theocracy. Assad, for all his faults, was the buffer between them and internecine carnage. They stuck with the devil they knew, and there was no popular revolution against Assad — nothing compared to the Tahrir uprising that ousted the hated Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak. The millions-strong demonstrations in Damascus were pro-regime. Among the two-thirds of the Syrian population now living in government–controlled parts of the country, Assad is more popular than ever, and Putin is a hero.

Small wonder Putin recently mocked Washington for ‘not knowing the difference between Austria and Australia’. The same charge could, alas, be levelled at Nato leaders generally. At a UN meeting last month, the Orwellian-named Friends of Syria group — the western and Gulf Arab alliance that unleashed jihad — stated they would not engage in reconstruction efforts until (in Boris Johnson’s words) there was a political ‘move away from’ Assad. But weeks earlier, a massive international conference on reconstruction had taken place in Damascus. During it, Assad had ruled out awarding the multi-billion-dollar contracts up for grabs to hostile western and Arab countries on the grounds that they had destroyed his country. Instead, Syria would look east, and especially to Russia, Iran and China. Already Moscow is busy shipping thousands of tons of materials and more than 40 pieces of construction equipment — including bulldozers and cranes — to Syria, which does not want or need our assistance.

An inability to acknowledge, still less confront, Russia’s expanding regional role on the back of Syria was similarly highlighted during a whirlwind trip Johnson made to Libya in August. There, he had a brief meeting with secular strongman Khalifa Haftar, a former general in Gaddafi’s army whose forces now dominate eastern Libya — including Benghazi and most of the country’s major oil fields. He is determined to overrun Tripoli, and probably will. Haftar has ties with Moscow going back to the early 1970s and has been in Putin’s pocket for at least two years, repeatedly meeting with Russian officials on an aircraft-carrier off the Mediterranean coast. A week before shaking hands with Johnson, Haftar had visited Moscow to hold extensive discussions with top officials from the defence and foreign ministries. They cemented plans to move fragmented Libya towards statehood under Haftar as an all-powerful defence minister, with direct Russian military aid. The Kremlin has already deployed troops and fighter jets to western Egypt to join that country and the UAE, which is also backing Haftar in his unifying fight against the Islamists. As with Syria, for decades before the fall of Gaddafi, Russia was Libya’s biggest arms supplier and closest international ally, and Moscow has long been eyeing a naval base on the Libyan coastline to complement its (now much beefed-up) base in Tartus. Given all this, as Johnson suggested that Haftar may have a ‘role to play’ in any future political reconciliation, while insisting that he abide by an internationally brokered ceasefire, the latter must have found it hard to contain his laughter.

Syria and Libya, though, are just two examples of how Russia is running rings around the West in its determination to achieve superpower status in the Middle East. Putin has just inked a deal with Turkey — which has Nato’s second-largest standing army — to sell the latter its most advanced S-400 air defence system. (The S-400 has already been deployed across Syria, while Iran has been given the less advanced but still formidable S-300.) Shortly after Russia entered the Syrian war, Turkey had shot down one of its planes. It was a deliberate attempt to provoke a wider war by President Recep Erdogan, who was furious that Putin was, by way of a relentless bombing campaign, putting an end to his support for Isis foot soldiers inside Syria and his purchasing of oil from the caliphate. (Nato had ignored all this duplicity in the hope that Isis would weaken Assad.) It is testament to Putin’s extraordinary diplomatic skills that Russia and Turkey are these days singing each other’s praises as never before. And under Russian auspices, Turkey is working with Iran and Iraq to contain the fallout from the Kurdish referendum on independence.

When King Salman arrived in Moscow this week, it was the first time that a Saudi leader paid an official visit to Russia — but just the latest in more than two dozen face-to-face meetings Putin has had with Middle Eastern leaders. Russia, of course, is not the Soviet Union, and it is easy to see why the Saudi and other Gulf tyrannies believe they can do business with an authoritarian leader like Putin. He shares their contempt for western-style democracy; and, unlike whoever happens to inhabit the White House, he is a man of his word, promotes stability not chaos, and has no complicating human rights agenda.

