Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 24 Mar 2015 22:54

No,this has nothing to do with good relationships with Israel.India should cultivate the best possible relationship with Israel,as has been the case for last 25 years.Just felt like responding about the differences in Indo-Israel worldview .My original post was prompted by A_Guptajis remark on founding of Israel.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Mar 2015 03:19

Paul wrote:Israel is vijayanagara Kingdom of middle east. Very powerful garrison state but destined to be overcome by its neighbours.

Sire, it is not. Vijayanagara at the zenith started relaxing reading/writing great poetry - Amukta mAlyada by sree krishna dEva rAya, and his patronage to fine arts including sculpture and such. Israel is a hard state and ready to use to protect their territory at the cost of their enemies and enemies' friends.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Mar 2015 04:05

I think Paul means, Israel like Vijayanagara cannot accept even one defeat.
Its surrounded by ill meaning states.

We can discuss causes of Vijayanagara decline in the proper thread.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Mar 2015 04:07

http://sarabe3.tripod.com/israeliteimages.html

About Hebrew folk's folk jokes. .

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Mar 2015 06:10

errmmm..."The Shiite resistance to Sunni fundamentalism is something which we welcome whether in Afghanisthan or elsewhere.The Shiites break the exaggerated monolithic(the ridiculous simplistic monotheistic) claims of Islam"....

do we really welcome "shiite resistance to sunni fundamentalism" as claimed by you? what is this "shiite resistance"?
and how exactly are the shiites breaking anything when they keep talking of the glory of islam themselves?

sorry, but iran is a problem by itself. we have to be very careful how we deal with it.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 25 Mar 2015 06:41

The hallucination of "shia resistance" to "Islamic claims" is a result of potent drugs....

Remember what the Deccani Shias did after collapse of Vijayanagara....not just the pillaging and rapine loot of the city, but the repetitive Jihads launched in the later 16th century.

From a purely Geo-political standpoint, a West Asian power which has no historic social or cultural claims on NW-India is something that Bharat could greatly benefit from. A post-Islamic Iran will have its own delusions of Sassanid/Parthian power. They will want to expand in some form or shape into Afg. We cannot allow this. Having a foresight of a few generations is what is needed. Israel has no historic political claims on Indian periphery. Their ideology is not openly hostile to our civilization. No, any comparison to Christos and Islamics will simply not hold any substance for the simple reason that Israel will have to morph itself into a completely different type of State if they want to follow that path. and if a time ever comes where they're headed that way, we'll have ample warning and overt signs.

Moving this discussion forward, we can meet half-way.

1. Agree that some form of alliance is useful in the present scenario with Islam marauding globally. further this could be useful as a balance on future Iranian ambitions on Indian periphery.

2. Israel is the Abrahamic "mother". so their ideology is as exclusive as Christos and Islamics, but without the fundamental drive to conquer that is a result of insecurity (among the Christo-Islamics).

I think agreeing to the above 2 points is a good mid-way point between the two camps in this debate on Indian Interests.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 25 Mar 2015 07:20

All this feelings of pappi-jhappi towards Shia are misplaced feeling because , Shias are persecuted by baaki biraathers..also fascination with I-ran is because Indics still associate it with the ancient Persian culture , which there is no hope that they ll ever return too...also because they give shivers to house of Saud and umbrica ...if I-ran was a neutral democracy this question would have never arisen...

One of my colleagues is an Iranian... he says that a chunk of society may be liberal , but overall it is an islamist hell hole possibly beyond redemption ...

even if liberals emerge within the Islamist society , they have a tendency revert back to there momeen caveman days...Turkey had Ataturk who do a lot of good for em... but eventually it had to have an Erdogan who would reverse everything... else it would not have been Islamiyat ..

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Mar 2015 20:52

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/ ... -countries
Israelis advised to avoid travelling to 40 countries

Mentioning it here because an earlier version of this article, since removed from the web-site, included J&K in the list.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Mar 2015 03:03

Given this happened in J&K

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/28/world ... flict.html
And this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Omar_Saeed_Sheikh originally tried to target Israelis, there is probably a good reason (read Mossad intercepts) of why J&K is a high alert area for Israelis to travel.

