India-Russia: News & Analysis

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dinesh_kimar
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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby dinesh_kimar » 28 Oct 2020 15:23

Cain Marko wrote:They seemed to have been reliable enough in Syria, and their much maligned hardware including upgraded cold war designs like Tu22s and Fencers put up some very serious uptimes in a rather far away location. That kind of power projection can only be matched by the USA, nobody else.


If that's the case, why are these designs much maligned?

Why no one else use Tu-22 and Fencer, if it's such a big hit?

Even the third world like Egypt and Iraq have smartly disposed off their inventory. No repeat orders.

Where's the Russian single engine multirole fighter with High MTBF engines?

Why has the IAF ordered 920 AL-31 engines till date for approx. 230 Sukhois?

Their production and reliability is shitty. The recent news feature of S-400 manufacturing plant , I think by Nitin Gokale, looks like a geriatric German shopfloor from the 1980s.

Our BDL and DRDO facilities look better.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 28 Oct 2020 17:52

Yes,that'a why the services keep on buying Ru! :rotfl:

But seriously,the doctrine is very different, for example life hours for engines compared with the west,keeping in mind battle conditions,attrition rate ,etc. Secondly,some systems like Backfires have not been offered to anyone.A few years ago the PRC seemed v.keen,but eventually nothing happened ,Ru apparently said " nyet", and the RuAF are upgrading at least 40+ of the 100+ in stock. Many havr been in action in Syria ddevastating ISIS. Even the elderly TU-95/142 Bears will serve until 2040+,just like B-52s. Their immense range,endurance,arrival of new LRCMs,huge payload- v.useful for launching drone swarms, has given them extra longevity. IAF veterans rue the retirement of our Canberras bombers which could've been converted into tankers which we are short of now.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cain Marko » 30 Oct 2020 23:30

dinesh_kimar wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:They seemed to have been reliable enough in Syria, and their much maligned hardware including upgraded cold war designs like Tu22s and Fencers put up some very serious uptimes in a rather far away location. That kind of power projection can only be matched by the USA, nobody else.

If that's the case, why are these designs much maligned?


When used properly, they work. Point is that what the Russians managed in Syria was quite the feat. And they did it with enviable logistical support for platforms with very decent uptimes.

Why no one else use Tu-22 and Fencer, if it's such a big hit?


Who the hell has a need for such platforms in today's world? Maybe India can use the backfire, and the fencer is now being replaced by the su34.

Even the third world like Egypt and Iraq have smartly disposed off their inventory. No repeat orders.


Iraq is a US proxy now. but there are many ordering new Russian wares in a hurry. Including mig35s, su35s kilos etc. Why look far away, desh is ordering plenty... From AKs, luh, talwar to s400. Some are repeat orders and others are fresh.

Where's the Russian single engine multirole fighter with High MTBF engines?


Ask the Chinese. They use it on about 400 of their 4.5 gen fighters.

Their production and reliability is shitty. The recent news feature of S-400 manufacturing plant , I think by Nitin Gokale, looks like a geriatric German shopfloor from the 1980s.
[/quote]
That's why the things that come out of that shop floor are selling like hot cakes! From China to Saudi and turkey and India. Get your western glasses off, and you'll see that the world continues well enough without them.
Last edited by Cain Marko on 31 Oct 2020 11:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby chetak » 31 Oct 2020 05:35

It would be extremely unwise of anyone to draw reliability conclusions based on data from battlefield sorties.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 31 Oct 2020 05:42

dinesh_kimar wrote:Even the third world like Egypt and Iraq have smartly disposed off their inventory. No repeat orders.

Where's the Russian single engine multirole fighter with High MTBF engines?

Why has the IAF ordered 920 AL-31 engines till date for approx. 230 Sukhois?

Their production and reliability is shitty. The recent news feature of S-400 manufacturing plant , I think by Nitin Gokale, looks like a geriatric German shopfloor from the 1980s.

Our BDL and DRDO facilities look better.


Please do some basic research. The Egyptians are buying MiG35s. The Algerian military is full of Russian gear. Russian SAMs are popular throughout the Middle East as are their ATGMs let alone small arms.

