Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

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shiv
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Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 05 Jan 2008 20:20

Old thread in trash
Pl stay on topic

JwalaMukhi
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Postby JwalaMukhi » 05 Jan 2008 21:56

Surya wrote:
None of the posters seem to have even visited Israel.

Anyway I have to get off my lazy ass and write up a bit on my travels


Just curious. May I take the liberty and request you. Please summarize in 4 or 5 sentences, the gist of your take from the travels, if possible. Thanks.

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Postby Rudranathh » 05 Jan 2008 22:00

JwalaMukhi wrote:Surya wrote:
None of the posters seem to have even visited Israel.

Anyway I have to get off my lazy ass and write up a bit on my travels


Just curious. May I take the liberty and request you. Please summarize in 4 or 5 sentences, the gist of your take from the travels, if possible. Thanks.

Ok just 5 lines.

Surya goes to Israel.

Surya sees a beautiful girl.

Surya falls in love with her and proposes.

The girl also reciprocates his love.

Surya is now married and living happily ever after. End of Story.

And BTW shivji said stick to topic otherwise Deshnikala. :wink:

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Postby Surya » 05 Jan 2008 22:16

Rudra Rudra -- if only you saw the wimen there!!!! Especially Tel Aviv






Sighhhhhhhhhhhh


But anyway came back to SHQ.

mukhi

To sum it up - Israelis are a cleaner , Jewish version of India.

Thats why one feels at home. Cantankerous, multi ethnic (nationality), diverse, pretty argumentative (not as much :D ), bureacratic, things happening at their pace - all familiar to us.

Suffice to say - felt at home


Ok will write up tonite while watching the playoffs

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Postby hnair » 05 Jan 2008 22:32

Surya wrote:Rudra Rudra -- if only you saw the wimen there!!!! Especially Tel Aviv

Sighhhhhhhhhhhh


But anyway came back to SHQ.

mukhi

To sum it up - Israelis are a cleaner , Jewish version of India.

Thats why one feels at home. Cantankerous, multi ethnic (nationality), diverse, pretty argumentative (not as much :D ), bureacratic, things happening at their pace - all familiar to us.

Suffice to say - felt at home


Ok will write up tonite while watching the playoffs


Amen sir! A stint of army service seems to do wonders for even the frumpiest of the babushka genes. The way most of them jut their medal areas out with confidence makes me want to institute compulsory service for the slouch shouldered mallu "academic" girls.

It is fun to hang around Israelis, particularly the argumentative part. Many a bbq has been spent arguing over ribs (yeah, non-kosh etc), religion and which is the best Pali restaurant around. For a country that is surrounded by crazies, they sure are a relaxed lot.

But their beaches suck for more than one reason. And thank God for that..... :P

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Postby Philip » 08 Jan 2008 10:41

Israel's richest man,Lev Leviev, leaves for London for tax purposes.Many Israelis are doing the same.The tycoon mentioned,was the man who broke the monopoly of De Beers,the world's diamond kings.Like Mr.Mittal,the steel tycoon,more and more billionaires are turning to London as home for tax and other purposes.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_b ... 318016.ece

Israel's richest man emigrates to Britain - and buys a £35m, bullet-proof mansion
By Andy McSmith
Published: 08 January 2008
Lev Leviev, who until a week ago was classified as the richest man in Israel, has joined the growing list of Israeli billionaires who have made their homes in London, where wealthy foreigners are not asked to pay tax on income earned overseas.

This month, Mr Leviev officially moved into a bullet-proof house in Hampstead, which he bought for £35m. His near neighbours include several other mega-rich Israeli tycoons who prefer UK tax rates. In Israel, they are liable for tax on all their income, no matter where it is from.

Mr Leviev is famous in international circles as the man who broke the cartel controlled by the multinational diamond company, De Beers, by buying up diamond mines in Russia, Angola and Namibia. It is said that one third of all the diamonds sold anywhere in the world are cut and polished by his company.

Recently, he also went on a worldwide property buying spree, and opened a jewellery shop in New York's Madison Avenue. His acquisitions included the former New York Times building, for which he paid almost £300m.

News of his departure has shocked the Israeli business community and created a political headache for its government, because of the drain of wealth from Tel Aviv to London. Among those who have made their homes in London are Zvi Meitar, the founder of one of Israel's biggest law firms; Benny Steinmitz, a diamond dealer and property tycoon; Yigal Zilka, head of Queenco Leisure International; and the real estate developer, Sammy Shimon.

Mr Leviev's departure knocked 11 per cent off the stock market value of his company, Africa-Israel Investments. Officially, his spokesman has said that the multinational nature of Mr Leviev's business meant he has spent more time in London than Tel Aviv over the past year. Unofficially, another motive for moving is a dispute with the government over his 2002 tax bill.

His wife, Olga, and his two youngest children, aged 15 and 13, have also moved to London. Their other seven children have stayed in Israel, where their daughter Tzvia Leviev-Alazarov, will take charge of the family's Israeli interests. Just before he left, Mr Leviev sold his private jet and he is reported to have bought a bigger one.

Last September, Forbes magazine listed Mr Leviev as the 12th richest man in the Middle East, with a fortune of just over £2bn. He is thought to have grown richer since. He is a friend of the Russian oligarch, Roman Abramovich, and introduced him to Avram Grant, who was appointed manager of Chelsea football club last September.

Until now, Mr Leviev's life has been a success story that would have delighted Israel's founding fathers. His family, who are strict Bukharian Orthodox Jews, arrived penniless, in 1971, from Uzbekistan, then part of the Soviet Union. His grandfather had been deported to Siberia. Soon after reaching Israel, Mr Leviev left school to become a diamond cutter, and upheld a family tradition by circumcising his sons, and the sons of work colleagues.

