India-Russia: News & Analysis

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Ashokk
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Ashokk » 05 Jun 2020 12:56

India briefs Russia on LAC, Afghanistan
NEW DELHI: While PM Narendra Modi exchanged views with US President Donald Trump on the situation at LAC, India has also briefed Russia about the border standoff with China.
Foreign secretary Harsh Shringla in a meeting Tuesday with Russian ambassador Nikolay Kudashev discussed regional issues of interest like Afghanistan and also the border situation in Ladakh, ToI has learnt.
Russia is seen by many as China's ally but it's also a key partner of India with which the government has lined up a series of heavy-duty bilateral and multilateral engagements this year. Russia's unqualified support to India on reorganisation of JnK has been critical to India's efforts to fend off criticism over the issue.
India remains against any form of mediation on the border issue. In the past though, on the limited issue of NSG membership, it has used Moscow to convince China to not oppose India's bid, as then foreign minister Sushma Swaraj confirmed in 2017.
Shringla and Kudashev discussed in detail plans for the upcoming events.
These include Indian military participation in the Military Parade in Moscow on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the victory in the Second World War, SCO/BRICS summits in Russia and meetings of defence ministers and foreign ministers, visit by President Vladimir Putin for the annual summit, RIC foreign ministers' meeting and also the SCO heads of government meeting which will be hosted by India in November.

Russia is said to have backed India and China to resolve the latest border flare up through their existing bilateral agreements and protocols.
Russia's deputy ambassador Roman Babushkin was Monday quoted as having said that while Russia was worried about the current situation at LAC, it was also confident that India and China would be able to find a way out through the "dedicated special mechanisms and tools" they had developed like hotlines, special representatives' dialogue and informal summits.
He had also said Russia would encourage any such endeavour, while underlining the significance of Russia-India-China (RIC) trilateral and SCO cooperation for regional stability and developing mutual trust.
Like India, Russia is also among the 4 countries Trump has invited to join G-7 as he seeks to turn the "outdated" group effectively into G-11. Moscow doesn't appear as enthused by the invite though, and perhaps expectedly so because of its ties with China.
Russia's foreign ministry spokesperson was Tuesday quoted as having said that while the idea of an expanded G-7 summit was in general a step in the right direction, it didn't really mean a true representation.
"For instance, it's obvious that it's hardly possible to implement serious global initiatives without China. We currently have an efficient, tried and tested format, G20, which includes G7, BRICS and other leading centres of economic growth and political influence of the entire world, not just one part of it," she said.

India-Russia in 2020
1. Indian military contingent’s participation in the Military Parade in Moscow this month on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the victory in the Second World War

2. SCO/BRICS Summits in Russia

3. Meeting of SCO/CIS/CSTO Defence Ministers

4. Meeting of SCO/BRICS Foreign Ministers

5. India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission proposed in September

6. Foreign Secretary – deputy foreign minister consultations before the Annual Bilateral Summit

7. Visit of President Putin to India for the Annual Summit – latter part of 2020

8. SCO Heads of Government Meeting in India in November

9. RIC Foreign Ministers Meeting to be held in Russia

10. Visit of deputy PM Trutnev with 11 Governors of the Russian Far East region

Vips
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 05 Jun 2020 17:38

India should stop wasting its time on briefing Russia as Russia will always try to protect China's interests which will always be inimical to us. On Afghanistan it has already taken a position which favors China/Pakistan/Taliban. Trump invited Russia into the expanded G7 group ending its isolation but it is protesting the US move to expand G7 and wants China to be included in the group. Russia does not care for India's strategic interests and it is in reality China's bitch and errand boy.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 11 Jun 2020 07:50

G-7 invite to Russia, India targets China: Russia.

While Russia sees itself as an "honest broker" for dialogue and peaceful resolution of international disputes, Moscow won't interfere in the SinoIndian military standoff as it's a bilateral dispute, said top Russian Parliamentarian and chief of Federation Council (upper house of Parliament) international affairs committee Konstantin Kosachev


The Russian lawmaker also said Moscow wasn't enthusiastic about US President Donald Trump's invite to 4 countries, including Russia and India,
for G-7 as it didn't want to join any bloc or alliance against China.


On Trump's G7 invite though, India and Russia have divergent views. While India was quick to accept the invite, extended to Modi by the US president, Russia has continued to raise questions saying that it was meant to isolate China.


Russia has laid it out clearly it will bat for China and will not care for supporting something if that favors India over china.Truly China's Bitch.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby vimal » 11 Jun 2020 08:00

Russia is doing what all rational nation state would do. Name calling in juvenile.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 12 Jun 2020 17:42

Rational Nations do not ask their 'friend country' to overlook its strategic interests and accept its enemies policy(Russia asked us to overlook our Kashmir claims and join the Chinese OBOR). It is one thing to offer friendly advice and another to do pimping.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby chola » 13 Jun 2020 14:41

We need to think long and hard about Russian systems:

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/06/13/why-subramanian-swamy-doesnt-want-india-to-use-s-400-missiles-against-china.html


On Friday, Swamy tweeted a warning to the Narendra Modi government to not use the S-400 missile system in a conflict with China. Swamy wrote, "The Namo government would be well advised not to use S400 in a possible battle with China. This is because S400 is made with Chinese electronics. Russia is today a junior partner of China". China was the first export customer for the S-400, buying the missile system in 2014 and taking delivery of the first units in 2018.
...
This is not the first time Swamy has warned against the S-400 missile system. In December 2019, Swamy warned the presence of Chinese electronics would make the missile system "compromised" in a war with Pakistan, in addition to the risk of US sanctions. Swamy then tweeted, "Expect a deadly US Sanctions blow early next year because of the S-400 purchase from Russia which weapon has embedded China's electronics. S-400 is a fine weapon but compromised in a war with Pakistan. On a cost-benefit-risk analysis: Bad".


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Yagnasri » 13 Jun 2020 18:05

Philip wrote:Hannibal took elephants across the Alps remember.


They are African ones. Not Indian ones.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby darshan » 13 Jun 2020 18:40

Answer isn't to cancel the S400 buy. The answer is to have ability to identify such weaknesses and then not buy as India is still an import nation. US has many reasons to not sanction India. The main being the India exposing the intentional weakness in Russian system.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby M_Joshi » 14 Jun 2020 00:45

chola wrote:

On Friday, Swamy tweeted a warning to the Narendra Modi government to not use the S-400 missile system in a conflict with China.



This doesn't help Swamy's reputation of being a US stooge.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Jun 2020 01:46

chola wrote:We need to think long and hard about Russian systems:

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/06/13/why-subramanian-swamy-doesnt-want-india-to-use-s-400-missiles-against-china.html


On Friday, Swamy tweeted a warning to the Narendra Modi government to not use the S-400 missile system in a conflict with China. Swamy wrote, "The Namo government would be well advised not to use S400 in a possible battle with China. This is because S400 is made with Chinese electronics. Russia is today a junior partner of China". China was the first export customer for the S-400, buying the missile system in 2014 and taking delivery of the first units in 2018.
...
This is not the first time Swamy has warned against the S-400 missile system. In December 2019, Swamy warned the presence of Chinese electronics would make the missile system "compromised" in a war with Pakistan, in addition to the risk of US sanctions. Swamy then tweeted, "Expect a deadly US Sanctions blow early next year because of the S-400 purchase from Russia which weapon has embedded China's electronics. S-400 is a fine weapon but compromised in a war with Pakistan. On a cost-benefit-risk analysis: Bad".



SuSwamy is always attuned to likes and dislikes of USA deep state.

Hence before Raul vinci SuSwamy started opposing Rafale saying it's too expensive to operate as its Canards need to be replaced every few months. As USA wanted us to buy fat panting f16s/f18s instead.

Now for some reason reason american deep state doesn't want us to buy S-400, please notice they don't object to ka-226, Talwar Frigates deals but S-400 PARTICULARLY.


BTW many of American defense systems have Chinese parts too.

Just couple of days back SuSwamy was boasting of his special deep connections with chinese leadership since 4 decades, and how he managed single handedly to convince them to open Kailash Mansarovar route.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Jun 2020 02:07

M_Joshi wrote:
chola wrote:


This doesn't help Swamy's reputation of being a US stooge.

USA isn't objecting to ka 226 Helicopters deal OR 4 Talwar Frigates deal. USA is objecting vehemently to S-400 deal exclusively & suSwami is in tune with them although he covers it beautifully with Chinese chips excuse, as if our armed FORCES aren't aware of that and they will not ask Russia to replace them with ours. Didn't IAF ask French to replace Rafale's original Helmet with Israeli one,as Israeli was superior? Same way many things in S400 will be different than Russian OR cheeni S-400s.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby kit » 14 Jun 2020 04:03

Manish_Sharma wrote:
M_Joshi wrote:
This doesn't help Swamy's reputation of being a US stooge.

USA isn't objecting to ka 226 Helicopters deal OR 4 Talwar Frigates deal. USA is objecting vehemently to S-400 deal exclusively & suSwami is in tune with them although he covers it beautifully with Chinese chips excuse, as if our armed FORCES aren't aware of that and they will not ask Russia to replace them with ours. Didn't IAF ask French to replace Rafale's original Helmet with Israeli one,as Israeli was superior? Same way many things in S400 will be different than Russian OR cheeni S-400s.


S SWAMY was/ is considered a CIA agent in the 80s , anyone remembers those episodes ?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Jun 2020 13:39

^yes

Cain Marko
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 16 Jun 2020 10:04

Irrespective of Susus silly theories I feel there is a distinct possibility that the s400 is pak centric in any case. It's usp makes it a game changer in this regard.

1. It is redundant as an abm system since the pdv/pad combo is excellent for intercepts in the same BM category of intermediate range.
2. The Chinese don't really field shortish ranged ALCMs carried by fighters for the strategic role. This is a tsp tactic via babur and nasr types carried by fighters. Perfect for for the s400s USP,... The vlrsam.
3. The s400 would allow the IAF to play to it's strength by maximizing the use of its airbases and fighters vs China, something the Chinese severely lack, in case of a 2 front attack. The pakis will be completely kept in check via point defence fighters and the s400. Everything from their aew to heavily armed lumbering fighters will be kept at bay. A small force of mrca types will ensure air superiority and offensive capacity, this will be even more apparent when the Navy has 2CVs and can bring to bear additional fulcrums.

The s400 basically allows the IAF to fully concentrate a large amount of its forces on the Chinese. Of course if it's anti stealth features are legit, it could be super useful against the Chinese when they start fielding their j20 types.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 16 Jun 2020 13:06

Russia has just accused the Chinese of spying after arresting the pres. of its Arctic Social Sciences Academy,Valery Mitko.
He's accused of providing China with classified sub-detection tech.,etc.
Despite apparent closness to traditionally were invaded from the east.Napoleon and Hitler were exceptions. Russians have more in common with European nations than Asian. Remember that the Romanovs were related to the British royal family. The current Russo- Chin bonhomie is of expediency.
A sizeable part of the Ru forces remain on thf Chin border and likewise. Putin has a better personal relationship with bumbling Trump than sinister XI.

What Putin has done is to have ended the "robber baron" regime of the drunken lout Yeltsin.He was so drunk aboard an aircraft once,that he couldn't even receive the Irish PM at the airport on one occasion! Yeltsin's oligarch pals fled Russia for the UK from where for several decades they plotted to overthrow him by by organising conspiracies in cahoots with Brit. and other western intel. outfits. Unable to do so they planned and undertook false flag assassinations and attempted ones of Ru low-level defectors living in Britain who had been in exile for several years,trying to put the blame on various state individuals, by implication that somehow Putin gave the orders.

Putin has also carefully transformed the Ru military establishment in shambles after the collapse of the USSR.The strat. defence division has got the most attention ,esp. the SSBN fleet. In a few days time the 75th. anniv. of the fall of Berlin in WW2 will take place featuring both Indian and Chinese troops in the parade.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby srin » 16 Jun 2020 18:42

Vips wrote:Rational Nations do not ask their 'friend country' to overlook its strategic interests and accept its enemies policy(Russia asked us to overlook our Kashmir claims and join the Chinese OBOR). It is one thing to offer friendly advice and another to do pimping.


Unfortunately for us, the Russia-US cold war and the post-Crimea sanctions pushed Russia into the China's arms. Outside our control and outside of Russia's control.
At the same time, Russia also generally seems to treat us as the India of the USSR times - a customer for arms and not as a partner. Yes to T-10, Akula and S400 but no to partnership in FGFA. That is what I'm upset with them about. I don't care what they say in public, as long as they support us strategically by helping us become strong.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Jun 2020 10:22

srin wrote:[ Yes to T-10, Akula and S400 but no to partnership in FGFA. That is what I'm upset with them about. I don't care what they say in public, as long as they support us strategically by helping us become strong.

Actually I'm not sure this is exactly the case. iirc. The russkis were all for India to participate on the pakfa from day one. I recall of such overtures through the early 2000s. Indian babus took their time and by the time they wanted to join, it was already first flight and not much rnd left to participate in.

It was similar with al31fp deep tech too. Hal didn't want to go any deeper. The russkis were ready. If they were willing enough with ssbn reactors, I'm not sure they'd have to much trouble with the rest provided the $s followed.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 20 Jun 2020 07:22

MIG-31s, which are AWACS killers,Backfires,nuclear subs offered way back when Adm.Pereira was chief too.He wanted the IN to float before it could swim and the U-209 acquisition and sub building programme began,only to be sabotaged by VP Singh and his allegations about HDW kickbacks never proven and dumped by the courts decades later. The Soviets/ Russians wanted us to dominate the IOR with these systems.Even the Gorshkov- VikA was offered to us when no western nation wanted to give us a carrier,that too a second hand one requiring major renovations.
Had the govts. of the day seized these opportunities, it would've seen the IN operating in the ICS after dominating the IOR.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 20 Jun 2020 19:12

That was then when Russia was short of friends and having a heavyweight like India in its camp suited it. Right now if there is a war with china i will consider ourselves lucky if Russia gives us various spares/parts that would be required to keep our armed forces in meaningful action. I hope india has contingencies worked out as Russia cannot be trusted given its lap dog status to china.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 24 Jun 2020 18:38

The DM has been assured by the Russians that if the shit hits the fan with China,there will be no stoppage of spares,arms,etc. and delivery of critically reqd.items are being accelerated.

There was a media report today about the AK deal running into trouble becos of the price,after the cost of manufacture by the OFB was gound to be higher than estimated. This is a hard fact we have to realise,that ANY weapon system made in India will be more expensive than bought outright from the OEM as we're seeing with MKIs,T-90s,Scorpens subs- major cost overruns,Tejas- which has signifiant foreign content,etc. Our DPSUs have an inefficiency quotient that can't be easily overcome.The services havd been complaining for decades
about the same.In the case of the arty.,a great success story,pvt. players such as L&T, Kalyani and Tatas, have worked wonders along with the OFB making an improved Bofors clone,Dhanush.

Make a list of Ru weaponry inthe arsenal of the 3 services,Ru has been our most dependable ally,wiling to give us that qualitative edge over China and Pak with weaponry which the west are reluctant to part with at far greater cost too for comparative systems. Just one example.China's nuclear attack subs are relatively noisy because their size is smaller,not allowing for adequate rafting provisions for noisy mechanical eqpt. aboard.
They are nowhere close to US Los Angeles SSNs.US evaluation has it that Ru Akula-1 subs are quieter than late model LA class SSNs too. Our Chakra is supposed to be an Akula-2 sub. Not too long ago in exercises with the USN,an IN Kilo class diesel sub got the better of a USN LA class SSN. FGFA coop failed because Russia was too far ahead with development of the aircraft for us to join in meaningfully, plus we were short of skilled expert aerospace engineers given our multiplicity of programmes and limited HR assets.Cost was another factor too. We may rnd up buying it off thf shelf like the Rafales,should Chin, start fielding itz stealth fighters in large number against us and/ or transfer some to Pak.


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