On the Saudi agenda in Moscow: the rise of Iran as a dominant regional player, Syria’s de-escalation zones, and billions of dollars in Russian arms sales and direct mutual economic investment. Riyadh is still outraged that the Obama administration had agreed a nuclear deal with Iran, the Saudis’ rival for regional hegemony, and is sulking over the Syria debacle. They have only Russia to turn to in an effort to limit Tehran’s influence in Syria. For the same reason, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been holding meetings with Putin. During one, he was almost in tears as he, like the Saudis, begged the Russian leader to rein in Iran and Hezbollah, which seek the Jewish state’s destruction.

In a desperate last-ditch effort to stop the Putin power grab in his tracks, the Trump administration will almost certainly decertify the Iranian nuclear deal on October 15, despite the International Atomic Energy Agency, EU and UN being adamant that Tehran is abiding by its terms. The aim is to provoke military confrontation with Iran, or at the least create more regional turmoil to undermine the Kremlin. The reckless and unjustified move will throw a spanner in the works, but in the long-term is — like intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria — doomed to failure.

Putin is well ahead of the curve, having pulled off the seemingly impossible diplomatic feat of fighting alongside Hezbollah in Syria while allowing Israel to bomb Hezbollah and Syrian regime targets inside the country. Last week, a delegation from the Palestinian terror outfit Hamas visited Moscow for talks on the peace process after reconciling with arch-rival Fatah following yet another successful direct intervention by Putin. And Netanyahu has been told that, although Russia considers Israel an important partner, Iran will, come what may, remain its indispensable ally. Putin might therefore already have the diplomatic leverage needed to defuse tensions between Iran and Israel, once again leaving Washington sidelined and humiliated. For while the consequences of Netanyahu beating the war drums over Iran used to be non-existent, now Moscow could give the green light to battle–hardened Iran, Syria and Hezbollah to unleash hellfire against the Jewish state.

It is easy to understand why Netanyahu is quaking in his boots, but should we in Europe be alarmed at Putin’s Middle East triumph? Not unduly so. You do not have to be a Putin groupie to acknowledge that it isn’t him who has been launching one illegal invasion after another in the region, leaving millions dead, maimed and displaced. And he has not only stemmed the flow of Syrian refugees into our continent, but started to reverse the trend. Half a million Syrians have returned to their country this year alone.

And while no side has emerged with their hands clean from one of the most brutal civil wars in modern history, it is also hugely heartening that there were so few defections from a Syrian army overwhelmingly made up of Sunni Muslims (80 per cent by some accounts). They were battling against myriad Sunni jihadi groups in the name of an Alawite-dominated regime, alongside Russian soldiers appalled (unlike us) by the carnage unleashed against their fellow Christians, as well as hardline Shia militias sent by Iran and Hezbollah likewise determined to protect their own sect. Given how Tunisia and Turkey — the two historically secular Muslim countries in the region — are fast embracing Islamism, and how Sunni–Shia infighting continues to tear apart much of the rest of the Middle East, the victory of pluralism and secularism over the wicked Wahhabi jihad in Syria is ultimately uplifting.

John R. Bradley is the author of books on Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the Arab Spring, and has been covering the Middle East for two decades.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 27 Oct 2017 14:07

Russia offers defence technology to India without any strings attached

Russia's technology transfers to India in the defence sector have been without any strings attached and there is scope for further deepening the military ties.

Vice Chief of the Indian Air Force Air Marshal S B Deo today said."When it comes to technology transfer, Russia really offers everything they have from the heart without any strings attached," Deo said at an event to celebrate 70 years of diplomatic ties between India and Russia.

Noting that there was scope for expansion of India's defence ties with Russia, Air Marshal Deo also said the relationship should be developed focusing more on commercial aspects.

"The time has come for the relationship to be more on a commercial basis. It can be a win-win situation for both Russia and India," he said.


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 28 Oct 2017 02:08


arun
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 02 Nov 2017 12:37

Russia’s ties with Pakistan and India cannot be "equalised": Russian ambassador ………………………..

On the sidelines of a press briefing on the recently concluded first Indo-Russia tri-services exercise, Indra-2017, Kudashev while responding to a question on India’s emerging defence partnership with Japan, the Malabar naval exercise and Russia’s views on it said, “I would say we welcome a larger bloc with an open regional architecture, where there would be space for all and space for trust and confidence. Naturally, India, Russia and Japan included.” ……………………….


