India-Russia: News & Analysis

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 24 Apr 2018 04:01

Philip wrote:The PM's visit to China is going to be a game-changing summit between the two leaders of the world's most populous nations.In the announced mano-a- mano closed door meetings between the two, without aides, there is going to be some frank talk and I expect a reboot of Indo- Sino relations based upon common causes, which will water down India's participation in the so-called Quad group.

Some time ago Russia supposedly told India that it needed to talk to China and resolve its differences mutually. We have dallied and flirted with the US to an extent, but the relationship never made it to the " home plate " , if you get my drift! If India and China make a breakthrough to resolve or at least freeze for "99" years, issues where both are at loggerheads, Russia will also benefit given its close ties with both and the magnetic pull of an informal "triad", may become irresistible.


So long as China does not shed its anti-india policy to say that we should join them to form what will be an anti-west group is the most foolish idea ever.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Apr 2018 04:34

Vips wrote:
Philip wrote:The PM's visit to China is going to be a game-changing summit between the two leaders of the world's most populous nations.In the announced mano-a- mano closed door meetings between the two, without aides, there is going to be some frank talk and I expect a reboot of Indo- Sino relations based upon common causes, which will water down India's participation in the so-called Quad group.

Some time ago Russia supposedly told India that it needed to talk to China and resolve its differences mutually. We have dallied and flirted with the US to an extent, but the relationship never made it to the " home plate " , if you get my drift! If India and China make a breakthrough to resolve or at least freeze for "99" years, issues where both are at loggerheads, Russia will also benefit given its close ties with both and the magnetic pull of an informal "triad", may become irresistible.


So long as China does not shed its anti-india policy to say that we should join them to form what will be an anti-west group is the most foolish idea ever.
China needs to give up it's little Munna first before India can even entertain such ideas. Last time India did a deal called Panchsheel, we all know how well that worked out.

The one reason why they are so eager to talk might simply be because the pressure from India and it's flirtations with the US and Japanese are making Cheens life uncomfortable. Traditionally they have tended to respond respectfully only when confronted with force. This is probly the reason.

Another reason could be that they are seriously worried about US and it's allies aggressively pushing in the far East and the near East. Maybe they are thinking WW3 might not be too far off.... Alliances are often the precursor to war as was the case in the 20th century.

This time, the side that India tilts on, wins. Let it be written.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 24 Apr 2018 08:20

Yes Russia is a nobody militarily! The Chins are decades behind in many areas of mil science why the lap up Ru milware and try to reverse engineer everything.

But China must realise that it has to square upto India and
decide whether it wants India" inside the tent p*ssing out or outside p*ssing in".This is the Q that Mr.Modi is going to ask XI Gins.China can't have it both ways, aggro in the Himalayas, mischief in the maritime domain and expect India to continue to allow this massive trade deficit and using Pak for its proxy war . Should this unacceptable to India deplorable state of affairs continue, Mr.Modi would do well in emulating the great Chairman's dictum,"my enemy's enemy is my friend"!

What Mr.Modi should do if still in doubt of Chinese intentions, is to further strengthen our traditional political and mil ties with Russia, preventing the Chinese from getting first peck at the best of Ru eqpt., while continuing to engage with the enemies of XI Gins of the West.We need both entities for various reasons to chdckmate China.

Chinese statements and promises at face value are worthless, they lie habitually. See what they've accomplished in the Indo- China Sea. It has to be " trust a little but verify a lot", an improvement on that famous quote by the Gipper.

PS: The statements on the eve of the visit by HH the Dalai Lama are very significant.He has offered China a compromise solution.This is also India's, position we hope.China will try to cut a deal where we sacrifice the Dalai Lama in return for a " post-dated cheque on a failing bank "( Gandhi about Brit .promises).If we stand firm on the Tibetan issue with no compromise, then China will then have to bite the bullet.It is said that China retreats only when they meet steel.They did so when they "met" Gen.Sunderji.Let's hope our man of steel , our PM will bring about a change in China's attitude to India. If not , then we know what we have to do.Use both " T" cards and militarise on a war footing and Chin goods " , return to sender.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 24 Apr 2018 18:21

Whatever we decide to do or not to, Russia has no freaking business asking us to talk to the chinese or get into any camp or grouping.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ramana » 24 Apr 2018 20:04

Philip, its not helpful to look at multilateral geopolitics thru bilateral lens.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 28 Apr 2018 12:28

That is the big Q.Are the Chinese willing to allow India to "wet its beak" in the global eco stakes? The answer is a resounding NO....at this moment.The Chins have to learn the hard way then,and we must remain as hard as stainless steel nails. If I was the PM I would've politely laid on the table with XI Gins,that India was taking measures to reduce the trade imbalance to zero using duties,bans,etc.on Chin goods. That would be the fundamental for all further discussions.China cannot take umbrage at that as they are fighting the US on trade issues too. Everything cannot be in China's favour,all the time.

