Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22036
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 06 Jul 2017 10:22

The same boy Moshe, the day his parents were killed by a Pakistani jihadi and today

Image

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6989
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 06 Jul 2017 10:40

I think Rahul was referring to the title at 1971. I just put Lt. Gen because I saw it somewhere, maybe BRF itself. Turns out we were both right.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1592
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 06 Jul 2017 11:01

Rahul M wrote: also, a few may be aware that Gen JFRJ was also a BRFite. :wink:


:shock: WOW. Could you please let me know the Poster ID. I would love to read up his posts.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5805
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Vikas » 06 Jul 2017 14:19

What was Indian reasoning of not allowing Israel to bomb Kahutha via Indian AF bases ?
Were we again playing generous big brother knowing that once Pakis acquire nukes, Pakis were safe for forseeable time.

PS: Is this story really true or just one of those myths like India being offered UNSC membership and 50% of NASA is made up of Indians.

Varoon Shekhar
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 06 Jul 2017 16:38

No foreign media entity has carried the story of Modi meeting the orphan of the Mumbai terror attack. Pretty newsworthy item! Anyone care to speculate why?

komal
BRFite
Posts: 410
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 14:47

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby komal » 06 Jul 2017 16:46

Vikas wrote:What was Indian reasoning of not allowing Israel to bomb Kahutha via Indian AF bases ?
Were we again playing generous big brother knowing that once Pakis acquire nukes, Pakis were safe for forseeable time.

PS: Is this story really true or just one of those myths like India being offered UNSC membership and 50% of NASA is made up of Indians.


Not sure about Kahuta, but India was indeed offered UNSC membership in the 1950s by the Western powers. Nehru rejected the offer as he viewed the offer as offending the PRC (I kid you not).

Chandragupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3469
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 15:26
Location: Kingdom of My Fair Lady

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Chandragupta » 06 Jul 2017 17:49

And that traitor is celebrated as a visionary leader and chacha.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6989
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 06 Jul 2017 18:15

http://www.ucanews.com/news/modis-visit ... -era/79690

In the spirit of freedom of expression, from the most trusted "Independent" Catholic news source in Asia:
________________

...since 1992, the two countries have cultivated close ties, particularly in the areas of technology and defense.

Modi is making his "historic" visit at a time "when people are thinking of boycotting Israel as it is not willing to come to the discussion table with Palestine for peace negotiations," Samuel Jaykumar of the National Council of Churches in India (NCCI) told ucanews.com.

"What happened to our commitment to Palestinians?" Jayakumar questioned. "Our prime minister should also have visited Palestine," he added.

The NCCI regularly consults with Palestinian Christians and its officials have visited Palestine in the past to study their problems.

Meanwhile, writing in a comment piece, political scientist Kamal Mitra Chenoy described Modi's visit to Israel as continuing the pattern of marginalizing minorities that he and his pro-Hindu BJP party follows back home.

In reference to Israel's history as a Zionist state and its violence against Palestinians, Chenoy asked, "Why is Prime Minister Narendra Modi visiting this brutal, criminal and imperialist country?"

"This is not foreign policy, but a continuation of the communal marginalization of minorities. As an Indian citizen I am aghast. As a secular Jew, I am deeply ashamed," Chenoy wrote.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 06 Jul 2017 20:07

Guys just had a thought, Israelis didn't spare nazis, black september terrorists and anyone who harmed their country or citizens. But during 26/11, the terrorists at nariman point specifically targeted jews, but Israel didn't take any action, what could be the reason.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 06 Jul 2017 21:03

JE Menon wrote:I think Rahul was referring to the title at 1971. I just put Lt. Gen because I saw it somewhere, maybe BRF itself. Turns out we were both right.



Minor quibble. Officers are referred by their rank when they retire. So I was told.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 06 Jul 2017 21:07

Varoon Shekhar wrote:No foreign media entity has carried the story of Modi meeting the orphan of the Mumbai terror attack. Pretty newsworthy item! Anyone care to speculate why?



There is rivalry in Jewish circles between traditional Western based Soros/Rothschild organizations and Chabad House. Its a continuation of US vs. Russia spat.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 06 Jul 2017 21:09

Karthik S wrote:Guys just had a thought, Israelis didn't spare nazis, black september terrorists and anyone who harmed their country or citizens. But during 26/11, the terrorists at nariman point specifically targeted jews, but Israel didn't take any action, what could be the reason.



Again I want to ask was Chabad House target offered by ISI or David Headley?

Its crucial question.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 06 Jul 2017 21:18

ramana wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Guys just had a thought, Israelis didn't spare nazis, black september terrorists and anyone who harmed their country or citizens. But during 26/11, the terrorists at nariman point specifically targeted jews, but Israel didn't take any action, what could be the reason.



Again I want to ask was Chabad House target offered by ISI or David Headley?

Its crucial question.


Am sure Mossad would know the answer to this question. May be that's why they didn't do Operation Wrath of God on the paki handlers who ordered the terrorists to gun down hostages.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9207
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 06 Jul 2017 21:19

Image

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1229
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Vips » 06 Jul 2017 22:59

Chandragupta wrote:And that traitor is celebrated as a visionary leader and chacha.

Do not want to be OT here , but also has to bring to light on how successful the Congi/Commie cabal has been in making sure there is no information in public domain on the adulterous conduct of Bandit Nehru with lady Mountbatten (Honeytrap to get congi insights on proposed partition and other devious brishit moves against India)

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4901
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 06 Jul 2017 23:22

by Vikas
What was Indian reasoning of not allowing Israel to bomb Kahutha via Indian AF bases ?
Were we again playing generous big brother knowing that once Pakis acquire nukes, Pakis were safe for forseeable time.

PS: Is this story really true or just one of those myths like India being offered UNSC membership and 50% of NASA is made up of Indians.



When Saddam Hussein started a nuclear power plant., Israeli watched it and Israeli Air Force regularly practiced to destroy it. They destroyed the Iraqi nuclear sites before it went critical in 1981. The next threat was Iran and/or Pakistan. Pakistan was outside of their reach at that time. Pakistan started building around 1975 and went the Uranium way, the plant became critical in 1981. Israeli in 1984/1985 either offered Indira or Rajiv to destroy the Kahuta if are given refueling facilities at Jamnagar Air Base. Congress led government in Center decided against it! It is a true story! Congoons either chickened out or the big powers (USSR) advised against it! USA under Ronald Reagan at that time was providing $3 billion aid to Israel.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3247
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 06 Jul 2017 23:53

No defence deals? Seems rather strange....

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6989
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 07 Jul 2017 00:12

The snivelling sh1ts at the BBC are being sarcastic about the beach event where Netanyahu and Modi waded into the water... joking about "steaming trousers" and so on...

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Jul 2017 00:29

ramana wrote:
JE Menon wrote:I think Rahul was referring to the title at 1971. I just put Lt. Gen because I saw it somewhere, maybe BRF itself. Turns out we were both right.



Minor quibble. Officers are referred by their rank when they retire. So I was told.


Correct. Some people add the world Retd in written communication but that is wrong. anither thing - when you sign an official or a Demi official letter also known as DO you write sign your name and the rank is below that.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Jul 2017 00:35

ramana wrote:RahulM, Where did you get your info?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._F._R._Jacob

Says he retired as Lt. Gen.

Site has a nice picture of Lt Gen Jacob(R) presenting his books to PM Narendra Modi.


Rahul means that he was Maj Gen when he got the surrender.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Jul 2017 00:36

Modiji cha Gaye. Now get a discount on phalxons and order more. Jews and gujjus are the same in bargaining !

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 07 Jul 2017 00:38

JE Menon wrote:This is the first true act of unabashed engagement in the modern era by two of the oldest non-proselytizing faith systems in the world, through their elected leaders. In my opinion, the importance of this visit cannot be overstated - in terms of its future implications. India is in many many ways much more advantaged than Israel is, though the latter is both extremely powerful and extremely influential. You only realise it's vulnerabilities as a state when you actually visit the country. It is absolutely tiny. And there is a population of about 8 million hanging on there, by the skin of their teeth literally. When you hear about the awesome military capability, etc... you might say "what the hell is this guy going on about".

Like I said, a visit there will sort that out. When you are in Tel Aviv, after a couple of days shunting about the country, and then sit on the beach and recall that just across the sea is Egypt and Turkey and look back and note that Iran and Saudi Arabia are on the other side, you will get a sense of the ground reality. These are its neighbours and they (despite their own differences) will be more than happy to see the Jewish people disappear from the planet - and of course, not much farther afield is our own deranged neighbour Pakistan, whose mouthy mullahs have threatened Israel on several occasions.

If even three of these countries got together and one day decided screw it, let's go for broke, and threw everything they had at Israel - it's all over. There just isn't enough land. Once the country is weakened, and disoriented, it won't be too difficult for a few hundred thousand ISIS types to literally drive in and start their horror. Once you realise this, and imagine we Hindus were in that situation, in that small territory with nowhere literally to go to, you'll feel their paranoia. And this is not the first time they are going through this. Go into Yad Vashem and I challenge anyone with half a heart to come out without tears in your eyes. I guarantee you your hairs will stand on end, room after room of horror described, bits and pieces of families preserved... a terrible sight to behold, a trauma frozen in time and mind. And you can well imagine, then, what the people of kingdom after kingdom in India had to go through for centuries, albeit on a less industrial scale.

If there is any people that can truly understand Israel's proclamation of "Never Again" in reference to their genocide, it is us - the Hindus of India, and non-Hindus among us who have recognised and internalised this reality.


+ 108. You have captured the essence - oldest non proselytising faiths.

Ardeshir
BRFite
Posts: 831
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 03:10
Location: Londonistan/Nukkad

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Ardeshir » 07 Jul 2017 03:35

JE Menon wrote:The snivelling sh1ts at the BBC are being sarcastic about the beach event where Netanyahu and Modi waded into the water... joking about "steaming trousers" and so on...

I can't wait for the day we stick to them. I only wish desi civilisational memories were as long as cheeni civilisational memories.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6118
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 07 Jul 2017 03:35

Vikas wrote:What was Indian reasoning of not allowing Israel to bomb Kahutha via Indian AF bases
PS: Is this story really true or just one of those myths like India being offered UNSC membership and 50% of NASA is made up of Indians.

The story (about bombing Paki reactor) is not exactly a secret now. There are scores of reputable sources.. in fact direct and detailed account by people like Moshe Dayan etc).

Though people do not advertise it much but It is also well known that Israel helped India with weapons in 1965. (India helped Israel in 1967 giving spare parts for its Ouragan and Mystere fighter planes)

Even as recent as Kargil war in 1999 - Israel played a key role in helping India ..with its supply of Searcher-1 drones. These enabled India to detect, and destroy by air, Pakistani troops entrenched in mountain fastnesses.

Among nuclear physicists there was lot of close cooperation (personal contacts etc) between Israel and Indian scientists... (Many well known name in physics in US are jewish )
****
One link Added later:How Morarji Desai helped Pakistan become a nuclear state
***
This sad Indian story began just before Indira Gandhi lost the 1977 polls to the Janata Party, when a RAW agent was given the task of finding out if Kahuta was the place where Pakistan's nuclear bomb was being developed, as reports suggested. The skilful agent sent a contact to a hair-cutting saloon next to the Kahuta facility. He picked up some hair samples from the place which the Kahuta scientists used to frequent. The scientific testing of the samples revealed the presence of high radiation and bomb-grade uranium, thus confirming the RAW’s worst fears. Next, the agent found a mole in the Kahuta plant who was willing to obtain a blueprint of the Pakistani nuclear project in exchange for a bribe.

The RAW rule book, since the time Indira Gandhi floated it, stipulated that any underhand money to be given by the RAW in a foreign currency was to have the consent of the prime minister as it involved foreign exchange regulations.

Accordingly, when Suntook went to Desai for permission, he refused it on the plea that it was wrong to meddle in the internal affairs of a neighbouring state. Reportedly, Suntook, a Gujarati speaking Parsi, tried to explain to Desai the importance of the operation purely in terms of national security. But Desai remained unmoved.

Around the same time and on the same plea, Desai also foiled the plan of Israel to destroy the Kahuta facility in an air attack when in a secret meeting with the one-eyed Israeli foreign minister Moshe Dayan in Mumbai, he refused to provide refuelling facility to the attacking plane in India which was the only thing Dayan demanded. Both the episodes are well documented in intelligence records.

An icon of Gandhism in politics, Desai should go down as one of India’s more acceptable prime ministers for his emphasis on transparency in public life and his innovative methods of running the economy and bringing down inflation. Desai’s good governance thoughts were obviously rooted in Gandhiji’s lofty and appreciable ideals like village self-sufficiency and development, trusteeship, cleanliness and minimum exploitation of national resources.

But his severe lapse on national security also had its roots in Gandhian beliefs which teach truthfulness even against an enemy in the name of complete non-violence. ..
<snip>

srinebula
BRFite
Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Oct 2016 13:36

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby srinebula » 07 Jul 2017 04:19

^^^^^^^^^
In India, this incident is never mentioned in MSM, and very few know it;
Pakis seem to be well informed about this incident.
Two days back I watched a Paki news video about Modi's Israel trip. One of the commentators mentioned about Israeli plans to bomb their nuclear facilities. Of course, he changed how it ended; he claimed Pakistanis thwarted this plan by threatening, and scaring India.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Jul 2017 04:40

At same time Perkovich chides Morarji for authorizing the weaponing of Pok I test article. This was later authorized for mfg by Rajiv Gandhi and tested in POKII.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6118
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 07 Jul 2017 05:00

srinebula wrote:^^^^^^^^^
...Two days back I watched a Paki news video about Modi's Israel trip. One of the commentators mentioned about Israeli plans to bomb their nuclear facilities. Of course, he changed how it ended; he claimed Pakistanis thwarted this plan by threatening, and scaring India.

As said before Desaiji was honored with the highest honor (Nishan-e-Pakistan) for this (Morarjee's cutting down RAW's resources and reducing its budget was viewed favorably by the Pakistanis).

chandrabhan
BRFite
Posts: 190
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 10:59

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby chandrabhan » 07 Jul 2017 08:49

Ramana Sir,
I can say with lot of information 2 things which one of these BJP duffers have not disclosed or not aware..

1. Diplomatic relations with Israel in 1991-92 were opened on insistence of Balasaheb Deoras by PVN
2. This was a Quid pro quo for supporting PVN's minority govt on economic policies and also in parliament

This was mentioned by Prafful Bidwai in his article in 1992 as well. I had the chance to a ask ABV at a family function he attended in 1996 & he smiled.Upon insistence he said something like, "... there is right tome to disclose few things..and yes there is truth in this information"

So i am dumbfounded at the ignorance of BJP leaders who don't consult or discuss with Advaniji anymore.. Boldly should claim the credit or face brickbats of this opening with israel.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5805
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Vikas » 07 Jul 2017 11:23

One thing we are missing from Israeli POV is that with India on board, Israel now has backing of 2 of the most important poles of a future world. Once the Oil runs dry and the world goes back to its original state where Arabs were dirt poor, This whole engagement would start making more sense.
In a mismatched war, Israel can be run over in a matter of few hours since it is so tiny. Good to know that if $hit hits fan and marauding hordes of ISIS types salivating at potential sex slave Jew Women and kids, There is one nation which would offer them protection and place to rest. Europe and Asia can not be trusted when it comes to Israel.
Yazidis discovered it that not having any second line defender or place to go at their own peril.

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2017
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby RCase » 07 Jul 2017 12:37

Most of the media coverage was about how India can gain from technologies from Israel. While the trip was wonderful for optics and people from both countries getting a better appreciation of each other, I am trying to figure out what are the things that Israel can get/ buy/ benefit from India. The following are the benefits that I am able to fathom:

1. Diplomatic win - de-hyphenation, lesser likelihood of anti vote, current govt. will not pander to psuedo-sickulars.
2. Satellite launch
3. Reach to Arab/ Muslim world and African markets via 'Make in India'
4. Textiles/Fashion

A Deshmukh
BRFite
Posts: 268
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 14:24

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby A Deshmukh » 07 Jul 2017 13:39

5. Scalable industrial base for their hi-tech inventions.
6. large market

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10038
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby arun » 07 Jul 2017 14:05

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Citizen of the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, one Kunwar Khuldune Shahid, writing in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on the reaction of the Islamic Republic’s media to our Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Israel.

Apparently our PM Narendra Modi’s visit to Israel has accentuated talk of of “Yahood-o-Hanood ki Saazish” :wink: in the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

As India and Israel Embrace, Talk About a 'Zionist-Hindu' Conspiracy Is Spiking in Pakistan

Even though conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism are ubiquitous in Pakistan, Narendra Modi's visit to Israel has led them to alarming new heights

Kunwar Khuldune Shahid |  Jul 06, 2017 12:18 PM

The three most popular articles on Dawn, Pakistan’s most popular English newspaper, this Wednesday, related to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Israel visit. That level of interest, and its frequently conspiracist turn, isn’t surprising for anyone familiar with popular Pakistani narratives on most issues, domestic or foreign.

That a ‘Zionist-Hindu’ conspiracy is behind most of Pakistan’s problems is an idea held by many of the country’s officials, and that the jihadists targeting the state are actually Jews or Hindus, a popular conspiracy theory.

That the Indian intelligence agency’s Research & Analysis Wing is trying to enforce radical Islam through these jihadist groups, is the implied narrative of the Pakistani state, which stresses that the likes of Taliban are funded by India and linked to the Mossad as well.


The Pakistani Defense Minister issued a nuclear threat to Israel last year over a fake news report, and it isn’t uncommon for state officials to highlight proximity to Israel as a feature of its nuclear-capable ballistic missiles’ reach.

It is under this backdrop that the mainstream news channels have been busy underlining the ‘joint Indian-Israeli plot to destroy Pakistani nuclear weapons’ or Israel’s long-held desire to ‘rule the world’ with New Delhi’s help, as the actual reason behind Modi’s visit.


While some English publications covered the Israeli foreign ministry’s recent statement that there was ‘no difference between Lashkar-e-Taiba or Hamas’, the mainstream media, especially the popular Urdu publications, interpreted the Israel: India alliance against terrorism as a hostile Israeli declaration against Pakistan.


With Pakistani nationalism deemed synonymous with Islam, and perpetuated as such in school curricula, the Modi-Netanyahu meeting was commonly characterized as a ‘declaration of war against Islam’ in the Pakistani media and among mainstream opinion makers as well.


Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Army Chief Gen. Raheel Sharif pray near Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Sun Weidong inaugurating a new trade route between Pakistan and China. Nov. 13, 2016

While the conspiracy theorists are interpreting the meetup as the formal Indo-Israeli announcement of the ideological – and nuclear – war against Pakistan and Islam, the more realistic discussion on developments in Tel Aviv has centered around the arms deals between the two states, which of course have direct strategic implications for Pakistan.

Where the realists and conspiracists overlap is in delineating the commonalities in the Modi and Netanyahu-led governments, and the occupations of Kashmir and Palestine respectively. Underscoring the ‘troika’ of Trump, Modi and Netanyahu and their ‘anti-Muslim agendas’ is also an area in which the two camps find common ground.

Even though the Israeli Defense Force’s actions are often used to create a false equivalence between Zionism and Islamism among the progressive circles in Pakistan, the critique of state brutalities in Kashmir or Palestine is mostly based on genuine human rights concerns among the liberal opinion-makers.

Pakistan is among the 31 states that don’t recognize Israel. While the liberal sections of the population, and those representing the country overseas, would have you believe that this is owing to the occupation of West Bank and Gaza – which doesn’t explain the refusal to recognize Israel between 1948 and 1967 –popular opinion in the country is against Israel’s right to exist.

Like most Muslim countries, this sentiment is rooted in the prevailing anti-Semitism in the country, which is inherent to Islamism – an ideology which dominates Pakistani policymaking. This is why yahoodi, the Urdu word for Jew, is a common slur in the country, and yahoodi saazish (Jewish conspiracy) a ubiquitous two-word explanation for most of its ills.


The irony in Pakistan’s ideological position on Israel is that these are the only two post-colonial states founded on religious nationalism. This is what has prompted arguments in favor of Pakistan reviewing its stance on Israel being published in the local media as well.

This, however, remains a fringe opinion even in liberal circles, with support for Pakistan’s ties with Israel being deemed synonymous with ignoring the Palestinian plight – although no such sensitivity is on display for Tibetans, Turkestanis, Cypriots or Kurds, with China and Turkey among Pakistan’s closest allies.

This taboo on diplomacy with Israel, coupled with prevailing anti-Semitism and ensuing conspiracy theories, have ensured that any meetings between officials of the two states have remained behind the scenes.

In 2012, former president Pervez Musharraf said in an interview with Haaretz that ‘relations with Israel could help Pakistan’. It was Musharraf’s foreign minister Khursheed Kasuri’s meeting with his Israeli counterpart in 2005 that remains the only publicly acknowledged talks between the two states.

But while the then mulling of diplomatic ties with Israel might’ve been a corollary of Pakistan firmly being in the U.S. camp, Washington’s recent snubbing of Pakistan and the growth of its relations with New Delhi, seemed to have closed that particular window for Islamabad, which has put all its bets on Beijing.

Even so, with Pakistan militarily spearheading the Saudi ‘Islamic’ coalition aligned against Iran, Tel Aviv and Islamabad’s interests in the Middle East shouldn’t clash. But the growing Indo-Israeli defense ties, and conflation of militancy affecting the two states, could mean Pakistan upping the ante vis-à-vis Palestine, as a global vehicle for its Kashmir narrative – especially among the Arab states.

This should mean ‘Zionist-Hindu conspiracies’ skyrocketing in the near future.

Kunwar Khuldune Shahid is a Pakistan-based journalist and a Correspondent at The Diplomat. His work has been published in The Guardian, The Independent, Foreign Policy, Courrier International, New Statesman, The Telegraph , MIT Review, and Arab News among other publications. Twitter: @khuldune


From Haaretz:

As India and Israel Embrace, Talk About a 'Zionist-Hindu' Conspiracy Is Spiking in Pakistan

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10038
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby arun » 07 Jul 2017 14:25

Meanwhile our “Secular” aka Pseudosecular political parties, this time mainly of the Atheist variant, plays the usual communal politics of Mohammadden appeasement by pandering to the belief motivated hatred of Jews that a sizable number of Mohammaddens unfortunately subscribe to.

Prakash Karat of the Communist Party of India – Marxist (CPI-M) holds forth at length with cameo appearance of Manoj Jha of the RJD and a Achin Vanaik who I am not familiar with:

Modi's Israel visit extension of Hindutva ideology, betrays Palestinian cause: Prakash Karat

Karat said the visit would lead to "total identification" of the Indian government -- and through that of India -- with the Israeli occupying state.

IANS

Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 07:41

Calling Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Israel a "complete turning point", senior CPI-M leader Prakash Karat on Tuesday said it was a part of an overall Hindutva ideology which was coming into play both domestically and in terms of foreign policy.

The former Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M) General Secretary also added that Modi's visit was also an open declaration that India doesn't stand by the Palestinian cause anymore.

"What the Modi government is doing within India, this foreign policy is an extension of that," said Karat at a public meeting organised by the Palestine Solidarity Committee, stressing there was a need to oppose this direction of foreign policy as well as the strategic alliance between India and Israel "which betrays the Palestinian cause".

Calling Modi and the BJP "ideological soulmates" of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud party, Karat said that it was under the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government that then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon visited India "and now fittingly it is a BJP Prime Minister who is visiting Israel for the first time".

Modi on Tuesday embarked on a three-day visit to Israel -- the first by an Indian Prime Minister.

The visit coincides with India and Israel marking 25 years of their diplomatic relations and 50 years of occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Karat said the visit would lead to "total identification" of the Indian government -- and through that of India -- with the Israeli occupying state and would "legitimise all atrocities" and the occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel.

"This is a complete reversal from India's long-held traditional stand the centre of which was Palestinian fight for independence.

"From (Mahatma) Gandhi's time till the 1980s, India stood firm with Palestinian struggle for freedom. And today that is completely abandoned.

"This visit is an open declaration that we do not stand by the Palestinian cause anymore even though lip service is still paid by the Modi government to the creation of an independent Palestinian state," said Karat.

He added that Modi's visit was more than symbolic as it marks culmination of relationship which has been developing between Israel and India.

"We have reached a stage where there is now open strategic alliance based on military and security collaboration."

During the meeting, RJD leader Manoj Jha said that while Palestine was never a "Muslim cause" when he was growing up, but it "suddenly" seemed to have become one.

"We have lost the cause of Palestine and we have failed Palestine."

Jha said that there was a different rhetoric in media today involving "complete silencing of the Palestine like it doesn't exist".

Achin Vanaik from the Palestine Solidarity Committee said Modi's visit would legitimise the "brutality" of Israeli forces.


IANS via The News Minute:

Modi's Israel visit extension of Hindutva ideology, betrays Palestinian cause: Prakash Karat

Haresh
BRFite
Posts: 720
Joined: 30 Jun 2009 17:27

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Haresh » 07 Jul 2017 15:57


Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16451
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 07 Jul 2017 20:08

ramana wrote:RahulM, Where did you get your info?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._F._R._Jacob

Says he retired as Lt. Gen.

Site has a nice picture of Lt Gen Jacob(R) presenting his books to PM Narendra Modi.

I do not need wiki to tell me that Maj.Gen Jacob played a stellar role in bifurcating bakistan.
Lt. Gen Jacob couldn't have done so because he wasn't one at the time.

regarding his BRFite record, Jag had created his account on a request and he did use it to lurk IIRC. he did not post to my knowledge but then you cant expect a nonagenarian, even one as sharp as him to get all the ins and outs of web fora. we are obviously, proud to have been associated with him.

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2017
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby RCase » 07 Jul 2017 20:51

arun wrote:Meanwhile our “Secular” aka Pseudosecular political parties, this time mainly of the Atheist variant, plays the usual communal politics of Mohammadden appeasement by pandering to the belief motivated hatred of Jews that a sizable number of Mohammaddens unfortunately subscribe to.
...
Karat said the visit would lead to "total identification" of the Indian government -- and through that of India -- with the Israeli occupying state and would "legitimise all atrocities" and the occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel.
...
Modi's Israel visit extension of Hindutva ideology, betrays Palestinian cause: Prakash Karat

Scummunist Karat needs to take a look closer to home at his ideological patron. Replace Palestine with Tibet and Israel with China.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2172
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 07 Jul 2017 22:02

Why Israel's courting India's Prime Minister Modi
Jerusalem (CNN)Only a select few world leaders receive Israel's grand reception at Ben Gurion International Airport: people like the President of the United States, and the Pope. So it did not go unnoticed that India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi received the same red carpet treatment.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet were on the tarmac to greet Modi as he exited his Air India Boeing 747 in Tel Aviv.

Modi returned the gesture in trademark style.

"Netanyahu received Prime Minister Modi's hugging diplomacy," says Eliaz Dandeker, a historian and researcher of the Jewish-Indian community. "It was warm, like a couple of old friends that came together after so many years."
:
:
:

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Jul 2017 23:21

Gen V.P. Malik has written an article on the Israeli support to India over the years.

If anyone finds it please post. Its very informative.

komal
BRFite
Posts: 410
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 14:47

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby komal » 08 Jul 2017 02:19

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/my-journey-to-israel-4735753/

Interesting mention that Madame provided support to Israel during June 1967 war.

This was reciprocated by Nehru’s daughter, Indira Gandhi, who sent spares for Israeli Mystere and Ouragon aircraft and AMX-13 tanks in 1967.

Muns
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

Postby Muns » 08 Jul 2017 11:13

A relaxed view of the top places visited by Modi on the Israel tour :

A Quick Recap To The Israel Visit of Modi The Traveller

http://www.india-aware.com/quick-recap-israel-visit-modi-traveller/

Tel Aviv Convention Centre


Tel Aviv Convention Centre is located on Rokach Boulevard in northern Tel Aviv, Israel. It is the most advanced site for conventions and exhibitions in Israel, being the largest in the country. PM Modi addressed 5,000 members of Indian community in Israel at the convention centre, stressing on the need to build stronger relations with the people by providing them OCI cards and, in a way, inviting them to India for a visit.

Danziger Flower Farm


The Danziger Flower Farm is situated in central Israel in Moshav Mishmar Hashiva which is about 56 kms away from Jerusalem. The farm is the leading floriculture company in Israel. It has 80,000 sq. metres of state-of-the-art greenhouses for breeding and testing new variety of flowers. A new fast growing Israeli Chrysanthemum flower has been named after PM Modi and will now be called ‘MODI’. Now that’s wow!


Yad Vashem Museum


Yad Vashem Museum is the World Holocaust Remembrance Centre built as a memorial to the victims of the holocaust, who lost their lives while fighting against the Nazi oppression. The museum consists of a Hall of Names which contains the names of over 3 million holocaust victims, as submitted by their families and relatives. PM Modi paid homage to all those who suffered the horrors of the Nazi rule while being accompanied by Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu.



Also a decent summary :

Israel, India Look Past Defense to Broaden Commercial Ties: ‘Match made in heaven,’ says Netanyahu

http://www.india-aware.com/israel-india-look-past-defense-broaden-commercial-ties-match-made-heaven-says-netanyahu


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests