Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

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Postby shyamd » 03 Feb 2008 06:07

Egypt and Hamas are going to share the border in a joint mechanism. Hamas rule has got recognition from Egypt. Mubarak has stopped his sanctions against Hamas. The Izzedin al Qassam will now operate the Rafah terminal, palestinians will continue to flow in and out of egypt. However, Mubarak has been able to convince Hamas to allow some PA presence back into the border. But in the public it will look like Egypt is in complete control of the border, but in actual fact it will be under joint control.

Hamas don't mind the EU guards to come back (Even though they don't do much anyway). But Hamas is insisting on Russian presence on the border. Russia still operates a mission in Gaza.

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Postby Gerard » 03 Feb 2008 19:20


G Subramaniam
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Postby G Subramaniam » 03 Feb 2008 20:24



Some excerpts below

wonder what Gandhi and Nehru would make of the recent launch of an Israeli spy satellite by India. Even though the Indian government has been rather coy about this whole spooky business, Israel itself has reassured its people that the satellite would help it spy on Iran, Syria and ‘other enemies of Israel’ in the Middle East.

You don’t have to be a genius to know who Israel’s enemies are. In other words, the whole Arab and Muslim world has come under the hawk eyes of this satellite. What was the Indian government thinking? Are we now going to spy on our friends for Israel?

---

India’s ties with the Middle East go way back in time, even before Islam. These relations have developed and strengthened over the past thousand years or so, thanks to India’s large Muslim community

Taqiyah special he does not explain the qualitative difference in relationship pre-islam and post islam

--


No wonder the whole Arab and Muslim world, including Iran, has always seen India as a great friend and ally

Which is why they support pakistan
---


Finally some threats

I think we should ignore the threats because 75% of gulf workers are non-hindus and we have too much foreign exchange



But even if this new love of Indian leadership for Israel is driven by the national interest, it’s overlooking some fundamental facts at a great cost to India’s long-term geopolitical interests.

In case the memory of the South Bloc mandarins has deserted them, here are some home truths to refresh it:

The Middle East is home to a large Indian population. In fact, it is the biggest Indian diaspora, much bigger than our more pampered cousins in the U.S. and Europe. While the people of Indian origin in the West are never likely to return home for good, Indians in the Persian Gulf region eventually go home. More important, the Indians in the Persian Gulf region are the biggest single source of vital foreign exchange for their country.

---

Ignoring how the chinese screw internal muslims

India is snapping out of its historical ties with the Muslim world? Just look at China. Why do you think it’s bending over backwards to woo the Arabs and Iranians?

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Postby Adux » 03 Feb 2008 21:04

GS,

You didnt spot CPM's Karat as the greatest Indian Leader alive today!!!! hoohah.Sad he is again a malayalee, what a stain on my community..what a stain on my nation.
Between that article is crap served.

Adu

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Postby Tilak » 04 Feb 2008 03:21

Israel Tests 1st Radar-Imagery Satellite
By BARBARA OPALL-ROME
[quote]

TEL AVIV, Israel — Israeli defense and industry leaders anxiously are awaiting the planned operational certification of TecSAR, the nation’s first radar imaging satellite, which was inserted into orbit Jan. 21 by an Indian Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle.
By Feb. 3, sources here say, initial streams of TecSAR-generated synthetic aperture radar imagery are expected to reach the government’s secure ground station on the campus of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), builder of the 300-kilogram satellite and its multi-mode payload.
TecSAR’s launch from the Sriharikota site on the Bay of Bengal in southeast India was executed under a commercial contract between IAI and Antrix, the commercial arm of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).
In a statement following the early morning launch, Antrix Executive Director K.R. Sridharamurthy said the satellite was successfully placed into its intended orbit 19 minutes after liftoff. TecSAR is in an orbit with a 41-degree inclination relative to the equator. The perigee, or point closest to Earth, is 450 kilometers and the apogee, or most distant point, is 580 kilometers.
“This satellite can operate in any inclination and at a wide range of altitudes,â€

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Postby Anujan » 04 Feb 2008 23:05

Israel Hit by First Suicide Attack in More Than a Year From Nytimes

One of two Palestinian suicide bombers from Gaza who apparently sneaked into Israel from the Egyptian Sinai blew himself up at a shopping center in this southern desert town on Monday. He killed an Israeli woman and wounded 11 people, medical officials said.
The Egyptian authorities have reported the arrest of more than a dozen Palestinian militants carrying weapons and explosives in the Sinai Peninsula, close to the border with Gaza, over the past few days.


Egypt-hamas tango producing the predictable unfortunate results :cry:

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Postby ramana » 04 Feb 2008 23:24

[quote="bala"]Gola tries his best to hook up with the Israelis but they remind him of Iran.
A chance meeting: Pakistan
[quote]The Foreign Ministry said on Monday it was “unawareâ€

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Anti-Jewish messages in catholic prayer

Postby G Subramaniam » 06 Feb 2008 21:49

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0800325.htm

Italian newspaper says pope to change Tridentine prayer for Jews

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI has decided to reformulate a Good Friday prayer in the 1962 Roman Missal that was offensive to Jews, according to an Italian newspaper.

The new prayer will drop all reference to the "blindness" of the Jews in refusing Christ as savior, the newspaper, Il Giornale, reported Jan. 18.

The Vatican did not officially confirm the report, but sources said privately that a rewriting of the prayer was likely and could be made public soon.

The issue arose last year when the pope liberalized use of the 1962 missal, known popularly as the Tridentine rite. The missal contains a prayer for the conversion of Jews, recited on Good Friday.

While the prayer would not be recited in most parishes, particular Catholic communities devoted to the old rite could use it in Good Friday liturgies.

The prayer for Jews in the 1962 missal is part of a series of prayers for the conversion of non-Christians. It reads:

"Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may take the veil from their hearts and that they also may acknowledge Our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, you do not refuse your mercy even to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer for the blindness of that people so that they may acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be delivered from their darkness
."

Although the 1962 missal no longer contains a reference to "perfidious Jews," which was dropped in 1959, the text of the Good Friday prayer and the possibility of its wider use brought objections from Jewish leaders.

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Postby shyamd » 08 Feb 2008 04:27

Saudi Arabia, asks Egypt to take out Hamas because if left un-checked they are going to go crazy. Urgent messages exchanged between their capitals.

Egyptian foreign minister says: "Anyone who breaches the border will have their legs broken."

I think Saud el Arab realised that Hamas ideology is also a threat to them and their power.

Rumour has it that the King asked Hosni bhai to "retake Gaza".

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Postby Rahul Shukla » 10 Feb 2008 10:22

‘Israel helped India turn around Kargil war’ (Daily Times)[quote]NEW DELHI: The Israeli ambassador in New Delhi has said his country’s assistance to India “brought about the turnaroundâ€

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Postby Nayak » 10 Feb 2008 18:51

Purefool uvacha in atimes.

[url=http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JB08Df03.html]
India shoots out of Iran's orbit
[/url]

By Praful Bidwai

NEW DELHI - India's traditionally friendly relations with Iran have come under unprecedented strain because of the launching of an Israeli spy satellite by an Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) rocket.

This comes in addition to recent tensions caused by India's refusal to attend talks to complete a commercial deal on a proposed Iran-India-Pakistan gas pipeline.

The satellite, launched a fortnight ago, is equipped with a synthetic aperture radar, which captures images of small as well as large objects day and night while penetrating cloud cover. It is widely believed to be designed to enable Israel to track activities



in its neighborhood, in particular, activities pertaining to Iran's nuclear program.

On Tuesday, Seyed Mahdi Nabizadeh, Iran's ambassador in New Delhi, publicly regretted India's assistance in lifting off the TECSAR satellite in a hush-hush manner from a launching pad in southern Andhra Pradesh state on January 21.

The Indian government justified the launch on technical and commercial grounds. But Nabizadeh said, "We hope the issue could be considered from the political point of view also. Our relationship with India is very strong and good. Many are trying to destroy [that] relationship. We hope that wise and independent countries such as India would not give their space technology to other countries to launch instruments for spying against friendly countries like Iran."

Nabizadeh added, "The United States continues to be hostile [to Iran], and even today is trying to create problems between Iran and its friendly countries. We expect friendly countries to realize this ..."

Although Iran has not conveyed its view to New Delhi at the official level, the ambassador said, "Informally, yes, we have had a discussion."

"The fact that the Iranian ambassador chose to go public on this issue shows that Tehran takes it seriously and is deeply uncomfortable with India's close collaboration with Israel in the military and space fields," Qamar Agha, an expert based at the Center for West Asian Studies at Jamia Millia Islamia University in the capital, told Inter Press Service.

The Indian authorities could not have been unaware of Iran's sensitivity on the spy satellite issue. The Israeli media have reported, quoting military sources in Jerusalem, that the TECSAR satellite, developed by Israel Aerospace Industries, is meant to keep a watch on Iran's nuclear activities.

The development of the satellite and its preparation for being lifted into a space orbit were shrouded in secrecy. Its launch, originally scheduled for September last year, was postponed, apparently for political reasons.

Describing the TECSAR launch as "spectacular", ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair said on January 21 that it was a "red letter day" for Antrix Corporation, ISRO's marketing and commercial arm. He added that the lift-off had been a difficult mission: "We had to almost go along the equatorial path, and then do a difficult maneuver to achieve [it]."

Reacting to reports that TECSAR was a "spy" satellite, Nair feigned ignorance of the content of its payload. But he said there is no such category as "spy satellites" because all imaging satellites have a multitude of purposes. India too is developing a radar imaging satellite, likely to be launched next year.

"The Indian government is clearly divided between its formal position that Iran's current nuclear activities are legitimate and its keenness to develop a close partnership with Israel," says Achin Vanaik, professor of international relations and global politics at Delhi University.

"New Delhi is schizophrenic," said Vanaik. "It maintains that Iran has the right to develop peaceful nuclear technology subject to inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA]. But India also wants an alliance with the US and Israel which both oppose any nuclear activity on Iran's part, including uranium enrichment for power generation. India has recently allowed its new strategic relationship with the US and Israel to prevail over its traditional friendship with Iran."

India twice voted against Iran at the IAEA - in contravention of New Delhi's own position that Iran is not in breach of any of its obligations under the IAEA or the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Stephen Rademaker, a former US assistant secretary of state for international security and non-proliferation and a senior arms control negotiator, said a year ago in Delhi that India's votes were secured through "coercion", presumably by Washington.

The US strongly opposes the Iran-India-Pakistan gas pipeline project, and has publicly warned India that it could face sanctions if it goes ahead with the deal, which is considered highly attractive for its energy economics.

Besides the much-touted "strategic partnership" with the US, India has developed a close political and military relationship with Israel, with which it established full diplomatic relations only in 1992. This has entailed a huge shift away from India's traditional support for the cause of Palestinian nationhood.

"Shamefully," says Vanaik, "India has not uttered a word against Israel's recent blockade and collective punishment of the people of Gaza. At this rate, India will fail to play an independent role in the most important and volatile region of the world."

Over the past few years, India has become Israel's biggest client in the global arms market. Between 2000 and 2006, India bought military hardware and software worth US$7 billion from Israel. This included a $1 billion deal for the Falcon early warning system and smaller contracts for unmanned surveillance aircraft.

In 2006, India signed a $480 million contract with Israel to develop a "next generation" Barak missile for its navy. This was followed last year by a $2.5 billion deal to develop anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems based on the Green Pine radar. This is the biggest military contract in the history of Israel.

India-Israel collaboration is not limited to arms deals. It extends to military and space research and development across a broad range, including surveillance satellite technology and electronic warfare, and upgrading of Soviet-era equipment including fighter jets, field guns and helicopters.

The two states are also widely believed to share military intelligence, especially pertaining to Pakistan and Islamic militants. Israel's Mossad secret service is thought to have trained India's external intelligence agencies and a special protection group that guards important people.

The proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline is likely to be a major casualty of India's increasingly close relations with the US and Israel. India has turned down several invitations since July last year to participate in talks to clinch the pipeline deal, which has run into a dispute over periodic price revision.

"New Delhi is making a big mistake," holds Agha. "The price revision issue can be easily sorted out by give-and-take. If the deal is further delayed, India could lose the pipeline and natural gas, probably to China. The Turkmenistan to Afghanistan to Pakistan to India pipeline for which Washington is rooting is no substitute for it."

Yet, India's Petroleum Minister Murli Deora announced this week that he will not attend the trilateral talks in Islamabad, planned for February 12 or 13, to discuss the price issue. "India's collaboration with the US and Israel is likely to extract a much higher political and economic price than imagined earlier," warns Agha.

(Inter Press Service)



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Postby gogna » 10 Feb 2008 23:56

India with Israel in M-East Crisis?

[quote]
India with Israel in M-East Crisis?

DR. S. AUSAF SAIED VASFI narrates how India has abandoned its just and moral policy towards Palestinians and is becoming a willing partner in the Israeli oppression against Palestinians.

Following the launch of an 800-kg Israeli spy satellite into orbit from Sriharikota on January 22, many a dimension of Indo-Israeli cooperation in the field of defence and both internal and external security, has come to light and is under scrutiny.

This so-called “commercial cooperationâ€

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Radiance Weekly

Postby G Subramaniam » 11 Feb 2008 02:05

The above article was posted in Radiance weekly, the mouth piece of the Jamaat-e-islami in India

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Postby svinayak » 11 Feb 2008 07:59

gogna wrote:India with Israel in M-East Crisis?


India with Israel in M-East Crisis?

Let the various Muslim parties, after proper consultation, call an All-India convention on the Indo-Israeli defence cooperation and its dangerous implications and ramifications for Asia.



Let them sit down and discuss the Kashmir issue and make sure that no terrorists enter India.

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Postby Anujan » 11 Feb 2008 09:24

Acharya wrote:Let them sit down and discuss the Kashmir issue and make sure that no terrorists enter India.
A rant first: what is the reason for pro-islamic articles to refer to India consistently as "Bharat" ? Is it some kinda hint that "India" refers to the pre-partition entity and post partition neither "Bharat", "Pakistan" or "Bangladesh" can lay exclusive claim to the heritage, culture and history of "India" ? Any gyaan anyone ?

As it was noted in several posts in this thread before, A huge section of Indian policy makers were uncomfortable supporting the creation of Israel in the 1940's. This was because, we opposed religion-based justification for partitioning lands motivated by our own horrifying experiences of partition. (This is just a statement of fact, no arguments/debates about this please - we just concluded a hugely tiring dozens of posts arguing this very point). From that position, what happened that made India change its position a 180 degrees and sympathize with Israel ? Why doesn't any pro-Islamic article or organization ever go into this ? India, after all, is not an irrational country....

Can it be because whereas India's help is courted by the Islamic countries for the Palestinian cause, in spite of our huge muslim population, we are never one of the "them" (we are excluded from OIC) ? Inspired by this, can it be because of Egypt's leadership in OIC to try and get an anti-India pro Pakistan resolution passed about Kashmir (Pakistan is one of them we are not so pander to Pakistan) ? Can it be because of the attitude of Islamic countries justifying violence as a legitimate political tool especially against "non-islamic" countries (India and Israel are both victims of this) ? Maybe we should drop support to Israel and support the hamas instead. Oh wait, they are funded by the Saudis, who are funding the terror infrastructure which are killing Indian citizens, supply free oil to Pakistan and Israel supported us during Kargil war. Very tough choice here between Hamas and Israel here huh ?

Either it should be the case that we are the enemy (for suppressing jihad in Kashmir) so expect no quarters from us, or we are friends (so no jihadis in kashmir or flying paki flag on the red fort). OIC and whoever cannot have it both ways, gloating when we bleed, shedding tears when we dont support them. Somebody please send the author a towel, kick his musharaaf tell him this is how life is.

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Postby JE Menon » 11 Feb 2008 16:28

>>"India shoots out of Iran orbit"...

Odd. I don't recall that we ever orbited Iran, not since independence anyways... What next? India shoots out of Saudi orbit?

Jackass

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Karat wants Israel spy sat debate in Parliament

Postby gandharva » 11 Feb 2008 22:07

Karat wants Israel spy sat debate in Parliament

By Our Special Correspondent

Hyderabad, Feb. 10: Communist Party of India (Marxist) general secretary Prakash Karat on Sunday demanded that the Centre explain to the country the reasons for launching the Israeli spy satellite TecSar.

Referring to reports in the Israeli media that the satellite would be utilised to spy on Muslim countries, the CPI(M) leader said Iran, Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan would come under its scanner. "The government must submit a detailed report on the satellite and its activities," he told mediapersons.

The Indian Space Research Organisation recently launched the satellite from its Sriharikota facility.

Maintaining that Israel was planning to launch two more spy satellites, Mr Karat demanded that the Centre not allow such launches. He said Israel wanted to target and attack countries with whom India has friendly relations.

"Why should we provide a platform for this and help Israel at the cost of friendly ties with other countries? Any security tie-up with Israel is against independent foreign policy," he said.





http://www.asianage.com/presentation/leftnavigation/news/top-story/karat-wants-israel-spy-sat-debate-in-parliament.aspx

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Postby shyamd » 12 Feb 2008 01:15

Debka reports: Barak Has told the IDF to prepare for large scale military assault on Gaza.

An Israeli infantry unit last week discovered for the first time new underground silos and timers for shooting missiles by remote control, making the launches and crews harder than ever to detect by air surveillance drones. Military sources believed they were installed with the help of the Lebanese Hizballah.
I had mentioned before the activity of Hezbollah and how there are new fortifications, Hamas is learning from the Hezbollah experience with the help of Iranian engineers.

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Postby ramana » 12 Feb 2008 22:19

Please look up
"Theologians under Hitler" Robert Ericksen

The premise of the book is that all of the Church was involved in the anti-Semitism and not just H's personal point of view. To date only the Catholics were named due to Pope Pius's silence on Nazi activities. This book and the documentary point to the Protestants also and their acquiesense.

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Postby derkonig » 12 Feb 2008 22:50

wrong dhaaga

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Postby Gerard » 13 Feb 2008 03:41

'Let's make our own rockets'
A new Facebook group is urging Sderot residents to use the Internet to learn how to build crude rockets, much like the Kassams launched at them from the Gaza Strip, and fire them back at the Palestinians.
The group's creators, Shai and Batya Messenberg from Petah Tikva, posted a description that reads: "It cannot be so difficult: If those retards from the Gaza Strip can do it then so can you."
The description encourages residents of the town to trawl the Net for information on how to build ballistic missiles from materials found in the home. "I'm sure that very soon they [the Gazans] will get the message," the group's creator wrote.