If we are not ruthless in our national interests we will be devoured by the Chins before we even know it. On this score the PM has the entire country,incl. the Oppn. with him. There is no option for a Panditji-2 boob-boo.

Meanwhile watch how Russia is leveraging every single discovery to its interests.

Putin told about discovery of new Arctic islands as ice cover thins
Society & Culture April 28, 0:20 UTC+3
The islands were identified on satellite images by school students Artyom Makarenko and Viktoria Sayenko

St PETERSBURG, April 27. /TASS/. President Vladimir Putin voice support on Friday for a proposal to give the name Khrustalny [Crystal] to one of the newly discovered islands of the Novaya Zemlya archipelago separating the Barents and Kara seas.

Participants in a session of the Board of Trustees of the Russian Geographic Society told him about two new islands that had been discovered by general school students Artyom Makarenko and Viktoria Sayenko.

The islands reemerged in the process of melting of glaciers near the Novaya Zemlya. They were identified on images obtained with the aid of satellites for remote sounding of the Earth’s crust.

Valeria Sayenko personally told Putin that after the opening of the two islands Russia’s territory had increased by 290,000 sq. km. She also asked the President to give the name Khrustalny to an island in honor of a summer camp, which is part of the world-famous Artek children’s summer recreation facility in Crime.

"I think we’ll meet the request of the discoverers halfway if the trustees don’t have objections," Putin said.

He also asked if other islands might have disappeared after the thickness of ice while the newly discovered ones reemerged from under the ice cover.

Putin quoted an expert assessment saying that accumulation of ice and snow occurs in some areas of the Arctic simultaneously with ice thinning in other areas.

Sayenko said to this that the melting of ice in the Arctic was proceeding at a fast enough pace at present and therefore there was a prospect of discovering more new islands.

http://tass.com/society/1002268

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 01 May 2018 23:11

Just a post for context.

The Russia-to-India arms export relationship is the biggest in the world at $13,419 M (2011-2015). It is ~3X the size of the next biggest bilateral relationship, which is USA-to-KSA ($4,571 M in the same period). As a proportion of the exporter's revenue it is ~38% of all of Russia's arms sales worldwide.

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/mappin ... -customers

Image

Should we imagine that this doesn't give us a disproportionate amount of leverage with Moscow?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ramana » 02 May 2018 02:05

it does but not in the ways you would expect.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 02 May 2018 08:48


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 03 May 2018 11:55

X-posted from the Understand US td.

A well written piece."Mad Dog Mattis" appears to have a better understanding of the tri-nation defence relationship.After all,what difference does it make if Russian arms are used by India to defend itself against China?!

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/opinion ... bazar.html

Of US, Russia & India’s arms bazar
Published May 3, 2018,

For Western arms manufacturers, particularly those from the United States, India is just “waiting to be lapped up”.
US defence secretary James Mattis

America’s defence secretary James Mattis understands military hardware well. A retired Marine general who commanded US troops in southern Afghanistan in the opening weeks of the war in 2001, Mr Mattis sees India as one of the most lucrative and attractive destinations for his country’s defence contractors as he gleefully advised members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. He is clearly trying to reshape the psyche and policy of his country’s political masters when he comments: “India... we probably have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to find more common ground” … “I think it’s there... We don’t have to search hard for it in the sense of creating it. We just have to get an understanding of each other’s interests”.

A profound observation indeed. For Western arms manufacturers, particularly those from the United States, India is just “waiting to be lapped up”. The country seems a readymade and tailored market. The arms manufacturers just have to land, in the manner of Vasco da Gama or Robert Clive, and things will immediately fall into place.

Mr Mattis appears to be a practical, wise and thinking general. His advisory comes as a forewarning to his political colleagues, who more often than not have shown propensity to pass laws which later came back to harm, and not help, their own cause.