The marking of J&K as a separate country however is clearly unacceptable - if that occurred.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Mar 2015 03:10

devesh is right.
Collapse of Crusader states enabled the Turkish drive towards India.

Arabs were already defeated by then.

Hence having a friendly power in West Asia will keep them inwardly focused. Other than Israel rest are doubtful.

gkakkad is also right about Iran. Its as fundoo as they come.
Their use now is the opposition to Sunni power in West Asia.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Mar 2015 07:12

ramana wrote:gkakkad is also right about Iran. Its as fundoo as they come.
Their use now is the opposition to Sunni power in West Asia.

Persian Shias have a 1000 year history of assassination of key leaders of their opposition. In fact, the word 'assassin' was derived from their liberal use of Hashish and drug-induced killings. The Assassin caste among Shias morphed into the Ismaili sect now led by the Aga Khan.

But, having the split in Islam (Shia/Sunni) is just as important as maintaining the ingress at the other end with Israel. So- I would say the Shias need to be supported against the Sunnis, while simultaneously supporting Israel and its right to exist.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 26 Mar 2015 09:28

It’s Official: The Pentagon Finally Admitted That Israel Has Nuclear Weapons, Too

After five decades of pretending otherwise, the Pentagon has reluctantly confirmed that Israel does indeed possess nuclear bombs, as well as awesome weapons technology similar to America’s.

Early last month the Department of Defense released a secret report done in 1987 by the Pentagon-funded Institute for Defense Analysis that essentially confirms the existence of Israel’s nukes. DOD was responding to a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by Grant Smith, an investigative reporter and author who heads the Institute for Research: Middle East Policy. Smith said he thinks this is the first time the US government has ever provided official recognition of the long-standing reality.

It’s not exactly news. Policy elites and every president from LBJ to Obama have known that Israel has the bomb. But American authorities have cooperated in the secrecy and prohibited federal employees from sharing the truth with the people. When the White House reporter Helen Thomas asked the question of Barack Obama back in 2009, the president ducked. “With respect to nuclear weapons, you know, I don’t want to speculate,” Obama said. That was an awkward fib. Obama certainly knows better, and so do nearly two-thirds of the American people, according to opinion polls.

Yet the confirmation of this poorly kept secret opens a troublesome can of worms for both the US government and our closest ally in the Middle East. Official acknowledgement poses questions and contradictions that cry out for closer inspection. For many years, the United States collaborated with Israel’s development of critical technology needed for advanced armaments. Yet Washington pushed other nations to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which requires international inspections to discourage the spread of nuclear arms. Israel has never signed the NPT and therefore does not have to submit to inspections.

Washington knew all along what the inspectors would find in Israel. Furthermore, as far back as the 1960s, the US Foreign Assistance Act was amended by concerned senators to prohibit any foreign aid for countries developing their own nukes. Smith asserts that the exception made for Israel was a violation of the US law but it was shrouded by the official secrecy. Since Israel is a major recipient of US aid, American presidents had good reason not to reveal the truth.

The report does not include a single declarative sentence that directly states the taboo—Israel has nukes—but the meaning is obvious. For many years, scholars and other experts have estimated that Israel has at least 100 to 200 bombs, possibly more.

Some of the IDA’s observations seem to hint at a copy-cat process in which the US government either actively helped or at least looked the other way while Israel borrowed or purloined technologies to establish a parallel nuclear system that looks a lot like America’s. The IDA document does not say anything, one way or the other, on t...

The Institute for Research: Middle East Policy, Smith said, is pushing another FOIA request aimed at the CIA, hoping to pry open long-secret intelligence investigations about how Israel managed to get the bomb in the first place. The institute is seeking disclosure of a CIA study that supposedly investigated how quantities of uranium were leaked or allegedly smuggled by Israeli agents from a Pennsylvania defense plant to provide seed corn for the Israel bomb.

Smith and others suspect that elements of the US government knew what happened back then or may even have assisted the stealthy transfer. That particular mystery was a hot issue back in the 1970s. It seems likely to get renewed interest now that the pretense of official ignorance has been demolished by release of the 1987 report.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 26 Mar 2015 09:36

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/israel-i-relations-with-iran

Israel and Iran have had a jumpy ride for six decades and more,not to speak of Biblical tales of Persians(Cyrus the "Great") rescuing Jews in Babylon etc.

In the Pehlavi era,both Iran and Israel were united by their common fear of Arab nationalism and Soviet influence.
Also,Iran has legitimate concerns about Shiites in Lebanon and Syria.

MA Djinnah was a shia.So were many tyrants who ruled Indian kingdoms.

Israel has co-operated with Iran in the past.India and Israeli worldviews are not same.Israel will always have to chose one devil over another while being in permanent embrace with the Great ....

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 26 Mar 2015 09:55

svenkat wrote:....not to speak of Biblical tales of Persians(Cyrus the "Great") rescuing Jews in Babylon etc.

That should read Parsis rescuing Jews....No credit to the folks masquerading as Persians today.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 26 Mar 2015 22:15

WOW! Hinjew conspiracy against the poor Golaiths of the world Christianity and Islam!

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8492.htm

An article titled "Modi in the Footprints of Yehudi [Jew]" in the mainstream Pakistani Urdu-language daily Roznama Pakistan argued that a Zionist-Hindu alliance is threatening Muslims, and therefore a Muslim-Christian understanding is currently needed.

The article was written by Dr. Zahoor Ahmad Azhar, who argued that the Zionists and Hindus will prove to be more racist in coming years. He went on to praise Pope Francis for his visit to Turkey to promote world peace.

The following are excerpts:

"At present, the Islamic East, rather the whole of Asia, is at the target of two racist groups. Not only is there complete harmony and cooperation between the two, but military pacts between them also exist. One of these is the Zionist state of Israel and the other is idol-worshiping Hindu India. Interestingly, by tongue both claim to follow secularism and democracy but from inside they are - not only extremely, but obnoxiously - religious fanatics and prejudiced to a dangerous level.

"Presently, only Muslims appear to be in the line of their target, but in the future both of these cow-worshipers are going to be proven to be more dangerously racist than Hitler; and for this it is enough evidence that for the past quarter of a century the Muslim minority [in India], along with the Christian minority and the Sikhs, have been at the receiving end of wrathful Hindus.

We are screwed. Christians and the Muslism are going to join together as prophesied earlier here

RELIGIOUS MERGER CREATES 900 MILLION HINJEWS
http://www.satirewire.com/news/may02/hinjews.shtml

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Mar 2015 03:52

An American view (Prof Alon Ben-Meir of NY University) of the Likud win:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... efeat.html

Israel, which has been led astray by Netanyahu for so long, is fast approaching a new precipice unlike any other it has faced in years past.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 27 Mar 2015 06:40

Once again, I attempted to find a middle ground in the post above, but once again the broader Indian Interests seemingly have no place in this debate. posters are busy collecting every criticism of Israel to further undermine the very existence of that State, while neither showing any interest nor understanding the consequences for India if that State were to cease to exist.

do A_Gupta or svenkat care to comment on my point about keeping a check on Iranian ambitions on NW-India???

Let us not forget that the "victim"-Iran is very new. until as recently as the 18th century, those f****** were busy invading India at every opportunity. And of course, we don't see any discussion of that by A_Gupta or by svenkat. In fact, svenkat is busy hallucinating about "Iranian resistance" to "Islamic claims"...whatever the f*** that means.

As usual, the above posters will continue to ignore ACTUAL history of Iranian transgressions and crimes against India, but somehow are obsessed with undermining a State that has no historic political/military/socio-cultural baggage against India.....this really boggles my mind.

Once you let Jihadis consolidate in their homelands, they always expand and fall on the non-muslims. This is exactly what happened to Spain, Eastern Europe, Egypt...list keeps going. This is also what happened to India. until the Jihadis showed up on our doorstep, we neither bothered to nor cared about paying attention to the periphery.

Iranian ambitions on Afg, Punjab, Sindh, extending all the way to Delhi are a matter of historic record. These incursions only halted when Russia expanded all the way and showed up on Iranian doorstep. After that, Iran now had the swinging sword of the Great Bear hanging on its neck. That's when they stopped looking East for loot and rape.

Israel, being both non-muslim and having no political or military claims on Indian periphery, is a natural counter balance to any future Iranian imperial-redux.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 27 Mar 2015 06:56

further, regarding Iran's future trajectory:

At some point, they will negotiate some form of truce with the Sunnis (Turkey and Gulf). They cannot keep the current juggernaut going forever. All evidence points to the fact that even Turkey is now openly letting the ISIS and other Sunni Jihadis regroup and restock supplies. There have been lots of open source inputs on twitter and other unconventional social media that Turkey is simply standing watching on the Turko-Syrian border even while ISIS operates well within range of Turkish artillery and other assets. Literally within eye-sight's range.

IMVHO, there will not be a massive prolonged Sunni-Shia confrontation. They will make a truce within the next couple of years and turn towards what they consider softer targets. Turkey will again turn to East Europe. and Iran, being blocked on the North by the Bear, on the West by both Gulf Alliance and Turkey, will turn East.

Now, Pakis will not be a deterrent to Iranian ambitions. regardless of Sunni-Shia split: the greatest factor in Paki calculus is that Pakis consider Iranians to be "superior" in their worldview. superior in "race" and "skin". This Paki worldview, colored with intense racism, will find no problem in licking the "master race's" boots, b/c they are TFTA, and Iran, in their mind, is super-TFTA.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 27 Mar 2015 08:21

devesh,
I am an armchair 'hysterian'.Please educate me on Iranian invasions of India.I have heard of Darius sometime in 6th century BC and Nadir Shah in 18th century.The Iranian influence was more cultural on the muslim rulers.Some of the mughals,deccani sultanates were shia.I read that Lucknow nawabs were shia.

Its Sunnis who provide the numbers and shiites the 'brains' and 'ideology'.No one has any illusions about shiites.In the context of Afghanistan,Iranians and Indians have collobarated in building chabahar ports and roads.

Israel is constrained by its location surrounded by muslim states.At best,we can get those arms which are not vetoed by US.To that extent,we all support Indo-Israel co-operation.Beyond that,it is an appendage of US as far as any long term strategic policy goes.I dont understand why you cant see this.They are next to useless in our confrontation with US backed pakistan.Israel can never oppose pakistan for it just does not have the freedom to do so.Israel was created by the same forces that created pakistan and it is sustained by the same forces that support pakistan.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 27 Mar 2015 08:24

Theres no way on earth Iran can roll over pakhanasthan.TSP is too radicalised for that to happen.

Our interests are in West Punjab.Jerusalem is too far away.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2015 09:52

From that turcopelier wankathon

"Having been misled, lied to, and humiliated by Netanyahu, President Obama,
who spent precious time, resources, and political capital in the peace process,
is left with no choice but to seek a UNSC resolution that calls for a two-state
solution based on the 1967 borders."

One must give it to Khan. No matter the country, they find some local, some type to sit and wail about his country betrayed the great Khan and hence must be suitably chastised.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/define/bellsRules.html

See the fourth rule.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 27 Mar 2015 16:21

@Karan M
Saar, there is no need for US or EU to recruit anyone, either in Israel or abroad. There is a huge body of anti-Zionist & Leftist Jews, whose deracination is ten times worse than our Left's. See this article for how deracinated Jewish academia in Israel is.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen ... ian-women/

If you can read Hebrew, you can get Tal Nitzan's thesis from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem site

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 27 Mar 2015 17:16

nageshks wrote:@Karan M
Saar, there is no need for US or EU to recruit anyone, either in Israel or abroad. There is a huge body of anti-Zionist & Leftist Jews, whose deracination is ten times worse than our Left's. See this article for how deracinated Jewish academia in Israel is.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen ... ian-women/

If you can read Hebrew, you can get Tal Nitzan's thesis from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem site

Not convinced about this part of your argument, Nagesh:

... whose deracination is ten times worse than our Left's.

There is a statistic (in this particular case, stats on rape committed by IDF on women of other race) that is actually very complementary of the IDF' standards on human rights. The woman 'academic' in question attempts to explain the reasons for this statistic - and admittedly comes up with some truly puke-worthy ones.

But any self-respecting Indian leftist would not even have progressed to this stage. He / she would have simply cooked up statistics and data in a bid to defame the Indian Army or 'Indian culture'. Haven't we seen enough and more examples of this recently and in the past ? What kind of reputation of Indian upper castes has the Indian Left created for global consumption ? How would this reputation compare with the reputation of Jews - who are probably the same or worse on any of the stats associated with human rights or respect for women ?

This particular example does nothing to change my mind that the Indian Left is the worst scum existing on the planet.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 27 Mar 2015 18:24

who wants to compare pig excreta with goat excreta ? because that is precisely comparing the Israeli left with the Yindian left...You have many Jewish/Israeli equivalents of Anjaan Cattlejee or Romila thapads...

I do think that unkil has a role in these...I am pretty sure atrocity literature against Israel has been compiled and provisions to rapidly gram em by the balls have already been made should the need arise...democrat /Anti-Israel , Republican-Pro-Israel is also BS... Many Republican supporters , enjoy a good blast ..not unlike our Baaki biraathers...And Israel has been good at making toys.. American Jews are a wealthy bunch...And many of them are strongly Zionists.... that also means campaign contributions...the several dozen senators that lined up in Madison^2 during Modi visit was not because they suddenly found love for India....it is because Yindian-Amreekis are even richer than Joos...though in Modi's case as in Netanyahu's , GOPERs have some subconscious feeling of the foreign head of states having a republican characteristic (Modi had been touted as ronald reagan ) ..

orthodox jews vote for republicans because they have equally paaki view on abortions , homosexuality and other stupid GOP issues...Though Israelis might wrongly perceive that it is because of this love for Israel...But as of today there would be few amreeki joo's who would go to Israel and leave the comforts of massa..not even the ultra-orthodox haredics

other thing is that Israeli economy is fairly dependent one...and oligarchic... again that was by design...so Unkil can squeeze whenever it must...

Israel is an artificial country ... And I believe that the way forward is to make it natural...over-dependence upon amreeka is a problem...so is shortage of land and a growing non-ashkenazi population which is quite poor...even amongst the ashkenazi's the orthodox haredics are growing faster than liberal/reformed lot(who frequently emigrate) ...haredics like Islamists can be pig headed...they have a lot of kids and don't believe in secular education...so often don't end up in math and science...they are exempted from military service ,to undertake full time study of Torah...

If I had to hedge money over a long term I would hedge against Israel..Not that I dislike em...swimming on black sea is an experience...Humus and falafal are yummy...and some of the smartest people in the world...but odds are aligned against them...

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 27 Mar 2015 20:19

Israel does benefit from a small annual subsidy that the US offers for purchase of US defense equipment - hardly anything significant from a standpoint of the Israeli economy. Also the US seems to account for ~25% of Israeli exports and trending down - so even that does not ring alarm bells.

Would be good to understand better the claims of 'economy dependent on US' and by what measure the Israeli economy is more or less oligarchic than either India or US.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Mar 2015 21:32

gakakkad wrote:If I had to hedge money over a long term I would hedge against Israel..Not that I dislike em...swimming on black sea is an experience...Humus and falafal are yummy...and some of the smartest people in the world...but odds are aligned against them...

If they have to go then its in our interest they "distribute" their Nukes fairly on everyone of their enemy neighbors and their supporters who had compelled Israelis to press the self destruct button. From Istanbul to Islamabad and from Riyadh to Tehran should all be their Mehman in final journey to Vaitarni.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Mar 2015 22:15

gakakkad wrote:who wants to compare pig excreta with goat excreta ? because that is precisely comparing the Israeli left with the Yindian left...You have many Jewish/Israeli equivalents of Anjaan Cattlejee or Romila thapads...
...

It is completely false that Indian left==Israeli/Jewish left.

The history and resulting core nature and urges of the two groups couldn't be more different.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 27 Mar 2015 22:17

Jhujar wrote:
gakakkad wrote:If I had to hedge money over a long term I would hedge against Israel..Not that I dislike em...swimming on black sea is an experience...Humus and falafal are yummy...and some of the smartest people in the world...but odds are aligned against them...
If they have to go then its in our interest they "distribute" their Nukes fairly on everyone of their enemy neighbors and their supporters who had compelled Israelis to press the self destruct button. From Istanbul to Islamabad and from Riyadh to Tehran should all be their Mehman in final journey to Vaitarni.

Please to see this Jhujar-saar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Looks like Israel may have plans to take 1.5 of the 3.5 with them, if they have to go down

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Mar 2015 03:35

Great. Heathens die because Abrahamics can't get along with each other.

Nuclear winter won't respect boundaries.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 28 Mar 2015 08:13

@Arjun , If you look at total Israeli-amreeki trade , (2012) figures it is 45 billion... American FDI to Israel is 10B ..Israeli FDI to US is 10 B..foreign aid is 3 B.. This alone comes close to 70 b ...Israeli GDP in 2012 was 280 b ...so atleast 25% of the Israeli GDP has something direclty to do with US..

Now Israel is strategically located in west asia...close proximity to Europe and Arabic nations ...highest per capita scientists and engineers in the world but a large chunk of them working for american companies..

A lot of start-ups..but mainly funded by Americans...

And 40% of population wanting to emigrate ...

Israel has a lot of talent ...But the 200k odd scientists and engineers can easily be made to emigrate for the US..(which they are in any case)...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/by ... m-1.484945

Immigrants to Israel are people from far worse places...like ethiopian jews... or these days the french one...but emigrants leaving Israel for US are the smart Doctors,engineers,scientists...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 28 Mar 2015 10:14

svenkat wrote:Theres no way on earth Iran can roll over pakhanasthan.TSP is too radicalised for that to happen.

Our interests are in West Punjab.Jerusalem is too far away.

This is illogical beyond belief. In fact, it's a completely unreasonable way to understanding Geopolitics. Sthana-balam (hat-tip ramana garu) is powerful concept which needs to be understood. I don't know what makes you think "Jerusalem is too far away". Please see below for some enlightening info on "far away" places:

Kanyakumari to Kargil------------------------3900km

kanyakumari to Arunachal Pradesh----------3900+km

Kanyakumari to Beijing (road)---------------8000+km (5200km - straight-line distance)

Delhi to Singapore (air travel)---------------4100km

Delhi to Tel-Aviv -----------------------------~4000km (straight-line distance)

Tehran to Tel-Aviv----------------------------1580km (straight-line distance)

Your "West Punjab" can only be secured if the Passes through Khyber are secured in our hands. Khyber can only be secured if we have a total military-political dominance in the region that is presently called Afghanistan. Afghanistan has a boundary with Iran that stretches 100's of kilometers.

Now, does that clarify the connection between "West Punjab" and Iran?????

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 28 Mar 2015 10:17

@GAK, let me first address a point raised by you relating to oligarchy / inequality in Israel before coming to the other points.

A lot has been made of one socialist study that came out a few years ago that purports to show that 20 families control half of the Tel Aviv stock market.

Now, I tried to do a similar estimate for the Indian BSE - and per my estimate not more than 50 families control (as promoters) more than half of the BSE capitalization. India's population is approximately 150 times that of Israel. Working out the proportion - it turns out that it is India that is the FAR more unequal and oligarchic society - and not Israel.

Coming to the US, here are some revealing stats: The 1% May Be Richer Than You Think, Research Shows

The Top 0.1% (yes, zero point one percent) own 24% of US wealth and the top 1% own 37%....Inequality is alive, well and kicking in all high-performance societies including the US, India and Israel. By no means is Israel's stats on this front exceptional.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 28 Mar 2015 10:32

svenkat wrote:devesh,
I am an armchair 'hysterian'.Please educate me on Iranian invasions of India.I have heard of Darius sometime in 6th century BC and Nadir Shah in 18th century.The Iranian influence was more cultural on the muslim rulers.Some of the mughals,deccani sultanates were shia.I read that Lucknow nawabs were shia.

Its Sunnis who provide the numbers and shiites the 'brains' and 'ideology'.No one has any illusions about shiites.In the context of Afghanistan,Iranians and Indians have collobarated in building chabahar ports and roads.

Israel is constrained by its location surrounded by muslim states.At best,we can get those arms which are not vetoed by US.To that extent,we all support Indo-Israel co-operation.Beyond that,it is an appendage of US as far as any long term strategic policy goes.I dont understand why you cant see this.They are next to useless in our confrontation with US backed pakistan.Israel can never oppose pakistan for it just does not have the freedom to do so.Israel was created by the same forces that created pakistan and it is sustained by the same forces that support pakistan.

In the context of Afghanistan, India has only one like-minded ally: Russia. Iran, even regardless of sunni-shia split, has never shown any indication that they treat Taliban as a "threat" to them. in fact, there have been many noises from Taliban even as far back as the 90's (pre-9/11) that they were happy to maintain status-quo with Iran (quid pro-quo...non-interference, etc).

Iran has never "fought" or shown any indication of seriously building consensus against the Afghan Taliban. We should remain under no delusions about this. Even now, with the "Great Satan" negotiating with Taliban, Iran could easily ramp up rhetoric on the Taliban as "collaborating with....", but they choose to remain silent. Also, if history is anything to go by, everytime the Iranians decided to invade into India, the supposed rivalry with Sunni Afghanistan never amounts to anything. the Sunnis in Afghanistan don't stop an invading Persian army if the destination happens to be the "Hindustan".

Iran doesn't need to "roll over" Pakis. Iran will make friends with Pakis. All the Jihadis of all stripes join hands to share the spoils. At the very least, Iran will want to secure its interests in West Afghanistan. If Iran becomes free to achieve that goal on the Eastern borders, it will be a momentous turning point for Indian subcontinent. That event will mark the beginning of the Afghani-Punjabi Taliban merging into one and the same. This, in effect, again results in Jihadi consolidation in Islamic lands. Next target will be India.

I don't see any way forward for India but to eventually destroy the Paki military entirely and establish an Indian Protectorate extending all the way to Afghanistan.

Until we get to that capacity, in the meanwhile, it's best to keep Iran distracted and looking West, not East. The Sthana balam effect of Iran is potent. It sits at the cross-roads of 2 historically powerful geopolitical entities: Mediterranean coastal-inland imperialism & Bharata-varsha.

In the existing geopolitical dominance of Islamism in NW-India, especially with how the Jihadi organizations in that area are structured, if Iran secures its interests in the Western portion of Afghanistan, Jihad on Hindus won't be too far.

Afghanistan's current situation is such that it's not yet in a stage to fully fuse into a single entity with Paki Jihadis. But if they lose the Western half, they'll have every incentive to team up, sink the differences, and negotiate a mutual truce with Iranians and collectively turn on what they consider softer targets.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 28 Mar 2015 11:17

gakakkad wrote:@Arjun , If you look at total Israeli-amreeki trade , (2012) figures it is 45 billion... American FDI to Israel is 10B ..Israeli FDI to US is 10 B..foreign aid is 3 B.. This alone comes close to 70 b ...Israeli GDP in 2012 was 280 b ...so atleast 25% of the Israeli GDP has something direclty to do with US..

Now Israel is strategically located in west asia...close proximity to Europe and Arabic nations ...highest per capita scientists and engineers in the world but a large chunk of them working for american companies..

A lot of start-ups..but mainly funded by Americans...

And 40% of population wanting to emigrate ...

Israel has a lot of talent ...But the 200k odd scientists and engineers can easily be made to emigrate for the US..(which they are in any case)...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/by ... m-1.484945

Immigrants to Israel are people from far worse places...like ethiopian jews... or these days the french one...but emigrants leaving Israel for US are the smart Doctors,engineers,scientists...

@GAK, you seem to forget that the US IS the single largest economy in the world and dominates international capital flows by far. The US alone accounts for as much as ~23% of global GDP.

Of Israel's exports, the US accounts for ~25%, and trending down. As comparison, China and Japan have the US at around 17 - 18% of their exports - Israel should be reaching these same levels probably in the next couple of years. In any case - the future of Israel trade lies in Asia (with India, China and SE Asia) - and that is reflected in the trends in Israeli cross-border trade.

Coming to imports, the US accounts for 10-12% - nothing out of the ordinary. The somewhat higher degree of export trade with the US is only a reflection of the relative sophistication of the Israeli economy.

FDI - the US is the big global daddy of FDI and accounts for 30% of global outflows. The percentage of FDI into Israel from the US actually seems to be lower than this international average. The US is also among the Top 2 globally in FDI inflows - in line with the observed Israeli data.

More than half of global VC capital is from the US. Even if you take India's VC scene (which has become far more active over the last few years) - the ultimate institutional investor is likely to be the US in most cases.

Coming to your final point about emigration - I am working on a personal thesis that the diaspora plays a HUGELY critical driver for any country's economy. The reason for Jewish success is primarily on account of their acting as a dispersed diaspora across all the leading economies. If they had stayed put in the Middle East over the last couple of millennia - I have no doubt at all that the community would have been nowhere near as successful. Similarly, China's success today is significantly due to the events of the nineteenth century that forced millions of Chinese to emigrate to SE Asia. So, I don't see the emigration of some portion of the top tier out of Israel as any kind of negative at all.

Much of the FDI we are talking about into Israel is on account of the Jewish diaspora. Indian Americans may outperform Jewish Americans in average household income - but I doubt they come close (not yet anyway) in terms of wealth. (FYI, just as a point of comparison, there are 6 Indian American billionaires as opposed to something like 100 Jewish American ones).

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 29 Mar 2015 08:54

Posting here and must read article (not sure if posted earlier)

The Hidden History of the Incredibly Evil Khazarian Mafia

The curtain is now being pulled back to fully expose the Khazarian Mafia and it's evil plan to infiltrate, tyrannize the whole World and eradicate all Abrahamic Religions and allow only their Babylonian Talmudism also known as Luciferianism, Satanism or ancient Baal worship.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Apr 2015 07:47

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Apr 2015 16:44

Some history:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/0 ... ed-in-1947

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Apr 2015 06:31

Efraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad and the Israeli National Security Council on the Iran deal:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 91,00.html

And thus President Obama could say there is a historical dimension to the agreement that was reached. Anyone who has followed events in Iran in recent decades or has studied the matter has to admit truthfully that he never believed Iran would ever agree to discuss these issues, let alone agree to each of the clauses I have mentioned.

One of the arguments being voiced against the continuation of the talks is that Iran has a history of lies and cunning, and can thus be expected to breach the agreement and deceive the world. True, the Iranians have a tendency to deceive, but they could do so even if they agreed to zero centrifuges, the closure of all their nuclear facilities, and supervision on the part of the Mossad itself. Loopholes can always be found, so there is no such thing as a "good agreement." The Iranians will uphold an agreement only if it is worth their while.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Apr 2015 02:09

The Jerusalem Post reports:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report ... war-393862
"Report: Israel treating al-Qaida fighters wounded in Syria civil war"

However, it is quoting the Wall Street Journal.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Apr 2015 22:18

This was on the top of the "most emailed story" list on the NYTimes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/us/ab ... igion.html

A growing number of airline passengers, particularly on trips between the United States and Israel, are now sharing stories of conflicts between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men trying to follow their faith and women just hoping to sit down. Several flights from New York to Israel over the last year have been delayed or disrupted over the issue, and with social media spreading outrage and debate, the disputes have spawned a protest initiative, an online petition and a spoof safety video from a Jewish magazine suggesting a full-body safety vest (“Yes, it’s kosher!”) to protect ultra-Orthodox men from women seated next to them on airplanes.

It is not an entirely new issue; some ultra-Orthodox travelers have tried to avoid mixed-sex seating for years. But now the ultra-Orthodox Jewish population is growing rapidly because of high birthrates. Ultra-Orthodox men and their families now make up a larger share of airline travelers to Israel and other locations, giving them more economic clout with airlines, and they are making their views more widely known in response to what they see as the sexualization of society.

The issues on airplanes echo controversies over efforts to separate men and women on buses and streets, as well as to remove women from some news photographs.

“The ultra-Orthodox have increasingly seen gender separation as a kind of litmus test of Orthodoxy — it wasn’t always that way, but it has become that way,” said Samuel Heilman, a professor of sociology at Queens College. “There is an ongoing culture war between these people and the rest of the modern world, and because the modern world has increasingly sought to become gender neutral, that has added to the desire to say, ‘We’re not like that.’

If the Haredi become a majority, watch out for trouble.