India-Russia: News & Analysis

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9933
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 19 Apr 2018 11:28

X Posted from the International Aerospace thread. An opportunity for India to acquire rocket engine technology?

After conceding her Eastern periphery including those in the formerly Soviet controlled Central Asian Republics to the Peoples Republic of China and playing Guran to the PRC’s Phantom, Russia does a repeat with regards to the commercial space launch business as the reality of Russia’s decline from Soviet heydays not just relative but the US but the Peoples Republic of China, hits hard resulting in face saving spin from Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

"The share of launch vehicles is as small as 4% percent of the overall market of space services. The 4% stake isn’t worth the effort to try to elbow Musk and China aside,"


From Tass:

Russian deputy PM sees no reason for competing with Musk on launch vehicles market

And more on the same from Ars Technica:

Russia appears to have surrendered to SpaceX in the global launch market

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2018 12:11

HE is right Launch market is not the major money earner but Satellite and other services , there is no point in competing as major player in launch segment , They still do 30 launches in a year but commercially its not a major revenue earner compared to payload and other services.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2018 12:21

These days US officials at all level are openly threatening India to break or lower its relations with Russia in a very subtle way , this one one from US PACOM chief

US Pacific Command chief seeks to break down Russia's influence in India

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9933
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 19 Apr 2018 17:50

On April 11 per a terse statement put out on the official website of the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin had a telecon with our Prime Minister at our request. That being the case I hope it was about conveying our disgruntlement about Russia mollycoddling the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic rather than being defensive about our abstention at the OPCW regards the Skripal affair:

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi at the Indian side’s initiative.

April 11, 2018 19:25

The two leaders had a constructive and friendly discussion of several current issues related to developing the privileged strategic partnership between Russia and India.

They agreed to continue contacts.

Clicky


The Russian statement appears to be garrulous compared to what was put by our MEA and PMO which was nothing. The Q&A session of the MEA Weekly Media Briefing of April 12 was if anything evasive:

Question: We saw a release from the Kremlin regarding the talks between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President. What transpired, can you give us a read out or something?

Official Spokesperson, Shri Raveesh Kumar: At this stage that is what I can share which is mentioned in the release by Kremlin today. It says that all matters of mutual interest have been discussed and at this stage I don’t have any further details. When we have I will share it on the group.

Question: When was this held?

Official Spokesperson, Shri Raveesh Kumar: The telephonic conversation took place yesterday on 11 April, 2018.


Question: You just mentioned the telephonic conversation between PM Modi and President Putin yesterday. Britain is interested in naming Russia in CHOGM, which India is opposing. In the light of this could you just let us know whether this issue is being discussed at that level so far or at any level, has Russia sought to explain its position to India or chose to keep it informed about what is happening?

Official Spokesperson, Shri Raveesh Kumar: There are two issues involved. One of course is on the telephonic conversation between PM and President Putin. I have already shared beyond what has been put out by Kremlin. I don’t have much information but on the incident itself I would like to give a response and I would like to read this out. India is against the use of chemical weapons anywhere at any time by anybody under any circumstances. We hope that this issue is resolved in accordance with the Chemical Weapons Convention so as to reach evidence based conclusion. India, as all other countries awaits the outcome of the investigation.

Question Contd.: I had also asked you about this issue of reported move by Britain to name the Chair of CHOGM which India ……

Official Spokesperson, Shri Raveesh Kumar: We will have a briefing after this. I think the question can be addressed to the Jt. Secretary who is dealing with the issue.


For the MEA Weekly Briefing click below:

Clicky

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 19 Apr 2018 19:08

Austin wrote:
Prem wrote:I think Russian now fear that French have agreed to help India in Nuke Sub thus making Moscow lose major leverage to exploit $india.


In theory yes but practically any Western country including the french has not given any thing substantial in transfer of technology to India , No single JV has come up to any success , Snecma help in kaveri is a work in progress for a long time , with US the situation is more worse. Yes there will be lot of noise but West wont share any technology with India as has been their policy for decades.