Mr Mattis’ diagnosis is near perfect and precise. He urges that US legislators should allow the government “flexible waiver authority” pertaining to Russia-related sanctions that seek to punish Third World countries, like India, for making “significant transactions” like arms purchase from Russia. He has clearly seen through the US fault line; he says “it is likely to prevent ourselves (US) from acting in our own best interests and place an undue burden on our allies/partners”. The waiver he seeks is from punitive actions under the “Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act (CAATSA)”, passed by the US Congress in January last year.

So what’s the status of the Indo-Russian relationship? The answer is that it’s solid. Despite the volatile and changing international scenario, India’s reliance on Russia, even today, is peerless. Russia supplied 68 per cent of India’s imports in 2012-2016, compared to the US’ 14 per cent and Israel’s 7.2 per cent. Imports from Russia are often in the form of assembly or licensed production of major weapons by India’s state-owned arms industry. If we look at the contemporary order list and long-term planning, it will be clear that Russia will continue to be India’s main supplier of major arms and equipment in the foreseeable future.

Hence, it is necessary to make everyone understand, and particularly the United States, that there is no point even in trying to think of imposing sanctions on India for buying Russian arms. Despite its chaotic polity and its endlessly quarrelling and squabbling leaders, India can’t be cajoled or compelled to “fall in line”. No one doubts Russia’s loyalty towards India; what Russia has been doing for India in the armaments industry since 1950s no other country has done! No doubt Russia too has made money and at times did not play fair financially, yet in the overarching scenario, despite being a virtual monopoly stakeholder in the Indian arms bazar, Russia has always given whatever India has asked for and it never pulled strings or imposed conditions on the “end-use” of weapons that it supplied to this country.

A cursory glance at the inventory of India’s Army, Navy and Air Force reveals this reality. According to Military Balance 2018 (published in February 2018 by International Institute for Strategic Studies, London), apart from 122 (India-made) Arjun tanks, all 1,950 T-72M1 and 1,025 T-90S main battle tanks (MBTs) are of Russian origin. Further, infantry fighting vehicles, armoured personnel carriers, armoured engineering vehicles, recovery vehicles, anti-tank infrastructure and surface-to-air missiles are also from Russia.

The Indian Navy’s dependence on Russia goes back to the 1960s when the first Foxtrot-class diesel electric patrol submarine was inducted into its fleet on December 8, 1967. Today, the lone nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) INS Chakra (ex-Russian Akula II) is on lease from Moscow. So is the case with nine imported Kilo-class submarines. The Navy’s long-range lethality originated with five Rajput (Kashin) class destroyers on September 30, 1980. The sole aircraft-carrier INS Vikrama-ditya today is of Russia’s Kiev class. All the indigenous surface shipbuilding programme of India, like those of the Delhi, Kolkata and Shivalik class destroyers and Brahmaputra, Godavari, Talwar class frigates are either designed by Russia or derived heavily from it. In naval aviation too, there is the MiG-29K/KUB Fulcrum; Ilyushin-38SD and Ka-28 helicopter.

The Indian Air Force too has banked heavily on various types MiGs — MiG-21, 23, 25R, 27 and 29 — for more than 50 years. Although MiG-25R and 27 are retired, according to Military Balance 2018, there are “62 MiG-29 fighters” and over 250 operational MiG-21 and 23 “fighter ground attack” aircraft in the Indian fleet. The IAF also flies Mi-25, 35 and 17 helicopters.

So the relationship between the Indian military and Russia just cannot be wished away by anyone. I am no supporter of Russia, or for that matter anyone else, other than our own enterprises. However, realpolitik and real-time “situations” became a compulsion for India from 1962 onwards to
seek assistance. That was the time when the West did not feel it necessary to give us the “latest and the best”.

When late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi had complained over the arming of Pakistan with the F-86 Sabre jet, Lockheed F-104 and (then) General Dynamics F-16, the situation indeed looked grim and gloomy for the Indian armed forces. Her fault was that she had waged a war in 1971 to break what some in the West felt was perhaps the strongest bulwark against “hegemonic India”. It was during those dark hours that the Russians came to New Delhi’s rescue. Of course, the Russians too had their own motives — to counter their Cold War rivals on Indian soil. However, it was a blessing in disguise for India.

The point to make today is that the American establishment — both the administration and Congress — should heed what Mr Mattis says, and desist from trying to impose sanctions on India for purchasing arms or collaborating with Russians in matters related to India’s national security. The Americans’ fight with Russia can’t be carried out on, or from, Indian soil the way 18th and 19th century Europe’s Anglo-French wars were waged from Wandiwash and Arcot to Plassey and Bharatpur to Seringapatnam.