I don't know which images you saw but the S400 plant is fairly modern. You must be the only person even on the internet who thinks that the S400 imagery indicates some lousy reliability or production quality. The Chinese, India, Greek, Turks have all procured the S3/400. Various ME countries are in discussions for variants. IAF ordered engines in advance to ensure that if Russia again had issues we wouldn't be caught without spares and could manage the lower TBO/TTL of the engines.

There was an extended period of time post the FSU breakup wherein Russian mfg and supply chain took a heavy hit. While Russian gear gas often been maintenance heavy their mature products are often quite reliable.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 31 Oct 2020 05:51

dinesh_kimar wrote:Stating the obvious : cash isn't the problem, their systems and products remain shitty. They don't have an improvement culture.

Eg.
- the Russians produced and sold 680 Su--27 aircraft,
- 630 Su-30,
- 270 Su- 30MKI + 20 Su 30 MKM, and
- 160 Su-30 MKK.

An obvious bonanza, but they didn't improve their aircraft industry, it's still not as high tech and reliable as the West.

The Gripen, for example, has better reliability than Russian aircraft, and it's not technologically out of reach for Russia.



We expect higher quality posts. Spend some time on the topic. Don't just make off hand comments based on your personal perceptions etc.

"The Russians don't have an improvement culture". Yeah sure. So thats why there is S300 PS/PT, PMU1/2, S400 and now S500. The new S300V variant. And the S350, the Buk, Pantsir variants rapidly introduced on the basis of combat deployment. "The aircraft industry is still not as high tech and reliable as the west"..err, they have a quasi 5G platform in tests which when it matures would be superior to all the Eurocanards in service. None if the Euro countries have an eqvt at a similar stage. The modernized Su35 like the F15, can give a tough account of it itself vs most of the Eurocanards. Its key issue is its opex. Anyways IAF has enough Flankers and would seek.supploer diversity too.

The only new aircraft superior to the Su57 would be the US F-35, bar the F22 and that too there may be areas the Russian aircraft has some edge.

Where exactly do you think cash isn't a problem? ? It's their biggest issue. They have to prioritize and tactical weapons aren't a priority bar those which are more export ready. This us a key reason IAF chose Rafale over Su57. They wanted a mature product already funded and in service not a testbed where they'd have to keep investing to get it ready asap.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby chetak » 31 Oct 2020 05:53

Karan M wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:Even the third world like Egypt and Iraq have smartly disposed off their inventory. No repeat orders.

Where's the Russian single engine multirole fighter with High MTBF engines?

Why has the IAF ordered 920 AL-31 engines till date for approx. 230 Sukhois?

Their production and reliability is shitty. The recent news feature of S-400 manufacturing plant , I think by Nitin Gokale, looks like a geriatric German shopfloor from the 1980s.

Our BDL and DRDO facilities look better.


Please do some basic research. The Egyptians are buying MiG35s. The Algerian military is full of Russian gear. Russian SAMs are popular throughout the Middle East as are their ATGMs let alone small arms.

I don't know which images you saw but the S400 plant is fairly modern. You must be the only person even on the internet who thinks that the S400 imagery indicates some lousy reliability or production quality. The Chinese, India, Greek, Turks have all procured the S3/400. Various ME countries are in discussions for variants. IAF ordered engines in advance to ensure that if Russia again had issues we wouldn't be caught without spares and could manage the lower TBO/TTL of the engines.

There was an extended period of time post the FSU breakup wherein Russian mfg and supply chain took a heavy hit. While Russian gear gas often been maintenance heavy their mature products are often quite reliable.



+108

Russian stuff is generally good and reliable.

factors like hygiene and inadequate handling precautions by unionized desi workers on the factory floor are the most common causes of reliability issues and unscheduled shop visits.

go and checkout any maruti dealer workshop and then checkout a BMW dealer workshop in the same city and it will be easy to understand

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 01 Nov 2020 03:25

dinesh_kimar wrote:
The Gripen, for example, has better reliability than Russian aircraft, and it's not technologically out of reach for Russia.

Cash and sales are not the problem, the Russians are highly corrupt, each Billion in sales probably gets eaten away quickly, and they cannot improve their country much.
How do you know the relative reliability of Grippen and Su when it can only be known from systematic intelligence data. But continue to fantasize and live in your own virtual world. :lol: Unfortunately, due to Anglo-Saxon arrogance, there are very few balanced English-speaking reporting from Russia about the simple everyday life of large Russian cities, where 80% of the population lives. The biased video sequence, including filming from the backward villages of Siberia, forms a picture that is convenient for fake visionaries like you. Instead repeating the well known Anglo-Saxon political mythology better watch the report of this honest British journalist about Moscow, maybe something will change in your mood.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby pandyan » 01 Nov 2020 07:49

Igorr ji - one problem i notice is lack of people-people interaction between indians and russians. Whereas, in almost all western countries, there is a large population of Indian professionals and vice versa. When I was growing up, SU was viewed as a good friend and source of great math and physics books. Today, I think Russia is viewed mainly as a provider of military wares. Problems with Aircraft Carrier tarnished the image quite a bit.

The quoted poster also once claimed that Mig21 landing speed is 700KM/h :mrgreen:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby nandakumar » 01 Nov 2020 10:32

pandyan wrote:Igorr ji - one problem i notice is lack of people-people interaction between indians and russians. Whereas, in almost all western countries, there is a large population of Indian professionals and vice versa. When I was growing up, SU was viewed as a good friend and source of great math and physics books. Today, I think Russia is viewed mainly as a provider of military wares. Problems with Aircraft Carrier tarnished the image quite a bit.

The quoted poster also once claimed that Mig21 landing speed is 700KM/h :mrgreen:

I completely agree. Russia missed a trick by not nurturing and sustaining existing links created by Soviet Union. At least so far as India is concerned. Granted that the first couple of years after the break up of Soviet Union were difficult years for Russia. But Russia could have easily caught up thereafter. I mean, how much would it have cost Russia to keep the Tal Chess Club in Chennai going? A club that not only produced a World Chess Champion in Viswanathan Anand but countless IM norm players.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Dilbu » 01 Nov 2020 11:58

Prospective Russia-China military alliance can impact Delhi-Moscow ties: Top Russian expert
NEW DELHI: Top Russian foreign policy and strategic affairs experts have opined that a prospective military alliance between Moscow and Beijing would adversely impact traditional partnership with India and is therefore impractical. Russian President Vladimir Putin had recently speculated that a military alliance between Moscow and China is possible, although both sides "in general" have no need for it.

Signing formal military alliance with China would be impractical for Russia, it will tie Russia’s hands and force other traditional partners of Russia, India in particular, to cooperate closer with the US, according to Carnegie Moscow Center director Dmitry Trenin.

"Russia has no need to strike a formal military alliance with China against the United States now. Such union would tie hands of both parties, and would scare the neighbors, India in particular, who would be forced to abandon partnership with Russia and cooperate closer with the US," Trenin pointed out, reported Russian official news agency Itar Tass.

Besides, a formal alliance would raise question of hierarchy within the allied structures. According to Trenin a true military alliance of Russia and China would be feasible only in case of the US attack on both countries at the same time.

"It is possible to speculate that, in case of the US’s [military] aggression against Russia, China, while supporting Russia politically, would refrain from taking part in the war. In my opinion, this is exactly how [we] should react to a military clash between the US and China, which seems to become more and more probable," the expert said.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby darshhan » 01 Nov 2020 19:57

Anybody who says Russia doesn't produce quality stuff is smoking quality stuff. From S-400/500 to formidable submarines(both nuclear and conventional) to fighter aircraft(sukhoi and mikoyan) to infantry weapons like RPGs, most feared RPO shmel and ofcourse the ever popular kalashnikovs. Those who have been at the other end of these weapons will testify like Americans in vietnam war and isis in syria. Their lot of capabilities are also unknown to many like their impressive Electronic warfare capabilities which have been effectively put to use in both Ukraine and Syria. In fact now most of their tactical weapons are heavily battle tested.

Yes the decade of 90's was very turbulent phase for them. Their military industrial complex had to undergo a rebuilding phase which is still an ongoing process. Do also keep in perspective that their budgets for R&D would be a fraction of that of US. In some areas they are behind NATO countries like Jet engines or leveraging information and communication technologies in warfare. But overall they are good.

Their problem doesn't lie in military R&D/production. Their main issue is having children to stave off a possible demographic collapse. Manufacturing weapons is easy for them. On the other hand creating babies is a challenge. This assumes even more importance if you see the percentage of muslims in Russia which is more than 20% now. I.e more than India

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Philip » 01 Nov 2020 20:16

There was a recent list of the world's 40 best subs by sub expert Sutton. Top 6.
1.Ohio with a massive 140+ missiles.
2.Yasen-2. 72 missiles,etc.
3.Oscar-2 with 50+,100 planned.
4.Seawolf.
5.Akula-2
5.Sierra-2.

In the conv.AIP list further down the order, rankings were given according to no. of weaponry carried. I am a bit puzzled by this system as some heavy load carriers may be quite noisy,like the Collins class of Oz. I suppose it could be better called the most "powerful" subs. Bunched together inthe 24/27 etc. where current favourite types like Kilos,Lada,etc. U-boats and Scorpenes lower becos of smaller payloads.,

But Putin's latest strat. weapons revealed last year,the UW nuclear torpedo,Avantgarde missile, hypersonic LRCMs, etc. show that Russia has a crucial lead in some cutting edge weaponry.
Only the uninformed will write off Ru weaponry.Read veteran expert Peter Butowski too onthe most dangerous Ru aircraft.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Dilbu » 02 Nov 2020 01:02

Russia fulfills India`s defence requirements list handed over in June
New Delhi: Russia has fulfilled requirements related to India's defence equipment list handed over in the month of June. Sources confirming the development said that India’s defence requirements included light guns, projectiles, bombs.


A number of contracts were signed during the summer to implement the Indian requirement. While the status of the shipment is not known yet, the requirement was by March 2021.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 02 Nov 2020 23:18

nandakumar wrote: Russia missed a trick by not nurturing and sustaining existing links created by Soviet Union. At least so far as India is concerned. Granted that the first couple of years after the break up of Soviet Union were difficult years for Russia. But Russia could have easily caught up thereafter.

Yes. I completely agree that Russia's activity towards India has been sluggish. Suffice it to compare the number of Putin's meetings with Merkel and that of him with Indian leaders. I think that the reason is the underestimation of the prospects for India's position in the new century World and the traditional Eurocentrism of politics, which has not vanished until now. However, one can see also problems on the Indian side of the field. So, despite the fact that Russia has always supported India's position on the Kashmir issue (I remember that on all the maps, back in school, we learned that Kashmir is a completely Indian state, partially occupied by Pakistan), Delhi still hesitates to recognize Russian Crimea . If I'm wrong, let them correct me. I think the solution is for media figures in Russia and India to more actively lobbying for the accelerated development of mutual cooperation between two states.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vivek K » 03 Nov 2020 01:45

Well - Igorr, Russia needs to define and frame its engagement with China and Pakistan better. The JF-17 flies on Russian engines and China is provided latest Russian hardware - S-400, Su-30/35. India has been loyal to Russia longer than any other nation. The Gorshkov deal and the Mig-29ks deal was handled very poorly. I'm sure that India also made mistakes. So there should be a meeting to sort out issues and correct the future partnership.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Nov 2020 09:13

It makes complete sense for Putin to concentrate on the EU and China as both have significantly more trade with Russia than India. In fact, I believe Russia has more trade with the US than with India. India-Russia trade in 2019 was less than $10 billion/annually. There was some talk to get it $30 billion/annually by 2025, but remains to be seen.

Waxing nostalgic about the past means little now. Cooperating yes, but anything more than that doesn't bring any benefit.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vivek K » 03 Nov 2020 10:53

Exactly - just like blaming the Gorshkov fiasco on Indian negotiating does not help the relationship.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 03 Nov 2020 20:03