The Russian response to a post-cold war substantial diminution in her national power has been to cede influence and play second fiddle to the Peoples Republic of China in her (i.e. Russia’s) old Central Asian stamping grounds in the “Stans” besides in the Far East thereby reserving slimmed down national power for play in the West in areas such as Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia. Russian Ambassador Nikolay-Kudashev’s talk of welcoming “a larger bloc with an open regional architecture” is thus diplomatic hot air to gull India as Russia having already kowtowed to the PRC in the East, has no intention of curbing PRC’s shenanigans in the East.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 02 Nov 2017 14:37

Russia’s Gazprom To Help Build Iran-India Gas Pipeline

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... eline.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 02 Nov 2017 14:39

Russia China bloc is a good thing , World need alternate to USD and Euro and Chinese Renminbi backed by Russian , Iran and Venezeula and CSTO/CIS energy resources would be a positive development, eventually OPEC too will support it due to its trading base with China

Renminbi has already got reserve status from IMF so it is just an extension

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 03 Nov 2017 04:37

Austin wrote:Russia China bloc is a good thing , World need alternate to USD and Euro and Chinese Renminbi backed by Russian , Iran and Venezeula and CSTO/CIS energy resources would be a positive development, eventually OPEC too will support it due to its trading base with China

Renminbi has already got reserve status from IMF so it is just an extension

Some more fancy economics eh Austin ? Show me countries doing well because of the China/Russia/Iran/Venezuela bloc. And Venezuela ? It's the textbook definition of an economic basket case - no wonder you like it :rotfl:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2017 13:26

KrishnaK wrote:
Austin wrote:Russia China bloc is a good thing , World need alternate to USD and Euro and Chinese Renminbi backed by Russian , Iran and Venezeula and CSTO/CIS energy resources would be a positive development, eventually OPEC too will support it due to its trading base with China

Renminbi has already got reserve status from IMF so it is just an extension

Some more fancy economics eh Austin ? Show me countries doing well because of the China/Russia/Iran/Venezuela bloc. And Venezuela ? It's the textbook definition of an economic basket case - no wonder you like it :rotfl:


It is about having alternative to USD , These countries would use Petro Yuan backed by Gold in their transaction to trade their energy resources , China is the largest importer of Energy , The OPEC countries would also be forces to trade part of their oil transaction with Yuan as Saudi supplies 40 % of Chinas Energy needs. http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wa ... 17-10?IR=T

Renminbi already has Reserve Status at IMF and China Trade base is huge and wide. Russia Energy Reserves are far bigger than Saudi "]7 Top Oil Stocks With Largest Proven Oil Reserves

I can tell you many countries that uses USD and still dont do well , Not to mention these Reserve Currency (USD/Euro/Yen/Pound] are themself not doing well due to huge Debt for US and EU countries and QE by them

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 05 Nov 2017 01:25

Austin wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:Some more fancy economics eh Austin ? Show me countries doing well because of the China/Russia/Iran/Venezuela bloc. And Venezuela ? It's the textbook definition of an economic basket case - no wonder you like it :rotfl:


It is about having alternative to USD , These countries would use Petro Yuan backed by Gold in their transaction to trade their energy resources , China is the largest importer of Energy , The OPEC countries would also be forces to trade part of their oil transaction with Yuan as Saudi supplies 40 % of Chinas Energy needs. http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wa ... 17-10?IR=T
Some very vague claims all underwritten by some very vague grievance against western economies. Petro-yuan backed by gold ? The yuan isn't free floating currency, it's fixed to the dollar, from your own article.

Renminbi already has Reserve Status at IMF and China Trade base is huge and wide. Russia Energy Reserves are far bigger than Saudi "]7 Top Oil Stocks With Largest Proven Oil Reserves
So ? How much of China trade is selling to western economies ? What happens when electricity steadily displaces oil.

I can tell you many countries that uses USD and still dont do well , Not to mention these Reserve Currency (USD/Euro/Yen/Pound] are themself not doing well due to huge Debt for US and EU countries and QE by them
Again very vague claims, not doing well. Venezuela is insolvent not because of using any reserve currency, but because of its economics. Those are the sort of countries that resort to looking for Chinese capital.

China still does not have the capacity to make their currency freely convertible, it's pegged to the dollar. At that point, why not hold the dollar itself ? After all the US economy is by far way more transparent compared to the Chinese one. To give you an estimate of how ridiculous that is, the swedish kronor and the swiss franc are freely convertible.

There is no Russa/China bloc. It's alliance based on undermining the US. It is not an alliance based on sustainable interests - like say trade. China isn't creating a bloc with anyone unless it can open up its market and polity and create sustainable interests based on trade and transparency. Especially when its own trade is heavily with the west.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby periaswamy » 05 Nov 2017 01:50

Krishnak: So ? How much of China trade is selling to western economies ? What happens when electricity steadily displaces oil.


Why should that matter to a country that has enough and more oil to feed its oil-based vehicles? That is not a factor that plays into external trade. So what is the point you are trying to make here? curious, that's all.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 05 Nov 2017 02:52

periaswamy wrote:
Krishnak: So ? How much of China trade is selling to western economies ? What happens when electricity steadily displaces oil.


Why should that matter to a country that has enough and more oil to feed its oil-based vehicles? That is not a factor that plays into external trade. So what is the point you are trying to make here? curious, that's all.
They lose their clout. US dominance which many on this forum resent, is not based on just natural resources or USD being a reserve currency etc. It has the largest and most consumptive market, deep and liquid financial markets, dominates S&T, all based on a pretty resilient and transparent political system (ignoring the other forum obsession, the deep state for a bit). The contenders all seem to have a single ace - large deposits of oil, lots of nukes, a large MIC, or a large manufacturing ecosystem and an export driven economy, etc.

About Russia specifically -
As of 2012 the oil-and-gas sector accounted for 16% of GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports.
Pretty old info, but one that has not changed substantially I think.

They're all one trick ponies - if the premise their clout is based on vanishes, they find it hard to adapt and drop out of the race. Very few remember the Soviet Union today, back in the day many thought they'd win. For these actors to pose a real alternative, they'll have to offer something more than a relative flash in the pan. China is attempting to move to a consumption based economy, Russia wants to pivot to AI, all of which is easier said than done. But they'll find creating a stable and transparent political system far harder. I think the real contender outside of the west is India, which has mastered the far more difficult problem - how to run a country, i.e. manage varied and often opposing political interests, without the need to find an external threat.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby periaswamy » 05 Nov 2017 03:00

They lose their clout. US dominance which many on this forum resent, is not based on just natural resources or USD being a reserve currency etc. It has the largest and most consumptive market, deep and liquid financial markets, dominates S&T, all based on a pretty resilient and transparent political system (ignoring the other forum obsession, the deep state for a bit). The contenders all seem to have a single ace - large deposits of oil, lots of nukes, a large MIC, or a large manufacturing ecosystem and an export driven economy, etc.


As The Dude in The Big Lebowski said: "that is just, like, your opinion, dude". You are making the assumption that the move away from oil will happen everywhere in short order, but that does not hold. Oil-producers would only lose their clout if the entire world moved away from oil --- clearly that option is only available to high-tech countries which have the technology to move away from oil. That still leaves a significant amount of the planet's surface filled with countries that will continue to use oil. Forget the "forum obsession" and such nonsense -- the "forum" is not a single entity, so let's cut that out, eh? Your claims have a lot of inbuilt assumption that are not necessarily correct. If the west was freely sharing its intellectual property that would allow countries to move away from oil-based economies, your claims would make more sense, but we all know nothing of that sort will happen. Now or ever. The barrier to entry to becoming an oil-free economy is rather high at this moment, and is unlikely to change any time soon.

About Russia specifically -
As of 2012 the oil-and-gas sector accounted for 16% of GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports.
Pretty old info, but one that has not changed substantially I think.


That does not necessarily suggest that Russia has no options available in the future outside of its oil resources. Besides, as pointed out above, it is a fallacy to pretend that the market for oil-based vehicles is about to vanish in short order, no matter how many Paris agreements are signed to move things in that direction.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 05 Nov 2017 04:29

^^^"There is no Russia/China bloc. It's alliance based on undermining the US. It is not an alliance based on sustainable interests "

"The larger Chinese goal is to dominate Eurasia, which means relegating Russia to a second-tier power."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opin ... valry.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby devesh » 05 Nov 2017 05:38

The real sticking point between Russia and PRC could be the Far East. But Chinese are not fools. They would not venture into that theater without first neutralizing India. THat's the chicken and egg problem for Bharat. This Russo-Chinese understanding would collapse if only the US could open its eyes and strike a deal with Russia. Barring that, Russia and China will continue their partnership to undermine US power in Eurasia.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 05 Nov 2017 14:28

Cosmo_R wrote:^^^"There is no Russia/China bloc. It's alliance based on undermining the US. It is not an alliance based on sustainable interests "

"The larger Chinese goal is to dominate Eurasia, which means relegating Russia to a second-tier power."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opin ... valry.html


Yes coming from New York times it must be absolutely true ....All the economic trade deal , Energy Deal ,Military Co-operation ,SCO BRICS etc must just be there to undermine US and not for mutual benefit.

And Russia should keep buying US T Bills and Trade in USD because Russia is grateful that US has sanctioned them completely while China getting Reserve Status and Trading Base with it purchasing 45 % of Russian Energy means nothing to them and they should not touch Petro Yuan at all.

Life is Good Keep using USD and purchasing US T bills because US has just more than 100 % of Debt to GDP and QE must be the greatest thing invented greatly helping the US Economy

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 05 Nov 2017 14:36

periaswamy wrote:As The Dude in The Big Lebowski said: "that is just, like, your opinion, dude". You are making the assumption that the move away from oil will happen everywhere in short order, but that does not hold. Oil-producers would only lose their clout if the entire world moved away from oil --- clearly that option is only available to high-tech countries which have the technology to move away from oil. That still leaves a significant amount of the planet's surface filled with countries that will continue to use oil. Forget the "forum obsession" and such nonsense -- the "forum" is not a single entity, so let's cut that out, eh? Your claims have a lot of inbuilt assumption that are not necessarily correct. If the west was freely sharing its intellectual property that would allow countries to move away from oil-based economies, your claims would make more sense, but we all know nothing of that sort will happen. Now or ever. The barrier to entry to becoming an oil-free economy is rather high at this moment, and is unlikely to change any time soon.


The saudis derived power from being THE swing producer of oil. They could and did cause the biggest economies to choke with their oil embargo. Now they're issuing an IPO.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 05 Nov 2017 15:06

Austin wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:^^^"There is no Russia/China bloc. It's alliance based on undermining the US. It is not an alliance based on sustainable interests "

"The larger Chinese goal is to dominate Eurasia, which means relegating Russia to a second-tier power."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/opin ... valry.html


Yes coming from New York times it must be absolutely true ....All the economic trade deal , Energy Deal ,Military Co-operation ,SCO BRICS etc must just be there to undermine US and not for mutual benefit.

And Russia should keep buying US T Bills and Trade in USD because Russia is grateful that US has sanctioned them completely while China getting Reserve Status and Trading Base with it purchasing 45 % of Russian Energy means nothing to them and they should not touch Petro Yuan at all.

Life is Good Keep using USD and purchasing US T bills because US has just more than 100 % of Debt to GDP and QE must be the greatest thing invented greatly helping the US Economy
China trades more with Australia than Russia. China - Russia trade is USD 80billion. China - Australia trade is AUS$ 155 billion ~ USD 118 billion. I hope you occasionally make more sense than the NYTimes.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby periaswamy » 05 Nov 2017 20:12

KrishnaK: The saudis derived power from being THE swing producer of oil. They could and did cause the biggest economies to choke with their oil embargo. Now they're issuing an IPO.


The saudis were also 100% welfare state that lavished free houses and weddings and scholarships abroad for the whole family for every saudi citizen for decades, not to mention buying expensive weapons and depending on foreign labour and foreign infrastructure. That is why they are bankrupt -- Qatar did not do any of that and with a far smaller oil reserve it is far richer than Saudi.

Russia does not have a similar problem -- but their extraction costs are a low as that of the saudis and they don't need high margins because they use their oil revenue wiser than the saudis.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 06 Nov 2017 01:42

periaswamy wrote:
KrishnaK: The saudis derived power from being THE swing producer of oil. They could and did cause the biggest economies to choke with their oil embargo. Now they're issuing an IPO.


The saudis were also 100% welfare state that lavished free houses and weddings and scholarships abroad for the whole family for every saudi citizen for decades, not to mention buying expensive weapons and depending on foreign labour and foreign infrastructure. That is why they are bankrupt -- Qatar did not do any of that and with a far smaller oil reserve it is far richer than Saudi.
We're not talking about being rich. We're talking about having a near veto in international trade. For example - when the Saudi King died and the whole world sent their representatives and the Indian flag flew at half mast. Part of it is because of their position as the guardians of the two holy places, partly because they were THE swing producer of oil. US policy in the middle east has been to ensure free access to oil for itself and its allies. Oil will no longer hold such power even if the entire world hasn't switched off. Once alternatives exist, even if those alternatives are expensive, the oil producers lose leverage. Look at shale oil for example.

Russia does not have a similar problem -- but their extraction costs are a low as that of the saudis and they don't need high margins because they use their oil revenue wiser than the saudis.
Exactly how are they using their revenues wisely when oil continues to be the mainstay of the Russian economy ? Oh BTW, Russian extraction costs are 2x saudis.

Per barrel costs - Russia: 20, Saudi: 10

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby periaswamy » 06 Nov 2017 04:05

KrishkaK:We're not talking about being rich. We're talking about having a near veto in international trade.


Maybe that was so in the past. At this point in time, Saudi does not have a veto in international trade either, and with curent oil prices. Russia still makes a profit regards less of saudi's margins (which are insufficient for the Saudi state). Going back to your original comment, on why anyone would want to trade in alternate currencies -- there is enough motivation to do so just a matter of diversification.


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 11 Nov 2017 04:18



Russian saying this fake news is spread by French to promote DCN products in India.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ajay_hk » 11 Nov 2017 06:53

X - post

'No US officer given access to N-sub on lease from Russia'
TNN | Nov 11, 2017, 04:55 IST
NEW DELHI: The country's defence establishment has rejected Russian media reports that India allowed US military officials on board nuclear-powered submarine INS Chakra, which has been leased from Russia for 10 years under a $900 million deal.

Though there was no official statement, sources said there was "no question" of letting US officials or "anyone else" near INS Chakra, the Akula-II class submarine inducted by the Indian Navy in April 2012, in violation of the terms of agreement inked with Russia. "This is a disinformation campaign being carried out by some vested interests," said a source.


...

Russian news portal Kommersant on Thursday claimed the Indian Navy had permitted a US technical crew to inspect INS Chakra, saying the "unprecedented scandal" threatened "to seriously complicate the negotiations on the lease of the second nuclear submarine". But on Friday, another Russian news portal, NEWS.ru, asserted that "French lobbyists" had "an ulterior role in spreading misinformation to further their own chances of selling a nuclear-powered attack submarine to India".

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby bahdada » 11 Nov 2017 09:59

Oh lordy! Russian sub technology in jeopardy. Must press for more $USD in next negotiations.


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 20 Nov 2017 11:39

Russia issued stamp on the 100th birth anniversary of Indira Gandhi.

Image

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 21 Nov 2017 07:25

Did the Soviets cultivate Indira or was it the other way round, leading to the Tashkent episode which resulted in Indira coming to Power?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 21 Nov 2017 10:28

KrishnaK wrote:China trades more with Australia than Russia. China - Russia trade is USD 80billion. China - Australia trade is AUS$ 155 billion ~ USD 118 billion. I hope you occasionally make more sense than the NYTimes.


That is because if low oil price when Oil is at 50 % had the oil been in $100 that figure in USD would be double. But China and Russia trade is growing percentage wise even if dollar figure is low.

China Russia trade in Energy is Huge some of the big deals signed is under works like pipe line getting built etc it is just a matter of time that China And Russia would use petro-yuan backed by gold for Oil Trade thats a no brainier now. Even Western Media like CNBC says the same https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/24/petro-y ... racts.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby bahdada » 21 Nov 2017 11:25

Vips wrote:Did the Soviets cultivate Indira or was it the other way round, leading to the Tashkent episode which resulted in Indira coming to Power?


A Complete Soviet Asset.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby KrishnaK » 21 Nov 2017 12:48

Austin wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:China trades more with Australia than Russia. China - Russia trade is USD 80billion. China - Australia trade is AUS$ 155 billion ~ USD 118 billion. I hope you occasionally make more sense than the NYTimes.


That is because if low oil price when Oil is at 50 % had the oil been in $100 that figure in USD would be double. But China and Russia trade is growing percentage wise even if dollar figure is low.
twice of puny is still puny

China Russia trade in Energy is Huge some of the big deals signed is under works like pipe line getting built etc it is just a matter of time that China And Russia would use petro-yuan backed by gold for Oil Trade thats a no brainier now. Even Western Media like CNBC says the same https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/24/petro-y ... racts.html

You should read articles you post

Beijing faces skeptical global oil markets and global perceptions it exerts too much state control. Those factors will hinder its drive to build a viable oil pricing benchmark that's able to compete with more established benchmarks like West Texas Intermediate or Brent (both dollar-denominated).

The architects of the "petro-yuan" face an uphill struggle in dislodging the "petrodollar" and, with it, more than four decades of U.S. dollar-priced oil. Attracting interest from entrenched and active markets in Europe, the U.S. and the Middle East — used to price more than two-thirds of the world's oil worth trillions of dollars – poses another major challenge.

"Many, many futures contracts are launched because they make some sense from a logical market point of view and they get a lot of attention. But then they die because the key is liquidity," said Jeff Brown, president at FGE, an international energy consultant.

There are really only a handful of truly global oil contracts from which all else is based, Brown explained, adding: "It will be extraordinarily difficult to change that."

Level playing field?

Another obstacle standing in the path of China's ambitions to price oil in yuan is the currency itself. The yuan is not yet fully convertible, it's fixed daily, prone to intervention and subject to capital controls.

Given that regime of tight control over the currency, many global players are likely to assume a yuan-denominated oil benchmark would be firmly under Beijing's thumb.


Plans are one thing, translating that to reality is something else. Else, we'd be seeing a gold backed international trading system by now, given how the your gold CT clique keeps railing.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 21 Nov 2017 13:53

Russia is a far more dependable ally than the US.Just look at the fracas at the UN right now over the appointment of a judge to the ICJ where India and the UK are locked in a war over the same.The US will ALWAYS take the side of the Anglo-Saxon "5 eyes" white nations (Canada,UK,Australia,New Zealand and the US).The 5 nations are a mil/intel bloc by themselves within the western /NATO alliances.Norway is another v.close bum-chum of the US,has been for decades from the WW2 era. Norway is often sued as a "benami" agent of the US in "resolving" intl. disputes to the US's interests. Take the "Oslo Accord" betweenIsrael and the Palestinians,now effectively in the dustbin. The Norwegians also effed up the same in Sri Lanka,where their interlocutors enjoyed the fleshpots of paradise courtesy the LTTE! The GOSL was suckered into taking Norwegian help.

Russia today is taking a cue from the old adage of Chairman Moa: "My enemy's enemy is my friend",why it humours China,but as far as India is concerned,the relationship has always been on a much higher level,with India always getting superior arms,etc.When the US has got its backsid elicked in Syria-where its benami the IS has been blown to smithereens by the Russians,Syrians and Iranian militias,is amazed that we're placing so much emphasis on the Indo-Pacific "Quad" led by a "declining power",the US,when Russia and Putin has showed how to do the biz. in Syria,the UKR and will do elsewhere in the ME .Libya being the next port of call! In fact our For. Sec. has today warned about "fixed positions" in Indian diplomacy,with regard to the Quad,etc.,as realisation has dawned about the limitations of US power and influence and despite enormous military technical superiority over its principla rivals,it cannot win wars and exercise the erstwhile "Pax Americana" of the 20th century any more.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/r ... 604985.ece
Xcpts:
A week after joining the first official-level meeting of the new quadrilateral grouping in the Asia Pacific region, India on Monday stressed that it will avoid rigid geopolitical alliances. :rotfl:
Launching a new policy-oriented club for diplomats, Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar reaffirmed India’s expanding commitments internationally and said that in view of the global uncertainties, India will have an “open-minded approach” to international politics.

“It is important to recognise that we are in a period of major transition, where many of the assumptions that guided our thinking in the past are no longer valid. This calls for a more open minded approach in international politics where there are less fixed points and more flexible combinations. Our earlier mindset of broadening our options in a structured work must give way to the understanding that rigidity of positions and alliances no longer hold and we ourselves are one of the poles,” said Mr. Jaishankar.

He was speaking at the launch of the PHD Ambassadors Club here, which will be serve as a platform for former Indian envoys and resident foreign envoys to interact and cooperate on hard and soft diplomatic issues.

Cautionary position

Mr. Jaishankar said in the current order, optimal use of human resource alone can boost a country’s standing. In that direction, the PHD Ambassadors Club was an initiative where diplomacy would converge with commercial goals of Indian foreign affairs.

The Foreign Secretary’s comments about the alliances indicate that India will continue to adopt a cautionary position regarding the budding groupings and alliances in the morphing world order.

This is the second time in a week that the top diplomat of India has sounded a note of caution in international affairs. A day after the first quadrilateral meeting in Manila, Mr. Jaishankar had downplayed the meeting, arguing that the alliance was one of the many such groupings that India had recently participated in.
:mrgreen:

Instability
He explained that the position was borne out of the Indian analysis of recent history, where the end of the Cold War was followed by the subsequent rise of the Asian powers like China and India and the more recent ‘recalibration’ of the Western powers that were going through a phase of instability and change.


http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ar/940921/
World going through major transition, rigid positions, alliances things of past: S Jaishankar
The evolving world order has no place for rigid positions and alliances, Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar said today, pitching for flexibility in international politics.
By: PTI | New Delhi

S Jaishankar, Foreign Secretary, international politics, Ambassadors Club, climate change, asia, PHD Chamber of Commerce and Industry Jaishankar touched upon this aspect in his speech, saying the conduct of diplomacy is increasingly dependent on economic capabilities. (PTI)
ow
Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar said it is vital to recognise that the world is going through a period of “major transition” where many of the assumptions that guided our thinking in the past are “no longer valid”. He said that the evolving world order has no place for rigid positions and alliances.”Rigidity of positions and alliances no longer hold and we ourselves are increasingly one of the poles. The dichotomy between bilateral and multilateral must also accommodate the reality of the need for the plurilateral,” he said. “This calls for a nimbler and more open-minded approach to international politics where there are less fixed points and more flexible combinations. The foreign secretary was addressing the launch of an ‘Ambassadors’ Club’, an initiative by the PHD Chamber of Commerce and Industry, via video-conference.
The trade chamber said the club has been envisaged as an open-ended discussion forum involving diplomats and business houses. Jaishankar touched upon this aspect in his speech, saying the conduct of diplomacy is increasingly dependent on economic capabilities and their effective deployment while contending that the “growing stature” of India is an outcome of its economic progress. “A real partnership between diplomacy and business is important not only for the benefits to the economy but also in enhancing access and building brand abroad,” he said. He said a new set of global issues is shaping the world and building of “new connectivity” in Asia, “its principles and ownership”, was one such factor that will dominate Asia. He identified climate change, and terror, which he said is still approached in many quarters in an “opportunistic manner”, as two other key factors.


*IN fact he has mentioned ( we are one of the poles) what I've been advocating for av.long time,that India must develop with friends an "India-Centric" diplomatic doctrine ,where our interests and those of the littoral IOR nations in particular,converge ,with India taking the lead role.We must not be "attachments" to any US led mil. alliance in the Indo-Pacific,but acquire the mil. capacity to deal with China from diverse sources and spurring domestic industry,by ourselves without having to call "Uncle..Sam!"

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 25 Nov 2017 23:37

Vladimir Putin's Christian Faith - in his own words


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 01 Dec 2017 12:09

Russia to help India set up crisis management centre
Posted on 29/11/2017 by Dailyexcelsior

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/russia-he ... nt-centre/
MOSCOW, Nov 28:
Russia will assist India to set up a national crisis management centre in the country to handle disaster and other emergency situations.
This was agreed during a meeting between Home Minister Rajnath Singh and Russian Minister for Emergency Situations Vladimir Puchkov here today.
Both sides agreed that EMERCOM of Russia would cooperate with India in the establishment of the National Crisis Management Centre (NCMC) in India, an official statement said.

Singh held detailed discussions with Puchkov on cooperation in disaster management. They reviewed the progress made on the agreement on disaster management signed in 2010.

They also agreed on a programme of training of specialists and sharing of each other’s experiences as well as best practices in the field of Disaster Management, the statement said.

The two leaders later signed a joint implementation plan for 2018-19 for cooperation in disaster management.

Singh also met Nikolai Patrushev, secretary, Security Council of Russian Federation yesterday.

During the meeting, both sides reinforced their determination to further strengthen their cooperation in the sectors of security and counter-terrorism.

They also reviewed the implementation of the agreement on information security signed in October 2016. Both sides also welcomed the ongoing cooperation and the regular exchange of visits between the two National Security Councils.

During his three-day visit to Russia, Singh will visit the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation and hold talks with its Director Alexander Bortnikov.
Later, he will attend a reception organised by the Indian community. (PTI)


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