Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 06 Feb 2009 16:39

darshhan wrote:
I can understand, how, in an emotional frenzy (26/11) we might feel that vast amounts of killing are going to solve the problem, but I don't get how sane people, especially those who consider themselves "strategists" could honestly suggest this.

India itself is not wiping out people.

Why would an Indian suggest this is a good solution?


First of all Israel is not wiping out any people.They are just targeting terrorists belonging to Hamas.It is the Hamas which shelters among the innocents thereby increasing the risk to some civilians.In the past couple of years Hamas has launched thousands of qassam rockets leaving israel with no choice but to respond appropriately.

Some will accuse Israel of using disproportionate force.Well it would have been better if Israel would also have launched thousands of rockets into gaza as part of proportionate response.Many more civilians would have been killed.

But Israel did the right thing and this is not tolerable to "leftist/socialist/liberal/jihadist/islamist mindset".

Secondly it is the govt. which goes to war and in my opinion and most of other indians that I have talked to Indian govt. consists of WIMPs and IMPOTENT politicians.It is India's government which consists of cowards.It is not the fault of Israeli govt.Just because terrorists come and spread mayhem in India with impunity, it does not mean that Israelis should suffer same violence.Their govt. has guts and our govt. does not have it.Period.

Also how did you come to the conclusion that I was suffering from emotional frenzy post 26/11.Infact the truth is totally opposite.I am completely objective when I state that the jihadis have to be eliminated to the last man and this has nothing to do with 26/11.I was always aware of the dangers posed by jihadists/Islamists.

The above reasons are why an Indian would give such a suggestion.

P.S. I have taken a solemn oath that I will never submit to Islam and Sharia law.I will never live as a Dhimmi.Never shall I pay jiziya or be relegated to second class citizenship.To maintain my freedom I will die if I have to but more importantly I will also kill if I have to.


darshhan ji,

Nice P.S. :D

Do you know how to drive a truck? :)

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby darshhan » 07 Feb 2009 10:47

darshhan ji,

Nice P.S. :D

Do you know how to drive a truck? :)


Top


Chetak ji thanks.I think if only every non-believer had this attitude then we would have solved the problem of jihadi terror.

I didn't understand your truck question though.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby anjali » 07 Feb 2009 11:33

In perhaps the most bizarre and fantastical scenario yet.....

I have found myself wondering what if an agreement could be arrived upon whereby, the people of Kashmir (Paki occupied and indian territorial Kashmir) were to betransplanted/relocated en mass to...present day Israel, and the Israelis were to be instead moved over into Kashmir?The city of Jerusalem could be assigned to international peacekeeping forces so as to allow access to the three religions that consider it most sacred

Would this fantasyland in Asia
-usher in a new era of peace in West Asia/Middle East ? There would be no ' Israeli occupation' left in the Middle East, Palestinians and Kashmiris would be forced to coexist or co- perish together,
- usher in a new era of peace in South Asia? Sure India would forever forego Kashmir, but in exchange we would get a priceless and strategic ally and neighbor (something we so desperately need) And sure the Israelis would have to give up all the fruits of their labor in their land (infrastructure etc) , and end up in a landlocked but beautiful land, and have to start from start. But would they do that in exchange for peace?

Would this not throw a spanner on the evil designs of the Islamic Caliphate (with Pakistan and KSA) and possibly end their designs to conquer the subcontinent? The dual forces of Israel and India would be indomitable, and the geostrategic dynamics of South Asia would be changed forever.

What was God thinking when he created our planet and its peoples ? :) Or is it just that we have not yet unravelled the secrets of his grand design ?

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 07 Feb 2009 14:27

India and Israel can be friends because we are not neighbors, and that is a good thing.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Keshav » 09 Feb 2009 01:35

RajeshA wrote:India and Israel can be friends because we are not neighbors, and that is a good thing.


Well said.

All this brash support for Israel because of (seemingly) common enemies is disastrous to a pragmatic foreign policy.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Johann » 09 Feb 2009 02:29

Israelis are worried by the combination of growing threats they face, and only a couple of them have been discussed here
- one is the Iranian nuclear threat
- the other is Hezb'allah and Hamas' ability to hit larger and larger swathes of Israeli territory with larger and larger volumes of rocket fire

The Israelis are trying to build a deterrence regime to handle both of those threats; the first threat through a guaranteed Israeli second strike ability from Israel's submarines.