You just cannot compare how the West dealt with India earlier to how it will do in the future. India was a basket case then but now given the china/Russia combine factor, India's growing economic GDP with its market size being in the "BIG THREE" in all sectors has its own dynamics. India India's growing defence budget which will hit $150 Billion very soon will have a major effect on how business is done. With mid size countries like Korea, Brazil, Israel and South Africa offering competing products to high end and expensive western produced ones, the later will have to tie up with India to remain cost competitive and set up base in India.

while US will not be relied on by India, offer from and negotiations for strategic technology with France will act as a pointer to Russia and is required to firmly put the Vodka guzzlers in its place or else it is welcome to go tango with the Malsic forces.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 19 Apr 2018 21:41

Austin wrote:...
While russia has to be sensitive not to sell any arms that would in any way impact india negatively


Heck, let them sell as much as they want and pakis can afford. Let pakis deal with lack of service, serviceability, delays, parts and and the Russian sense of entitlement.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 19 Apr 2018 21:44

On another subject, this article in the Diplomat seems to be 'fake news' right out of the Internet Research Agency:

"India and Russia are expected to conclude an agreement for the construction of four Admiral Grigorovich-class (Project 11356) guided-missile frigates destined for service in the Indian Navy in June, according to information obtained by Russian state media."

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/india-t ... om-russia/

Why the IN would want to buy these which are half the size of Shivaliks, I have no clue. This deal has been hanging on for the last 4 years.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20851
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 19 Apr 2018 22:12

This was on last night:
Russia in India
‏@RusEmbIndia
#India-#Russia Relation Encompasses Spiritual, Cultural Ties: Russian Ambassador Nikolay #Kudashev - Sputnik https://goo.gl/D5hG5y
@mfa_russia @MEAIndia @IndEmbMoscow @IndianDiplomacy @PTI_News @ANI @DDNewsLive

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 19 Apr 2018 22:19

I thought that the recent IAF exercises where MKIs had a 90% availability factor has put paid to whingeing about service, spares, etc.Yes, they were/are an issue but it is being steadily whittled down by the setting up of service centres equipped with critical spares in India. As seen at hhe DEFEXPO, more such agreements were signed.

As for the FFGs we've wanted these extras for over 5 years! Our yards are full with orders and long lead time for completion is affecting the IN's replacement and expansion plans. These FFGs carry a sizeable punch for their size especially after BMos has been installed.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 19 Apr 2018 22:59

Vips wrote:
Austin wrote:
In theory yes but practically any Western country including the french has not given any thing substantial in transfer of technology to India , No single JV has come up to any success , Snecma help in kaveri is a work in progress for a long time , with US the situation is more worse. Yes there will be lot of noise but West wont share any technology with India as has been their policy for decades.


You just cannot compare how the West dealt with India earlier to how it will do in the future. India was a basket case then but now given the china/Russia combine factor, India's growing economic GDP with its market size being in the "BIG THREE" in all sectors has its own dynamics. India India's growing defence budget which will hit $150 Billion very soon will have a major effect on how business is done. With mid size countries like Korea, Brazil, Israel and South Africa offering competing products to high end and expensive western produced ones, the later will have to tie up with India to remain cost competitive and set up base in India.

while US will not be relied on by India, offer from and negotiations for strategic technology with France will act as a pointer to Russia and is required to firmly put the Vodka guzzlers in its place or else it is welcome to go tango with the Malsic forces.


Seeing is Beliving , I have been hearing since last 1 decade of West Helping India becoming Super Power and transferring technology and nothing materialized till date.

All this is hopeless hava baazi .....West wont give any thing to India that is of significant to them much less helping in Strategic Programs , All they do is give something when DRDO develops so that the program goes into comatose .........I will wait for the day and time when West gives India any thing significant in Transfer of Technology as I have been waiting for a decade now :roll:

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 20 Apr 2018 03:04

Again no comparison, 10 years back our economic size was small and will be truly itsy bitsy in another 10 when our defence budget alone would be $150 Billion plus. Lot of polluted waters would have passed under a lot of rickety bridges by then so we will see....

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 20 Apr 2018 04:42

^^ What technology has Russia actually transferred to us? Can we take the deep ToT SU-30MKI and build it into the SU35? Russians held us back on the the Brahmos integration with the MKI. refused to share Ramjet/seeker tech with us. Sold us crap on the MiG 29K and the Vik, Trying to sell us on the SU57 that Russian AF will only buy 12 of.

It's all make in Russia and sell to us idiots

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 04:53

Refit yes, but these are trials. The article is more about the attitude during the actual trials and not giving the IN crew sufficient training.

In the latest IN Quarterdeck, there is a recollection of the INs first Russian subs. The Indians were literally given no training and told to lump it.

The SOP was made entirely by the Indian crew themselves.

The same issue also has an account of the Chakra transfer. It says the crews and knowledge transfer was comprehensive.

In short, the Russians vary between competence and severe arrogance. There seems to be very little standardization and trainees have to lump it.

Regarding the refit itself, the Russians may have had good personal relations with the Indian teams but on a program level it was a saga of huge mismanagement and led to a lot of bad blood, much political capital was involved in salvaging the entire mess.

Rudradev wrote:
Karan M wrote:No fan of the author, but even he wouldnt have the cojones to make up a story like this.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/europe/ ... 2013-11-17



The author has 400% made it up.

My first cousin, then a Lt. Cdr. and helicopter pilot, was stationed at Severodvensk for 3 years as part of the IN team supervising the Vikramaditya refit. He never once had a bad thing to say about his Russian counterparts, or the process, or any of it.

The forces on both sides are highly professional, and respectful of each other. Any $crewing around is being done at the Kremlin/South-Bloc level.

Oh by the way his family went and stayed with him the whole time. His kid (with other IN kids) went to a school where they had Indian teachers teaching English and Indian languages, and Russian teachers instructing in other subjects in Russian medium. Good for the boy, he learned a foreign language fluently in the process. He also had opportunities there (particularly in coaching for sports, which he is very keen on) that he would never have had here.

Just saying.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 04:56

The issue is not merely one of mark up. But one wherein the Russians deliberately delay programs and TOT in order to sell us more finished units and spares. The T-90 deal is one such example. Also, despite paying huge amounts we often get sub-standard gear. The MiG-29K is another example. While the CAG laid open the entire serviceability fracas plus the fact the IN asked MiG to rectify things but got no answer, MiG was releasing advertorials about its glorious contribution to the IN. In a perfect smokescreen, the media went hammer and tongs about the IN rejecting the LCA but the real story was why did the IN need new fighters in the first place despite the MiG-29K.

Avarachan wrote:By the way, for those talking about the high cost of Russian spare-parts (a mark-up of 600-800%), it's common for the mark-up from European companies to the U.S. government to be similar.

The solution to this issue is for the Indian military-industrial complex to indigenize, as Saurav Jha says ... It is not financially possible to build a large, top-tier military with a significant percentage of imported weapons.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 05:02

Avarachan wrote:Thanks for standing up for the truth, Rudradev. It is a major objective of Western Deep State agents to weaken the Indo-Russian strategic partnership. They're using their assets in the English-language media towards that end.


I sincerely question whether any deep state agents were responsible for the Russians gypping India on the T-90 deal, on the Smerch deal, or providing the Su-30 MKI with a half finished avionics suite, which now needs Indian ingenuity to rectify (neither Israeli nor Russian pods worked). Nor does it appear to be US interference which is causing the IAF to be so skeptical of the PAKFA that they prefer an earlier generation Rafale instead. Basically, the Russians treated us like a captive market. MiGs contemptuous behavior towards IAF concerns during the time when MiG-21s had a very high attrition rate is well known. They called a press conference to mock the IAF. It is all this frustration with slip shod gear and poor serviceability that is boiling over. And most of the things Russia gives us, including nuke subs, France would too, its just that we cannot afford it (yet). But one day we will, and that means the clock is ticking on the Indo-Russian relationship built around weapon sales unless it becomes really strategic. And Russia is more and more dependent on the lizard.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 05:09

Austin wrote:
Prem wrote:I think Russian now fear that French have agreed to help India in Nuke Sub thus making Moscow lose major leverage to exploit $india.


In theory yes but practically any Western country including the french has not given any thing substantial in transfer of technology to India , No single JV has come up to any success , Snecma help in kaveri is a work in progress for a long time , with US the situation is more worse. Yes there will be lot of noise but West wont share any technology with India as has been their policy for decades.


You are mistaken, before the US-NATO secrecy stuff kicked in, during the 1980s Indian teams got a whole lot of tech from European partners and we got tons of real know how for fighters, tanks etc from the UK. The basic issue is this, money. If you have tons of it, everyone will whistle, look the other way, and slip you a nice package of tech under, above, around the table, somehow. If all you can afford due to Nehruvian socialism are friendship prices, then Russia it is. Offer the French enough, they will gladly even give you the keys to most things on the Rafale, question is whether we can ever afford it, because the French will tacitly use us to finance their next gen programs. Instead it makes much more sense to do a deep namaste to French, Russians whatever and grow our own bread and eat our own dal roti.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 05:10

Great find.

Austin wrote:
Avarachan wrote:By the way, for those talking about the high cost of Russian spare-parts (a mark-up of 600-800%), it's common for the mark-up from European companies to the U.S. government to be similar.

The solution to this issue is for the Indian military-industrial complex to indigenize, as Saurav Jha says ... It is not financially possible to build a large, top-tier military with a significant percentage of imported weapons.


Most of what is written is driven by Media Perception than Reality , If Media write India-Russia relation is bad then it just revebrates , Most of this Journos are on US Corporate payscale as they then enjoy free trip to US and other assignment.

When Ajai Shukla says at Def Expo Nirma Sitharaman ignored the Russian booth completely and went ahead and checked others and then he made a big story from it quoting again an unnamed Russian Source , I showed him the pic of MOD Nirmala visiting Defexpo booth of UVZ and he did not bother to reply or correct his report

Image

https://vpk.name/news/212365_ministru_o ... i_uvz.html

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 20 Apr 2018 08:54

Karan , Ajai Shukla is a biased critique of Modi government not just in writing but if you see him on TV chat show mostly on NDTV is has nothing good to say about Modi or MOD.

He is also anti-Russian and wont leave any opportunity to write against it , Else who would write a para about US PACOM chief has to say to US congress , There are dime a dozen thing Chief says at US Congress hearing at Congress hearing every one wants to Sound John Rambo else they wont be appointed for the job.

He is very pro-Biased to US , He goes to the extent of calling on IAF chief when IAF chief said they were not evaluating F-35 , His twitter says its unofficially and chides the Air Chief

All in All Expect Shukla to rant about Modi and its policy , rant about Russia and keep putting pro-US article and twist it in a way that suits his agenda ........ MOD has all but shunned him and he writes his epic rant using unknown sources

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 20 Apr 2018 14:57

here is a gem from Shree Ajai Shukla aka US Liffafa agent

Ajai gripe against Namo

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/9 ... 4335981570

The only surprising thing in this blatant attempt to control the media is that @narendramodi has taken almost 4 years to do so. By now, all those who will be intimidated are already grovelling... and those who aren't kowtowing yet will never do so anyway.

After he keep harping IAF should buy F-35 and IAF chief denied this he write in this blog http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... a-5082304/

Ajai Shukla was the one who wrote IAF interested in F-35 requested for classified briefing http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2018/02/capability-jump-iaf-looks-to-buy-fifth.html

When IAF chief denied that IAF was interested in F-35 he writes in this blog

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/969035810791190533

@ajaishukla
IAF chief says "no official request made for F-35". As they say... no report is true until it has been officially denied! Pity the reporter didn't press him on whether the IAF has unofficially opened a conversation with Lockheed Martin on F-35 for IAF.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 20 Apr 2018 17:22

Cosmo_R wrote:On another subject, this article in the Diplomat seems to be 'fake news' right out of the Internet Research Agency:

"India and Russia are expected to conclude an agreement for the construction of four Admiral Grigorovich-class (Project 11356) guided-missile frigates destined for service in the Indian Navy in June, according to information obtained by Russian state media."

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/india-t ... om-russia/

Why the IN would want to buy these which are half the size of Shivaliks, I have no clue. This deal has been hanging on for the last 4 years.


Image

The Baltic Shipyard Yantar was visited by the Director General of Procurement of the Ministry of Defense of India, Apurva Chandra. He arrived in Russia to get acquainted with the enterprises of the defense-industrial complex of the Russian Federation and conduct negotiations on promising projects of military-technical cooperation.