India needs to be able to take its own sovereign decisions on what it considers best for its national security. Other nations need to stay out and not try to interfere, just as the Indian Parliament does not try to exercise jurisdiction over foreign lands!
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 07 May 2018 15:32

Watch the inauguration of Pres. Putin in full here.Amazing clips inside the kremlin,from his office to the rgand halls where the function is taking place.What strikes one is the huge amount of walking he did to get to the event,taking minutes walking through endless corridors and halls and staircases without any aides,buggies,etc.,showing off his remarkable fitness.For all those keen on pomp and ceremony,this is a must watch.
Also of interest was a new presidential Russian limo that he travelled in to get to the grand halls from his office complex.It took almost 15 mins. for Putin to get to the grand halls from his office.
His own office was remarkable rather spartan when compared with those of many of our corporate czars! It was smaller than some of those I've seen in India of corporate heads and appeared to be more functional than grandiose.I know of one head who sits on a a throne-like seat on a slightly elevated platform,visitors at ground level to make them feel small!

Another remarkable fact was that no chairs were provided for the thousands of dignitaries,officials,diplomats,etc. both inside and outside
who witnessed the ceremony.They must've stood for at least an hour plus. Putin walking alone without any security inside the kremlin is in stark contrast with other heads who have bodyguards everywhere they go.
His interaction with Russian youth afterwards and his words to them are a stark contrast with the attitude of many of our netas! Quite a show.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20180507 ... uguration/

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 07 May 2018 17:21

Since the Time Soviet Union used ZIL Cars for transporting leadership , For the first time Russian President is travelling in Designed & Made In Russia Limo ....Till date all Russian President used Mercedes variant for VIP Transport

Russia: Putin takes inaugural ride in brand new Cortege limousine



Image

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby nvishal » 07 May 2018 18:39

US sanctions Delays Defence Payments between India-Russia
With Russia’s flagship arms trading company Rosoboronexport coming under sanctions by the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) last month, almost the entire arms trade with India has come to a grinding halt after the State Bank of India put an immediate stop to all payments from April 7

US has started enforcing Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act

The sanctions do not halt the payments as article writer Manu pubby claims. It just means that the payments get delayed as they go through extra hops.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby kit » 07 May 2018 20:27

nvishal wrote:US sanctions Delays Defence Payments between India-Russia
With Russia’s flagship arms trading company Rosoboronexport coming under sanctions by the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) last month, almost the entire arms trade with India has come to a grinding halt after the State Bank of India put an immediate stop to all payments from April 7

US has started enforcing Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act

The sanctions do not halt the payments as article writer Manu pubby claims. It just means that the payments get delayed as they go through extra hops.


I suppose if Russia buys more from India it would help both parties.. Maybe trade in rupee than dollar ?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 07 May 2018 20:30

A grim reminder what a " strategic relationship " with the US really entails, should instead be called a "servile relationship.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 07 May 2018 20:57

Philip wrote:A grim reminder what a " strategic relationship " with the US really entails, should instead be called a "servile relationship.


No. A grim reminder of declining India-Russia trade. Why can’t trade be in Rubles and Rupees instead of Dollars?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 07 May 2018 21:04

India is not a colony of US to ask for any relief , if US blocks india payment then India should stop buy any further arms from US

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby nvishal » 07 May 2018 21:09

kit wrote:I suppose if Russia buys more from India it would help both parties.. Maybe trade in rupee than dollar ?

Sanctions are nothing new. The Americans can restrict their allies from selling military hardware to India. This policy stands to this day.

But Russia is not an American ally. And there are many modes of payment options available to us but they incur extra labour and commission fees. The CAATSA Act is impulsive. It tries to restrict Russia as an alternate market in the global defence market. The chinese are also emerging in this market. The Americans feel that it is necessary to restrict one of them.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2018 21:16

Austin wrote:India is not a colony of US to ask for any relief , if US blocks india payment then India should stop buy any further arms from US


Nothing stops India from creating a new PSB with Russian involvement to interface with SBI etc and get the payments. And keep it off the grid so to speak.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 07 May 2018 21:47

Mort Walker wrote:
Philip wrote:A grim reminder what a " strategic relationship " with the US really entails, should instead be called a "servile relationship.