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Postby Rudranathh » 08 Jan 2008 11:10

Surya wrote:Rudra Rudra -- if only you saw the wimen there!!!!

Surya anna when it comes to Israel or any other country i dont care about how the women looks. I try to see if we can learn something from their culture. It would interesting if you could shed some light on-

1) The weapons that civilians there are allowed to carry. Are there any restrictions on the calibre which the civilians can use? Did you see any weapons with the civilians during your stay? Did you visit any shooting ranges there?

2) How are the commies there being tackled? Do these scums control any media organisations in Israel?

3) Did you visit any areas which are regularly targeted by the Qassam rockets? Any defensive measures you observed that can be implemented in India?

And any other interesting things that can be usefully implemented in India.
Ok will write up tonite while watching the playoffs

Anna when is this tonite going to come? Now you are acting like Ekta kapoor. :)
Please take a day's leave from office and write the Israeli travelogue or better still write it in the office itself and post it on BR. :D

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Postby Qan Payle » 08 Jan 2008 12:17

Dr Shiv, whats the new email id? Lost touch with you. An old friend.

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Postby JE Menon » 08 Jan 2008 14:41

LNS, check ur mail boss... I've saved you a headache... :D

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Postby Igorr » 08 Jan 2008 18:47

Philip wrote:Israel's richest man,Lev Leviev, leaves for London for tax purposes.Many Israelis are doing the same.

I doubt in this cause, the taxes remained unchanged in Israel last years, even went down a bit. The cause of his departure is political I think. With the stagnation in peace process, the atmosphere in both Israeli buiseness and politics becomes to be gloom. Also the relations between the FSU immigrants community and the establishement gonna worse. Some political and economic pressure is felt from the Sabras beurocracy on the sectarian immigrant circles in economics. The Levayev's main buiseness is in Russia, with the diamont gigant "Alrosa" so he has many il wishers between pro-US Israeli esteblishement. In addition, he helped very much to the pro-Putin Russian chief rabbi Berl Lazar, giving a lot of money for the Russian Jewish community, fro Russian HABAD especially.

The educational segregation and disparity - is next good example of such conflict. One citation: " sharp decline of the educational level amongst Russian-speaking emigrants. If, among the older generation, 68% had attained the highest or medium level of education, amongst the younger generation only about 40 % complete their secondary education and only about 30% get into a university." http://russiandenver.50megs.com/panther ... s_will.htm

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Postby surinder » 10 Jan 2008 05:34

admins,

can I do a quick response/question to Jagan about Gen. Jacobs & the 1971 war here?

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Postby JaiS » 12 Jan 2008 09:57

Al Sadler Bin Tel Avivi,

In resbonse to your broposal for Ph and D, Prafessar Lalmasala has asked me to test your abtitude by translating from Kaffir Yehudi language.

http://news.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=530973

Pliss to be translate what is being said, and we can move ahead with the Ph and D.

Thanks.

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Postby pradeepe » 12 Jan 2008 10:28

Surya wrote:To sum it up - Israelis are a cleaner , Jewish version of India.

Thats why one feels at home. Cantankerous, multi ethnic (nationality), diverse, pretty argumentative (not as much :D ), bureacratic, things happening at their pace - all familiar to us.


Exactly how I felt when there, apart from the argumentative part. They are more so IMHO. Very voiciferous and opinionated.

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Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2008 02:52

Xposting

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/postin ... t&p=442091

FIrst part of my first visit to Israel in

2004

Israel - till the other day was this plucky country in the middle of hostile Arab nations, where my Indian jewish friends referred to fondly but seemed to head to New York,
known for its audacious raids on Entebbe and Osirak, the country from where a stream of crazy young people seem to head for Goa and Himachal, eat falafel and shwarma and a
place where every few weeks a suicide bomber would strike.
A country which in the last few years had become more and more linked again to India.
Now my company wanted me to visit our Development office in Israel. I would now see it close up and experience it. Funnily enough I got the chance since all the other Americans
and Europeans passed up the chance due to the risks involved.
First thing was to get a visa for Israel. It was interesting process especially the way the security was handled but for obvious reasons I will not go into it here.
Meanwhile friends called up wondering whether I had gone mad. Why would you want to take the chance? What about your wife? Err - hmm never asked her what she thought of it!!!
Anyway its destiny, karma and wot not.
I love travel (well to most places) and it is one of my joi de vivre (the other being food and women - the latter I heard a lot about). With mounting excitement I got ready,
absorbing the horror stories from others - the hard questions and long interviews at the sirport security, the muffled explosions of Katyushas while hiding in the hotel basement
during a rocket attack etc. But some of it was 4 - 5 yrs ago. I absorbed it all - excited and a tad bit nervous.

Finally the day arrived. Of course in the course of getting a cheap ticket, I had a weird itenary - fly to Toronto, before taking a n Air Canada flight to Tel Aviv. In toronto
one had to exit through immigration, asked in all seriousness by an immigration officer of my purpose of visit and duration of stay and answered equally seriously - as fast as
the bus will take me to the International teminal and pass through immigration.
The gate area was a tad chaotic. Mostly US and Canadian jews visiting family, Orthodox jews with their beards and cap - and few foreigners (the nervous looking ones). Many were
speaking (guessing it was Hebrew) with a lot of hand gestures.
Boarding was announced and like in India a mad rush to the gate ensued - hmmm this is going to be interesting. Dinner seemed like a flight to India, special meals galore (kosher
etc.). And after dinner a special announcement "Sleeping is strictly prohibited in the aisles and gangway". My neighbour a Russian immigrant told me this happens on flights to
Russia and Ukraine.Sometime later a fight broke out with a lot of animated gesturing. chuckled tomyself thinking these guys are crazy like Indians. As dawn broke we crossed the
Mediterranean en route to Tel Aviv. With the early morning sun blinding us, we descened over the shiny buildings and sparkling sea. I was expecting Ben Gurion International to
be a fortress, bristling with gun\missle emplacements. They probably were somewhere in the vicinity - hidden out of sight. As the aircraft taxied to the gate I saw rows of C
130s (counted 7), IAI , Kfirs and some Skyhawks

As airports go this was small, and aircraft did not roll to a gate. Instead it was the old fashioned way, with mobile stairway being brought in and buses to take you to the
arrival hall. A security official pulled me out to check my visa etc. Till he finished we kept the bus waiting but none seemed to care.There were a dozen odd counters but only 2
were manned. A group of blue uniformed women sat gossiping on the side. Aah shades of India again. However 10 minutes somebody must have let them know that thye have work to do
as they all rushed to man the remaining counters. All were women - not a single guy!!! I am not complaining!! They also had an archaic process where they give you a slip when
they check and stamp your passport, and you walk 20 feet to the gate and you hand it to another person!! Sigh - the Brits really do a job on all the places they ruled. 20
minutes wait for baggage, get some currency converted, and then I was out. Saw my name on a one of those little placards and walked over. Was my company's driver (Wahib) and
pretty soon we were heading out of the airport. Construction was going on for a new Terminal. As the morning warmed up I settled back to take in the sights and smells of Israel.
Again it seemed to have a familiar look to it. The brown and green baked look, concrete buildings with haphazard windows of different shapes with air conditioners thrust into
available gaps.
It looked like India except there was no crowding and it was comparitively cleaner. We swung into Highway 2 heading north to the town of nahariya. All i knew was it was near
Haifa. As we drove along, merging with a steady stream of traffic heading north. Israelis heading for the beaches for their weekend. Familiar names from the evening news passed
by. Large banana farms covered with plastic stretched in the horizon. here and there Israelis had pulled there cars over and were enjoying the beaches.
Curved past Haifa, through Accra before entering the little tourist town of Nahariya. Checked by a pistol carrying guard at the entrance to the hotel, before being allowed in a
procedure I would encounter everywhere.The hotel lobby was filled with shrieking children, garrulous adults as Israelis vacationed. After checking in, the pretty dark haired girl
asked me where in India I was from. Hmm - 'where in India?". I said Bombay. She said she had visted Rajasthan a few years ago and a friendly Indian guy had taken them all
around, home for lunch etc. Then she asked me if i wanted the Indian channel. Huh - Indian channel ?? I had no idea what she was talking about but told her yes.
The room was minimal, cane furniture, but overlooked the beach. Switched the TV and chaged the channels till I came to Zee!!!! In the US I am pretty much out of Indian TV and
Indian movies. my links to India are through food and websites. So it was a initial 15 minute nostalgic feeling as I heard familiar Hindi\English before the same old saas bahu
fights reminded me why I avoided these in the first place. My routine in a new place is to freshen up, wear something comfortable and walk around a bit. It was noon and the
sun was beating fiercely. Ventured towards the downtown part of Nahariya - but the sun seared my skin - not faced the Asian summer sun for a decade. So after 20 mins I decided
to beat a hasty retreat to my air conditioned room. Went into a local convenience store and got myself a bottle of Lemonade (mint) and a couple of yogurt based drinks. This will
have to suffice till evening. Wiled the afternoon away watching Zee TV (to fight sleep), finishing my lemonade and wait for the sun to start setting. From the pool below came
the sounds of children yelling, adults bellowing and loud music. Finally at 5.30, decided to go out to explore and find something to eat (the lemonade seemed to have never
registered in my body). Asked the hotel recptionist for directions to downtown Nahariya and was told to walk straight till I hit Main street. So I took off, walking past nice
bungalows,apartments similar to ones in India. I was told to walk for about a mile before I would hit main street where a river runs through downtown. I roughly calculated that
I had walked a mile and the only large street I saw was Haa Gaton street and what looked like a big drain with a trickle of water in the middle of it. I said to myself this
cannot be it and walked further for another mile only to see more aprtments and bungalows. Ok so maybe that was the right road and turned back. Everything was closed. Walked up
and down Haagaton street. Almost all the shops were closed. Hmm - Saturday - 6ish and nothing open. Maybe they do not open today. The only places open were a Chinese restaurant
and a few ARab shops (based on names). At this point I had no idea what the Arab shops were selling although it seemed to be grilled meat. I decided to stick to the Chinese, had
a pleasant meal and walked back to the Hotel. I told the receptionist I never found main street and only went up Haa Gaton street. She laughed and said that was Main street. Haa
Gaton means Main street in Hebrew. AAaaggh. She also told me everything will open after sunset as it is the Sabbath. Darn - I had completely forgotten about the Sabbath. Anyway
by now I was too tired so decided to retire for the night.As I stood in the balcony, watching the sun set, the evening suddenly seemed to come alive. There was a free concert
going on the beach with lots of teens dancing away. The young women in some of the most audacious clothes i had seen. Hebrew rock!! The hotel pool side speakers blared their
music and kids frolicked on the beach. Nahariya was stirring for a long warm night of fun but jet lag was now catching up and I had to go to work tomorrow ON A SUNDAY. So I
struggled to fall asleep with all the sounds of summer in Nahariya.

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Postby JwalaMukhi » 15 Jan 2008 02:59

Thanks, Suryaji. Nice beginning. Looking forward for more...

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Postby svinayak » 15 Jan 2008 04:25

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/943902.html
CIA: We said back in 1974 that Israel had nuclear weapons

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Postby shyamd » 16 Jan 2008 23:27

Following from my earlier reports about Gaza.

- It is now learnt that Hamas had begun war preparations by digging trenches and fortifications learning from the Hezbollah experience. Hamas has estimated 500 israeli's and 1500 palestinian deaths.

- 2 new tunnels have been built between Sinai and Rafah.

- Hamas have received Anti tank weapons, 15 tons of explosives, 14000 assault rifles.

- 150 tunnels in use, most leading to houses of prominent leaders in palestine.

- Egyptian officers tasked to control this are corrupt and take bribes.

- Hamas is building these new fortifications through Iranian (al quds) contractors who smuggled in through egypt.

- Hamas has ended up closing ranks with AQ, as they have now found more militants who are willing to blow up Israeli tanks using suicide.

- Armed with chlorine through Iraqi and Egyptians smugglers.

---------------------------------------
Terrible situation for the israeli's to be in. It is getting tougher and tougher as the days go on.

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Postby shyamd » 17 Jan 2008 20:18

Israel Test Fires Unknown Missile From Palmahim Base

1/17/2008 5:15:25 AM Thursday, Israel test fired a missile from the Palmahim air force base in the center of the country.

The Israeli Defense Ministry only said that the experiment tested the missile's rocket propulsion system, and was successful but did not provide details concerning the type of missile and the purpose it served.

Israel uses the Palmahim air force base to launch its various missiles, including the Arrow Missile Defense System and the Shavit satellite launcher.



AJC Responds to Arun Gandhi Blog on Jews, Israel

[quote]January 13, 2008 – New York – The American Jewish Committee is deeply disturbed by Arun Gandhi’s derisive comments about Jews and the state of Israel in his blog on the Washington Post/Newsweek “On Faithâ€

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Postby Rudranathh » 17 Jan 2008 20:58

[quote="shyamd"]AJC Responds to Arun Gandhi Blog on Jews, Israel

[quote]January 13, 2008 – New York – The American Jewish Committee is deeply disturbed by Arun Gandhi’s derisive comments about Jews and the state of Israel in his blog on the Washington Post/Newsweek “On Faithâ€

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Postby Anujan » 17 Jan 2008 21:16

shyamd wrote:Terrible situation for the israeli's to be in. It is getting tougher and tougher as the days go on.


This is something that has always bothered me. Maybe the gurus/Israelis on the forum can throw some gyaan (enlightenment) my way. The Jewish population in Israel is not growing as fast as the Palestinian and arab population nearby. A whole generation of arab and Palestinian children, right from birth, are indoctrinated on Jihad and grow up to be radicals (anyone remember the bizarre jihadi mickey mouse on youtube ? apparently it is a palestinian children's program - mickey singing the virtues of jihad :shock: ). The older, pragmatic arab and palestinian leadership is either dying or being sidelined.

Add to that, when technology trickles down and becomes widely available, the state has more difficulty countering asymmetric warfare and needs a larger technological lead. What I mean by this is - if the terrorists only had a gun, it is easy to fight them. When they have guns and RDX (C4) and suicide bomb, it is more difficult. When it becomes guns, RDX, RPGs and tunnels, it is a vastly bigger headache. This is only getting worse.

My question is this. With a population deficit on the israeli side, with totally radicalized enemies whose capability is only increasing by the day on the arab and palestinian side, I am worried that the israelis have a far more bleak and difficult future. Do they recognize these factors ? What is their plan to tackle it ?

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Postby ShauryaT » 17 Jan 2008 22:11

lakshmic wrote:My question is this. With a population deficit on the israeli side, with totally radicalized enemies whose capability is only increasing by the day on the arab and palestinian side, I am worried that the israelis have a far more bleak and difficult future. Do they recognize these factors ? What is their plan to tackle it ?
Walls and fences.

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Postby bart » 17 Jan 2008 23:25

lakshmic wrote:
shyamd wrote:Terrible situation for the israeli's to be in. It is getting tougher and tougher as the days go on.


This is something that has always bothered me. Maybe the gurus/Israelis on the forum can throw some gyaan (enlightenment) my way. The Jewish population in Israel is not growing as fast as the Palestinian and arab population nearby. A whole generation of arab and Palestinian children, right from birth, are indoctrinated on Jihad and grow up to be radicals (anyone remember the bizarre jihadi mickey mouse on youtube ? apparently it is a palestinian children's program - mickey singing the virtues of jihad :shock: ). The older, pragmatic arab and palestinian leadership is either dying or being sidelined.



It depends on which Arabs you are talking about. If the Palestinian ones, they are pretty much controlled via the wall that has I believe now been completed. It makes a hell of a difference as most common Israelis attest to. The only way someone can easily attack from the other side is via rockets like Hamas, and that is mainly on the Lebanon border - one of my colleagues went back to check out his workplace during the last Lebanon war and his parked car was totaled by a Katusha though nobody was in it at the time. But overall the Israelis are well equipped and know how to deal with that. As far as the above category of Arabs go, Israel is way ahead of them and can easily deal with them, not just with technological superiority but with much better organization, intelligence and discipline, attributes they have always had since the modern state was born. The Palestinians are in the same dilemma as Pakis, i.e with their current level of thought they will never be able to beat Israel, the only way they can do so is by upgrading their entire culture, society, values and world-view, and if at all they are able to do that they will find that they are exactly the same as Israelis and the 'raisen-dieter' of their conflict is gone.


If you are talking about the 1 million or so Israeli Arabs (i.e Arabs living in and amongst Jews in Israel as Israeli citizens) though there are possible some that are bad apples, most of them pose no real threat to Israel, and if they did it would be very easy for Israel to monitor/restrict them. Many of them were in fact friendly with the earlier Jewish returnees during WW2 etc. Most of those Arabs are business people and many quite prosperous and have good ties to Jewish people, for example there is a famous bakery in the Arab part of Tel Aviv called Aboulafia (I think) which has mostly Jewish customers. In any case they have a lot to gain from Israel and they enjoy a standard of living and freedoms that they would not be able to get anywhere else in the Arab world (sure in Saudi etc they could get oil-money but hardly the quality of life), and are not keen to throw it away.

There are places like Old Jerusalem where tensions between communities could be higher but that is probably because the places are packed with ultra-orthodox people of all religions and religious emblems of huge significance to each religion. This is not limited to Jew vs Muslim, Old Jerusalem seems to be a much more highly charged environment in general - ultra-orthodox Jews are known to stone other Jews driving cars through their areas on the Sabbath, and the Armenian and Greek orthodox church priests recently almost came to blows over which one would have the privilege of opening and closing the doors of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre!

IMHO, only Israelis can destroy Israel. If they continue to be as determined, far-sighted and hardworking as they have been in the last 50 years, nobody can touch them. But if their populace becomes as dumbed down as EU or America and their leaders as incompetent and narrow-minded as America they will find it harder.

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Postby bart » 17 Jan 2008 23:43

For anybody who hasn't done so already please watch the movie Exodus based on a book by Leon Uris (or read the book). It's a bit long, jingoistic and tells the story mainly from the Jewish perspective, however it gives a good idea of the challenges faced during the WW2 and post WW2 times.

The side of the road from TLV to Jerusalem is at certain points littered with old WW2 trucks used by the Hagannah and Jewish forces during the initial war where the superior Arab forces would from the mountain-tops shoot down at the less equipped Israelis on the road below. The burned out truck chassis have been left there as a memorial.

The threats faced by Israel right now are peanuts compared with the threats they have faced and dealt with in the past 50-odd years.

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Postby shyamd » 18 Jan 2008 16:00

Gaza has been blockaded as of last night. The first helicopter operations were launched yesterday after heavy rocket bombardment by Hamas.


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Postby shyamd » 20 Jan 2008 22:57

Apparently Moscow is supporting Hamas as a counterweight to US supported Fatah.
--------------------
After all the Hamas bombardment & terrorist acts...the PLO or Palestinian officials have started an internet campaign in the UK to put pressure on Israel. I find this unbelievable:


Dear All,

BEFORE I START CAN YOU PLEASE READ TO THE END AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Brothers, sisters, Muslims, not Muslims & All Humans.

Gaza Strip (Palestine) is on the brink of one of the greatest humanitarian catastrophes of our time. Since the beginning of 2006, the European Union, America and most of the world have been part of those who have uimposed sanctions on Gaza.

Today...Now (20/01/2008 17.46 GMT) There is less than one hour until all power to Gaza gets cut off. Since this morning, Israel has not allowed fuel to enter Gaza. This may seem trivial, but below are just some of the things which the innocent citizens of Gaza Strip will have to live with (those who are lucky enough to stay alive through this strangulation):

* No fuel for cars
* No fuel for generators
* Hospitals will have no more electricity. This means that anyone who is attatched to a machine will no longer be able to use it. THIS MEANS THEY WILL DIE!
* 400 Kidney patients will no longer be able to use dialysis which means that they will also die
* Children who are born will have no heating ( the temperature in Gaza now is -3 degrees Centigrade)
* Everyone in gaza will have no heating
* There will be no way to sterilise hospital equipment, so disease will spread.

The list can go on for ever, just think now, if we had no electricity, no petrol, no diesel, and electricity generators which are made to work for a couple of hours before they overheat, what would happen to us.

All of the above is inaddition to there being no food entering gaza, and hardly any local produce, since the Israelis have been known to bulldose most farmland in Gaza.

Also, since imports into Gaza is prohibited, there is no cement, not to build houses, BUT TO MAKE THE GRAVES FOR THOSE WHO DIE. So they die in despair, and dont have a proper grave. This again will; lead to the spread of disease in Gaza.

This is a very quick picture of what Gaza is going through as we type this letter.

So what to do? TELL EVERYONE YOU CAN. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE ON YOUR LISTS. TV stations in gaza will have to close because of the power cut, so only God knows what the Israelis will do to Gaza tonight.

I urge everyone to contact your local MP, and anyone in authority to put what little pressure we can on them to try to make a change.

There is a petition which is being authorised by the prime ministers office, which should be in circulation soon.

We ask God to help our brothers and sisters in Islam, Christianity and Humanity to end this catastrophe.

Thank You

Rudranathh
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Postby Rudranathh » 21 Jan 2008 09:09

ISRO to launch Israeli satellite
Pallava Bagla
Monday, January 21, 2008 (New Delhi)

Amidst much secrecy, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) agency is all set to make a commercial launch of an Israeli satellite.

The 350 kg satellite called TECSAR and also referred to sometimes as Polaris is being launched from Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh using the Indian workhorse rocket the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV).

Considering the extreme geopolitical sensitivity of the launch, ISRO has made no formal announcement for this mission.
-----
Beside the report, there is this photo of an missile launch.

Cant these people differentiate between an satellite launch and missile launch?

Nayak
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Postby Nayak » 21 Jan 2008 09:35

Why do Palis have this love of life ?

Anywayz Mo and the Holy book have made it clear, martyrdom is the only path for paradise.

Israel should just drop a mini nook on those idiots.

arun
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Postby arun » 21 Jan 2008 14:40

X Post.

ISRO Press Release :

PSLV Successfully Launches Israeli Satellite

Dilbu
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Postby Dilbu » 21 Jan 2008 19:19

Israeli 'spy satellite' launched by Indian rocket
Sriharikota (PTI): India on Monday successfully placed an Israeli "spy satellite" in the polar orbit after a textbook launch carried out under a veil of secrecy from the Sriharikota space station.

The homegrown Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-C10) carrying the advanced 300-kg satellite TECSAR or Polaris as it is sometimes called lifted off flawlessly from the First Launch Pad (FLP) at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at 0915 hours as scheduled, a statement by the Indian Space Research Organisation(ISRO) said here.

The commercial satellite, which has a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), an advanced radar system, was placed in its intended orbit in 19 minutes 45 seconds after a perfect lift-off, ISRO said.

The satellite is reported to be Israel's most advanced satellite and the radar system allows it to view much more than its existing Ofek satellites that use cameras.It can take pictures of small targets under cloudy and foggy conditions and carry out day and night and all weather imaging. The first pictures are expected to be beamed in two weeks.

It is expected to give a boost to Israel's intelligence gathering capabilities and help keep an eye on its hostile neighbours.( The "spy" satellite is of great importance to Israel as it will be able to track the goings-on in the territory of its main enemy Iran and its alleged efforts to develop nuclear arms, an AP report from Jerusalem said quoting Defence officials).

The satellite was placed its intended orbit with a Perigee (nearest point to earth) of 450 km and Apogee (farthest point to earth) of 580 km, the ISRO statement said.

"The TECSAR is the first satellite of its kind developed in Israel, and ranks among the world's most advanced space system," according to a statement by IAI.

The launch of the satellite was executed under a commercial contract between Israel Aerospace Industries (AIA) and Antrix Corporation, the release said. The decision by Israeal to take India's help was taken three years back.

TECSAR is a Synthetic Aperture Radar technology satellite, the design, development and fabrication of which were led by MBT Space, a division of the Israeli Aerospace industries with participation of other high-tech industries such as ELTA, Tadiran, Spectralink and Rafael.

This is the second time that a "core alone" PSLV configuration had put a foreign satellite into orbit, meaning only the main PSLV vehicle was used for the TECSAR launch. The additional strap-on engines or booster motors tot ake up more than 600 kg payloads of satellites were not used.

In April 2007, an Italian satellite Agile was put into orbit in such a configuration.

The launch of the radar-imaging, remote-sensing satellite, was shrouded in secrecy. The launch was originally scheduled in September 2007 though no date was specified.

A section of the media had speculated that the launch was abandoned following 'pressure' from some countries, a claim strongly denied by ISRO, which cited non-resolution of technical issues as the reason for the delay.

shyamd
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Postby shyamd » 22 Jan 2008 01:43

[url=http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=4956]In a polemical assault on Israel as a Jewish state, Saudi prince offers peace plan for “Arab Jewsâ€

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Postby Sadler » 22 Jan 2008 03:18

some general on/offline chat from idf.

(1) SAR technology, resolution of 10 centimeters.
(2) India will have access to at least some of imagery. pretty much anything related to porkistan will be given to india.
(3) india apparently gave israel a price break for imagery (off record talk).
(4) israel diversifying launch options. not to put all eggs in american basket. US not happy.

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Postby Jay » 22 Jan 2008 04:15

India launches Israeli satellite
Tecsar satellite
Officials say the satellite has already begun transmitting
India has successfully launched an Israeli spy satellite into orbit, officials at the Sriharikota space station in southern India say.

The Israeli press is reporting that the satellite will improve Israel's ability to monitor Iran's military activities.

Indian officials that given these sensitivities, the operation was secret and carried out under tight security.

The Tecsar satellite - sometimes referred to as the Polaris - was put into space on Monday morning.

'Sinister tie-up'

Tecsar is said to have enhanced footage technology, which allows it to transmit images regardless of daytime and weather conditions.

It is considered to be one of the most advanced spy satellites that India has put into orbit to date.

India is eager to compete in the world space technology market

Correspondents say the launch was the second commercial mission on behalf of another country that has been carried out by the Indian Space Research Organisation.

"It was a grand success," an unnamed official told the AFP news agency from the southern state of Andhra Pradesh.

Israeli newspapers reported that both Israeli and Indian space engineers were at the launch, and that 80 minutes afterwards, the Israel Aerospace Industries' (IAI) ground station began receiving Tecsar's first signals.

The 300kg (650-pound) satellite is reported to be Israel's most advanced space craft, and equipped with a camera that can take pictures in almost any weather conditions.

Israel reportedly took the decision to launch the satellite from India three years ago, and asked for Delhi's help because it lacks a vehicle capable of boosting the satellite into a polar orbit.

"The kind of low-earth polar orbit they are putting the satellite into, it is meant to give Israel the capability to keep an eye on the Iranian nuclear programme," an unnamed defence analyst told the AFP news agency.

"This is bound to be seen in the Islamic world as a sinister tie-up between Israel and India," he said
.

Experts also say that the launch is an "important milestone" in the commercialisation of India's 45-year-old space programme, which put an Italian satellite in orbit in April last year for a fee of $11m.

Correspondents say that India is eager to compete against the US, Russia, China, the Ukraine and the European Space Agency in providing commercial satellite launch services, a market worth about $2.5bn a year.

India started its space programme in 1963, and has since designed, built and launched its own satellites into space.


The above from 'Brit Bolloc** Corp'. I wonder who that Unamed Defense Analyst is and why he wants to remain unnamed. That sounds to me like a warning in the guise of News analysis.

komal
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JPOST reporting Iranian pressure on India

Postby komal » 22 Jan 2008 05:21

The Jerusalem Post [headline is misleading]


The successful launch on Monday of an advanced Israeli satellite was delayed in recent months by Iranian sabotage, The Jerusalem Post has learned from Western sources.

...
According to assessments recently received, Iran learned of the TecSar's planned deployment from the media and has since applied heavy pressure through Indian opposition parties - particularly the Muslim and Communist political factions - to prevent the launch.



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1200572511053&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

And then there is this



The successful launch of Israeli spy satellite Polaris by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on Monday came under sharp attack from the Left which has sought an explanation from the government on the scope of this space cooperation.


...
"We have been cautioning the UPA government on deepening military ties with Israel. This sends a wrong message to the Palestinian people that India has abandoned their cause. We will seek an explanation from the government on this new space cooperation," said Communist Party of India national secretary D. Raja, an Indian English daily reported here.

Meanwhile, stating that it is not against friendship with any foreign country, Samajwadi Party Rajya Sabha MP Shahid Siddiqui said they are appalled at this close relationship between India and Israel, which is still occupying large tracts of Palestinian land thereby denying millions of people their basic human right of having a nation of their own.



http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0801211624233300.htm

If this is the best the Iranians can do, Israel has little to worry about.

Any chance that the satellite also keeps tabs on what's going with the Chinese?

NRao
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Postby NRao » 22 Jan 2008 06:02

Perhaps we should use the sat to keep tabs within India before India uses resources outside her borders?

JE Menon
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Postby JE Menon » 22 Jan 2008 11:43

>>If this is the best the Iranians can do, Israel has little to worry about.

No. This is not the best they can do. But while they think about the best they can do, and whether they should do it, perhaps they should also consider whether this is the best we can do.

This is not about "the Iranians". It is about a particular regime, with a particular compulsion. That is fine. It has every right to have any policy it likes vis a vis its immediate and distant neighbours. Just as we do.

For any Iranian regime, or Indian government, to even hint that they will engage locally in a disruptive fashion in each other's territory would be very foolish indeed. Tehran should know that, just as our co-operation with them is not directed at Israel, our co-operation with Israel is not directed at them. So far the declarations from all sides does not suggest cause for concern.

Lobbying with the political parties is par for the course. As our ability to influence developments in the West Asian neighbourhood increases, such lobbying will increase. Hopefully a lot of Indians will make money from hundreds of such lobbying efforts. This is just the beginning. Our objective should be to ensure that no group exercises power that is disproportionate, so the net result would be - for the most part - what we would have done in our interest anyways. Over the long term, the blips will even out. I just hope the commies and groups who were engaged got enough money from Tehran for the noise they made. Every dollar that comes into India or Indian hands enhances our power, one way or another.

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Postby Prasenjit Medhi » 22 Jan 2008 11:56

My congratulations to ISRO and Indian scientists for launching the new SAR satellite. This is another landmark in the close cooperation between India and Israel which is one of India's biggest defence suppliers along with Russia and the United States.

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Postby Dilbu » 22 Jan 2008 14:32

I just hope the commies and groups who were engaged got enough money from Tehran for the noise they made. Every dollar that comes into India or Indian hands enhances our power, one way or another.


Wah.. that is true chankyan-ness JE sir. :)

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Postby Philip » 22 Jan 2008 15:12

The launch of an Israeli intel. sat. by the PSLV is an indication of how far relations between both countries have blossomed.A very welcome happening indeed.However,Israel is till beseiged by all manner of exceptionally difficult "hostiles",who have to be almost broken in will before considering a peaceful settlement with Israel.The daily salvoes of rockets into Israel is a major problem for it,as there has yet to be perfected a suitable "antidote" for the same. Assymetric warfare from the likes of Hamas and the Hiz,through these indiscriminate rocket attacks,which when they do damage,do so to innocents as a rule,must be roundly condemned.

Unfortunately,Dubya Bush spent so much of time like Don Quixote,tilting at the Iraqi oil wells,that he ignored totally the Middle East peace effort and rediscovering the region at the fag end of his presidency is trying to stoke the dying embers of peace alive.The US and the West have allowed the Middle East to burn and increased the spread of violence across the entire Islamic world,stretching in a crescent of crisis from the mountains of Afghanistan to the Meditteranean beaches of Israel and Lebanon.

It is also true that the ordinary Palestinian lives in desperate conditions and have almost lost all hope of a better future,driving many into the arms of Hamas and the militant outfits.Israel must shoulder some of the responsibility for the same.Collateral damage when taking out militant leaders and operatives do not make friends out of those innocents affected in the attacks.However,the international comunity has its role to play in persuading the other neighbours of Israel,like Syria,Jordan and Egypt, to put pressure upon the militants to desist their attacks and allow genuine peace talks to flourish,whereby a settlement can be reached through a core deal whereby a trade-off of a significant part of the land occupied by Israel since '67 is simultaneously accompanied by the cessation of hostilities between all sides.Until then,as long as Israel is bombarded daily with rockets from Gaza and Lebanon,it cannot but protect its citizens in every way possible,including the harsh conditions imposed at the moment upon the Palestinians.The US's hostility to Iran-the benefactor of the Hiz and the constant rejection of diplomacy to engage with it,has only fuelled that nation's paranoia and accelerated Iran's efforts at vastly increasing its military prowess and the future possibility of it also acquiriring nuclear weapons,even though recent evidence points to a freeze in Iran's nuclear weaponry ambitions.

The sat. launched from India is reported to have significant capability to moitor Iran and its military and nuclear capabilities and in this current state of mutual mistrust between Iran and the west,its ability to do so must be seen a as positive development.

Philip
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Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2008 10:07

A grim view of conditions in Gaza from the inside.However,violence has already been bred long before this Israeli action and if reports are to be believed,it has had an immediate effect with the cessation of rocket barrages into Israel from Gaza that first triggered off the Israeli response.The international community must broker and hammer out an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza,so that rocket attacks against Israel cease while Israel relaxes its security constraints to allow normal living conditions found in any free state prevail within the two regions that will make up a future Palestinian state.

This brutal siege of Gaza can only breed violence
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/ ... 98,00.html

Palestinian suffering has reached new depths. Peace cannot be built by reducing 1.5m people to a state of abject destitution

Karen Koning AbuZayd in Gaza City
Wednesday January 23, 2008
The Guardian


Gaza is on the threshold of becoming the first territory to be intentionally reduced to a state of abject destitution, with the knowledge, acquiescence and - some would say - encouragement of the international community. An international community that professes to uphold the inherent dignity of every human being must not allow this to happen.
Across this tiny territory, 25 miles long and no more than 6 miles wide, a deep darkness descended at 8pm on January 21, as the lights went out for each of its 1.5 million Palestinian residents. A new hallmark of Palestinian suffering had been reached.

There have been three turns of the screw on the people of Gaza, triggered in turn by the outcome of elections in January 2006, the assumption by Hamas of de facto control last June, and the Israeli decision in September to declare Gaza a "hostile territory". Each instance has prompted ever tighter restrictions on the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza. Each turn of the screw inflicts deeper indignity on ordinary Palestinians, breeding more resentment towards the outside world.

Gaza's border closures are without precedent. Palestinians are effectively incarcerated. The overwhelming majority cannot leave or enter Gaza. Without fuel and spare parts, public health conditions are declining steeply as water and sanitation services struggle to function. The electricity supply is sporadic and has been reduced further along with fuel supply in these past days. Unicef reports that the partial functioning of Gaza City's main pumping station is affecting the supply of safe water to some 600,000 Palestinians.

Medication is in short supply, and hospitals are paralysed by power failures and the shortage of fuel for generators. Hospital infrastructure and essential pieces of equipment are breaking down at an alarming rate, with limited possibility of repair or maintenance as spare parts are not available.

It is distressing to see the impact of closures on patients who need to travel outside Gaza to get medical treatment. The demand for such treatment is rising as medical standards fall inside Gaza, yet the permit regime for medical referrals has become more stringent. Many have had their treatment delayed or denied, worsening their medical conditions and causing preventable deaths.

Living standards in Gaza are at levels unacceptable to a world that promotes the elimination of poverty and the observance of human rights as core principles: 35% of Gazans live on less than two dollars a day; unemployment stands at around 50%; and 80% of Gazans receive some form of humanitarian assistance. Concrete is in such short supply that people are unable to make graves for their dead. Hospitals are handing out sheets as funeral shrouds.

As the head of a humanitarian and human development agency for Palestinian refugees, I am deeply concerned by the stark inhumanity of Gaza's closure. I am disturbed by the seeming indifference of much of the world as hundreds and thousands of Palestinians are harshly penalised for acts in which they have no part.

In discharging its mandate, Unrwa delivers a variety of services to improve living conditions and prospects for self-reliance. It is impossible to sustain our operations when the occupying power adopts an "on, off", "here today, gone tomorrow" policy towards Gaza's borders. To take one example, this week we were on the verge of suspending our food distribution programme. The reason was seemingly mundane: plastic bags. Israel blocked entry into Gaza of the plastic bags in which we package our food rations.

In today's Gaza how can we foster a spirit of moderation and compromise among Palestinians, or cultivate a belief in the peaceful resolution of disputes? There are already indications that the severity of the closure is playing into the hands of those who have no desire for peace. We ignore this risk at our peril.

What we should be doing now is nurturing moderation and empowering those who believe that Gaza's rightful future lies in peaceful co-existence with its neighbours. We welcome the new efforts to resuscitate the peace process, revive the Palestinian economy and build institutions. These pillars, on which a solution will be built, are the very ones being eroded.

Yesterday, the people of Gaza received a temporary reprieve when the occupying power allowed fuel and other supplies to enter: 2.2m litres of fuel per week for the Gaza power plant and 0.5m litres a week for industrial usage, hospitals and clinics. We have been informed that the crossings into Gaza will be partially open, allowing Unrwa and other organisations to bring in about 50 trucks a day. No one knows how long the reprieve will last as the resumption of Qassam rocket fire, which we ourselves strongly condemn, will lead to further closures.

The people of Gaza have been spared from reaching new depths of anguish - but only for the moment.

There has never been a more urgent need for the international community to act to restore normality in Gaza. Hungry, unhealthy, angry communities do not make good partners for peace.


· Karen Koning AbuZayd is commissioner general for Unrwa, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East www.un.org/unrwa


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