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Postby Sadler » 13 Feb 2008 04:46

ramana wrote:Please look up
"Theologians under Hitler" Robert Ericksen

........... involved in the anti-Setism......... Protestants also and their acquiesense.


Protestant anti-semitism started with Martin Luther.
PS. Thank you for the reference. I do not have this book.

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Martin Luther book - On the Jews and their lies

Postby G Subramaniam » 13 Feb 2008 06:34

Sadler wrote:
ramana wrote:Please look up
"Theologians under Hitler" Robert Ericksen

........... involved in the anti-Setism......... Protestants also and their acquiesense.


Protestant anti-semitism started with Martin Luther.
PS. Thank you for the reference. I do not have this book.


http://nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

Martin Luther's dirty little book:
On the Jews and their lies
A precursor to Nazism
by Jim Walker

Originated: 07 Aug. 1996
Additions: 20 Nov. 2005

Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a level never before seen in Europe. Luther bore the influence of his upbringing and from anti-Jewish theologians such as Lyra, Burgensis, (and John Chrysostom, before them). But Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler's Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther's desires to a tee.

...

On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity.
...

he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today..

Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools...

Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people.

...their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain.


Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them



Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security

...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

...

And much much more

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Postby Rudranathh » 13 Feb 2008 18:41

This was posted in the Nukkad thread by Skanda. Posting here since the nukkad thread does not get archived.

Indian community in south Israel town enjoy Hindi play funded by U.S. Jew
Last Thursday evening, Dimona residents gathered in the city's Cultural Center to watch a new play. The play, based on the well-known Indian film "Sangam," is in Hindi and the actors are local residents of Indian origin. The hall has 600 seats. The night before, the hall was packed; on this evening, local residents took up two-thirds of the theater.

Production started over a year ago. David Mirage, an American Jewish millionaire, came to the city, was moved by its cultural diversity and decided to donate money to different projects. Director Ilan Greenberg met with Dimona's Indian residents and decided to turn "Sangam" into a play. After staging the play in Dimona, Greenberg started receiving offers to perform it all over Israel.
The audience recognizes the actors as their neighbors. They laugh, critique their fluency in Hindi and occasionally applaud. The plot moves along. Radha rejects Sunder's love and he enlists in the army to become worthy of her. When Gopal and Radha learn that Sunder is dead, they allow themselves to be together. But a short time before their wedding, the reports of Sunder's death are proved false and he returns. Gopal gives up Radha and she and Sunder marry.

During the intermission, the auditorium turns into a sort of little India. The snack bar sells Indian snacks and Indian films are on sale to all interested. The audience soon discovers that the end of the story, unlike in American films, is not a happy one. The director of the community center, Noam Cohen, reveals what everyone who is familiar with the film knows. "The end is bad, all three of them try to commit suicide. Gopal succeeds, and Sunder and Radha remain together. That's how it is in Indian films, friendship is valued above all else."

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Postby shyamd » 13 Feb 2008 22:16

Israel is may sell Ofek sattelite to Turkey for $300 million if all goes well. Barak is in Ankara. US has approved the deal. Senior Washington based Syrian intelligence official and a former israeli minister have met in Ankara three times with Turkish Professor Mancur Akacun, who acts as an informal Ankara government emissary few days before Barak's arrival.

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Muslim men target Jewish women in Israel

Postby G Subramaniam » 17 Feb 2008 06:47

If we extrapolate from this to India, it is very likely that 1 lakh hindu women end up with muslim men each year
( multiply israeli population by 200 )

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/72865

When Israeli Women Marry Arab Men: Third in a Series




(IsraelNN.com) Black eyes. Bruises. Blood. Out of the refuse of a Gaza town, Aliza [all names have been changed] emerged a broken woman. With tears streaming down her face and her body shaking with trauma, Aliza described how she was locked in the home of a man she once thought she loved, treated in ways too crude to print before being left alone to rot.
...


Stories like Aliza's are commonplace. While every woman's tale has a unique flare, the basic plot repeats itself, proving again and again that no matter how in love you think you are, marrying an Arab in Israel means the end of your relationships, the end of your freedom and independence, and sometimes, G-d forbid, the end of your life. Unfortunately, according to Ze'ev Shtigletz who runs Lev L'Achim's assimilation division, no matter how many times girls hear the facts, when they are serenaded and pampered they become convinced that for them things can be different.

FROM ANY SECTOR, FROM ANY HOME

Since the founding of the State of Israel, more than 3,000 Jewish girls have converted to Islam and married Arab men via the Muslim courts, Shtigletz says. Additionally, some 2-3,000 women are married to their Arab counterparts by common-law marriage, while another 10-20,000 girls are dating Arabs at any given time. This last category, says Shtigletz, is an important component of his occupation. The goal is to get the women away from their Arab boyfriends before they become so immersed that they give up their family, friends and ultimately their selves to tie the knot.

It can happen to anyone. While the majority of Jewish women who date and/or marry Arab men are secular, of low socio-economic status and from largely mixed neighborhoods, there are also plenty of examples from high-standing and/or well-educated families, and even from traditional homes. Shtigletz travels across the country lecturing at any school that will have him, reaching out to parents and teachers, urging them to educate their youth. Public schools often refuse, declaring him a bigot, and religious schools frequently deny the problem even exists.

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Re: Martin Luther book - On the Jews and their lies

Postby Sanjay M » 17 Feb 2008 07:04

G Subramaniam wrote:
Sadler wrote:
ramana wrote:Please look up
"Theologians under Hitler" Robert Ericksen

........... involved in the anti-Setism......... Protestants also and their acquiesense.


Protestant anti-semitism started with Martin Luther.
PS. Thank you for the reference. I do not have this book.


http://nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

Martin Luther's dirty little book:
On the Jews and their lies
A precursor to Nazism
by Jim Walker


The Germans have always resorted to religion/sectarianism to shore up their own nationalism, which they have always felt was under threat. That's why I'd compare Germany to some Islamic countries, including Pakistan.

Read about the Holy Roman Empire, and its relations with the German/Teutonic region.

Look at the name of one of their major conservative political parties -- the Christian Democratic Party. So they have the word 'Christian' right there in the party name. You don't see that in the US, or in any of the other Western European countries. Although you do see that in another neighboring Atlanticist country -- Poland.

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Postby Surya » 17 Feb 2008 07:14

err but the Germans and poles hate each other!!!

:D

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Postby Sanjay M » 17 Feb 2008 08:07

True enough. All the more reason for their ex-patriates to stoke up a deeper common hatred of the Russians. Uniting against the outsider, and all that.

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Postby Sadler » 17 Feb 2008 08:09

Surya wrote:err but the Germans and poles hate each other!!!

:D


True. But when it comes to hating the jew, neither have historically taken a back-seat to the other. IOW, they dont have to love each other to hate the jew.

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Postby Sanjay M » 17 Feb 2008 08:47

True again. Another common "enemy" to unite against. Hence, the unnatural fixation against the "enemy", in order to eclipse the local bilateral problems. The Pakjabis do the same kind of scapegoating towards us. That's what helps to keep their patchwork country from falling apart.

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Postby Philip » 20 Feb 2008 13:56

Though this is an Israeli-UK spat,it is of interest merely in the fact that many ex-leaders of major nations (like Gen.Pinochet remember?),if involved in controversial wars might face embarrassing situs when transiting through the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 84407.html
Keeping the peace? The El Al flight and the Israeli army officer

Heathrow airport, September 2005. An Israeli general accused of war crimes flies in. Waiting for him is a team of Met police officers. Would they dare to arrest him and risk provoking an international incident?

Change font size: A | A | ABy Andy McSmith
Wednesday, 20 February 2008

To the average Heathrow traveller, it must have looked like just one of those inexplicable minor commotions that occur sometimes in the world's busiest airports. An El Al flight was standing on the runway, with some passengers still inside. Telephone calls were being made. Messages were passed to and fro. After two hours, the plane took off. No visible drama.


We now know that the story could have turned out very differently. Inside the plane was a senior Israeli army officer, Doron Almog, veteran of some of the most celebrated military operations in the troubled history of the Middle East. There were also armed Israeli sharpshooters.

Outside were officers of the Metropolitan Police, acting reluctantly on an arrest warrant served by a judge at the request of lawyers who wanted to launch a private prosecution against the general.

The question that can never be answered is what would have happened if the police had marched on to the plane to seize the general and haul him before the courts. Possibly, he would have come quietly, and a lot of lawyers would have been kept very busy as the courts weighed what to do next.

A much more sinister possibility is that the Israeli agents on board would have refused to let the general be arrested without putting up resistance. At best, that would have meant an ugly stand off followed by a major diplomatic row. At worst, it could have led to dead bodies aboard the plane.

But now, the police and the Government face some awkward questions, of which the most interesting is who warned the Israelis that there was trouble brewing at Heathrow?

Maj-Gen Almog had planned to visit the UK in September 2005 to pay various social and charitable calls on Jewish communities in Solihull, the West Midlands, and Manchester. As his plane touched down at Heathrow, a call from the Israeli embassy in London warned him that police were waiting to arrest him. The general and his wife refused to leave the plane. Two tense hours elapsed, while Det-Supt John MacBrayne, a senior counter-terrorism officer in charge of the operation, agonised over what to do.

One of his problems, according to documents that have come to light, which were passed to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, was that he was unsure of the legal position. He contacted Scotland Yard for advice on whether he had the authority to order his men aboard the El Al aircraft, when it was clear the airline was not going to give consent. According to the official log: "He was informed that police did indeed board aircraft routinely but it was not clear if this could be done without the consent of the carrier. It was confirmed that El Al were refusing voluntary access to the plane and Det-Supt MacBrayne could not get confirmation that he had a legal right to do so."

But the log also shows that Supt MacBrayne had a problem. As an experienced anti-terrorist officer he knew that El Al aircraft are the most heavily guarded vehicles in the world. The seats on its aircraft are never filled only by ordinary fare-paying passengers. There are always at least a couple of men who are highly trained, heavily armed "air marshals". With a famous major-general on board, there might have been four or five air marshals. These are not people that any police officer would want to mess with.

"DSU MacBrayne took the considered opinion that, as access to the plane would not be consensual, there existed a real threat of an armed confrontation," the log recorded.

Having consulted Commander John McDowall, deputy national co-ordinator of terrorist investigations, the Superintendent decided to allow the plane to go on its way with his quarry still aboard.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has vindicated the police who conducted the operation. But that leaves two big questions unanswered – who tipped off the Israelis, and why did the Met seem to think they did not have the power to board an aircraft on British soil?

The legal position, which seemed to have the Met stumped, was actually straightforward, according to several legal experts who were asked their opinion yesterday. A foreign aircraft is not sovereign territory, and while it is on British soil it is subject to British laws. Even the threat of a shoot-out should not have prevented the police from enforcing the law, Kate Maynard, of the solicitors' firm, Hickman Rose insisted. "Who knows what might have happened?" she said. "It need not have been an armed stand off. They could have stopped the plane from taking off, and brought in negotiators from the Foreign Office. Can you allow people from other countries to put the police in a situation where they can't enforce British law?"

The Anti-Terrorist Branch had been reluctant all along to take any action against the general. They acted only under pressure from Hickman Rose, who represents Palestinian clients, including the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. The lawyers themselves are not Palestinian. Several are Jews, and of those, Daniel Machover is an Israeli citizen – facts that have played big in the Israeli media. Mr Machover has been accused by Israel's most popular newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, of committing "a travesty masquerading as righteousness, exonerating terror-masters from blame but painting those who fight mass murderers as villains".

One of the firm's clients is Abdul Matar, the former inhabitant of one of 59 homes in a Palestinian camp that were bulldozed by the Israelis in 2002 in retaliation for attacks on Israeli soldiers. Another is Ra-ed Mattar, whose wife and daughter were killed when the Israelis dropped a powerful bomb in a crowded part of Gaza in July 2002, killing Sheikh Saleh Shehadeh, a leading Palestinian militant. The bomb killed 14 others including nine children.

Under pressure from the lawyers, the Anti-Terrorist Squad agreed that they would detain the general if he set foot on British soil, and would consider serving him with a warrant, but it would be up to the solicitors to bring a private prosecution. They intended to rely on a 50-year-old act of Parliament, the Geneva Conventions Act, which enshrined the Geneva Convention in British law. No one has ever been prosecuted under that Act.

The Anti-Terrorist Squad was also feeling discreet pressure from the Government to leave the general alone. Supt MacBrayne had had a note from a minister at the Foreign Office – whose name is not revealed in the log – who claimed that there was "little or no evidence" on which to launch a prosecution. Mr MacBrayne felt obliged to contact the Foreign Office and point out this was not true. Hickman Rose had in fact produced evidence that satisfied a magistrate that there was a case for the general to answer at least in relation to the bulldozing of those 59 homes. It also believed it could substantiate three other criminal charges against him.

He is not the only senior Israeli in its sights. Just over a year ago, the Israeli army's former chief of staff, Moshe Ya'alon, was arrested in New Zealand, after Hickman Rose took out a private case against him over the assassination of Sheikh Shehadeh. The case was ruled out by New Zealand's attorney general.

When Tony Blair met Israel's Internal Security Minister, Avi Dichter, last August, in his new role as Middle East peace envoy, he was dumbfounded to learn that Mr Dichter dare not visit the UK, where he too would risk being arrested over the Shehadeh killing. Two others, the Chief of Staff Dan Halutz and a former commander of the Gaza division, Aviv Kochavi, are also keeping away from the UK, for the same reason.

Doron Almog has been a well-known public figure in Israel since 1993, when he was appointed commander of the occupation forces in the Gaza Strip. By then, he had already had a colourful military career. When he was 22, he led a paratrooper unit into action in the Yom Kippur War.

Three years later, in July 1976, he was one of the Israeli commandos who descended suddenly on Entebbe airport, in Uganda, where over 100 crew and passengers of an airbus were being held hostage by Palestinian hijackers. When the shooting stopped, all six hijackers, one commando, three hostages and 45 Ugandan soldiers were dead.

In December 1993, Mr Almog stunned Israel by sensationally announcing that he had met members of Hamas, the militant organisation that is now the elected government of Gaza. Even now, most governments in the world, including the UK, refuse to recognise the Hamas administration, because Hamas will not recognise the state of Israel.

Mr Almog made two seemingly contradictory claims: first that he knew Hamas was preparing to send suicide bombers against Israel, secondly that there was a moderate faction within Hamas with whom Israel could do business. He claimed its hostility to the PLO exceeded its hostility to Israel. Hamas claimed the meeting had never taken place.

Mr Almog has attracted international attention for his role as head of Israel's Southern Command from 2000 to mid 2003, when he was in charge of operations in Gaza, and presided over the demolition of an estimated 1,100 Palestinian homes.

Before his planned UK visit, in September 2005, the police had also been warned that arresting a prominent Israeli might trigger a reaction among British Jews. Their original plan had been to detain General Almog in Solihull, where he was scheduled to speak in the synagogue, but they were warned that that would be inflammatory.

To lessen the tension, they decided a uniformed officer would be the one to make the arrest at Heathrow. Even so, the advice from the Met's National Community Tensions Team was that "this matter was of national significance to the Jewish community... any police action could significantly impact on community confidence in the police."

After the botched arrest, Mr MacBrayne checked with the West Midlands police and the Jewish community and reported that "there had been no local Jewish community issues."

But the Israeli government was enraged that one of its military heroes should be made so unwelcome in the UK, though it was mollified by an apology from the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw. That apology has attracted derision from lawyers.

"He apologised for a judicial process," Mr Maynard said. "This case was not a stunt; it was an effort to bring Almog to justice in a place where he would have a fair trial, because he has complete immunity in Israel. To have it thwarted, and then to have an apology, is incredible."

That being the British Government's attitude, perhaps it is not surprising that somebody, somewhere, took it upon themselves to warn the Israelis that it would save both countries a serious embarrassment if Maj-Gen Almog did not alight from that plane.

PS: I'm sure that the good general would be very welcome in India.Israel is fighting a war against terrorism,where various interest groups are using terrorism to try and obtain political gains,which should rather be argued and debated across a negotiating table.We have similar interest groups active in India sponsored by Islamist forces,especially across our borders.

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Postby shyamd » 22 Feb 2008 19:22

There was a heavy storm on tuesday off the Syrian coast. A Russian Amur 1 Class PM 138 naval boat gave out a distress signal Tuesday. The vessel was on its way from a Syrian port to Sevastopol on the Black Sea when it was thrown off course by the high seas. A Greek Navy frigate responded to the call and escorted the PM 138 to the island of Chios. The Russian Navy spokesmen said the ship’s crew numbered 99. It was unarmed and was heading for home port after a long stay at one of the Syrian Navy’s Mediterranean bases.
Note that the Russian naval vessels are spending long periods running into months at the Syrian military bases of Latakia and Tartous. Remember the Russian Admiral Kutznetsov carrier visited one of the Syrian naval bases, along with the Moskva missile cruiser for military exercises and stuff.

Witnesses in Greece say the vessel, described officially as an auxiliary repair craft, boasted an unusual number of antennas for gathering intelligence. Its mission was clearly to gather information on Israeli military and naval movements while cruising opposite the Israeli coast.

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Postby Gerard » 23 Feb 2008 07:11

Iron Dome system found to be helpless against Qassams
Another question concerns the extent to which decision-makers were influenced by an export deal with a foreign country not among those under the jurisdiction and protection of NATO. Under the deal, said country was to purchase the Iron Dome system and share in financing the project.

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Postby Gerard » 27 Feb 2008 06:56

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/27/israelandthepalestinians]Obituary
Gen Dan Shomron[/url]
Dan Shomron, the Israeli military commander who led the famous Entebbe raid of 1976 when more than 100 airline hostages were rescued from terrorist hijackers, has died, aged 70

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Postby rajkhalsa » 27 Feb 2008 08:53

Turkey offers oil pipe lifeline to India
Feb 27, 2008
By Sudha Ramachandran

BANGALORE - Turkey has offered - during a visit by Foreign Minister Ali Babacan to India this month - to facilitate the supply of oil to India from Central Asia via Israel through a combination of overland pipelines and super tankers.

Under the plan, oil transported through Turkey's extensive pipeline infrastructure from Central Asia to its Ceyhan port would be sent across the Mediterranean Sea by tanker to Israel's port of Ashkelon. There it would be fed into Israel's Ashkelon-Eilat 254-kilometer pipeline. From Eilat port, again by tanker, it would be sent through the Gulf of Aqaba and the Red Sea via the Gulf of Aden and the Arabian Sea to India. Neither Israel nor the US have commented on the proposal.

The Turkish offer holds out the promise of a well-established route by which energy-hungry India could access Central Asian reserves, in contrast to less-practical alternatives.

Image

India imports about 70% of its oil requirements, a dependence that may increase to over 91% by 2020. About 45% of present needs comes from the Gulf Cooperation Council countries - Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates - according to Indian Planning Commission figures, and if one includes oil imports from other parts of the Middle East, the region accounts for about 67% of India's oil imports.

India, anxious to reduce this dependence on the Middle East for its fuel, given the political volatility of the region, is looking to Myanmar and Vietnam in its more immediate neighborhood, Sudan and Nigeria in Africa, and Turkmenistan in Central Asia to secure oil and also gas supplies.

Image

The success of those efforts have been mixed. It won significant stakes in Russia's Sakhalin I oilfields, but lost out - often to China - in bids for assets in Nigeria, Kazakhstan, Myanmar and Canada over the past two years. No less easy have been India's efforts to clinch oil pipeline deals.

A plan to bring gas from Myanmar, to the east, by pipeline through Bangladesh fell apart when Dhaka wanted India in return to agree to a free-trade corridor to Nepal and to remove existing trade barriers between India and Bangladesh. It also demanded what India saw as exorbitant transit fees. India now hopes to route a pipeline from Myanmar that bypasses Bangladesh, running through India's northeastern states before reaching Kolkata.

If the pipeline to India's east has been a non-starter, a plan for one to its west - the Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline - is looking almost as tenuous. Strongly opposed by the US because of Washington's differences with Tehran, the US$7.5 billion IPI pipeline also faces difficulties over Iran's pricing of the oil and transit fees demanded by Pakistan.

The prospects of a $4 billion Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan (TAP) project are slightly brighter, if only because it is backed by the US and international financial institutions. India was invited to join the project last year. On the down side, Turkmenistan, whose total gas output is about 60 billion cubic meters (bcm), recently agreed to increase gas deliveries to Russia's Gazprom to about 50 bcm. That would leave little gas for transport through the TAP pipeline, making it an unviable proposition.

In this context, Turkey's offer to India has considerable potential - at least the pipelines that might bring Central Asian oil to India already exist. The 1,768-kilometer Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which carries a million barrels of oil a day from Azeri and Kazakh oil fields and the Caspian Sea - the world's third-largest oil and gas reserve - to the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, has been in operation since 2006.

The Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline, also known as the Trans-Israel pipeline or Tipline, has been functioning for several years. Built in 1968 to transport oil from Iran - then under the Shah - to Israel, it was largely unused except to carry transshipments of Egyptian oil. In other words, it carried oil from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean. The direction of the flow was reversed a few years ago when Russia began transporting oil through Israel's overland pipeline. It was then picked up by tankers that traveled through the Gulf of Aqaba and the Red Sea to Asian markets.

Using the Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline and the Gulf of Aqaba would let India's supplies skip the Suez route, with several advantages.

Israeli ports, already supplied by super tankers, accommodate larger vessels than those that can pass through the Suez Canal, and tariffs for the Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline are lower than those charged by Egypt for shipping through the Suez, itself a more congested route than the Gulf of Aqaba. Costs could fall further if a proposed undersea pipeline connecting Ceyhan with Israel goes ahead. Babacan said in Delhi that a feasibility report on the project will be conducted soon.

Making Ankara's offer even more attractive to India is that the pipelines involved do not run through Pakistan and are not at risk of being disrupted in the event of a souring of India-Pakistan relations.

A supply deal with Turkey would extend India's links with both that country and Israel. The Indian Oil Corporation has picked up a 12.5% stake in a pipeline from Turkey's Black Sea port of Samsun to the Ceyhan pipeline, while India's ties with Israel have already deepened dramatically over the past decade or so.

Securing oil for the pipeline deal is another matter. India's ambitions to win stakes in the oilfields of Central Asian countries have so far outpaced its achievements.

OMEL, an Indian joint venture of state-run ONGC-Videsh Ltd, the overseas arm of Oil and Natural Gas Corp (ONGC) and Mittal Energy Ltd, has been looking for stakes in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. These are at different stages of progress and a finalization of any deals remains elusive.

In Kazakhstan, after losing to China in 2005 in its effort to buy a Canadian company, PetroKazakhstan, that had stakes in Kazakh oil fields, India is now eyeing a stake in the Satpayev oil block in the Caspian Sea. The Kazakh government is said to be willing to sell 50% to OMEL, with Kazakh national company KazMunaiGaz (KMG) holding the balance.

The Indian Mittal group last year acquired Russian oil firm Lukoil's 50% stake in Caspian Investments Resources for $980 million. The acquisition was initially proposed to be done by OMEL. Mittal has since said that it will transfer the assets to OMEL but ONGC officials are skeptical that it will do so.

In Azerbaijan, Tata Petrodyne Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of India's Tata Sons, has linked up with state refiner Indian Oil Corporation and exploration firm Oil India Ltd to make a bid for a 51% stake in Shivran Oil Operating Company held by Caspian Energy Group (CEG). Shivran runs the Kyurovdag oil field in Azerbaijan. Earlier, OMEL failed with a $300 million bid.

In Turkmenistan, OMEL has acquired a 30% stake in Block No 11 and 12 in the Turkmen sector of the Caspian Sea. Other stakeholders in the block are the Danish company Maersk Oil (36%) and the German company Wintershall 34%.

Sudha Ramachandran is an independent journalist/researcher based in Bangalore.

Copyright 2008 Asia Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved.

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Postby bala » 28 Feb 2008 01:36

Kalam proposes joint investment in space by India, Israel

Tel Aviv (PTI): India and Israel should consider jointly investing up to USD one billion in selected areas in space technology based on their mutual core competence, former Indian President APJ Abdul Kalam said here on Wednesday.

"India and Israel should consider investing in equitable proportion to the tune of $ 1 billion investment for implementing certain selected missions based on the mutual core competence," Kalam, the keynote speaker at Israel Annual Conference on Aerospace Sciences here, told an august audience while laying out his 'World Space Vision 2050'.

Pointing towards the large number of satellites in the geosynchronous orbit leading to a "clutter", Kalam, a renowned rocket scientist, emphasised on the need of immediate steps to enhance cooperation between the space-faring nations.

As a first step towards achieving these goals, Kalam suggested that the Indian and Israel aerospace agencies should consider establishing a world knowledge platform to enable joint design, development, cost effective production and marketing of the aerospace systems and products.

Seeking the creation of a 'World Space Council' to carry out tasks like large-scale societal missions and low-cost access to space, Kalam asked space-capable countries to pool their resources and technical capabilities to tap the potential for the common benefit of the mankind.

"Aerospace science and technology has been cradle for a number of innovations. It has brought a culture of a number of disciplines working together to achieve state-of-the-art systems. It has connected people from remotest parts of the world," Kalam, regarded as the architect of India's guided missile programmes, said.

However, Kalam also cautioned that the dreams of aerospace research have created a mindset of "competitiveness and possessiveness" that has led to the underutilisation of its potential.

Emphasising on cooperation at the global level, he said that "standing alone has caused certain feelings of insecurity and suspicion".

"The goal should be utilisation of space technology to improve the quality of life. The concept should be space for six billion people. More the stakeholders, the safer the system is," he emphasised.

In order to make space technology a thing for the common good of the mankind, he suggested the creation of a "World Space Council" which could oversee the planning and implementation of exploration, space, security and societal missions.

"Such a unified approach will enable the world to see a quantum jump in the progress in space science and technology for the benefit of all the nations of the world," the former Indian President said.

Kalam stressed that the three major goals of the "World Space Council" should be carrying out large-scale societal missions and low cost access to space, achieving comprehensive space security and space exploration and current application missions.

A spokesman of the organisers of the conference told PTI "Kalam has been invited as the keynote speaker at the conference in view of the reputation he commands in aerospace sciences and for his contribution in strengthening Indo-Israel cooperation".

Kalam also addressed the students and the faculty at Tel Aviv University in a science and technology workshop on "Nation Empowerment and Space".

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Postby Gerard » 02 Mar 2008 06:48


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BrahMos for Israel?

Postby pranab » 13 Mar 2008 09:41

http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Industry/Analysis/2008/03/12/bmd_focus_brahmos_for_israel/5188/

BMD Focus: BrahMos for Israel?



WASHINGTON, March 12 (UPI) -- India's success in co-producing the Mach 2.8 BrahMos supersonic cruise missile with Russia raises the question as to whether New Delhi would be willing or able to sell that technology to Israel -- which urgently needs it.

And it also raises the question of whether Russia would allow India to sell such technology well in advance of current U.S. cruise missile systems to a close U.S. ally.

Israel's strategic deterrent against Iran is its survivable second-strike capability of nuclear-capable U.S.-supplied cruise missiles deployed on its three German-built Dolphin class studies submarines, or U-boats.

But in practice, this Israeli second-strike capability remains highly vulnerable. First, because only one of the three submarines can remain on station at any one time as a second will be either returning to port or coming back to sea and the third will be re-equipping and its crew resting at home at the same time, the deterrent comes down to only a single submarine that may be vulnerable to pre-emptive enemy attack and destruction, rendering its second-strike deterrent useless.

The Israelis realize that, which is why they have wisely ordered two more such submarines from Germany. That should help greatly with the survivability problem.

But the second problem with Israel's nuclear cruise missile deterrent against Iran is far more fundamental.

The cruise missiles that carry the Israeli- submarine-based second-strike deterrent are U.S. Tomahawks, and therefore they are slow -- flying only at 700 miles per hour. The Russians claim that their S-300 and Tor-M1 anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems, which have already been supplied to Iran, have an up to 80 percent success rate at shooting down Tomahawks.

Lockheed Martin, which makes the Tomahawks, disputes this. And it correctly points out that the Tomahawks have a formidable stealth capability. But the fact remains that, given the chance, the Israelis would obviously vastly prefer to have Mach 2.8, 2,000 miles per hour Indian cruise missiles they could fire from their Dolphins rather than 700 miles per hour American ones.

Israeli-Indian relations remain excellent. Indeed, the Indian conception of having cruise missiles armed on their own Scorpion diesel-powered submarines purchased from France as a survivable second strike against Pakistan was deliberately and consciously modeled on the Israeli Dolphin-Tomahawk model.

But, again, would Russia permit India to sell BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles to Israel, when Russia remains the primary arms supplier to Israeli's greatest enemies, Syria and Iran? Also, Israel remains exceptionally close to, supportive of and dependent upon the United States.

If India did sell the BrahMos systems to Israel, the Russians would have to assume that the United States would act immediately to access that cruise missile technology and use it to dramatically upgrade its own.

Again, even if future governments in India were willing to make such a trade, it seems doubtful Russia would let them. And if Israel sought such a deal but found it blocked, would that do permanent damage to the Israeli-Indian strategic relationship?

Yet it might well be in India's interests to sell the BrahMos system to Israel. Over the past 60 years, the tiny Jewish state has often had less than successful experiences in developing ambitious high-tech weapons systems on its own. Its resource base has simply been too small for it realistically to do so.

When these have succeeded, like the excellent Israel Aerospace Industries Arrow anti-ballistic missile interceptor, it is because large defense contractors in other countries with far greater resources -- in the Arrow's case, Boeing in the United States -- have been major participants and partners in the projects.

However, where Israeli high-tech companies, scientists and engineers have excelled has been in incrementally improving and upgrading the weapons systems they bought from other countries. Much of the enormous success and longevity of the French Dassault Mirage fighter-bomber program was owed to the work Israeli experts did in upgrading it and developing its capabilities in the decades prior to the 1967 Six Day War.

For this reason, Indian leaders may in the future be tempted to give Israeli experts access to the BrahMos to help further upgrade it. But even then, it is difficult to see this happening unless the Kremlin approved it.



Nice Article..

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Postby Sanjay M » 13 Mar 2008 10:03

Israelis Sue Govt for Laser Cannons

wow, how much more stereotypical can this get?

"give me 20-yr military superiority lead now! OR I'LL SUE!!"


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