No. A grim reminder of declining India-Russia trade. Why can’t trade be in Rubles and Rupees instead of Dollars?


This should be leveraged to our advantage. According to Wikipedia, India runs a 50% trade deficit with Russia. We should use these restrictions to get out of expensive boondoggles like the PAKFA and S400 (spend the money on indigenous programmes instead) and insist on a barter type system so that the trade deficit can be cancelled out.

Surely our one and true great eternal friend (according to the Russophiles) would be more than willing to help us out by buying more Indian products, at least to even out the trade deficit :D

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 07 May 2018 23:06

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:India is not a colony of US to ask for any relief , if US blocks india payment then India should stop buy any further arms from US


Nothing stops India from creating a new PSB with Russian involvement to interface with SBI etc and get the payments. And keep it off the grid so to speak.


This would make the most sense, but India-Russia trade is less than $7.8 billion a year. There may simply not be enough commercial volume in either Rupees or Rubles. If the Russians don’t like the Americans, then quit insisting on payment in Dollars.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 08 May 2018 06:52

Karan M wrote:
Austin wrote:India is not a colony of US to ask for any relief , if US blocks india payment then India should stop buy any further arms from US


Nothing stops India from creating a new PSB with Russian involvement to interface with SBI etc and get the payments. And keep it off the grid so to speak.


They can also pay in Euro , it’s not necessary that payments are done in USD but for accounting it’s counted in usd even if paid in euro or other hard currency

Any way the point is India is not some US colony depending on good will of its master to do transaction with other countryes for so long as sanctions don’t come from UN it’s not our problem , if US tries to act like one then drop the ball and tell them point blank india won’t buy their arms , they will fall to their place.

Good things is india nda conveyor has sent strong message this should put them to their senses

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 08 May 2018 07:29

The US would be shooting itself in the foot with regard to India.

Defense bill would allow sanctions waivers for some allies buying Russian weapons

In congressional testimony last month, Mattis highlighted India and Vietnam as countries where the United States is “going to paralyze ourselves” without a national security waiver for the sanctions.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 08 May 2018 07:39

India-Russia trade my be over $8 billion next year, but it will definitely be over $80 billion with China, and probably closer to $100 billion mostly in favor of the Chinese. At the same time US-China trade is nearly $600 billion a year. Unless the US puts restrictions on trade with China, no sanctions will have an effect on Russia, they will get their critical manufacturing components from the Chinese, and in-turn provide China key weapon system technologies. Any weapon system or technology India gets from Russia, rest assured there will be cost effective countermeasures by the Chinese and Pakis. It is not what the US offers to India, but what China gets from Russia that will be the biggest threat to India - and for that reason there is no point of any extensive collaboration between India and Russia, nor any reason for massive purchases of any foreign weapon system by India.

Support the Tejas and Arjun and move forward with new projects as they will be far better in the long run than any import from Russia or the US.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 08 May 2018 13:06

I agree about reducing imports from any source as much as possible,but there are some systems that we can't replace for decades like S-400s,nuclear subs,etc. without significant firang (Ru) help.JVs are the way to go before we can steadily replace systems indigenously.But even these "indigenous" systems rely a lot upon firang components,so we cannot expect a 100% desi def. industry.Even in the West there's huge inter-dependence.The irony is that the Yak-130 AJT was also the basis for the identical Italian M-346,which is now being used to train NATO pilots,including US and Israelis too!

Russia certainly can buy ore Indian consumer goods as the quality of Indian products has vastly improved.Aeons ago,Chiclets were one of the most popular items carried by our sailor boys to Russia! The sanctions of the West offer us a golden opportunity to replace them with indian stuff.Cheese for example.Russians have got used to eating fine cheeses from the EU.The Indian cheese industry has arrived and there are a number of foodstuffs and commodities like good tea,coffee, etc. that we can export as we once did during the Rupee-Rouble days.In fact,reviving that pact would be in the interests of both nations,avoiding dollar trade. India should also take up the offer from Venezuela of cut price petro products to be paid n their crypto-currency the "Petro".This would hugely alleviate the rapidly rising oil import bill affecting the Indian citizen alarmingly.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby nvishal » 08 May 2018 21:30

On the meaning of SBIs halting of payments to russia. There are arguments doing rounds that the mere threat of CAATSA has forced India to its knees.

India Capitulates to the US and Cuts off Russian Arms Deals

If the information in the article is correct, this means that before even lobbying for the kinds of exemptions that Secretary Mattis was arguing for, India has already capitulated to the implicit threats in CAATSA and is moving to effectively end a decades long security partnership with Moscow, seemingly without so much as a robust discussion with the parties involved.


India’s willingness to freeze the sales of Russian weapons without even using the US Defence Secretary’s own words as leverage against Washington in an attempt to reach a compromise solution, demonstrates how the current Indian government is both subservient to the US and in denial about Russia’s own gradual withdrawal from an Indian partnership that New Delhi has demonstrated is expendable in spite of decades of loyalty from Russia.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 09 May 2018 00:08

The SBI is taking a precautionary measure until they have clarification. India US trade is $125 billion with $75 billion in only goods. India Russia trade is a tenth of that.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Amoghvarsha » 09 May 2018 02:24

Mort Walker wrote:The SBI is taking a precautionary measure until they have clarification. India US trade is $125 billion with $75 billion in only goods. India Russia trade is a tenth of that.


Its not about Indo US trade. Its about independence and sovereignity. India is not a colony of US that it has to implement US sanctions againist its own allies. If this has indeed happened then this is a huge mistake by the present govt and will adversely affect Indian security and strategic concerns.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 09 May 2018 09:51

Nitin A. Gokhale
‏Verified account @nitingokhale

Perhaps in anticipation of these roadblocks Indian NSA Ajit Doval is in Russia today. His task in Moscow: reaffirm long-standing India-Russia ties in view of the fast changing geopolitical situation and maintain balance


Nitin A. Gokhale

Multi-polarity is the name of the game. That’s why India has reached out to China and as we speak, NSA is in Russia. US may want us in their camp but we are clearly charting our own course if you look at our ties in the Middle East alone
Last edited by Austin on 09 May 2018 09:53, edited 1 time in total.

Austin
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 09 May 2018 09:51

Indo-US Relations: Faced With US’s Bullying, India Sues For Exemption

It took only the threat of ‘Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act’ (CAATSA) of the United States to get India to bend. Manu Pubby wrote in the Economic Times that financial sanctions under CAATSA by the US have “hit hard” India’s arms trade with Russia – putting in limbo the payment worth $2 billion for weapons and equipment, as well as repairs of warships and aircrafts. CAATSA threatens to impose financial transactions related to military and other trade, so as to compel countries to bow down to its diktat. INS Chakra, a nuclear submarine on lease from Russia, needed repairs following an accident it suffered last year, worth $15 million. The amount is small, but the repair work is stalled because State Bank of India refused to make remittances to Moscow. Russia’s flagship arms trading company Rosoboronexport was listed with the US office of Foreign Assets Control last month and on April 17, all payments to Moscow were halted by the Indian bank SBI. India was in the midst of negotiating a closure to a deal to buy S-400 surface to air missiles defense system worth $5.5billion from Russia. Narendra Modi government insists that procuring S400 air defense missiles is vital for India’s defense planning. If this is the case—as Service Chiefs also contend—then Indian government’s and its officials’ capitulation before the US is inexplicable.

The US, in a way, has been blackmailing countries into whittling down their trade – arms trade, in particular, with Russia, imports of oil and natural gas from Iran, and has been trying to shun North Korea. This shows what the US has always been: an imperial power, which can ride roughshod over any country for profit and hegemony. Turkey, a NATO ally of the US, has been threatened with full might of CAATSA, if it goes ahead to procure S400 ADM from Russia. It has also stalled the sale of US F35 fighter jets to Turkey. So far, Turkey has warned of retaliation. But none has responded as meekly as the Indian government, which filed “requests” with the US administration to “exempt” India. Asking a bully to make an exception in your case is a mark of inferiority complex, and so is arm twisting by the US brings to bear in its relationship with those ‘inferior’ to it in terms of power, ally and foe. It did not occur to the Indian government that such arbitrary and aggressive posture of US, which affects India’s sovereign right to decide what to buy and whom to buy from – as long as there is no violation of international law and conventions, which abhors unilateral acts – demanded a firm resolve.

The Bill on CAATSA was introduced by Californian Congressperson Ed Royce, who is a “friend of India”, to sanction countries which have “substantial dealings” with Russia, Iran or North Korea. In February, Indian foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale asked the US administration for making an “exemption” for India. This exhibits Indian policymakers’ tendency to bend over backwards to ingratiate with the US officials, and to send a message that India is willing to join the US’s imperial orbit. Therefore, for two days (May 3-4, 2018) Indian and the US’s officials met to “review” what US calls “foundational pacts”: Communication Compatibility and Security Arrangement (COMCASA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA). Air Vice Marshal of Indian Air Force Manmohan Bahadur told Ananth Shreyas of The Financial Express Online that “India may consider signing BECA and COMCASA, if these enable the defense forces to use these equipment to their full capability.” However, the decision, “must be a very conscious one, so that our rights are protected”. There is a seminal difference between protecting “rights” as against protecting a country’s “interests”. Assuming that this was a slip, the allure of “hi-tech communications and surveillance equipment” is not.

Ben Scharatz, Senior Director US India Business Council, told Business Line that signing COMCASA “creates the condition for the Indian military to receive modern, secure and net enabled weapon system such as precision armed, air to air missiles, space & navigation systems that are critical component platforms like fighter aircraft and unmanned aerial systems.” The argument is that earlier India bought expensive commercial communication equipment, thereby raising the cost of procurement, whereas COMCASA will bring these costs down. It is a truism that while buying military equipment, price alone is not the consideration sometimes. Paying more can be a way of avoiding having to compromise vital interests. In other words, getting something cheap may be, in fact, more expensive because it entails sacrificing something intangible, but most dear: independence. In this USIBC sales pitch, the hidden or the actual cost is never disclosed. Besides, loss of independence cannot be measured in monetary terms. Because proprietary technology will remain a property of the US now, backed by obligations under ‘foundational pacts’. Thus, control and command will remain for all practical purpose with the US; its military personnel maintain an intrusive presence to ensure compliance with the US’s domestic laws and rules. Besides, the future cost of equipment, wherewithal, repair and spare parts will more than make up for the first discounted order, since without repeat orders, no original equipment manufacturer (OEM) will bring any significant part of manufacturing to India.

Amidst propaganda blitz about hi-tech weapons and communications from the US raining on us and the pitfalls of forging too close a tie with the US, makes all too evident the need for persisting with an independent foreign policy and strategic autonomy. This today lies buried under the weight of the hubris and weakness of India’s rulers. Hubris throws us in the direction of right wing adventurism – always ready to sell country’s interests to their self-interest, while rulers of weak countries use weakness to justify becoming militarily powerful, a panacea somehow for much of the country’s problems. So showing off India’s military prowess in foolish ventures such as “surgical strike’, firing five bullets for every one fired by Pakistan to cause three to four times “pain”, face-offs with China, announcing fight to finish the militants in Kashmir, have proved to be inconsequential. The baleful consequence of India’s dependence on weapon imports to reach the illusionary military parity vis a vis China and Pakistan has run its course. The “56 inch” government of Narendra Modi that seeks to forge military bond with the US, a warmongering bully abroad and a vile authoritarian at home, risk compromising independence all in order to take on China and pull its weight in the region. Since there are no ‘free lunches’ in life, there is a price to be paid to the US, in the form of giving up on strategic autonomy and independent foreign policy.

Karan M
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 09 May 2018 10:04

Navlakha is a BJP/Modi and US hating leftist. Asking the US for an exemption without making a fuss is a sign of a mature power, one who can get things done without public drama and one which is not compromising its interests. Further he quotes Pubby, another equally dubious source.

Austin, please post better sources. This guy is as bad as any TSP rag in terms of ideology overpowering reason.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Austin » 09 May 2018 10:42

Karan M wrote:Navlakha is a BJP/Modi and US hating leftist. Asking the US for an exemption without making a fuss is a sign of a mature power, one who can get things done without public drama and one which is not compromising its interests. Further he quotes Pubby, another equally dubious source.

Austin, please post better sources. This guy is as bad as any TSP rag in terms of ideology overpowering reason.


Why should India a soverign nation in dealing with Russia another soverign nation should be subject to some Internal laws of US.

Why should we even ask for an exception ? IF US gives an exception to India with terms and condition applied would that be acceptable to us ? Its hardly a sign of maturity and more of naivety

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 09 May 2018 10:54

Austin, please think things through. Jingoism is one thing, practicality is what counts. The US and India are large trading partners, with a BOT in favor of India and the US is supporting Indias access to tech from ecosystems virtually created by it in US, Europe (via the Marshall plan), Israel etc. The US is also necessary for India to counteract China in specific areas, after they built up the Chinese into a huge power economically.

Asking the US for an exemption is a practical first step. It proves where we are in real terms, if the exemption is given, then both parties go on their way. If not, then we will gradually escalate. Either bways, we are not giving up on the S-400.

Or making a huge drama about evil US and burning flags.

This is what mature powers do, they fulfill their interests without coming across as throwing a fit or jeopardizing their other interests.

As regards the US and its intrusive legal system, thats neither here or there. It us the modern day Roman empire or whatever, and as such it has disproportionate power. It will take decades for China to even create the ecology the US in terms of tech, allies, financial systems.

We just have to make our way without getting too stuck in the internecine squabblrs of other powers.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby rsingh » 09 May 2018 22:26

Austin wrote:Since the Time Soviet Union used ZIL Cars for transporting leadership , For the first time Russian President is travelling in Designed & Made In Russia Limo ....Till date all Russian President used Mercedes variant for VIP Transport

Russia: Putin takes inaugural ride in brand new Cortege limousine



Image


Interesting to note that they still use word "comrade". Like Comrade President of Russian Federation....sounds wierd.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby rsingh » 09 May 2018 22:40

Austin wrote:
Karan M wrote:Navlakha is a BJP/Modi and US hating leftist. Asking the US for an exemption without making a fuss is a sign of a mature power, one who can get things done without public drama and one which is not compromising its interests. Further he quotes Pubby, another equally dubious source.

Austin, please post better sources. This guy is as bad as any TSP rag in terms of ideology overpowering reason.


Why should India a soverign nation in dealing with Russia another soverign nation should be subject to some Internal laws of US.

Why should we even ask for an exception ? IF US gives an exception to India with terms and condition applied would that be acceptable to us ? Its hardly a sign of maturity and more of naivety

Whenever a sovereign nation signs some treaty, it losses some of its sovereignty in the form of "shared sovereignty. This sharing can be asymmetrical (depending upon political, economical or power projection clouts of one or more nations).

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby rsingh » 09 May 2018 22:48

rsingh wrote:
Austin wrote:
Why should India a soverign nation in dealing with Russia another soverign nation should be subject to some Internal laws of US.

Why should we even ask for an exception ? IF US gives an exception to India with terms and condition applied would that be acceptable to us ? Its hardly a sign of maturity and more of naivety

Whenever a sovereign nation signs some treaty, it losses some of its sovereignty in the form of "shared sovereignty. This sharing can be asymmetrical (depending upon political, economical or power projection clouts of one or more nations).


Wish India had its own limo. TATA has technology but too cautious to invest in such things; Mahindra is true out-of-box thinking company.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 10 May 2018 13:09

I agree.We should act maturely and not zenophobically. I am truly p*ssed off with the US's hegemonistic attitude as much as I detest that of the Chins too,but as they say,"there are many ways to skin a cat".India must simply go ahead with its long-delayed deals with Russia,esp. those which have already been approved and brazen it out with the US.If the US tries to impose sanctions,then all mil. deals with the US will be dumped.That must be our threat.I forget which US general warned the US admin. not to go heavy on India saying that it would have the opposite effect; bring India ,Russia and China closer together.Sane advice and one sincerely hopes that the US Trump admin takes heed and not resort to arrogant and crude bullying of India. There is underneath the surface in India,a love-hate mentality of the US.We love its scientific advances,technological prowess,Hollywood,the "Great Am. Dream",etc.,but abhor its global attitude to smaller lesser powerful nations which it tries to bully and invade at will.The entire ME has been in chaos for ecades mainly due to the US's incompetent military intervention without any political solution to back it up,as it scarce understands the society,culture and religion of the nations it has intervened in. Imposing sanctions against India would be the most asinine act of any US administration since the sanctions after P-2.

From the little that I know,our NSA is a very practical individual who values our long-standing relationship with Russia that has stood the test of time.The last thing one expects from the Modi govt. is abandoning Russia just becos a Yanqui babu hyperventilates from his lower orifice.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 11 May 2018 13:17

Deleted.
Last edited by Philip on 11 May 2018 13:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Bart S » 11 May 2018 13:33

Philip wrote:Putin's physical fitness amazing,playing ice-hockey at the age of 65.watch the vclip.


Why should we care?

And what does this have to do with India, India-Russia relations or BRF? This kind of crap is more suited to Instagram.

Philip
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 11 May 2018 13:40

Will delete, but good to see a leader in top shape unlike our obese net as!


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