The second through massive, disproportional destruction aimed at any society that does not rein back agressive jihadi groups living amongst them - Gazan Palestinians, Lebanese of all sects, and Lebanese Shia in particular.

While the IDF and the Israeli underperformed in 2006, Hezb'allah has been much quieter since then - they did not for example dare provoke Israel during its gaza operations the way they did back in 2006, which led to the 2nd Lebanon war. Both Khaled Meshaal and Fadlallah have said in public that they would not have provoked Israel if they had known that the response would be so harsh.

However Israel has two other huge worries, which the outside world isnt nearly as aware of becuse they are both internal.

- The first is the slow transformation of Israeli Arab (not Druze!) identity in the last 10-15 years. They have stopped seeing themselves as Arab, but have increasingly come to call themselves Palestinian. Israel also traditionally had an ally in the nomadic and semi-nomadic Bedou who had no nationalist sentiments at all, but as the Jewish population of Israel has expanded, land conflicts have forced the Bedou to settle, and they are being assimilated by the Palestinians. Between these shifting identities and the birthrate, Israel is facing a future where Jews are a minority.

This poses the most stark possible challenge to Israel's survival as a democracy that protects its Jewish population, and it means that a '2-state' solution will not be much of solution at all.

- The second is the booming population of the Haredi (the ultra-orthodox), and the increasing strains of the relationship with secular or moderate Jews, whether Israeli or diaspora. Secular and mainstream Jews accept the ultra-orthodox as Jews, but the reverse is unfortnately not true. I know of ugly incidents where men and women praying together at the wailing wall have been insulted and beaten by Haredi thugs, while the Orthodox unit from the IDF looked on. The ultra-orthodox elsewhere in the diaspora are shrinking, not growing. It is already causing strains between the diaspora and the state of Israel, and if this trend continues to the point that the ultra-orthodox *are* the mainstream of Israeli Judaism, it will hurt one of the central pillars of Israel's birth, survival and security - the wholehearted support of the Jewish diaspora.

These are the threats that the IDF, Mossad, Shin Bet, or Israeli defence industries can not defeat or deter - these are the threats that Israeli civil society has to tackle through intellectual, social and political tools. But first and foremost they have to pull together, because until they do that they cant pull their friends together.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 09 Feb 2009 02:41

Anjaliji,

I have found myself wondering what if an agreement could be arrived upon whereby, the people of Kashmir (Paki occupied and indian territorial Kashmir) were to betransplanted/relocated en mass to...present day Israel, and the Israelis were to be instead moved over into Kashmir?The city of Jerusalem could be assigned to international peacekeeping forces so as to allow access to the three religions that consider it most sacred

Well the Jews in the past could have travelled along the Silk Route to Kashmir and Ladakh (Not going into the "Jesus in Himalayas" thing :D ) and left or carried some genetic traces. But more seriously, the Judaic nations is firmly centred on a "Promised Land" - it has a strong spatial-scared centre component to its nationhood. Unlikely for it to be able to jeopardize that by moving to Kashmir.

Would this not throw a spanner on the evil designs of the Islamic Caliphate (with Pakistan and KSA) and possibly end their designs to conquer the subcontinent? The dual forces of Israel and India would be indomitable, and the geostrategic dynamics of South Asia would be changed forever.


The main reason the Caliphate does not want Israel to stay - is the geo-strategic positionla dvanatge of Israel on the eastern sea-board of the Mediterranean. Israel's beachhead is a crucial sea-access for Israel's backers to reach into the Caliphate heartland. They lost their Crusaders states - and have learnt their lessons well. Neither Israel's supporters nor Israel itself would like to give up this strategic advantage.