At the Yantar plant in Kaliningrad, a tall guest arrived after visiting the National Center for Helicopter Industry in the Moscow Region. "The key Indian-Russian project that we discussed in Kaliningrad was the continuation of the construction for the Navy of India of the frigates of the project 11356. I would like to note the fact that the Russian side has always made every effort to clearly fulfill its obligations" , - said Apurva Chandra.


"We are pleased to receive such a representative delegation of the Ministry of Defense of India and to demonstrate to our partners the unique capabilities of Russian shipbuilding enterprises for the creation of naval equipment, including the well-known frigates of Project 11356," said Alexander Mikheev, Director General of Rosoboronexport. "The saturated program of Mr. Chandra's visit speaks of the Indian party's high interest in the progressive development of current and promising Russian-Indian projects in the military-technical sphere as a whole."


"The multi-purpose frigates of Project 11356 are reliable warships that Indian seamen have known for almost two decades. The weapons of these ships include the BrahMos missiles jointly developed by our countries. The Baltic Shipyard is ready to actively participate in the further development of the Russian-Indian technology partnership, including the Make-in-India program, ensuring the production of frigates of this project at one of the shipyards in India. Now we are waiting for the corresponding decision of our Indian colleagues. Specialists of the plant are ready to leave to fulfill this important mission on demand, "said Yandar's General Director Eduard Efimov.


In the coming days, the Indian delegation will visit a number of other enterprises in the North-Western and Volga federal districts.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cosmo_R » 20 Apr 2018 17:29

^^^and why would we want these when we could build more P17As ?

"Now we are waiting for the corresponding decision of our Indian colleagues."

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 20 Apr 2018 17:57

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:
In theory yes but practically any Western country including the french has not given any thing substantial in transfer of technology to India , No single JV has come up to any success , Snecma help in kaveri is a work in progress for a long time , with US the situation is more worse. Yes there will be lot of noise but West wont share any technology with India as has been their policy for decades.


You are mistaken, before the US-NATO secrecy stuff kicked in, during the 1980s Indian teams got a whole lot of tech from European partners and we got tons of real know how for fighters, tanks etc from the UK. The basic issue is this, money. If you have tons of it, everyone will whistle, look the other way, and slip you a nice package of tech under, above, around the table, somehow. If all you can afford due to Nehruvian socialism are friendship prices, then Russia it is. Offer the French enough, they will gladly even give you the keys to most things on the Rafale, question is whether we can ever afford it, because the French will tacitly use us to finance their next gen programs. Instead it makes much more sense to do a deep namaste to French, Russians whatever and grow our own bread and eat our own dal roti.


Karanji i would rather give France money to finance their next generation programs then to Russia. At least the French products will have better availability rates and not be spending its time in Hangars/Pens/Berths/Assembly/Overhaul workshops and waiting for spares to arrive. Other advantage is we will have support of France in the UN (not influenced by uncle sam in strategic matters) which is not guaranteed from Russia as it now takes its cue from China.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 18:13

Austin, we should be just glad that gentleman isnt in any GOI related post anymore. Imagine the damage he could have done with his partisan bias. Very egotistical and petty behavior. Constantly seeks to take petty revenge. Because rtd IAF guys countered him on some of his claims on HTT-40 on a TV show, he made it a point to run down the IAF's war fighting performance.

If IAF still goes for FGFA, somebody should shove that article in his face. He is busy claiming Doval personally torpedoed the deal based on IAF objections.

Vips, the problem is to maintain those impeccable service rates, the amount the French will charge us will be an wheel and a door and then the entire car itself. They themselves can barely maintain a 46% availability rate for their Rafale fleet and are busy packing up units to save costs. The French just price themselves out of deals. The Israelis offer the moon, and every now and then deliver solid lemons which need a lot of elbow grease to solve (Crystal Maze till it was rectified, Radar recce pods, Harop etc).

Also, the French are also keen to sanctimoniously preach to us about religious tolerance while turning a nelsons eye to anti Hindu bigotry. During MMS's time, they even summoned the Indian ambassador to give him gyaan about Indian internal affairs.