Vivek K wrote:Well - Igorr, Russia needs to define and frame its engagement with China and Pakistan better. The JF-17 flies on Russian engines and China is provided latest Russian hardware - S-400, Su-30/35. India has been loyal to Russia longer than any other nation. The Gorshkov deal and the Mig-29ks deal was handled very poorly. I'm sure that India also made mistakes. So there should be a meeting to sort out issues and correct the future partnership.
80% of China's military technology has Western roots, which nowhere interfere the Indo-US bonhomie . In electronics, there is is 100% core American technology and American training of Chinese students. The United States continues to be the main source of high-tech knowledge and skills for China, despite Trump's high-flown words. Your American friends have trained hundreds of thousands of Chinese specialists on their territory, and they sell electronic components to China for 100 times more than for India and Russia together. They sell China all the most advanced chips, which they never sold to Russia, for example. I'm not even talking about the scale of US military cooperation with Pakistan. Do you want Russia to not even sell engines to China? This is not serious.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby m_saini » 03 Nov 2020 21:19

Igorr wrote:80% of China's military technology has Western roots, which nowhere interfere the Indo-US bonhomie . In electronics, there is is 100% core American technology and American training of Chinese students. The United States continues to be the main source of high-tech knowledge and skills for China, despite Trump's high-flown words. Your American friends have trained hundreds of thousands of Chinese specialists on their territory, and they sell electronic components to China for 100 times more than for India and Russia together. They sell China all the most advanced chips, which they never sold to Russia, for example. I'm not even talking about the scale of US military cooperation with Pakistan. Do you want Russia to not even sell engines to China? This is not serious.


This is true. US is far more responsible for cheen being what it is today than any of the Russian engines.

And if we feel cheated in the relationship with Russia, then the fault lies with us. Nobody forced us to buy the Russian "junk" weapons. Actually Russia was the only one willing to help when our leaders were busy with their "world's spiritual leader" and "non-aligned" wet-dreams. We were/are never fully aligned with the Russians for the to treat us like an actual ally. Just seems like we want to maintain our neutrality and still want to be treated like a god.

We feel no need to bad-mouth the French or the swedish or the US for selling weapons to the pukis so why place the blame solely on Russians? I feel that's very unjustified.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby titash » 03 Nov 2020 21:51

Vivek K wrote:Well - Igorr, Russia needs to define and frame its engagement with China and Pakistan better. The JF-17 flies on Russian engines and China is provided latest Russian hardware - S-400, Su-30/35. India has been loyal to Russia longer than any other nation. The Gorshkov deal and the Mig-29ks deal was handled very poorly. I'm sure that India also made mistakes. So there should be a meeting to sort out issues and correct the future partnership.


I broadly agree with Igorr here. All countries have permanent interests and not permanent friends or allies.

India & Russia:
(1) do not share common borders and have no territorial disputes
(2) unlike the RoP'ers, India's largely dharmic population feels no need to conquer and convert other people whom we come in contact with - ergo, Indians largely have mutually beneficial engagements with other folks including Russians
(3) India is a large market for defense goods thanks to its neighbors

Overall, India and Russia will always maintain a decent harmonious relationship that can be tempered by political skulduggery and irritants like the RD-33 sales to Pakistan and Su-30/35 sales to China and the Gorshkov (business related) issues

We have to accept that the cold war is over, China is a new superpower in town, and both us and the Russians will play the game to further our permanent interests. No need to get emotional.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Prem » 06 Nov 2020 10:51

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... r-BB1aJUIB
Vladimir Putin will quit in January amid fears he has Parkinson's disease, Moscow sources have claimed.
The 68-year-old strongman president of Russia is being urged to retire by his former gymnast lover Alina Kabaeva, 37, insiders say.
Recent footage of Putin's legs moving around as he gripped onto the armrest of a chair have raised eyebrows.
Eyes are also drawn to a twitching pen in the former KGB operative's fingers and a cup which analysts told The Sun was filled with painkillers.Earlier this week it emerged that unexpected legislation was being rushed through to ensure that Putin could be made a senator-for-life.Others have previously noted his 'gunslinger's gait' – a clearly reduced right arm swing compared to his left, giving him a lilting swagger.
An asymmetrically reduced arm swing is a classic feature of Parkinson's and can manifest in 'clinically intact subjects with a predisposition to later develop' the disease, according to the British Medical Journal.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 06 Nov 2020 23:54

If this is true then the postponed Modi-Putin meet in India will not happen and the deal to manufacture (assemble) AK 203 rifles in India will be delayed further.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Vips » 10 Nov 2020 20:36

First Turkey shoots down a Russian warjet and openly threatens it against further escalation and now Azerbaijan treats Russia with contempt after shooting down its chopper. What next for Russia - Tuvalu giving it a few jhapads? :lol:

Imagine the dire straits Russia will be in when China openly starts encroaching and occupying its eastern territories and mineral rich Siberia. Russia's position right now is akin to worse then what was of Bahadur Shah Zafar during the British Rule. The emperor is naked behind the flashy gown :rotfl:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby darshhan » 10 Nov 2020 20:59

Prem wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-will-quit-in-jan-amid-fears-he-has-parkinsons-sources-claim/ar-BB1aJUIB
Vladimir Putin will quit in January amid fears he has Parkinson's disease, Moscow sources have claimed.
The 68-year-old strongman president of Russia is being urged to retire by his former gymnast lover Alina Kabaeva, 37, insiders say.
Recent footage of Putin's legs moving around as he gripped onto the armrest of a chair have raised eyebrows.
Eyes are also drawn to a twitching pen in the former KGB operative's fingers and a cup which analysts told The Sun was filled with painkillers.Earlier this week it emerged that unexpected legislation was being rushed through to ensure that Putin could be made a senator-for-life.Others have previously noted his 'gunslinger's gait' – a clearly reduced right arm swing compared to his left, giving him a lilting swagger.
An asymmetrically reduced arm swing is a classic feature of Parkinson's and can manifest in 'clinically intact subjects with a predisposition to later develop' the disease, according to the British Medical Journal.


Deep state article. Yes he is 68 yeas article and will obviously not be the same as he was 20 years earlier but this article is stretching things too far.

Maybe Putin saheb can consider a stint at patanjali yoga center at Hardwar or Bihar school of yoga at Munger for general health benefits. Also Indian style vegetarian food along with cutting of meat from diet would give him lot of physical benefits.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Cyrano » 11 Nov 2020 00:37

During the 80s, copies of a Russian current affairs magazine in English called "Soviet Union" and a children's magazine called "Misha" were distributed free in schools for some years - not sure by whom, and at some point around 87/88 they disappeared mysteriously without a trace. Both propaganda rags but interesting reading. One could also find some communist eulogy literature in bookshops at that time, that too vanished.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby S_Madhukar » 11 Nov 2020 02:19

Yup I remember Misha - saw some old ones in my local library in the 90s ... print quality was surprisingly good and some of it quite good but never thought of it as a commie propaganda as I was just 10-11 years old.. I felt proud I was reading something non-American ...those were the days ;-)

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan M » 11 Nov 2020 02:21

Misha had amazing production standards. There was a Russian book house in most cities where you could get these mags.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Dilbu » 12 Nov 2020 17:33

Blow to China, Pakistan as Russia backs India at SCO meet
New Delhi: Russia has come out in support of India noting that bilateral matters should not be raised at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) forum. The development comes after Pakistan attempted to raise India-Pakistan matters at the virtual meet.

The Russian Deputy Envoy to Delhi, Roman N Babushkin, in response to a question by WION, said, "This is a part of SCO charter and SCO basic documents not to bring the bilateral issue into the agenda. It has been made clear to all members states that it should be avoided...for the sake of the progress of multilateral cooperation."

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 13 Nov 2020 17:43

S_Madhukar wrote:Yup I remember Misha - saw some old ones in my local library in the 90s ... print quality was surprisingly good and some of it quite good but never thought of it as a commie propaganda as I was just 10-11 years old.. I felt proud I was reading something non-American ...those were the days ;-)
I also read something as a child: in the USSR it was officially possible to buy the American magazine 'America' in Russian. I, too, did not understand then that this was pure imperialist propaganda, 'hybrid war device' and 'fake news' in current terminology. I really enjoyed reading it and it was a very interesting magazine. Just in the late 80s, he also disappeared from the shelves, apparently the funds for anti-Soviet propaganda ran out haha. In fact, these magazines were published as part of the Helsinki agreements on human rights. All gonna its end, even cold wars.
darshhan wrote:
Prem wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-will-quit-in-jan-amid-fears-he-has-parkinsons-sources-claim/ar-BB1aJUIB


Deep state article. ..

Exactly! To distract attention from Biden's rather precarious health, they invent flashy media stories about Putin. 'Fake news' at its most naked, in my opinion.


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