Your suggestion of population exchange is a good one - but perhaps have to look for it closer to home. Better still a resettlement among the old. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Hitesh » 09 Feb 2009 03:49

Johann,

Not to mention that the ultra conservative Jews will alienate many supporters in the US who like to think of Israel as a secular and moderate Jewish state. If the vast majority of the Israel supporters see Israel being taken over by ultra conservatives having their way, Israel will lose many pillars of support that they currently rely on.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 09 Feb 2009 23:55

IOL reports:
Israeli failure's during war:
Israel still hasn't located where Shalit is after going into Gaza.
- IDF special forces Couldn't kill and locate the head of the Al Qassam brigades

Unit 8200 Signals division along with Fatah/palestinian spies helped Aman locate 3 mosques where rockets/ammunition were stored.

Possibly lost a lot of assets. Most of the time, pali agents were using mobile phones at sites where israeli's had attacked and Hamas executed them on the spot(My comment: Israeli propaganda was saying that Hamas was using this conflict as a chance to kill Fatah adversaries, now you know why). Joint Shin Bet and military investigation into whether it was done due to hasty, careless or unsafe use of information they had provided.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 10 Feb 2009 00:30

Outgoing Israeli government bargains away military success in Gaza
DEBKAfile Special Analysis

February 8, 2009

All too quickly Israel's three war leaders - prime minister Ehud Olmert, defense minister Ehud Barak and foreign minister Tzipi Livni - forgot the goals they set for the three-week military offensive launched against Hamas on Dec. 27, 2008: That Operation Cast Lead would not halt until security prevailed in southern Israel, that the eight-year Palestinian missile offensive be brought to an end and that Hamas never be allowed to rearm for a fresh assault of terror.

Six weeks later, the Islamists terrorists are reaping the spoils of a war they lost.

Jerusalem is feeding Egyptian mediators with concession after concession to keep Hamas at the negotiating table in Cairo and talking about a long-term truce. Frustrated Israeli commanders warn their victory is being traded to buy undreamed-of gains for Hamas, such as the creeping recognition of the Palestinian Islamist group as the Gaza Strip's legitimate ruling power and acceptance of the enclave's status as a forward Iranian base on Israel's southern border. The deal on the table in Cairo would moreover lead to perpetuating the separation between the pro-Western West Bank and the pro-Iranian Gaza Strip, generating a fixed impediment to any discussion of a potential Palestinian state.

Saturday, Feb. 7, defense minister Barak Hamas granted safe passage to Hamas leader Mahmoud A-Zahar to come out of hiding in Gaza for the first time since the hostilities began. He flew to Cairo and on to Damascus to deal with the release of the Israeli soldier Gilead Shalit, held since he was kidnapped in 2006. By this concession, Barak gave Tehran, from which Hamas-Damascus takes direct orders, the last word on all these transactions.

Barak is believed to have promised Egypt that other Hamas leaders may also safely emerge from their bunkers as long as the Cairo negotiations continue, even though Hamas has made no commitments of any kind and continues to shoot missiles into Israel as well as smuggling arms.

As Israel's general election looms Tuesday, Feb. 10, Barak, who leads the Labor party, and his colleagues are disseminating pink clouds of optimism while pursuing steps that reverse the goals of Operation Cast Lead: They are solidifying Hamas' strength and its grip on the Gaza Strip for years to come.

DEBKAfile's military sources count eight areas in which the outgoing government is relinquishing assets to Hamas:

1. Military attacks on Palestinian military targets have been suspended in the Gaza Strip. Hamas has offered nothing in return except for an oral undertaking to Egypt to try and keep the level of missile fire down. The Israeli air force responds to each salvo by bombing empty Palestinian buildings and sand dunes.

2. Israel has suspended targeted strikes against Hamas leaders and commanders according to an understanding with Cairo.

3. According to another understanding, Israel will allow an increasing number of supply trucks and types of freights to enter the Gaza crossings daily.

This is a virtual surrender to Hamas' demands for fully opened crossings (translation: end of Israel's embargo of the Gaza Strip). Hamas has not been held to any guarantee for ending its smuggling of arms - or any other quid pro quo.

4. Israel has also promised Egypt to gradually lift its naval blockade of Gaza.

5. Jerusalem has given ground on its initial demand to remove Hamas from the crossings and pass them to Palestinian Authority control. The deal emerging is for foreign monitors to be posted on those crossings and report to Hamas. This is another form of Israeli recognition of the Palestinian extremists' rule of the Gaza Strip and its control of Israel's southwestern frontier.

If approved, it would also perpetuate the divide between the pro-Iranian entity in the Gaza Strip ruled by Hamas and the pro-Western territory of the West Bank under the control of its rival, Mahmoud Abbas' Palestinian Authority, which Hamas kicked out of the Gaza Strip in 2007

Israeli military sources warn that the eventual upshot of these Israeli concessions will be the collapse of Abbas' rule. Hamas will be able to use the Gaza Strip as a jumping-off base for taking over the West Bank as well.

It is a matter Israeli national policy to withhold recognition from the Palestinian Hamas – which the US and European Union also list as a terrorist organization for its commitment to violence and Israel's destruction. Yet, by knuckling under on this point, Israeli authorities will find themselves engaging Hamas officials willy-nilly in the day-to-day management of the shared border crossings.

6. Many of the soldiers who took part in the Gaza offensive declared that their mission was unfinished because Gilead Shalit remained in captivity. Instead of using its military feat to improve the chances for his release, Israel has allowed itself to be cornered here too. Hamas has upped its demand for the release of 1,000 jailed Palestinian terrorists including convicted multiple murderers of the Fatah, Tanzim, Popular Front and Hamas, which Israel was inclined to accept. Now the price has gone up to 1,250 inmates, all of whom are to be released at the Gaza crossings. The West Bank residents will be sent home later.

7. Israel has agreed to leave the monitoring of Hamas' arms smuggling in Egypt's hands, although Cairo's past record is notoriously wanting. For years, Egyptian police looked the other way as Hamas imported massive quantities of weapons through Sinai.

8. Not by a single word is Hamas required to dismantle its armed strength. Israel is therefore seen to be accepting the presence of an armed terrorist force on its border.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Manny » 10 Feb 2009 02:15

Netanyahu Warns Obama on Talks as He Challenges Livni (Update2)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... KTFmR61kD0

Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Even before Benjamin Netanyahu finds out whether he will be Israel’s next prime minister, he is sending a message to President Barack Obama that he won’t be pushed around.

Netanyahu, the Likud party candidate who narrowly leads Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni ahead of elections tomorrow, last week took reporters to Arab parts of Jerusalem, where he helped establish Jewish footholds when he was previously prime minister. No pressure, he said, would make him cede those neighborhoods “to our enemies.”

Just as he confounded former President Bill Clinton in the 1990s, Netanyahu probably will resist if Obama pushes too hard to extract Israeli concessions for peace in the Middle East.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 11 Feb 2009 18:54

Image

From:
Jerusalem Post


Avigdor Lieberman (Yisrael Beitenu) holds the key to the next Government. The question is would the rightist party go with the Likud or with Kadima.

Whichever way it goes, Avigdor has promised to crush Hamas and take care of Iran. This is going to spoil Obama's script for Afghanistan big time, as it would make it difficult to have a proper rapprochement with Iran. Also Iranian elections will also play a part in a new entente. If Khatami wins, he could give Obama some concessions for a new opening. But with the rightist shift in Israel, it could also encourage the Iranians to stay rightist.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 18 Feb 2009 17:24

New tennis ball-sized camera with 360-degrees range for Israeli infantry

February 18, 2009, 12:37 PM (GMT+02:00)

One of the hi-tech gadgets the Israeli Defense Forces exhibited at its Southern Command headquarters Tuesday, Feb. 17, was EyeBall, the size of a tennis ball. Tossed into a closed area it relays a 360-degree picture of its interior in 15 seconds. Made by ODF Optronics, Tel Aviv, this was one of the gadgets Israeli troops used in last month's Gaza operation to detect the booby traps with which Hamas wired homes, schools and bunkers.

Also used was an array of robots armed with cameras. One of these indestructible spies is the tiny EyeDrive, a four-wheel, remote-controlled robot which can go up and down stairs emitting a continuous stream of audio and video surveillance.

Tested for the first time in Gaza was the Matador, a shoulder-launched high-penetration missile. It was developed by Rafael after Israeli infantry in the 2006 Lebanon War were unable to hit Hizballah positions inside buildings and bunkers without tanks or helicopters. A single soldier using a Matador missile can bring down a fortified building without bulldozers or tanks. It is precise enough to drive a hole in a wall without destroying the interior of a building.

The Sky Rider miniature drone, which can be launched by three soldiers, relays images blocked by buildings to a commander's wrist-watch screen.

As for heavy hardware, the IDF launched a new armored personnel carrier, Tiger (Namer) which provides its crew with high steel protection, behind which they can use its hi-tech weaponry and electronics without exposing themselves to attack.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Keshav » 18 Feb 2009 20:40

What is the status of the Gaza offensive now?

What is the current mood in Israel?

Any Israelis available for comment?

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 19 Feb 2009 05:20

Our Israeli Birathars have been trading intelligence notes with ISI for a year now. Zardari even met with Israeli Foreign ministry officials in Europe and other places "to ascertain the nationalities of the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks". More later.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 19 Feb 2009 05:38

shyamd - source ??

shyamd
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 19 Feb 2009 05:57

IOL: intelligenceonline

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby sum » 19 Feb 2009 14:58

shyamd wrote:Our Israeli Birathars have been trading intelligence notes with ISI for a year now. Zardari even met with Israeli Foreign ministry officials in Europe and other places "to ascertain the nationalities of the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks". More later.

What have they been trading notes on for a year?

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby sunnyP » 21 Feb 2009 00:30

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7901486.stm

Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of the right-of-centre Likud party, has been asked to form Israel's next government.

Mr Netanyahu said Israel faced "great challenges" including the global economic crisis and what he said was Iran's wish to obtain nuclear weapons.

He said he would try to form a unity government with his political rivals.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 21 Feb 2009 17:30

Sumji will let you know when I find out.

_______
Went to a talk by Sari Nusseibeh. He is a former negotiator between Israel and PA. Former Member of PA and the current President of the Al Quds University in Jerusalem.

He was extremely open and frank about it, which was good.

Last year he met Tony Blair at the British Consulate in Jerusalem. He came out depressed because Tony didn't seem to have a clue at all about the situation in the middle east or its history.

Similar to what my hamas gaza source tells me, He mentioned that in Gaza, the reason why Hamas was sending rockets is because even after the pull out in Gaza, the Israeli's were controlling all the borders and signed agreements with the EU and Egypt not to allow import and export. This was against the agreement and the understanding after the pull out. So, the world basically blockaded Hamas, and it is a little unfair to them, because they were never given a chance to show what the Islamic side had to offer (My comment: Some of you are probably thinking, well Hamas is the one who are sending in suicide bombers etc so what could they have to offer? Well, the Palestinian Authority's Al Aqsa Martyrs brigades are just as bad. Both have been involved in killing of Israeli's, so whats the harm in trying Hamas out.). He also mentioned that Hamas or the PA are not negotiating because there is nothing serious on the table. He said if there was something serious on the table coming from the international powers and israel, we could take hamas to task and convince them.

My comment: Hamas basically says that of course there would be peace if Israel opened up the borders to trade, at least with Egypt, like they were supposed to after the pull out.

He agreed that the current PA government acted despicably in not helping Hamas or the civilians in Gaza and they were party with Israel in the killing of civilians. He said this act could be the downfall of the PA, and the actions of ME govt's in support of Israel may be the start of the downfalls in the authoritarian regime's of the ME.

In the past, people saw themselves as "Palestinians", today they are "muslims".

In the end, he said you should tell your government not to give money to us(PA), and instead give money for health and education. "PLEASE STOP GIVING MONEY TO US!" is what he said. And perhaps israel as well, he joked. Focus more on health and education in Palestine.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 27 Feb 2009 00:59

shyamd wrote:Our Israeli Birathars have been trading intelligence notes with ISI for a year now. Zardari even met with Israeli Foreign ministry officials in Europe and other places "to ascertain the nationalities of the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks". More later.

Correction Zardari's advisors met in europe with israeeli foreign ministry and not zardari himself.
Diyaar Birather's. More details as promised, courtesy IOL:

CIA/MI6 and yindu's believed that terrorists were of paki origin. But Zardari wanted 2nd opinion and asked their brothers in Israa eel.

Initiative from Turkiye, Puki & Israa eeli Foreign ministers, meet up in Istanbul, Turkiye. Kasuri and Shalom on september 1st 2005.

It appears our israeeli birathers are in regular contact with their counterparts in Pukistan (Relationship re-started in 2007). Mossad is maintaining this relationship. This relationship started when BB advisors contacted Israaeeli's for procurement of important eqpt for her personal security. The main contact between the 2 in 2007 was the current interior minister Malik. Now Zardari is in contact with Israeeli's as well. The recent secret stuff is facilitated by a european business man who has good ties with both sides.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 27 Feb 2009 01:18

Let our Israeli birathers do what they have to. We will also do what we have to.

Given how things are shaping up in Afghanistan, a very critical theatre of influence that impinges directly on our security... we will have at least as much need of good relations with Iran as with Israel, if not more so.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 28 Feb 2009 18:37


Gerard
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 02 Mar 2009 06:45


Yogi_G
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 02 Mar 2009 08:15



From this article....

Toronto, ON, Canada, — India’s main supplier of advanced military hardware is Israel. In the 1990s India took a major decision to procure arms from Israel after its much-touted Defense Research and Development Organization failed to develop any high-end weapons systems.


Sigh, this is worse than DDM :x

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby sum » 02 Mar 2009 09:46

Its from a BRFite!!!!

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby gandharva » 11 Mar 2009 02:11

India, Israel defence trade crosses $10b with Phalcon deal

Rahul Datta | New Delhi

As the first Israeli made Phalcon AWAC(airborne early warning system) lands in India next month, the race between Israel and Russia will hot up for the biggest defence partner of India. This deal for the

IAF is for three Phalcons worth over $ 1.1 billion and Israel has already crossed the $10 billion mark in defence trade with India and the ties continue to grow stronger and robust.

By the time other two state-of-the-art Phalcons join the IAF by the end of this year, the overall trade figures between India and Israel will tell a different story. The main reason for the fast-growing ties between the two countries is Israel's willingness to part with the latest technology and knowhow to India without any strings attached.

In fact, Israel has, time and again, defied the US also in these matters and the Phalcon deal is one such example when the US had serious reservations about Israel supplying latest technology to India, sources said here on Tuesday.

The other crucial factor in strengthening of defence relations between the two countries is Israel and India joining hands in several key research and development projects. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is playing a major role in this field and nearly 30 of its projects, which were stalled due to denial of cutting edge technology, are now on track courtesy agreements with their Israeli counterparts, they said.

Israel is acknowledged as the world leader in research and development and manufacturing hi-tech equipment for all kinds of weapons used by the three services, avionics, electronic warfare systems, upgradation of tanks, guns, ships and aircraft.

They are also world leaders in manufacturing systems for fighting terrorism and checking infiltration and our 750-km long anti-infiltration along the Line of Control (LOC) in Jammu and Kashmir has deployed several Israeli made thermal imagers and detection systems.

The Israeli industry and the DRDO are now heavily engaged in projects like upgradation of crucial systems like missiles, radars and Israel has already supplied the technology of its best known Greenpine radar to India, sources said adding this technology has hugely helped the DRDO and other agencies in developing missiles.

Similarly, the air defence system, which is comparatively weak at the moment, will see greater Israeli presence in the next few months. The Israeli industry is keenly eyeing the upgradation contract for the radars to detect low-flying aircraft and is already engaged in a joint development project with the DRDO on radars, sources said.

One more important area of involvement is the Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) and the two countries have already inked deals for buying off the shelf UAV and collaboration in development of UAVs with the DRDO.

Having supplied Barak anti-ship cruise to the Indian Navy, Israel and India are now jointly working on the development of the second and third generation of Barak missiles as this system has proved to be very effective.

Given this intense defence relationship between the two countries, which started only after the two countries established diplomatic relations in 1990, Israel, however, will take some more years to upstage Russia as the number one partner of India, they said.

Citing plausible reasons, they said Israel lacks the industrial infrastructure to manufacture really big-ticket items like warships, fighter aircraft and tanks to name a few. Russia beats Israel in this field and continues to be a steadfast partner of India for the last 40 years.

At present, India uses more than 70 per cent inventory including weapons and systems of erstwhile Soviet Union and Russia and India continues to rely heavily on Russia. To give an example, we have just bought more than 300 T-90 main battle tanks from Russia, inked an agreement for joint development of a fifth generation fighter aircraft and multi-role transport aircraft.

The Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier deal, which is witnessing some controversies with Russia jacking up the price over the agreed contract price, is another big-ticket item.

However, the relationshp with Israel is growing at great speed despite the Left raising objections and the UPA Government ignoring even when the Left was supporting the Congress-led alliance.

Moreover, the defence bonds have expanded rather quietly over the years and Israel has always maintained low profile while talking about ties with India in this sphere. The trade volume, however, gives away the secret and Israel is slowly closing the gap even as Russia continues to notch up trade worth over $ 1.5 billion with India every year.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/161908/Indi ... -deal.html

rajsunder
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby rajsunder » 12 Mar 2009 03:10

A funny promotional video(esp for INDIA) by one of the Israeli arms manufacturer




:mrgreen: ? :evil: ?

Gerard
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 12 Mar 2009 04:21


Amber G.
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 12 Mar 2009 05:20

Also:
Doesn't sound like it has any of the ingredients for one of those classically romantic Indian films does it? Trust me. You truly have no idea how bad, or hilarious, this could be until you see it.

The first thing watchers will notice is that the "archetypal Indian" dancers may have olive-coloured skin, but they are not in the slightest bit Indian. In fact, they're quite obviously Middle Eastern in appearance - probably Sephardic, or oriental, Israelis - and the male lead is even more blatantly Israeli-looking than his colleagues.

And then, the song. Not only does listening to the music itself feel like enduring a series of sharp stomach cramps, but the lyrics hardly conform to the type of lustful, emotional lines we're used to in Bollywood.

....Either the firm's Indian hosts will (like us in The Times newsroom) have found the video so funny that they fell off their chairs laughing and awarded the contract to Rafael out of sympathy - or, one imagines, the firm will only have succeeded in offending those that they meant to impress.


link

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby tejas » 12 Mar 2009 08:09

Why call the communists the "Left" rather than what they are -- communists? The commie opposition to Israeli defense assistance/exports to India shows the true colors of these traitors. Is it not enough to sabotage India's economic growth, do they have to try to leave us defenseless too?

In any other country in the world people like this would be shot for treason. Only in India can they remain part of the political mainstream :evil:

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby joshvajohn » 14 Mar 2009 05:33

India needs to strenghthen the relationship with Israel, particularly in providing intelligence information. At this point India is the only country that can mediate between the moderate Palestinian Muslims and the Israelis in a genuine way. The long term solution for Palestinians in achieving their own independence on the one hand and protection and wellbeings of Israelis on the other hand can beachieved only when the Palestinian moderate Muslims take over the power and make sure the Jihadis of Saudis and AFgans are not controlled by outsiders and do not posses heavy arms against Isarelis. It needs a long term negotiation but is possible. Palestinian Hamas and other anti Israelis cannot be contained by Israelis themselves rather by the Palestinian themselves through moderate and reasonble Arfat groups only.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Mar 2009 07:36

joshvajohn wrote:India needs to strenghthen the relationship with Israel, particularly in providing intelligence information.

What sort of intelligence do you mean? Israeli's tell us that our weekly briefings are nothing new to them and sourced from open source. Over the last year or so prior to 26/11, India and Israel's security/intel relationship was downgraded(they were our number 1, then have fallen down the list, probably to number 2). But would have probably picked up after 26/11.

At this point India is the only country that can mediate between the moderate Palestinian Muslims and the Israelis in a genuine way.

Not really. They can mediate between themselves if they want to. Egypt/US/West has been doing it for a while. India shouldn't get involved (waste of time imo). They have a useless guy called Tony Blair who is the Mid East envoy. As I have said in the ME thread, a person who met him to discuss the subject came out depressed because he hasn't got a clue about the history and the people etc.

The long term solution for Palestinians in achieving their own independence on the one hand and protection and wellbeings of Israelis on the other hand can beachieved only when the Palestinian moderate Muslims take over the power and make sure the Jihadis of Saudis and AFgans are not controlled by outsiders and do not posses heavy arms against Isarelis.

The so called "moderates" were in power for how long, what did they achieve? Why can't Palestinians have weapons, afterall they should be trusted with it if they are going to be independent. The west didn't even give Hamas a chance to see what Hamas had to offer to the peace process.

The jihadi's in palestine are mainly of Palestinian origin, they say they are fighting for their villages of which they were kicked out of. But Israeli's (correct me if I am wrong) say we won the war that we(Israeli's) didn't want to fight, and we have the right to keep the land that we won.

It needs a long term negotiation but is possible. Palestinian Hamas and other anti Israelis cannot be contained by Israelis themselves rather by the Palestinian themselves through moderate and reasonble Arfat groups only.

Why? The palestinians have tried Arafat groups, didn't achieve much. So did they give Hamas a try? Victor Ostrovsky claims that the Israeli's knew that the brotherhood would occur.

Just trying to get more answers to your comments.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby sum » 15 Mar 2009 18:35

The Israeli industry is keenly eyeing the upgradation contract for the radars to detect low-flying aircraft and is already engaged in a joint development project with the DRDO on radars,

Which radar are they talking about?


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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby darshhan » 29 Mar 2009 02:15

India needs to strenghthen the relationship with Israel, particularly in providing intelligence information. At this point India is the only country that can mediate between the moderate Palestinian Muslims and the Israelis in a genuine way. The long term solution for Palestinians in achieving their own independence on the one hand and protection and wellbeings of Israelis on the other hand can beachieved only when the Palestinian moderate Muslims take over the power and make sure the Jihadis of Saudis and AFgans are not controlled by outsiders and do not posses heavy arms against Isarelis. It needs a long term negotiation but is possible. Palestinian Hamas and other anti Israelis cannot be contained by Israelis themselves rather by the Palestinian themselves through moderate and reasonble Arfat groups only.



What do you mean by moderate muslims?Both Fatah and Hamas envisage the destruction of israel.Hamas does it openly while fatah is little bit more disreet.Also by the way there is hardly any saudi or afghan participation in palestinian terror groups.

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Keshav » 29 Mar 2009 04:21

darshhan wrote:What do you mean by moderate muslims?Both Fatah and Hamas envisage the destruction of israel.Hamas does it openly while fatah is little bit more disreet.Also by the way there is hardly any saudi or afghan participation in palestinian terror groups.


Isn't Fatah's official stance that it does recognize the state of Israel?

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Mar 2009 04:56

No arab nation recognizes israel, so I presume the same for Hamas and Fatah. But they are willing to recognise it if, Israel returns to the 1967 borders I think

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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 29 Mar 2009 06:00

Fatah will if go back to pre 67 borders and right of return (which is precisely there to break any deal)

Hamas will not (at least till now)

Gerard
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Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Gerard » 29 Mar 2009 07:42

shyamd wrote:No arab nation recognizes israel, so I presume the same for Hamas and Fatah. But they are willing to recognise it if, Israel returns to the 1967 borders I think


Been reading too much Debka? Careful.. you may start believing their disinformation :)

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace+Process ... +betwe.htm

LETTER FROM YASSER ARAFAT TO PRIME MINISTER RABIN:

September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiation

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

Sincerely,

Yasser Arafat
Chairman
The Palestine Liberation Organization


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace+Process ... Treaty.htm

TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
October 26, 1994

ARTICLE 2

GENERAL PRINCIPLES

The Parties will apply between them the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace. In particular:

1. They recognise and will respect each other's sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence;

2. They recognise and will respect each other's right to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries;


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Proce ... e%20Treaty

PEACE TREATY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT
March 26, 1979
Article III

1. The Parties will apply between them the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace. In particular:

1. They recognize and will respect each other's sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence;
2. They recognize and will respect each other's right to live in peace within their secure and recognized boundaries;


Mauritania broke off diplomatic relations with Israel this month

Remarks at Ceremony on Signing of Diplomatic Relations between Israel and Mauritania
Washington, D.C., October 28, 1999
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Sp ... ic%20Relat
After consultations between the governments of the two countries, with the help of the government of the United States, it has been decided that the diplomatic representation between the Islamic Republic of Mauritania and Israel to be updated to the level of embassy. On this occasion I would like to express my deep thanks to Mrs. Albright for the great efforts made in this regard in order to come to this conclusion.


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