One thing I respect the Russians for is they haven't been so petty, at least to my knowledge, and are not poking their nose in our internal affairs or running an overt religious agenda with respect to India. Unkil, Euros, French all have that nasty streak of Hinduphobia running through their establishment and they take every chance to rake it up, or interfere in our internal matters in a nasty partisan matter.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9933
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 20 Apr 2018 18:35

Austin wrote: ............... When Ajai Shukla says at Def Expo Nirma Sitharaman ignored the Russian booth completely and went ahead and checked others and then he made a big story from it quoting again an unnamed Russian Source , I showed him the pic of MOD Nirmala visiting Defexpo booth of UVZ and he did not bother to reply or correct his report

..........Image Snipped............

https://vpk.name/news/212365_ministru_o ... i_uvz.html


Nice bit of ferreting Austin 8)

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 930
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 20 Apr 2018 18:37

^^Russians have also been tough on Hindu groups in Russia. They have been particularly nasty with ISKCON and its followers.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17279
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby chetak » 20 Apr 2018 20:05

Vips wrote:^^Russians have also been tough on Hindu groups in Russia. They have been particularly nasty with ISKCON and its followers.


Sirji,

That's neither here nor there.

If we are worried about conversions, so are they. Their russian orthodox church runs separate, even from the vatican and they don't even like/allow the pope to visit them.

To each, his own, no??

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17279
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby chetak » 20 Apr 2018 20:16

arun wrote:
Austin wrote: ............... When Ajai Shukla says at Def Expo Nirma Sitharaman ignored the Russian booth completely and went ahead and checked others and then he made a big story from it quoting again an unnamed Russian Source , I showed him the pic of MOD Nirmala visiting Defexpo booth of UVZ and he did not bother to reply or correct his report

..........Image Snipped............

https://vpk.name/news/212365_ministru_o ... i_uvz.html


Nice bit of ferreting Austin 8)


this guy has all the right shady connections to make it big as an arms dealer/middleman shyster.

He has deep hooks into the right family and the lootyens mafia cabal too.

Pity is, its a mafia cabal/family that the current dispensation is very very allergic to, resulting in the enforced vanvaas and the physical banishment/blacklisting from the official MOD circles, which has led to lack of credibility among the movers and shakers in the arms dealing ecosystem


hence his perpetual and extreme burnol initiated animosity and the resulting acid reflux verbiage, speaking presstitute wise, of course. He also has previous press and current baboo(n) connections which he leverages and the other presstitutes are wary of him, in case another party returns to power

certainly not an officer and a gentleman, not by a long shot.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 21:59

Vips wrote:^^Russians have also been tough on Hindu groups in Russia. They have been particularly nasty with ISKCON and its followers.


Within Russia - they support Orthodox Christianity as a state religion more or less, and lets face it, Russia does have a deep streak of xenophobia as well.

What I am talking of, is Russia not exporting that to India.

Thats the difference between them and the meddlesome jokers from the west. They are not only equally hard on other faiths within (window dressing apart, we can get see how their establishment thinks each time NYT, WaPo, Economist, Telegraph etc report on India, let alone their actions themselves) but also openly seek to make India into mini versions of themselves, with hinduphobia as a key element of their foreign policy.

Russia is not hosting 24/7 soirees in Delhi with all sorts of Lutyens creeps or NGOs attending, like the way the rest of these countries do.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15472
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 20 Apr 2018 22:03

I fully hope Indo-Russian ties remain strong, and we need Russia as an ally to counter our over dependence on the fickle and bigoted establishments elsewhere. But equally, I hope Russia also pays heed to Indian concerns over spares and real co-development and does not act as PRC's spokesperson.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 21 Apr 2018 13:54

MOD Delegation lead by Mr Apurva Chandra visited Almaz Antey indurstial park at St Petersburg

Image
Image
Image

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3167485.html

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 21 Apr 2018 20:07

Ajai Shukla once again peddling F-35

Ajai Shukla

@ajaishukla
Following Following @ajaishukla
More
The Indo-Russian 5th-Gen fighter is dead. National Security Advisor Ajit Doval asks the Russians to go ahead on their own. The door has opened a chink (no puns please!) for the F-35 Lightning II's prospects in India. One more link with Russia is cut.

with Doval and Modi on his scope https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/9 ... 1991803905


@ajaishukla
Following Following @ajaishukla
More Ajai Shukla Retweeted Rajat Pandit

In any self-respecting private firm, employees responsible for such a demonstrably failed policy would have been sacked long ago. But the architects of this LoC stalemate -- Doval and Modi --- remain ensconced in their offices. It is left to the voters to act in India's interest.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 21 Apr 2018 20:14

Karan M wrote:I fully hope Indo-Russian ties remain strong, and we need Russia as an ally to counter our over dependence on the fickle and bigoted establishments elsewhere. But equally, I hope Russia also pays heed to Indian concerns over spares and real co-development and does not act as PRC's spokesperson.


Likely difficult with India under US pressure on India which they dont even hide to mention


US Pacific Command chief seeks to break down Russia's influence in India

Suresh S
BRFite
Posts: 641
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 22:19

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Suresh S » 21 Apr 2018 21:22

Indian media is not as bad as american media but pretty close. It is Full of traitorous scum like shuklas/pandits who will sell their mothers for 5 dollars.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 22 Apr 2018 12:29

U.S. raises Russia bogey with India

India and the U.S. are engaged in senior-level consultations over recent American sanctions against Russian entities, even as two visiting U.S. defence officials have told New Delhi that India is not fully immune to the sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

However, the government is unfazed, multiple government sources told The Hindu. Even Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had visited Moscow to discuss a slew of defence deals, including the S-400 air-defence missile systems.

P.S. Raghavan, Convener, National Security Advisory Board, told The Hindu that the U.S. could not seek to sustain a strategic partnership with India while trying to weaken India at the same time. “CAATSA is aimed at every country that has military and energy connections with Russia. And while the U.S. may claim it has a strategic motive, it cannot deny it has strong commercial objectives behind it. Basically, the U.S. is saying don’t go to them [Russia], come to us [U.S.],” Mr. Raghavan, a former Indian Ambassador to Russia, said.

A senior military source said that India had conveyed to the U.S. at various levels its concerns about the implications of U.S. sanctions against several Russian entities involved in military supplies to India. “Both at the Foreign Secretary level and in the U.S., we have conveyed our stand that the sanctions cannot impinge on our relations with Russia, especially military acquisitions,” he said. Discussions, he said, are continuing.

On January 29, the U.S. began imposing sanctions on foreign companies under section 231of CAATSA for transactions made with Russian defence and intelligence sector. “There is far more at risk at strategic level for the U.S., and they acknowledge that,” the military source said.

Russia is India’s biggest arms supplier to India, accounting for 62% of acquisitions in the past five years, according to latest estimates.

“U.S. can’t offer anything that can compare to the S-400 (air defence missile system) for India. Add to that, its processes are much more complicated. While the Russian government’s nod allows the contract to proceed, in the U.S., the private companies have hesitations, the U.S. Congress, the DoD, State department, White House etc can object and scuttle any deal,” Ambassador Raghavan said

U.S. Position

The Hindu has learnt that since February, at least two senior U.S. defence officials have conveyed to India in no uncertain terms that India would not be immune to the proposed sanctions under CAATSA.

According to Section 231 of CAATSA, any country or entity that carries out “transactions with the intelligence or defence sectors” of the Russian government would face sanctions from the U.S.

The MEA declined to comment on what India’s response to the warnings was. However, it is understood that Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra have both raised strenuous objections to the U.S. proposal in their bilateral meetings. The Indian embassy in Washington DC remains engaged on the issue, military sources said.

“We totally appreciate Indian’s concerns. It was raised in discussions during senior level meetings last month. We are very concerned because we very much hope to maintain the momentum and the trajectory of this relationship. We want to deepen our cooperation and not reduce it,” Joe Felter, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for South and Southeast Asia, told PTI in an interview earlier this month.

The new U.S. Pacific Commander nominee Admiral Philip Davidson also counselled a senate hearing against penalising India for its defence ties with Russia.

However, the expressions of understanding may not cut much ice with the Indian establishment.

New Delhi is unfazed


A senior MOD source pointed out that if U.S. seeks to unsettle India-Russia ties it wouldn’t mean the U.S. will gain out of it through arms deals. “Today we have multiple options, from France to Israel. It would be better for the U.S. not to try and scuttle our strongest military ties,” he said.

The official pointed out that there was no great urgency to sign any deal with Russia now. “We will proceed at our pace, and none of our negotiations are keeping in mind the U.S. sanctions,” he said.

He said the deal for S-400 Triumf air defence system, at over $4.5 billion, is “not as close to signing” as media is speculating. The deal for the advanced S-400 could turn out to be a test case about how U.S. will react with its sanctions on India’s defence purchases from Russia. However, that may not be the only deal.

Several Russian military entities that have deep business ties with India are on the sanctions list. They include Rosoboronexport, Rostec (Russian Technologies State Corporation), Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG, Russian Helicopters, Sukhoi Aviation, Tactical Missiles Corporation, Tupolev, United Aircraft Corporation, United Engine Corporation, United Shipbuilding Corporation etc. “That is an exhaustive list of key companies which have been supplying Indian military,” an MOD official said.

Adding to the strain between India and U.S. is India’s recent refusal to schedule separate Defence Minister talks with the U.S, after the “2+2” dialogue for Foreign and Defence Ministers scheduled for Mid-April had to be put off after U.S. President Donald Trump sacked his secretary of state Rex Tillerson. Mr. Tillerson’s replacement Mike Pompeo’ confirmation process is still on, and no date can be set until he is appointed as Secretary of State.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 22 Apr 2018 16:23

Another former For. Sec. MKI, described it as " diplomacy by blackmail".Keep on at it Yanqui yobs, your true colours are blowing in the wind.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9933
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby arun » 22 Apr 2018 18:46

Austin wrote:U.S. raises Russia bogey with India

.............{Rest Snipped}................



“We will proceed at our pace, and none of our negotiations are keeping in mind the U.S. sanctions,”.

The above is 800% the way for our country India to progress deals with Russia or Iran or Venezuela or any other country the US may have a disagreement with and any imposition of sanctions by the US owing to any of their local laws on India’s relations with third countries is to be strongly counter-attacked.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19531
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 23 Apr 2018 20:39

The PM's visit to China is going to be a game-changing summit between the two leaders of the world's most populous nations.In the announced mano-a- mano closed door meetings between the two, without aides, there is going to be some frank talk and I expect a reboot of Indo- Sino relations based upon common causes, which will water down India's participation in the so-called Quad group.

Some time ago Russia supposedly told India that it needed to talk to China and resolve its differences mutually. We have dallied and flirted with the US to an extent, but the relationship never made it to the " home plate " , if you get my drift! If India and China make a breakthrough to resolve or at least freeze for "99" years, issues where both are at loggerheads, Russia will also benefit given its close ties with both and the magnetic pull of an informal "triad", may become irresistible.

nits
BRFite
Posts: 881
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby nits » 23 Apr 2018 20:44

Philip wrote:The PM's visit to China is going to be a game-changing summit between the two leaders of the world's most populous nations.In the announced mano-a- mano closed door meetings between the two, without aides


Both know english as common language i presume

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21824
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 23 Apr 2018 22:15

Some oldie trams on display

Photos: Parade of Moscow trams in Moscow

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/106328/

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6875
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 24 Apr 2018 01:52

Philip wrote:The PM's visit to China is going to be a game-changing summit between the two leaders of the world's most populous nations.In the announced mano-a- mano closed door meetings between the two, without aides, there is going to be some frank talk and I expect a reboot of Indo- Sino relations based upon common causes, which will water down India's participation in the so-called Quad group.

Some time ago Russia supposedly told India that it needed to talk to China and resolve its differences mutually. We have dallied and flirted with the US to an extent, but the relationship never made it to the " home plate " , if you get my drift! If India and China make a breakthrough to resolve or at least freeze for "99" years, issues where both are at loggerheads, Russia will also benefit given its close ties with both and the magnetic pull of an informal "triad", may become irresistible.


Russia is a nobody compared to China having only 1/8 the GDP. China will use them to their advantage and there is nothing to gain by India joining such a triad. China is an enemy of India, but at the same time India has become reliant on Chinese goods. A future non nationalist GoI may decide to become a Chinese satellite country if India joins such a triad.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests